tommyt
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
@Cute Panda wrote:
My family moved in to Thomas Clarke Tower in 1970. I know a lot of people may not beleive this, but for many of the early residents moving to Ballymun was like going to heaven in the early days. People had tremedous pride and felt so positive about living there. We lived there for a few years and then to a larger flat on Shangan Avenue.
I can tell you for a fact why Ballymun “failed”:
1) Refugee Camp Mentality – Like Tallaght and Neilstown about a decade later, working class Dubliners were considered vermin by the rural ethos of this Irish state. Working class Dubliner were to be removed from the vista of the gaelic aspirations of the Irish state filled with its rural TDs and Civil Servants who created “housing schemes” and more or less ethnically cleansed traditional Dublin working class neighbourhoods in the city centre and deported them en-masse to Ballymun. Once there they were left to rot and neglected.
If you were from Ballymun Flats and had an issue pretaining to anything you needed repaired in the Flats chances are you encoutered some roasary bead mauling biddy from Mayo in the Corpo on Jervis Street who treated you as if you were honoured to have her even look sneeingly at you.
2) Abandondment – Once in Ballymun we were expected to fend for ourselves. While the Government ploughed vast sums into GAA clubs and Farmers Co-ops from Donegal to Kerry, the same did not apply to people in Ballymun (or any part of urban Ireland for that matter). We did not fit the image of the barefoot maidens dancing at the crossroads and represented a uncomfortable reminder that Ireland was hardly the mono-cultural farming fantasyland the guardians of the state whished it to be.
3) Decay – If you are not going to develop a community then you are hardly going to fix it up when it starts falling apart. (I mean this in every sense, social and economic)
4) Bad timing. Ballymun gets built…arab oil crises leading to massive ecnomic downturn…heroin shows up. One mess after the next.
5) The Oirish problem with buildings over 4 stories. “Ye don’t see them yokes in Mayo, so deas must be bad news!” – this still prevails. But not as bad as it used to be.
6) Tallaght and Neilstown – The community in Ballymun collasped when most of them moved enmasse to West Dublin in the early to mid 1980’s in most cases to much worse circumstances. Even they believe that a coal fire in a freezing house in the middle of nowhere was better than 24×7 free hot water and central heating in Ballymun Flat for no other reason that “it’s a house”.
7) No jobs in Ballymun and terrible public transport led to a situation were the ones who were left isolated and unable to get back into life. Middle class orgaisations such as the Labour Party and SIPTU never expressed an interest in the people of Ballymun. The Trade Unions members were too busy having the name of their street changed from Ballymun Ave to “Glasnevin Ave”. This is why people in Ballymun have always rejected the so called working class lobbies such as the Trade Unions and the Labour Party as we saw them for the phonies they were.
Now having said all this, Ireland is a much better country now and is a much more mature society. Ballymun is for all it faults has a place of fantastic community spirit which unless you have come face to face with it – is hard for an outsider to believe. It really is something eles how people in Ballymun look after each other. The hatred of working class Dubliners is no longer an agenda of the Irish Government and civil service – and the Ballymun Regeneration Project proves this.
To sum up, I think that Ballymun “failed” in an Irish social sense because it was perhaps too modern for the Dev’s Holy Catholic Rural Ireland and it created a negative reaction to the Irish, who think people can only live in bungalows on an acre of land. I think if Ballymun was built today, it would have got a lot more TLC from Irish Government and society as a whole. A freind of mine who stills lives there once summed it up beautifully. “If we want to make the rest of Ireland respect and cherish Ballymun then paint the flats white and tatch the roof of the towers”.
Ireland was not ready for the Ballymun Flats when they were first built.
BEST POST EVER !. CP-can you provide some lessons on candid social commentary to some of the more
narratively challenged posters on this site 🙂There’s yer thesis there J83. Are you just fishing for info or have you definitely chosen this as your topic?. What are you studying?. If this is an undergrad thesis you are biting off way more than you can chew with such a loaded term as failed.
FWIW there is a load of journal articles out there concerning Ballymun’s genesis and history. There is also a very fine book called Estates on the Edge in Bolton St. library that would be very useful. It looks at the problems of poorly designed housing schemes on urban peripheries across Europe, not just Ballymun
fergalr wrote:Do you not think the area will need to be re-gentryfied as well?From the top of O’Connell St. there is a pointless vacuum of city until you get to Phibsboro.
I’d say, given proper investment and it’s own HARP (Historic Area Regeneration Programme-remember those??) the area could take on a whole new lease of life, would give purpose to the top of O’Connell St (it leads to nowhere at present) and would link Phibsboro properly to the city centre.I for one am sick of this kind of vacuos petit bourgeois crap being written about the North inner city. Please be more objective in your comments. I don’t come up to Howth denigrating your neighbourhood so please don’t do it to mine.people relate to urban character in different ways relative to their background,life experiences and personal tastes… Down with your Belvo bred snobbery!
There’s an extensive area of decking near the subway station in Flushing, NYC.Can’t remember what context it’s set in but I was definitely there a few years ago,seen it feature in an episode of seinfeld too…I’ll go try google an image…. nah, couldn’t find one..anyone else know where I’m talking about?
It’s actually surprisingly quiet- even half way down Foster Pl. It is well worth a wander down, a little gem.One of the gaffs looks like it might be a private residence too! Have often wondered why BOI keep so many banking functions in operation from their entrance onto the place( I have picked up deliveries round there on numerous occasions), The Temple Bar plan alluded to above involved opening the enormous wooden door on the Westmoreland St. facade of the BOI and doing away with the bank’s rear offices and delivery yard as far as I can recall..
Interesting article from a couple of viewpoints IMHO.
First, I doubt if anyone else other than o’callaghan would have the clout to get an article published in the IT property supplement.Some threats made to pull advertising/friends in high places type carry-on? (AFAIK a significant amount of the IT’s revenue is derived from the prop. supplement)Secondly with regards to Dublin and any kind of objective criticism of built environment developments FMcD is very much a busted flush.His feet are too cosy under the table with the movers and shakers in the big smoke.When’s the last time he told it like it is on some of the less than brilliant projects under construction in the capital? Seems to me Cork is where he can vent his spleen cuz he is not beholden to any sectoral intersests down there.
Would have passed there regularly before and during the cleaning process, whilst the detailing was not perfect I think they got slightly more damaged.Could be that the cleaning just accentuated their deteriorating state though I s’pose…
@Graham Hickey wrote:
Yes, it’s an elegant building – simple and unpretentious. Flat porticos always do it for me 🙂
Kildare Street is now displaying a fine array of sparkling clean stones from around Ireland and Britain.
There’s such interest in this streetscape, and unusually not just from the design of the buildings but also the materials used – from Georgian red brick to Victorian red brick to a wide variety of limestones, sandstone and granite – loads of colour and texture.
The cleaning of the Alliance Francais building unfortunately seems to have damaged some of the cutesy detailing at the bottom of some of the pillars like the dog chasing the hare/rabbit.
Sorry if I sounded abit narky StephenC. I actually really like Dorset Street so I was sticking up for it! It does need cosmetic work done all right but its mikxture of uses is fine by me.In a way it is a transitional street between the CBD and the inner suburbs so has a lot of potential uses.It reminds me in a way of Queens Boulevard in NYC or Ladbroke Grove in West London.
Yeah Nrth Strand/Amiens St. is my route into town also and I reckon around the Fire station/Cement factpry has scope for a real “city gateway” type precinct similar to what’s planned around Heuston..
@StephenC wrote:
Its actually part of a greater scheme to improve the whole route from Drumcondra to the City Centre precisely becase Dorset Street is such a grim dump of a street
It isn’t that bad and is a damn site better than it used to be.Jaysus just cuz it doesn’t have a mochafrapucciono joint every 20 yards doesn’t make it a “dump” of a street.Sometimes pple need to watch their language on this forum and be aware they end up sounding really petty and mean minded.
This bldng was sold for 42Million big ones acouple of months back. If you have access to ireland.com I would say there is a good bit in their archive on it. AFAI remember any apartments built on site will have the highest unit cost in the country.
@crestfield wrote:
Interesting that holland should be brought up. I have been to both Amsterdam and the Hauge and found conditions for pedestrians even worse. Little distingtion is made between raodways/ cycle paths/ tramways and pedestion paths. The conduct of the cyclists I found to be similiar to those here, just there was a lot more of them and therefore more dangerous.
People often speak of Amsterdam being a good model for an urban environment. I can’t agree cause even though cars dominate Dublin at least we pedestrions have the paths to our selves (with the exception of the quays as mentioned) . As well as that, pedistrian areas are not dominated by cyclists here either.
I’m not implying that cyclists are the only ones to blame, I see reckless behavoir by pedestrians and motorists (I have never driven a car by the way) every day. Its just that cyclists appear to protray themselves like upstanding people being hindered by other road users. Instead their just as bad as the rest!
Medium sized city was the crux of my argument. Next time you are in the Netherlands visit Groningen, Eindhoven, Nijmegen or Alkmaar for example to see how an urban centre can function and accommomdate all traffic comfortably. I know all of those towns are a lot smaller than Dublin but are on a par with our provincial cities. You will find if you spend any length of time in Dutch towns your radar will attune to the different streetlife that characterises the Dutch urban experience
: : : : what does “ride the shank’s mare” mean. And Also what is the origin of this phrase. I have but 1 hour to find this information out. So PLEASE EMAIL me back with the information
: : : I dont know the origin but your phrase means to go on foot, to walk.
: : : The link below may help with the origin.: : From “A Hog on Ice” (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk: “To ride shanks’ mare (or pony) — This means to walk; to use one’s own legs, for the shank is the part of the leg below the knee. It has been a jocular expression for two hundred years or so. Possibly it arose from playful allusion to a Mr. Shank who had no other means of conveyance, but more likely it was an invention of some Scottish wit.”
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/245.html
Agree with the cyclists and ped crossing observation.However the shoe does fit on the other foot.Try cycling through any busy ped junction when the little man is red,e.g. jnctn of Abbey &lwr O’connell sts..It is a question of manners alright ,not just rules and regulations.Unfortunately a significant proportion of citizens possess neither courtesy nor common sense in their everyday urban interactions-not however, a subject worthy of discussion on a forum dedicated to built environment matters…
@crestfield wrote:
Could not agree more. I have never been hit by a car, but twice I have been hit cyclists. Thats aside from all the other times I move to avoid being hit at a pedestrion crossing thats in my favour. Cyclists appear to be a law unto themselves. Now I find my self looking both ways when crossing a one way street incase I’m hit by a fast moving cyclist. Not mention those who cycle on the path of the quays to avoid crossing a bridge, as they are on the wrong side to the direction they wish to travel in. 😡
Take it from someone who has earned their living cycling around Dublin ,without exaggeration it is a WAR for space on those mean streets! Every mode of transport from shank’s mare to the juggernaut is competing for the limited access poor transport planning has created in Dublin. I could gripe about every other mode of transport you could mention and they would be legitimate greivances but it is pointless. My suggestion-unless someone is seriously out of order- just get on with it! If you can’t handle it move to a more civilised society. My suggestion would be a medium sized Dutch city of your choice!
The North Terrace is where the more hardcore support have always congregated and at present is where Eircom League clubs(i.e.REAL Irish football afficionados) recieve their paltry allocation from the FAI.A cauldron or intimidating atmosphere is a thing of the past in the present premiership/bastool football climate. If the FAI had any cop that would be the area reserved for the real partisan fans with ultra type Italian displays.Then you might see a proper atmosphere in that stadium.Hope it does get built, any argument for football being played in Croke park is pointless.It’s totally unsuitable to holding large international fixtures.The pitch is too big and Hill16 would be deserted due to UEFA /FIFA regsI think it would be even more devoid of atmosphere than the present Landsdowne
@Paul Clerkin wrote:
Museum Proposal – Flann O’Brien
Convert the public toilets underneath the statue of Moore at Westmoreland and College Streets.
COuld b a quirky little museum, and appropriately on the only stop of the Dublin underground.
Exhibits: Pint of plain and a bike
LOL 😀 STUNNING IDEA!!!!.
Maybe one of the cubicles could be retained woth a statue of somone projectile vomitting a load of whiskey into it
😀It is a material change of use and as such requires PP. I should imagine you could get this shut down on any number of grounds…
As a Bohemians fan the possibility of trying to get a land-swap with any prospective mountjoy developers for Dalymount Park has been thrown around a bit in the past on our message board. Any valuers out there reckon dalymount would be worth more per hectare, or the same compared to the mountjoy site? I personally think if a new football ground could be built on the site it would open up the chance to create a new district centre for phibsboro if dalyer was used for a mixed use development.
Central Park plaza??? aw come on, they could come up with a better name than that.Thought the corpo had pple that vetted street/place names these days….. will probably get a gobbledeygook Irish translation n’ all.I’m sure there must be someone worthy from the locality for he street to be named after or something historically relevant
