justnotbothered

@CologneMike wrote:

The bottom line for me was to bring a little bit balance to the “Limerick Boat Club” topic.

To say that the plans are crap is farcical. The Ennis Road side needs some improvement and the pier location maybe controversial, but these plans are never crap!

You aren’t bringing balance, you’re cheerleading for an ugly building in a sensitive site.

The plans are absolute rubbish, I’m old enough to remember the many promises which came with Cruises street, Arthurs Quay Shopping centre and Steamboat quay to be as easily impressed by some lego inspired rubbish flung up on the river. It’s so utterly out of character with it’s surrounds that I struggle to see how you can see any merit in it.

The reason the you might have felt there wasn’t any balance to this topic is because when 9 out of 10 people can see a proposal is crap, it’s always going to bring about an unbalanced discussion. If we all rounded up against Steamboat Quay would you suddenly feel a burning desire to praise it? Or if we all felt Todds was looking a bit shabby, would you suddenly see careful, exotic nuances in it’s design which we have somehow missed?

Again, I’m surprised you stake any part of your reputation on this site by defending and cheerleading this project.

@CologneMike wrote:

It was my understanding that the main thrust of this proposal were for . . . .

Proposals for the facility off Sarsfield Bridge are to coincide with Limerick city’s regeneration programme and the ‘riverside city’ development and include a museum, coffee shops, tourist information services, facilities for the theatre and the arts as well as a new pedestrian bridge linking the facility to Harvey’s Quay and up onto the newly pedestrianised Bedford Row. “Our objective is to take advantage of the current riverside city programme to improve our facilities, while at the same time securing the future of Limerick Boat Club on Sarsfield Bridge and thereby promoting the sport of rowing in Limerick for generations to come,” said Dermot Moloney, president, Limerick Boat Club

Mr Daly added that he believes this development should “regenerate Limerick Boat Club” and believes it is a “joint venture”, rather than a commercially driven project.

He said his “dream is to have a restaurant on the top floor and have people say that when they come to Limerick they must go the restaurant on the top floor.” A coffee shop could also be located towards the front of the building, where people could overlook the River Shannon, but Mr Daly said he does not “want to dictate the use as it may fly in the face of the planning process.” Source Limerick Leader

Sure, people would easily agree on what solid commercial architecture is, but to find a common census on inspiring artworks depends on the eye of the beholder.

Architect Sean McCann said their design takes its inspiration from “ship hulls, lightweight fabric sails, rowing oars and robust sea walls.”

Evaluating the contents of the NIAH?

If I dare ask, what were the merits for this modest clubhouse structure (c.100 year old) to make its way into NIAH in the first place? Why was the boat storage shed not included as well?

If we take a look at all the components of the bridge that are listed in the NIAH i.e. Sarsfield Bridge, Shannon Boat Club, 1916 Memorial, Limerick Boat Club, Floating Dock (Wellesley Pier and Harvey’s Quay), Lock (Honan’s Quay) (click also additional images) and then assign to each structure a merit note lets say from 1 to 10. Then my subjective order of merit would shape out like this . . . .

Note 10: Sarsfield Bridge
Note 9: Floating dock (Wellesley Pier / Harvey’s Quay)
Note 9: Lock (Honan’s Quay)
Note 7: Shannon Boat Club House
Note 6: Memorial (1916 Rising)
Note 3: Limerick Boat Club House

Therefore in my opinion, my lowly merit note for the “Limerick Boat Club House” would be enough to justify the City Councils right to re-consider its importance in the interest of the city when comparing the benefits of the Fordmount’s proposal as against the heritage loss of the original clubhouse.

The real big issue for me is the potential damage this proposal can inflict on the character of the bridge / floating dock but not the loss of this clubhouse building!

Value wise, I think the city is being offered a good deal in that we are trading-in a “boat” here and getting a “ship” in return!

Are we bold enough to risk change with this contemporary design with its proposed daily use to enhance Limerick’s finest structure?

[align=center:9fz9pe6l]Or[/align:9fz9pe6l]

Are we reckless enough to change forever with this contemporary design with its proposed daily use to debase Limerick’s finest structure?

Personally this is a hard one to call?

You’re a dreamer Mike if you take the developer at his word.

We’re effectively building a block with no windows facing either Poor Man’s Kilkee or Sarsfield bridge. Don’t be fooled by words, look at the plans and see for yourself how crap they are.

Limerick Boat Club have no rowers btw, they couldn’t even arrange a social, masters crew this year, ffs.

@jpsartre wrote:

T

As for the boat club I recall reading in one of the local rags that Councillor Leddin and the developers were hopeful of a favorable response on their delisting app. given the slowdown in the economy etc. I don’t believe they’ve had the go ahead yet. Fordmount (developers?) got their own guy in to pronounce on it’s architectural merits, and whether it ought to be listed. Surprisingly he said he did’nt think so, citing the Belfast roof as the only thing remotely interesting about either building. His reasoning being that all the changes made to the interiors of the buildings offset any heritage value they may otherwise have had. Horlicks of course.

There are two councillor Leddin’s on Limerick City Council

Cllr. Joe Leddin (Labour) is a member of Limerick Boat Club and is in favour of the development.

Cllr. Kathleen Leddin (Independent) is against the development.

I’m afraid the wind is blowing with Joe Leddin at the minute, Fine Gael and Labour are going to vote in favour of the development, which will, imo, destroy the city centre. We’ll spend the next 20 years trying to get rid of it.

It’s not so much the loss of Boat Club buildings, but the damage the development will do to the entire waterfront. Still, if Limerick City Council have shown anything in the last century or so, it’s that they are determined to make Limerick as ugly as possible. Harvey’s Quay, the Sarsfield Hotel, Dunnes Stores, Todds, AIB, BOI, Arthur’s Quay, Mungret St, Cornmarket, the list is long and depressing.

@Dreamstate wrote:

The City Council Planners and Jim Henson’s characters have a lot in common ….

The Georgian Centre extends from Bank Place along Patrick & Rutland Street / Arthurs Quay onto O’Connell Street but LCC now say that it never really did !!!! They will only allow buildings of historic importance to be knocked to facilitate development .

Is Tiger Lillies gone yet ? Quins is due for demolition next ,,, Patrick / Rutland is about to be castrated …..

As I said before …. Limerick City Council view any development as good development.

The Limerick planning section seems to be in awe of any developer who once played for Munster , Ireland and any developer who uses a Dublin architect . . . . But then again , the GOBSHITE Councillors seem to rule the roost

You overrate the Councillors importance in planning in Limerick. The real issue is the planning office doesn’t have the energy or ability to decide what type of city it wants Limerick to be. The Councillors can object to or endorse a project, but most of the development in Limerick is not happening on council or State land.

Limerick City Hall is populated by some of the worst Civil Servants in Ireland, from housing right through to planning. These people are both unanswerable to anybody and uninterested in the city. The council have been relegated to a rubberstamp committee rather than a driving force in Limerick.

@Dreamstate wrote:

It still amazes me that Arthurs Quay Park ( which is more popular than ever since the railings came down ) is to be built upon without any public backlash. This forum seems to be resigned to the fact.

Buildings PREVIOUSLY within the Architectural Conservation Area to be demolished to make room for the Opera Centre …..

‘ Any development is good development ‘ seems to be Limerick City Councils motto

The plans are still very far from any sense of completion but quite a few councillors have spoken out against them. Personally i think it’s be shame to lose any parkland, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t examine what’s being suggested.

From what i’ve seen the plan is to move the park to the current site of Sarsfield house, and knock the wall surrounding the potato market.

@tomk wrote:

Retail research company Crest’s annual shopping centre review ranked three shopping centres in Limerick amongst the 10 worst performers in the country. In 50th and last place was Jetland shopping centre while Castletroy and Parkway were also in the bottom ten.

That type of throw-away line means nothing unless you see the overall review, not that I’m hugely surprised by it.

@Tuborg wrote:

Redemptorist Monastery, South Circular Road, Limerick.

An Bord Pleanala has given the go ahead to the Redemptorists for a residential development on their lands on the Soth Circular Road, albeit on a reduced scale. Full report here

My God, that area simply can’t manage the traffic as it is. To put 200 apartments there is utter folly.

What do they mean by “extend” I wonder. Odd building, could easily be part of a masons film.

@vkid wrote:

Probably going to get slated here but its my opinion.

While protected, those structures just look like old sheds to me. NOthing particularly beautiful about either structure on that side of the bridge. The Boat house itself is a nice building externally but the two red brick structures are pretty poor imo. As far as I can see neither really interact with the river/bridge or city in any way. They are hidden when driving across the bridge, they look like crap from the city side and you would barely notice them from the Shannon bridge. Internally there is also very little to retain or restore.

I also can’t see any worthwhile uses for them as they stand that would really bring any real benefit to the city. One was used as a music venue for some time and while it served a purpose for a small few, it was not the right place for a music venue of that nature. Internally you would never, ever think you were in a protected structure. It was like a dingy GAA club. If there are any original features in there they are well hidden.

Overall I really dont think they add anything amazing to the city or river in their current form. While I would like to see some devlopment on the site I think it needs to be sympathetic to the boat house itself, i’m not too worried about the two red brick structures…If the right building was proposed for the site, and I think someone with vision could propose something a bit better than what is currently on the table, I would have no objection to these being demolished OR in fact, moving them and reconstructing them somewhere they may be of more value to the city. Buildings this size have been moved and reconstructed many times,,,,why not this?

I’m all for preservation/conservation but not for the sake of it and I think this is a building that really doesnt merit so much attention. There is much more interesting buildings in the city that deserve more attention than this is getting..

Just my opinion though

But what do think of what’s proposed?

Of course, if the boatclub moved, the actual boat shed itself would make a pretty nifty venue imo. It’d be great for intimate gigs. The smaller club house could remain as a bar or coffee house or anything. Plenty of places for outdoor seating for example.

To me, the talk of the boatclub going to wall is premature to say the least.

I would love to have seen the Boatclub re-engage with the city in a meaningful way, how, by moving to the soon to be regenerated Island field. I know it’s a little off the wall, but it makes sense. They have no members or facilities, the regeneration could provide then with facilities on the river as part of it’s remit. The number of apartments and houses proposed should utterly alter this area into something akin to Smithfield, namely, a healthy mix of middle class, students and council housing.

The Boatclub could be central to new sporting facilities built for the Island field. Imagine a Grove Island type development, only based around a rowing club, not a rugby club. I think with proper management, the locals would gain an established club, the club would gain a new area to attract members, the Government could pick up the tab for the development. All the reports I’ve read on the regeneration stress providing sporting facilities in these areas.

I’m not pretending it’s the ideal solution, but it’s better than what’s currently being proposed.

@Dreamstate wrote:

Councillors .mmmmmh . . . . I’m sure that they’ll do the right thing architecturally . .

Well doing nothing with that site is better than what’s being proposed. The proposed Boatclub design is hideous, absolutely hideous. If that’s the best that architects can currently envisage, i suggest we shoot one on every 10 of them until they get the notion of not building cheap rubbish everywhere.