developments in cork

sounds good to me dude!

we can start fresh! let the party commence!!! huzzah!

cool

any official announcement on eglinton street yet

anyone got a copy of inside cork and the story on pairc ui caoimh?

I don’t see why we had to move from the LATSOC thread but anyway, here goes….

Saw the article in the Inside Cork this morning. It suggests that discussions might be ongoing with a view to transferring Cork’s GAA headquarters to a site near Blarney and opening up the existing site for redevelopment. Apparently the GAA are stuck for ways of re-developing the existing stadium due to the cramped nature of the site and some subsidence issues on the river side of the stadium. All very sketchy at the moment and of course denied by GAA themselves.

I for one would be against the movement of Pairc Ui Caoimh. It currently has the best public transport network you can get – i.e. it’s within walking distance of the City Centre. Moving it to a greenfield site at Blarney would be bad for Cork-based GAA supporters and for business in the city as a whole. The space is there to accomodate a new stadium but perhaps those involved would prefer the green field option with a handsome sum of money for the riverside site.

Thanks R-man

How about sticking to ARCHITECTURE and development, for a change, instead of planning and development on this thread? There is a difference, you know.

Planning is an essential part of the development of Cork City. It is not and should not be alien to the architecture and development of the city! These three factors affect the city and make it what it is. i don’t see the point in being smart about the content of the tread in relation to the title. Why do people have such a problem with looking at The City with such a wholistic perspective. This forum and the LADSOC thread offer a true opportunity to exchange information and ideas which I believe leads to a wholistic discussion of Architecture, development and Planning in Cork City.

let’s just keep the thread going as it has all along… there is a great momentum and I for one would hate for this to change

I agree with mickeydocs. This Cork forum is very popular and generally I think is a very positive thing. It helps me and the other peoples in this firm focus on the design standards we must improve and comptetion on. I read the newpapers and read the forums and of only two comments I think of are bad. Overall it is just democracy and opinions no more than of the corksouthwest.com website expresses. Do not be bullied out of a good thing. It is important to be careful of the future when phrasing these things but also we must protect the good names of this website from unfair newspapers articles.

genario

The owners of the Woodford on Paul Street have been refused permision by CCC to link the neighbouring Loco Cafe premises to the Woodford pub (which is a listed building).
The plans would have extended the Cafe area into the pub and provided extra toilet facilities. However, since no guarantee the plans would not lead to the extension of the pub, the plans were refused because they may have led to the creation of a “superpub”.

In all that rucus about the other ‘issue’ – we forgot the really good news……..

…Eglinton street is after getting the go ahead! A really decent architectural statement is set to be made and should act as a novel gateway into the revived docklands and city. Well done OFlynns! I think a newspaper report said it would get started straight away but my buddy in City hall said that there might be a festival there (at the Eglinton st site) for the end of the year of culture??? So i’d say lex’s report of 2006 start date could well be true. Either way its great news. The standard of building design should be encouraged by this movement.

Yep, best news this year for Cork’s cityscape!

Well, better than a surface car park!

Is there an additional pedestrian bridge going in?

Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance …

@Ronan C wrote:

Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance …

The architects are Wilson Architects. Visit them at http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie

Can’t seem to put pictures up on this post-weird…

Will try again later.

Can a basic level of behaviour be provided on this thread?

I.E. No-one being demeaned or defamed or misrepresented?

If I may say without being branded ageist, it is a pity that certain groups wish to put Cork in some kind of suspended animation when they claim to represent people of an agegroup who were responsible for the electrification of Ireland and the boom years of Lemass and Whitaker. Instead they prey on the fears of elderly people about being dispossed and sent god knows where, to be replaced by whom I wonder?

The fact is that Cork has had unsatisfactory development in the past which led to the decline of the City’s population even while the rest of the county and country increased in numbers. LATSOCL was a barometer of how far Cork had come since and how close it came to screwing it up as it did and where it might go.

I think such groups if actively involved in the transformation of Cork could actually do a world of good and it is up to Cork City Council to find a way out of their dog in the manger attitude to provide an inclusive process of evolution for the City while still allowing people to make a few bob in making Cork a bigger, better place.

Finally, of course Architecture and Planning are different. There is nothing stopping people creating threads to discuss pure architecture and leave those of us who enjoy the holistic (and more accessible to the layman such as myself) discussions of State of Cork to continue on here. To suggest that State of Cork was all about planning was to deny all the swishy scans Lexington provided!

I do think the new forum title is a bit dry. State of Cork was a great title and I’m sure drew a lot of views from the bantering headline alone. In a way it seems the knockers have won by this change alone. Let’s try and retain the humour while softpedalling the acid?

well said Mark.

Could somebody please explain something to me because i’m not sure i’m up to date on something, why was it necessary to issue a new webpage when the other state of cork webpage was perfectly fine? I dont need to remind you how popular and important it has become as a resource. one of the things that attracted so many first time users to the archiseek.com website as a whole was its extensive depth and detail. Days on end could be spent exploring it and each day one could find something new and wonderful. If the culprit(s?) have been addressed shouldnt we continue on with the good work as it was? Why should the comments of 1 or 2 and the outrageously unfair and incorrect paper articles disbenefit the rest of us and the website? I myself am not a solicitor (thats my sons job) and when i discussed this issue with him he said the wise thing for the paper to do was to issue a well seen apology to the website. whatever of it i dont know it’s not got to do with me but I do feel the loss of the other thread will disbenefit us.

On that note I am most pleased to hear some progress is being made for the music school. The design i suppose represents that the term of landmark building does not mean highrise. I do think however it looks far more intriguing by nightime. The use of light seems most interesting and the materials used in the buildings design seems to allow a rich tapestry of effects under nightime lights which gives the building much more character.

Contrary to what the Examiner said, they obviously didn’t examine too closely and were too keen for a headline suggesting a result, the original thread is still online here. It is not lost.

So can we use it again yes/no????? This good if we can continue.

genario

this is all confusing?? read into to much i think.
i have nothing against the cork thread, the old thread was good and now this ???
but i do think that there is enough threads going for cork and its all hypep a bit
although i do enjoy reading it..

my point is could they not just have one decent thread???

@Ronan C wrote:

Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance …

As promised

Maybe go to O’Flynn Construction’s website for more images… Haven’t looked throught the whole website yet.
Thanks Lex…

Thanks a lot, should be a nice addition to Cork

Question for Dowlingm

I’ve been offered a position in Mississauga… would you recommend Toronto and its environs as a good place for a young family looking to leave the strains (commuter and other) of Dublin behind?

thanks for any insights (btw, would you choose to live in Mississauga or in the metropolitan area?).

A decision is due this Wednesday on Ellesmere Properties Ltd. ‘s seven storey Hotel, retail unit, basement carpark and Coffee shop at Lavitts Quay and Half Moon Street (Lex has previously posted images of same).
If i remember correctly, the general opinion on this site was that the architectural merit of the building fell far short of that required for this prestigous location adjacent to Cork Opera House.
Anybody got any ideas how CCC are leaning with this one? Further info. was submitted in mid-June.

@lexington wrote:

You will remember earlier (back in the LADSOCL thread) a post was issued noting Frinailla had entered planning for a 25-unit residential development over commercial facility and basement car-parking. The development, planned for the former Plumbing Utilities Store bordering Ashbrook apartment complex and Top Car Motor Dealership, was designed by Geraldine McNamara of Richard Rainey & Associates and ranges in height between 6 and 7-storeys. Apartments will range in size between 55m sq for one-bedroom units, 90m sq for 2-bedroom units and a 190m sq duplex penthouse with 4-bedrooms (these scale apartments have been actively encouraged by CCC and its nice to see more of these units come in to circulation). Each apartment will have 2 basement parking spaces and basement storage facilities.

In my opinion, a generally quality project – its seems a difficult site to work with, but I do think that this project will compliment the area in the long-run given prospective and current proposals shaping up nearby. The Utilities Store is currently being used by Heberger Construction/Aras Developments as their ‘Site Office’ for the Victoria Station student residence development directly across the road. This project will rise to 5 storeys.

I agree lexington that it isnt a bad project and the site is a difficult one but i think it should be stated that it is difficult for more than one reason. For a start, its size means that any development on it would have to have some height to be viable. Other than that the nature of surrounding buildings like Farranlea hall and Victoria station across the Wilton road are residential and have been designed with the usual residential features like balconies, roof gardens etc. Frinillas other project at Dennehys cross up the road is gonna be residential too and any redevelopment of the Cork farm centre will be of a similar height as this project in question. The design has to consider all these elements – it has to be befitting of the area, allow viablity, provide for residential aspects and be relatively ‘pretty’ while its at it. While i dont think its an offence or ugly design (I like the glass commercial unit (is a commercial unit???) to the front of the site), I dont think its anything particularly spectacular either. Its colouration use of finishings seems varied, neutral colors that smile at, rather than attack the senses, so its not offending anyone. I especially like the penthouse element. The one problem i see staring me in the face however is that 4 storeys wall to the north of the site. It seems unnecessarily bland despite the color. I’m sure the architects had their reasons, but, even a window or 2 to break the repetitiveness up a little? Maybe Top car are looking to redevelop their site that we dont know about. As far as I know windows in the Frinilla projects wall wouldnt be overlooking anything other than a workshop. The L shape of the development gives a bit of variety to the design which otherwise I could just envision walking up along the road and being greet by nothing other than a 4 storey wall! If the penthouse can have windows at this side of the building, can the rest of the north elevation not have them either???

@lexington wrote:

That thing is absolutely woeful!! It is bland, overscaled and makes monkeys of the remaining older buildings on the quayfront. I suppose it’s following the precedent of the oversized lump that’s already built on Lavitt’s Quay? This is the problem – once one mistake occurs it’s easier for more to be made…

For those who don’t know Cork, this is not in a remote area where there are just scraps of historic buildings left and you could go taller]right in the centre[/I], where there is an established scale.

The 3-storey, 4-bay building on the quayfront is a Protected Structure, right? Well under the Planning & Dev Act 2000 (Part IV), the setting of a P. S. is protected as well as the structure itself. So the impact of new development proposals on the integrity of a P. S. has to be taken into account. You can’t just shove a load of rubbish up behind a P. S. once the building itself has been secured.

This image is misleading anyway. A wider image is needed that properly shows the proposal in its location, with the Quays & Emmet Place etc.

ive tried to like this building on so many levels and though it is a vast improvement on the original id be lying to myself if i said i liked it. for such a respected firm rorsa could have done so much better. a shame really.

the architect needs to be sent back to college

@ewankennedy wrote:

Maybe Top car are looking to redevelop their site that we dont know about. As far as I know windows in the Frinilla projects wall wouldnt be overlooking anything other than a workshop. The L shape of the development gives a bit of variety to the design which otherwise I could just envision walking up along the road and being greet by nothing other than a 4 storey wall! If the penthouse can have windows at this side of the building, can the rest of the north elevation not have them either???

I have heard from a good source that Top Car are planning to relocate.

It is hard to judge the quality of the building from the image shown,its quite distorted or maybe its my cataracts again.

I will reserve my opinion (for what its worth) pending review of the file and indeed clear images.
Nice work on the Victoria cross images Lexington,I agree with you on the design.

That blank gable is very bland I would think its to allow for the future development of Top Car ,whom I understand are in negotiations with Cleary Doyle in Mahon for a new car showroom.

Any way what the f*** am I doing on this thing I should be out topping up on the suntan.

@lexington wrote:

……seems a difficult site to work with, but I do think that this project will compliment the area in the long-run given prospective and current proposals shaping up nearby. The Utilities Store is currently being used by Heberger Construction/Aras Developments as their ‘Site Office’ for the Victoria Station student residence development directly across the road. This project will rise to 5 storeys.

Sorry Lexington, it was this project I was talking about….

Are you saying that because these equally terrible proposals were made earlier on for the Lavitt’s Quay area, that the current situation – with an existing overscaled building on the quayfront and an overscaled proposal behind the quayfront – is somehow justified?? – That is complete nonsense.

At the end of the day, the only thing that should be considered is the proper planning and development of the area, and in no way could any of these proposals or the existing building at 21 Lavitt’s Quay be construed to be proper planning and development.

For those who don’t know Cork & are presuming that Lavitt’s Quay is in an outer area where bland montrosities and discontinuity of scale might happen, the arrow on the map shows where it is; right in the central core with a dense fabric of older buildings all around and the incredibly historic Paul Street area just behind:

And the existing yoke – euphemistically named “No. 21 Lavitt’s Quay” .…….serious, serious integration problem………:

That hotel’s been granted by the Council…..I think that they have changed the elevation by droping a couple of units……as for the integration of No 16, I don’t think O’Callaghans wanted to keep that, I think that they were encouraged to do so by the Council. Personally I think it allows for a beter architectural statement (not saying that Lavitts Quay is award stuff) if some of those older buildings are demolished; I accept that there is a balance to be struck, I just think that sometimes older buildings irrespective of merit / condition / potential reuse are seen as being important. I mean, just have a look at the recent NIAH for Cork, some classic stuff in there but there is also somerelatively recent (1950’s) building that personally I wouldn’t look twice at (from a preservation viewpoint – record yes, preserve no).

Anyway, I think the problem with Lavitt’s Quay is the Opera House, anything else is an improvement……

Devin,
from your image, yes the OCP development looks monstrous, yet the Opera House is just out of sight to the left which puts the quayside in perspective. Also there is a hideous multistory carpark just behind the OCP development which was quite visible prior to this construction. This quayside along with Patricks Qy and Merchants Qy can accommodate a slightly larger massing than the older structures provide. That said they should fit in. I disapprove of the impact of the OCP building when viewed from Academy St where it’s overbearing nature becomes quite apparent.

I was a bit wary of No 21 Lavitt’s Quay, but seeing it now complete, it’s one of my favourite new developments in Cork. That entire quayside has looked dreadful for decades – with the nearby Opera House one of the worst of a bad lot. Any redevelopment of the area would be welcome in my book, and No. 21 is one of the best in Cork.

As for the greater height, bring it on. If it leads to other buildings nearby of a similar height, is that a bad thing? Would buildings such as the Roches Stores, Brown Thomas buildings etc. ever have been built if we had the same attitude towards height then as we do now?

And if the height differs, is that a problem either? I think (provided new developments are top-notch) a contrast in heights between new and old side-by-side can be quite striking. To be honest, I think much of Dublin and Limerick’s riverside developments have been quite dull, with endless adjoining buildings of the same or similar height.

Having said all that, I think the proposals for No. 16 Lavitt’s Quay are very poor; being big is ok, but being big and bland isn’t. IMO.

@who_me wrote:

And if the height differs, is that a problem either? I think a contrast in heights between new and old side-by-side can be quite striking.

Provided they can integrate and co-exist happily…….which is not the case on Lavitt’s Quay in my opinion.

ill probably be a lone voice here but i actually like 21 lavitts qy. its impact to the rear a far less significant that the impact the new howard holdings hotel will have. the nice thing about paul street and its tributary lanes is that the seem to be pleasantly isolated in their own timewarped microcosm and i think thats part of their appeal.

it is a pity howard didnt just move onto a different practice, not that ive anything against rorsa but clearly effort was lacking from the no16 design. imagination could have immensely enhanced this site and quayside. i suppose it was a matter of taking advantage of rorsa site knowledge and getting an application in there fast. i fear this building will be another one of those designs people will throw their eyes to heaven each time they pass it in coming years. i dont think 21 lavitts qy beckons the same. its actually quite a clever well finished building and seems to embrace a variety of scales, curvatures and materials which given a bit of variety to what could quite easily have been another bland office building. paddy cashman and clan did a good job. the blandness of the elevations at no16, which tries to embrace a seemingly 1930s-esque deco style using those odd windows, is disappointing. at the very least, greater care to elevational treatements and their vertices could have been afforded with very little cost differentials. pity. but then again maybe we’ll all be fooled on its completion and itll surprise us all.

i personally am aware of proposed designs for phase 3 of the opera house redevelopment with a private developer on board and in fairness, the plans are showing promise and imagination. hopefully the entire quay front will allow for some powerful statements come the next few years. also i hear a private developer is chatting with joe gavin et al about kyrls quay – ooo!

I have to agree with you, I think its good as well but perhaps a bit to busy in places. Interesting thing for that area along the Quay is what happens to the William Clarke Building (I think thats what the red brick yoke adjacent to the entrance to the Paul Street Car Park is called).

As for the opera house, I know that Murray O’Laoire did a fair enough job with the front of the building but I always fear that trying to fix what was a bad looking building is a bit like putting lipstick on a pig…..

@pier39 wrote:

ill probably be a lone voice here but i actually like 21 lavitts qy. its impact to the rear a far less significant that the impact the new howard holdings hotel will have. the nice thing about paul street and its tributary lanes is that the seem to be pleasantly isolated in their own timewarped microcosm and i think thats part of their appeal.

it is a pity howard didnt just move onto a different practice, not that ive anything against rorsa but clearly effort was lacking from the no16 design. imagination could have immensely enhanced this site and quayside. i suppose it was a matter of taking advantage of rorsa site knowledge and getting an application in there fast. i fear this building will be another one of those designs people will throw their eyes to heaven each time they pass it in coming years. i dont think 21 lavitts qy beckons the same. its actually quite a clever well finished building and seems to embrace a variety of scales, curvatures and materials which given a bit of variety to what could quite easily have been another bland office building. paddy cashman and clan did a good job. the blandness of the elevations at no16, which tries to embrace a seemingly 1930s-esque deco style using those odd windows, is disappointing. at the very least, greater care to elevational treatements and their vertices could have been afforded with very little cost differentials. pity. but then again maybe we’ll all be fooled on its completion and itll surprise us all.

i personally am aware of proposed designs for phase 3 of the opera house redevelopment with a private developer on board and in fairness, the plans are showing promise and imagination. hopefully the entire quay front will allow for some powerful statements come the next few years. also i hear a private developer is chatting with joe gavin et al about kyrls quay – ooo!

@lexington wrote:

The innovative CentrePoint, 9-storey office development by DAT Partnerships. To give you some perspective, this image is shows the western elevation, with No.6 Lapps Quay to the left (south), the Bus Station to the right (north) and Oyster Developments proposal to the west (behind the CentrePoint building). It will be important for the Oyster proposal not to detract from this new building either.

i can’t get my head around this thing at all. any better images?

Yes, indeed might I respectfully ask in the earlier context of improving on LATSOCL if it is possible to post better resolution images here that those often going up. Considering it is such an image-rich thread, and effort and time is already put into scanning images, it’s not much more difficult to get a better res. Or invest in a better scanner, they’re only 50 quid in Aldi you know!
More often than not it is more irritating to have a poor quality image than no image at all. It’d improve the thread no end to have higher quality images.
Thanks.

Oh go on then, here’s a smilie 🙂

it looks like an art gallery i did in second year. or at least a bad elevation of what i designed. and what’s with the go-faster fin on the right hand side?

It makes it go faster you see.

Like the amps that go up to 11 😀

That Centrepoint building seems to me like a wave or an olympic torch perhaps??? i know the site and i am perplexed as to how they intend to construct such a complicated looking building on such a tiny plot. I read somewhere, here?, that it hung over the pathways. I would think more photographs are needed to understand how the building looks from the quayside and how it affects the other buildings in the area.

I’m sure I saw very similar deisgn building in Brussels or Strasbourg, its one of the European Commission Buildings, or the European Court of Human Rights (Basically the European something or other!!)

lexington – is the DAT Partnership image shown an Eastern elevation? With No. 6 Lapps Quay +Oliver Plunkett St to the left and bus station to the right +behind?

What do people think of this? As much as can be understood of the building from the image anyhow? I think it has some potential – although i would have preferred something a little sharper and triangular – with a bit more definition – in relation to the specific nature of the site – this building looks like its trying to escape the site, as opposed to reflecting its particular configuration – however i would be fairly positive – but would love to see more images – as well as more impressions of the E-Project’s proposals next door

@sw101 wrote:

it looks like an art gallery i did in second year. or at least a bad elevation of what i designed. and what’s with the go-faster fin on the right hand side?

all it needs now is a bass tube and some bling bling rims!!!!! ‘pimp my office building’, y’all.

like bunch i was expecting a flatiron building type structure on the site given its triangular shape and though i think such a sharp styled structure could have risen higher given its sharper punctuation of the skyline, i have to say i was pleasantly surprised when i saw this image. ive also seen a montage perspective of the building from eglinton st and from that viewpoint its looks a little bulky. from a birdseye perspective the go-faster fin actually teardrops the building off nicely.

I also think 21 lavvitts quay is a great development and adds to the city the thing is we need to move forward with innovative and appealing buildings. The city needs to get rid of the derilict buildings and at last that seems to be happening. When they revamped the front of the opera house they should have looked at the wall facing the quay because as they say dont judge a book by its cover the inside could do with a major revampl aswell.

Does anyone know where Rockfell Investments are based as I cannot seem to find a number for them in connection with the guy building.

Did you see that Tom McCarthy has got the go ahead for a major development in Macroom does anyone know who is going to build it.

@securityman wrote:

I also think 21 lavvitts quay is a great development and adds to the city the thing is we need to move forward with innovative and appealing buildings. The city needs to get rid of the derilict buildings and at last that seems to be happening. When they revamped the front of the opera house they should have looked at the wall facing the quay because as they say dont judge a book by its cover the inside could do with a major revampl aswell.

Does anyone know where Rockfell Investments are based as I cannot seem to find a number for them in connection with the guy building.

Did you see that Tom McCarthy has got the go ahead for a major development in Macroom does anyone know who is going to build it.

Rockfell Investments is owned by the O Donoghue Ring family who own Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond. The address used in the planning application is Lacka Cross, Ballydesmond.

Tom McCarthys job in MAcroom hasnt gone out for tender yet so no contractor has been selected.

I’m sure I saw very similar deisgn building in Brussels or Strasbourg

Not sure what building in Cork you’re referring to, but the building currently seeking planning for Revenue looks very similar to one on Rue Belliard (on the left as you head from Froissart towards town (or the European Parliament) in Brussels, right down to large wooden beams running vertically inside the glass front. As for as I know its a Commission building of some kind.

@Devin wrote:

Provided they can integrate and co-exist happily…….which is not the case on Lavitt’s Quay in my opinion.

That’s fair enough. Though given the dreadful multi-storey car parks just behind the quayside, I think that area is a prime candidate for some taller buildings to mask them. With those in place, No.21 shouldn’t look so out of place.

I do agree with you on No. 16 wholeheartedly, I don’t care much for it at all.

@Aidan wrote:

Not sure what building in Cork you’re referring to,

i was talking about the one proposed by DAT partnerships

@lexington wrote:

sw101 – do you have an images you could share of the ‘Gallery’ you design which helms some resemblance to the DAT Partnerships building? :confused: 😮

i threw out that portfolio years ago. utter rubbish. who are DAT partnerships, architects?

DAT – drug action teams – they are big buzz across the water. Maybe that explains why the building looks like the bowl of an enormous hash pipe.

I see Mick Murphy wasted no time in getting an objection in on the Frinilla building next to Top Motors.

i’ll be honest with you, and I’m not living so far away, i’ve no problem really with this building, its not stunning by any means but its not a bad design. I wont be putting on an objection to this after all this road is starting to suit these buildings and not with any great loss. However you can be darn sure if another student accommodation buildings like that lego brick along Victoria Cross was ever again proposed the council can have my twenty euros because that standard is not acceptable in this area or in any area at all. Also i would like to think that the plans for Dennehys garage at the crossroads – does anyone know who is behind that? – should be more befitting of the height of other buildings in this area. Maybe it could be higher facing the health board building but certainly closer to the junction it should be no more than three possibly four floors – that would depend on how well it looks. It would be nice for that development to be a gateway into the Victoria Cross area and the rest of the city and provide a nice border to the residential areas along Wilton road and Model Farm Road which should be preserved in their plesant suburban state. I would be most heartfelt about that.

Aerial photo of Cork

Sorry….. can’t seem to attach pic – will try later.

I was driving by Blackpool today and saw that PJ Hegartys are after putting up another tower-crane at Blackpool park – its the second one at a development that seems to be flying up. Does anyone know which this tower crane is working on? Is it the hotel? Or offices? The section with the first really tall tower crane seems to be constructing a building of 9 storeys high.

(Enjoy lex! :))

As far as i’m aware, the Hotel portion of Blackpool Park is long dropped after planning wrangles.
The crane now in place is working on a huge extension to the office space already in position. Apparently it is being considered for the Revenue relocation. Although i personally believe it is too far out for OPW to go for.

Any news on the paperboy statue that was due to be reinstated?

I’ve got no news on it i’m afraid. As I mentioned in a post a few months back, it was due to be put in place opposite the old examiner office entrance on St. Patrick Street. But something must have happened because on the appointed day- no paperboy.
But, maybe the less said about ‘d paper’ on here these days the better :p

My sources tell me that City Planners are investigating complaint (s ?) against Frinailla Ltd. with regard to their Lady’s Well development. They had issued letters to residents in the area informing them that they intended to demolish parts of their sizeable complex of buildings in and around Watercourse Road, out in Blackpool.
This would (i’m told) be prior to a decision by An Bord Pleanala which is due in August on the future of the site. The company have plans for a mixed use development of apartments, underground parking, retail, gym and creche.
See here for an image of the proposed development. Frinailla’s Lady’s Well

“Any news on the paperboy statue that was due to be reinstated?”

Probably been sold to someone in Dublin’s docklands so that it can sit alongside the ‘Cill Airne’ and the ‘Jeanie Johnson’!

Another example of unbuilt Ireland?

In 1995, UCC asked O’Donnell Tuomey Architects to draw up a development plan for the former Good Shepherd Convent and its lands at Sunday’s Well in Cork. The site was to accommodate a humanities campus for 1,500 students in Phase One. The project was ultimately abandoned but not without leaving us with these interesting ideas on transforming an institutional building.

The ultimate faith of the convent building is now anybody’s guess.

A very interesting proposal I wonder will a more contemporary scheme emerge along the same proportions with a newer outer skin?

Does anyone know who is behind the new leisure facility on the Old Mallow road that flemings is building and what is actually going in there.

The leisure centre on the Old Mallow Road near Fitz’ Boreen is by Blackpool Bowl & Leisure Ltd.
It consists of a Family Recreation Centre, Health & Fitness Club & Day Care Centre compr. 6203sqm. over 4 storeys (ground & first being semi-basement) incl. 2 vehicular entrances, car parking for 154 cars, bicycle parking, service yard, ESB substation & switch room, associated plant, boundary wall & fence, associated landscaping & site works.
It was granted permission by CCC early in 2002.
Consists of bowling alley, gym, creche and (I believe) a swimming pool.

Where’s Lexington these days

The EchoBoy is Back!!!!

The Echo Boy statue which had been missing from Cook Street for so long has now been returned to the Streets of Cork.
It’s situated on St. Patrick’s Street, outside the old Cork Examiner Offices doorway and was unveiled today.
Since i’ve got this wrong before, here’s a picture to prove it 🙂

Thanks for that Radioactiveman it was an interesting episode

Cork COunty Cricket Club have appealled to ABP Cork City COuncil’s decision to grant permission to UCC for the construction of an Outreach and Access building on its lands at MArdyke Gardens adjacent to the new MArdyke Bridge.

I see that O’sheas builders are starting work at the back of the wilton shopping centre is this more shops or offices because I know Tesco were turned down planning permission for a petrol station.

What is happening with East Gate, Little Island I see that they are finnished a major building down there for a while but nobody seems to be moving in I thought Homebase were launching there at the beginningof the year have they pulled out with the number of DIY superstores in the city.

blackpool seems to be coming on no end. i think it was lisam was saying that the retail park there is far better than the one at mahon pt given all the hype and i have to agree. its a nice change. the leisure centre should just add to it all.

anyone hear about any activity along kennedys qy with iaws???

this place seems a little quiet these days…almost eerie! oooo!

hey radioactiveman sweet pics there on sundays well. hear frinilla have oriordan staheli working on a nice housing project there.

Hello!!!

I see McCarthy developments have had the appeal against their office building for the south docklands (Monahan road/Centre park road???) withdrawn. Thats good news right? Does anyone know whether it will begin construction anytime soon?? 🙂

Just an update on the new Mardyke Bridge:
Inside Cork quote CCC sources as saying the bridge will not be open to the public until late October at the earliest!!!!! Still waiting for the paths to put in place. And who’s responsible for putting the paths in place?? That’s right you guessed it: CCC.

[font=Arial:2mvje3ht]So glad to here that the Echo Boy is back Radioactiveman, you've been talking about him for so long, you must be really chuffed. And Re: Homebase Securityman, I heard they were looking for a place in the Carrigtowhill area (but it might be only roumour). Fire at the new airport terminal, I hope it wont slow down the construction of it.[/font:2mvje3ht] 😉

I think a lot of people expected Mahon to wipe the floor with everyone when it opened and it did for the first month when people were fascinated with new stores such Debenhams, Zara, Bershka, Best Menswear etc. which were not anywhere else however they forgot that people spend there money on more than just clothes. An example I give you is that i’m in the process of getting a house at the moment so it was time to check out what to get for the inside of it. Mahon is useless in this area besides B&Q which is a good walk from the centre mind you. On the other hand Blackpool comes up trumps as you have Soundstore for all your appliances, Dunnes Stores is better than TESCO for Bed clothes, cutlery, curtins etc, you also have two options for furniture in Reid and Land of Leather, Argos, maplin Electronics, Carpet Right and not to mention Atlantic Homecare. Aswell as this Blackpool has a fruit and veg shop, butchers, cake shop, shoe repairs, Costa Coffee is class and a pictures that wont leave a big hole in your pocket the prices in the Omniplex are way over the Top.

There is a couple of big names moving into Ballincollig and i expect this to be a good mixed development with Dunnes, Easons and Carrig Donn so far in there anyone know who else is going in there.

I see in the Examiner today that Harvey Norman are looking for someone in Cork are they eying up a new store I heard a rumour a while back that they were looking to buy the old Woodies Store??

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Todays Examiner has some splendid images of the proposed new development behind MAhers outdor shop near the Bus station. Importantly they seem to suggest that the old red brick chimney will be preserved. The article also suggest that a planning application will be made in the next few weeks for an office development in the listed building currently occuppied by Mahers.
The development focused on in the article and images looks impressive. Modern but certainly following a form of the listed building to which it is adjacent. The incorporation of the chimney is crucial and I don’t know has it been done to my satisfaction, but that’s a personal opinion.

---

got any pics of that new office development? any scans? i was kinda semi dreading this when i heard about it given that the eproject architects havent really impressed me so far. if anyone could get a scan it would be well sweet. im an irish times person myself sorry!!! hehe

the chimney is very important i would have been really p***ed off if that was lost.

@securityman wrote:

I see that O’sheas builders are starting work at the back of the wilton shopping centre is this more shops or offices because I know Tesco were turned down planning permission for a petrol station.

What is happening with East Gate, Little Island I see that they are finnished a major building down there for a while but nobody seems to be moving in I thought Homebase were launching there at the beginningof the year have they pulled out with the number of DIY superstores in the city.

Its the new library

@securityman wrote:

I see in the Examiner today that Harvey Norman are looking for someone in Cork are they eying up a new store I heard a rumour a while back that they were looking to buy the old Woodies Store??

Noooooo!!!! Does that mean we’ll be getting their ads on local radio too… 🙁

[font=Arial:3n9n6b7z]It was front page news on the Echo today, PC World and Currys are opening within the next few months in Mahon Point. I didn't even here rumours that they were opening up in Cork and what a shock I got when I saw it on the frontpage. Thats some good news for Mahon, should balance things out between there and Blackpool. Didn't here that Harvey Normans wanted to buy the old Woodies, but they want to open up 3 new stores in Ireland over the coming years. I've been in one or two of their shops in Australia, didn't think they were that great though.[/font:3n9n6b7z] 😉

great to have you back Lex. Seriously, this is a great site and thanks to you, RM, and all the regular posters, and to Paul at HQ. A great resource for info from afar. Just to let you know that it is certainly appreciated on my side of the pond.
Interestingly, was looking at Cork and Dublin on Google Earth…seems like they have the major cities covered (partially at least). Well worth checking out if you guys get the chance.

@lexington wrote:

Thanks corcaighboy – that really does mean a lot, and I’m sure all those who so very importantly contribute to this thread and to the headhonchos that keep this site so valuably alive are always pleased and appreciative to hear such words! 🙂

I agree, the Google Earth resource is a most interesting resource – it may be a little out of date, but it certainly is addictive and wonderful to behold.

The next few weeks and months look set to bring some very interesting developments and additions to the Cork architectural scene so I’m looking forward very much to seeing them evolve. Academy Street isn’t too far away with a lodgement imminent – plus plans to link the retail centres at Paul Street and Cornmarket Street look set to again be on the cards. You may remember a few months back I indicated that Paul Street SC was in line for a complete overhaul – well, from what I’ve heard since I returned, that indeed looks set to be true. As far as I know, and I am open to correction on this, 2008 looks set to be the completion date for the new linked and refurbished complexes in their entirety for Cornmarket, Paul and Academy Streets.

ocp are also looking to include the North Main Street shopping centre in their upgrade/academy street plans!

@lexington wrote:

The next few weeks and months look set to bring some very interesting developments and additions to the Cork architectural scene so I’m looking forward very much to seeing them evolve. Academy Street isn’t too far away with a lodgement imminent – plus plans to link the retail centres at Paul Street and Cornmarket Street look set to again be on the cards. You may remember a few months back I indicated that Paul Street SC was in line for a complete overhaul – well, from what I’ve heard since I returned, that indeed looks set to be true. As far as I know, and I am open to correction on this, 2008 looks set to be the completion date for the new linked and refurbished complexes in their entirety for Cornmarket, Paul and Academy Streets.

---

Yes i agree that this (Academy St) will be an “interesting” development as you put it, most certainly it could provide a very important element to the city centre but what i’ll be watching for in particular is the impact such a large building will have on such an important and historic quarter of our city. this huge building seems to be laced with and touching important architectural buildings like the steps outside that corner bar on Pana and is near the Crawford. Also the view from Emmett Place will be very visible and I am concerned that a poor design will adversely affect this area. I am counting heavily on a strong and good design is submitted. also the old Cork Examiner offices along Academy street are very unique and historic too, a little ugly, but the detail seems rare and important. The building such do its best to compliment them.

as for the links? How exactly to the intendto link Academy street with Paul Street and Cornmarket street and Northmain street shopping centres??? Underground?? I cant imagine any over street links. This would be disastrous for the street scapes. Also if its underground especially from Paul street to Academy Street how could such a sensitive street area be affected? I would presume the link would go under Pauls Lane, maybe under Matthews centre (my son tells me they are seeking to redevelop soon? any truth in this?) and across to Academy Street? If this is the case this may explain why the corporation are hesitating to fix the awful road works damage that has plagued Half Moon Street for years. It was a lovely new pedestrian area and is now ripped up with cheap tarmac filling and potholes.

@lexington wrote:

😮 It would seem masterplans that were believed to have been assessed by the Ford Motor Co. for their 11-acre docklands site in the Marina Park area have been shelved and the land now (across the road to the north from the Munster Agricultural Showgrounds) looks set to be put on the market – this important site is expected to fetch in the region of 20m euros for the motor company and will offer any prospective developer one of the most important docklands site in Cork ever to hit the market. The development potential is huge and will require substantial investment – however educational/institutional uses have been touted. Of course this will be subject to negotiation. The site is one of the largest single land holdings in the central docklands area to come available.

This project would represent the end of an era for the Marina, away from manufacturing and onwards to bigger and better things.

This area of the city has so much undeveloped potential… riverside walk, mature treescaped, an within easy reach of the city.

Pity about the esb power plant though.

wrt to ESB plant – I quite like it and think attempts to mask it should be resisted. It has the one downside of being an actual working power plant and therefore any expectations that the ESB will move any time soon are highly unrealistic (and against public interest).

Battersea Liteâ„¢

Good to have you back, Lex. 😉

For what they are worth, here are some maps, illustrating distribution privately rented and public housing accomodation in the City according to the 2002 census.

URL=http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=housesprivatelex4yf.jpg][/URL]

Also a look at the public housing in the city –

[/URL

@jungle wrote:

Originally Posted by securityman
I see in the Examiner today that Harvey Norman are looking for someone in Cork are they eying up a new store I heard a rumour a while back that they were looking to buy the old Woodies Store??

Noooooo!!!! Does that mean we’ll be getting their ads on local radio too… 🙁

Word is they’re fitting out the old Woddies site on Kinsale Road… thats the rumour anyway…

[font=Arial:8hwqcj4q]When completed, will Eglington Street replace Cork County Hall as Ireland's tallest building, or is there some other building in Dublin going to steal the proud title???[/font:8hwqcj4q] :confused:

From what I’ve read, the Eglinton Street tower will be taller than Cork County Hall, so if it gets built before some of those yokes proposed for Dublin, it will briefly have that title. I reckon that that location could take an even higher structure anyway, which would help to slim down the slightly squat appearance of the east and west elevations.

OPW 32 storey will be the tallest (by far) but project unlikely to proceed for years. Note 100m planned for point village and south docks so Eglinton (and indeed County Hall) will feature far down any list. Assuming Eglinton commences in near future it will have the crown for a while.

[font=Arial:2ww910eb]Oh my god, I've never heard of a building in Cork topping 100m. Can someone give me more info. about the other “high” rise projects of the city. I've only heard of the names but thought they were like some urban myth or something. Where are they going to be built if/when they get the go ahead (or have they already recieved the green light, I cudda been living like a hermet under a rock while all these projects came about)?? And sorry if ye gotta repeat what I missed out on.[/font:2ww910eb] :confused:

[font=Arial:qmov11i1]Thanks for the info. Yeah, thought buildings in excess of 100m was too good to be true for Cork. Shame the Water Street development was changed, I prefered it when the tower was in the middle, it looked more symetrical and very classy. Another botched job by the planning authorities! It looks very similar if not identical to some apartments that were built in London's docklands last year (don't ask me the name, I'm after forgetting).
And whats this I read in the Echo today…… Cork's two airbridges still in consideration by the DAA, fools. Maybe their plan is to turn Cork into a little regional airport like Waterford or Sligo so we'll be forced to use Dublin Airport to leave the country. What will the people from New York think when they arrive into Cork airport only having to find they have to sprint across the tarmac! First world country, third class facilities![/font:qmov11i1] 😡

oh mein eyes.

Lex, forgive my ignorance, but what is the stadium located to the right of the highlighted docklands site? Is it Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Turner’s Cross? Or something else? It’s really been bugging me.

@jackwade wrote:

Lex, forgive my ignorance, but what is the stadium located to the right of the highlighted docklands site? Is it Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Turner’s Cross? Or something else? It’s really been bugging me.

It’s Pairc Ui Chaoimh

Speaking of Turner’s Cross, the Munster FA just got funding for the re-development of the ground. This mainly involves rdemolotion of the exisiting structure and changing rooms at the Shed End and roofing the St. Anne’s end. The drawings are available for download/viewing from the Cork City FC site http://corkcityfc.ie/home.htm.
Not the most inspiring of designs, but I guess to someone who spent many a rain-sodden Sunday afternoon standing on a muddy grass bank at ‘the Box’ all those years ago, it is a mighty improvement!
Functional is proabbly the best way to desribe it. Will bring the ground up to 7,000 all seated capacity once complete. Presently the Shed End is a terrace and thus not open when City play European matches. I do hope, however, that the seats are laid out in such a way that there is some degree of leg-room. The seats at the St. Anne’s end are great if you are a mouse!

[font=Arial:w8gt124f]Ich bin sehr erbärmlich, wenn mein farbenfreudiges Schreiben Ihren Augen nicht anpasst, aber ich versuche, einer Konversation ein Licht zu bringen.
Glad ye all noticed, thx lex, I was going for the Carnaby Street boho look alright. As long as we get our 2 airbridges, I'm happy! The CAA has no problem forcing the DAA to pay for these new air bridges, but I doubt the third and fourth will come as easily as the CAA themsleves will have to pay for them.
Es tut ich Leid, den mein Deutsch nicht gut ist. (Sorry my German isn't any good).[/font:w8gt124f] :rolleyes:

[font=Arial:1awng546]And it just clicked to me, why am I the only one using colours….. it isn't the middle ages you know, we're allowed to bring light to a conversation without being flogged by the local church for having some amount of fun! Lets make the other forums envious of us!![/font:1awng546] 😮

@A-ha wrote:

[font=Arial:2s6qesyq]Ich bin sehr erbärmlich, wenn mein farbenfreudiges Schreiben Ihren Augen nicht anpasst, aber ich versuche, einer Konversation ein Licht zu bringen.
Glad ye all noticed, thx lex, I was going for the Carnaby Street boho look alright. As long as we get our 2 airbridges, I'm happy! The CAA has no problem forcing the DAA to pay for these new air bridges, but I doubt the third and fourth will come as easily as the CAA themsleves will have to pay for them.
Es tut ich Leid, den mein Deutsch nicht gut ist. (Sorry my German isn't any good).[/font:2s6qesyq] :rolleyes:

It’s better than mine, Halt Swine-hunt!!! Auchtung etc…… 😀

It was announced this afternoon (27 July 2005) that the Lewis Glucksman Gallery has been shortlisted for the Stirling Prize.

William Hill are offering 7-2 odds.

The shortlist includes six buildings including Zaha Hadid’s BMW factory in Germany and the new Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh. More on this story on Guardian homepagehttp://society.guardian.co.uk/urbandesign/story/0,11200,1537128,00.html

The Lewis Glucksman Gallery is the RIAI Best Public Building in Ireland 2005

RIBA 2005 Award winner in European category

2005 Project of the Year, UK Buildings Services Awards

good for the glucksman! the plan should be to get the city’s name up into those nominations more often!

im not as technically apt as some of the feckin whizzs on here so my pic above aint great but i cant say this is a pretty creature. this is the oyster developments office building for dean st on the old obrien premises right??? look at the chimney (my skills in full show as i highlight it with a circle), its totally dominated by the new block. and whats with all the brick? faceless. dont know about this. even after consultations when my yang-yang spirtual guide thing and all that, im finding it hard to give it my love. is it too plain or something? the chimney seems lost, like its trying to scrap or climb up the side of the wall of the new building to get some sunshine. arent there some houses just to the south of this? and a adult shop…not that i know anything about that…or have a tab with the place. 😀 hey its natural to be curious anyway! i know a few of the houses and the adult store have been the subject of some big buys lately. could it be oyster on a spree again with some further intentions? or someone else? anyone?

also may i just add in the spirit of all this german that ich hatte eine sehr gestörte kindheit und ich versuche noch, über ihr zu erhalten, followed by my deepest arnold schwarzenegger laugh – ha – ha – ha.! 😉

Sorry about your disturbed childhood pier39, i’m glad to see your trying to cheer yourself up with laughter ha ha ha. I like that Oyster building thingy, it looks as if it will suit the area, it’s a contrast with that white canopy (which looks to be going brownish now) at the bus depo. Gotta go to Tesco, I’ll be back! (Gawd, its Arnie night tonight)

Hi there, any idea what the commercial unit will be used for in the Frinailla’s Victoria Cross development? I have to say, I’m a bit taken aback by the overall height seeing as the last planning application for site was granted permission for 5 storeys, and with the condition of some apartments and roof terrace to be removed…any opinion on this.? Much appreciated by enquiring student with a lot to learn![/font] @lexington wrote:

You will remember earlier (back in the LADSOCL thread) a post was issued noting Frinailla had entered planning for a 25-unit residential development over commercial facility and basement car-parking. The development, planned for the former Plumbing Utilities Store bordering Ashbrook apartment complex and Top Car Motor Dealership, was designed by Geraldine McNamara of Richard Rainey & Associates and ranges in height between 6 and 7-storeys. Apartments will range in size between 55m sq for one-bedroom units, 90m sq for 2-bedroom units and a 190m sq duplex penthouse with 4-bedrooms (these scale apartments have been actively encouraged by CCC and its nice to see more of these units come in to circulation). Each apartment will have 2 basement parking spaces and basement storage facilities.

In my opinion, a generally quality project – its seems a difficult site to work with, but I do think that this project will compliment the area in the long-run given prospective and current proposals shaping up nearby. The Utilities Store is currently being used by Heberger Construction/Aras Developments as their ‘Site Office’ for the Victoria Station student residence development directly across the road. This project will rise to 5 storeys.

A quick snapshot of the 6 nominees for the Stirling Prize on the following link. http://society.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,9730,1537169,00.html

Anyone have pics of the €100m Dairygold commercial and retail development in Mallow? 🙂 would be much obliged!

I dont know about anyone else but do you ever look forward to hearing about the next big project for the c ity? You know those ones that get you really excited???? For me I think the last one was Paul kenny’s plan for St. patricks qy or the other plan for Clontarf street.

I’m looking forward to hearing what is proposed for Horgans quay and also that site that sold recently for what I read at least was 8 million on Alberts quay. Maybe because with a development planned there it will given the area both sides of the river a full developed frontage. Also the Reliance building plans will be interesting. Hope they include the sports shop there and the surrounding properties. it will be really interesting to see if they do something with the Simon community centre next door as well. It should be a really good design to mark the beginning of Clontarf st too. Anyone else got anything theyre looking forward too??

Hope the Gluckman gallery does well. When it was being built i kept thinking it was the biggest waste of money considering the college was already short of funds and staff had to be messed about with to sort out funding. The college was short something like 9 million and the gallery cost 11m. I dont know how utilised it is by students, I only ever took a look around to see what all the talk was about twice. But now that its there its a nice addition to the college and the city I think. Maybe the gallery will recoup its value in the future and maybe contribute to the college.

Um… isn’t the Glucksman called after Lewis Glucksman for a reason? I don’t think the €11m was borne exclusively by the University.

ps That Deane St proposal? Not too sure. Destined to become street wall paper when (if) the other proposals in the vicinty kick off.

Am i wrong in saying that the gallery was named in honour of Mr Glucksman because of the donation made on his behalf to the university to assist in the completion of the second phase of the O’Rahilly building. The funding for the gallery was made from the universitys own resources, a grant from the dept of Education and Arts, Culture and the Islands, plus other sources. ?

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/magazine/2004/1009/3640492252MG0910GLUCK.html

Amazing space

ARCHITECTURE: Cork’s new gallery is a work of art itself. Gemma Tipton meets Loretta Glucksman, who, with her husband Lewis, has given Ireland this extraordinary building.

Third-generation Irish-American, Loretta Brennan Glucksman divides her time between Ireland and the US. A prominent supporter of Irish cultural studies, she is in Cork to celebrate the opening of the new €10 million art gallery, which bears her husband’s name. I asked her why it is that, in Ireland, the visual arts have always lagged behind literature, music and theatre in terms of profile and international recognition. One of the reasons, she suggests, was purely practical. “It has to do with the ease of transmission, and economics; people could support themselves by playing an instrument or telling stories.”

Loretta is something of an expert when it comes to Irish culture and its economic basis. Chairwoman of the American Ireland Fund, she is also founding patron, with her husband Lewis, of Glucksman Ireland House, the centre for Irish Studies at New York University. Located at the bottom of Fifth Avenue, Glucksman Ireland House is a small Victorian mews house, sitting in incongruous defiance of the skyscrapers that rise up to define the avenues of Manhattan.

There is a disparity, too, between the kind of Ireland that Irish-Americans expect to find when they come to this country, and the reality of our rapidly changing culture. Irish Studies departments in American universities focus on literature, traditional music, and social and political history. Loretta describes the “ephemeral link that Irish-Americans feel with the land of their forebears, in many cases a land they have never even visited themselves. Irish culture provides Irish-Americans with a link to their own histories.”

In fact, it also represents a kind of cultural security blanket, an unchanging place of traditional values, and literary lyricism.

Contemporary visual art tends not to fit comfortably into this mould and is low on the Irish Studies agenda, despite the fact that artists such as Sean Scully, James Coleman and Patrick Ireland, for example, have attained such international status and acclaim.

So why have the Glucksmans now sponsored this new contemporary art gallery here? “The short answer,” Loretta laughs, “is that Lew had already done a library [at University of Limerick]. But seriously,” she adds, “in the past number of years, Lew has become increasingly interested in contemporary Irish artists, and visual art is a beautiful way to learn about the country and its culture.”

Set in a linear park on the banks of the river Lee, the Lewis Glucksman Gallery has been designed by architects O’Donnell & Tuomey. It will be opened next week by President Mary McAleese, nearly three months ahead of the official commencement of Cork’s year as European Capital of Culture.

It is an instantly striking building, and yet one which pulls off the tricky feat of both blending in with, and standing out from, its surroundings. So how have the architects managed it? How does this 2,000 sq-metre building not so much fit into, as belong to its surroundings, when so many other attempts at contemporary architecture seem to stamp so aggressively on their sites?

The traps into which many of our more recent buildings have stumbled, seem often to have been created by a lack of confidence. Complicated by a lingering ambivalence to the built legacy of the period of British rule here, we have struggled to define exactly what our architectural heritage actually looks like. Urban planning policies limiting the heights of buildings in our cities have also led to blocks which appear as failed skyscrapers, cut off at the knees, their heavy bases clumsy with nothing to support. In other instances, a misplaced urge to “fit in” results in façades which bear no relationship to the spaces behind them, or in pick-and-mix architectural features glued onto buildings – architraves, columns and cartouches. Architecturally speaking, we seem to have no more idea of what contemporary Ireland is really like than do those Irish Studies students who look to this country for a Celtic Twilight land of Riverdance made flesh.

The design of the Lewis Glucksman Gallery represents a more grown-up Ireland; a country where the first question is now “what do we want?” rather than “what do others want from us?”

Architects O’Donnell & Tuomey’s ongoing transformation of a former industrial school into the Furniture College at Letterfrack, Co Galway, is a project which has won them acclaim at this year’s Venice Architectural Biennale, where they are currently representing Ireland. Among their previous projects, they have also designed the Gallery of Photography and the Irish Film Institute, both in Temple Bar.

The new gallery is an instantly arresting construction. From the outside, it seems to be part a series of limestone and glass boxes, twisting around a central axis, and part a massive curving wooden structure, cantilevered out from the main building, and resting lightly on slender stilts. Ireland has never seen a space quite like it for looking at art.

One of the reasons it sits into its site so well is that it sidesteps the obvious route of building low along the river bank. As John Tuomey puts it, “if you build horizontally across the site, you extinguish the very site that you have chosen to protect.” Instead, the building occupies a relatively small “footprint”, and acts as a focal point for the park, rather than an obliteration of it.

The architects took the surrounding mature trees as a reference for the height of the building, and care was taken to preserve them, consequently avoiding that barren look that so many new developments suffer. Use of materials also works in the building’s favour, with the lower levels defined by limestone, and the upper areas in American oak. The same separation continues inside, and while this may seem like an architectural conceit, it actually works to give a harmonious sense of space and presence. Horizontally, a flight of steps leads to the podium on which the galleries stand and where the restaurant is sited, and then flows away again down to the river, where a bridge is planned to link the gallery to the road beyond the campus.

Purpose-built contemporary art galleries are relatively rare in Ireland. In Dublin, there are the Douglas Hyde Gallery, the Royal Hibernian Academy, and various spaces in Temple Bar. Then there are the multi-use venues, such as Draíocht in Blanchardstown, An Grianán in Letterkenny, and the Island Arts Centre in Lisburn, where the galleries share space and facilities with theatres, workshops and studios. When it comes to building art galleries and museums, however, many of our spaces (such as the Irish Museum of Modern Art) are conversions, dictated to by the templates of historic buildings.

In fact, our idea of what art galleries ought to look like comes from the original meaning of the word gallery: the connecting apartments and offices in such grand buildings as the Louvre, the Uffizi and the Vatican, which even before their conversion to art museums were decoratively hung with portraits, paintings, and sculptures. These sequential spaces allowed museum curators to hang their collections in chronological order, telling stories of art history or antiquity which generally led the visitor to the conclusion that the present society represented the culmination and apotheosis of civilisation.

In terms of the history of art spaces, the first great breaks from this tradition came in Vienna with the Secession Building (the original “white cube”) at the end of the 19th century; and then with the spiral rotunda of the Guggenheim Museum in New York in the 1950s. The Guggenheim is exciting, as is its much younger sister, the Guggenheim Bilbao, but while they may pull in the tourists, innovative shapes and spaces just aren’t as conducive to hanging, and looking at, works of art as are the plain white cubes.

Here, O’Donnell + Tuomey’s building is different again. Apart from a pair of central cubed spaces (two jewel boxes which are climate-controlled to facilitate the showing of the most valuable pieces), the larger galleries, one on each of the building’s two upper floors, wrap around the core of the structure. In each, the external walls are curved, their sweep being punctuated with windows.

The reactionary in me asks: why change something that works? And yet, the nature of art has changed from that which was shown in those early galleries, the ones that defined how we think art spaces ought to look. We inherited the form of an art gallery, without ever really questioning how it should, or may, change over time.

Loretta agrees. “I love the National Gallery, and I do think there’s so much to be gained from that model, but I don’t think it’s the only one.”

At the Glucksman, there is a mould-breaking flavour to the architecture which encourages you to think: here is a place where I can see things differently, here is a place where my ideas about art – or how I relate to it – will be challenged; an un-boxlike gallery, where one can think outside of the box.

In many ways, I will always love pristine art spaces where there is nothing to see but the art itself, and yet I welcome this experimentation. The Glucksman allows visitors to make their own routes through, and associations within each exhibition; it won’t always be perfect for looking at all kinds of art, and yet when it does work, the particularly beautiful qualities of light and movement in the galleries will really sing.

The different form of the Lewis Glucksman Gallery creates a place in which the ways we read art and culture can be examined and reassessed. This is an idea which the gallery’s director, Dr Fiona Kearney (wrongly described as curator in last week’s Irish Times Magazine), plans to exploit for the programme, offering the opportunity for artists to work on collaborative projects with the various academic departments at UCC. “One of Lew’s dreams,” says Loretta, “was to help create an institution where ideas could be fully explored.”

The opening of the gallery, next Friday, will feature a series of Dürer etchings, as well as an exhibition of American painting drawn from the New York University collection. These include works by Willem de Kooning, Philip Guston, Grace Hartigan, Ad Reinhardt, Jim Dine and Robert Rauschenberg. The show intends to challenge accepted notions of American contemporary art history.

Next year will see 40 Shades of Green, a reassessment of Irish art and design; while curator of exhibitions and projects René Zechlin, originally from the Frankfurter Kunstverein, will be working on Investigations, a series of projects with six international artists.

Supported also by donations from generous sources, including the Sisk family, the Lewis Glucksman Gallery is an intellectually as well as architecturally challenging place. It has already been nominated for the prestigious European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture, the Mies van der Rohe Award.

The Lewis Glucksman Gallery opens on October 15th, on the UCC campus

paul could you paste that article in here? i can’t get into that site

will post up picture of the mallow/dariygold venture tomorrow. pretty impressive from images on front of echo on tuesday nite.

can it be ugly and un-noticed at the same time?!?

Thanks to Archiseek for hosting this discussion and for all the good wishes to the Glucksman.

FYI, the Glucksman’s capital costs were funded by a number of private donors, some of whom wish to remain anonymous. The Glucksmans and Sisk family have building and one of gallery spaces named after them respectively.

The programme funding for the Glucksman is provided from a number of sources including Arts Council.

Since opening on 15 October, we have had 55,000 visitors (projected visitor numbers for the year were originally 40,000). 5000 of those are children in dedicated art workshops and courses – a key aim of the Glucksman is to introduce primary and second level students to visual culture. Many of the schools have little or no tradition of placing students in third level, the Glucksman may contribute to changing things a little in that regard.

Check out our website for information on current shows, projects and events.

Or help us win the BBC online poll by voting for us at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4722143.stm

Fiona Kearney
Director, Lewis Glucksman Gallery

A report on yesterday’s Examiner stated that the busman’s hut on Patrick Street will remain there until at least September, as new plans for it’s replacement were not yet ready. It was described as an ugly eyesore.
Can anybody out there tell me why we need a hut on Patrick Street at all? Surely these busmen could have been housed at the redeveloped bus station at Parnell Place, which must be all of 2 minutes walk from the Statue. What value is it adding, by having it in the middle of our most prestigious street? Any time I walk past, the lads are having a chat and making tea. I can’t recall seeing a similar farce on O’Connell Street, Oxford Street or the Champs-Elysees. Someone at City Hall should have the balls to stand up to these busmen, and just demolish the thing.

Does anyone have any civic pride left??

@A-ha wrote:

Sorry about your disturbed childhood pier39, i’m glad to see your trying to cheer yourself up with laughter ha ha ha.

thanks a-ha, im just taking it one day at a time!!!! 😀

now i know not to take urban legend to seriously and i know this thread (or its older sister) dealt with it before but i keep hearing bad news about debenhams in mahon pt – and something to do with penneys replacing it or somewhat? i just keep thinkin no smoke without fire…..anyone know anything??? (lex???)

by the way if anyones interested my firm (well, not mine, i wish i just work there on occassion – well until they find out im hoarding the comapny pens! hehe) are actively involved in a little known kennedy qy site. its been goin on for a while now and things seem to be pretty positive. ooooo! exciting! i luv when my borthday comes early. hehe

pana01 as for the busman bin yeah its annoying but if its got to do with any state body it always takes ages. at least we know itll be replaced. but tis true tis ugly tis true.

awww, i hope debenhams don’t close (espically if it’s to make way for a pennys), they got really nice stuff and it’s competiton for brown thomas. anyone hear anything else about when pc world and currys are moving into mahon point, any dates pencilled in??:confused:

sorry, should replace :confused: with a 😎 you’ll need ’em to read last message!

and any dates for pc world and currys?

Looks nice, I love the modern contemporary look. And I know it was announced weeks ago, but I don’t think that Grand Parade should be done in the same style as Patrick St. It should be made to look different, those lights will NOT suit that area! 😡

I like the designs for Grand parade. I think it’ll add continuity to the city centre and i especially like the way the pedestrian area to the west is being enlarged with the traffic lanes moved to 1 side.

Has anyone seen the new building on Copley street under construction by Coffey builders it looks so cheap and boring! 😡

I like the Farmers Market in Mahon Point, they seem to becoming more trendy then going to the nearest Dunnes or Tesco (which is ironically right next door). They’re popping up everywhere. Midleton, Cobh and Youghal all have markets selling local produce and crafts. Shame it’s only on one day a week though. 🙂

Everyone must be gone away for the bank holiday week-end, it’s been so quiet on here these last few days. And I know I mentioned it before, but who da f*cking hell do I have to go to about the public transport in this city, or should I say the lack of it. It’s so unbeliveable. I am so serious, the city needs some sort of trolleybus or tram. The buses smell up the city and all a trolleybus would need is a ‘lil old wire. I’ll say it again, monorails would be ideal for Cork, and don’t laugh like the last time I mentioned it, making jokes about the Simpsons, it’s so childish. If anyone can give me any names of who would take note of the bad transportation system in Cork, then let me know. :confused:

Oh, and didn’t I hear ages ago that the taxis were to be made uniform in the city? Ya know, like the London Cabs or the New York yellow, all that sort. Whats the story with that? Is it happening or wot?

Anyone have any images of Paul Kenny’s Treasury Office Development? Or the Dairygold complex for Mallow? Thanks 🙂

@A-ha wrote:

Everyone must be gone away for the bank holiday week-end, it’s been so quiet on here these last few days. And I know I mentioned it before, but who da f*cking hell do I have to go to about the public transport in this city, or should I say the lack of it. It’s so unbeliveable. I am so serious, the city needs some sort of trolleybus or tram. The buses smell up the city and all a trolleybus would need is a ‘lil old wire. I’ll say it again, monorails would be ideal for Cork, and don’t laugh like the last time I mentioned it, making jokes about the Simpsons, it’s so childish. If anyone can give me any names of who would take note of the bad transportation system in Cork, then let me know. :confused:

I wouldn’t support trolley buses in the city. They have all the disadvantages of trams – inflexibility of route – and none of the advantages – ability to carry a large volume of people. I would fully support the introduction of Light Rail into the city.

At one point there was a thread on the Platform 11 forums about a possible route for Light Rail from the city to Ballincollig. I haven’t visited there since they made the forums only readable by members though.

I saw the new Montessori school on the Skehard Road for the first time over the weekend. I quite like it. It seems to rise above the banality that is often associated with educational buildings.

Anyone have any pictures or comments? It was hard to form a full impression when going past it on a crowded bus.

I think the last thing that should be brought into the city is a light rail network. Trams would be ideal for the suburbs but look at all the trouble the Luas caused. Drilling, digging and more noise in our newly renovated city centre isn’t very ideal for a transport system. And trolley buses can carry more then a standard bus, even more if it is a double decker trolley bus, and even better, no tracks to lay, more routes available and a clean, reliable form of transportation. Sorry if yeer all sick of listening to me, or reading me whatever, but we really need more varieties of transport in Cork.

@A-ha wrote:

I think the last thing that should be brought into the city is a light rail network. Trams would be ideal for the suburbs but look at all the trouble the Luas caused. Drilling, digging and more noise in our newly renovated city centre isn’t very ideal for a transport system. And trolley buses can carry more then a standard bus, even more if it is a double decker trolley bus, and even better, no tracks to lay, more routes available and a clean, reliable form of transportation. Sorry if yeer all sick of listening to me, or reading me whatever, but we really need more varieties of transport in Cork.

There is an alternative that I saw was being trialled (in France I think). It was a trolley bus that charged a battery that could carry it for up to 20km. It meant that the bus wasn’t restricted to where there were cables and it also meant that unsightly cables could be kept out of sensitive areas.

Sounds like a good idea jungle, at least it would get dirty diesel buses outta the city centre. 😉

lex, I have to say that I like your idea of a pedestrianised city centre, it’s so continental. And the docklands is a great place to start for building a new public transport system. London also has big plans for trolleybuses going from the south suburbs directly to the north suburbs with stops along the way at tube stations. Here is a picture of one of the trolleybuses that will be rolled out in London over the coming months and years.

As you can see, the over head cable’s aren’t all that big. Can’t you just see it gliding down Patrick St. and across the Lee?

Interesting link courtesy of The People’s Republic of Cork website on an underground system for Cork. It’s a long way off, but none the less interesting. http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/images/articles/Subway/SubwayBig.gif
Oh, and don’t forget to click on the enlarge button when you open the link. 😀

good evening all.i haven’t posted in a while, I’m sure I was missed?

I believe the springmount project was designed by those multi talented,gifted, handsome architects pat and tony of kiosk.

its unfortunate as the scheme started out with 65 units.the planning received was for 47!
that is 12 units per acre?

the appeal is signed by none other than .joe o brien.mr.o brien has done some great work in getting the coco to increase densities.
maybe he’s had a change of heart and will try to reverse all the great work he has done for the construction industry durring his distinguished career.
the design is of a very high standard I think.

maybe its a case of the gamekeeper becoming the poacher?

is mr. o brien still in the cif.

lex, will you be able to post some pics. of the marina planned for kinsale later on in the week? please and thx 🙂

Did anyone see the article in the Independent yesterday regarding Cork airport and Ryanair?? Ryanair have expressed an interest in using the old terminal building as a low cost hub when the new one is up and running. Hopefully the airport authorities and Ryanair might be able to iron something out, it would be great for Cork!

First of all I really hope that Ryanair can strike a deal with Cork airport authority cos its a pity that you have to go out of shannon for the cheap flights plus it would have a great knock on affect for tourism in the region.

Has anyone heard about a so called renovation of Mallow railway station by a UK company I think they are doing a number of stations throughout the country.

On a final point does anybody else here ever wonder how they are going to fill these offices and retail units that are being proposed. At the moment you have a lot of buildings Idle look at patrick st, the roundy on cornmarket st, bachelors on the quay and the places next door next to the GATE cinema, the new building on georges quay Trinity House, the office building in Angelsea St where Anglo Irish Bank is, Owen O’Callaghans new building on Lavitts Quay, The numerous places on the new Mallow road and on the watercourse road, Wilton shopping centre has a few spots, the old tsb in wilton and many more I just worry that there is going to be a lot of derelict places around our city before were finished.

@securityman wrote:

First of all I really hope that Ryanair can strike a deal with Cork airport authority cos its a pity that you have to go out of shannon for the cheap flights plus it would have a great knock on affect for tourism in the region.

Has anyone heard about a so called renovation of Mallow railway station by a UK company I think they are doing a number of stations throughout the country.

On a final point does anybody else here ever wonder how they are going to fill these offices and retail units that are being proposed. At the moment you have a lot of buildings Idle look at patrick st, the roundy on cornmarket st, bachelors on the quay and the places next door next to the GATE cinema, the new building on georges quay Trinity House, the office building in Angelsea St where Anglo Irish Bank is, Owen O’Callaghans new building on Lavitts Quay, The numerous places on the new Mallow road and on the watercourse road, Wilton shopping centre has a few spots, the old tsb in wilton and many more I just worry that there is going to be a lot of derelict places around our city before were finished.

It’s a very good point Securityman, but I suppose from the developers point of view there are a lot of housing units coming on line in the next couple of years, this is where the “critical mass” kicks in, commercial feeds off residential and vise versa…

I would be worried if we weren’t getting high densities in the city center, but fortunately our friends in the City Council have finally grasped the concept of reverse urbanisation. A city cannot and indeed won’t survive without a “critical mass” population.

A recent trip to Detroit is proof of this, a budy said I wouldn’t belive it and he was right, it is actually unbelievable to see such a great city and it’s derelict. I admit they have gang problems, decline in motor industry etc., but the city center is practically vacant, so there is no incentive for business, it’s definetly not a case of “if you build it they will come”.

An amazing place Detriot, scarey by day, i wasn’t brave enough by night!!! Well worth a visit if your in that neck of the woods…

Getting back to our city, you may have noted in that many retail spaces have struggled, especially the leisure sector, this should hopefully be reversed by an increase in footfall population. A cheaper pint might help, but thats an argument for my puplican friends… :rolleyes:

Nightlife in Dublin has never been better, even with the scarey thought of buying a round for five people…

Thanks for the good replies lads and I suppose your right on a lot of the issues. As for the Wilton SC Lex did I hear a while back that BT 2 wanted to move in there? A good move for them would be to remove the supervalue as I think Tesco want to happen and make a bigger roches stores or BT 2 like Patrick St. As it is I think Wiltin has a lot of good shops and other services within the centre to make it top of the pile.

Anyone know if Tesco has received planning permission for a new store in Kanturk yet?

Lexington

any chance you could look into the feasibility of the old Cork airport terminal being retained for low-cost use? It’s unlikely it will ever happen but one of the first reactions on another board was “well the old terminal’s PP expires when the new one is commissioned” – odd then that the Airport Authority chairman wouldn’t immediately rule it out.

thanks

I think the idea of Ryanair operating from the old terminal would be a good idea and great for the city but am i the only one concerned at how this may impact on the new terminal and the considerable investment that has been made on it??

as for Wilton, as a nearby resident i would have some concerns at how any expansion would impact on what is already one of the most heavily trafficked regions of the city. Also with mahonpoint and the new shopping centre in Ballincolllig I would think there is a significant presence of new centres in the south region. Of course it would be handy for me to pop up to every morning but i’m trying to think of it in a holistic sense.

Thank you also for the photographs of the regional hospital. I had not seen these yet. Have you any idea when construction will begin?

I would also add to Lex’s comments about Cork’s image… It is highly important that Cork is seen as a serious location for any business to operate, there are two aspects to this the first being a sustained redevelopment of the City areas to increase density in both commercial space and more importantly residential space. I would think that the drive from Cork Airport, when completed is relatively clean and impressive, until you actually hit the city. The city dump is well disguised, the Blackash facility always impresses and the new flyover at the magic roundabout will be mind blowing!!!

I would see the second key point being the expansion of the, in my view extraordinary limited city boundaries. If the city is to provide decent services it need cash. It’s that simple. I must admit I pay approx €1600 for a ~550 sq ft office in town, thats crazy, but understandable given the shallow pockets of the city when compared to thier greedy neighbours in the County Council.

I must admit to being compared to Statler and Waldorf for my constant cribing about the general state of the city center.

😡 The general lack of bins (ridiculous), count them its mad, there are more bins on Main Street Mallow than Oliver Plunkett Street. Patrick street is filthy, I think this might be an Irish problem though, but until littering is taken seriously in this country people will have no respect for thier surroundings. Why do litter wardens only seem to tackle sloppy business owners and not the slobs who simply drop litter allover our lovely main street…

😡 The lack of commitment to the pedestrianisation of Oliver Plunkett Street and surrounding areas (mind boggling, we could have an area that would surpass Grafton Street or Oxford Street!!!). I believe there has recently been a decision made to pedstrianise Princess Street between the hours of 11am and 5pm!! Thats right for six hours a day. Would somebody please explain this to me as I laughed out loud when I heard this. Which was followed by the usual “go back to Dublin ya Jackeen” comments muttered by my friends. I love it…

😡 Derelict buildings are my pet hate. If some pratt is hoarding a derelict / semi derelict building in a key location waiting for a kings ransom it should be taken from them at market value less a “greedy bastard tax” at 95% donated to the City coffers. These are the people who are stiffling progress in Cork, not the planners!! I think this is the most annoying thing about buying property here, you have to be almost sneaky in your approaches for fear of being branded a golden goose. It’s hard enough to aquire a decent land mass anywhere in the short term due to the crazy boundaries involved in most inner city properties, but when one person decides to hold out!!! Pass me my Valium…

😡 The river, the beautiful Lee, the most under valued and developed resource in the city. As Lex says give use boardwalks, water buses, Viking tours etc…. Again to be fair to the City, they definetly need more rates for thier budget, none of these things come free…

😡 Telecoms people… I think were all in agreement here. Finish a road, dig it up, lay cable, back fill it and watch it fall apart!!

😡 Princes Street / Southmall junction, I’ve counted four times now that this has been dug up and reconcreted, dont mention the footpath on Marlboro Street. This level of incompetence would not be tollerated on a private site!!!

:rolleyes: The roads, in Berties words “A lot done, a lot more to do”, they have made genuine and impressive efforts here, I must commend the roads department, damb it!!!

Rant over, the Valium is taking effect now, fluffy white clouds… fluffy white clouds… fluffy white clouds… fluffy white clouds… fluffy white clouds… fluffy white clouds… 😀

This is so wierd, the last few days, the only posts I’ve been reading were my own….. I miss one day and suddenly the forum is jammers with new messages. Where have ye all been at??? lol. Anyways, I dont think that the city bounderies should be extended just yet, the local councils know whats best for the local area, and not just one big corporation dictating what goes where and when in an area unknown to themselves. On the other hand, it has very attractive and good points going for it, the main thing being that Douglas and Little Island etc. are all suburbs of Cork, yet are classed as part of the county as opposed to the city. The population of Cork City is 124,000, however, this does not include the suburbs, which shape and form Cork as it is today. The population of Cork City including the suburbs if the bouderies were extended would be in and around 200,000, thus almost doubles the size of the “city”. Also I heard ages ago that Midleton was to apply to extend it’s bounderies, making it a city bigger then both Galway and Waterford, and also making the County of Cork the only Irish county with more then one city. But this is pointless, now that Midleton it’s self has become more and more of a suburb/satellite town of Cork. Also, I was so delighted to read about Ryanair’s plans or whatever you want to call it about using the old terminal building in the airport (presumably it’s gonna be called Terminal 1??? hmm, how fancy) as a low-cost hub for the Cork region, I deteste Aer Lingus’ “Only €9.99 one way ex. taxes of €112.50”, it’s so rubbish, I wouldn’t fly with them to save me life and I’d be really greatful if anyone can get me a link on where to read the article on the internet, I tried looking but my head and big words don’t match. Hope ye all had a good break over the long week-end/summer holidays, where-ever it was ye all were. Ohh, and if anyone knows if the millionaire woman in Limerick has a daughter, give us a ring, it seems like a nice family to marry into, eh? Cah ching €€$$££ :rolleyes:

Also, me thinks that if BT2 opened in the former Iárrnrod Eirean thingy office at the top of Patrick St. it would do well (considering on the size of the place, I was never in there) but it’s been vacant for ages. Sorry about Irish spelling, but I’m not from a gaeltacth.

😀 A-ha , Midleton another city within cork……. 😮
That is a load of baloney….
It has a population less than 10,000 (including boundaries environs)
And anyway Mallow is bigger , its so stupid to think Midelton is a city, 😮

A Population centre of at least 30,000 is recogised as a City in Ireland , In European standards itrs 50,000 minimum 🙂

Anyway just wanted to get that straight. 😀
As for Cork city- I think the boundary extenion should go ahead , it has more reasons and less inhibitation than to go against it ,

That building is totally fantastic, it just shows that a building doesn’t have to be tall to make an impact on the city landscape. Do we know what restaurants/shops will occupy the new terminal at the airport, I heard talks of WH Smith and O’ Briens Sandwich Bar making a presence at the airport, has anyone else heard of this. Also I read plans of a railway line connecting Shannon Airport to the main Limerick-Ennis line. I would have thought connecting Dublin to a railway line of some sort would have been a first priority.
Ohh and dave123, a boundary extension of that size in Midleton would make it have a population in excess of 35,000. I know it’s hard to believe, but they were the facts and figures I heard. In saying that, Carrigtohill would become a suburb of Midleton, which is projected to have a population of 15,000 by 2015. When you add the other environs of Midleton, it wouldn’t be hard to come up with 35,000

@dave123 wrote:

😀 A-ha , Midleton another city within cork……. 😮
That is a load of baloney….
It has a population less than 10,000 (including boundaries environs)
And anyway Mallow is bigger , its so stupid to think Midelton is a city, 😮

A Population centre of at least 30,000 is recogised as a City in Ireland , In European standards itrs 50,000 minimum 🙂

Anyway just wanted to get that straight. 😀
As for Cork city- I think the boundary extenion should go ahead , it has more reasons and less inhibitation than to go against it ,

hey stupid is a strong word…sure we all make mistakes, but i still tell my son i love him. 😀

midelton aint no city but if it keeps goin the way it is…in a coupla years, who knows??? anyway, ballincollig is bigger than either mallow or midelton with a projected pop. of 40000 for 2010 (or 2018 cant remember which!) but then again like glanmire i kinda consider ballincollig as a suburb anyway at this stage. midelton to cork is kinda like what bray is to dublin.

great news bout paul kennys building. looks great! well done to the lads over at wilson. lets just hope it becomes a reality.

im gettin all tingly and its not just because ive been sitting on my leg for half the day its cos a bud of mine with a certain practice has been quietly telling me the sca on a certain project involving a certain crown from malla! dunno how advanced it tis but i’ll be lookin forward to it. anyway im off to do whatever it is i do. bye!

Who still says baloney? I mean, come on like! Anyways, as I was talking about Carrigtwohill, it just clicked, but aren’t they supposed to be building a condom factory in the IDA park. It’s no joke, I actually read it a few weeks back, but heard nothing of it since. Can anyone gimmy an update on it, big employment opportunities to be had! 🙂

@A-ha wrote:

Who still says baloney?

baloney salesmen???

anyway as for the condom factory as exciting as the prospect of a condom manufacturer in cork is (perhaps to compliment the manufacture of viagra in pfizers not far away) – arent there better topics of discussion than that?? that is unless the building housing the facility is shaped like a condom itself, now thats interesting architecture…and i think norman foster already gave it a shot in london! 😉

between viagra, condoms and diaphragms, corks got the whole gig wrapped up! (no pun intended) the city is the source/cause and prevention to a successful pregnancy it would seem. 😀

if your looking to get a job in the factory, as an electronic tester???. can i suggest checking it out with adecco first! :p job prospects are good with condom manufacturers at least 97% of the time.

god you crazy college kids crack me up! go on ya scamp ya! hehe

Who says I’m in college??? Ohh, now I feel all sophisticated and such. And I didn’t mean me when I said the whole job in the local condom factory thing. I meant the local community in general. Smart thinking with the Norman Foster pun, I would never have thought of it, although, the building would stick in my head more if it was compared to a condom rather then a gherkin. I better not talk about such things on a forum where children may read it. Forgive me. 🙁 And also, yes there are better topics of discussion, but I’m all out. You’ll have to tell lexington to stop living in the real world and come to Cyberville more often. He is like our local newspaper.

your profile says occupation = student. i had that job once too and man was i damn good at it. i was diligent about it – up every morning at 12pm, in for a nice additional sleep at my lecture at around 1pm (usually about an hour), then skipped the rest of the lectures to go drinking til about 3am where id end up back in bed with some girl called rodney…too bad i got fired into a real job! i was voted most likely to become a politician!….now what do i do, i design things! oooo! big whoop! hehe.

come to cyberville MORE often??? god thats a scary thought! he seems to practically have a tent set up on his modem. no disrespek bruv! peace out! but seriously tis a mighty good thing, i come here more often than i read the paper (cos usually and no offence to the good people at the irish times, indo and stuff) this is more fun!

im really looking forward to horgans qy. i hear omp have got a hand in that one, or am i wrong? castlelands construction seem to be planning something big and im freakin out waiting to hear what theyve lined up. ooo the anticipation. lex any input??? (ignoring my above comments 😉 )

….at least she told me her name was rodney!!!!

Occupation…. I never heard the word before I signed up to Archiseek, but I had to put in something, ohh I’m so rebelious. Your college years sound so interesting, you should write those things down, they might be worth money some day. And I have to say that you make me laugh so so much. Your really funny. Maybe you should ditch your design job and take up being a full time comedian. I’m still smiling from you last post, lol. But I do agree pier39, lex puts in more then he gets out of this website! Gawd look at the time. I better go, I’m bidding on a pair of sunglasses on eBay. Nite Nite all. 😎

The Ford site is 11 acres according to your last post on it. Clearly a site that big and in such a prominent location will require big imagination and big pockets. What developer do ya think could be up for taking such a project on????

I’d say the big want will be waterfront sites but Fords site seems pretty exciting too.

Just as a matter of clarity, the details regarding square footage of Paul Kenny’s development on Saint Patrick’s Quay are more accurate in post #191 than in today’s Irish Examiner. Those approximations concern the square footage of only one sectiion of the development.

Interesting site, keep up the good work.

POM
Cork

What would be the most likely thing to be put there if the area is redeveloped, apartments? On a scale of such size in a prime location of the city, money is to be made. But I can’t see developers rushing to the opportunity, it’s on a very big scale, who would be willing to take it on?

I never knew that the CIE area on Horgans Quay was so big…. at most I would have said 10acres, 17 was at the other end of the line.

the tedcastles scheme that i saw looked like a communist tool-shed!!! think a pic of it was posted in the other look at the state of cork thread. but thankfully i hear its not the final design and they have been talkin with the council about other plans. theres my little insightful input.

anyone know how event centre plans for the showgrounds are proceeding? its been a while since we heard anything on it and i figure with manor park hoping to lodge plans in october the pressure will be on the rivals to get something in.

by the way got this great email the other day called “auctioneer lexicon revealed” and thought i might share some of the hidden meanings our good friends in the estate agents offices seem to use in their daily lingo.

cosy = small, cramped, ceiling a foot lower than the average human height.
handyman’s dream = at least 2 of its walls are still standing
rustic = see above
ideal first step on the property ladder or starter home = young people are so gullible
up and coming area = border up your windows with reinforced steel
within a stone’s throw… = using a catapult and a jet-pack
partially renovated = brand new 40w bulb in the kitchen
sought after = blank cheques only
easy access = new flyover being constructed directly over the house

i thought it was funny! and before anyone gets offended it came from an auctioneer so relax! hehe 🙂

hehehehe, lol. It’s funny cos it’s true. 😀

I’ve been out of the country for the last two months but I keep up to date with forum almost religously. What I am most excited about in the Cork Area is the Ballincollig Town Centre development. The shopping centre is due to come on stream in October, yet there has been very little information forthcoming about it. This would lead me to believe that maybe there is some trouble in filling all the 34 units. This is just my assumption but what does anyone else think? Can Ballincollig become a higher order retail centre?

It’s such a shame that Dunnes is the anchor tenant in Ballincollig, like there aren’t enough in Cork already. Do you have a last of the tenants that have secured or that are interested in opening in the shopping centre?

I wish I too could say lexington, that I need a new suspension, but I haven’t got a car yet. Anyways, they’ve been saying that for ages about doing up the Dunnes on Patrick St. but I still don’t go in there, for the simple reason, it’s worse then the one in Ballyvolane. Well, almost anyway!

Thanks for the info and images Lexington. I agree that this centre will probably serve the area quiet well, and its town centre setting could make it an attractive area to shop in. I really do hope OFC efforts at creating a new town centre work out, it would show that there is a definate alternative to the enclosed suburban mall, surrounded by blocks and blocks of apartments. The mixture of the shopping centre and the retail/commercial streets provides the balance between public and private spaces. OFC have done a good job of creating a pleasant and aspirational image of what the town can be, besides the tacky Signage.
Besides Dunnes Stores and Easons, I am aware that O’briens is set to open and I know Carrig Donn is too. I suppose when the full list is released we will know for certain.

Has anyone been to the shopping centre in Dungarvan? I went a few weeks back, just to see what it was like. I was so unimpressed it wasn’t even funny. The building is an architectural disaster, looks more like a big pre-fab rather then a shopping centre, and the shops ain’t great either. Small choice of stores, only a Dunnes and Sasha keeping the whole place together. 🙁

As has been mentioned, the Glucksman Gallery is up for the prestigous Stirling Prize in the UK.
You can cast your vote for the Gallery (or any of the other nominated buildings) at the link below to the BBC website.

The Glucksman is currently in second place and it would be nice to see Cork Arcitecture honoured across the water- in this of all years. So, you’ve no excuse, GET VOTING and tell your friends to do the same.

Click here to vote

@Radioactiveman wrote:

As has been mentioned, the Glucksman Gallery is up for the prestigous Stirling Prize in the UK.
You can cast your vote for the Gallery (or any of the other nominated buildings) at the link below to the BBC website.

The Glucksman is currently in second place and it would be nice to see Cork Arcitecture honoured across the water- in this of all years. So, you’ve no excuse, GET VOTING and tell your friends to do the same.

Click here to vote

Its now in the lead!!

@lisam wrote:

Its now in the lead!!

Woohoo!!

Anybody have anynews on how ABP are leaning as regards Frinailla’s Lady’s Well?

On the subject of Watercourse Road, the press keep mentioning a 20 million Euro Office development there which is in the running for the Revenue re-location (although less so I guess, owing to the news last week).
I’ve still not worked out where exactly they are refering too, despite noble attempts by Lexington to enlighten me. Can anybody shed some light on the subject?

Have you not seen the 9 storey office development currently in construction alongside the blackpool retail park and sc?

@mickeydocs wrote:

Have you not seen the 9 storey office development currently in construction alongside the blackpool retail park and sc?

Yes i have mickey but this is

(a) Not on Watercourse Road, and

(b) mentioned in the same articles as an alternative to the Watercourse road site.

Either the press reports are mistaken, or there is another site on Watercourse road capable of housing the tax office!

Update:
Thanks Lex, I’ve got the general area sorted now alright, but I think most people would call that the New Mallow Road and not Watercourse Road. Is the office development on the city or Mallow side of the apartments?

Would I be right in saying that the development you are on about on the watercourse road is where the 147 snooker club was and trotters second hand shop next to the garda station as far as I know all that part of the street is being redeveloped.

@securityman wrote:

Would I be right in saying that the development you are on about on the watercourse road is where the 147 snooker club was and trotters second hand shop next to the garda station as far as I know all that part of the street is being redeveloped.

147/trotters/mac’s meat is all part of a proposed development by Frinailla Ltd. (called LadysWell) which recieved permission from CCC but was appealled to ABP with a (favourable??) decision due mid August. Builders/engineers have already been onsite marking out.

The Sean Muillean/ Office development is almost parrallel but on the Blackpool Bypass/ New Mallow Road- big red brick things, almost complete.

🙂 Aaaahh, I love it when I get to start a new page 🙂

Heya City of Cork forum. Ok, I’ll just ask in here since I got no reply in the Fermoy bypass forum, but has anyone else heard of a by pass being built in Castlematyr? If anyone can give me some facts and figures, knock yeer selves out! Thx. 😉

Obviously developing in the docklands is something of a status coup for development companies operating in Cork but what i’m curious about is which development company is going to be the one the steps forward and develops THE ‘jawdropper’ the one that stands out above all others. One would think one of the cork boys would be the one willing to put the jewel in the crown of its own backyard.

It’s good to hear of such enthusiasm for the south docks area.

Did anyone actually hear confirmation regarding the semi-pedestrianisation (phew!!) of Princes Street, or is this another chinese whisper….

I was in Galway this weekend (intentional), and all I can say is WOW, if we had the same level of commitment to tourism / shoppers / pedestrians we would be laughing as a real destination…. Not one gaurd in sight, as opposed to urs insisting all street furniture be removed by our cafes /bars as early as nine o’clock… Friggin’ police county… (Sorry just got two points today!!!) 😡

By the way I hope were not all in for a little pasting in the next couple of weeks on Rip Off Republic… It made very interesting viewing, he certainly has a point about stamp duty and VAT…

Just coming back to an earlier post Harvey Norman are moving into the old Woodies site in Kinsale road so thats interesting that they didnt go into little island, blackpool or mahon considering the rest of their stores are in retail parks and this one is on its own but this must be good news for woodies as there will be two major stores in the area along with DPL, Brooks, Irish International and Cork Builders. I also believe that Turners cross motors are building a new showroom as well.

@lexington wrote:

🙂 Corbett Bros. are seeking to lodge an application for a 22-unit apartment development over basement car-park with CCC soon. The 3-storey development is destined for Carmelite Place, off the Western Road and is designed by James Leahy & Associates. The site was bought quietly earlier this year from vendor Dermot O’Keefe, who had previously sought permission for a 4-storey, 20-unit student apartment development over basement car-park (designed by PRC Architects) and was refused on appeal. As part of the project, the 6-terraced houses at Carmelite Place, and Carmelite Stores, will be demolished.

It’s a terrible indication of the state of our planning controls that 6 well built, decent family homes can be bought up, left to rot and demolished like this. I followed the previous application with interest. It was a substandard design for the location.
The fact remains though that there is no reason for demolition of these properties. The terrace as a whole represents a transition from the built up student accomodation area near college to the more permanent residential areas of Sunday’s Well. 😡

Incidently, i probably shouldn’t be saying this given my stance on their demolition BUT, if they were to be demolished I’m surprised AIB next door didnt come on board to develop a larger scale mixed use development with the bank on the ground floor.

For those of you following the progress at the airport, I managed to get a nice image of some Aer Lingus and Servisair trucks with a glimpse of the new terminal in the background…

@lexington wrote:

Personally, I’m not really put out by the height when considered in an empirical context. The general height of buildings under development is not far off this project – and the prospect of further development at the adjoining Top Car site to the north and speculative redevelopment of the Cork Farm Centre (HSE offices) to the south, not forgetting Frinailla’s other plans to at Dennehy’s Cross. I think this route can accommodate such buildings but I would generally feel that any development approaching the residential areas near Dennehy’s Cross must be toned down. This height of building at this location would be unsuitable. The big thing with Robert White’s plans for a student development at the site, in a former application of 100-bedroom over 17-apartments at 5-storeys was indeed overshadowing. My memory of this application is not as precise as I’d like it to be, but if I remember correctly, the project exhibited a roof garden which allowed for overlooking back onto residencies at Ashbrook and Orchard Road. As far as I know, any terraces/balconies in the subject development are generally west facing onto Victoria Cross Road. In the 2003 application 2 units at the 4th floor were removed indeed from Kevin O’Keefe’s design – I personally feel the Frinailla design is a little better and though it peaks on 7-storeys, it doesn’t do so to any excessive effect. The adjoining development prospects at Top Car and Cork Farm Centre were not speculated at the time of the 2003 application, neither was the Justin Canty site now under development by Aras Developments. In that context, the Robert White plan was very imposing and did standout. I would posit that planners will address the Frinailla plan with a strategic outlook. As for the commercial unit, I don’t know what the intended usage is for sure beyond speculation. What are your own feelings on the design?

Hi there again. Thanks for your opinion recently on the Frinailla planning app. at Victoria Cross – I was away since and never got a chance to reply until now. I took a drive around the area – making this area in and around County Hall my summer study – and I have to say that I am really very divided with regard to how the area is shaping up. The Victoria Mills apartments look dire – just my opinion – but by God, the whole area from there upward towards Dennehy’s cross is under development. There are quite a lot of established residential dwellings nearby such as across from old Statoil station, Orchard Road and The Grove (Orchard Road), and then further up you have the homes on Model Farm Road and Wilton Road, There’s going to be a whole lot of people on the move there once college starts and this will increase over the next couple of years by the looks of things. Personally, I still think that the proposed Frinailla structure is too high and I’m not overly gone on the design either. But that’s just me, I wouldn’t particularly like the design of Farranlea Hall across from the Farm centre either, although the site works much better. The Frinailla site is very small and exiting could be dodgy, particularly if going in a northerly direction (probably would not be allowed). Still don’t know what the commercial unit is for – would prob guess some sort of shop or restaurant/cafe?? But the big question in my mind is regarding the future – what happens if the apartments in general don’t occupy fully? Rumour suggests that Victoria Mills has never filled completely during term-time – Can students afford this type of living? Fellow students tell me that rented houses are still cheaper and better craic. I still feel that ther area has had too many large apartment blocks constructed in a small general area. Personally, I feel that Frinailla won’t get the 6-7 proposed development, although CCC will possibly grant it or something not far off, but I wonder if Pleanala will uphold this, if it goes that far? Sorry for being so long winded. ALSO, I would love to see plans of the new proposed development near AIB at Victoria Cross/Western Road, How big is this site? Thanks very much. This site is unreal for gathering information – fantastic.

@lexington wrote:

Whoa – check out the rims on that baby! 😀

Thanks jungle – how do you feel about it’s look in the flesh? (Well flesh in the making).

From the outside it looks like so many other airports I’ve seen the world over. It’s not a bad design, but there is little originality.

I can’t imagine that the inside will show any hugely original touches either, but as long as it cleans up the situation where 8 flights are trying to use 2 baggage belts at 9pm on a Friday evening I’ll be pretty happy as one of the airport’s most regular users.

Cork Heritage Open Day will see nearly 30 of Cork’s most fascinating buildings many of which have never been by the public before, open their doors free of charge for one day only on Saturday September the 10th 2005. The Lord Mayor Councillor Deirdre Clune, will open this exciting event at 9.30 a.m. by visiting the historic home of the Lord Mayor of Cork at the Mercy Hospital Mansion House.
Cork Heritage Open Day is a unique event which will be held on Saturday the 10 th of September 2005, celebrating the amazing architecture and history of the Built Heritage in the Cork City Region.
Cork’s Built Heritage tells the tale of wars and peace, learning and praying, high living and humble beginnings through buildings such as Collins Barracks, Blackrock Castle, The Life time Lab, The Unitarian Church, The Clarion Hotel Penthouse and Frank O Connor House to mention a few.
Many of these breathtaking buildings have never been open to the public in this manner before and are relatively unknown to visitors and the citizens of Cork. Cork Heritage Open Day invites you to explore Cork’s hidden treasures and enjoy the unique story of Cork’s Built Heritage.

http://www.corkheritageopenday.ie

wow jungle, impressive picture. how did you manage to get so close? 🙂

@A-ha wrote:

wow jungle, impressive picture. how did you manage to get so close? 🙂

It was taken from my camera phone when I was boarding a flight to Amsterdam.

@lexington wrote:

😎 Howard Holdings have been taken to appeal by David Matthews (Matthews Centre) regarding their plans for a new 7-storey Comfort Inn at No.16 Lavitts Quay, design by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli. The €20m project was recently greenlit by CCC – images are featured of the development earlier in this thread, which I will try and get back up for this post later tonight. The project, which was subject to substantial revisions, features 7-storeys to the rear of No.16 Lavitts Quay (which will be incoprorated for cafe and office use), a reatil unit, basement parking and just under 114 rooms (following CCC conditions).

As well as being a god awful design, this Hotel will block out one of the very few views on Shandon from St. Patrick Street.
Next time you’re outside River Island look straight up Maylor Street – its pretty impressive.
I know the Development Plan protects views of listed buildings so thats another reason why i’d support David Matthews appeal.

BMW, Leipzig
7.43%
Lewis Glucksman Gallery, Cork
33.06%
Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh
17.62%
McLaren Centre, Woking
25.88%
Jubilee Library, Brighton
9.16%
Fawood Children’s Centre, Harlesden
6.86%

17622 Votes Cast

@lexington wrote:

😎

🙂 Atlas Developments (a Noel O’Flynn enterprise) has been greenlit for a noteworthy light industrial/business proposal along the Old Mallow Road. 21 units are to be constructed over 3 floors and a 54-space basement car-park. The building will equal 2292sq m in floor space. Niall Fitzsimons were Consulting Engineers on the scheme,
.

Is this a seperate building to the warehouse being built at the moment on the old mallow road next door to Flemings development for Blackpool Bowl & Leisure

@Radioactiveman wrote:

AIB at the other end of the street (adjacent to Waterstones) will close when this one opens. This will leave another vacant store on the Street! Unlike some of the others though, this is of a more attractive size for retailers i’d imagine.

I can see that being demolished and something new built there. A store won’t easily go into an old bank. Also, (from memory) a lot of the building is only one storey.

@jungle wrote:

I can see that being demolished and something new built there. A store won’t easily go into an old bank. Also, (from memory) a lot of the building is only one storey.

How about a bar?? Doubt if they would allow it on Patrick’s St though!

@jungle wrote:

I can see that being demolished and something new built there. A store won’t easily go into an old bank. Also, (from memory) a lot of the building is only one storey.

I think you’re confusing the AIB Bank with the Bank of Ireland nearby- this was refurbished about 3 years ago.
There is no chance of AIB being demolished it is almost definately a listed building.

Here it is:

Seems a shame if this was to turn into another monsoon or some other foreign fashion shop.

Sorry for this little aside- but it is the silly season after all! 🙂

A while back, someone posted a message about a crematorium being built on Howbouline island? Anyone got some updates on this? And securityman, any idea when Harvey Norman are due to open it’s doors to the public?? I expect it will create a huge amount of competion between both PC World and Soundstore.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

I think you’re confusing the AIB Bank with the Bank of Ireland nearby- this was refurbished about 3 years ago.

My mistake. You are correct.

My excuse is that I bank with Ulster Bank and don’t need to know which is which 😀

@A-ha wrote:

A while back, someone posted a message about a crematorium being built on Howbouline island? Anyone got some updates on this? And securityman, any idea when Harvey Norman are due to open it’s doors to the public?? I expect it will create a huge amount of competion between both PC World and Soundstore.

Id say by October is the plan, they will bring major competition to the area considering that pc world are moving into Mahon aswell. Id say you could see someone else of that nature moving into the second phase of Blackpool when its open aswell. Anyway its all good for the consumer in Cork.

Thx securityman, I heard Dixons are keeping an eye on a Cork location, but I believe more of a city centre property, Acadamy St. or the Coal Quay perhaps? And for anyone in the know, what about the crematorium?? 😉

Oh my buddah, I love a sense of humour, but I am being totally serious. I really need some information on it and can’t get any on the web, I dont even know if I’m spelling the name of the island correctly! Oh, and there was one supposed to be built in Ovens a few years back (don’t even get me started on the ironic side of it), but the plans fell through. 🙁

T&C partnership have been given permission by CCC for the complete demolition of what remains of the old Capuchin Church on Blackmore lane (which the company illegally demolished last year).
Both the company involved and Cork City Council should be ashamed of themselves.

It seems it is now a free-for-all.

If anybody wants me i’ll be up at St.Finbarres Cathedral with my wrecking ball — I fancy some student apartments and lets face it, who’s going to stop me??

I know we are all sick of looking at this picture, but what type of metal will the pillars be made out of in front of the airport. Everyone takes the piss out of the Spire because it’s so dirty. I hope this wont be the case in our ass smacking brand new terminal! 😀

@lexington wrote:

🙂 You may remember I promised details on a docklands project not so long ago – well I’m reliably informed that the project will now seek planning.

Destined for the Nat Ross premises along the Monahan Road, in the South Docklands, Niall & Sheila Doris (owners of the Beverly Smyth Group – which owns Nat Ross) are seeking permission to construct 104 residential units and 3567sq m of business/technology facilities over a large basement car-parking facility. A creche will also be included in the development, valued at approx. €50m. The architects for the project are SDA O’Flynn, now based along Skehard Road – the layout of the proposal will form 5 linked buildings ranging in height between 4, 7 and 10 storeys. I understand that 5 2-storey terraced houses will also be included in the plan.

The project, along with McCarthy Developments’ plan for a new 8-storey office building (designed by Murray O’Laoire) along Centre Park Road, issue the first concrete steps in the redevelopment of Cork’s South Docklands.

A decision on the development is expected for the 6th October 2005.

Images soon.

also what of the western star, or the star, to its alumni. many a pleasant evening spent i there – is it being torn apart for some unexciting medical plan? what a shame. 🙁

Does no-body not care about my crematorium? Come on, someone out there must know at least a teeney weeney bit of information on it! I wont let the subject go that easily. And the idea of connecting all the shopping centres sounds so odd for Cork. It’s like a giant step into the future or something. It’s so continental. :p

@A-ha wrote:

Does no-body not care about my crematorium? :p

As far as i know, the crematorium is planned for Rocky Island in Cork Harbour. This is surprise surprise, a small rocky outcrop between the mainland (at ringaskiddy) and Haulbowline (containing the former Irish Steel site and Irish Naval Headquarters).
As for who’s behind it, im not sure.

It’ll be interesting to see what becomes of the Irish ISPAT site after the eventual clean up. Is it State property now?

Great news too about Beasly Street/ Parnell Place. Lets hope no more time is wasted. Those protected facades are looking weaker and weaker every week.[/QUOTE]

Nice to see alot of activity on Parnell Street… it has been ignored for far too long.

It’s worth taking a look at the Cornmarket Street Area Development Plan on the CCC website for some interesting insights into the way people are thinking about the future development of the area.
In particular, it deals in depth with the Guys site, The Loft site and the Kyrls Quay sites (the subject of a recent competition).

Some interesting visuals from the plan are set out below:

Sites for development in the area:

A possible park at the Northern end of the area:

The improved street market:

Thanks for that information. I knew someone would give me something in time. Rocky Island…. and here’s me thinking that it was on Haulbowline Island (I knew I was spelling it wrong). Thanks again.

Affordable Housing
Does anyone have any information regarding the way that Part V of the Planning and Development Act is being enforced by CCC. According to the Dept of Enviroment statistics they have only acquired 6 housing units and no land under it during the last 4 years even though they state that this is their preference. Instead in all other cases they are taking money and the amounts seem very small. What is the reason for this policy given that there are 750 on the affordable housing waiting list and the Dublin authorities are doing the opposite i.e they are requiring developers to hand over housing. Are they trading affordable housing for favours in other areas or is there some other explanation?

All I can say about the Rockfell plan is that I’m impressed (from what’s posted anyway). I hadn’t seen much on this other than the initial plans. A tremendous improvement. Hopefully it’ll materialise in the flesh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucholsky
Affordable Housing
Does anyone have any information regarding the way that Part V of the Planning and Development Act is being enforced by CCC. According to the Dept of Enviroment statistics they have only acquired 6 housing units and no land under it during the last 4 years even though they state that this is their preference. Instead in all other cases they are taking money and the amounts seem very small. What is the reason for this policy given that there are 750 on the affordable housing waiting list and the Dublin authorities are doing the opposite i.e they are requiring developers to hand over housing. Are they trading affordable housing for favours in other areas or is there some other explanation?

CCC have been active in a number of Section V provisions. A number of developments, including those by O’Brien & O’Flynn, and excess-provision schemes by Coleman Brothers/Fleming Construction, McInerney and Barry Supple/Paul Montgomery are currently catering for Affordable/Social needs – combined, the units should make available in excess of 350 high-quality units for these such requirements. I’m not familiar with the DoE figures, perhaps you could post them or offer a link to the details. The total social/affordable list held by CCC is actually in excess of 4,000. It is expected the forthcoming application by Manor Park Homes for Horgan’s Quay which proposes over 1,000 new homes, will also be subject to the 20% Section V requirement.

Really !!! Thanks for the information. If this is the case there seems to have been a change of policy. Do you have any idea when these developments will be completed. The official govt figures are available on

http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPub.nsf/wvNavView/RegularPublications?OpenDocument&Lang=en#I2

Housing units acquired under Part V by Cork City Council.

2003 0
2004 0
2005 (to Apr) 6 ( in progress 0)

The Council recently accepted a payment of €9,000 in lieu of housing units from Coleman brothers. I think that there are currently about 4000 on the social waiting list and about 750 on the affordable waiting list, but that will probably increase dramatically if the Council begins acquiring housing units.

When is work due to get started on Eglington Street? More importantly, when is it to be finished? I can’t wait to see it in Cork’s skyline. Hehee, I’m so excited now.

if they go as slow there as they do here in dublin it’ll be a few years. lol. 🙂

Ohh god, I hope not. I want to be still young enough to run up all the stairs and back down again.

i agree. i would love to see ireland embrase skyscrapers in my lifetime too. i know a few have been agreed upon, 32 storeys and so on but i can’t help thinking it’s too good to be true. i’ll believe it when i see it. 🙂

Same here, they say they’ll build it, but they wont say when. I love some of the new sky scrapers in London. Alot of thought is put behind them and it shows. Good, high quality design….. you just can’t beat it.

some of the buildings in london are nice yes. i love the easter egg one but can never think of it’s name.

London Bridge Tower is also a fantastic design. I can’t wait to see it when it’s built. Is the Easter Egg one that your referring to the Gherkin/Swiss Re building by Norman Foster? I think you can climb up it from the outside. Some tourist attraction! Why can’t people just stick to normal things like Big Ben or Madame Tussauds.
Swiss Re. Building
Swiss Re. Building
London Bridge Tower

yes that’s the one i’m talking about.

The County Hall is still the tallest building in the country. Any news on when it is due for completion?

Also, anybody know the latest on the School of Music debacle?

Didn’t Jarvis run into some financial troubles? So much for PPP in the education sector.

@lexington wrote:

😀 Pitwood Limited have been granted permission for a new hotel development at Beasley Street and Parnell Place, subject to 18 conditions. The original plan called for the development of a 5-storey, 121 bedroom hotel over spa and double-deck basement car-park – however, a number of concerns were raised by the Planning Dept.in response to the application. Among them issues of height, relation to the former Provincial Bank (now TCH HQ), traffic management, ground floor usage at Parnell Place and design quality. Concerns were also issued on how the protected structures of No.17 & 18 Parnell Place (facades) were to be incoporated into the new development. A substantial redesign was requested through Significant Further Information – which, when received was considered adequate. The revised plans, submitted in July, will now host 116 bedrooms over 4 and 5 floors. The resulting design will given Cork something of a limestone “Guggenheim Museum” inspired (???) elevation at Beasley Street and South Mall, which is, I must say both unusual and impressive.

The 0.18 hectare site is owned by Corbett Bros., Pitwood Limited’s backers are involved with other hotel ventures in Ireland – including Setanta House Hotel and Carton House in Kildare – and are based in Monaghan.

James Leahy & Associates were involved in the project with Niall Fitzsimons Ltd acting as Consulting Engineers.

The image below offers a perspective looking down Beasley Street from South Mall – this western elevation forms the rear of the hotel with access to the basement car-park. The eastern/Parnell Place elevation is formed by the No.17 & 18 protected facades. This elevation is a unique and unusual mix of angles and shapes cladding with varying sizes and colourations of limestone.

holy testicle tuesday! almost missed this one!!! saw the original plans on one of me rare trips down to the planning office and cant say it did the biz for mise but the revised plan looks pretty wow! very impressed – pity the image isnt any clearer, lex when you get those improvements will ya please post up a pic a little clearer? thanks mate 😉 – either way the facade looks pretty good on beasly st elevation. i see james leahy is making a bit of a niche for his firm with this style of design – i think it suits them – their camden qy design seems like to be prep for this with its curved canopies and strange shapes. the parnell hotel plan here seems to have abandoned the trad 90degree idea in exchange for varying angular aspects. the use of variations in the limestone claddings color and size adds to the inconsistent effect and the support column at the ground floor of 93 south mall almost seems gehry-esque – position at a 70degree angle(?) rather than boring old 90. ooooo im all excited! keep these kinda ideas up jimmy! tis mighty and will do the city no harm to have a bit of ooo lala! 😀

@pier39 wrote:

……….the parnell hotel plan here seems to have abandoned the trad 90degree idea in exchange for varying angular aspects. the use of variations in the limestone claddings color and size adds to the inconsistent effect and the support column at the ground floor of 93 south mall almost seems gehry-esque – position at a 70degree angle(?) rather than boring old 90. ooooo im all excited! keep these kinda ideas up jimmy! tis mighty and will do the city no harm to have a bit of ooo lala! 😀

If it’s not a right angle, it’s a wrong angle – seems a little too much for me. What does the view from Parnell Street look like? Almost missed those images as well.

Congratulations! Our superior forum has finally hit the 20,000 mark in terms of views. Has anyone got any pictures of the old City Hall before it was burned down? Who built it and what did it look like? Also, can’t wait to see the County Hall when it is completed. It was so hidious before they started to fix it up. Talk about 1970’s office block!

anyone know when the Douglas s/c extension is meant to start and just wondering what peoples views are on the citys border extension are and does anyone know if its going to happen any time soon?

Feburary 2006 isn’t that bad. I was expecting to hear something along the lines of October-Novemberish 2006. I have a fear that something will go wrong and we’ll end up with the tower part ending up at 5 stories or something, as opposed to the original 17. I know it sounds odd, but thats my feeling. The sooner they get a crane on that site, the better. And what about Water Street, whats the story with the planning application? :confused:

And yes, my trademark BOLD Italic posts have come to an end. Sorry if they bothered ye. Paul told me to lose ’em or I’m out of Archiseek. Oh well, end of an era and I’m so close to my 100th post aswell. 🙁 At least I still got me smilies 🙂

Thats good to know, and looking at the extension being put onto the City Hall, it looks as if it’s coming along nicely.

The hotel plan looks interesting, i only hope it materialises well in the flesh.

Any news of the Dennehys cross plans yet? i await them anxiously.

I also have taken an interest in the new regional hospital cardiac extension. i saw the photos of it earlier in this forum – but when does it start??

And i dont know if anyone else has been following the plan by Manorpark Homes to redevelop Mr Haugheys estate in Kinsealy, Dublin but the planning authority criticised the quality of the projects design. what does that mean for Horgans Qy? Will Manorpark produce muck or take heed of the councils request that any application for the site must be of agood architecture level??

Any info on a development on Popes road, Blackpool?

I believe a decision is due on LadysWell on 20th of August.

i actually tawt it was today too radioactiveman (the goggles do nothing!!!) 😉 but im open to be corrected on that too. if im wrong i will drag myself out of the office, whack myself across the head with a 4×4 no fewer than 7 times and then handcuff myself to the bumper of the next car i see parked outside a church with a cheap homemade sign in its rear window saying ‘just married’. hmmm….sounds like my bachelor party!

whatever date it is the ladyswell project will add tremenduously to what has become a pretty rundown area of da ‘pool, a buddy of mine says that all going well (when the bord do decide to make up their mind) that the project will get moving immediately. think the developers are anxious just to get this baby off the ground. and maybe the grand parade project will f-f-f-finally get buzzing! puhlease! i pass that site everyday in visual anticipation of seeing a william o’briens parked outside and bits of a green tower crane waiting to be assembled!!!!!!!!! hehe

(oh and sorry bout the gratuitous violence portrayed above in me first paragraph – i grew up watching tom & jerry, it’s all i know – now if you’ll excuse me, i’m off to sellotape a frying pan to my pet mouse’s paw and a baseball bat to my pet cat’s paw…and watch the comedy ensue!) :p

any more news on the decision due on the apartments for tramore road at the former Keatings Bakery?

Compliments to Lexington on his excellent ‘review’ of Blackpool Shopping Centre and Retail Park. It does leave Mahon Point way behind.
To my mind, one of the greatest features of the area, is that the old part of Blackpool, Thomas Davis Street, Great William O’Brien Street and such, have still been able to retain their character whileall around them, things have changed beyond belief.

Yes, very impressed by all the information on Blackpool lex. Dixons coming to Cork, I thought as much when I heard PC World was opening. I would have expected Dixons to look for a city centre location though, but opening in Ballincollig might balance things out. PC World and Currys in Mahon, Maplin and Soundstore in Blackpool, Harvey Norman at the former Woodies and now Dixons in Ballincollig. What a perfect layout! 🙂

C’mon lads! Cant we get this thread the 5 stars it deserves?? give it yer vote! hehe

I do hope St. patricks qy gets the Revenue commissioners. It makes sense location wise and would be a great addition to the city centre.

On Blackpool I agree, i live nearby and its a great asset to the area. Far better than Mahon point.

I have voted, it doesn’t make a difference, I think someone like PaulClerkin must do it….. And some of ye should give a post now and then in the Most beautiful building in Cork forum. 😀

i voted too. my first time to vote actually since i joined in oct 2004. 🙂

I’d agree with Lexington as regards Blackpool SC/RP. It’s far supperior than Mahon Point but just doesn’t get the hype.
One of the big problems facing the area now is the lack of a decent public transport system. The number three is the lifeline for most public transport users- the number 5 timetable was britally butchered a few years ago. Even now, with the re-generation of Watercourse road, number 3 is severely diverted- albeit temporarily.
Of course the area has been promised the return of the train station at KIlbarry, however without onward links from Kent Station to other areas of the city, this will be next to useless for residents.

—The ABP decision on Frinailla’s Lady’s Well is now due on the 13th of October.–

O’Callaghan properties have indicated that the space used as a temporary Gallery in their new Lavitts Quay development (21 Lavitts Quay) may become a permanent fixture after Cork 2005 ends.
The exhibition space is currently playing host to Sebastião Salgado and Simon Norfolk exhibitions. They gallery is a huge success and has been praised for its location and the bright, simple space it makes available to artists.

As I mentioned above, I believe Blackpool Shopping Centre /Retail Park has been largely beneficial for the Blackpool area as a whole. One of the main reasons for this is that the developers made use of barrren wasteland which was made accessible by the Blackpool bypass. This development is totally different as it seeks to ‘eat in’ to the historic streetscape in the area. The house to be demolished is a fine example of period housing in the area and permission should never have been granted for its demolition.

Great review on Blackpool Lexington, I think they have done a fantastic job in creating somewhere that has something for everyone aswell as creating plenty of jobs also. As I live five minutes away I would have loved it when I was younger with so many things to do now down there and I was always envious of douglas cos they had everything now its the other way around and Douglas is envious of Blackpool. I am also looking forward to Ballincollig and Mallow because they will create new centres for people to socialise and shop in. Does anybody know of any tenants going into mallow as I’m moving nearby in the new year I know that Pizza Hut and Costa Coffee are going in there and I think Tesco are the main tenants plus I heard that Penneys are looking for a spot but who else is going into John Flemings Market Square.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

I’d agree with Lexington as regards Blackpool SC/RP. It’s far supperior than Mahon Point but just doesn’t get the hype.
One of the big problems facing the area now is the lack of a decent public transport system. The number three is the lifeline for most public transport users- the number 5 timetable was britally butchered a few years ago. Even now, with the re-generation of Watercourse road, number 3 is severely diverted- albeit temporarily.
Of course the area has been promised the return of the train station at KIlbarry, however without onward links from Kent Station to other areas of the city, this will be next to useless for residents.

Don’t even get me started on public transport in this city again. It get’s me into all sorts of trouble. Although my ingenious plan of a tolleybus using the subway map courtesy of the Peoples Republic of Cork was brilliant. Have a look back in page 7 of this forum. TolleyBuses are the way to the future! :rolleyes:

Also, Penneys would be good in Mallow. It’s a good shopping town as it is, but the Dunnes is tiny (like people cant drive to the next Dunnes in half and hour anyway). securityman, forgive my ignorance, but I didn’t know there was a Pizza Hut opening in Mallow. I don’t recall ever seeing a McDonalds there, and I would have thought they would have got first dibs.

@A-ha wrote:

Also, Penneys would be good in Mallow. It’s a good shopping town as it is, but the Dunnes is tiny (like people cant drive to the next Dunnes in half and hour anyway). securityman, forgive my ignorance, but I didn’t know there was a Pizza Hut opening in Mallow. I don’t recall ever seeing a McDonalds there, and I would have thought they would have got first dibs.

There is a McDonalds there already across the way from that tiny dunnes you are on about plus they have O’Briens. I read a while back that Pizza Hut and Costa Coffee were going in there because MBCC foods the scottish company who own the rights to these outlets are basing themselves in Little Island and seem to like Cork considering that the first two Costa Coffees in this country are in Cork so fair play to them for not choosing Dublin first for a change.

hmm, I never noticed the McDonalds there, although I went into the O’Briens. I always rate towns on what shops and restaurants they have in them. Thats why I’m not much of a fan of Waterford. Only one shopping centre in the city centre and no Marks and Spencers. Like I shop there (yeah right). But you know what I mean. It also must rely on McDonalds as it’s only source of fast food and I’d die without a Virgin Megastore or an FCUK shop….. die! But i have to say, Waterford did beat Cork to the punch in having a PC World first along with Limerick. I’m pleased aswell about Costa Coffee’s decision to open in Cork first. It’s a nice change rather then Dublin.

I hit 100 posts…. Now I’m all grown up!

hmmmmuh very inktresting!

i’ve no doubt the ladyswell plan will add to the place. i always tawt were it not for the nice like canopy additions and variations in colouring and finishes the design could have been quite boring and boxy, however never saw the recreational space graphics before and i have to say it looks very well, like the little water feature. what will be a telling sign will be if frinailla actually show real ingenuity and cover the repaving of the roadway and pathways a la the 1st 2 pics above. i think it will help their scheme on a whole, make the corporation smile and shut the mouths of a few critics in the area while their at it. look forward to seeing if the presentation pics match the flesh in that sense. the watercourse road could do with a little imagination and input, hope frinailla seize the opportunity. still, good job lads.

anyone got pics of how that stretch of road is now? would be a really interesting comprative and highlight just how much the ladyswell blocks would add.

The Blackpool project seems suitable for the area. I am originally from near Assumption Road and I have fond memories of the place. It has been depressing to see the decay that has been onset along the Watercourse rd over the years. The whole suburb seems to have changed and when i return to visit I often fail to recognise much of it. I am glad however that the old centre of Blackpool has been carefull timecapusled, but not in a negative sense. Its a credit to those involved in the suburbs regeneration have allowed the place develop on such a large scale but without injuring or intruding on the old areas. I also love what theyve done on the old Blackpool flats, I think RESPONSE! were behind this with the corporation and murnane and O’Shea builders. The flats have been wonderfuully redeveloped for new elderly housing and social uses. Well done to all involved!

Though i like the Blackpool plans, I hope the developers who i understand will be seeking to develop Dennehys Cross will offer the area a very considerate approach. The housing in the area must be respected. I have no problem with a redevelopment of the sites involved, frankly i think the existing warehousing and worksheds and showrooms are an eyesore but i would ask the developers to offer a decent fitting design. I dont oppose their 7 floors plan near Top car, the height is clearly a product of trends in the area and that is fine along this routeway but anything over 4 or 5 floors fronting Dennehys cross in my opinion would represent a gross overdevelopment. I await the plans anxiously,.

agreed the redeveloped flats are a job well done. its hard to think that the were once modelled on a stack of shoe boxes! 🙂 seriously word is the original blackpool flats were designed by a member of the store-room staff at a shoe shop. hehe. the new facility is a real excellent redevelopment. anyone got pics?

Any news on the Ford site?? Has it been sold?

@A-ha wrote:

I always rate towns on what shops and restaurants they have in them. Thats why I’m not much of a fan of Waterford. Only one shopping centre in the city centre and no Marks and Spencers.

Thats a really depressing thought A-ha, SHould you not rate towns on the friendliness of the people, the variety of open spaces, the quality of schools, cultural activities and places of worship? Or am I just fooling myself?

Incidently, Lexington, I dont understand how Frinailla can link the decision at Blackpool to the start up of their City Square development. Surely these are individual projects and the CIty Council/ABP should not be held to ransom like this.

Thats a really depressing thought A-ha, SHould you not rate towns on the friendliness of the people, the variety of open spaces, the quality of schools, cultural activities and places of worship? Or am I just fooling myself?

No, I do take into account what you have mentioned. That’s why Cork is such a great city. People are friendly and always funny. Even when I’m on the bus or in a queue somewhere, I always end up laughing to myself at other peoples conversations. It’s a Cork persons nature to be funny. As for Cultural activities… European Capital of Culture and quality of schools… the only three people to recieve straight A’s in the leaving cert. were all from Cork. That’s what makes a city, all those factors. But I always brief a city on it’s shops. If major retailers won’t locate there and local shops can’t survive, there is something seriously wrong with the city. Just a walk down Oliver Plunkett street will show you how vibrant our city is. Most of the shops are still family owned and manage to thrive as they always have done. This isn’t the case in other cities!

With the most sincere intentions Aha, i would say ‘stop right there’. I understand what you are saying but think it may be lost in a hole you may not want to dig in. 😉

Hmmm, not quite sure I know what you mean. Are you against what I said or something?

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@Radioactiveman wrote:

“but don’t you dare call my posts a waste if (sic) time” [A-ha, Post #334 above]
This quote suggests that you are blaming someone and as if you are saying it was someones fault.

“people were more tolerant” [A-ha, Post #336 above]
I doubt whether the people of Waterford would be happy about the suggestion that they were ever less tolerant (than Cork at least) of other religions at the time.

Finally, It was I who suggested that towns should be rated on a number of things, including “the quality of schools, cultural activities and places of worship” [RM, Post #328, above] however the variety of places of worship cannot be changed by some sort of artificial intervention.
Places of worship are, by their nature constructed by communities of faith, generally living in a particular area. It is not the job of a city to construct place of worship for all religions in order to atttract that religion to the city. Therefore, a city cannot be faulted for a lack of religious diversity, especially given the country we are living in.

That will be my final comment on the matter. Let’s not get distracted from the job in hand.

My Great Grandmother was the child of an immigrant Jewish Family that settled in Cork because of religious tolerance practised in the city that wasn’t evident elsewhere in the province. However this was a very long time ago and I would hope that Waterford and Limerick today are at least tolerant to those of other persuasions.

Waterford, Limerick, Galway all seem to be very vibrant and thriving centres. In fact Cork’s recent economic boom was quite belated when you consider what had been happening in those other towns. All three cities represent prosperity and positivity, as well as citizens with keen wit and humour.

I love Cork and am an extremely proud Corkonian, but I see no need to slag off Waterford on this site.

I’m not slagging the Waterford off. I just dislike the city. I’m sorry if that offends people, but I’m sure people from Waterford, Limerick or any other place dislike Cork. They’re allowed have an opinion too.

I’m happy to withdraw the two posts above as they were directed at one contributor to the thread rather than the thread in general.
As we’re in the mood for it, will you be removing post #330 A-ha, since it started this whole conversation?

I’ll edit it. I don’t see a reason to delete the message all together. Will you be deleteing #328? After all, it was the start of this whole debocle.

No, I won’t be editing or removing any more of my posts. I am quite happy to stand by their comments which are in no way controversial. To do that would lead to the childish situation where I could then ask you to edit post # 319, and then we’d go down a road of altering previous texts until the cows come home.
I believe it was altuistic who advised you to ‘stop right there’ after #330 and that you may have been digging a hole for yourself. I think I may have given you the shovel!!
This really is my final word on the matter.

Fair enough. But at least altuistic was mild about it. I don’t like harsh and over the top reactions to a post that really didn’t mean much to anybody. Thought everyone could have an opinion in Ireland. My mistake.

Guys->I don’t know what was even said in these posts, but can we stop, it doesn’t benefit the thread at all.

I was just reading lexington’s post there about new offices off the Skehard Rd. in Blackrock. Going down the Skehard Rd. over the weekend I saw another new development describing itself as being in Blackrock.

Is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with the renaming of areas. Skehard Rd is in Mahon. At a push you could describe it as being in Beaumont or Ballinlough, but there is no way it is in Blackrock. Similarly, we have seen areas of Togher drift into being in Wilton or Glasheen and an area called Doughcloyne, which as far as I’m aware only existed as the name of a pub 20 years ago.

In Dublin the same thing has happened with the disappearance of areas like Irishtown.

Does anyone else think that there should be a requirement to use the actual address for developments? Presumably, they have a correct postal address.

Anyway, moving on from the matter. I hear Cork is too get more security cameras in city buses to prevent any vandalism.

Maybe if postal codes were initiated it would help solve the problem. Has it anything to do with bouderies. Surely old ones must have existed to define seperate areas.

why are mommy and daddy fighting??? whoa…sorry bout that, my supressed childhood keeps popping up now and again at the hint of conflict! hehehe. peace people.

anyway jungle, i suppose you gotta think hypothetical: if you had 50 euros and 2 choices to buy a house (yeah right! thatll be the day!) both identical, both with the exact same services blah blah blah – one in classytown, one in notasclassybutstillnice town – where would you buy?

same principle with office developments, aprtments etc. i do think its becoming less important though as the scale of some individual developments literally carve their own address and redefine and area based on that – i.e. mahon point. however their will always be a sort of prestige for example have an office in a place like, say the cork docklands over say ringaskiddy! 🙂 its a status thing in that respect i suppose and developers etc can cash in on that – so be it. its the way of the market. if people are willing to buy gucci over penneys, gucci aint gonna move their prices as long as there is a sufficient market. but as i say i do sense its becoming slightly less important, at least in cork anyway and with the exception of the docklands/city centre which will always have a sort of status over other locations.

Anyone know if there is a ‘co-ordinated’ plan for the Kennedy Quay area? Assuming different developers are going to buy it in sections, are the river front boardwalks/pavements going to be developed into one cohesive design, or a collage of differing ones? Am I right in assuming it will be pedestrianised, and thus you’ll be able to walk along the river from the city centre along the quays to the marina, and onwards? Or is it possible some of the quayside won’t be accessible to the public?

Couldn’t sleep the other night, so got off my bum at first light, and went for a walk along the marina, past Blackrock, around Mahon Pt. and back up via the old railroad track – what a wonderful resource that route is, either for pedestrians, cyclists or even “green” commuters. The only pity is you have to suffer the gloomy Centre Park Rd. to get there! Once the South Bank is redeveloped, it’ll connect this area nicely to the city centre.

I’d love to see the quays developed something along the lines of South Bank in Melbourne, though perhaps the casino there is a little overbearing and tacky.

@lexington wrote:

I’m not quite sure what you mean here – ‘the decision at Blackpool’, do you mean the decision by CCC/ABP to refuse the original part 9-storey plan??? :confused:

In the original frinailla post (#321 i think) you said ” should the appeall be favoured, it is my understanding the developers intend to begin work on City Square almost immediately”.

I took this to mean that the ABP reault to be announced in October had a bearing on when City Square was started.

Sorry if i’m getting the wrong end of the stick.

jungle, notice how Mahon has become Ballinure for the purposes of selling Jacobs Island

@d_d_dallas wrote:

jungle, notice how Mahon has become Ballinure for the purposes of selling Jacobs Island

location, location, location……its still Mahon with a lovely view of the Examiner print works (now is that the most beautiful building in Cork or what!)….

I love the corrugated steel glistening in the sun… also the curved facade in an Aldi-esque wink at the Indo’s Citiwest magnificence.

The City Council have requested a photomontage of the scheme………………….. : 😮

Cant wait to see what its like. Maybe I should reserve judgement until then.

I’ve checked the plans on my last visit to the planning dept. The scheme includes 16 duplex apartments, similiar to the adjoining buildings…………………………… Cant say I like the design however, I mean have you looked around Blackpool lately, very innovative/ contemporary designs going up around here.

This building is just replicating whats gone before, no imagination whatsoever………………………………… : 🙁

QUOTE=Frog1]Any info on a development on Popes road, Blackpool?[/QUOTE]

QUOTE=Frog1]Any info on a development on Popes road, Blackpool?[/

Does anyone have an image of the new Examiner Printing Press building in Mahon?

Also, does anyone know the due date for the ABP decision with regard to AIB Blackpool?

Also, todays Examiner had an article by Tommy Barker detailing moves by Port of Cork to move its operations out of the Docklands and into the Ringaskiddy area of Cork Harbour.
In particular he mentions the cork bonded warehouse site and says there is currently a legal disput ongoing with regard to this site. Any body have further details?

em… SARCASM!

“Aldi-esque”

Cheap as chips and in such a prominent location. TCH acquire a magnificent premises on South Mall for their own and then inflict this! Corporate image obviously only applies in the City Centre.

WOW!!!

Are they serious though?? maybe if Mr. kenny is successful in getting the Revenue comissioners and I hope he does cos i really love the St. patricks qy building he proposed, maybe he could use the Sullivans quay site for that hotel proposal. That site could probably accomodate a building of that height a bit better and provide a dramatic backdrop when viewed down along Grand parade.

But really, do ya think that building at the location seen in the pictures is really that bad? It could make for a nice punctuation of the citys skyline with County hall in the west, that hotel in the city centre, Eglinton street in the east and leading out to highrise in the docklands.
i dont think St. Finbars would be too dirupted by that cos the hotel is stepped to the side of the vista and not actually in its path like that other hotel proposal at Crosses green, yeuck!

I think it looks a really nice building, but what is with all that timber or whatever it is on the outside. It looks as if all the windows are boarded up. It would look miles better if it were to be removed. I like the shape of it and it would be a nice feature to the area’s skyline. The BMW sports car at the rear of the park in the second picture isn’t so bad either. :rolleyes:

That’s hilarious (above images for Gnd Parade site). It would never in a million years get planning permission.
Equivalent to O’Connell Bridge House, Dublin, in inappropriateness.

hmmmm where to begin???

first off does the nat ross development remind anyone of a caramac bar??? or one of those caramel cup desserts only taller? i just keep looking for that novel gigantic silver spoon feature to extend out of the rooftop.

and im sorry, but i still think that parnell place hotel scheme looks very exciting and glad to see construction dates have been set.

as for the kenny group hotel idea on south main street, i believe wayne campbell of waynes world once put it, ‘scheeeeyaw right!’ (now we’ve established the level of my cultural intake.) it reminds me of the hotel concorde in paris not far from the arc de triomphe. the location is totally unsuited, however by established the development bulk to one end of the site, it allows for visual and breathing space to residents of the frinailla project who i think have balconies facing toward the river. otherwise the kenny proposals on this site will have to consume a greater area with a dispersed bulk to compensate for any loss otherwise achieved by height. that means the frinailla residents will be looking out to a concrete wall, well not quite, but sort of. even so this type of project is better suited for the docklands but i still wouldnt be too happy with the design. it does nothing for me and could do with a little more form and imagination. nice pics all the same.

Yeah, nice pics lexington and great to see what we’re being saved from by a bit of common sense. What we have to wonder about is the fact that Mr. Kenny actually paid people to come up with this totally innappropriate design for the area which they themselves must have known would never even get close to Navigation House. I’m all for pushing the boundries, working outside the box and all the rest of those catchphrases but people have to be realistic about it.

The design itself is let down by the timber cladding and the rear of the development (first image) towards Grand Parade, along the river looks boxy and badly thought out.
No, No, No.

Can anyone confirm whether Vibes and Scribes are moving into one of the OCP units at lapps quay?

@ewankennedy wrote:

But really, do ya think that building at the location seen in the pictures is really that bad? It could make for a nice punctuation of the citys skyline with County hall in the west, that hotel in the city centre, Eglinton street in the east and leading out to highrise in the docklands.
i dont think St. Finbars would be too dirupted by that cos the hotel is stepped to the side of the vista and not actually in its path like that other hotel proposal at Crosses green, yeuck!

I actually really like the design – far, far, faaar better than the hotel which has received planning permission at Cross’s Green.

However, I can see why it wouldn’t go ahead. Particularly, the view of St. Finbarr’s from along the South Mall or Lapp’s Quay would be completely obscured.

That said, I personally would still not be opposed to it – Main St (South Main St. in particular) still looks incredibly run down Anything would be an improvement, and it might bring some life to the area.

lexington – Thanks for the detailed response regarding the South Docks! You also succeeded in cutting a few of my next questions off at the knees! 😉

The only plans/designs I’ve yet seen for the area is the masterplan pdf, which I’d assume is a rough, aspirational plan rather than the final shape. What really impressed me about it though were “extras” for want of a better word – the boating basin, preserving/restoring the waterways, the numerous parks, the public access to the riverfront walkways etc. Fortunately, it seems that developers are putting increasing effort not just into the quality of their designs, but into the recreational areas and other facilities in the area.

I wondered too how an area this size is going to affect the commuter patterns/levels in the city. Has anyone projected how many people might work in a rejuvenated dockland development? Can you imagine an extra 40 or 50 thousand people commuting every day to the South Docks through Blackrock, Mahon, Douglas? It could be a nightmare – hence I’d guess the hope is that it be reasonably self-sufficient. I.e. a good number of people working in the docklands will live there too.

It’s good to hear about the Nat Ross plans, as it shows it’s not just the riverfront sites which will be cherry-picked for the prestigious projects. Plus, the fact that they’re going for up to 10 stories bodes well for higher buildings closer to the fiver/further from the established residences. (Sorry, but I’m a big fan of tall (but pretty) buildings)

Interesting, if uncertain, times. I just wish they’d get on and start knocking/building something!! At least with Webworks and Eglington St. on the way, they’re moving in the right direction.

It was no surprise either to hear Howard Holdings mentioned, I remember reading Greg Coughlan’s comments around the opening of Lapp’s Quay, and he seems more enthusiastic/ambitious about the docklands than the council or most Corkonians!

Keep up the bean spilling!

I see that H&M are going into the crescent shopping centre in Limerick its amazing that they are going there before Cork just like Dixons, Foot Locker, TK Maxx etc.. Unless O’Flynn Construction are trying to get them for Ballincollig as Marks and Spencers dont seem to be interested now. That would be a big boost to Ballincollig SC and give Owen O’Callaghan something to worry about. To date Iknow that Dunnes, Eason, Carrig Donn and Art and Hobby are moving in but they arent going to set the world a light are they??

I didn’t know that Cork was waiting for TK Maxx and Foot Locker to open. I’ve never been to the Crescent shopping centre, but has it been extended or has a shop closed to make way for H&M. It’s such a shame that they are opening in Limerick first, but no doubt they’ll open in Cork soon after (Cornmarket Street maybe???) Why do I have a feeling that Ballincollig will turn into another Douglas Court, just newer. Next time a shooping centre opens in Cork, Dunnes should be banned by the city council!
Oh and I really like the roof top garden, shame it wont be seen from the ground, and copper cladding sounds different.

i quite like the look of the roof garden. it looks nice.

Let’s hope we will see more architecture of this quality around the country in the near future.

I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

@pier39 wrote:

it reminds me of the hotel concorde in paris not far from the arc de triomphe. the location is totally unsuited

The effect on Cork’s ‘signature’ view – the view from Nano Nagle Bridge to St. Finbarr’s with South Gate Bridge and the terraces of Sullivan’s/Proby’s Quay in the foreground – would’ve been terrible.

As said it’s a docklands type building.

@A-ha wrote:

I didn’t know that Cork was waiting for TK Maxx and Foot Locker to open. I’ve never been to the Crescent shopping centre, but has it been extended or has a shop closed to make way for H&M. It’s such a shame that they are opening in Limerick first, but no doubt they’ll open in Cork soon after (Cornmarket Street maybe???) Why do I have a feeling that Ballincollig will turn into another Douglas Court, just newer. Next time a shooping centre opens in Cork, Dunnes should be banned by the city council!
Oh and I really like the roof top garden, shame it wont be seen from the ground, and copper cladding sounds different.

The crescent is after building on a new extension from what I gather, I’ve been there twice and its similar to mahon point except longer and only on one level. As for Ballincollig I agree with you the last thing you need is another Douglas court all that place seems to be good for is coffee with O’Briens, BBs, Costa Coffee, Gloria Jeans all under one roof. I heard last night that OFC are looking for too much on the rent for the outlets because a large music store in this country had a look but thought the rent was to high in comparison to recent store openings.

Thats great that the cat club will get a new premises and that the old pub Pa Johnsons will get a new home it should be good for the area I’m amazed how long its taking Camden wharf to open its doors that place seems to be in the building process for years now.

Hi, just talking about the 2 developments either side of Carrolls quay, you have the James leahy designed Camden court on the western side of the road and the J. Keating designed Camden wharf on the eastern side. Both are new and under sale at the moment. As far as i know, phase 2 of Camden wharf is under sale – There are 59 apartments here in total. Camden court is seeing its 2nd phase now under construction, i think it totall there will be something like 90 apartments there. Which do you think is the better design? I have 2 pics below (thanks for info too lex) so which do you think ended up the superior development? in terms of design i mean!!

Camden wharf. J. Keating and associates. and developed by the Hornibrook holdings.

Camden court. James Leahy and associates. developed by OSB group.

????????

New super prison planned for Spike Island site

by Ralph Riegel, Irish Independent 26th August 2005

SPIKE Island is to be the site for a huge multi-million euro prison.
Following the long-awaited wage agreement between the Irish Prison Officers Association and Justice Minister Michael McDowell, the Government is to consider proposals for a new prison in Cork Harbour.
This would cater for upwards of 600 inmates – more than four times the design capacity of the existing Cork prison on Rathmore Road.
Critically, the new super-prison would not only ease pressure on jails in Limerick and Dublin, but would also transform prison security and allow officers eliminate the flow of drugs and contraband into the jail.
The proposed new Spike Island prison is also likely to cater for both male and female prisoners, thereby resolving the crux of female Cork inmates having to be transferred to either Dublin or Limerick jails.
Last night, the Irish Prisons Service (IPS) confirmed that studies are already underway into how to develop the existing Fort Mitchell prison on Spike Island. A key element of the plan is the construction of a new bridge, which would be controlled by the IPS. A senior government source added funding is expected to be sought for 2006/2007.

Pity about Spike,

Would have been nicer to see it contribute rather the detract from the economy’s resources, the proposed ‘Alcatraz’ style attraction would have been of far greater benefit. the Super Prison idea is a carelessly flawed one.

@altuistic wrote:

Pity about Spike,

Would have been nicer to see it contribute rather the detract from the economy’s resources, the proposed ‘Alcatraz’ style attraction would have been of far greater benefit. the Super Prison idea is a carelessly flawed one.

Why is the plan for a super prison on Spike Island flawed?

securityman, are TK Maxx and Foot Locker due to open in Cork?

@mhenness wrote:

Why is the plan for a super prison on Spike Island flawed?

I think the idea of large scale all encompassing institutions represent a poor option with regard to penal accountability, such institutions have little to no categorisation in terms of the prisoner arrangements. in many cases the man serving a month for traffic offences is mixed with the fellas serving 20 for manslaughter or murder. what about rehabilition?? Is such an arrangement truly of benefit to the offender? I would prefer to see smaller specialised institutions, i.e. minor crimes, severe etc etc should the man guilty of a minor offence not be offered an environment that positively works to see his restoration into society as a productive member?

my family at one stage sought to adopt a young boy (12 at the time) but which ultimately failed given numerous legal circumstances. His mother died at an early age, his father was an alcoholic and cared not if at all for the condition of his son whom he would often beat in a drunken rage. His sisters were in foster care. We did our best to offer him alternative paths, getting him jobs, summer work, funding for schooling but because we had no legal guardianship often he would disappear for weeks, months on end – in which time he associated with the wrong crowds. As the years went by, this innately good hearted young fella, was arrested for snatching a pickpocketing offence, an improper offence but a minor in comparison. Now the law is the law, I accept that but he was sent to Spike at 18 and it did him no world of good. I wont bore you the ins and outs but at 21 he was found dead in his flat after O.D.’ing. im not saying this was the institutions fault, you may argue it was an inevitability of some sorts, but i can assure you, were a proper insitution dealing with fellas like himself put in place and he may have had a better shot. I’m skipping so many details i know my argument sounds flawed itself but trust me that i know the details.

i just dont see Superprisons as the way to go.

I’ll support anything that will replace the current city jail. It’s absolutley horrible. Went there before on school trip. It’s so old and dated and the cells don’t even have toilets in there (only chamber pots). Nobody deserves to be sentenced to a place like Cork Prison. Half the windows are bust and by the looks of it, the place hasn’t been painted in years. It’s obvious no money is put into the place, but I do remember seeing an extension being built to provide a new “school” for the inmates. A school with iron bars, it sounds like mine. Alcatraz High! :rolleyes:

@lexington wrote:

🙂 John F. Supple Contractors seem to be storming ahead with Phase 2 of the €30m Camden Court project being developed by OSB Group. Phase 1, designed by James Leahy & Associates, which comprised of 44 apartments, was acclaimed for it’s respectful and innovative, limestone & copper clad design. Phase 2 will see the development of over 50 further apartments, extensive roof-gardens, a new home for the Cork Arts Theatre and new Pa Johnson’s Pub premises. Below find images of Phase 1, now completed, and Phase 2, under construction (note the images display a variation on the actual resulting material finish and colouration – which will be limestone, as par Phase 1).

I have to say, it looks great in the photos, but in real life I think it just looks quite drab. I don’t really understand the acclaim.

(Plus, every time I see it, I’m reminded of the comments made about its interior in another thread here! 😉 )

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Can anyone confirm whether Vibes and Scribes are moving into one of the OCP units at lapps quay?

Lapps? Do you mean Lavitts? If so, it could be a good move – I only recently realised the lane alongside links with the Hugenot quarter, so it might see more foot traffic.

Incidentally, the existing Vibes and Scribes building is actually really attractive, or it would be if all the advertising was torn down.

I am glad to see that some people finally agree with me that Cork needs to do something about attracting the big name stores as i wrote about it before and people started going on about how Cork is such a great place to shop because it still has all its indigenous businesses going.I also agree with this but as Irelands second city and in order to be recognised as a modern european city as the city councillers are always saying, you need to attract this kind of business!I noticed this recently when i was in Galway and Waterford and it just made me wonder why this is?It just makes you wonder why stores such as homebase,footlocker,eddie rockets,currys etc locate in Waterford before Cork when the area i live in alone is around the same size as Waterford? :confused:

@A-ha wrote:

I didn’t know that Cork was waiting for TK Maxx and Foot Locker to open. I’ve never been to the Crescent shopping centre, but has it been extended or has a shop closed to make way for H&M. It’s such a shame that they are opening in Limerick first, but no doubt they’ll open in Cork soon after (Cornmarket Street maybe???) Why do I have a feeling that Ballincollig will turn into another Douglas Court, just newer. Next time a shooping centre opens in Cork, Dunnes should be banned by the city council!
Oh and I really like the roof top garden, shame it wont be seen from the ground, and copper cladding sounds different.

I wish TK maxx was comming to Cork, As an ex member of TJ Maxx I was told back in 1991 they were comming to Ireland, What slowed it down was the size of the shops, they were looking for 35,000 sq ft. I agree no more Dunnes Stores , give us a change. New shopping centres must have new mix of retailers and not the same old shops.

Yea, why foreign retailers locate to places like Galway and Waterford first is beyond me. I can accept Dublin and Limerick, but why Galway? Cork caters for a big catchment area and it’s only in the last year that foreign stores locate here! It’s about time too. Cork is soon to get a PC World and Dixons, but they have been in Limerick and Waterford for years. Whats the hold up? Did Cork have a shortage of retail parks or something? daniel 7, Homebase were due to come to Cork a few months back, but since B&Q and Atlantic Homecare opened up and Woodies got a new store, I guess they decided to hold back. But on the otherhand, alot of the stores in Mahon Point are believed to be found only in Cork or Dublin, Debenhams located it’s first store outside Dublin in Cork, so that has to count for something. I think we are picking out the stores we don’t have, rather than the stores that we do. (p.s. hope TK Maxx and H&M come to Cork too).

A-ha , where is TK max going up in Cork and what is it ? , there is one going in Limerick too 🙂 why is it shame that Limerick is getting H&M? 🙂 I have not been in Cork in a while, so hows the Mahon point gettin on ? trade and shops taken .. I like the development of those apartements that lex posted above. 🙂

It isn’t a shame that Limerick is getting a H&M. I was just pointing out that it’s a same Limerick and Galway get some stores before Cork (especially TK Maxx, there is even one in Tralee!). Don’t know where TK Maxx are going (that’s if they do come to Cork, you’ll have to ask securityman). Mahon Point is getting on quite well. Debenhams is very popular and trade has leveled out over recent months in the other stores like Jane Norman, Bershka and Lacoste. I like the shopping centre, it feels so spacious and really bright, but I think I will stick with the city centre for the time being.

There is no sign of TK Maxx or H&M making an arrival in Cork yet but with the retail park in Blackpool opening phase 2 before christmas I wouldnt be suprised if we see TK Maxx ansdsomeone like Harry Corrys moving in as the the rest of the stores seem to be doing very well. As for Mahon Point it seems to be ticking along nicely and I’ve no doubt they will do well on the run up to christmas but one thing I have noticed is that none of our shopping centres in the city have a proper toy store. I’m suprissed smiths wouldnt go for blackppol, mahon or ballincollig or maybe its in the pipeline. I hear that Starbucks has opened in Dublin I wonder will they make the move to cork somewhere like the CIE office on Patrick st might be a good location for them.

Did anyone see the write up on Eastgate on the Evening Echo on Saturday too me it looked like an advertisement to get bigger names in there as the ones they have wont attract anyone besides the employees that are working nearby with the exception of Pizza Hut. I went into the Raddison yesterday for the first time, for me it is very plain and does nothing for me I suppose its aiming for business travellers. Where I was impressed with though was the BK2 bar in Glanmire very modern and stylish for a suburban bar along the lines of the Plaza in Killarney but better. Well done to the shelbourne group on that one.

@who_me wrote:

Lapps? Do you mean Lavitts? If so, it could be a good move…

Yeah, I did mean Lavitts. Sorry for the confusion. Still no nearer to finding out whether its true or not.

Has anyone heard the rumour that the Brog and Qube complex is to be sold on oliver plunkett st to the developers of the new shopping centre where the capitol cineplex is now. I also hear that Arnotts is rumored to be looking to be anchor tenants in this new development.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

Yeah, I did mean Lavitts. Sorry for the confusion. Still no nearer to finding out whether its true or not.

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I have no idea what TK maxx is but i’ve a feeling if it doesn’t open somewhere in Cork soon a couple of members of this thread could explode with anticipation :p

TK Maxx has just opened in Sligo (sorry Cork). Must say it is a peculiar shop – Calvin Klein boxer shorts sit side-by-side with things that quite obviously just arrived in on the latest ship from Taiwan. What is the back ground to the shop? Are they German – they have a certain Lidl/Aldi style to them. Anyway – Corkonians, don’t hold your breath, it isn’t exactly awe inspiring. H & M though will stir Dunnes Stores up – no harm.