Mountjoy

Quote “The deal is expected to involve giving the existing ‘joy building to a developer for cash and a new prison to be built.”

This type of deal always amazes me but in this case I am particularly dumbstruck.

What are the chances of finding a developer who has a cost advantage in both restoring heritage properties and constructing institutional type buildings.

Surely two tenders should seperate this deal,

one a construction tender

Two a for sale by tender with the future use linked to the process.

That aside I don’t think holding up a granny with a needle should get you a North Circular Road address.

Huge chunks of it are protected structures, chimneys etc.

Quote “DCC should ensure that it is repaced by a high quality high-density residential scheme.”

Forgetting the listed elements of Mountjoy for a minute. Why does the minister have to link two completely different propositions together?

Constructing a prison at edge-city involves what would in essence amount to an engineered solution. High walls M60 turrets and a very basic standard of interior decor.

Constructing a hi-spec residential development in an inner suburb/outer city centre requires a high end architectural solution.

I just don’t see the link beyond the initial appraisal calculations. i.e The Mountjoy site is worth x-million to the private sector to formulate their own valuation.

A prison would cost y-million to build at an edge-city location (including a fair profit to cover risk)

Where is the correlation that requires one developer to complete both projects?

None of us know Mountjoy well I’d imagine but I suspect there are some elements of the complex that would be listed complicating the situation.

Quote “Outsourcing is the key here – it’s getting the right deal maker to make it all slot together that the tender should focus on.”

Hmmm I thought thats what the Government were paid to do.

I think you are right to highlight Treasury as they are probably about the only property company in Ireland with the breath of experience to take it on.

That would amount to anti-competitive practice
I support the move to a green-field location at edge-city or an adjoining town.

But lumping the two tenders together is ridiculous and lazy in the extreme. It would ultimately lead to the prison having a higher net cost than a two-tender process

There are specialist prison contractors in Europe who would not get involved once the situation was complicated by residential development.

The Mountjoy land is simply a non-core asset that is surplus to requirements.

Best practice with non-core assets would suggest a sale by tender that is unhindered by the requirement for a prison. :confused:

Do I detect a little cynacism D_D?

What other Country allows cost over-runs like the LUAS or price fluctuations like the Metro costings?

I don’t think it is too much to ask for two seperate tenders.

A place of detention on the scale of Mountjoy would attract tenders from far and wide.

I can think of at least ten property developers who would probably submit a tender to acquire such a prime D7 site.

I can only think of of one group who would submit both.

It is too divergent a co-incidence of wants, which would deliver little more than a bartering process.

What they need to do is get on top of the tender process and enforce contracts once signed.

Anyone know the justification for public private partnership in this case. I though the obvious plan was sell the current city center prison and use the cash to build the new one in (nearly) Meath.
Going to be hard on visitors to the prison to get there from…oh – anywhere I guess. except Thorntown

Hopefully they’ll have laptops and broadband too so we can get the latest pics of the new building 🙂

Who in their right mind would want to buy this now – sure six-column porticos have been standard since at least 1996 😀

Yes overall it’s good news about Mountjoy – surprising how few new details emerged about the city site though, all the hype surrounded the new location.
McDowell speaking on the radio about a year ago suggested that a free bus service or similar would operate between Dublin and the prison for inmates’ families etc to visit. May prove a tad controversial…

Why should we continue to waste several square miles of Dublin’s finest real estate on prisons, which only serve as dead area and hold back the regeneration of the city? The city centre prisons – Arbour Hill included – should be closed, moved out to greenfield and redeveloped as something useful.
The Prison Service have already run feeder buses in the past to Wheatfield Prison out in Clondalkin. Far too much prime space in this city is already wasted on “the poorest and most marginalised”.
I think that last posting would get a better hearing on Indymedia, Anto.

@anto wrote:

Whatever about the criminals being locked up, what about the families and kids? These people are some of the poorest and most marginalised in the country so obviuosly MacDool doesn’t give a shit about them.

Boo hoo I feel so sorry for them – my god they may have to suffer a provincial bus – imagine that, they might have to mix with commuters