justnotbothered
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@Tuborg wrote:
Just on the subject of damaged buildings, a georgian on Cecil Street (no.8) looks to be in serious danger of collapse. The building is in terrible shape, it appears the uppers floors are effectively being held in place by scaffolding, although some sections seem to have already given way. The street in front has also been cordoned off!
8 Cecil Street (2005)
Cecil street is such a waste of potential. It should mark the start of restored Georgian Limerick, but it looks like something from the 1980’s. We’re still waiting for the Arthouse Cinema in the old theatre Royal….
Rather than get hung up about the height of the tower, which will almost certainly be refused, why not examine the validity of this project. The entire area is due for a large change, with the main Garda station reputed to be located there, a new Court House built by the prison, the change of use of St. Joseph’s and the ongoing issue of how best to develop the Market’s field.
In addition, William St. is due to be refurbished this Winter, how do we want this undistinguished part of Limerick be developed? Gerald Griffith St. was once the cultural heart of the city, and down by the Geraldine bar is where the city first developed outside of the city walls. Both areas are poor reflections of what they once were.
With the Civic Trust re-developing the monument off St. John’s Square, the continued success of Daghda, the refurbishment of St. John’s Cathedral, it’s clear the general area is improving, how does O’Callaghan’s plan fit into the greater scheme?
It certainly would be different, but I pass that area every day, or close to it anyhow, and honestly, that part of town is virtually derelict. 18 storeys may be on the high side, but the overall concept is worth investigating. The streets there have little or no merit (imo) and the area could gain from the investment,
You are too quick to focus all of Limerick’s development on the river Mike. While it’s great it finally being appreciated, the rest of city needs projects like this too.
Black and White hides a multitude of sins though. As it is you can see from the original picture (1910) the street wasn’t constructed in a uniform fashion. I suspect we have an idealised concept of Limerick City Centre that never existed.
I remember reading that originally the site of the Augustian Church block was meant to be an open square, but the Church forced it’s way onto it and the other buildings were flung up along side the Church once the square concept was lost. Possibly one of the biggest disasters in Limerick’s city centre, as it means Limerick has no central square and the city centre is reduced to a series of junctions.
We need to accept the reality of much of the Georgian stock in Limerick was shoddily built and probably looked poor a few years after being built. As a concept, Georgian Limerick was fine, but i don’t think the concept was fully realised and we left in the odd position of trying to save buildings that don’t have much merit. My biggest objection to the Opera Centre isn’t that it will remove some low-rise and unremarkable buildings, but what it proposes is simply a poor design. I could accept losing some of Ellen Street if what was being proposed was a huge leap forward architecturally , but it appears to be wanton destruction for destructions sake. Internally I accept a lot of these buildings are unsuitable for a shopping centre layout, but the facades needn’t be.
The City Council should determine the city centre we wish to have, and make developers work within that framework, not as is currently happening, waiting for developers to propose the cheapest possible design and then falling over themselves to accept it.
Btw, am about to submit my first ever planning objection, in relation to Limerick Boat Club, wish me luck!
In relation to the 6 rowing clubs in Limerick Urban Area, 4 are in the city centre, one is located in UL and one in Castleconell.
Only two city centre clubs are actively as rowing clubs, in reality.
St. Michaels, used to be the poorer cousin of Shannon and Limerick Boat Club, has become one of the best rowing clubs in Ireland in recent years, two-time World Champion Sculler, and Olympian, Sam Lynch rowed out of there. Won the Big Pot last year with 2 members of Shannon in the 8.
Athlunkard, has been rejuvenated after the clubhouse was burned down in the 1990’s, and is steadily re-appearing on the scene, had a top class Junior rower recently, think he is moving on to the senior ranks now. Got Irish honours when he was 16 iirc.
Shannon, more of a social club, hasn’t had a serious crew since the pair in the 1990’s. The pair have since reformed and are rowing in a Shannon/St. Michaels composite. No sign of any new rowers coming through their ranks, but they still have a pretty prestigious name.
Limerick Boat Club. Well, pretty much have fallen apart and will probably be impossible to revive even if this development goes ahead, for the simple reason that demographic shifts mean there is no longer the numbers to support another city centre club. Limerick haven’t had a serious crew since the 1980’s (afaik) and were so badly run back then that they let themselves fall apart. Would take a lot more than a shiny glass building to save it, which is a pity because it used to be a decent club.
UL, not really rated on the national scene, but are serious about becoming a major player. Have made huge investments in clubhouse etc.
Castleconnell, not too sure, were active in the 1990’s but seem to have drifted a bit since.
In short, of all the clubs in Limerick, Limerick Boat Club are in the weakest position. Will take a huge effort to get the club revived. Maybe it can be done, but frankly, I’d rather have a nice city centre and riverfront than support a dwindling club that let itself be run into the ground. If St. Michaels can prosper while LBC collapses, surely it shows that LBC is simply a poorly run club who’s time has run-out. The city should not maintain it just to keep a few former rowers happy. Would love to see Limerick Boat Club provide a list of how many active members it has, and how long it’s been since each of them were either involved in rowing or running the club.
Imo, the way for Limerick to revive itself is not to worry about shiny new buildings but to get involved in bringing new rowers into the club. It let it’s main slip way degenerate to the point where it is seriously unsafe now, it has no under-age crews (and hasn’t had an underage crew in over 5 years (afaik)), it has no senior crews, so exactly how many rowers are left in the club? I know I’m labouring the point, but think it’s bizarre to give such a poorly run club another chance to run itself into the ground.
@vkid wrote:
From the inital images, i have to say I klind of like it but that my own opinion. I do like the old boat club but it does look like a shed and sometimes I feel the site is a bit wasted. Depending on the details my opinion could change though. Its a delicate site but this looks like it could work ..(if cheap green cladding or some such nonsense doesnt appear..)
What’s the point in building on the river if one side (the poor man’s kilkee side) seems to have no windows? Another steamboat quay, only in glass, imo.
I might be way off here, but isn’t it possible this development will actually reduce the number of cars on the road?
A shopping centre, even a low-rise one will accommodate more people than a hotel and apartment complex, unless it’s a truly huge hotel and hundreds of apartments?
Imo, there’s definitely something dodgy about the way Limerick CC are rushing to help this development, even going so far as to mention it in their plans for footpaths for the Strand.
Is it simply incompetence or something more sinister?
What they are planning for there is so unspeakably hideous it’s almost amazing. Almost makes one glad house prices are dropping so maybe the market for these developments will wane.
Was reading in the business section of the Sunday Times that there is a 12 storey building planned for the site of the Smyths store on Henry St. I’ve looked for the article online but can’t seem to find it. I presume any building would look to incorporate the Youth Services building (the one storey building next to Smyths).
@KeepAnEyeOnBob wrote:
justnotbothered:
I was under the impression it was 1930s the current building was built, the original building indeed having been much older. 50s/60s seems very unlikely, there’s no way it was only 20/30 years old back in the 1980s for example.
Dan:
How does the procedure for that work?
Nope, pretty sure there was a spate of fires in that area in the late 1950’s, the Roches building was one that burnt down, was rebuilt in the 1960’s. I don’t think it’s worth keeping either way, it’s an alright building but the area could be improved by a better one.
The Debenhams building isn’t as old as you’d think. It’s a rebuilt version of one that burned down in the 1950’s or 1960’s iirc.
Interesting to see the various developments about town, the work is due to start on O’Callaghans strand in the coming weeks.
@shanekeane wrote:
Ya it would add at least one thing to the city: a giant glass sphere. Since the city currently consists mainly of badly maintained georgian buildings, a bunch of intimidating ugly central streets and a lifeless riverside, then anything out of the ordinary would make it better. I can’t imagine anybody even beginning to object in this fashion to the garbage that is the dunnes building on henry st., that marriott hotel building, the bank of scotland building, that ugly crap just being finished further up from it, the clarion hotel, the riverpoint building, and the entire dock road. Well that’s not working is it?
Oh please, a giant rotating glass sphere? Can’t to see this is just some sort of left over April fool joke?
Also, judging by the artist’s impression, it’s being built adjacent to the Condell road, with in it’s current state simply can’t take any more traffic, traffic jams are stretching out towards the two mile inn at the minute, even if the tunnel does relieve some of the traffic problems, that shouldn’t be a license to fling more traffic on to the road.
That parcel of land should be preserved and turned into a riverside park, the city needs more parks and green spaces before it needs giant rotating glass globes.
Let’s make the city centre better by building things that make it a better place to live, like parks and playgrounds etc, not fanciful pie-in-the-sky projects.
@shanekeane wrote:
massamann, its because of complete cretins like u that potentially the most beautiful city in ireland is a fucking dump. why have interesting ideas when we can build more of the tat that they built on the dock road and henry st.
You aren’t serious are you?
This is clearly ripped off from the famous “sunsphere” episode of the Simpsons, what next, a monorail?
@Nautiman wrote:
Dan,
To quote you on the Limerick Blogger 28/12/06 12:42am
“The rest of us will take the sensible course of reviewing the planning application and using the democratic process to make our objections or submissions should we have them while you send your time carping on the the comments section of someone else’s blog.”No planning application has been lodged by Limerick Boat Club so what planning application are you reviewing regarding the proposed development? I believe the Boat Club usable are will increase by over 160%.
The plans have been around since April, as I’m sure you know Nautiman. What to you think of the two storey, windowless wall facing the river?
Course, why we need a Boat Club with no crews is a separate matter.
I have seen draft plans for the Limerick Boat club site, and predictably enough, it promises alot without delivering anything. It has at least 2 storeys with no windows facing the river, just bare plating.
The glass section looks interesting, but I have doubts over whether it’ll be anything other than the usual high quality drawing, low quality building crap. It’s also quite high, it will completely block views of Shannon rowing club from the Shannon bridge. The part reserved for the Boat Club is quite small, but I guess that’s fitting, after all, they were the incompetent ones who ran their club into the ground anyway.
It’s just another crap building to add to the crap buildings that are currently so beloved by our esteemed City leaders.
The obvious solution is to knock the Islands field and redevelop that stretch of the river, it’s probably the nicest stretch in Limerick but it’s surrounded by social housing and some of the worse criminals in Ireland. A high rise centre there could be merged with the only medieval centre.
@Paris Jack wrote:
You can’t stop progress! No-matter how hard you try to stop developments like this you’re just going to have to live with it in the end! If developers with enough power and money start making plans for these sensitive sites then it’s only a matter of time before it happens! If you think this is completely unrealistic then you have no idea mate! A 32-storey building is nothing thesedays for Gods sake! Whether it’s in the those wetlands or not! I agree these wetlands should be protected, but I also believe in the growth that Limerick City has to make in the 21st century! I personally know several major developers (not including my uncle) who have been keeping their eyes on some of these stretches of riverbank… so don’t be surprised if one of these days you see a fifty or sixty-storey icon somewhere in those wetlands! A development of this magnitude can be incorporated into the wetlands quite easily actually… and you know, if certain people in Limerick don’t like it then they do have the option of moving to Cork, or Dublin!
The reality here is about MONEY!!! You wave enough of it around and you’ll see exactly what you’ll end up with! And if you think a few local cavemen “politicians” are going to put their foot on on then don’t kid yourself! Where there is massive construction/development and money there is also massive corruption! They can’t exist without each other! But try telling some people that! The thing is also, I know for a fact (100%) that there are major developments such as these coming to Limerick… so like it or not, things are going to change a lot more than you might ever imagine!
I’ve nothing against progressive developments, but surely the recent flooding in England has proved for once and for the all the ultimate stupidity in building on flood plains and wetlands. These places exist for a reason.
Considering the length of time it took to build Riverpoint, 13 storeys, I think you’re being over optimistic that the developer, is actually serious about this. Chances are he really wants to build a new steam boat quay but wants to sell it as lower Manhattan.
