developments in cork
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Ohh, I’m so confused… mechanics, planners, neurosurgeon, I’ll come back later. p.s. thanks lex, but when is the completion date?
@yorktown wrote:
Bit harsh, there’s nothing wrong with a mechanic giving advice to a neurosurgeon, OK the patient may die but still, if the neurosurgeon is mad in the first place what’s the harm………
hey! my mechanic is a surgeon…well sort of, hes got a sign over the garage door saying ‘free colonic irrigation while you wait’. i went in to get my transmission sorted recently and both me and my car came out feeling fresh and revitalised!
i dont buy that planners think their god argument, sorry. i know all too well the problems some planners cause but as an architect i will tell you first off that a good design takes an empirical view and pre-empts planner queries. indeed i have found some planners quite arrogant but that should not overshade a number of other generally reasonable characters – hey, i’ll be first to admit theres quite a lot of arrogant persons in our profession too! i have had cases though were planners have been outright ill considerated and domineering and i empathise in such cases. in cork i have been watching some of the planners progress and conditions…a few moves have boggled me, others i can see their point. but hey its the cards we’re dealt with and theres always the appeal board. in conclusion, i need sleep.
if anyone was down in horgans qy today you may have seen some very curious activity…oooo exciting. my friend bet me 20 they were taking backgrounds for a photomontage!!!!! :p
hey! my mechanic is a surgeon…well sort of, hes got a sign over the garage door saying ‘free colonic irrigation while you wait’. i went in to get my transmission sorted recently and both me and my car came out feeling fresh and revitalised!
hehehehe, pier39 I told ya that you should do stand up comedy 😀 Ohh, heard on the news that there was supposed to be abit of a fuel shortage, fill up your cars before they charge €2.50 a litre.
@A-ha wrote:
Yea, why foreign retailers locate to places like Galway and Waterford first is beyond me. I can accept Dublin and Limerick, but why Galway? Cork caters for a big catchment area and it’s only in the last year that foreign stores locate here! It’s about time too. Cork is soon to get a PC World and Dixons, but they have been in Limerick and Waterford for years. Whats the hold up? Did Cork have a shortage of retail parks or something? daniel 7, Homebase were due to come to Cork a few months back, but since B&Q and Atlantic Homecare opened up and Woodies got a new store, I guess they decided to hold back. But on the otherhand, alot of the stores in Mahon Point are believed to be found only in Cork or Dublin, Debenhams located it’s first store outside Dublin in Cork, so that has to count for something. I think we are picking out the stores we don’t have, rather than the stores that we do. (p.s. hope TK Maxx and H&M come to Cork too).
was just wondering what you ment by “why galway?”and then i realised u must have ment because we are the fastest growing city in western eurpoe, we have a larger catchment area than limerick aswell as more of the foreign multinational stores like footlocker etc aswell as many indigenous outlets on our well known shop street also we are the largest urban centre on the west coast ( with regards to limerick which is about the same size give or take shannon) we just got our first of 2 m&s stores with four new huge centre’s after recieving planning permission with debenhams anchoring one. galway has nearly everything cork has with the exception of a few which are on the way anyways and in some cases have stores that cork doesn’t even have eg the only louis copeland store outside of dublin aswell as the only bt2 store.. also 90% of our stores are located in the city centre or on its periphery unlike limerick which is gone retail park crazy and suffering from the doughnut effect with everything being located around the city outskirts and cork which had to build a large american style mall on its fringes to attract some decent stores to there city.. sorry for the long post but it really annoys me when i hear people from limerick or cork city making comments that galway isnt worthy of having decent shops or putting it down just because its smaller than cork just because it only really developed into irelands third city in the last 20 years. we don’t comment about how cork as european culture capital was the biggest joke of 2005..
The Cork and Limerick threads were not about Galway bashing! I the comments on Galway were due to people like you bragging on about it,
You should have notice there were positive points made about Galway too.
I myself have a lot of connections there so it’s not something I enjoy to brag about Galway. I will lead to say I don’t
In architectural terms it is less significant than to Cork or Limerick.
Comments made about Limerick were un =called for! The reason why retail developments are been pushed outside is because of the abnormal high rates and the boundary crises. Limerick and Cork are regenerating there cities centres and in my opinion are not making the same mistakes or well not to the extent Galway has in terms of planning and development. and your comments on Cork are also riduclous.
I’m not going to explain further because it’s not worth it.You do seem a bit of the hook here. Galway has been brought up on so many occasions, and the results of it were dead ending going no where .I can’t believe, 😮 you have sparked more city slinging; Keep your opinions a little more friendlier and less aggressive. Stick to the topics above! Have you read earlier posts regarding your comments? stop bringing up issues up that have cause stirred debates.
Your comments are nearly entirely rubbish, inappropriate and not relevant to the thread, 😡 As far as I’m concerned go create a Galway thread and stop throwing these comments into other threads and put it into the Galway thread if you really wish to express your “FACTS”This Galway thing is getting a bit annoying really, sorry folks for coming on here to explain this but enough is enough.
guys – thread is ‘Cork: Architecture & Development’ …. can we try to keep it on topic wherever possible? 🙂
With regard to Fleming Construction I’ve got to add that I also find their work stupendously lazy – with the new houses on Fota being particularly poor. Sure, it’s a sellers market at the mo’ – particularly for something based around a high-end golf development but the market changes and sadly we’ll be left with these things for a long time to come.
right, rant over, excuse me while I sod off on me Summer hols (yup, it know it’s Sep. 4th :confused: )
It seems controversy is already consuming the masses regarding OFC’s plans to lodge a €220m, 700 unit housing development at a 77-acre site in Ballinglanna near Glanmire. The development is within easy reach of the company’s other proposal for Dunkettle House, currently in appeal, for 629 units (though CorkCoCo only granted 527 of these units). Should the 2 proposals be granted, it would bring a total of 1329 new homes to the suburb of Glanmire, among the fastest growing in Ireland. Murphy Construction & Frinailla also have significant plans for the region. Question marks have been drawn over whether or not Glanmire as a community can sustain should a rapid increase in population. It is projected, should all the proposed units be filled, the area’s population is expected to grow by an estimated 5,000 over the next 7 to 8 years. A gentleman with CorkCoCo I had talked with yesterday said he was anxious on the successful growth of the Glanmire region – and developers will be pressed to make contributions to the development of community services to sustain the residential growth, i.e. extend school facilities, amenity grounds outside of contribution fees – much of which will now be geared for infastructural development over the coming years.
On a seperate note, Glanmire is unusual in that, for an area of its increasing size – it has no real town centre as such. Perhaps now is a ripe opportunity to provide the community with a significant and imaginative town centre development.
When I questioned the aforemntioned gentleman on whether CorkCoCo would ever consider allowing Glanmire to be bounded by CCC administration given its development and relation to the city – the answer was, ‘never say never, but unlikely’. A new public transport system would work very well in the area, linking it to the city centre over the coming years, I would posit a light-rail system (even connecting with the Glounthane/Midelton Arrow Lines) would work very well strategically and should be considered for development in tangent with new infastructural projects – which may, long-term, include a dual-carriageway connecting Glanmire with the Tivoli Dual-Carriagway, which may see an upgrade in the strategic future. This will ultimately link with the new National Route along Horgan’s Quay as part of Manor Park Homes’ €500m redevelopment project.
-> Regarding Horgan’s Quay, the project seems on schedule for a late October submission. It will, if successful be developed in 3 Phases, with a projected completion date of 2011/2012 (possibly later subject to planning). An event centre element may not be included as part of the initial application, but may follow subsequent (depending on the outcome of feasibility and design studies). Richard Collins is leading the design on the Horgan’s Quay redevelopment with architects O’Mahony Pike Architects. Tom Phillips Associates are the acting Town Planners, with John Gannon heading up consultations and Manor Park Homes will develop the project. CIE aim to submit a tandem application for a €20/25m redevelopment of Kent Station and adjoining new Bus Terminus.
Just wondering Lex as regards Horgan’s Quay when is the earliest you would envisage construction starting?? Presume we are talking late 2006 start of 2007?
nuh uh jammd! i ain’t being brought back into the “which city is better” situation, sorry. but i do agree with dave123 on a number of items and agree with theblimp in regards to go to a galway forum. but don’t kid yourself, firstly, it wouldn’t be very hard for galway to become western europes fastest growing city since it’s only in the last 5-10 years that people outside of ireland have heard of it’s name and secondly i think that galway lacks alot of infrastuctre that a modern city really needs. anyway, just forget everything i said….. moving on from all that, i read in the paper that another carphone warehouse is to open in cork, this time in ballincollig (new shopping centre presumably). and as regards for glanmire, definetly new roads and transport links will have to be added, the area is full of traffic as it, not to mention the amount of cars from all of the new houses and other developments being built, god bless the suburban rail, at least it’s getting people off the roads.
we don’t comment about how cork as european culture capital was the biggest joke of 2005
Oh, and p.s. i believe you just did comment on it, dumbass! cork deserved what it got, and unlike you, we don’t consider three pubs and a ceilàagus craic (however it’s spelled) the right to be given such a proud title.
@A-ha wrote:
Oh, and p.s. i believe you just did comment on it, dumbass! cork deserved what it got, and unlike you, we don’t consider three pubs and a ceilàagus craic (however it’s spelled) the right to be given such a proud title.
If every dig is followed by a kick and a spit – then it is not welcome on this thread. If people wish to be immature and descend to this level, private message if you must, but don’t drag the thread down with this type of attitude. City bashing is not assessed critique – defend your home and pride by all means, but that doesn’t mean it has to stoop low. Be the bigger person.
Also, simply because I’ve quoted on name, does not mean this post is specifically aimed at anyone in particular, it should apply across the board – myself included.
Matter closed – there should be no need to respond/justify etc etc, just bite the bullet and please return to the subjects at heart.
Thank you. 😮
@lexington wrote:
It seems controversy is already consuming the masses regarding OFC’s plans to lodge a €]real[/U] town centre as such. Perhaps now is a ripe opportunity to provide the community with a significant and imaginative town centre development.
When I questioned the aforemntioned gentleman on whether CorkCoCo would ever consider allowing Glanmire to be bounded by CCC administration given its development and relation to the city – the answer was, ‘never say never, but unlikely’. A new public transport system would work very well in the area, linking it to the city centre over the coming years, I would posit a light-rail system (even connecting with the Glounthane/Midelton Arrow Lines) would work very well strategically and should be considered.
Cork more so than any other Irish City (not that we have very many) contained sprawl better than most; it has one of the most logical retail cores I’ve ever seen and is a very pleasant user experience.
These proposals for Glanmire are overscaled and represent extremely poor land use they are a slap in the face to the CASP document which is possibly one of the most logical forward plans ever written with an unprecedented level of co-operation between Local Authorities. The genesis of the plan is the link between land use and transport planning; these proposals fly in the face of all the principles of developing self sustaining satelites. To propose a Luas line to connect with the heavy rail system for Glanmire would I fear represent little more than a patch and I can’t see the cost benfit analysis being favourable for a line to service low density housing. Large Scale Retail would not be appropriate for the Glanmire area at all and would only serve to accelerate the sprawl and related pressure on the Jack Lynch Tunnel which is already quite severe.
The strategy of Cork County Council is obviously to grant permission for a number of large car dependent housing estates to make the local road network enter gridlock so that they have an excuse to build the proposed ‘Northern Ring Road’. If they do future generations will not look favourably on this generation and how the special character of Cork was destroyed for short term gain.
@Leesider wrote:
Just wondering Lex as regards Horgan’s Quay when is the earliest you would envisage construction starting?? Presume we are talking late 2006 start of 2007?
Horgans Quay in my view will be a good deal longer than that, say 2010…..An application there can’t really move untill Irish Rail decide what they want to do with the station. Its suggested that two applications will be lodged together but Manor Park are not really happy with the Draft North Docks Area Plan so expect a fight, big development proposed – Council cuts the life out of it – appeal – nobody satisfied……….another applicaiton, plenty of objections etc……….
:confused: A number of city centre acquistions in recent times have sparked rumours of a landmark project in the making. It seems that a number of investors, of whom Joe O’Donovan is believed to be among them, have acquired a number of properties from Oliver Plunkett Street (The Qube complex) through to Patrick’s Street. It is believed a project is now being assessed to link these properties together – including Mount Kennett Investments & John Costello’s plans for the Capitol Cineplex. The precise nature of the development is not yet clear – although it is understood talks are on-going with CCC regarding the project’s impact on the English Market which may indeed be included in some form, in the link. Also, Pound City on Patrick’s Street has recently been sold quietly through Lisney auctioneers – this may yet prove to be a further addition to plans, perhaps? More details on all the speculation soon.
Also Thomond Park, I agree about Cork’s management of urban sprawl – indeed it is one of it’s more attractive features in terms of urban planning. Throughout my time on Archiseek, I have regularly expressed my dismay at some of the housing project proposed around the city’s environs. I recognise the requirement for such projects, but in many cases I can’t justify the endless monotonous patterns of housing estates that stain much of our country’s land. Indeed, that’s not to say there are some very fine efforts in place – and there are – but quite often, this is not the case. Regarding Glanmire, I believe naturally – given it’s proximity to the city and a strong infastructural network – the region’s development is somewaht inevitable, however, although I generally believe OFC have demonstrated themselves as, perhaps, one of Cork’s more design conscious developers – the nature and scale of their developments at Dunkettle & Ballinglanna have me a little apprehensive – especially in light of the existing infastructure in Glanmire (and I mean schools, shops etc as well as transport). I do not think a town centre development would be out of the question at all, were in integrated and respectful (OFC’s BTC project is a good example of how a town centre can integrate into the existing framework of a town – however I accept Ballincollig is a whole different ball-game to Glanmire). I suppose I posited such a development in light of the such inevitable development – if CorkCoCo are going to continue endorsing it, a proper infastructure needs to be put in place. To argue against such a startegy and still see these estates spring up irrespective creates more long term damage regarding the management of the area. The town centre project should be a focused community based development – where the town to develop under its current layout, it would actually put greater strain on traffic management issues given the dispersed nature of the area and its commercial activities ie. Sallybrook to the north, Hazelwood mid-way and Glanmire village to the south. Utilisation of the roads is required to afford linkage between these locales – a centralised town centre focus with appropriate infastructure could allow for a better strategic management of this situation long-term. However, I can also seek argumentative issues to this. As for public transport, a track-based bus system could be a sustainable option – I wouldn’t specifically advocate a LUAS style system – as you say the CBA would not be favourable.
@lexington wrote:
A number of city centre acquistions in recent times have sparked rumours of a landmark project in the making. It seems that a number of investors, of whom Joe O’Donovan is believed to be among them, have acquired a number of properties from Oliver Plunkett Street (The Qube complex) through to Patrick’s Street. It is believed a project is now being assessed to link these properties together – including Mount Kennett Investments & John Costello’s plans for the Capitol Cineplex. The precise nature of the development is not yet clear – although it is understood talks are on-going with CCC regarding the project’s impact on the English Market which may indeed be included in some form, in the link. More details soon.
Some shopping centres in the UK have incorporated existing markets into them so hopefully something like that will happen here
I think the idea of including the english market would be a great idea and a totally different shopping experience possibly even calling the whole development the english market. Its a pity that the brog and qube complex will be knocked though because I fear cork is losing too many pubs and clubs in recent years. Can anybody confirm that the roundy on daunt square is to be turned into a phone shop and what is happening with lebowskis on marlboro st. With the increased population we need more places for leisure and entertainment so the planners need to be carefull of getting rid of small pubs etc areound the city.
@securityman wrote:
I think the idea of including the english market would be a great idea and a totally different shopping experience possibly even calling the whole development the english market. Its a pity that the brog and qube complex will be knocked though because I fear cork is losing too many pubs and clubs in recent years. Can anybody confirm that the roundy on daunt square is to be turned into a phone shop and what is happening with lebowskis on marlboro st. With the increased population we need more places for leisure and entertainment so the planners need to be carefull of getting rid of small pubs etc areound the city.
If the Qube is knocked, you have to remember the other little purchases Joe O’Donovan has made recently, the former Christian Youth Centre at Paradise Place – which is ideally located in the heart of Cork’s nightlife district and The Coal Quay Bar on Cornmarket Street, next to the The Loft also bagged. Though the Loft & Coal Quay are more suited to a vertically extended retail centre, the Paradise Place premises is 8,000sq ft of potential nightclub in an unrivalled location. Mr. O’Donovan acquired this premises last year for 2.2m euros – well above the 975,000 euro guide price set by Dominic Daly Auctioneers.
I think the incorporation of The English Market into an large retail facility could work well, and certainly bring greater prominence and traffic to the little jewel itself – however it will have to be done very very cleverly and will need big money spent on an intelligent and attractive design. Part of the complex is expected to connect with the Capitol Cineplex department store redevelopment plan – however one prays this is not the standard of design set, although revised plans are anticipated soon (subject to other backroom discussions). Surely fuel to the fire will only be added by the recent sale of Pound City through auctioneers Lisney – this 2,000sq ft (ground floor only) premises actually borders close to the rear of the Capitol Cineplex.
I think the idea of a multi themed retail facility here is a very attractive proposition. first off its frontage is excellent, going by what your post seems to propose lexington. A frontage on Patricks St, Grand Parade and Oliver Plunkett st is pretty impressive. The mix of uses seems most attractive too and could very well satisfy those better who are disenchanted with faceless retail malls like Blanchardstown and the like. Having the English market, the proposed department store (Arnotts is it?) for th Capital cinema plus whatever else appeals to me far more than say whats planned for Academy street, though i understand it will serve its purpose well no doubt. i am concerned about 2 things however, how this development will affect the market during construction and whether its impact external and/or internal is negative. I would be dead oppose to anything that takes away from the market, one of Corks most important and unique attractions. Any massing that impacts the facades or interior of the market should be resisted.
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