theblimp
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I know it’s probably an issue surrounding site-footprint and permissable heights, but I really have a prob with the 50,000 capacity. Perhaps that’s fine for soccer internationals against lower-grade opponents (if there’s anyone left that’s lower-grade than us at the mo’) but for 6 nations rugby and autumn internationals it would appear that we’re building a stadium that’s half the size of what the public require.
No, not HH – it was a new grouping that were going to do it by way of some kind of arrangement with MAS – hence the inclusion of a MAS structure on site. Perhaps the fact that it wasn’t one of the ‘established few’ worked against them? I do know, however, that a LOT of work had been done on it. Architects were london-based and there were/are proprietary rights over the roof design which gave it significant advantages over traditional methods
Hi Kite – 2 images attached: one is of the arena itself. From what I understand it was to be ‘theatrical layout’, as in stage at one end, banked seating running back from it, with ability to clear all of ground floor to leave 100,000 sq ft+ of exhibition space. Capacity would have been up to 10,000 seated, but initial installation was proposed at 6,500.
The other image shows one of the many rough site layouts done. Main arena is on the left, the MAS arena is Munster Agricultural Society and would be a 2,000+ ‘Green Glens’-type set-up. Combining both would have allowed a lot of options for various events/exhibitions/etc.
Herr Gavin’s media announcements may have more to do with an article in the current issue of Business Cork, than a genuine upcoming announcement – I mean, how many newspaper pages over the past 18 months have carried something along the lines of ‘City Manager to announce major conference centre for Cork’.
The Business Cork article gave an image of what had been proposed for the Showgrounds site, and the fact that this is now scuppered since Mr. G. wishes to create a ‘park’ there.
Just a little interesting add-on to my earlier comments. This year’s Live at the Marquee has moved, I understand, from the Showgrounds to Howard Holding’s recently acquired ‘Ford Site’ alongside. Now my sources could be incorrect (although I doubt it) but it is ALLEGED that Mr. Gavin was one of the parties involved in convincing Aikens that such a move would be in their interests (It is BELIEVED that JG negotiated the HH site for Aikens at no cost, whereas the Showgrounds would have involved a payment), thus removing a valuable cash injection to a voluntary organisation, and aiding a commercial developer at the same time – all at a VERY interesting time in that part of the city. IF true, then perhaps my earlier comments could be viewed in a more informed light !
Bourgeoise – I really don’t want to get into a ‘post & reply’ exchange, suffice to say that in a way you’re actually supporting my proposition. Claiming (CCC) that Live at the Marquee-type events would be viable AFTER the construction of a permanent venue makes little sense. You have a choice of venues – same capacities, one is a modern permanent structure, one is a marquee with all the additional H&S this requires. Why would anyone choose the latter? As for outdoor activity – yes it would be great, but the two primary promoters in Ireland are too focused on Dublin and its environs for Cork to get a look-in.
Let’s take a look at the examples you gave
Summerfest: No outdoor concerts this year. MCD were contracted for a number of years and this contract expired last year – they decided not to renew, and to focus activities around Dublin
Lark by the Lee: Long gone
Siamsa: Likewise
Feile: Same
Heineken Green Energy: Again departed (although they were originally the first to use the marquee model at the showgrounds)
Bud Rising: Indoors small-scale in Cork, occasional outdoor activity in Dublin
Andrea Bocelli: A great success but only accomplished due to the single-mindedness and deep pockets of one Cork businessman who believed something needed to be done for Cork 2005. Unlikely to be repeated
Activity on Grand Parade: Speak to anyone connected with the delivery of the 2005 production (for example – Dennis Herlihy, Safety Officer) and you’ll be told that it’s hugely unlikely to happen again.
When was the last time we had an outdoor concert in PuC? A group tried to do it for Cork2005 but failed. If it couldn’t be done with the added attention of our year of culture it’s unlikely to happen in the near future.Fact is most outdoor activity is targeted at a Dublin audience, with some very rare variances such as Kilkenny and Galway. It’s the quick-buck mentality of the promoters and the fact that we have some of the highest ticket prices in the world should tell you all you need to know about them. I’m a passionate supporter of live entertainment and would love to see more activity in Cork – but it’s going to take something far more substantial than Mr. Montgomery at Horgan’s Quay, supported by Joe Gavin, to change the status quo.
Bourgeoise – no disrespect but take a look at my post and you’ll see that I’m questioning why a ‘Live at the Marquee’ would exist AFTER a permanent structure is in place.
Right then, on to a few other points raised. First off, I think it hugely unlikely that a municipal stadium would be built on the PuC site which would host GAA, Soccer and Rugby. Main reason here is the size of pitch required by the GAA would be far too large for Soccer and Rugby. Add in the likely size (40,000-55,000) and there’d be bugger all atmosphere for most matches – marketing triggers accepted. I just can’t see Munster Rugby (problem there anyway as Dolphin and Sunday’s Well have sporting leases at Musgrave Park) and Brian Lennox buying into it. Besides the Cork County Board gettin’ into bed with them feckin’ foreign sports !!!!
Secondly I have something of a problem with Horgan’s Quay as the site for the event centre. My understanding is that, at present, the concerned parties are trying to ‘shoe-horn’ in as large a venue as possible into a very tight space. I believe somewhere between 5,000 and 5,500 is now ‘almost’ achievable. If so this will rule out any future growth opps., leaving the city with a facility that cannot cope for many large events, and is blocking the development of a more suitable venue. Furthermore it is my understanding that someone like Clear Channel (half-owners of the Point, and tons more across Europe and the World – in short a behemoth) would be brought in on an operating lease. While it’s understandable that an investor would wish to have someone with experience running the place I would ask you to take a look at what Clear Channel do during the Summer. Answer: They move most activity outdoors to maximise their revenue. If you think for one minute that this will change once they get the keys of a Cork venue then I’d argue that you’re wrong. From May to September the venue will house very little activity. So what’s the alternative? There is one, but unfortunately I can’t go into it here … not just yet anyway.
Radioactiveman – yup, perhaps I am overly cynical, but I’ve had my eyes opened so much these past few years that I now tend to look for the story behind the story, rather than just accept ‘the story’.
I find all of this news about the Showgrounds very intriguing.
Talk of the City Manager’s wish to develop the ‘amenity’ value of the land is, to me, a smokescreen. The landfill site on the South Link (de dump) has long been earmarked as the future location for circuses (what’s plural for circus!?), funderland, concerts etc. (there is a pedestrian culvert built under the dual-carriageway from the Park’n’Ride to the site to assist this aspiration). And why would any promoter wish to run a ‘Live at the Marquee’ event once Mr. Gavin’s pet project of an event centre on Horgan’s Quay is constructed? This is all most bizarre – the GAA only need a strip of land running along the southern boundary of the current main stand to facilitate their enlargement plans.
Perhaps CCC are merely attempting to block Fleming’s desire to get their hands on the site – which is fair enough – but the question is why? What will be more interesting will be to see who REALLY benefits from this (if the CPO is successful) in the longer run
Lex,
Your teasing of an aviation-related development has me intrigued – any chance the following link provides some insight?
With reference to the ongoing ‘difficulties’ at Cork Airport, it’s interesting to note that on the main contractors webpage (rohcon), they note a completion date of October 2005. (They also mention three airbridges!)
http://www.asconrohcon.com/rohcon/rproject_details.asp?id=132§ion1=2&sub_section=10
Even though I’m living in the Ballincollig area it was only today that I passed in the Carrigrohane Road for the first time in ages (usually take the link roads). As a result of this journey I found meself nearly crashing into the Statoil on said road when I first caught sight of the extension to the Kingsley Hotel. Jaysus did they knock that one out while the planners weren’t looking or wha?
Western elevation looks lilke several, poorly designed, blocks of flats, with zero character and little sympathy/understanding of the fact that this is the first building on that side of the road marking an arrival into Cork (boundaries not withstanding). With the Lee Fields just before it, it’s likely to remain that way, so surely there was an opportunity to make a ‘statement’. Likewise with the northern elevation – larger windows but again feckin boxy. At least it beats the southern elevation which has nothing at all!!
Between this and the wonderful Victoria Cross mess, this whole area is starting to look like the land that design forgot, and it’s little reason that the locals are up in arms about further developments if this is what is being touted as contemporary architecture. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all against the anti-high-rise shower, but developers are doing themselves few favours by releasing this type of awfulness on the area.
Disgusted? – I should feckin’ coco 😡
ps – gone a little quiet in here again, hasn’t it?
Lex – in relation to the Fr. Matthew Quay development, are you sure that the Tom McCarthy involved isn’t the ‘Kingsley Hotel’ Tom McCarthy as against the ‘McCarthy Developments’ Tom McCarthy? This one is always a bit confusing, but I think the ‘Kingsley Tom’ has the Jacobs on the Mall restuarant to the back of this proposed development – which might explain part of the proposed name. However the other Tom also has some hospitality experience having owned and run Blackrock Castle for a few years
BTW – ‘Jacobs Country House Hotel’ – how come the middle 2 words there look completely out of place to me !
Hi & Seasons Greetings! :p
I noted with interest that the For Sale signs have gone up on that circa 130 acre parcel of land off the Ballincollig By-Pass. I know it was zoned leisure/recreational so has anyone got an insight into who’s now got it, and what they hope to do with it. I’d be rather peeved to learn that they plan to just sit on it for years and wait for a residential re-zoning
guys – thread is ‘Cork: Architecture & Development’ …. can we try to keep it on topic wherever possible? 🙂
With regard to Fleming Construction I’ve got to add that I also find their work stupendously lazy – with the new houses on Fota being particularly poor. Sure, it’s a sellers market at the mo’ – particularly for something based around a high-end golf development but the market changes and sadly we’ll be left with these things for a long time to come.
right, rant over, excuse me while I sod off on me Summer hols (yup, it know it’s Sep. 4th :confused: )
“Any news on the paperboy statue that was due to be reinstated?”
Probably been sold to someone in Dublin’s docklands so that it can sit alongside the ‘Cill Airne’ and the ‘Jeanie Johnson’!
Oliver Plunkett Street and Pembroke Street – those 4-5 foot poles inserted between footpath and street every few yards. Anyone know is this intended to be the ultimate treatment for these. I had been under the impression that they were only temporary until something more aesthetically pleasing replaced them, but they’ve been there for a quite a while. If they’re intended to stay then someone needs a good kick up the arse. Yes, I know they prevent parking but there are more attractive ways of doing this. On the subject of Pembroke Street, are the Imperial Hotel going to leave that makeshift timber entrance into their new cafe there forever?
Yup, seems a shame. To be fair Fleming Construction are just maximising their investment – the rot set in when all of that land was sold off many moons ago. I know there was talk of a huge annual family festival to be held on the land in front of Fota House but it needed to use the car parks that were utilised during the Irish Open years. As this is now the location of the proposed new course it looks like it will never happen. There are plans for the Wildlife Park to extend north with an exotic animal section which was to include things like Siberian Tigers. From what little I know the Wildlife park is one of the most respected in Europe so I’m sure they’ll do things properly – just seems a shame that future expansion would appear limited. This entire island could have become a major resource for the people of the region – now it’s just going to be a plaything for the wealthy few. It kind of reminds of the Michael Dougas movie from years back (name anyone??) where he hops over a wall into a golf-course and starts having a go at the players for keeping the beautiful space for themselves.
“It would great if Cork could host some of the Heineken Cup games, so it would be great to have a multi-purpose sports facility… maybe the GAA should think outside of the box for once and invite IRFU and the FAI into discussions.”
Mickeydocs – while it would indeed be a great and laudable idea I’ll ask you to cast your mind back to the vote on opening Croke Park. Which county was most opposed to it? With the current crowd running the county board I doubt if there’ll be any discussions with Munster Rugby or Cork City FC in the near future
