Cycling in Irish Cities
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@Graham Hickey wrote:
Often wondered do people ever use cycle lanes to cycle in the ‘wrong’ direction, and have you found it to be safe?
Is there any rule against this?Do cyclists actually follow rules per se??? The next time I nearly get mowed down by a cyclist going through a red light or pedestrian crossing I’m simply going to push them over. Cyclists are so badly behaved that they do not deserve special treatment. Feck the cycle lanes, I’m buying a hummer.
Who said drivers aren’t antagonistic towards cyclists? 🙂
There’s bad eggs burge eye. There’d be more motorist bad eggs too were it not for the contraints put on that mode of transport.
But yes you do always encounter poor cyclists – only the other day walking through the Coombe on a pavement a cyclist lashed past causing me to stop in fear of him crashing into me. It’s not this that was irritating, but rather there as a brand spanking new wide cycle lane running alongside the kerb! AND the road was empty! :rolleyes:There is a contraflow cycle lane running from Sir John Rogersons quay to City Quay – along the south side of the Liffey in front of the new Sean O Casey bridge. I’ve been using it for maybe 2 years – it only occurred to me recently as a result of the direction of the “bicyle diagram”, that it is contraflow.
Its excellent and fast. I think that is because it is one of the only cycle lanes that isn’t half of a car lane.
@burge_eye wrote:
Do cyclists actually follow rules per se???
Could not agree more. I have never been hit by a car, but twice I have been hit cyclists. Thats aside from all the other times I move to avoid being hit at a pedestrion crossing thats in my favour. Cyclists appear to be a law unto themselves. Now I find my self looking both ways when crossing a one way street incase I’m hit by a fast moving cyclist. Not mention those who cycle on the path of the quays to avoid crossing a bridge, as they are on the wrong side to the direction they wish to travel in. 😡
@crestfield wrote:
Could not agree more. I have never been hit by a car, but twice I have been hit cyclists. Thats aside from all the other times I move to avoid being hit at a pedestrion crossing thats in my favour. Cyclists appear to be a law unto themselves. Now I find my self looking both ways when crossing a one way street incase I’m hit by a fast moving cyclist. Not mention those who cycle on the path of the quays to avoid crossing a bridge, as they are on the wrong side to the direction they wish to travel in. 😡
Take it from someone who has earned their living cycling around Dublin ,without exaggeration it is a WAR for space on those mean streets! Every mode of transport from shank’s mare to the juggernaut is competing for the limited access poor transport planning has created in Dublin. I could gripe about every other mode of transport you could mention and they would be legitimate greivances but it is pointless. My suggestion-unless someone is seriously out of order- just get on with it! If you can’t handle it move to a more civilised society. My suggestion would be a medium sized Dutch city of your choice!
tommyt- quick question. I’ve heard the phrase ‘shank’s mare’ before, but do you know where it came from?
Ta.PS Rather than move to a more civilised society, couldn’t we just create one here instead? By, say, not cycling across ped crossings when the peds have a green man? It would be a start.
: : : : what does “ride the shank’s mare” mean. And Also what is the origin of this phrase. I have but 1 hour to find this information out. So PLEASE EMAIL me back with the information
: : : I dont know the origin but your phrase means to go on foot, to walk.
: : : The link below may help with the origin.: : From “A Hog on Ice” (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk: “To ride shanks’ mare (or pony) — This means to walk; to use one’s own legs, for the shank is the part of the leg below the knee. It has been a jocular expression for two hundred years or so. Possibly it arose from playful allusion to a Mr. Shank who had no other means of conveyance, but more likely it was an invention of some Scottish wit.”
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/245.html
Agree with the cyclists and ped crossing observation.However the shoe does fit on the other foot.Try cycling through any busy ped junction when the little man is red,e.g. jnctn of Abbey &lwr O’connell sts..It is a question of manners alright ,not just rules and regulations.Unfortunately a significant proportion of citizens possess neither courtesy nor common sense in their everyday urban interactions-not however, a subject worthy of discussion on a forum dedicated to built environment matters…
@tommyt wrote:
My suggestion would be a medium sized Dutch city of your choice!
Interesting that holland should be brought up. I have been to both Amsterdam and the Hauge and found conditions for pedestrians even worse. Little distingtion is made between raodways/ cycle paths/ tramways and pedestion paths. The conduct of the cyclists I found to be similiar to those here, just there was a lot more of them and therefore more dangerous.
People often speak of Amsterdam being a good model for an urban environment. I can’t agree cause even though cars dominate Dublin at least we pedestrions have the paths to our selves (with the exception of the quays as mentioned) . As well as that, pedistrian areas are not dominated by cyclists here either.
I’m not implying that cyclists are the only ones to blame, I see reckless behavoir by pedestrians and motorists (I have never driven a car by the way) every day. Its just that cyclists appear to protray themselves like upstanding people being hindered by other road users. Instead their just as bad as the rest!
@crestfield wrote:
Its just that cyclists appear to protray themselves like upstanding people being hindered by other road users. Instead their just as bad as the rest!
Not guilty to the latter]do[/I] have a place on a board such as this, I’d have thought. Not just in posts, but as rules of thumb for citizen interaction. I don’t think you can divorce the citizen from the city.
ctesiphon.
(Fresh from nearly being knocked down by a BMW SUV and one of those stupid steroid Minis at Donnybrook church. Front and back lights, 4 reflectors and a wally band, if you must know. 😡 ):rolleyes:
No doubt if you were wearing a novelty hat with a siren and flashing LEDs they wouldn’t have seen you.
One thing that’s very noticable in Dublin is the level of Chinese people who cycle relative to the ‘natives’. I did a truly gruelling project a couple of years ago, involving standing about in the city centre for hours on end getting various opinions from cyclists. The amount of Chinese cycling was and is extraordinary – they accounted from what I experienced at the time (outside major rush hours) for about 40-50% of all cyclists!
They come from a cycling culture, and evidently think nothing about cycling around Dublin upon arriving here – by contrast Dubliners just don’t do it! It served to demonstrate for me that while yes, there are impediments for many people to taking up the bike in Dublin, there clearly is a cultural issue too given the level of Chinese cycling in exactly the circumstances. We all live in the same city after all – they’re not experiencing anything different to ourselves!
Of course one factor to take on board is that they are for the most part students, so naturally are more inclined to cycle, but even so they pull way above their weight in the cycling population. Even the other day I was watching all the cyclists pouring down from South Richmond St towards Portobello Bridge on the commute home – a considerable number were again Chinese.
Given an option between a car (including the cost of running one) and a bicycle, I am sure that a Chinese student would go for the car option!
Probably true, Richards. They are certainly abandoning the bikes in Beijing as fast as humanly possible- coming to view them as a sign of a ‘backward society’ that doesn’t tally with their new hi-tech Olympic image. I heard Richard Rogers on the telly not so long ago tell a story about being in Beijing and commenting to the mayor (?) about how great it was to see the number of bikes in the city (9 million, if Katie ‘litejazz’ Melua is to be believed 🙂 ), and the mayor misunderstood and pretty much said ‘I know, but we’re doing something about it, they’ll be gone before too long.’ RR’s point was that they are the ultimate form of sustainable city transport.
I agree, Graham, the number of Asian cyclists in the city is remarkable. However, quite a few of them are pretty bad cyclists- meandering along roads, wrong way on one way streets, wrong way in bike lanes, and few lights/reflectors. I’m guessing it’s in large part due to the fact that they come from a very different cycling culture where bikes have freer reign in towns. Hard to make these points without attracting the wrath of some right-on wet-lib, but I don’t think my eyes deceive me. I do welcome them onto the streets, as the more cyclists there are the more visible we all are, but their behaviour still frustrates me as a fellow cyclist.
@Graham Hickey wrote:
No doubt if you were wearing a novelty hat with a siren and flashing LEDs they wouldn’t have seen you.
You’re probably right. Now where did I put that receipt for Hector Grey’s?
Could not agree more. I have never been hit by a car, but twice I have been hit cyclists.
I know what you mean, but you’ve missed the real villians. I’ve only been hit by a cyclist once but I’ve been bumped into by other pedestrians over twenty times while innocently walking the streets of Dublin. They really are a law of their own: always breaking the law ignoring lights, no consideration for anyone, never looking where they are going and yet they are constantly whinging about cyclists and motorists. :rolleyes:
I walk (daily), cycle (daily), drive (only about once a week – I’m going to sell it given how little use I get out of it) and use public transport (a couple of times a week). Doing so, I think, gives a bit of a more balanced view of the city and the interactions between people using different modes. You certainly don’t develop an attitude that pedestrians/cyclists/motorists (whatever is “other” to you) are a bunch of bastards; each has a different perspective and most within each group are reasonable. There are ignorant rude people in each category believe me; if you really believe that there are more rude cyclists than pedestrians or motorists, your view is seriously skewed.
@crestfield wrote:
Interesting that holland should be brought up. I have been to both Amsterdam and the Hauge and found conditions for pedestrians even worse. Little distingtion is made between raodways/ cycle paths/ tramways and pedestion paths. The conduct of the cyclists I found to be similiar to those here, just there was a lot more of them and therefore more dangerous.
People often speak of Amsterdam being a good model for an urban environment. I can’t agree cause even though cars dominate Dublin at least we pedestrions have the paths to our selves (with the exception of the quays as mentioned) . As well as that, pedistrian areas are not dominated by cyclists here either.
I’m not implying that cyclists are the only ones to blame, I see reckless behavoir by pedestrians and motorists (I have never driven a car by the way) every day. Its just that cyclists appear to protray themselves like upstanding people being hindered by other road users. Instead their just as bad as the rest!
Medium sized city was the crux of my argument. Next time you are in the Netherlands visit Groningen, Eindhoven, Nijmegen or Alkmaar for example to see how an urban centre can function and accommomdate all traffic comfortably. I know all of those towns are a lot smaller than Dublin but are on a par with our provincial cities. You will find if you spend any length of time in Dutch towns your radar will attune to the different streetlife that characterises the Dutch urban experience
jimg There are ignorant rude people in each category believe me wrote:I agree entirly with you. I fear I may have come across wrong, I’m not saying cyclists are the worst road user. I never claimed that all cyclists as a collective group were all reckless.As I pointed out in my prevous post I dont believe cyclists are more rude then other road useres, its just that they so often paint themselves as the victums by their pursure groups, yet I never hear a mention being given to their resonsibilities. As I already stated I see reckless behavoir by pedestrians and drivers daily. The bigy pet hate I have for cars is the use of the mythical 3 second delay on traffic lights, that is abused to the point where the light is gone red for the pedestrian by the time they all cars use the delay between their light going red and the pedestrians going green.
As regards SUVs a ban should be put on them in urban areas as they are danger to other all road users (arugably even other cars) and the driver has no exuse as why such veichele is needed for city driving.
My comment about Holland was not a rebuttal to the suggestion made rather I was wonder what the opinion of those who are fans of the urban environment in Amsterdam thought (I mention it as it is so often sited as a good example of a city)
@crestfield wrote:
Interesting that holland should be brought up. I have been to both Amsterdam and the Hauge and found conditions for pedestrians even worse. Little distingtion is made between raodways/ cycle paths/ tramways and pedestion paths. The conduct of the cyclists I found to be similiar to those here, just there was a lot more of them and therefore more dangerous.
I accept that if you don’t cycle and your experience of cyclists here has been poor as you describe, the system in Dutch cities is not going to be that impressive. But the undeniable fact is that it works. Dutch cities, and particularly Amsterdam, have (in my opinion) the X factor of urban culture. I frequently seriously consider chucking Dublin in and moving to Amsterdam. There is a notable absence of the agression and antipathy you find between all road users in most other cities (though obviously German and Scandinavian cities are good in this respect too), but with all the excitement and vibrancy of a major city.
Some more pics of Amsterdam to try’n back up my point:
This street – Oude hoogstraat – is like a ‘normal’ street: – pavement on both sides & road in the centre – but for cyclists only.
In purely environmental terms, the transport energy savings must be colossal.
Damstraat
Pre Luas, One could cycle down Harcourt Street, Down Stephens Green West to the top of Grafton street and continue down on Dawson street. Since the introduction of LUAS as a cyclist I can not cycle down SG West and continue on to Grafton Street. This morning I was stopped by cycling very slowly during a pedestrial phase of traffic lights turning on the SG South (from Harcourt Street) to access the new cycle lane and continue the long way around the Green to get to my destination on Dawson street.
While I accept that I was technically in the wrong, I do feel that DCC are out of touch with cycling habbits in the city. There should a two-way cycle track around the whole of STG including that area around the LUAS stop and the top end of Grafton Street. Every morning I would see several cyclists (illegally) making their way from harcourt St thru to STG North via STG West.
Just on another issue, Do we really have the worst street surfaces in a major European city ? I am amazed how pot holes exist for years and are topped up with some tar and chippings when the hole becomes massive, telcos seem to be able to dig up streets and put back a surface which is not as good as the one they dug up. Any street which street surface is relaid is usually dug up some weeks later and the merry life cycle of the street surface starts again. Sorry for the this rant, but cycling in Dublin just seems to become more difficult every day and the authorities dont seem to care.
The whole of Stephens Green is a disaster for cyclists; it’s virtually impossible to cycle onto it, around it or off of it safely.
On reading through the posts on this thread, I’m getting a very negative impression of cycling in Dublin… which I find very hard to agree with. Over the last three years, I have clocked up a few thousand miles in and around the suburbs and city of Dublin. My various routes over that time include many of the cycle lanes that come in for such criticism in this thread, as well as numerous roads with no lanes at all. I have seen all of the dangers posed by inconsiderate motorists & jaywalking pedestrians, and have, for my part, broken the odd red light too.
Once you accept the risks to life and limb inherent in the activity, cycling remains the one and only way to get around the city of Dublin. It is the only transport mode that offers guaranteed journey times, at any time of day or night, unaffected by any external influence. While admitting that cycle-lane provision in Dublin is far from perfect, I feel that many of the posts on this thread over-state the negatives and, dare I say it, 😮 seem to be induced by the ‘siege-mentality’ of many cyclists.
Until this summer, I would probably have been as vocal as anyone in condemnding the under-provision of cycle facilities in Dublin city. However, I relocated to the Capital of Culture some months ago, via a brief stint in a provincial town. Cycling in these environments has made me see just how easy and accommodating Dublin city is to cyclists. Motorists anywhere outside Dublin actually don’t seem to know what a cyclist is, and certainly don’t expect to see one sharing their roadspace. In my time in Cork, I have yet to encounter a single dedicated cycle-lane. And if ye thought ye had potholes in Dublin, just wait til ye see the craters in Cork boy! And, for all that, I still wouldn’t be parted from my beloved bicycle!
In a nutshell – be grateful for what you have in Dublin, for the story outside the Pale is a lot less rosy!
@Devin wrote:
I accept that if you don’t cycle and your experience of cyclists here has been poor as you describe, the system in Dutch cities is not going to be that impressive. But the undeniable fact is that it works. Dutch cities, and particularly Amsterdam, have (in my opinion) the X factor of urban culture. I frequently seriously consider chucking Dublin in and moving to Amsterdam. There is a notable absence of the agression and antipathy you find between all road users in most other cities (though obviously German and Scandinavian cities are good in this respect too), but with all the excitement and vibrancy of a major city.
Some more pics of Amsterdam to try’n back up my point:
This street – Oude hoogstraat – is like a ‘normal’ street: – pavement on both sides & road in the centre – but for cyclists only.
In purely environmental terms, the transport energy savings must be colossal.
Damstraat
This must be where good cyclists go when they die 😉
If the Dutch lived in Ireland it would be the richest nation in the world,
but if the Irish lived in the Netherlands it would probably have sunk.That last quote is lifted from somewhere but I can’t remember where.
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