well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

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    • #707815
      dave123
      Participant

      Limerick City,

      Limerick is Ireland’s third city! It’s a beautiful city with the majestic river Shannon that flows through the old English town (king John castle) and beside the splendid Georgian town. It was the first ever grid planned town, designed by Newton Perry.

      There is a wide range of architecture through the ages, from the Vikings to Normans to the prosperous medieval times, the Glorious Georgian of the 18th and 19th centuries
      And finally the changes of today.

      There is a lot of bad press about limerick been a rough and no go area. It’s as safe as any other city in Ireland if not safer! The city is really changing. Its becoming recognised a European Riverside city with its bold new designs and high-rise buildings at the limerick docklands, the new park canal project linking University of Limerick (one of the most successful modern Universities off today) with the city centre.
      It’s the fastest growing commercial core after the Dublin area.

      The regeneration of the city centre, becoming more pedestrian friendly with streets becoming pedsrianised and booming the mass tourism coming to see this diverse and changing city.
      And this is going to even rocket further as new routes to Shannon airport.

      Anybody that has not been in Limerick lately there is to high-rise building been built at spaights corner (river point) and is 15 storeys and (sty munchins) 12 storeys high, looks quite cool!!! Its opposite that clarion hotel and really and enhances the area.

      Please keep new developments, architecture, news, views and your thoughts posted!!!!!

    • #753059
      jimg
      Participant

      Limerick is great. The Georgian quarter is second only to Dublin’s Georgian in Ireland and really deserves more attention. Unfortunately, the city’s architectural fabric has been badly damaged over the last 50 or 60 years even more so than Dublin in my opinion. There’s been tonnes of medieval stuff lost in Limerick during the period while I reckon there was little of that age in Dublin anyway. It’s a great pity because Limerick was apparently the most impressive city in Ireland in the early 16th century because of the prosperity brought by trading. John’s castle and St. Mary’s are nice but have no context today. Even up to the 1940s and 1950s there were remains of the old walls visible all over Irishtown and Englishtown and a true mediaval character to those parts of town. The tiny sections of the old wall left today are a reminder of what’s been lost; they’re huge – about the height of a modern 3 story building. Even over the last 10 or 20 years they’ve altered what was left of the medieval street patterns of King’s Island. Kings Island is now effectivly a large council housing estate with two medieval landmarks.

      I also like the new taller developments along the docks. The river is so wide here that the height of the buildings works very well although many of the buildings are pretty boring in other respects. From O’Callaghan’s strand or coming into the city from the Ennis Rd, they provide a strong statement that the city begins at the water’s edge; so it really feels like you are “entering” a city when you cross the bridges (from the north), instead of the the usual experience in Irish cities where there are long boring transitions between countryside, suburbia, older suburbia and the town centre.

      I’ve heard conflicting opinions from visitors to Limerick. A number of people I know (non-Irish) raved about the city and found it to be very beautiful while most Irish people who visit come away with a negative impression. Perhaps this is because of it’s reputation.

    • #753060
      modular man
      Participant

      I agree that limerick has some very high quality streetscapes, especially the Georgian areas however my impression (irish person, not from Limerick) is that it lacks any quality public spaces (the streetscapes aside). I never feel like there is a central point. Aurthers quay park is vastly underused addition which feels too tucked away from O’ Connel street behind a Dunnes stores which has seen better days.
      I think that a lot people from outside Limerick only know it as they used to have to pass through on the way to Clare or kerry and have the impression of a one street town. Limerick has a lot of potential and there has been enormous improvements over the past fifteen years. I hope this trend continues.
      I also think that the by-pass from the Castletroy side is one of the most important projects for the city and years overdue. I presume it has opened as live abroad so have not visited in a couple of years. Has it made a big difference?
      It would be good if This thread could be kept updated in the same fashion as the ‘look at the state of Cork’ thread.

    • #753061
      dave123
      Participant

      A lot of people who pass through limerick dont see much of the historic city
      because the english town and the historic charming Mary street beside king joh’s castle is hidden from passers by
      i would agree with O’Connells st just as a main street and the city is lacking public space or a “centre”

      Iheard that there is major plans for a open area along bakers place near O’Connells street which is part of the city centre regeneration and pedstrianisation which is been held up until the shannon tunnel is built i think.
      The plan is pedresrtrianising part of O’Connells st , baker place and catherdhal st and linking cruises street

      i do think Oconnells street really needs a real facelift! let’s hope it will comee soon!

    • #753062
      dave123
      Participant

      to answer your question about the castletroy by pass
      i think it has improved the traffic situation at that side of the city not only to the city but commuters and people who wish to travel onwards to kerry and beyond.
      lots of warehousing and retail warehousing is either underconstruction or booming along it.
      the downside is waiting for the shannon tunnel to link up with the bypass because there are still thousands of cars going through the city that wish to go to shannon and the rest of clare.So we will have to wait for a few more years…. hope that answers yours question .

    • #753063
      Rhino
      Participant

      Don’t forget about the People’s Park off Pery Square at the top of the town!

    • #753064
      Cute Panda
      Participant

      I have not been to Limerick for a while. Can somebody post links to photos of the city at it’s best? Both new and old.

    • #753065
      JPD
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland’s third city

      Galway is Ireland’s third City and largest sprawling retail warehousing park. Don’t get me started on Limerick

    • #753066
      jimg
      Participant

      Galway has a smaller population than Limerick and is dwarved economically by Limerick. Limerick and Cork have “grand” centres; i.e. tallish building and wide “city” streets while Galway is a small country town now hidden by a sprawl of roundabouts, suburban housing estates and shopping centres.

      Galway is a real disapointment. I used to love visiting it back when it had a sort of hayday in the late 80s/early 90s. For years, I’d recommend it to anyone visiting Ireland or contemplating a visit and used to spend time there myself at every opportunity. Slowly over the last 10 years I’ve started to realise that just like Limerick suffers somewhat unjustly from its bad reputation (another city I visit often), Galway has been benefitting from an unreasonably positive reputation for years. Besides the planning issues, it’s turned into a town with serious anti-social problems because of its “Temple Bar” like atmosphere and little to recommend for it during the day besides a small area between Eyre Sq and Bridge St./Mill St. Admittedly, I’m probably overcompensating by being negative because of my earlier enthusiasm for the place. For me, Limerick is a far more interesting place than Galway.

    • #753067
      anto
      Participant

      Interesting thread. Limerick deserves to feature here more. Limerick has turned to face the shannon quite successfully over the last 15 years or so.

      On the downside Georgian buildings badly disfigured by the pvc window plague. Traffic seems terrible. Hardly a bus lane or a cycle lane anywhere, even around the university!!

      THe crime thing seems to have calmed down for the time being so that’s one thing. Limerick’s image problem is not a new thing but in some ways its lack of pretence and Blarney/Temple bar nonsence is quite refreshing. It’s a real place!

    • #753068
      dave123
      Participant

      Does anybody know is there anymore high rise buildings planned for the limerick docklands ???

      just want give two facts that people m,ight not know about limerick city

      limerick is the third wealtiest place in ireland after dublin nd kildare !!!!!!
      its IS SAFER THAN Cork or DUBLIN!!!
      CHEERIO!!!

    • #753069
      lexington
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      limerick is…
      its IS SAFER THAN Cork or DUBLIN!!!
      CHEERIO!!!

      Em…statistically that’s actually not true about Cork, but I totally agree that Limerick gets unfair treatment in the media and the like – and you’re perfectly right about defending that.

      Af for high-rise projects planned for Limerick, other than those already under construction, I’m only aware of 1 other project – but I’ll get back to you on that when I know more about it.

    • #753070
      kefu
      Participant

      Couldn’t agree more with the earlier points made about Galway? In ten year’s time – it will be a model for how not to develop a city.
      We all know Dublin is bad for planning but Galway is making the very same mistakes and magnifying them five-fold.
      The new ring road is being built with out-of-town shopping centres as its first priority rather than funnelling traffic away from the city centre.
      ‘Galway is Ireland’s … largest sprawling retail warehousing park’ – a perfect description.

    • #753071
      backspace
      Participant

      limerick quays with riverpoint building (under construction)
      i think that when the chunnel opens they ll do a version of o’connell st on o connell st, widen pavements etc etc.

      http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=39643&papass=&sort=1
      http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=39646&papass=&sort=1

    • #753072
      d ryan
      Participant

      yeah, i also heard of rumours that a block on o connells street wher supermacs is situated is being knocked (apart from supermacs itself) for new develpments .
      i think henry street is really looking cool ! if you think back 3 or four years ago the state it was in !
      building is everywhere in the city at the moment!! good for limerick!!!

      wish i had a intelligent computer that could load som pictures ………lol oh well

    • #753073
      BTH
      Participant
      jimg wrote:
      Galway has a smaller population than Limerick and is dwarved economically by Limerick. Limerick and Cork have “grand” centres]

      Not so sure about the supposed “anti social problems” you mention. As someone who lives and works in Galway city centre I can honestly say it’s one of the safest feeling places I have ever been at any time of the day or night. Sure there are rowdies about and it gets as messy as anywhere else on St.Patricks Day. However the overriding feeling in Galway is relaxed and friendly and it is a place that benefits rather than suffers from its nightlife and the “party” atmosphere. Galway has many other faults of course, the vast majority to do with poor planning and traffic chaos. However it is still a city in transition with huge land-banks on the verge of opening up right in the city centre. Proposals are in action to move the bus depot and goods yards away from the area behind the Great Southern in Eyre Sq. opening up a swathe of development land from the square to Lough Atalia. The first moves are being made to remove harbour activity from the city centre docks to a newly constructed facility thus clearing the way for marina and dockland developments replacing the current ugly array of scrapheaps, fuel tanks and wasteland. The potential for creating a proper city centre for Galway is huge. It remains to be seen if that opportunity will be grasped or not…

      As for Limerick, Its a place I just can’t warm to. Ok, so it has more of a city feel than galway but my overriding impression is of wide open streets clogged with traffic and a general dullness about the place – it’s a bit like an english provincial town in that respect and especially since the ill advised Cruises St. development – nice idea but so poorly executed in 80s english high st. style. Give me Galway’s characterful, colourful winding streets any day. The riverside is developing in a haphazard way with clashing building styles all screaming for attention. The Clarion Hotel is a downright monstrosity – no Idea how that got away with something so bulky, stumpy and lacking in any sort of grace. Nightlife in Limerick is pretty awful and I always find an edgyness to the place – especially since a mate of mine got his nose broken in a random act of violence outside a bar in the city centre.

      Anyway, sorry about the Limerick-Bashing!! I’m just overcompensating for the previous criticism of Galway 😉
      They are both potentially great places that happen to have loads of various problems at the moment. For me, however, Galway wins out because it has a lot more energy and vibrancy as a place. Its diverse population (people from all over Ireland, Europe and beyond), great cultural life (just attended a great cuirt literature week and looking forward to the Arts Festival) and the leisurely, relaxed feel of the city centre (Limerick has plenty of ring-roads, roundabouts, shopping centres and suburban housing estates surrounding it as well!).

      Maybe I should start a proper Galway info thread since I’m such a fan of it eh!!? 😉

    • #753074
      Lotts
      Participant

      Wonderful photo of the former Limerick Ryan Hotel (Ennis Road) in todays Irish Times – It was taken from a helicopter hired by local residents who wanted to see what was going on behind the HUGE green canvas fence that surrounds the site. The developers have been served with an enforcement order to reinstate a 7 story wing that they had been partially removed!
      All this on a development that was opposed by EVERY councillor. The assumption appears to have been that once it’s covered up by a big tent you can do what you want!

      [The Times article does not mention however that the 7 story wing was truely hideous]

    • #753075
      jimg
      Participant

      Hi BTH. We’ll just have to agree to differ regarding Galway. Regarding my reference to anti-social problems, I guess feelings of personal safety are very subjective; all it takes is the witnessing one violent act to colour your perception of a place. Alternatively hearing anecdotes can create an impression of a place which will affect the way you react to people and occurances.

      Galway has a tiny core around Shop St. which has a certain amount of charm because of the retention of medieval street patterns (like Temple Bar in Dublin). The rest is featureless and dull in my opinion and as someone else pointed out, the the way the planners Galway have allowed it to develop makes Dublin look like a model city. I’m glad to hear that they might be starting to correct the sprawl.

      By the way I agree with you regarding the horrible Cruises St. but still there is far more interesting architecture in Limerick than in Galway.

    • #753076
      d ryan
      Participant

      hi beth, im not going to defend or argue your point about galway but galways really does not feel like a city.
      I think its silly to mention clogged up streets ??? what is your point ??? Nor do i see the point in bringing up nightlife ??? take a look at galway its full of roundabouts and the notorious headford road . u have retail parks in the city centre !!!! every town has its fair share of traffic probs, So there’s no point argueing that.

      my second point is what is wrong with wide open streets ? limerick has midieval street plan around king john castle and behind criuses street !!! hmmmm.
      One major difference about limerick to some irish cities its a through town as its on the cork to sligo , dublin to kerry?clare routes which must go through the city so of course there is more traffic as it has to cross over the shannon, i hope that answers your questions.

      once the tunnell is done it will take a lot of traffic out of limerick

      on a positive note i do like shop street in Galway.

    • #753077
      BTH
      Participant

      My point is that the centre of Limerick is extremely unfriendly to pedestrians whereas Galway, through effective pedestrianisation, has managed to create a city centre which is completely free from through traffic. As a result it is a much more pleasant place to be. I’d be amazed if anyone disagreed. Granted the shannon tunnel will provide some relief for Limerick city centre but It will still have the wide-open, windswept aspect that it currently has. I know that limerick has small pockets of medieval character but they are very secondary to the dominant grid pattern.
      I would contend that Galway’s success as a place to be is actually due to it’s compact and comfortable core. This small area encompasses everything from very high rates of residential occupancy right in the centre of the city, a huge variety of bars and nightlife, eating places, offices and public buildings. This adds to the sense of Galway as being a vibrant and exciting place to live and to be. Limerick simply does not have that benefit.

      Yes, the Headford road is a disaster zone, but, like other areas of the city centre in Galway, plans are afoot to transform the area. A huge application has been lodged to transform the awful shopping centre, creating new external streets, a much expanded Dundrum-style shopping and entertainment centre and a gateway building at the ring-road side which will contain a new municipal gallery. From what I have seen it’s not a bad scheme and will have the effect of properly extending the city centre out along the Headford road. It’ll be a matter of time before similar developments are proposed for the retail park side of the road.
      I have to laugh at those dismissing Galway as being “full of roundabouts”. As I seem to recall Limerick has a fair amount of them as well…. As well as plenty of crappy retail parks. In fact didn’t they just build the new county offices (fantastic building but bloody awful context) as an extention of the nearby retail park?

      Anyway, I realize that all these arguments are pretty pointless! Its the case that both cities have positives and negatives. Its only my opinion that Galway has more going for it as a place to live, work, study, socialise etc…

      By the way just to be really really pedantic, Galway is still officially the third largest city in Ireland with a population of 65,832. Limerick city contains 54,023 people. Of course Limerick’s actual population whan the county areas are taken into consideration is closer to 87,000. However were areas such as Barna and Oranmore, which are just outside Galway’s city boundary taken into account in a similar way the Galway figure would be closer to 80,000. Add to that the very rapid increase in Galway’s population which is ongoing and there isn’t really too much to call when it comes to population.

    • #753078
      anto
      Participant

      any opinions on this new development in the people’s park in limerick? big write up in the Limerick leader, seems to have caused a bit of contoversy

      http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20050507/news01.html

    • #753079
      dave123
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland’s third city ! its a beautiful city with the majestic shannon flows through the old english town and the splendid georgian town. there is a lot of bad press about limerick been an rough and derelict city . its as safe as any other city in ireland if not safer!The city is really changing with its bold new designs and high rise buildings at the limerick doclands .

      Anybody that has not been in Limerick latley there is to high rise building been built at spaights courner and are 15 storeys and 12 storeys high , looks quite cool !!! its opposite that clarion hotel and really overlooks and enhances the area.

      Please keep new developments and news posted!!!!!

      well bth just to let u know galway is a small town compared to limerick! you can try add all the towns around galway even 10 miles out like spiddal and oranmore . but Castletroy a suburb of limerick has a population of
      nearly 25000 and is not even in the city boundary or raheen,not to mention into clare and and county limerick !!! well what about shannon town and patrickswell and maybe annacotty???? you just can’t argue that!
      greater limerick is 100.000 if the boundary extemtion goes ahead .

      anyway anybody know plans for the 250 acre deveolpment at the shannon docks ? i got a bit of information on http://www.riversidecity.ie if anyne wants to check it out !!!!

    • #753080
      mickeydocs
      Participant

      Thought this thread was about Limerick… and not a Galway versus Limerick rant… seems as if this third city tag is causing some hostility between these two.
      Anyway, isn’t Tallaght arguably Ireland’s third largest town 🙂

      @dave123 wrote:

      well bth just to let u know galway is a small town compared to limerick! you can try add all the towns around galway even 10 miles out like spiddal and oranmore . but Castletroy a suburb of limerick has a population of
      nearly 25000 and is not even in the city boundary or raheen,not to mention into clare and and county limerick !!! well what about shannon town and patrickswell and maybe annacotty???? you just can’t argue that!
      greater limerick is 100.000 if the boundary extemtion goes ahead .

      anyway anybody know plans for the 250 acre deveolpment at the shannon docks ? i got a bit of information on http://www.riversidecity.ie if anyne wants to check it out !!!!

    • #753081
      mickeydocs
      Participant

      btw where does the info that Limerick is Ireland’s third wealthiest town come from… this doesn’t seem to fit in with the cost of property in Limerick.

    • #753082
      dave123
      Participant

      i posted it .
      the information about third wealtiest place in ireland , foud it out on the http://www.cso.ie and the environment edior of the irish times printed an article of the regional cities of ireland a few months back and stated that after dublin and kildare its the wealtiest per capita ….. well hope that ans your question.

    • #753083
      lexington
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      i posted it .
      the information about third wealtiest place in ireland , foud it out on the http://www.cso.ie and the environment edior of the irish times printed an article of the regional cities of ireland a few months back and stated that after dublin and kildare its the wealtiest per capita ….. well hope that ans your question.

      Statistics can be used to prove anything – 45% of all people know that! 😀

    • #753084
      d_d_dallas
      Participant

      CSO figures – What difference do they make? Despite that statistic, the perception of the place is still quite poor, and Limerick certainly does not give off an air of a place with such apparent wealth. I think Limerick has made tremendous efforts to change, however I get the feeling that just because there’s development it is being championed irrespective of quality. Must. Try. Harder.

    • #753085
      jimg
      Participant

      Yes, this thread is going a bit off track but dave123 is correct; the CSO figures were analysed extensively in the Irish Times the last time they came out. However, it should be noted that the CSO figures are by county; it is county Limerick (including Limerick city) that has the highest average income per head after counties Dublin and Kildare. Some of the richest people in Ireland live in county Limerick which might affect the average.

      Also as pointed out, the official population figures ignore the fact that huge swathes of the most residential areas of Limerick city are not within the city boundaries which are quite small for historical reasons. This photograph here (http://www.riversidecity.ie/images/Photos/Docklands%20City.jpg) from the “riverside city” site shows the urban quality of Limerick. I’d imagine a similar view of Galway from the air would not look so urban.

    • #753086
      mickeydocs
      Participant

      The city boundaries of Dublin and Cork are also quite small.

      Is it difficult for a borough’s territory to be redefined. Apparently Cork City & County Council’s are at loggerheads due to the redfining of the city’s boundary. Surely this is even more difficult for Limerick City in that some of the areas are actually in county clare.

      Anywho for what it’s worth… the cso issued the following figures from the most recent census (2002):

      Main Towns
      Total Population (including Suburbs or Environs)
      Limerick 86,998
      Galway 66,163

      These figures were for the greater suburban area and included in the case of Limerick those towns in County Clare but deemed to be suburbs of Limerick (Quinnspool, Athlunkard, Fairyhill, etc).

      Time to get back to Shannonside

      @jimg wrote:

      Yes, this thread is going a bit off track but dave123 is correct]http://www.riversidecity.ie/images/Photos/Docklands%20City.jpg[/url]) from the “riverside city” site shows the urban quality of Limerick. I’d imagine a similar view of Galway from the air would not look so urban.

    • #753087
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Has much happened in the past few years in the improvement of the centre of Limerick? Any pictures?

      Has O’ Connell St come on a bit too – was there about ten years ago when it was unfortunately quite dingy.
      It has a feel of Harcourt St in Dublin to to it which is quite strange – with some of its stock looking like Harcourt’s replicas!

      Sourthern Georgian is interesting – the doorcases seem to dominate a bit more in facades than other areas of the country – like these houses in Barrington St:

      By contrast, windows seem to dominate less in smaller schemes or houses, with facades made up of wall punctuated with windows, rather than windows surrounded by some wall, as often seen in the East 🙂

    • #753088
      dave123
      Participant

      Originally Posted by dave123
      Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland’s third city ! its a beautiful city with the majestic shannon flows through the old english town and the splendid georgian town. there is a lot of bad press about limerick been an rough and derelict city . its as safe as any other city in ireland if not safer!The city is really changing with its bold new designs and high rise buildings at the limerick doclands .

      Anybody that has not been in Limerick latley there is to high rise building been built at spaights courner and are 15 storeys and 12 storeys high , looks quite cool !!! its opposite that clarion hotel and really overlooks and enhances the area.

      Please keep new developments and news posted!!!!!

      How can i download pictures of developments and photographs to this thread??

      there is a few nice buildings popping up in the william street in limerick city centre area which are very modern.

    • #753089
      dave123
      Participant

      i read an article in the limerickpost today about the bank of scotland moving into its new premiese on henrt street . i
      and i quite like the heading!!!
      new bank for a wealthy region!!!

    • #753090
      ewankennedy
      Participant

      this whole ‘Limerick’s wealthy’ thing is getting a little tiresome, i thought this page was suppose to be about the developments and architecture of Limerick – not a competitive jibe. People should learn to accept facts – Galway is 3rd largest (in terms of population re: 1986 boundary extension), but Limerick is more urbanly structured (though its city boundaries encompass a smaller population). Cork is larger than both – and if wealth is an issue, Cork generates greater economic output that both Limerick and Galway put together. But likewise, Dublin is larger than Cork and generates an economic output in excess of the aforementioned. Deal with it people, its not a competition. If it comes down to a ‘I drive a bigger car than you’ tit-for-tat, well then Cork, Belfast and Dublin drive bigger cars than both of ye (i was going to use another analogy but its probably too crude for this site 😀 ) Its just the way things are. ye should be proud of yer identities and stand up to them when unfairly treated, both Limerick and Galway have enough merits of their own to be able to discuss pleasantly. i happen to like lots of things about both cities and things i dont like so much but lets get back to what the page title says ‘what about all the developments popping up in shannonside?’ Note developments in the title and as this is an architecture page, these develpments should have some architectural reference or link too. 🙂

    • #753091
      mickeydocs
      Participant

      Great post Ewan… maybe we should change the name of both towns to cities of the tribes(alism).

      @ewankennedy wrote:

      this whole ‘Limerick’s wealthy’ thing is getting a little tiresome, i thought this page was suppose to be about the developments and architecture of Limerick – not a competitive jibe. People should learn to accept facts – Galway is 3rd largest (in terms of population re: 1986 boundary extension), but Limerick is more urbanly structured (though its city boundaries encompass a smaller population). Cork is larger than both – and if wealth is an issue, Cork generates greater economic output that both Limerick and Galway put together. But likewise, Dublin is larger than Cork and generates an economic output in excess of the aforementioned. Deal with it people, its not a competition. If it comes down to a ‘I drive a bigger car than you’ tit-for-tat, well then Cork, Belfast and Dublin drive bigger cars than both of ye (i was going to use another analogy but its probably too crude for this site 😀 ) Its just the way things are. ye should be proud of yer identities and stand up to them when unfairly treated, both Limerick and Galway have enough merits of their own to be able to discuss pleasantly. i happen to like lots of things about both cities and things i dont like so much but lets get back to what the page title says ‘what about all the developments popping up in shannonside?’ Note developments in the title and as this is an architecture page, these develpments should have some architectural reference or link too. 🙂

    • #753092
      jimg
      Participant

      this whole ‘Limerick’s wealthy’ thing is getting a little tiresome, i thought this page was suppose to be about the developments and architecture of Limerick – not a competitive jibe.

      Do you see any irony in using this opening line to start a message discussing how much wealth is generated by other Irish cities and how it is more than that of Limerick and Galway and which manages to avoid mentioning anything about any architecture, building or planning?

    • #753093
      ewankennedy
      Participant

      @jimg wrote:

      Do you see any irony in using this opening line to start a message discussing how much wealth is generated by other Irish cities and how it is more than that of Limerick and Galway and which manages to avoid mentioning anything about any architecture, building or planning?

      its not meant as a wealth discussion. I was just saying that if thats the way the page is going to be – here’s how it is with the facts, but I was saying that its not the way the page should be. It should be about promoting Limerick’s merits in architecture and development as well as its misgivings, as i mentioned at the end of the post.

    • #753094
      jimg
      Participant

      I was just saying that if thats the way the page is going to be – here’s how it is with the facts

      Well if you’re going to quote some “facts” to settle the discussion, then you should pick some which aren’t so misleading. This has been stated a number of times in the thread; Galway’s official population is hugely inflated by the fact that the OFFICIAL city boundary is massive compared to that for other cities. If you want to go by official city boundaries, then in terms of physical size, Galway is 2.5 times the size of Limerick, 25% bigger than Cork and is just under half the size of Dublin. In fact, in terms of official boundaries, Waterford is bigger than Cork. This shows how it’s nonsense to use official city boundaries to judge the size of a city whether in terms of area covered or population.

      Your other “fact” confuses absolute and per-capita wealth. Bangladesh has a bigger (in absolute terms) economy than Switzerland but it would be ridiculous to claim that Bangladeshis were wealthier than the Swiss just because there happens to be 20 times as many of them. When people talk about wealth it is generally in per-head terms. On this basis county Limerick is the third wealthiest in the Republic according to the Central Statistics Office. I imagine that the only reason this fact was quoted is because it’s considered witty to knock Limerick and say it’s full of scangers. It’s always interesting to consider hard facts (in this case from an authority like the CSO) which challenge common stereotypes about a place.

      Anyway it’s not like there’s some raging Limerick v. Galway war going on here. Besides the point about the CSO figures and the debate about what should be included when comparing populations, BTH and myself and most of the others are expressing differring personal preferences about some Irish cities. No one’s preference is right or wrong and most expressions of opinion have been qualified with phrases like “I think” and “in my opinion” or “it feels to me”.

    • #753095
      ewankennedy
      Participant

      Ok there was so much wrong with that I’m not even going to start, but i will say this, i was actually supporting Limerick and its reputation on this one and you just went ahead and worked against it. maybe the reputation about Limerick and conflict is true – you’re certainly painting that picture…but in this case i’ll assume its just you and not the city. i’m all for differing opinions, thats democracy baby, but theres a fine line between stating opinion, correction and ridicule. I’m going to leave it at that. Its a pity some people act the way they do, but i would really like to see Limerick develop a good, progressive and POSITIVE thread about its development, of which it has many great ones like the Burke-kennedy doyle designed one on henry street is it??? anyway, enough banter. No hard feelings. 😮

      well maybe just one more thing, Switzerlands GDP and GNP are both substantially higher than Bangledesh – see CIA world factbook website and papers by Conan, Andrews and Hemme (2003) – “A Modern Economic Perspective of World Economies”.

      good luck with the page, cant wait to see some of the great projects in store for shannonside.

    • #753096
      Mob79
      Participant

      Less faffin, more pictures, i’m not seeing how it’s all coming along shannonside.
      Limerick looks like a city, galway looks like a medium/small sized town drowning in suburbs, sorry, but thats how it is, regardless of wealth population yadda yadda.

    • #753097
      dowlingm
      Participant

      jimg

      spot on – Limerick is crippled from Limerick Co and Ennis refusing boundary extensions.

      mob79

      also right – Eyre Square is nice but it’s a town square not a city square, especially given the low rise surrounding it. Is there a byelaw that says you can’t build higher than the Cathedral, so as not to put the Novena in shadow?

      (everytime I’m in Galway there seems to be a novena on).

    • #753098
      backspace
      Participant

      ‘Less faffin, more pictures, i’m not seeing how it’s all coming along shannonside.’….

      this is work in progress on the quays- BKD i think.

      http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=251401

    • #753099
      modular man
      Participant

      Just to position myself backspace, is that Jurys to the right of that picture?

    • #753100
      dave123
      Participant

      has anybody got any architectre news of limerick???

    • #753101
      dave123
      Participant

      i agree with jimg totally!!! i couldn’t of said it better myself.

    • #753102
      dave123
      Participant

      i the glass tower on riverpoint is really awesome! i think there knocking the awful yellow building onto the right as you look at the picture…

    • #753103
      dave123
      Participant

      well i cant’t help my self and this, is to ewankennedy ,i wonder where you get your facts from???? you mentioned that cork generated more econmic out put than is both galway and limerick than cork is absoulatly not true , so don’t be stating untrue facts the midwest including limerick is just as big as cork if not bigger , shannon employs as much as a medium sized city as well as , limerick is wealtheir that cork per capita fact and im not going to fall down on bluff , another thing the north circular road i think its south circular , corrrect me if i am wrong . that street was voted the poshest street outside of dublin last year , i read it out of the property magazine.

      at the start i just wanted some thruths about limerick that people tend to forget or believe misleading stuff about limerick. i know the thread has got out of hand but i don;t think i should or like minded people should beleive false information about limerick. i have not said anyrhing bad about the other regional cities so…. the bla bla talk is what kept this mess all going .

    • #753104
      Mob79
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      i the glass tower on riverpoint is really awesome! i think there knocking the awful yellow building onto the right as you look at the picture…

      Or are they recladding it, i think the computer mock ups showed as being part of the scheme!

      Is anything going planned alongside the Clarion, back in riverside towards the junkyard or whatever it is, can’t imagine to many customers in the clarion are overjoyed at that view.

      @backspace wrote:

      ‘Less faffin, more pictures, i’m not seeing how it’s all coming along shannonside.’….

      this is work in progress on the quays- BKD i think.

      http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=251401

      wahay pictures, thanks. Looking good.

    • #753105
      d_d_dallas
      Participant

      Hmmm – so Galway is no longer your target – time to move onto Cork!

      Maybe I’ll check back next week when Waterford is getting assasinated.

      Limerick is an Irish city – it has it’s pro’s and it’s cons like everywhere else. It’s great that someone is defending it, but move on from the comparison type argument. It should stand up on it’s own merits. The Cork thread on this board is focused on what’s happening there alone and not how what happens there compares to elsewhere.

    • #753106
      dave123
      Participant

      who are you saying your comment to? i didnt bring up in cork in thae way you obviosly discribed, i think it is a lovely city , you mentioned the words all by yourself , glad you understood my ppoint on defending limerick even though i do not come from there !

    • #753107
      dowlingm
      Participant

      dave123

      catch yourself on. If Limerick can include Shannon then Cork can certainly include Ringaskiddy and then it’s all over for you since Viagra is what keeps Ireland PLC ticking over.

    • #753108
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Sorry for thread hijacking but: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ? 🙂

    • #753109
      modular man
      Participant

      Maybe an obvious place to start (albeit post 52) but here are some links from Murray O laoire Architects Limerick office.

      http://www.murrayolaoire.com/news_04/04_01_28/departure_for_limerick.html

      http://www.murrayolaoire.com/news_04/04_01_28/maryi_sports.html

      This sports building is the first part of an overall masterplan for Mary Immaculate College. It should go to site in summer. Its really quite an interesting looking building.

    • #753110
      dave123
      Participant

      what an interesting building. it should mix with old the old college well.

      any interesting plans in the city centre area? there is rumopurs on the limerickpost that the arthurs quay park is sold for developments ??

    • #753111
      mickeydocs
      Participant

      well i cant’t help my self either

      The facts from the 2002 census back up EwanKennedy’s claim that Cork’s greater population is greater than Limerick and Galway combined is correct.

      Main Towns
      Total Population (including Suburbs or Environs)
      Cork 186,239… this does not include Carrigaline, Midleton, Cobh, Passage West, Glanmire, Blarney, Tower (or any other of the satellite towns, although it does include Ballincollig);
      Limerick 86,998 (Includes Castletroy, and the suburbs in Co. Clare);
      Galway 66,163 (doesn’t include Oranmore)

      Do your sums

      now can you back up that limerick city is wealtheir that cork per capita fact?
      how come property prices don’t back-up this apparent wealth?

      BTW… Ringaskiddy and the Pharmachem region generate in excess of $8 billion per annum alone.

      Now I’m off back to the thread that keeps me coming back to this forum 🙂

      And now I feel really childish 🙂

    • #753112
      jimg
      Participant

      That’s not what EwanKennedy claimed. He claimed Galway was bigger than Limerick which I don’t think is the case. He also claimed that Cork had a higher economic output than Limerick and Galway combined and thus Limerick couldn’t be wealthier than Cork. As I explained earlier, it’s not the overall economic output that determines wealth (try telling a Vietnamese that they’re wealthier than an Irish person) but output per head. And it is a matter of record (central statistics office) that COUNTY Limerick is wealthier than COUNTY Cork or COUNTY Galway. The CSO doesn’t publish income per head on a city basis, so that’s the closest we can get to an established “fact”.

    • #753113
      d_d_dallas
      Participant

      let… it… go…

    • #753114
      modular man
      Participant

      Can we change the name of this thread to “Is Limerick bigger and wealthier then Galway”, and then start a new one about development in Limerick?

    • #753115
      ewankennedy
      Participant

      Yes please! this is getting so old.

      All I’d like to say now is “can we really trust a woman who leaves her feminine ointments next to the mayonaise in the fridge? That was the worst sandwich I ever ate!”

      it seems as relevant as any other comment made here. could one of the webmasters maybe fix this???

      anyone got a pic of the new Royal bank of scotland building?

    • #753116
      dave123
      Participant

      Well isn’t that lovely for Cork, I’m sure your are right!! :rolleyes: well im not going to argue against Cork ,not to mention that you have have a of much of county Cork covered
      hmmm
      Not all the suburbs in the CSO are mentioned in the greater limerick area , limerick also spills out past Castletroy to Annacotty and Newport ! which is in Tipperary anyway.
      As with Galway,,,oranmore is a good few miles out to be a suburb or about to be one!!!
      in that case stop throwing in silly things like adding the towns around the cities , that should not be the case.
      Limerick is a lot bigger than the figures and boundary stats tells us , and i’m not going to mention all the towns likewisw ,around it.
      Its pointless, Limerick is bigger than Glaway ,fact,no matter if you travel 15 miles out or add up all the areas

      As for Cork its the slowest natural growth rate than all the ciies!!!hahaha (in terms of Populatrion)
      well i Do know Cork is bigger , you wasted time typing that mickeydocs lol…..
      Raheen is in limerick not 15 miles like ringaskiddy !!! which employs nearly 20,000 people ! which has a big output not to mention DELL or analog !!! and so on ……..
      Limeick is the fastest growing commercial centre outside of the Dublin area ! so i don’t care what your opinions are going to actually be.
      I’m comfortable sticking to facts, that you guys refuse to believe. ! because you know what the answerwill be I’m beginning to see that you are honest about your childlish behaviour.

      As with cheap property prices
      The media like to give Limerick a bad name , so obviously that will affect prices.
      the city boundary affects the land prices a lot ,
      There are very expensive areas in limerick , unfortunatly You dont know it ,
      you see Limerick property was doing very well before the celtic boom kicked in and in Limerick and even today there is an oversupply of housing and do on , so that is one reason why its cheaper ,

    • #753117
      BTH
      Participant

      Dave, are you 14 or what? Because your comments really do seem very immature…

    • #753118
      dave123
      Participant

      no… i think that a lot of people say untrue statements about limerick , information which are facts and it pathetic that they argue it … thats it

    • #753119
      Mob79
      Participant

      He’s been drinking!

    • #753120
      anto
      Participant

      article from the LImerick Leader. Seems that Limerick city centre is suffering with the new suburban attractions such as cinemas and shopping centres. Surprised to read that there’s no cinema in the city cntre now! Is the city’s reputation mean that suburbanites and people from the hinterland consider the city centre unsafe and too much hassle to find parking etc?

      Anyway here’s the article……………………………

      City’s facelift gives us
      reason to smile

      LIMERICK’S skyline has changed dramatically over the past 10 years through renewal encouraged by tax incentives. CLODAGH O’LEARY looks at what this facelift has done to the city

      Changing image: cranes dominate the Limerick skyline – Limerick Leader. Irish Newspaper for Limerick and the mid-west of Ireland
      Changing image: cranes dominate the Limerick skyline

      IN the past 10 years, Limerick has undergone a €1bn facelift. From the skyscraping developments to the greatly improved infrastructure, Limerick has become a truly modern city.

      The provision of tax incentives has led to numerous developments on Limerick’s docklands, Howley’s Quay and Harvey’s Quay.

      And currently, 10 per cent of the country’s construction output takes place in the Mid-West. In total, about €1.2bn has been spent in developing the city in the last 10 years.

      Conor O’Connell, secretary of the Mid-West branch of the Construction Industry Federation said that Limerick had been transformed by the level of investment in the city.

      “A huge amount of construction work has been done in the city over the past 10 years, more so than other regional cities, with huge investment by developers and business people,” he said.

      “Of all cities in the country, Limerick has benefited most from tax incentives under Section 23 and Section 50,” said Mr O’Connell.

      The deadline for the completion of projects under the current tax allowance system is July 2006.

      Fionagh Ryan, chairwoman of the Limerick City Business Association said that in order for the city to thrive, investment and development must continue.

      “A strong thriving regime would not be possible without new development. As a city we need all of those developments so that we can be on par with Cork and Galway.

      “The city must differentiate itself. People have to have civic pride, and businesses will have to keep their premises up to speed. People in Limerick need to use the services in the city,” she said.

      Pat Daly of Shannon Development said that Limerick city’s regeneration had become the example for how well the tax allowance scheme had worked.

      “The tax incentives were piloted in Limerick in a project between Shannon Development and City Council. In fact, the first project in the country was in The Granary, where Shannon Development’s offices are based. A lot of those projects are based on this model,” he said.

      Mr Daly said that the scale of investment had allowed for the city to embrace one of its strong points – the river.

      “The level of investment has absolutely changed the streetscape in the city and has brought people back to the city,” he said.

      But with the progress, there have been some losses.

      The question of whether the city centre is in decline is one which has been hotly debated, particularly with the development of sites at the Parkway, Castletroy, the new Childer’s Road development, as well as the Crescent Shopping Centre.

      “Everyone is aware that we need a buck-up in the city centre. We need the plans to be positive for the city. As it is, there is a lot going on here, we have everything from UL to theatre, the city is really changing,” said Ms Ryan.

      But Limerick is the only city in Ireland without a cinema in its city centre. The Savoy closed its doors in 2004.

      City movie-goers must travel to the Omniplex in Dooradoyle; Storm cinemas in Castletroy will open next weekend.

      “We need to improve the cultural aspect more in the city centre, particularly a cinema, but we need developers to come in to the city for that,” she said.

      But where will the city go from here?

      “To a degree, I would like to see a little more of the same. I would like to see the plans of the Riverside City to complete development onto the Riverside. And the plans being talked about to pedestrianise certain streets in the city centre will bring people back into the city. These are two clear aspects of the city’s core plan for the future,” said Mr Daly.

      “In another 10 years, I would like to see the city continuing in a positive light, that people originally from Limerick will want to return to the city like I did. I had been living in Dublin for seven years. The quality of life on this side of the country is much better. There are good reasons to return here,” said Ms Ryan.

      Next Item …Peel

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      Current Issue

      Copyright © 2005 The Limerick Leader.

    • #753121
      dave123
      Participant

      Weekly Stories from the Print Edition Thu, 19/05/05

      Development promised for derelict city street

      FOLLOWING last week’s article highlighting local business people’s concerns over the under-utilisation of the Sarsfield Street Dunnes-owned shopping centre and the complete lack of use of an entire row of units by Roches Stores on Liddy Street, Roche’s Stores has said that they are applying for retention of the warehouses in Liddy Street because they are, contrary to local reports, using the buildings for storage. And they’ve promised to improve the appearance of the buildings. According to Mayor Michael Hourigan, the street looks “derelict”.

      The spokesperson for Roches Stores told the Limerick Post this week that when the department store applied for ongoing planning permission, they had submitted ” a major overall development plan for the buildings which is ongoing”.

      The spokesperson said that this development plan is taking “slightly longer” than they had anticipated.

      “We are looking at a development plan for that whole area, but it is ongoing. In the meantime we will be looking to see if there is anything we can do to improve the appearance of the buildings,” he said.

      Despite repeated contacts with Dunnes Stores, no comment was issued.

      Last week the owner of Harry’s coffee shop in the Dunnes centre complained that half of the units are empty and have been so for the last five years. He accused Dunnes Stores of having no interest in promoting them and that business in the centre is “very quiet”.

      information i got out of the limerickpost.

    • #753122
      jimg
      Participant

      I dunno why Dunnes has a store there at all now that they’ve a big new store 100 yards away on Henry St. That shopping centre has been dead for years and is horrible. The sooner the wrecking ball flattens it the better. That site needs a dramatic (at least five stories) and beautiful building to mark that side of that “entrance” into Limerick.

      Here is a old photograph of Sarsfield’s Bridge when it was new. If you don’t know Limerick the offending shoping center takes up the corner block on the left at the far end of the bridge.

    • #753123
      dave123
      Participant

      its a real eyesore for sarfields street, as you said that it is an important entrance as its a major bridging point etc… Dunnes stores should be shot for letting there premises turn into a heap of crap! its need to be buildozed.

      it would be very interesting to see if a skyscraper would be built there with interesting arcitectre , it would realy fitt in nice to the othe high rise buildings overlooking the shannon and make a real urban quarter as you cross over the shannon from any of the bridges! it would put limerick on top !

    • #753124
      Mob79
      Participant

      Somebody would pipe up about it’s proximity to the castle i’m sure. Any other highrise planned bar the 2 existing?

    • #753125
      jimg
      Participant

      I don’t think I’d like a very high building there. I think it would be better to have some symmetry in terms of height with the newish hotel or whatever it is across the road. This would provide two “pillars” flanking the start of the city at the end of the bridge and also would work better with the vista up William St (or is it Thomas St – I can never remember). Unfortunately the newish building across the road, while far better than the shopping centre, isn’t all that impressive being a bland and boring lowish red-brick if I recall correctly.

      I forgot to say that Sarsfield’s Bridge is one of my favourites in the country. It’s length makes it more impressive than any in Dublin and the proportions and detailing are super.

    • #753126
      dave123
      Participant

      dave123]Limerick needs to be seen and recogniesed as ireland’s third city ! its a beautiful city with the majestic shannon flows through the old english town and the splendid georgian town. there is a lot of bad press about limerick been an rough and derelict city . its as safe as any other city in ireland if not safer!The city is really changing with its bold new designs and high rise buildings at the limerick doclands .

      Anybody that has not been in Limerick latley there is to high rise building been built at spaights courner and are 15 storeys and 12 storeys high , looks quite cool !!! its opposite that clarion hotel and really overlooks and enhances the area.

      Please keep new developments and news posted!!!!!

      the riverpoint building is really coming on well! the building is really fantastic , on such a nice spot to.

      there is a new development on steamboat quay of luxurios apartments etc… has anybody have any idea of what it will look like and any photos either?

      i read an article on the limerickpost on the roches stores site on liddy street and the oold dunnes will they ever closes the dunnes on sarfields street is totoally pointless to have a crappy old shop just barley up the road from the new one, is it not common sense in the first place ?????

      heres an article on pedestrianisation i read from limerickpost….

      Pedestrianisation of lanes for the summer

      A NUMBER of the city centre’s streets will undergo a process of temporary pedestrianisation for the summer season to acclimatise the public and the business sector to the impact such a development will bring about.

      City councillors have been advised by John Breen, director of Transportation and Infrastructure that in order to highlight an awareness of the benefits of pedestrianisation, Little Catherine Street, Augustinian Lane and the area of O’Connell Street in front of Penneys Store will be pedestrianised for the summer season.

      “The scheme will involve the closing of streets to through traffic, the installation of planted features and a general upgrade of the area but full business access for deliveries will be facilitated,” said Mr Breen.

      He stressed that “extensive consultation” with business owners is taking place.

      “It is hoped that such an initiative will be welcomed by business owners and that they will be a necessary party to its successful implementation,” he said.

      Reacting enthusiastically to the scheme, Deirdre Martin, proprietor of Mickey Martin’s pub in Augustinian Lane said there is a unanimous welcome from the 10 business owners directly involved.

      “We had two meetings recently and the response from all of the owner occupiers is a very positive one – there is absolutely no opposition to the scheme which will provide a wonderful showcase for how attractive successful pedestrianisation will be. The Council will put in trees and planters and bollards, one under the arch at the Catherine Street entrance and another at the Thomas Street entrance to the lane,” she said.

      “I would eventually love to see this and other laneways cobbled, painted and with canopies and lights. Compared to Dublin, Cork, Galway and even Tralee, they are yards ahead of us on this but I’m very optimistic that the Summer Season Street Enhancement Scheme will prove a great success and lead on to a very attractive pedestrianisation scheme for the city centre.”

    • #753127
      Boyler
      Participant

      I think Limerick looks nice. And just because a city may have a bad reputation, it doesn’t mean that a person can’t visit and admire it. Does anyone have pictures of the docklands in Limerick? Thanks in advance.

    • #753128
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Im fairly new to this site but i’ve been reading it with interest for a good while and what struck me was the general lack of any news of all the potentially exciting developments that are planned for limerick,i suppose this isnt surprising considering some of the attitudes undoubtedly held by people on this site,unsurprisingly the majority of these people are probably from our “great” capital city. People seem to immediately dismiss any exciting plans for limerick,i see cork is benefiting from lots of coverage,fair play to lexington,obviously a man that cares passionately about his city,i think its about time limerick got in on the act,it really is coming along quite nicely,there are a large number of proposals on the table,ill just guide you through a few of them:

      The riverfront is the area that has probably recieved the most attention over the last 10 years with developments such as steamboat quay,jurys inn,the harveys and howleys quay developments and more recently the riverpoint development which will finally rid us of the horrific munchins house,(apparently one of the 1st purpose built office blocks in the country in the 60s),I’ve added a few pics of the general docklands area,the shannon foynes port authority recently launched the docklands masterplan “The development will be phased over a number of years so that the capacity of the working Docks will not be impaired over the short to medium term at least. The Docklands Initiative is expected to include residential, commercial, hotel and other projects”,the overall capital value is around €1 Billion,the full text is here in pdf format, http://www.sfpc.ie/extracts.pdf

      Just across the dock road the old limerick racecourse at greenpark is finally ready for development

      Planning permission for the development of a mixed use scheme at the fromer Greenpark Racecourse. The proposed development will consist of a retail scheme with a total retail gross floor area of 30881 sq.m incorporation a supermarket (gross floor area 4800 sq.m), two anchor comparison units and a further 39 no. additional retail units. In addition, a food court of 3496 sq.m is proposed at first floor level comprising of 8 no. individual units and management area at second floor level. The application also includes parking at surface and semi-basement levels for 1862 vehicles including staff parking; ancillary site development works; hard and soft landscaping; access roads; service access; service yards and ancillary site works. The application also includes the provision of a major recreation amentity area incorporating playing pitches, (1 full size soccer pitch, 10 no. 5-a-side pitches and 4 no. tennis courts), changing facilities, a playground and landscaping

      There are also plans for over a thousand new homes and a web of walkways etc,i think the old finishing straight of the racecourse is to be retained and there are also to be a memorial of the popes visit and a commemorative plaque for john traceys world championship win.

      In the city centre the savoy cinema is finally about to be torn down and replaced with a 100 bed hotel,restaurants,leisure centre and 14 retail units fronting onto bedford row which is being pedestrianised within the next few weeks “for the redevelopment of a site of 0.3287 hectares, approximately, indentified primarily as: the Savoy Cinema Complex, Henry Street/Bedford Row; Bedford House, Bedford Row; Nos 2-7 Bedford Row: and the premises running from the rear of No.122 O’Connell Street (parallel with the rear of Nos. 1-9 Bedford Row), Limerick. The development will consist of the demolition of all existing structures on site and the construction of a five to part – ten (including roof top plant) storey over basement building, providing a mixed use scheme comprising: 95 no. residential apartments (some terraced, some with balconies) (7910 sqm (50 no. one-bedroom apartments; 37 no. two bed apartments; and 8 no. three-bed apartments)); 14 no. retail units (5753sqm located from basement to second floor level); and a 100 bedroom hotel,on the opposite side of bedford row the original savoy theatre is being restored to its former glory to house 3 retail units ,the royal george site is also undergoing redevelopment with a 4 star hotel and department store(probably marks & spencer) being built,the old jurys hotel on the ennis road is also being demolished next week to make way for a 12 storey development consisting of a 5 star hotel and 90 apartments,further out that road there are plans for 2 more hotels on the o meara motors site and near coonagh cross,uncertainty still surrounds the site of the ardhu hotel,construction seems to have stopped,patrick punchs pub at punches cross was also demolished lately to be replaced by a new hotel,hopefully the pub will reappear somewhere in the development.the clarion recently announced that as its enjoying 90% occupancy rates its going to convert the top 3 floors from apartments to bedrooms,work is also to start soon on a new hotel on the site of the top filling statio on the dock road,yet another hotel has started on the childers road beside the limerick enterprise park,strange place for a hotel if you ask me.

      At the other side of town permission is expected shortly for the biggest shopping centre outside of dublin,on the lines of the dundrum centre and mahon point, to be known as parkway valley,iv seen the drawings and they look quite interesting,due to the topography of the site,it will consist of a number of differing elevations,i think around 60 units plus 10 screen cinema,leisure centre,office and business park and public park,looks like the parkway r/bout could become an even bigger problem,although sliproads to be tunnelled under the old N7 are to be constructed as part of the plan,a similar complex,although slightly smaller is planned for coonagh cross,this sounds like overkill to me,if you consider that a revamped jetland centre is scheduled to open in september across from the gaelic grounds with 35 retail units,proposed cinema,an 8 unit retail park and a motor park,added to existing parks such as the parkway retail park,childers,the new city east(the biggest yet) to open in august and two more in the pipeline for the same area,its all getting a bit ridicoulous,im not a fan of retail parks at all,the cresscent sc is also being extended at the moment,the city centre has to meet these challenges head on,limerick city council could help matters by putting arthurs quay park up for sale,what a disaster that has been,if dunnes stores and roches stores werent so stubborn,a great new city centre quarter could be created.

    • #753129
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Just a few photos of the waterfront for those of you who wanted them,they were included in the 1st post but went missing for some reason

    • #753130
      corcaighboy
      Participant

      Tuborg – Thanks for posting the photos. I must say I like the Clarion. Limerick has a lot to offer, and can always learn from the mistakes made elsewhere when it comes to planning. Like any city in Ireland, the suburbs are pretty dull and monotonous, but the city center certainly has much to offer.

    • #753131
      dave123
      Participant

      wow, there is a lot retail development happining, im not a big fan of retail parks but i think there are well planned, as there are not just popping up everywhere because they are really centred around ballysimon and parkway where there is a lot of infastructure and its a commercial core of the eastside of the city .I woiuld have no problem with the retail parks going ahead as long as there is counterbalance in the city centre as well, Dunnes and Roches need a good kick up the a***

      There is plans for trainstop for the parkway when all the development takes place there, (rumoured)
      The Parkway roundabout is a deathtrap!! when the shopping centre goes ahead it will have to be ripped apart. and build some kind of interchange , even though it might be the impossible !

      will Limerick city centre have a cinema in the future , as the savoy is up for other development? Henry street will be very grand once the Savoy centre is developed , it wil be a hive of activity.
      also the Castletroy cinema opened recently….

      There is a fantastic picture on the front page of the limerickpost if anyone want to see it (i can’t post it sorry}
      it will be open within weeks , and will have a thousands people living and working there!

      around of appluase for Turbog!

    • #753132
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Not sure about a cinema dave,the savoy were running 2 screens in the old central across the street from the savoy,but thtats either closed or closing now because a developer has bought that site,its going to be converted into retail units,the facade is coming off,i think theres an earlier facade behind it,spposed to be fairly ornate and i think thats being restored,it is a shame that the city centre is without a cinema,i think galway dosent have a city centre cinema either,apparently theres one planned for the jetland on the ennis road,but thats not much good,if arthurs quay park is ever developed,probably into a large shopping centre,id like to see something done with the existing arthurs quay centre,they could have made a lot more out of such an important city centre site.As for the parkway, i think when parkway valley goes ahead,there is rumours that the original parkway sc will be torn down and replaced with either a bus or train terminal,i know colbert station isnt ideal,but i dont think iarnrod eireann would sanction such a move,we’ll probably be waiting for any improvements to the parkway r/bout aswell,i dont there is there is the ambition or foresight in this country to come up with a proper plan to grade separate this junction,look at the disappointing proposal they’ve come up with for the kinsale r/bout in cork!..

    • #753133
      dave123
      Participant

      picture from limerickpost… skyscraper

    • #753134
      dave123
      Participant

      Dunnes stores on Henry street , i like this building as its seems to fit in very well on henry street , even with all the new red brick buildings that limerick is famous for…

    • #753135
      Devin
      Participant

      @Tuborg wrote:

      Im fairly new to this site but i’ve been reading it with interest for a good while and what struck me was the general lack of any news of all the potentially exciting developments that are planned for limerick,……i think its about time limerick got in on the act

      Thanks for that & the pictures. Even though I’m from Dublin, I’m interested in all the Irish cities and I’d certainly like to hear & see more about Limerick on this forum!

    • #753136
      dave123
      Participant

      The Parkway roundabout will be improved bit by bit with a few slip roads and will take years to finish! doubt it will will it be a proper grade separate jct. they will have to build tunnels for pedrestrains to get to the shopping centre at least.
      the old parkway site would be very suiteable for a train and bus as the train line passes by and other main bus routes to and from Dublin , Castletroy , Childers and UL etc….
      picture of roches stores
      any comments , A prime city centre site ?

      O’connells street/ cruises st jct.

    • #753137
      dave123
      Participant

      picture of Arthurs Quay SC. facing onto O’Connells street , it should really be invested as its 1 of the only SC. centres in the city centre.

    • #753138
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I think the problem with the parkway roundabout is the fact that it is a very tricky site with little or no scope for major improvements,as it is bordered on all sides by developments such as the parkway sc,the parkway retail park and numerous houses,its obvious that any worthwhile improvements would mean major upheaval in the area,surely some of the smaller buildings on the rebogue road side would have to be demolished,even if the unthinkable happened and a flyover was to be built,it would mean the realignment of at least half a kilometre of the dublin road to allow it to pass over the present junction and i just wonder how costly that would be.I dont think we’ll see the real benefit of the southern ring until the last section and the tunnel are built,if we’re lucky work will start late in the year,although early 2006 is a more realistic date.

      just on another note i came across some old pictures of limerick lately and a very interesting building caught my eye,i think it was called cannocks,i know that this is where penneys is now,.Why was this building demolished?,does anyone have any ideas,what a shame that this building was lost,it seems a really beautiful building,am i right in thinking the building beside it is the present day roches stores?,Im fairly young so im only familiar with penneys current monstrosity,what a terrible shame this building isnt around now,it would really add to the city centres character,i also have an old photo of o connell street before todds fire,this was another fine building and when you see what they replaced it with it just makes it all the sadder!

      i think this picture was taken in the 1940s

    • #753139
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Wow – what an impressive collection of buildings, were they all demolished?

      Sorry Dave, what building is this that you posted – it can get a bit difficult at times to associate all the buildings mentioned with the pics posted:

      https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=786

    • #753140
      Tuborg
      Participant

      This is the part of o connell street from the sarsfield street junction to the beginning of patrick street,it is hard to tell if the first building is roches stores,not sure how long roches have been in limerick but it certainly looks a similar building in that it is the same shape as the present building,anyone who has been inside will acknowledge that it is quite an old store,apparently a large part of it had to be renovated in the 60s to install lifts and escalators.One things is for sure :the railings on the rooftop have been removed and todays roches stores does not have as many windows,plus it is now painted cream,my guess is that it is the same building,as for the rest of them they have long since disappeared,the building sandwiched between roches and cannocks is gone and replaced with an exceptionally dull structure of roughly the same size that used to be an aer lingus travel shop and is now another part of roches stores,to thr right of cannocks is where burger king now stands and the building at the far end of the photo is where the entrance to arthurs quay sc now lies.

      PS it has been said that cannocks was badly damaged in the civil war as it was the taken over by the local branch of irish volunteers!,does anyone know if this is true?

    • #753141
      dave123
      Participant

      it is the riverpoint building
      Graham,

      it s sad that those buildings are gone ,
      it really goes to show of how impressive O’Connells street was in the past!

      i sent a pic of the existing Roches stores at the beginning of this page to,
      in my view not a very interesting building! compared to the old picture of the same building..

      the first pic i sent is identical to the old one that you sen Turborg ! but you couldnt compare the existing to the old!! as the old has character!!
      second one is howleys quay (apartements faceing onto the shannon would’nt mind having one there )

      the third one is the most awful looking Dunnes stores building in the state of ireland,
      never mention the fact its in a major urban centre and it wouldnt acceptable to have a Dunnes like it in our capital city
      really should be named and shamed!!!!
      its one of the first building you see coming from the sarfields bridge going downtown.
      anybody agree ? that this building is utter crap for Dunnes ?

    • #753142
      dave123
      Participant

      Turborg , do you know anything about newtown house development on Henry street , i came across on some site , can;t find it…. there were plans for 8 storey building all apartements
      not sure of the rest……

      By the pic of Dunnes stores is on the left on third pic i posted…… in case anyone dosn’t know .

    • #753143
      jimg
      Participant

      Beautiful picture of Cannocks, Tuborg. Where did you get it? I have a vague memory of Cannocks. It must have been knocked 20 or 25 years ago. It was a department store, I think, but my memory of it is very hazy. I think it was less “up-market” than the other nearby dempartment store, Todd’s (now BT), across the road. I don’t ever remember seeing the building to the right of Cannocks. I think that was a derelict/empty site for years. It’s also a great shame to be reminded of what was there before the Author’s Quay development. I remember that building too; I think it was occupied by a big jeweler. That whole stretch of Limerick has been destroyed in the last 30 years. Cannock’s is gone, most of the Georgians where Author’s Quay is were knocked as was Cruises Hotel.

    • #753144
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Ya i mean the more you look at those buildings,the more angry you get,how could these buildings(especially the cannocks one) be allowed to be pulled down,it was an absolute disgrace,i think that in cannocks case it was decided that it would be cheaper to demolish it and build a new one in its place than to restore the original,how tragic when you consider the heap of s**t that was built in its place.I have a few more photos aswell(found em on some site couple of years ago,cant remember which one!).Another fine building to be lost was the old todds store,it was destroyed by a huge fire in 1959,apparently a huge section of o connell street and william street were at risk before it was finally brought under control,now we know why this section of o connell and wiliam street is so shabby,horrible 60s architecture,roches stores was also destroyed by a fire in 1948.Its such a pity that so much of o connell street was lost,imagine if all those buildings were still intact now!,how good would this part of the city centre look today!,o connell street has really gone down the pan in recent years and the city council seem to be taking for ages to do anything about it,brown thomas should at least be made do something with the front of their building,its unbelievably ugly.Hopefully the new department store on the george site will have some character.

      I’ve included another pic of o connell street,again not sure about the date,the quality isnt great but then again it is at least 50 years old,the second is an old postcard,it gives a good idea of what todds looked like!.

      I dunno dave,isnt newtown house the one behind the riverpoint building?

    • #753145
      dave123
      Participant

      is the Ryan hotel going ahead
      there are a numerous number of neew hotels on the pipeline for limerick as there is a major boom in hotel occupancy etc..
      is it going ahead it was on appeals in the planning section on the irish times the other day.
      anyway he
      PLANS for three major Limerick developments worth a combined €200m have received contrasting decisions from the the city council.

      Former Irish rugby coach Pat Whelan has been refused permission to build 94 apartments and a mixed tourism, recreational and commercial development on the site of the former Limerick Ryan Hotel. In contrast the council has given the green light to Galway developer John Lally, for a redevelopment of the nearby former Jurys Doyle Hotel with views of the River Shannon at O’Callaghan’s Strand.

      Mr Lally’s company, Damesfield Ltd, plans to build a €75m hotel and conference centre as well as 157 apartments on the site which he bought early last year for €9.75m.

      However local residents have appealed this decision to An Bord Pleanala, and Mr Whelan’s company Budelli has also appealed the refusal for its project.

      Meanwhile on the eastern side of the river, the council has also signalled the green light for a third project involving 95 apartments, 14 shops as well as a 100 bedroom hotel. Fordmount Developments Ltd, of which the directors are John Shee, Michael Barker and Michael Daly, are seeking to build the project on the site which centres on the former Savoy Cinema Complex with frontage onto Henry Street and Bedford Row.

    • #753146
      dave123
      Participant

      picture of a new development on upper williams street.

    • #753147
      dave123
      Participant

      few more city centre dev.

    • #753148
      jimg
      Participant

      Nothing too interesting there, dave123, except the varying degrees of uglyness.

    • #753149
      dave123
      Participant

      maybe, but i cant find decent buildings that are up for dev.
      apart from teh windmill dev.
      have you any news for limerick?

    • #753150
      Anonymous
      Participant

      All of those developments are particularly devoid of design quality which is a pity as Limerick more so than most places has the potential to be a fantastic urban space, virtually no other City I know has such a logical street pattern.

    • #753151
      dave123
      Participant

      a few more , i like barringtons hse because its an original building

    • #753152
      jimg
      Participant

      That’s a bit better. Any more details on the Barrington’s development? I know where the Tait’s building is, where are the other two?

    • #753153
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Barrington House is very well done, do you know who were the design team?

    • #753154
      dave123
      Participant

      the strange building is on the abbey river bridge ( north ring road)
      the massive building is near williams street i think,
      il check the barrington design team soon.

    • #753155
      dave123
      Participant

      Prestigious six-storey development at Barrington House

      DTZ Sherry Fitzgerald have been appointed sole agents for a new development known as Barrington House.

      Barrington House is a prestigious new six-storey block comprising bar/restaurant at ground and first floor level together with overhead office accommodation.

      The building is constructed to the highest specification which incorporates an attractive stone facade.

      Said Mr Cusack: “The innovative design provides for maximum natural light and avails of the attractive river views.”

      The bar/restaurant is accessed from street level and the office accommodation is accessed via a separate entrance lobby, which benefits from a passenger lift.

      Barrington House is located adjacent to Barrington’s Hospital and Limerick Art College and has unrestricted views over the Abbey River.

      Location offers ease if access to and from the city and there is a wide range of multi-storey car parks in the immediate vicinity.

      In addition, the area is tax-designated under the 1999 urban renewal scheme and there are valuable capital allowances available for qualifying purchasers.

      Note that the surrounding area is in mixed commercial use and includes a substantial number of large office developments together with a host of restaurants, bars and night-clubs.

      The bar/restaurant is available for sale or to let in one lot and the offices on a floor by floor basis. DTZ say that the accommodation will be finished to a shell and core specification;however, quotations for a fit-out can be provided upon receipt of a details specification.

      It is expected that the project will be available for occupation in Spring.
      contact John Buckely 061 418111
      you can see more information on sherryfitz.ie
      its also part of the urban renewel 1999.
      there is another property site on this development and i will be back with further information.

    • #753156
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’m sure DTZ will have no trouble securing a tenant that edge of the Island is very central and its setting is of a very high standard between the river and the former Hospital that closed in 1987. It was a tough brief to design around but from the picture shown the designers got it spot on.

    • #753157
      modular man
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      a few more , i like barringtons hse because its an original building

      Where in Limerick in the project with the photo title ‘strange building’?

    • #753158
      backspace
      Participant

      the ‘strange building’ is a block or two behind the old barringtons Hospital and facing onto the road that comes off the newish bridge beside Baals bridge.
      Haven t seen it in the flesh recently but i think it’s a mixum-gatherum apartment -office -shop stack em high sell em low affair with incredible hulk of parking peering out from behind. have no idea what the steel prow is all about

    • #753159
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Maybe they forgot to finish it.

      Barrington House looks rather good all right from that picture, as well as fitting into its context well.
      Any chance of enlarging your pics a bit Dave if possible? – bit tricky seeing the detail of the projects.
      Thanks for posting though.

    • #753160
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Its true a lot of new developments popping up in limerick(and indeed countrywide) lack a bit of ambition,its a real pity,most of the new structures tend to be quite boring,some try to use striking colours to distract from their banality,-never really works,unfortunately we’re also seeing the use of cheaper materials become more and more common.I’ve been pleasantly surprised though by the riverpoint building i must say,its turned out better than i imagined,the reflective glass facade makes it look quite imposing,according to the limerick leader it will be completed in the next month and get this all but one of the floors have been bought up,i felt it would be a huge gamble, but its obviously paid off,i wonder how many chose to relocate because of its landmark status.Anyway 1 thing we can say for sure is that limerick is almost unrecognisable from the city that was basically falling apart in the mid to late eighties!, theres actually a funny story of a planner from bilbao who was advising the city council on redevelopment plans in the early eighties, he commented that limerick seemed to have suffered a lot of damage during the war!..

    • #753161
      Tuborg
      Participant

      From the Limerick Leader 11 june 2005

      Ugliest building in city is to be demolished
      By BARRY DUGGAN

      WHAT is regarded by many as the ugliest building in the city is just weeks away from being demolished.

      Munchins’ House located at Bishop’s Quay is to be completely levelled by developer Michael Daly as the city continues its multi-million euro transformation along the riverfront.

      The Department of Agriculture are moving out of the building.

      Mr Daly, Managing Director of Fordmount Properties is behind a €200m development at a number of city centre sites.

      He has plans to build 95 apartments, a 100-bed hotel and 14 shop units over four floors at the three-quarter-acre site of the old Savoy cinema.

      The total height of the planned Henry Street development is up to 10 storeys, with a number of individual units having their shopping area spread out on four levels from basement to second floor.

      The Savoy cinema at Henry Street/Bedford Row had a 70-year entertainment history in Limerick. It was capable of seating almost 1,500 patrons for live concerts and movies.

      The former CBS student is also behind the €75m RiverPoint building project on Bishop’s Quay.

      The focal city building which is gaining enthusiastic reviews will be home to a bar, restaurant, fitness centre, residential units, a 250 space underground carpark along with 13 floors of offices.

      “All but one floor of offices has been taken up. Most of the offices are taken up by people who have offices in the city at the moment. There are over 100 apartments in the building also. When completed, there will be an estimated 1,000 in the building with around 400 people working there. It will help to transform the whole area,” commented Mr Daly.

      Mr Daly has also bought the €15-million-plus Castletroy Park Hotel with development potential on its lands.

    • #753162
      dave123
      Participant

      i thought St munchins house was the riverpoint building?
      i stolled around limerick on saturday , and there is a lot of changes happening,
      but O’connells street is a real pain in thee butt

    • #753163
      dave123
      Participant

      The development will consist of the redevelopment of the existing site and buildings for mixed retail/commercial park and includes the construction of the following:- (1) 8 no. retail warehouse units (including 1 no. outdoor garden centre of 1,170 sq. m. totalling 12,065 sq.m. (2) A 465 sq.m. motor showroom. (3) A 447 no. space surface car park. (4) Improvements to Ennis Road to provide turning lanes to the approved link road from Ennis Road to Clonmacken Road approved under planning register reference no. 02/1215 serving the redevelopment of the Caherdavin Centre. (5) The construction of a roundabout junction on the approved link road. and all other site development works including boundary treatment, lighting and landscaping on a site measuring 4.84 ha. 4.6 ha. of the development site is located within the administrative area of Limerick City Council. The proposal ranges in height from 5.2m to 9.2m. SEE ATTACHED SCHEDULE Ennis Road, South East of
      Ivan’s Junction,
      Clo

    • #753164
      dave123
      Participant

      Hollowfield Developments Ltd.
      C/O Healy & Partners Architects
      Barrow House
      Michael Street
      Permission for the construction of a mixed development. The development comprises of: Demolition of a five storey over basement infill building and a single storey building at 104 O’Connell Street; Construction of a new five storey over basement infill building at 104 O’Connell Street providing storage in basement, retail on ground floor, and offices on the floors above; Refurbishment, modification and addition to existing four storey over basement infill building at 103 O’Connell Street including a new facade and new fifth floor, providing retail and storage in basement, retail on ground floor and offices on the floors above, all associated services and site works. 103/104 O’Connell Street
      Limerick

      just a few developments that are likely to get permission.

    • #753165
      dave123
      Participant

      04531 John Moloney Motors,
      Punches Cross,
      Limerick.

      to build a showroom to the front of premises and seek permission to RETAIN, with proposed minor alterations, the existing showroom and offices at premises Punch’s Cross,
      Limerick.

      04536 Damesfield Ltd.,
      Seville House,
      New Dock Street,
      Galway.
      Permission for a mixed use development comprising: (1) 157 no. apartments in four blocks (4-7 storeys). (2) 184 no. bedroom hotel in a 6-8 storey block to include leisure centre, bar and restaurant, conference centre/function room, meeting rooms. (3) 350 car parking spaces and 40 bicycle parking spaces in two levels below ground. (4) 3 no. retail units and residential concierge at ground floor of Block A. (5) Bin and residential storage units at basement levels. SEE ATTACHED SCHEDULE FOR MORE DETAILS O’ Callaghans Strand,
      Ennis Road,
      Limerick.

      04559 Development Partnership Ltd., Limerick Enterprise
      Limerick Enterprise Development
      Park, Childers Road,
      Roxborough, Limerick.
      The development will consist of the demolition of 7 existing detached and 2 semi-detached dwellings and ancillary structures including garages and boundary walls to the John Craew Park Link Road and Childers Road/Southern Ring Road . The construction of the following: (i) a new entrance (ii) new boundary walls and landscaping (iii) a 4-storey 161 bedroom hotel with basement consisting of 73 two bedroom and 2 one bedroom hotel suites and 13 bedrooms, conferencing facilities and meeting rooms, bar and gym on the ground floor with restaurant on the first floor and basement with 123 carparking spaces, swimming pool, changing facilities (iv) 6 retail units one of which is an off-licence at ground floor level and restaurant with take-away at first floor level (v) plant room, bin storage yard, 143 surface carparking spaces (vi) relocation of 14 carparking spaces and drop off area for the creche SEE ATTACHED SCHEDULE FOR DETAILS

    • #753166
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Munchins house is that horrific concrete and plastic structure that has “welcomed” visitors to the city over the shannon bridge for far too long(think since the late 60s), thankfully its going to be demolished in august,i was getting worried they were going to reclad it!, first it was meant to go in 2003 then 2004 but now its finally goin to bite the dust!

      I’ve also enclosed a few pics of the savoy cinema thats going to be demolished shortly to make way for a new hotel and retail development,i think everyone will agree it’ll be no loss!, the only interesting part of the site is the former bedford row maternity hospital that was used as an office supplies store for the last 10 years or so

    • #753167
      dave123
      Participant

      thanks for that Turborg,

      it realy does look awful, what is going in there now , i heard it was a 13 storey building i could be wrong but its simular height to the standing building anyway ,

      The time Frank Mcdonald the Irish Times editor was doing arcitecture of the regional cities he mentioned that there was a 12 storey and 15 (riverpoint building) which is near completion im a bit confused…
      a decent high rise building would be perfect there as a it will form a real urban quater . it will fit in nicely as the the area is high density with the clarion and riverpoint already pointing towards the sky!

      im a fan of high rises, live in Dub and i really think the Riverpoit building is one of the most outstanding high rises in ireland , i would par it against the Georges office block in Dublin

      it will be interesting to see how they will develop the savoy?there is still a few pockets in Limerick that need ambitious ideas to come up with sometihng interesting because a lot of the bnew dev. are all simular and been built at a pheonamal rate

    • #753168
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Munchins house actually looks worse in them photos than id ever imagined,never gave it a second glance usually because of its sheer ugliness,i think this is a classic example of how not to build an office block, kinda looks like the kgb headquarters,it has that kind of look to it!. Judging by the digital image of riverpoint it looks like the second phase of riverpoint which replaces munchins house will be around 14 storeys(this will be the apartment block),its slightly taller than munchins. The whole project includes 25,000 sq ft of office space,100 apartments, 8,000 sq ft of retail,restaurants and bars facing the river, a leisure centre and 225 underground car parking spaces. As for the savoy ,i saw a plan of it in the local press,its going to be quite a tall structure,parts of it are twice the size of the present savoy complex,the hotel will be facing onto henry street and the majority of the retail units will be facing onto bedford row,these retail units will be fairly exclusive offering space over 4 floors,obviously aiming at the higher end of the market, i’ll try and find some photos of the plans as well as the plans for the former jurys site on the ennis road. I suppose the part of henry street that is looking a bit left out is the esb site,maybe we’ll see some action there soon enough, there are big plans for the top end of the street aswell,the area at the back of the old council offices is due for redevelopment very soon,i’ll try and dig out the plans for that also.

    • #753169
      GrahamH
      Participant

      How old is the Savoy Tuborg? 7 years? 10 years? Unfortunate to see such a comparitively new building being torn down – on a number of levels.

      Agreed about Munchins House though – what a ghastly building, esp as seen in that second image. The only good thing about it is the name 🙂
      Should be preserved for the new development.

    • #753170
      anto
      Participant

      The Savoy as it now stands was rebuilt around 89/90 I think. It’s a real pity not to have a cinema in the city centre I think from a cultural point of view.

      A lot of the action in Limerick now seems to be in the Castletroy or Dooradoyle/Raheen suburbs. All suburban sprawl. Limerick Count Council have their HQ in Dooradoyle, good building too from what I hear, but I’m sure it’s in their interest to promote the suburbs that are in their jurisdiction at the expense of the city. The Cirty are always looking for an extention to its boundary but I think their should be one authority covering Limerick city and county and probably Clare aswell. A mis west authority if you like,

    • #753171
      jimg
      Participant

      The commercial rates in Limerick are apparently very high. The rates outside the small city boundary presumably are much much lower. A perfectly tuned situation to reward suburbanisation at the expense of city development.

      Most of the recent development in the city has been apartments, office space and hotels – very little of it is retail. Until the city boundary expands, most retail development will happen in the suburbs. This is a pity because the low quality of the retail experience in the city is damaging and creates a vicious cycle; less and less retail businesses set up in the city so the council is forced to increase rates which further exacerbates the problem.

      As to the Savoy, while it’s a terrible waste to see a relatively large development pulled down after just 10 years or whatever it is, its replacement will hopefully provide something better than a blank wall facing Henry Street. This really killed Henry Street in terms of attracting footfall. It should be a prime city street given it’s location and size.

    • #753172
      dave123
      Participant

      I can;t wait to see the the design of the the St munchins develpment !!!

      the boundary extention feud! is really causing havock!!!! the county councils want the monopoly of the city which is very greedy! when nearly half of the entire population of the city is in Clare and couunty limerick
      its even causing cofusion to investors and multnationals who come to ireland think Limerick is unaatractive judging by its labour market , pop, rates , etc…..

      i think its one of the highest rates outside Dublin or its even higher? even the suburbs are paying big bucks for retail park devlopments too.

      there is a lot of derelict buildings been pulled down in the city centre , which is good but as Jimg said there is no major retail shops goin in just apartments mostly, which explains why retail rents are far lower the cork where as Patrick street is 3 times the price of criuses street.

      Does anyone know if there are brownfields site up for new developments at the docks whats goin up?
      threre is up to 250acres of land there 40 acres for dockland dev.
      which is for commercial residential and other uses inclu. upgrade of the docks etc.
      the the dockland company were planning to move some of it works further down stream to foynes etc.
      anyone have more information il try get some info in the meantime

      devlopment around cobert station should be thought about as its a major gateway into that side of the city
      some parts is rough and run down!

    • #753173
      dave123
      Participant

      foto of the docklands
      newtoen perry sq
      grannary
      treaty stone

    • #753174
      dave123
      Participant

      and nicolas street it has changed not much since 1200! medivel times

    • #753175
      dave123
      Participant

      here is a few mor pics , couldnt wait to post them !

    • #753176
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I wouldnt be too sympathetic towards the savoy, to be honest even though it was basically rebuilt in the late 80s it was never really finished to a high standard, to be honest i always hated it with its dull facade and horrible roof,the blank wall facing on to henry street just topped it off. Hopefully demolition will start in the next few weeks cos i think its replacement could be quite exciting. Meanwhile I’ve found a map of the boundary proposal and i think its pretty reasonable, the present situation is a pure joke, limerick city and its suburbs has a total population of around 100 or 110,000 yet only 52,000 live inside the city bounds!, castletroy has a population of 25,000 with a similar number living in raheen/dooradoyle and its plain to see how much development has taken place there in the last 10 years, a huge complex is to be built in castletroy, a similar one at coonagh cross and at the moment the crescent are extending again, this will bring its size up to around 100 units. All of this is bleeding the city dry, o connell st needs a serious revamp to bring it back to the prosperous street it was 40,50 years ago, it looks better in them old photos i posted than it does now!, there are a lot of trashy shop on the street at the moment, magic shops,tacky cheap shops and fast food outlets, a proper strategy needs to be put in place now. William street is also in need of attention, it has serious potential, we should get rid of the bus stops on the street and also the trailer trash that always seem to hang around outside the sports shops. Also I think it would help enormously if arthurs quay park was sold off for development, at the moment it is underused and only a loitering area for scumbags, it would certainly add a nice new quarter to the city centre.

      I’ll try and find out some more about the docklands, as far as i know the plans are fairly wide ranging,shops,apartments,museum(s),financial services centre etc.

      ps I think the actual map is a bit old but the proposed extension is correct

    • #753177
      anto
      Participant

      @Tuborg wrote:

      I wouldnt be too sympathetic towards the savoy, to be honest even though it was basically rebuilt in the late 80s it was never really finished to a high standard, to be honest i always hated it with its dull facade and horrible roof,the blank wall facing on to henry street just topped it off. Hopefully demolition will start in the next few weeks cos i think its replacement could be quite exciting. Meanwhile I’ve found a map of the boundary proposal and i think its pretty reasonable, the present situation is a pure joke, limerick city and its suburbs has a total population of around 100 or 110,000 yet only 52,000 live inside the city bounds!, castletroy has a population of 25,000 with a similar number living in raheen/dooradoyle and its plain to see how much development has taken place there in the last 10 years, a huge complex is to be built in castletroy, a similar one at coonagh cross and at the moment the crescent are extending again, this will bring its size up to around 100 units. All of this is bleeding the city dry, o connell st needs a serious revamp to bring it back to the prosperous street it was 40,50 years ago, it looks better in them old photos i posted than it does now!, there are a lot of trashy shop on the street at the moment, magic shops,tacky cheap shops and fast food outlets, a proper strategy needs to be put in place now. William street is also in need of attention, it has serious potential, we should get rid of the bus stops on the street and also the trailer trash that always seem to hang around outside the sports shops. Also I think it would help enormously if arthurs quay park was sold off for development, at the moment it is underused and only a loitering area for scumbags, it would certainly add a nice new quarter to the city centre.

      I’ll try and find out some more about the docklands, as far as i know the plans are fairly wide ranging,shops,apartments,museum(s),financial services centre etc.

      ps I think the actual map is a bit old but the proposed extension is correct

      That park has never worked. Big mistake planting those trees and screening off views of the Shannon. Still people never like to lose parks so might be difficult.

      That new building near Tait’s clock, what’s the verdict? Haven’t seen it myself not too sure about it though. I was in Limerick recently and I noticed the corner beside the Lock bar is derilict. This seems a great pity such a prominent corner in an are that has been improved. I think the Bar seems to be using it for storage. Also notice that there’s big bottle back just outside St, Mary’s Cathedral. I’m all for recycling but this is crazy.

    • #753178
      dave123
      Participant

      i agree with you Anto about the arthurs quay park, such a amazing 360 view is really sheltered ???from the centre of the park you can see feck all i haven’t been there for a few years myself

      the new building near Taits clock , is a real splendid design of a building!!!
      not only is it different and cutting edge it also fits really well with the old buildings too

      you have to go see it for yourself , and you’ll see the resemblance, well thats my verdict
      and its quite different to most new buildings built in the city or others new dev in other cities.
      the pavement in even brings out the building further i think (almost forgot)

      its a real pity the cresent didnt build upwards ? realisitc there is no land for anymore dev. practically
      they could of come up with two levels at the old sections of the SC where the ceilings are very low and would make more of a balance throughout the entire Sc as the new Units have very high ceilings like liffy Valley.

      there are some real derilict buildings that were rfine in thier old days but pity they are to ruins , even on some major throughfares and courners in the city

    • #753179
      dave123
      Participant

      i got a pic of the dev. of royal georges site (not sure )
      havent a clue of the rest of them
      all are high quality design
      taits courner (mistake) its not taits courner just came up when i ssved iteml.ie architects

    • #753180
      dave123
      Participant

      second 1 is sarfields bridge.

    • #753181
      jimg
      Participant

      That park has never worked.

      Yeah it’s been an absolute failure. It’s hard to say this about a park I’d rather see it built over. This is especially weird for me because the design of the park, from what I recall, isn’t too bad and the tourist center is an interesting building. Unfortunately it’s location means it was always cut off from the city; it is bounded by the river and a three lane street/road and there is nothing to attract footfall anywhere near it. Even the buildings across the road from it are effectively dead; you have a multistory car park and the back of the run-down Dunnes shopping centre (discussed earlier).

      If it were to be built over, it would represent a great opportunity to create a new quarter in the city centre. You could have Bars/resteraunts/cafes and shops opening onto the quayside path/walk that’s there. The risk is that very little proper thinking would go into its redevelopment and Limerick would end up with more lowish-grade apartment blocks like many of those around the docks area.

      By the way dave123, where are you getting the pictures you post? Most of them are frustratingly tiny and it’s impossible to get any sort of an impression of the buildings they contain.

    • #753182
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Ah dave please say they’re taking the piss with the royal george site, remember this is O CONNELL STREET, the city’s main thoroughfare and this is the best they can do, i feel sick looking at it. It basically looks like a mediocre apartment block, or a modern version of the penneys and brown thomas disasters, is there no limit to our desire to destroy this city! What is going on in the city council?, how could they approve a building like this, i was hoping for a classical design,perhaps something georgian to fit the character of the city centre(or whats left of it). This is another of aidan brooks developments, i mean fair play for having the courage and ambition to develop these sites but the architecture on many of his projects has been questionable to say the least!, i think it leaves a lot to be desired!…

    • #753183
      JPD
      Participant

      That is a very small image could you post a bigger one dave?

    • #753184
      dave123
      Participant

      i don’t how to post them larger? i know the royal george building looks way out of proportion and looks more like floor tiles , i didn;t really look to much at because i don;t the plans?i would like to be able to post them straight onto the thread without attachments?

    • #753185
      Tuborg
      Participant

      This is the application for the area in upper henry street behind the old council offices,this site is crrently occupied by some fairly decrepid buildings and one or 2 have been derelict for around 15 years!, one of these buildings contains the hiv/aids mural,(i think it was a take off of the us army recruitment posters,with uncle sam pointing his finger) that used to freak me out when i was younger!

      Demolition of sheds and structures at 23 Henry St.; Demolition of 24 Henry St. and the sheds and extensions to the rear; Demolition of the sheds and structures to the rear of 76-78 O’Connell St.; Demolition of a boundary wall and two toilet and stair returns to the rear of 79-83 O’Connell St. Construction of a pedestrian access and ancillary maintenance works to the archway at Hartstonge St. Excavation and construction of a basement car park on the site, to include the widening of Savins Lane and the provision of a through road from Savins Lane to Hartstonge St. via the Archway, Hartstonge St., a Protected Structure. Construction of a single six storey building fronting 23/24 Henry St. with 44 apartments (2 one bedroom and 42 two bedroom), ground floor and basement retail and ground floor office use. Construction of a single six storey building to the rear of 76-83 O’Connell St., with 74 apartments (6 one bedroom & 66 two bedroom & 2 three

      And this is for the site immediately next door,

      for the demolition of the existing buildings, out-buildings and structures at the above addresses, the construction of a basement car park including a retail storage area and the construction of a sixth storey building over to include four retail shops at ground level including all associated ancillary accommodation, first floor suite with 24 apartments over including all associated site works and site development works. This proposal is located in an architectural conservation area and no. 24, 25 and 26 Henry St. are Protected Structures.

      Thankfully roches stores havent got permission to retain the liddy streets buildings for storage,if the city council were any good theyd totally reject it and tell roches they’re in breach of the city centre development plan although then again who would have any confidence in them hopeless shower!..

    • #753186
      phatman
      Participant

      Wow, you know i gotta say im impressed with all this development in Limerick of late, and especially some of the proposals im seeing, alot of the earlier development (late 90’s) didn’t do much for me, but definitely alot of thought and effort going into sprucing up the city in general now, not just the waterfront. Keep it up!

    • #753187
      dave123
      Participant

      i also heard that the entire block on O Connelss street where supermacs is located excluding supermacs itself is been knocked for new devolpment , reason i know it because a friend of mine knows the guy who runs supermacs said it , a ptretty run block i have to say ,
      there is a lot of happining at the mo
      but there is nt enough high quality design building something of arcitectural significance?
      roches stores really annoy me !!!
      there is so much potential in teh city centre
      altough its obvious that henry street is really happining and buzzing

    • #753188
      dave123
      Participant

      Enhanced city streets

      WITH the next phase of Limerick city centre’s street remodelling due to commence shortly on upper Bedford Row and plans currently in hand to develop a number of the city’s laneways, the transformation of the heart of Limerick city is well and truly underway.

      Last week councillors were presented with further details of the upgrade and voicing his confidence in the project, Cllr Joe Leddin, chairman of Limerick City Council’s Transportation Strategic Committee, pointed out that already the city has benefited from enhanced quality surfaces, street lighting, street furniture, wider pavements and additional tree planting.

      “The next phase of the street remodelling will include areas between O’Connell Street and Cecil Street, William Street, Little William Street, Little Catherine Street and Fox’s Bow, all of which will result in a more enhanced street landscape.”

      The councillor tempered his enthusiasm however with some cautionary observations: “While currently experiencing a major change in its physical look, Limerick does face a direct threat from the arrival of suburban retail centres and we must now act to make the city centre a more attractive and safe place in which to shop and socialise and to do business in.

      “Most modern cities now have their centre either fully or partially pedestrianised and Limerick must follow this route. With the future completion of the fourth river crossing, which will result in less through traffic coming into the city, we must seize this opportunity to redirect the remaining traffic volumes around the city and breathe new life and activity back into the heart of Limerick city,” he said.

      The Transportation Committee chairman also stressed the importance of green routes to successful pedestrianisation in the city.

      “We need quality green routes to enable people to access the city quickly and efficiently with reliable public transport. Once suitable orbital routes for traffic have been identified around the city there’s no reason why we should not move towards complete pedestrianisation of O’Connell Street.”

      The councillor said he is convinced that a vibrant city centre creates an atmosphere that cannot be found in a retail complex, which is why the “creation of a city centre with character, buzz and charm will become a huge source of appeal that will totally revitalise the heart of Limerick city”.
      🙂

    • #753189
      dave123
      Participant

      i heard that clare and limerick county council rejected the boundary extension yet again????
      i cannot understand this it has not been enlaged since 1950???

      its real population is close to 100,000
      Galway, athlone and othe centres have expanded theirs
      considering glaway city bounday is 2 or three times bigger than limerick city boundary and twice hte size of corks ciy boundary??
      it dosent make sense…..

    • #753190
      dave123
      Participant

      the county councils are absalute fools , really stupid .

    • #753191
      dave123
      Participant

      Riverpoint Tower will be completed in two months

      By Claire Connolly Doyle
      THE city’s flagship building, the 75million euro 14-storey Riverpoint tower, opposite Shannon Bridge, will be ready in August. As part of the development, the worst eyesore in Limerick, Munchin House, will be torn down and rebuilt in keeping with the striking architecture of the neighbouring tower.

      It could not be demolished before now as its tenant, the Department of Agriculture occupies most of it and will be moving into the Riverpoint tower when its ready for occupation.

      So far, all of the apartments in the building to the right of the tower and to its rear have been sold and marketing will begin in September of the remaining 100 that will be located in the building that will replace Munchin House.

      This development has a completion deadline of July 2006.

      According to Rooney Auctioneers’ Gordon Kearney, all but one of the tower’s 14 storeys have been sold with just the ninth floor remaining.

      But Riverpoint isn’t cheap. With two bedroomed apartments costing “north of 300,000 euro” according to Mr Kearney, they are well in excess of the average apartment price in Limerick. With tax incentives, two bedroomed apartments cost in or around 250,000 euro, or 210,000 without, according to Mr Kearney.

      “But considering the location and the luxury of this property, it isn’t expensive,” insists Mr Kearney, “the views are spectacular.”

      The Riverpoint tower is not as high as The Clarion Hotel, whose own architecture it mirrors. The Clarion towers above the Shannon at 17 storeys and 208 feet tall.

      Clarion manager, Sean Lally said this week that he is “delighted” with the building and that it is “wonderful to see two of the highest buildings in the country alongside each other in Limerick”. He added that he hoped there would be more.

      The entire Riverpoint development includes 124 one, two and three-bedroomed apartments and almost 67,000 sq ft of office space spanning 14 floors. It will have an on-site restaurant and bar on the ground floor which has already been purchased, a gym, creche and several, probably small, shops. It also has 200 parking spaces which can be purchased either by residents or workers. Each one costs 15,000 euro to buy.

      Riverpoint’s developer is Limerickman Michael Daly who is also behind the Savoy development which he will be beginning work on next year.

      Dublin based firm, Burke-Kennedy Doyle, are the architects of Riverpoint, which may well be in the running for some awards for their eye-catching design.

    • #753192
      dave123
      Participant

      is the bounday extension going ahead ??
      limeick has basically little as 190 acrea of development land left in the existing boundary so there is nochice but to build up , as their is lots of low resdential areas of the city which could be looked at ???

    • #753193
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I’m not really sure about the boundary extension,very hard to call it either way,it was decided at the last city council meeting that they would go ahead with the application and present a formal request to the environment minister Of course this will probably gather dust for a few years as we enter into “detailed study” after “detailed study” and then reports, clare and limerick county councils are dead against it and they will carry some significant weight, i dont think limerick co co have a leg to stand on,they are hindering the development of the city with their small minded attitudes, their two biggest earners the raheen business park and the national technological park are in the city and their success is down to the fact that theyre located in the city,they wouldnt work out in the middle of west limerick would they!, its the councils own fault they havent provided an equal spread of industry and employment throughout their jurisdiction. I really hope it goes through but judging by the way in which this government has treated limerick, i wouldnt count on it. By the way where is willie o dea on this issue?, never heard him say a word!..

      From the local press

      Two councils refuse boundary extension

      By Marie Hobbins
      JUST one week before Mayor Michael Hourigan comes to the end of his mayoralty his concerted efforts to engage the neighbouring local authorities of Limerick and Clare County Councils in positive support for an extension to the city’s boundary has received a complete thumbs down from both parties.

      At the end of last year detailed reports on the issue, carried out in accordance with the Local Government Act were submitted by Limerick City Council to its neighbouring councils but the response in both cases has been a resounding rejection to the case put forward for an extension.

      The Council will now put their submission before the Environment Minister, Dick Roche.

      According to the results of a survey of 500 people living in the area which the proposed extension would take in, 10 per cent said they did not know who administers the area in which they live, 60 per cent said they would prefer one administration, compared to three as at present and 40 per cent would prefer three.

      The survey was carried out by the MRBI.

      It further revealed that under Limerick City Council, 21 per cent of people felt things would be better, 60 per cent felt things would stay the same and 19 per cent felt things would be worse.

      It is now anticipated that a boundary commission will be established to investigate the issue and sticking to his contention that “a strong core drives a region,” Mayor Hourigan said it is imperative in the interest of both the city and region that the Minister makes a positive decision on the proposal which was first mooted in 1974.

      “The boundary has not budged since 1950 and from the replies of the opposing councils it appears that they are happy for time to stand still but a recent survey shows that in the proposed area some 60 per cent would prefer a single authority to run the city.”

      Stressing that failure to resolve the boundary issue is impeding the city’s development and the entire region, the mayor said the Council has put forward a compelling argument for change.

      “It’s clear that having three local authorities responsible for a city of Limerick’s size is not the most efficient and effective way to position it as the driver of growth for the Mid West and the partition of the city into three is now the greatest stumbling block to economic growth.”

      There was overall support from the councillors that despite the negative response from Limerick and Clare the issue should be driven forward with Cllr John Ryan aptly reminding the members that in 1991 the then mayor, Jim Kemmy said that nobody can put a halt to the march of a city.

      “Our neighbours are not living up to their responsibilities in urban areas and the head -in-the-sand attitude by refusing to consult on the issue is not working,” he added

    • #753194
      dave123
      Participant

      yeah ,ironic that the county council had to build their county council offices at the cresent to keep their tradition of the “county” within the city!!
      newcastlewest is a booming town because of investment from the city not because of the council .
      they should invest in other parts of limerick???
      its entirely limerick county councils fault for not using a proper stragegy for even devlopment throughout the county instead of cramming around the city .
      i wouldn’t be wrong in saying west limerick is one of the most neglected rural society in ireland?
      if you go to kerry, “would you stop in west limerick ?”
      limerick city is really thriving compared to what it is put up against !!
      like the media , boundary extension, commercial rates etc

      lets hope limerick can keep building and positive improving and a buzzing 🙂 city for years to come!

    • #753195
      dave123
      Participant

      the county councils will lose out in the future if they refuse to see the real picture with limerick as a hub/gateway
      limerick will be seen as stagnant and drive investmet elseehere
      clare and Limerick councils are very foolish!! they do not want to see the benifets of the the boundary extension in the future???

      its becoming a major joke ,whereas most people in the Caherdavin (Clare side)area which totally built up and is part of the agglomeration of the city and there services and infasturtre are third world
      as east clare is seriously underspent
      as there are people living there ,ostly from limerick city who want proper services, and be part of the city which is clearly recognised as part of the city.

    • #753196
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Its interesting to note that despite all the talk about the docklands redevelopment it seems to be very much full steam ahead for the park canal restoration,i thought this would be put on the back burner for a while but listening to an interview with the new mayor, a new masterplan has been published for the area between lock quay and the university of limerick,and about time too, this area has huge potential,the area immediately south of lock quay is a fairly prominent and visible area as one travels on the old dublin road. It is in serious need of redevelopment especially as many new buildings(such as the barringtons development) sprung up in recent years,this area rather undermines these improvements

      EXTRACTS FROM PRESS RELEASE

      The Park Canal was constructed in 1757-1758 to transport goods to and from Limerick City. The canal system was invaluable in the transport of heavy goods, such as turf, potatoes, coal and, in particular, Guinness. But by 1929, with modernisation of transport and the building of the electricity generation station at Ardnacrusha, the canal had become obsolete and fell into dilapidation.
      The majority of structures and buildings along the canal are located between Lock Quay and Park Bridge. To the north side of Lock Quay there are two derelict buildings in a prominent location with potential for renovation to compatible uses. The lock gates were replaced recently as part of the Limerick Main Drainage Project. A terrace of partly-dilapidated buildings to the south bank of the canal have potential for redevelopment. Further east the old Guinness warehouses are derelict and subject to a demolition order.

      Generally it is proposed that improvement works are concentrated at the two main focal points of Lock Quay and Park Bridge, and along the southern bank of the canal. It is envisaged that the northern bank would retain its informal character, and with the addition of fishing platforms, while the southern bank would accommodate a continuous cycleway, improved surfaces, lighting and street furniture. The first phase of the Canal Restoration Project will allow its banks to be opened up for leisure and amenity purposes, while providing the catalyst for a variety of potential canalside development projects, such as a sports museum, craft shops, some residential, cafes and parks. Other initiatives should include the introduction of facilities for watercraft, and the creation of canal bank walks and cycling paths.

      Phase 2 of the project would include:

      Renovation of the two buildings to the north side of Lock Quay (e.g. for refreshment and/or interpretation uses);
      Redevelopment of the terraced buildings to the south side of the canal by Lock Quay;
      Redevelopment of the Guinness Building;
      Redevelopment of land on south side of canal between the proposed Corbally Link Road and Park Road;
      Possible provision of public car park to southwest of Park Bridge to serve canal users;
      Possible redevelopment of land to the south of Canal Bank, between Park Road and Plassey Walk;
      Creation of a canal basin between Park Bridge and the railway bridge providing berthing and related facilities

      i’ve found some good detailed plans of the area but they’re too big to be posted as this site has a 290kb limit or something 😡

    • #753197
      dave123
      Participant

      thanks for that Turborg,

      it will great to see the canal to go ahead !
      it will create a haven for anglers and bosts and etc..
      especially with the new marina planned for limerick city.

      that side of the city is going explode with new happinings !
      it would be a good idea to have a commuting service from the city centre to the university by canal

      great to see focus on many areas of the city that are being devloped, not just purley the quays and city centre…

      where is the guiness building?

    • #753198
      jimg
      Participant

      I found the plans on the council web site here . It’s a very impressive civic project and I like the fact that they plan to leave “the informal nature” of the north bank as is. It’s strange ‘though that the derelict buildings, at the city end, are only earmarked for “future restoration”. I don’t know these buildings, anyone know what state they’re in?

    • #753199
      dave123
      Participant

      for the demolition of the exisitng Petrol Filling Station and the erection of a 114 bed hotel comprising basement level, ground floor and six bedroom floors overhead plus ancillary bar and dining area, reception/office area, ancillary back of house areas, plant and service entrance. The development also incorporates a retail unit comprising 744sq.m; ancillary site and landscape works at the site of the existing Top Garage Dock Road
      Limerick

    • #753200
      dave123
      Participant

      Is there any plans to widin the childers road, i know they did a traffic study, bus lanes, cycles lanes etc ,
      there are new signals for turning off to the new retail park. which is going to cause more traffic problems
      there are two traffic junctions within yards of each other.

      other news
      (Childers road retail park i also nearly completed)
      H&M ,River island, Next are moving into Cresent SC too (definate)

      it looks like the southern ring road dosent seem to have any effect positive effect on the childers road ?
      it should be a dual lane road, sooner the better, as there is so much developments going up.

      [align=center:22f8bst2]
      [/align:22f8bst2]
      piture of park canal project

    • #753201
      dave123
      Participant

      this is one of the nicst red brick buildings i have seen in a long time !
      [align=center:101vitst]
      [/align:101vitst]

    • #753202
      phatman
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      this is one of the nicst red brick buildings i have seen in a long time !
      [align=center:3vpluyeb]
      [/align:3vpluyeb]

      Ya think? Can’t say i like it, more of the same bland, boxy, small-windowed fare i reckon. Maybe to see it in person might do it more justice. My favourite red brick building of recent times is on Camden Quay in Cork, though it is a pity they didn’t colour co-ordinate it with the rest of the buildings on Camden Place, it’s a different shade and hence doesn’t fit into the surrounds as much as it might.
      Where is the building you posted?

    • #753203
      dave123
      Participant

      upper williams street mulgrave street. there is another devoplment simular to it but more original and fits in well to the mahon house devlopment.

    • #753204
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Childers road is one of the biggest failures ever!, it has never done anything near the job it was supposed to,but of course it is too close to the city centre to act as a ring road. It definately needs to be widened,at least between the parkway and tipperary r/bouts, the railway bridge in roxborough is a problem and i dont think iarnrod eireann are that accomodating in these situations,there is plenty of room to widen the road along much of its length, it was a disaster that the road was never extended to the dock road,there is still talks of it now but i dont see where it can be fitted in, all routes are basically blocked by development. I think to be fair to the ring road we wont really see the real benefits until the second phase to the N18 is completed , its a disgrace that the whole project wasnt completed in 1 go,of course we shouldnt really be surprised, we dont exactly get our fair share down here do we1!. Must say if its true that H&M are coming to the cresent its only more bad news for the city centre, i think zara are moving in aswell. i think it just shows that a lot of the retail accomodation is just too small,thats why river island and next are moving to purpose built units,after this next will have 3 outlets in limerick, i think hmv are talking about opening out there aswell,their store in o connell/cruises street is a bit cramped,next are also looking for a bigger store in the city centre,most likely in the new bedford row development, (actually i see they’ve started stripping the old savoy, must be coming down fairly soon),also oasis are moving from cruises street to the brown thomas store again because its bigger, i think they were outbid for cruises cafes(formerly bewleys) by new look.

      Also the new cathaoirleach of Limerick co co bridgid teefy is totally against the boundary extension, oh dear!

      SELL ARTHURS QUAY PARK NOW!…

    • #753205
      Mob79
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      this is one of the nicst red brick buildings i have seen in a long time !
      [align=center:3db1n4u2]
      [/align:3db1n4u2]

      I think the ground floor lets buildings like this down so often, it’s so unbelievably bland and uninteresting, our streets will all be so monotonous. I do like recessed balconies though as opposed to cages stuck on to a sliding door.

    • #753206
      dave123
      Participant

      there has been a few buildings on Williams street that are getting planning permission to be refurbished , which is great news as this throughfare has been nelgected for quite some time.
      31 and 32 which consist of ans exrension to rear and redevelopment of all 4 floors, Facade etc.

      there two other properties on williams street tthat are planning to refurbished their premises as far as i m aware.
      Not to mention the new apartments being under construction on upper Williams streeet.
      including Mahon house (above pic)

    • #753207
      dave123
      Participant

      just came across a recent planning permission .
      for Castletroy shopping centre on the Dublin rd , where the new cinema storm is located.

      It consists of a new mall of total approx 7107sq m
      muiti storey cark park of three levels
      retail space of 682 sq m
      and alterations the existing centre

      does anyone know what is going in it?

      its very worring for the city centre ?
      any comments on this ? :confused:

    • #753208
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I think this is one of the more ridiculous applications to come before the council, castletroy shopping centre has been a major flop since it opened 4 years ago, it still has a good few vacant units and i’ve been in there loads of times as i live only a short walk away when im in college and the place is always unbelievably quiet, if it wasnt for superquinn it would have closed by now!, i suppose they’re banking on the cinema to bring in the crowds. Its obvious that developers are more willing to take a chance in the suburbs than the city centre, again because the rates are much too high and we all know who’s fault this is!, if this goes ahead it will mean 3 shopping centres around the city being extended and at least 2 more major ones in the pipeline, i think we really need to fastrack some of the city centre proposals, bedford row redevelopment, city centre pedestrianisation etc.

      As there are so many premises up for sale/lease in william street it means an excellent opportunity to give the street back its status as one of the best shopping streets in town as it was always considered in the past, quality retailers should be sought, no point replacing crap with even more crap!..

    • #753209
      dave123
      Participant

      Yet a another retail parl devlopment , by a cork devloper is brought .
      beside the B&Q retail and east retail park!

      this is getting crazy ??
      there is nearly enogh concentration of a blancherstown style town ?

      Is there any apart from the Bedford row, Henry street , riverside area ?
      i haven’t been in Limerick for some time….

    • #753210
      dave123
      Participant

      Turborg, remember you mentioned the Guiness site earlier as part of the canal restoration projest well, i just found some more info about
      it

      it will be a very intersting site for new devlopment
      anyone know the sites wherabouts??

      No move on Guinness site until the Autumn

      A CITY councillor’s perseverance will have to last until after the summer recess before he is any further enlightened as to what is being planned for the city site formerly occupied by Guinness.

      Cllr Joe Leddin has been seeking information for over a year now as to what, if any definite plans are in the pipeline for development on the valuable city-centre site which is owned by Limerick City Council.

      “I can’t get an answer as to what is happening on this site. I’ve repeatedly asked because I’m repeatedly asked by people living near it what, if any plans are in progress for the site and why it has remained idle for so long.”

      Cllr Leddin pointed out that the former city manager, Brendan Keating agreed to the demolition of the old Guinness building after it had fallen into dereliction.

      The councillor was told by Limerick city manager, Tom Mackey that plans for the site hinge on other possible developments that may occur in the surrounding area.

      “I ask the indulgence of the Council until after the summer recess when I will come back to this,” he told Cllr Leddin.

      also ,
      THE decision by Limerick City Council to grant planning permission for a retail park development at the rear of Ashbrook Estate has shocked residents who are currently appealing the planning application to An Bord Pleanala.

    • #753211
      lexington
      Participant

      Usually I keep up to date-ish on these things, but any word from Shannonside about teh IRFU’s redevelopment of Thomond Park? (The venue not the contributor! :p )

    • #753212
      dave123
      Participant

      [SIZE[IMG]=7][align=center:2ch822gc]
      [/align:2ch822gc][/SIZE][/IMG]

    • #753213
      dave123
      Participant

      😡 how come there are very small!!!! 😡 :confused:

    • #753214
      dave123
      Participant

      yeah , I know i’m working on that , I norrmally sent stuff from my college computer which is LANand can only post certain images to the site. 🙁
      I do also have a dilemma to why everytime i sent a photo there are so f””””” small…
      i strolled so many web pages to try and find any images on thomond park dev. , and i couldn’t find any ,

      but i’ll wotk on it…. 😮

    • #753215
      dave123
      Participant

      I still can’t make a image larger, can anybody help me please?

    • #753216
      Tuborg
      Participant

      With regard to the guinness building, i think the one they are referring to here is the old guinness depot on the roxboro road,not far from the train station, this has been basically abandoned for the last couple of years and the whole site is in fairly poor shape, the cie works are located close by and there has been a lot of wrangling over proposed uses for these sites, i think its going to rumble on for quite some time yet!. These are two large and strategically very important sites with huge potential, they are suitable for a large number of uses and hopefully wont be bought up for another boring “exclusive” apartment complex, this area is in need of some serious rejuvenation and a proper plan needs to be drawn up. The guinness site was mooted as a proposed location for a new train station as all the mainline tracks run through its grounds but its all gone fairly quiet on this front lately, i’ll keep an eye on it over the coming months.

      As for thomond park, a revamp here is long overdue, the place is a bit of a kip,especially in comparison to the gaelic grounds which really puts it in the shade, i think the plan at the moment is to build 2 new stands at either side of the pitch and leave 2 uncovered terraces behind the goals, i was hoping they would go the whole hog and cover the entire ground but leave standing space at each end of the pitch, this is the way most stadiums on the continent are now built.

      Its good to see that the irfu are commited to developing thomond park and keeping munsters home games where they rightfully belong. A proper stadium with corporate facilities would be a huge boost for the city! all we need now is for the mackey stand to be replaced and we would have 2 stadiums for everyone to be envious of!..

    • #753217
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Dave – when you open the image fully, right click it and go to Properties and copy that address. That way you are using the address of the large image rather than the small one.

    • #753218
      dave123
      Participant

      Would anyone agree that the roundabouts in Limerick are treacherous???
      the main N20 Dual carrigway to Cork and Kerry has a deadly right angle section of road that really is a planning disaster.
      who ever design it , should be kicked out of the country!!!!
      most dual carrigways are generally a straight strech of road and does not end in a an interection with a dealdy roundabout with other access roads off it.
      Tourists find it very confusing!!!
      Today I was heading back from the cresent SC and A tourist in front of me was indicating to stay on the ringroad towards Dublin and thought been on it you would n’t have turn right off the roundabout, instead nearl rammed into our car!!!
      Its a very stupid juntion….

    • #753219
      MT
      Participant

      A bit OT, but as you’ve a keen interest in road development you might be interested in the following forum, Dave.

      http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk

      It seems to cater for both British and Irish roads.

    • #753220
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      With regard to the development of shopping centres, I am heavily against them. Everyting about the architecture of shopping centres creates negative psycho-social feelings. Crescent (and Casteltroy) shopping centre should be bulldozed en masse and redeveloped beyond the south court hotel as a ready-designed “town” ala terenure in Dublin, only with some pedestrian streets, and a light rail system serving it. A light rail hub should be based on the shopping centre site, building on the existing rail line, with links to Ennis, Raheen, and Colbert Station.

    • #753221
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      @modular man wrote:

      I agree that limerick has some very high quality streetscapes, especially the Georgian areas however my impression (irish person, not from Limerick) is that it lacks any quality public spaces (the streetscapes aside). I never feel like there is a central point. Aurthers quay park is vastly underused addition which feels too tucked away from O’ Connel street behind a Dunnes stores which has seen better days.
      I think that a lot people from outside Limerick only know it as they used to have to pass through on the way to Clare or kerry and have the impression of a one street town. Limerick has a lot of potential and there has been enormous improvements over the past fifteen years. I hope this trend continues.
      I also think that the by-pass from the Castletroy side is one of the most important projects for the city and years overdue. I presume it has opened as live abroad so have not visited in a couple of years. Has it made a big difference?
      It would be good if This thread could be kept updated in the same fashion as the ‘look at the state of Cork’ thread.

      I am so glad the point (and this discussion at large) has come to pass. I have for a long time wished I had the insight to bring intuition if my 16 yr old mind to the planning table when Arthurs key Shopping centre was being built. It failed for a number of reasons. 1. It was so over hyped that everyone was very excited about it, so it’s flaws were initially accepted. 2. It was conceived very obviously by someone, perhaps not from limerick, or who had never been to places like paris, rome, copenhagen etc, where the use of space in cities is the very thing that makes them not just attractive to look at, but also places that are nice to be in. Arthurs Quay should have been built, but on the waterfront, where the (junky filled) park now is. The park is a hiding place, but could so easily have swapped position with the shopping centre, making it a wide cobbled centre piece to a city that would evolve promisingly thereafter. Imagine if limerick had a square/open space as its centre: It would be sheltered from the river, and even the shopping center on the river’s edge could have had it’s awful restuarants/cafes on the river front, overlooking the marina and some of the best views in Limerick.

      I think the people who failed in their capacity at this level owe the people who are proud of Limerick a debt.

    • #753222
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      Turborg, remember you mentioned the Guiness site earlier as part of the canal restoration projest well, i just found some more info about
      it

      it will be a very intersting site for new devlopment
      anyone know the sites wherabouts??

      No move on Guinness site until the Autumn

      A CITY councillor’s perseverance will have to last until after the summer recess before he is any further enlightened as to what is being planned for the city site formerly occupied by Guinness.

      Cllr Joe Leddin has been seeking information for over a year now as to what, if any definite plans are in the pipeline for development on the valuable city-centre site which is owned by Limerick City Council.

      “I can’t get an answer as to what is happening on this site. I’ve repeatedly asked because I’m repeatedly asked by people living near it what, if any plans are in progress for the site and why it has remained idle for so long.”

      Cllr Leddin pointed out that the former city manager, Brendan Keating agreed to the demolition of the old Guinness building after it had fallen into dereliction.

      The councillor was told by Limerick city manager, Tom Mackey that plans for the site hinge on other possible developments that may occur in the surrounding area.

      “I ask the indulgence of the Council until after the summer recess when I will come back to this,” he told Cllr Leddin.

      also ,
      THE decision by Limerick City Council to grant planning permission for a retail park development at the rear of Ashbrook Estate has shocked residents who are currently appealing the planning application to An Bord Pleanala.

      The space created by the derelict land close to the canal should be used to build a light rail line from the university to the city centre before any more meritless developments are built on these lands.

    • #753223
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      Would anyone agree that the roundabouts in Limerick are treacherous???
      the main N20 Dual carrigway to Cork and Kerry has a deadly right angle section of road that really is a planning disaster.
      who ever design it , should be kicked out of the country!!!!
      most dual carrigways are generally a straight strech of road and does not end in a an interection with a dealdy roundabout with other access roads off it.
      Tourists find it very confusing!!!
      Today I was heading back from the cresent SC and A tourist in front of me was indicating to stay on the ringroad towards Dublin and thought been on it you would n’t have turn right off the roundabout, instead nearl rammed into our car!!!
      Its a very stupid juntion….

      I presume the said round about will someday aim to continue on to the river to cross the shannon to the airport – or am I mistaken?

    • #753224
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Has the guinnesss building been mooted as a rail link to castletroy? i.e. light rail sort of thing? I think a light rail system would do the most to give limerick the jump on the rest of ireland’s planless cities and shove it up the &rses of its many detractors.

    • #753225
      gregos
      Participant

      I think the Luas is expected to cost about 800 million euros. Fair enough. We don’t begrudge the expenditure of public funds to provide the people of Dublin with this fine public transport facility. Now, compared to Dublin, Limerick is just a tiddler with maybe 10% of the population, so perhaps we could look forward to tiddler-sized public funding of 80 million euros to build a light rail system here? How many chances, do you reckon? Two?

    • #753226
      dave123
      Participant

      It has been rumoured, also the parkjway has been roumoured to have a rail stop too.
      Limerick is one of the few cities outside Dublin that has more than a few rail lines connecting the city and many unused lines for example Foynes and Tralee lines
      now with the Cork to sligo rail plan is mooted again , surley some plan will have to be drawn up
      as Colbert Station will not cope with the extra numbers???
      the luas type plan is a very exciting.
      Has anybody got a plan of this Luas/public transport system

      Will really be fantastic for Limerick , imagine having a public transport system along the canal

      There is loads of potential for public transport routes in and out of the canal area!
      i say this plan could go ahead !!!!

      I hope this project goes ahead.

      Any news on the new UL school of Arcitecture???

    • #753227
      dave123
      Participant

      Development Partnership Ltd., Limerick Enterprise
      Limerick Enterprise Development
      Park, Childers Road,
      Roxborough, Limerick.
      The development will consist of the demolition of 7 existing detached and 2 semi-detached dwellings and ancillary structures including garages and boundary walls to the John Craew Park Link Road and Childers Road/Southern Ring Road . The construction of the following: (i) a new entrance (ii) new boundary walls and landscaping (iii) a 4-storey 161 bedroom hotel with basement consisting of 73 two bedroom and 2 one bedroom hotel suites and 13 bedrooms, conferencing facilities and meeting rooms, bar and gym on the ground floor with restaurant on the first floor and basement with 123 carparking spaces, swimming pool, changing facilities (iv) 6 retail units one of which is an off-licence at ground floor level and restaurant with take-away at first floor level (v) plant room, bin storage yard, 143 surface carparking spaces (vi) relocation of 14 carparking spaces and drop off area for the creche
      Fordmount Developments Ltd.
      PO Box 396

      The Granary
      Michael Street
      for the redevelopment of a site of 0.3287 hectares, approximately, indentified primarily as: the Savoy Cinema Complex, Henry Street/Bedford Row; Bedford House, Bedford Row; Nos 2-7 Bedford Row: and the premises running from the rear of No.122 O’Connell Street (parallel with the rear of Nos. 1-9 Bedford Row), Limerick. The development will consist of the demolition of all existing structures on site and the construction of a five to part – ten (including roof top plant) storey over basement building, providing a mixed use scheme comprising: 95 no. residential apartments (some terraced, some with balconies) (7910 sqm (50 no. one-bedroom apartments; 37 no. two bed apartments; and 8 no. three-bed apartments)); 14 no. retail units (5753sqm located from basement to second floor level); and a 100 bedroom hotel (7658sqm incorporating metting rooms (683 sqm over two levels), kitchen (with an upper first floor area), restaurant, bar, a hotel leisure area including a swimming pool and gym, offic Henry Street
      Bedford Row

      Lim

      Dineen Len
      6 Riverfront
      Howleys Quay
      Limerick
      Demolition of sheds and structures at 23 Henry St.; Demolition of 24 Henry St. and the sheds and extensions to the rear; Demolition of the sheds and structures to the rear of 76-78 O’Connell St.; Demolition of a boundary wall and two toilet and stair returns to the rear of 79-83 O’Connell St. Construction of a pedestrian access and ancillary maintenance works to the archway at Hartstonge St. Excavation and construction of a basement car park on the site, to include the widening of Savins Lane and the provision of a through road from Savins Lane to Hartstonge St. via the Archway, Hartstonge St., a Protected Structure. Construction of a single six storey building fronting 23/24 Henry St. with 44 apartments (2 one bedroom and 42 two bedroom), ground floor and basement retail and ground floor office use. Construction of a single six storey building to the rear of 76-83 O’Connell St., with 74 apartments (6 one bedroom & 66 two bedroom & 2 three bedroom). See Attached Schedule Rear of 76-83 OConnell St
      & 23-24 Henry Street
      Limerick

      04521 Nolan Frank
      25 Henry Street
      Limerick

      for the demolition of the existing buildings, out-buildings and structures at the above addresses, the construction of a basement car park including a retail storage area and the construction of a sixth storey building over to include four retail shops at ground level including all associated ancillary accommodation, first floor suite with 24 apartments over including all associated site works and site development works. This proposal is located in an architectural conservation area and no. 24, 25 and 26 Henry St. are Protected Structures

      il get some more images of some developments by the end of the week…
      how does some people have fantastic images on the threads , and i can only send shite small ones ?? :confused:

    • #753228
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Just a few updates on developments!..

      Demolition work started on the savoy complex last week,work is initially concentrated on the henry street side,a number of shop units and the old bedford row maternity hospital will be demolished very soon,the new development of a hotel and 14 shop units looks pretty exciting and will give the area a new lease of life, a facelift for the old central theatre across the street is due to start very shortly, the building is to be stripped and the old methodist chapel on the site is to be restored.This street is to be pedestrianised and work is due to start in the next few weeks, finally the city centre plan is gathering pace!. Meanwhile the two infill buildings on o connell street that have baffled people for years are no more, the 2 storey buildings that looked so out of proportion are gone and are being replaced with 2 four storey ovr basement georgian style buildings to fit the character of the area, allegedly the reason for the gap in the street was for the horse drawn coaches to access the rear of the buildings!,There are also rumours that a number of tenants on patrick street are in negotiations with a developer with a view to purchasing their premises, it is thought that a large retail group has major plans for the area!

    • #753229
      dave123
      Participant

      Its about time something big in the city centre kicked of on a big scale!

      the new hotel has started on the dock road to don’t what type of hotel though , but will be a big one , id love to see what looks likes

    • #753230
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Limerick Leader 23rd july 2005

      LIMERICK’S skyline has undergone a dramatic transformation with the construction of the towering 58 metre Riverpoint development in the city centre.

      The imposing edifice on Bishop’s Quay, set to become a new landmark for the city, forms a spectacular new entrance to Limerick for visitors.

      The high-rise 15 storey building, covered in hi-tech futuristic glass, has overtaken the Clarion as the highest building in the city.

      Reaction to the new €75 building has been mixed. Some see Riverpoint as an impressive signature tower for the city skyline, and one that fits in with Limerick’s desired image of a Riverside City. While others aren’t so sure about the design. Is the building simply too high, too flashy and a tad over-the-top for Limerick?

      Installing the glass facade, which interestingly reflects the ever-changing colours of the nearby river and sky above, was a major engineering project for Sisk, the appointed builders. In fact the challenge of fitting glass at such a height caused the works to fall three months behind schedule.

      The reinforced glass, which was very costly, was specially imported from Austria – a similar type was used on a television tower in Luxembourg.

      Extra strong foundations have also been installed at the base to protect it from the danger of flooding.

      Riverpoint, containing 13 floors of offices and 125 apartments, is scheduled to open this September. It will also incorporate a bar and restaurant facing the river, a cr

    • #753231
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Limerick Leader 23rd july 2005

      Red tape holds up suburbs takeover

      BECAUSE of red tape the Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche will not receive a proposal to enlarge the Limerick city boundary until mid Autumn – a year after the report was made public.

      The Department of the Environment confirmed this Thursday that he has yet to receive a submission and senior City Hall officials have acknowledged that it will be “September or October” before the proposal – affecting several suburbs – is sent to Dublin.

      Both Limerick and Clare County Councils’ have rejected the plan to quadruple the area governed from City Hall, enlarging the city’s boundary into their areas by 6,451 hectares.

      Last October, the report commissioned by then Mayor, Cllr Michael Hourigan, requesting the Government to enlarge the city was made public.

      However, despite the controversial report being well publicised and debated, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has not yet received it.

      City manager, Tom Mackey confirmed that the proposal would have to go before the City Council again following its rejection by the neighbouring authorities.

      The City Council are not due to meet again until September.

      “It will have to be brought before the council for their direction in September or October. It will then be sent directly to the Minister if the Council approves it,” reported Mr Mackey.

      If the bid is successful, areas such as Coonagh, Dooradoyle, Castletroy and Mungret in County Limerick and Parteen, Meelick and Clonlara in Clare would be administered by the City Council. Officials argue an extension is long overdue, the last one being granted in 1950.

      The proposal document for the extension runs to over 155 pages including appendices.

      Meanwhile two Limerick Government colleagues have differed over the future of Limerick’s local authorities.

      Junior Health Minister Tim O’Malley has suggested that Limerick City and County Councils’ should be amalgamated into a “single super-authority to govern and promote both city and county”.

      Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea believes this idea “would not work”.

      “I don’t think any one body would be able to manage this. I would be in favour of the present situation,” said Minister O’Dea.

      Asked would he favour a boundary extension for the city, the Defence Minister also said he had “representations on both sides.”

      “There are arguments for and against it and it is a decision for Minister Roche to make. He has not given me any indication on how it will go,” remarked Minister O’Dea.

    • #753232
      Rhino
      Participant

      Just to clarify that the two single storey buildings on O’Connell Street were supposed to be retained as part of the overall infill with a contemporary twist to the upper floors. However – they were not able to be retained once the construction began on site…

    • #753233
      jimg
      Participant

      Where on the street were these two single story buildings? What were they used for?

    • #753234
      Rhino
      Participant

      They were located on the left hand side of O’Connell Street (if driving) just before the traffic lights at Mallow Street. One was a small newsagents.

    • #753235
      dave123
      Participant
    • #753236
      dave123
      Participant

      [align=center:1m6pn4k8]center>
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:1m6pn4k8][/align]

      As far as i’m awar the building pic above is adjacent to the planning application below,

      Alterations to approved development (planning permissions P02/300 & P03/467) consisting of change of use of 17 no. apartments on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors and Ground Floor Retail Unit amounting to 1,322 sq.m to a Consultants Clinic associated with Barringtons Hospital, addition of en-suite shower room to apartment no.s 12, 19 & 24 on 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors respectively (5.2 sq.m each), addition of chimneys to North wing of building, enlargement of first floor cafe by 6.7 sq.m, addition of 5.7 sq.m to penthouse apartment no. 25 on 5th floor, and minor alterations to building footprint, elevations to Mary Street and Little Fish Lane resulting from compliance with condition 14 of planning permission P02/300 in regard to archaeology. Mary St., Sir Harrys Mall
      Northern Inner Relief Rd.
      between Fish L

    • #753237
      dave123
      Participant

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Whats the verdict on this building??
      Ithink it fits in well with the old and new
      just adjacent to thomond bridge,

    • #753238
      ash1
      Participant

      Development – a few hometruths – and not an attempt at ‘limerick bashing’ – i’m sure it’s typical of lack of social orientated building and planning in ireland.

      A cautionary tale – the splurge of apartment buildings in Limerick city centre has led to a fall in rental income and a difficulty in actually tenanting properties. So many of the buildings which were originally intended as ‘luxury ‘ apartments have become in effect modern ‘slums’ populated by transient populations of migrant workers, students and those in receipt of rent allowances. Absentee landlords quick to cash in on a section -50 buck have abandoned their apts to the management agents and as a result these ‘new’ buildings are becoming decrepid and unkempt, abandoned
      A quick stroll around steamboat quay or mount kenneth will confirm same. This contributes to the ‘corridor of poverty’ which runs right through the city centre.Suburbs now bulge with wealthy thirtysomethings and their lodgers, fearful to live in the city in case their 05 Landrovers will get scratched by the hoody wearing wolverines who roam at 1am, looking for a wingmirror to kick off.

      Residential displacement continues as whole streets of houses once populated by families then purchased for student rental are coming onsale (Wolfe Tone Street / St Josephs Street) – while the shops once supported by settled residential communities are boarded up and abandoned (Parnell St).

      those residences that are not for sale are being filled with the antisocial detrius of housing estates, given their marching orders by the city council and then a tenancy by the health board – god help us!

      It’s not enough to create buildings which are easy on the eye – cities need to be a place where people want to live and bring up their families – why not abandon stamp duty for owner occupiers on city dwellings designated for regeneration and get people back into the city 7 days a week. not just weekends? it is the drip drip spend which keeps the corner shop and city centre pub open, locals who fill the coffers – and the church pews

      The city councillors need to get the lead out, as the rot has well and truly set in. We need some concrete (oh the irony) initiatives to get people living in the city again – not some pathetic ‘spring fest’ or similar damp squib desperate efforts by the co-ordination office. and for god sake we should build on what we have, and not rip it down and replace it with another production line / bastard bauhaus/cladded shiny nightmare.

      a hike in interest rates or a fall in numbers of house purchases – one notch tightened in the consumer belts and all of these retail outlets will be fighting for the same buck or packing up and heading to poland.

      Ash1 – city resident

      ps the barrington street property mentioned in an earlier thread still does not have a single tenant , 6 months after delivery. there are huge swathes of office space in the city centre for sales or lease and the city council continues to strangle businesses. it’s all a bit ’emperor’s new clothes’

    • #753239
      Anonymous
      Participant

      So whats the solution?

    • #753240
      backspace
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      [align=center:oplx7y87]center>
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:oplx7y87][/align]

      As far as i’m awar the building pic above is adjacent to the planning application below,

      Alterations to approved development (planning permissions P02/300 & P03/467) consisting of change of use of 17 no. apartments on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors and Ground Floor Retail Unit amounting to 1,322 sq.m to a Consultants Clinic associated with Barringtons Hospital, addition of en-suite shower room to apartment no.s 12, 19 & 24 on 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors respectively (5.2 sq.m each), addition of chimneys to North wing of building, enlargement of first floor cafe by 6.7 sq.m, addition of 5.7 sq.m to penthouse apartment no. 25 on 5th floor, and minor alterations to building footprint, elevations to Mary Street and Little Fish Lane resulting from compliance with condition 14 of planning permission P02/300 in regard to archaeology. Mary St., Sir Harrys Mall
      Northern Inner Relief Rd.
      between Fish L

      The building that PP refers to is actually under construction the far side of Baals bridge at the moment. But I think that the one in the photo is also going to be part of Barringtons at some stage

    • #753241
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Fairly depressing description there, Ash1, but sadly I have to agree with you. Tim O’Malley wrote an interesting article in “Business Limerick” magazine last month ( will try and get it online soon) expressing similar views, which was good to see, as he’s probably in a better position than most to take action on the issues. As for addressing the problems/ opportunities facing Limerick at the moment, where do you begin? – Has anyone read “The Death and Life of Great American Cities?” It’s a fantastic book, more or less provides step by step instructions on how to create a sustainable city centre, however I’ll have to leave it at that for now – head is racing with too many thoughts on this thread so will get back to you when i manage to have a few more coherent thoughts on the subject.

    • #753242
      gregos
      Participant

      Hi Ash1. Well said.

      The shape of Limerick has been determined not by planners, not by architects, not by engineers and not by elected representatives. The current shape of Limerick has been, and continues to be, dictated by social workers. Good streets and solid neighbourhoods all over the city are being undermined by placing delinquent families in their midst without assessing the impact this policy has on the people who work and live there. This is because those who implement the policy are health-board administrators who have no ability to carry out such an assessment and have no qualificatioons. This is where power rests, and this is why people are leaving for the suburbs. Nothing will change until some neighbourhood group take a constitutional action to stop it. I personally know two people who cannot sell their homes because of the kind of people who have been placed next door to them, and at the same time can no longer afford to stay because of the threat to their children. This is a disgrace.

    • #753243
      ash1
      Participant

      thanks for your posts – i sometimes think lunatics have taken over the asylum down here.
      the problem with community action is that you need the community, and they have become so fragmented. And who do you take to task? within a couple of hundred yards of my parents home (off gracious georgian o’connell ave) there is a ‘wet hostel’, a resettlement unit for delinquent teenage travellers, a halfway house for young offenders (original planning permission granted for a ‘child development clinic’ ) and a further adult offenders hostel – one of whose occupants was recently sentenced for the murder of a barman in ’04. all concentrated in the space of 15 or so houses.

      All of these are operated by many different ‘not for profit’ organistations – who are then able to pick up properties cheap as chips as neighbouring residents leave in droves. None of these projects have live in wardens. The ‘rent allowance’ payments alone have allowed one ‘saintly’ charity to build up an impressive multimillion property portfolio in dooradoyle and raheen. Urban myth or truth but there are reports that they have even gone door to door in some estates asking if their owners are interested in selling! you can imagine the blind panic that sets in.

      It’s this kind of systematic undermining of social networks which is responsible for the ghetto which is springing behind the facade of all this new building. High density apartment blocks with a high churn of occupants with no emotional ties or financial investment to an area do not communities make. There is a real danger of creating new ‘no go’ areas in the city centre, where only the foolish or insane will choose to live from choice, and others only from necessity.

      i am begining to think that ‘impact statements’ should be part of the planning process – i.e. what benefits will this development bring to the area – or that new build permission will only be granted for owner occupiers ,with a codicil that they cannot sell for a stated period of time – or ‘peppercorn’ type mixed developments of single / family housing – to create stability.

      otherwise it is a depressing dangerous morass of undesirables and the few hardcore elderly who are hanging on by their fingertips. it’s is mess.

    • #753244
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Sounds like a fairly scary scenario. As a student exiled to Dublin for the last few years – have to say I didnt realise that the negative side-effects of poor planning in the city centre would come about so fast, although it’s easy to see how. The fact is, that the health board etc. has to apply to the city council for planning permission for any of these facilities, be they new buildings or renovations etc. Unfortunately wet hostels etc are only one symptom of a much broader problem that exists in Limerick and elsewhere -that of ghettos. The whole city has, since Georgian times become compartmentalised into vast zones of single use – zones for students, industry, shopping, poor people, rich people, hospitals etc, all facilitated by the policies or lack of them of our government and its agents in city hall. This sort of planning policy flies in the face of all that is required to bring about the conditions for a sustainable city environment – diversity.

      However on the up side, just as it only takes a few people to destroy a neighbourhood, so too a small number of people can start the process of reviving depressed areas. Had the oppoprtuntiy of living in Brooklyn a few years ago – ended up in what can only be described as a bit of a dodgy neighbourhood – our house was a recently converted mafia social club, nuclear waste was being stored less than a mile away and was offered drugs six times on the two block walk home from the subway station, the day i moved in. In the two years I stayed there – the transformation was staggering. Seems some civic minded locals decided to form a residents committee to pressure the borough council, the police, schools board,developers etc into providing better services and facilities in the area. Local parks were improved, the streets kept clean, zero tolerane policing enforced and as far as i know property taxes and rates were changed so that ,rather than all the users in one area paying the same rate – each property was assesed on its own merits so that a diverse gruop of people and businesses could afford to exist in the same area. The situation is now such, that i’d highly reccommend any visitor to New York to hop on the L train and take a trip to Williamsburg.

      As for how that situation relates to Limerick – look at the People’s park since the playground was installed a couple of years ago, there seems to always be people around it, and i certainly don’t perceive it as the no go area it once was. On a broader level, I think there are plenty of people who share the the same concerns as expreesed on this forum. If enough people can organise themselves and make their concerns known to politicians,( who will be relying on your vote to hold onto their well paid jobs in a year or two) as well as presenting their own ideas and solutions to the problems facing us – it wouldnt take long for a more desirable vision of Limerick to emerge. Will have to end it for now – but i’m sure ther’ll be plenty more to follow.

    • #753245
      gregos
      Participant

      I would agree with you about most of what you said, but I have to point out that the health board and the various charities don’t need permission from anybody to place individual families in houses. A single criminal family can utterly destroy a neighbourhood, and that is what these bodies are doing right now: destroying established communities. The health boards have never held themselves accountable, and the charities even less so. Nothing will change without their being forced to take account of the consequences.

      In the new orthodoxy, you can’t criticise anyone without being shouted down. Nobody is responsible for their own behaviour, or that of their children. If your new neighbour brings a string of horses to graze the green areas of your neighbourhood, that’s his right. He has a tradition and a culture that you must respect. If his kids kick the ball into your garden to see if your back door is locked, you mustn’t say so, because that would be discrimination. The impact on you is not relevant, because he is disadvantaged and you are not. You and your spouse might work double shifts to pay the mortgage, and limit your family size so that you can educate them well. Another guy might not be able to find suitable work in this economy of full employment, might have twelve kids he can’t feed and won’t control. Who’s going to get the breaks – you or him? I’ll give you one guess.

    • #753246
      dave123
      Participant

      Well, 😮
      its good to see both sides of the good and bad exent of developments in Limerick, which is still progress. All though lets hope something can be done to improve and change it, As Limerick has its fair share of problems like any city.
      On the plus side there, has been some very new and bold architectural developments in the city. The good thing is ,people are aware of the downsides as stated in the discussions above, which to give a real perspective on what is actually happening in the city.
      But we need to keep a positive outlook too.

      I still think , despite the bashing , Limerickl city has become a more vibrant and safer city to live in , In my view.
      I also think it has become a confident city , , like the Riverpoint, University of Limerick and European Riverside City initaitive etc..

      anyway have some pics…
      just to show that there are quite a few developments are by arcitects eg.http://www.eml.ie/main/2_commercial/

      [align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    • #753247
      dave123
      Participant

      [align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    • #753248
      dave123
      Participant

      limerick docks plans,

      [align=center:re4n73h8]Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:re4n73h8]

    • #753249
      dave123
      Participant

      [align=center:3r0nlkb8]Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:3r0nlkb8]

      ][align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    • #753250
      dave123
      Participant

      those pics are proposals for the docks

    • #753251
      dave123
      Participant

      a pic of Mary immucalute College , a few more coming….

    • #753252
      dave123
      Participant

      [align=center:ah1e819t]Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:ah1e819t]

    • #753253
      dave123
      Participant

      Client: Steamboat Developments Ltd
      Site Area: 0.74 hectare / 1.83 acres
      No. of Units: 57 Apartments
      37 Town Houses
      11 Commercial Units
      Floor Area: Apartments –
      Town Houses –
      Commercial – 1,524 sq.m.
      3,794 sq.m.
      1,524 sq.m.
      Parking Area: 6,875 sq.m.
      275 Car Parking Spaces
      Density: 94 units on 1.83acres =
      c 51 units per acre
      Plot Ratio: c 12,200 sq.m. / 7,400 = 1.6
      Contract Value: €8.2 million (approx)
      Completed: 1997

      info on steamboat quay.

      Steamboat Quay is a mixed development of commercial and residential units located on the central south quay of Limerick, overlooking the River Shannon. It was the first element of an overall composition for the site, which, now complete, includes a 17 storey hotel tower with restaurant pavillion.

      The composition for the river elevation relates to the quayside and River Shannon. A clear distinction is made between the glazed commercial ground

      som pics on riverside,shannon street and facing onto shannon.

      [align=center:1rprxm0w]Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:1rprxm0w]

    • #753254
      dave123
      Participant

      well thats all for now,

      I’ll try get some pictures on Lord Eward street Apartents, despite the contervertial plans for it near the people’s park , it has turned out to be a fine new building.

    • #753255
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Who’s responsible for the Docks masterplan?

    • #753256
      dave123
      Participant

      i think Murrayolaoire architects,
      there are loads of architects wanting to come up with winning design, most likely

    • #753257
      dave123
      Participant

      The bedford row redevelopment is well underway now.
      Also Bedford row street has been pedrestrianised and the street is having a festival over the weekend!

      There has been a lot of talk recently to punches cross development ??
      or is there a number of buildings going up there ??
      i heard a hotel and retail warehousing?

      the new Ul bridge across the shannon.

      [align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com
      <br

      also any news on the Ul school of arcitectre??

    • #753258
      ShaneP
      Participant

      It’s them alright. Just found it on their website. There’s a few other images,( still trying to figure out how to insert them on this site) not that that they really explain anything – it’s as vague and waffly as the accompanying shpiel. It’s a huge area – wonder what it all means. Any other entries been published? I knew the city council had commisioned a masterplan but never heard anything about it being a competition. As for the new block beside the park – past it last weekend, can’t believe that’s the finished product, you’d think with all the controversy surrounding the site, they’d have made a bit of an effort. The timber cladding, I can only presumed glued on, looks like it’s seen better days, although maybe it’ll fall off soon to reveal something much more pleasing, sort of like a a Carl Scarpa design on speed. It’s a real wasted opportunity there, although I don’t think it was wrong to build on a bit of the park. It would probably be best to sell off the big wedge shaped piece of land at the Wolfe Tone St. side along with the other bit of left over space near the station and complete the Georgian Square plan that was originally intended by Mr. Pery and others in the 1830’s.

    • #753259
      dave123
      Participant

      Yeah there is a lot of plans and images of new developments on Limerick on that site.
      thats interesting wherabouts is wolfe tone street , is does bring me awareness to notice that the georgian Perry layout ,literally stops near the People’s park and Colbert station,

      Ok see if i can help you,

      You need a host to send images onto this site as follows
      http://www.photobucket.com
      save and copy picture to the site from your computer or website as desired
      then click and retrieve image from photobucket to by going to URL on bottom right on the site (generate IMG code) and then copy the attachment and paste to the thread below on this site (in the go advanced button)
      press preview to be sure its on the screen.
      here is an example…. Rheobogue Student Apartements and the Clarion hotel

      [align=center:1xxk9bpm]Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      [align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:1xxk9bpm]
      This is very small oh well 😀 Idon’t always get it right…

      [align=center]
      Image hosted by Photobucket.com

      or you can just post attachements s from your saved images on your computer or elsewhere go to the advanced button below reply , in the advanced menu , you will see – ,manage attachements copy and then press upload and will come up right away.

    • #753260
      dave123
      Participant

      The city of Limerick and its immediate environs are at a critical stage in their economic development, according to Mr. Tim O’Malley, T.D., and Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children. In a
      meeting with Business Limerick last week, Mr.O’Malley expressed his fears that downright bad management and a poor planning strategy could lead to the degeneration of the physical and cultural environment of the

      From the business Limerick magazine.

      city and represent a waste of the opportunities supplied by the current favourable economic climate.

      This, according to Mr. O’Malley is a worstcase scenario, and he intends not to let it happen by making strong proposals at local and national level in order to restore the city to the right path. The Dooradoyle-based PD’s proposals include the amalgamation of the city and county councils to provide a single
      super-authority to govern and promote both city and county; the halting of the current one-off, ad hoc developments in the city and its environs in favour of a clear coherent plan designed to enhance the status of
      Limerick City as the Mid-West’s cultural and economic hub; the rapid development of a rail link between Limerick and Shannon and the creation of the graduate medical school at the University of Limerick. Tim O’Malley identifies these issues as the ‘breakthrough’ points that would move Limerick’s profile to the centre of the national stage. One recent development – of which everyone in the Limerick business community is now aware – is Shannon International Airport’s recent of Ryanair hub status.

      This has, of course, been made possible by the break up of Aer Rianta into three separate authorities representing the three major international airports – Dublin, Cork and Shannon -and allowing each to compete individually for business with the carriers. It is quickly pointed out by O’Malley that this policy had its origins in a policy proposal made by his cousin, and PD founder, Des O’Malley, eight or nine years ago in Limerick’s Glentworth Hotel. ‘The figures speak from themselves: overall passenger growth for the first five months
      of this year has been 10 per cent for the three airports combined, but the breakdown of the figures is even more interesting from a local perspective – Dublin is up by 6.9 per cent, Cork by 14.3 per cent but Shannon has risen by 30%! The figure for May alone, when many of the new Ryanair routes became operational, is 42 per cent.‘ The minister argues, however, against the local business community and others seeing this as an opportunity for back slapping or resting on laurels. ‘On the contrary, this huge increase in traffic represents a challenge and magnificent commercial opportunity for the region. The business community must be alive to the possibilities offered by the gain in the traffic to the region and I’m confident in the ability of Limerick and Shannon commercial concerns to grasp the opportunity. My worries would lie in other direction.’


      This is a reference to O’Malley’s doubts about the ability of Limerick City Council to support their local economy by ‘raising their game’ in terms of planning and strategy. ‘I don’t doubt the ability of local businesses to accept the challenge that the massive throughput at Shannon represents, but they have to be supported in this by proper planning at council level, and it is my opinion that we may require massive restructuring in the management of the city and county.’ O’Malley, himself, was a businessman for thirty years before entering politics full time and he conveys the impression that he knows what he’s talking about. ‘ I will always support Limerick business- there are too many local politicians who just see our commercial sector as men and women to be squeezed at every opportunity.’ In one way, the always-welcome appearance of more tourists and business travellers to the region provides a very good chance of seeing ourselves – and our services – as others see perceive them. O’Malley expressed himself happy with the level of tourists coming to Shannon airport and enjoying local attractions like Clare’s west coast, the Burren and the abundant golfing and angling opportunities in the area. When it comes, however, to the city, he believes that there is ‘absolutely massive’ room for improvement

      ‘There should be a more coherent and creative strategy
      for the marketing of the city’s attractions and that must involve the coming together of all the stakeholders. For example, the area from King John’s Castle running down past St. Mary’s Cathedral towards the Courthouse to the Hunt Museum must be developed as a single location for tourists coming to the city. These are attractions of significant historical interest and a chance to walk around them with a famous river so close should be a very pleasant experience. But that possibility is not, in my own opinion, being marketed very clearly and there is a great deal of very practical and ‘hands-on’ work to be done towards cleaning up the area and making attractive and accessible the facilities’. In this regard, he complimented the Civic Trust for their restoration and maintenance of the Bishop’s alace and other buildings of historical interest and explicitly draws what he claims is a stark contrast between their efforts and the City Council, who, he feels, should be playing a much bigger
      role. ‘It is an absolute shame that the stop for tourist buses on the road adjacent to one of the country’s best example of a medieval castle is located beside a municipally owned derelict site Effectively, the first thing that tourists on a visit to the area see is a pile of rubble and weeds.

      That site and other derelict buildings in the Nicholas Street area must be addressed. In addition, the traffic flow in the area needs to be changed. The new traffic arrangements are extremely poor.’ One gets the impression from O’Malley that he feels that these flaws are only indicative of a wider malaise in the city management. Another case in point, alluded to by the Minister for State, is the recent debacle involving the Main Drainage Scheme, with some observers claiming that the settlement of the case could involve the council
      paying up to €50 m in damages to Uniform Construction. In the context of a possible appeal to the High Court, O’Malley was reluctant to comment on the political implications of such a high settlement against the City Council.

      He did, however, point out the city coffers’ precarious position irrespective of Uniform payout, and mused that this could lead to a bad situation getting even worse. ‘The problems would be compounded by a cash-strapped authority simply continuing to sell sites to developers willy-nilly, while long term planning and the establishment of a coherent template for the future development
      of the city are ignored. The recent development on a section of the People’s Park serves as an example of what I would like to see avoided. Indeed, it serves as a reminder that the last time anyone had a
      coherent vision of how Limerick might operate as a civic and commercial centre was in the time of the man on the park’s column. What would Mr. Pery think now, one wonders? This is something that many Limerick residents and much of the city’s business community have been worried about for some time.

      There is a short term nature to much of the development in the city that sees developers making gains and investors availing of section 23 and other tax breaks, and then moving on without regard for the future. ‘ That’s a tactic I am completely out of sympathy with – one need only look at the Savoy building being torn down again after only fifteen years or so. The area around Steamboat Quay and Mount Kennet has seen development without any regard to the provision of facilities for the residents or their children. Recent claims in the Limerick Post and elsewhere that we may be witnessing the development of our first 21st century inner city ghetto are not entirely without foundation.’ Asked to elaborate, O’Malley lays the blame squarely on bad city management, even if he does champion some of the new developments, such as the new flagship evelopment, ‘Riverpoint’, standing at the Shannon Bridge entrance to the city.
      What solutions, then, does he advocate for the reversal of current negative planning trends? The biggest problem, according to O’Malley, is that the councils – City and County – do not work well together, and the best solution would be to amalgamate them to form a single authority governing both city and county. ‘As long as the two administrative districts are competing for business, current trends will continue. Recent development of retail and other facilities on the city’s periphery are threatening to suffocate the city centre.

      Boundary extensions would only tinker with the problem, what is needed is a complete strategic re-think.’ What plans should this new authority pursue to put the local region back on track? ‘The priority must be the regeneration of the city centre with increased pedestrianisation and vastly improved cultural, social and shopping facilities in the city centre. A vital facet of this new direction will be a focus on
      the appearance of the city – the city centre looks tired and shabby. In that regard, plans to redevelop the docklands as a business area should be abandoned.

      The docklands should be developed as a residential and recreational area with proper leisure facilities, walks and cycle lanes and so forth. Business and retail development should be concentrated instead in the city centre’, said Mr O’Malley.In addition to this the Minister for State said that the council should discontinue the practice of selling off sites within the city centre for short-term financial gain. In this regard, he claimed that he would ppose any attempt to sell off the Arthur’s Quay Park site for development.
      This, the minister of state claims, should remain as a park in the city’s hands. Business Limerick agrees, but we would be of the opinion that such a prime site beside the tourist office should undergo a massive overhaul and that should proceed n tandem with the reopening and upgrading of the retail units behind Roches Stores. Currently, O’Malley is giving a great deal of his attention to the proposed railway link from Limerick to Shannon and the opening of a graduate medical school on a new site at the UL campus. ‘Feasibility studies are currently bei ng carried out on the railway and I intend to use my position to push for both of these initiatives for Limerick. I’ll need support and I’ll be looking for Limerick’s business community to row in behind me. We can’t afford to adapt a wait and see approach – the future of the city is clearly at stake.’

    • #753261
      ShaneP
      Participant

      This is another image of the docks masterplan.

    • #753262
      ShaneP
      Participant

      It worked, thanks for your help dave123.

    • #753263
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Cant really make up my mind about the edward street apartments,they do look a bit cheap and tacky to be honest, you really would have thought that given its sensitive location beside the people’s park that a more appropriate and tasteful design could have found!, unfortunately this just looks like any other apartment block that has sprang up in the city over the last 10 years or so and as a few posters have alluded to: these kind of developments arent always the best option, i think the city council are too taken with trying to bring people back living in the city centre especially after the disasterous failure of the livivg over the shop scheme, i must say im not a fan of this timber cladding either!. I see the pedestrianisation works on bedford row are to get underway on tuesday morning, i think they are sheduled to take around 10 months to complete, it involves the construction of a high quality aestethically pleasing paved surface, the installation of street furniture and new lighting, mature trees are to be planted and all cables and services are to be placed underground, they will also be a number of information kiosks.Its not clear how the development works on the savoy site will impact on the project however it will surely cause some delay, work is also due to start on the old central theatre shortly!

      Limerick race company ltd has applied to raise the ground level on a portion of the old racecourse on the dock road/south circular rd in preparation for the large development that is planned for the site,this includes a large shopping complex,ofices park, industrial units, 1,000 residential units and a large number of sporting facilities and general public amenities. An application has also been submitted with regard to the hotel development at punches cross which includes a leisure centre and bar & restaurant,its not clear yet if the original public house is being retained as part of the development. A new building is also planned to replace the henry cecil that collapsed during the demolition of the carlton cinema,this was a real pity, im amazed no investigation was carried out or anybody brought to book over it, lets hope they replace it with something tasteful!..

      BTW does anyone have any images of the royal george development?.

    • #753264
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks Turborg for the information, that sounds like an exciting development at the racecourse! hope to get more info on that soon!

      There was a festival on at Bedford row of the weekend to celebrate the pedstrianisation.
      For once i can see a lot of positive changes to the city centre going to happen and bring revitialisation as soon as the innercity street paving and trees etc are in.!
      This is a major step forward to the city,
      about time….

      I’ll try get info on that too (Royal George)

    • #753265
      dave123
      Participant

      I just came accross this, its a bit outdated though, i was surprised about the rumour of Mark and spencers might be moving in there ,as they have been wanting to have a store in Limerick for a long time , but no sign of them coming?

      By Neil Callanan

      Developer Aidan Brooks has paid about €13 million for the Royal George Hotel on O’Connell Street in Limerick.

      The hotel, which was founded in 1820, is expected to be demolished soon to make way for a department store with a new hotel on the upper floors.

      Despite speculation that Marks & Spencer has signed adeal toopen at the new store, The Sunday Business Post understands that no deal has yet been signed and that a number of retailers including Zara and Debenhams have shown an interest in the scheme.

      The three-star hotel has 52 en suite bedrooms and Brooks is understood to have bought the building in an offmarket deal.

      The 33-year-old local has already started a €50 million development at the former Carlton Cinema site at the rear of the hotel.

      The 13,935 square metre mixed use scheme will house the Limerick offices of Bank of Scotland upon its comple

      tion later this year and will also include nine retail units and about 70 apartments.

      The development on the Royal George site is expected to integrate with the rest of the site, giving the development frontage to O’Connell Street, Cecil Street, Shannon Street and Henry Street. Hamilton Osborne King is the letting agent for both developments.

    • #753266
      Tuborg
      Participant

      A few weeks ago i mentioned that a large shopping complex was being planned for the city centre, a number of retailers on patrick street (opposite aurthurs quay) had closed their doors in recent weeks and more are to follow in the coming days and weeks!. Well the plans are to be made public very soon, the mayor of limerick speaking on local radio said he would be in a position to make an annoucement in the very near future, and according to the local press a high profile meeting between the city council and a belfast development company was due to take place today (thurs 4th aug). It seems the development is even larger than first thought and encompasses a large part of the city centre including patrick street, rutland st, michael street,ellen st,cornmarket row and bank place, the developers have already bought up large tracts of land and the preplanning work has been finalised, there is rumours that shannon developments offices in the granary are to be bought up, but i find this hard to believe as the granary is a protected structure and millions was spent refurbishing it in the 80s. This plan (providing it gets approval) would be a huge boost for the city centre, not only would a scheme of this magnitude have a huge effect on the commercial rates(currently the highest in the country), it would also fit in nicely to the planned pedestrianisation and upgrade of the city centre, especially o connell street, most importantly it would be a fly in the ointment of all the existing retail parks & shopping complexes in the suburbs and those that are under construction or planned.The complex itself is the biggest ever planned for limerick and will easily be the biggest in munster, i suppose what is refreshing about this one is that it is not planned for some large field in the suburbs, it is right in the centre of the city and will breathe new life back into the heart of the city, an area that has been neglected for far too long, lets hope the plans for o connell st will restore it to its former glory!, if only we could put right the architectural mistakes of the 60s & 70s!.

      The area bounded by this development has seen a large amount of steady development since the early 90s with a large number of new pubs, nightclubs and shop units opening up, now it seems the area is about to change beyond recognition!.. 🙂

    • #753267
      dave123
      Participant

      wow thats great news for the city centre

    • #753268
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Limerick Post 6th August 2005

      Huge development planned

      A HIGH profile meeting between a Belfast development company and management of Limerick City Council took place in City Hall on Thursday, to pave the way for what will be the largest commercial and retail development in Limerick to-date.

      Planning officials in City Hall would not comment to the Limerick Post on Thursday’s pre-planning meeting and stressed that as no formal planning application has yet been submitted, they can not at this particular time supply details of the development that is expected to incorporate Ellen Street, Michael Street, Bank Place, Rutland Street and Patrick Street.

      Speaking to the Limerick Post however, Defence Minister, Willie O’Dea said that what is planned is “a huge retail complex that will be the biggest in Munster and will, when completed, employ over 1,000 people”.

      “The development company has bought up a rake of property already including Shannon Development’s accommodation in the Granary. It will bring a whole new impetus to the city centre and will dovetail very well with the planned restoration of O’Connell Street. This development which is as inevitable as next Christmas has huge potential for the city,” he said.

      While a number of traders who will be potentially affected by the development declined to comment “at this stage”, several have already closed their premises with the closure of others pending soon.

      Also reluctant to comment was leading city auctioneer, Pat Kearney, who is believed to be involved in the transaction.

      “I can’t discuss this at this time. A lot will depend on what the Council will countenance,” was all he was prepared to say.

      Admitting that he is “not au fait” with details of the development, Mayor Diarmuid Scully said that in tandem with the proposed major docklands project and the restoration of O’Connell Street, Bedford Row, William Street and Thomas Street, the city centre would become a powerful magnet for business.

      “People will come into the city for high level , high quality goods – they can go to the suburban shopping centres for white goods etc but we must keep the commercial rate down and get the parking issue sorted out, but certainly this complete development hinging around Ellen Street, Rutland Street etc is wonderfully positive for the city,” he said.

      A spokesperson for the planning department said that when the preplanning process is completed, a planning application will be submitted to City Council, followed by a presentation of the proposed development to the elected members.

    • #753269
      jimg
      Participant

      The description of the development frightens me; it sounds like the development would involve a massive amount of demolition of historic building stock. The Georgian terrace on Rutland Street is one of my favourites in the city and is perfect across from the Hunt Museum. Even Ellen Street and Patrick Street have some interesting buildings which would be demolished, from the sounds of it. Will we be looking wistfully at old photos like this, , in 20 years time wondering how people could have been so stupid to demolish historic buildings?

      The city centre needs retail development but replacing two or three entire city blocks with a massive shopping centre doesn’t seem like a great idea to me. The experience of Arthurs Quay and the Dunnes shopping centre on Liddy Street proves that it’s a very bad idea to trust a single private company with the upkeep and development of entire city blocks in Limerick. The only difference is that it looks like this development would be two or three times the size of Arthurs Quay and Dunnes combined. If, after 10 or 20 years, it ends up anything like Arthurs Quay or Dunnes, it will destroy that end of the city which is currently developing well in my opinion if slowly. I don’t see any way of preventing neglect like this from happening; this model of development is more suited to warehouse retail parks or out-of-town centres in my opinion.

      Of course this development will be championed as the project which will save the city centre just as Arthurs Quay was so any objections in terms of conservation of historic buildings or questioning the sense in a planning policy which would allow a single company to control two or three city centre blocks will be seen as anti-development. The problem is that it is far easier for the council to rubber stamp the development and claim credit for doing something for the city centre than it would be to develop sustainable development plan for the city and spending money on improving the city centre environment for shoppers and residents. Even outside of retail, as was discussed earlier in this thread, it is already becoming apparant that just allowing developers to build as many apartments as possible in or around the centre doesn’t represent good planning or development policy. It looks good for a couple of years and the cranes make it look like the city is developing but the flaws become apparent within years.

    • #753270
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Sounds like its a bit too early to dismiss it completely just yet. I think most people would agree that large single use speculative developments can and do usually impact negatively on their surroundings.

      However there are at least 10 listed buildings in those few blocks and the development plan maps show that the area in question is of archaelogical significance. I would imagine that would prevent the wholesale demolition of the entire area. (even if all the other relevant issues are overlooked) The granary is a great building, one of those ones that made me want to do study architecture, and the Ormstons building on the corner of Ellen St. is another gem among others. I think Arthur’s Quay and the Dunnes Stores on Sarsfield St certainly set a bad precedent, but on balance, the new Dunnes Stores on Henry St. and the apartments facing the river constitute one the few decent developments in the city in recent years.

      The area around Patrrick St has great potential especially, the Cahill May Roberts building and the shed looking structures at the corner of Michael St. There’s a real opportunity to create successful public space in the area and there’s a need for shopping to be part of it. The junction of Rutland St/ Charlotte Quay is the natural centre of the city – where English Town, Irish Town and Newtown Perry meet along with the Shannon and Abbey Rivers. There’s a great mix of buildings and uses in the area, the city hall, St. Marys cathedral, Hunt Museum, Potato Market, the Art College, The Granary as well as plenty of bars, restaurants and offices and the marina too. At present though, the area seems a bit overlooked by most people visiting the city centre, the focal point being at O’Connell St./ William St. – not exactly the most inspiring image to greet anyone, be they native or visitor. On the other hand, wouldn’t be great to sail down from Kilaloe passing by the wilderness along the Shannon and Park canal to be suddenly in the middle of a busy city centre, I can just see the 2010 Limerick all Ireland hurling champions pulling up in their boat to be greeted by cheering thousands along the river, confetti streaming from the rooftops, fire works over the Shannon and all the rest of it.

      I guess what i’m getting at is that; for any public space to function succesfully, there needs to be a sufficient concentration of people and activities in the area to support it, among other factors .That is why Arthur’s Quay Park does not work at present and why new shops (especially a large department store) in the area around the Granary could be good for the area and the city as a whole. A new development perhaps incorpoating a hotel and apartments ( they aren’t all bad) , senstive to its context could be a very exciting project a the end of the day.

      Hopefully we won’t be greeted some day with Willie O’dea rambling on to some property page editor about Dundrum style atriums (ugh) and 20000 car parking spaces etc. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

    • #753271
      dave123
      Participant

      [align=center:3pbo2by3]Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:3pbo2by3]

      Jimg , i just copied ur attachement and i couldn’t wait to make it more known!
      its a real awesome building, compared to now 😡

    • #753272
      dave123
      Participant

      I thought the city council were dealing and negoitating with the Roches Liddy st units and the Dunnes stores site on Sarsfields street,

      These sites are so fecking valuable and prominent retail areas of the city, I cannot understand why there left in such terrible state 😡

      on a positive note there has been at least 3 buildings on Williams street sold and a number under offer so hopefully these buildings will be refurbished and invested to some standard as there are many fantastic buildings down that street that are in real tatters , if I must say.

      these are just a few buildings on the street .

    • #753273
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Found this image, courtesy of the good people at Newenham Mulligan – cant actually make out what part of Roches Stores it relates to, seeing as there’s a truck emerging from the corner entrance, must be a the rear of the building. Don’t know that the design is of any great architectural merit, but it would certainly improve the curent state of the place. I think the proposal has been put on the long finger, but with Brown Thomas getting their act together and a number of other decent clothes shops after opening in town recently, maybe that will be enough to give Roches a nudge in the right direction.

    • #753274
      ShaneP
      Participant

      I think the new Roches facade ( from the 1940’s ) is probably an improvement on what went before – half arsed spanish looking classical motif is just not very Limerick, or maybe it is! Real shame what happened to the old Cannocks shop – think the appearance of the clock changed a few times over the course of its existance, if anyone has different pictures? It’s certainly different to the one that I remember from the early 80’s prior to it taking on its present hideous form. Also read an article somewhere recently in which the bit of left over road in front of penny’s was described by one of our erstwhile council officials as an ammenity area ( sorry no pictures of it at present, although the state of the place would probably shatter the lens) Bring on the Shunnel and pedestrianisation!

    • #753275
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks Shane,
      where did you get that , its a very interesting building , quite unusual to anything In limerick ? well its a thumbs up for me if it goes ahead. 🙂

      by the way Tait building got the property of the week bt Sherryfitz 🙂
      the building is also ready for occupation.

    • #753276
      dave123
      Participant

      hey, just wanted to post a pic of the Edward street dev.
      as i said i’ll try get some of it..
      not a great pic though, but its the only one i can seemingly find or post 🙁

      [align=center:2jo6inz6]Image hosted by Photobucket.com[/align:2jo6inz6]

    • #753277
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Have to say, Baker PLace is a great success, a really nice surprise to greet anyone going from the station downtown. The addition of those apartments and shops will work well with the existing church and hotel etc. The new landscaping is seemingly a sampler for the whole pedestrianisation project, and although it might not be the most progressive looking fantastic super dutch design that’ll be splashed over the covers of every trendy design magazine, it’s very much suited to its context. Tree planting and public benches seem to have lost favour with local authorities thruoughout the land, but it’s great to see the trend being reversed here. Have some decent images and maps, but scanner is down at present so will get them on line asap. Any more photos of William St? There’s so many fine old shops and department store buildings there, it’s a shame to see it in such a shabby state now, it’s hard to see it changing any time soon though, with all the traffic congestion etc.

    • #753278
      ShaneP
      Participant

      As for the Edward St. apartments – got a few questions about that image – where did it come from? It appears somebody was fairly creative on the auld photoshop or else it’s an entirely different project to the one that has just been completed there. The apartments that have just been built, face directly onto Carey’s Rd (overlooking the Junction with Lord Edward St.) and so the houses in the background should not be visible in the image or else would be to the right of the apartments as viewed from the park!

    • #753279
      dave123
      Participant

      @ShaneP wrote:

      As for the pile of “poo in the Park” got a few questions about that image – where did it come from? It appears somebody was fairly creative on the auld photoshop or else it’s an entirely different project to the one that has just been completed there. The apartments that have just been built, face directly onto Carey’s Rd (overlooking the Junction with Lord Edward St.) and so the houses in the background should not be visible in the image or else would be to the right of the apartments as viewed from the park!

      poo in the park – 😀 i don]www.Murrayolaire.com[/url] , there is two pics of it, there were the ones i tried to post, but as you can see you can’t see it lol 😀 oh well i try looking elsewhere 🙂

      I’ll have to visit town soon, as i have’nt been there in a while , to see for myself whats bold and new and ugly 🙂

    • #753280
      ShaneP
      Participant

      As far as I know the properties on Liddy St all belong to Roches, so it’s entirely up to them what happens there. IS there any plans for the Dunnes stores site? All that’s been mentioned in the local press is that the remaining traders in the area are having a pretty diifficult time keeping the doors open. I tihnk there may have been some talk, a few years ago about relocating the Belltable down there, which sounds like a great idea -think a few Bolton St. architecture thesis explored the issue too, might see if there’s any possibilty of getting them on line.

    • #753281
      dave123
      Participant

      last comment for the day , has anyone got pictures of the the revamped Royal George hotel?
      your right about that Shane, and the council have been talking with Roches stores to use the units, but no sign of anything happening soon. what a pity!

      Over the next few days I’ll try get some stuff on the Park canal project.

    • #753282
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Ta – although i’m still perplexed, it just doesn’t make any sense on a number of levels, still dont know if it’s the same project – surely Murray O’laoire couldn’t be responsible, what with having designed so many other great projects, tourist office, shannon airport, and the box in King john’s caslte etc. Shocking altogether – and it seems they did the new one at the top of William St. too. What’s going on?

    • #753283
      dave123
      Participant

      i know Turbog asked a few weeks ago about the Royal george and who is designing it well I think its HKR achitects.

      this image is small though

    • #753284
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I think its really sad when you look back at all the fantastic buildings that this city has lost over the years,superb buildings such as cannocks, the old roches stores(mcbirneys i think was the name of the department store before roches moved in), the old todds building was another huge loss, i think i have some pictures of it somewhere! Unfortunately the photo i posted of cannocks a couple of weeks back seems to be only one i can find,i read somewhere that cannocks was demolished in the late 60s, i really cant find any reason why it should have been demolished, obviously just an horrendous decision by the planning authorities and one that the city centre is much the worse for now, the old roches building was destroyed by fire in 1948, one of a number of devastating fires to hit the city centre in that era, i think in a way the most tragic story of all is that of todds, a building of such character was destroyed and replaced with arguably the worst building ever to “grace” the city centre!

      Shane you mentioned something about brown thomas “getting their act together” have you some inside info on hopefully a revamp of the building or are ya just talking about their new menswear dept!, i actually feel like getting sick whenever i pass bt, nobody should look directly at that building, it wouldnt do you any good!

      Im found this in the limerick leader archives, ill also try and upload them pics soon, just as soon as i learn how to upload them directly instead of as attachments!

      Disastrous Limerick Fire

      BUILDINGS gutted: many workers now unemployed.

      ONE of the biggest fire disasters in recent times occurred in Limerick today (Tuesday, August 25, 1959), when the monster drapery house of Messrs William Todd and Co went up in flames.

      It was the biggest fire in the history of Limerick.

      The outbreak was first detected in the men’s wholesale department on the William Street side of the premises and within a matter of minutes this section was a blazing inferno.

      Thousands watched as the Limerick Fire Brigade vainly fought to control the flames, but within half-an-hour this huge section of the building was completely enveloped with flames belching through the windows and threatening the adjoining shops until eventually Messrs Lipton and Messrs Burton were also destroyed.

      The staff of Messrs Todds busied themselves with salvaging stock and books from the untouched portion of the building, but eventually had to desist because the task became too dangerous with portions of the upper floors threatening to fall in at any moment.

      Men and women ran to and fro, salvaging whatever they could lay hands on, and despite a roaring wall of flames at their backs. Books were thrown on to the streets from the office windows.

      Thirty minutes after the outbreak was first noticed, it spread to the upper storey of Messrs Burton’s Tailors and eventually so great was the heat that the fire engine in William Street had to be removed. One of the hoses caught fire, as volunteer workers were trying to haul it away.

      When it was seen that the fire had gained such a grip that it was completely out of control, calls were sent to the brigades at Shannon Airport, Ennis, Rathkeale, and the garrison at Sarsfield Barracks was also quickly on the scene.

      In all, 11 brigades were employed, including Cork, Kilmallock, Charleville, Fermoy, Ranks and Tipperary.

      For over two hours hoses were played on the blazing four-storied building and on the adjoining shops to little effect. There were up to 30 hoses playing on the fire at 1.30pm. In Bedford Row, at 3.30pm, one hose became disconnected when crossed by a car, and onlookers were drenched.

      The entire block of O’Connell Street, Thomas Street and William Street was cordoned off, and hundreds of volunteer workers assisted the brigades in manning the hoses, while all traffic was diverted.

      At one stage there was a danger that the fire would spread across William Street to the garda barracks, but the gardai tackled the sparks that came in through the windows. The tyres of a bicycle lying outside the barracks went on fire.

      About 15 minutes after the outbreak was first noticed, there was a huge explosion caused by the bursting of a fuel tank in the basement.

      It was learned that the probable cause of the outbreak was the bursting of a fuel tank in the basement.

      Just one hour after the alarm was raised there was a huge crash, and practically the entire facade of the premises crumbled to the ground. Fifteen minutes later the remaining portion caved in.

      The property was wiped out in three hours, causing £1 million worth of damage, but some premises in the block were saved, including Nicholas’, Cromer’s, Gaywear, O’Sullivan’s licensed premises, the Grimsby Fish Stores, and the main offices of Messrs Todd and Co Ltd.

      While Limerick Fire Brigade were battling with the outbreak, they were summoned to minor outbreaks at Cornmarket Row and Robert Street, and had to split forces.

      Windows on shops opposite Todds on O’Connell Street cracked, and shopkeepers kept a bucket chain going to prevent further damage. The brigade also hosed down the premises.

      Roches Stores removed all goods from its front windows, and other shopkeepers followed suit.

      About 200 employees of Todds are now out of work, and another 20 from Lipton’s, plus others in the adjoining premises destroyed.

      Todds fire was a watershed in the history of the city centre. Its stately interior, long and wide mahogany counters, and an all-round balcony with cast-iron ornamental railings, was a showpiece of another era.

      Lipton’s, the noted general grocers, was noted for its meats and cheeses, carrying on a very old tradition there.

      The end of Todds was the end of an era, heralding major changes in the city centre.

    • #753285
      jimg
      Participant

      I think it’s pretty obvious now that Cannocks was a huge loss. However, that’s just one building in that area. You can see also the beatifully curved Tyler’s jewelers (I think that’s what it was called) which was at the end of a terrace of Georgian buildings most of which were demolished to develop Arthurs Quay. I can remember those buildings existing. More recently the historic Cruises hotel was demolished. In thirty years time, I guarantee that people will be looking at old photos of Cruises the same way we’re looking at Cannocks now. It is easy to criticise the mistakes of the past (knocking Cannocks); it is more difficult to be honestly self-critical when it comes to the destruction of interesting buildings which has happened recently and even more difficult still to properly value the historical building which are left and feel protective towards them.

    • #753286
      Tuborg
      Participant

      This is the old todds department store, the one with the double decker parked outside it(if double deckers were used in limerick in the 50s, why arent they in use now with busses so overcrowded!), anyway it was indeed a fine,imposing building and would be a fantastic addition to the city centre had it survived,this whole block was destroyed in the fire,

      What a disaster that was when you consider they replaced it with this heap of s***,

      A sight for sore eyes 😮 , hard to believe this is supposedly the most upmarket and fashionable shop in the city, why the hell dont they do something about it, surely some imitation of a georgian facade could be put on it!

    • #753287
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks for that Turborg 🙂
      It gives people a view of the forgotten history of Limerick!

      I’m a saddened by that picture to see it gone ! its goes to show how grand and impressive it was.
      Yet we still walk that very street and there is no feel , or recollection of such ,

      there is still a few buildings still surviving on the street , i’ll post som tomorrow if I can, 🙂

      I really do hope the Arthur’s Quay is demolished or something, cus it really dos’nt fit in well to the rest of the street, 🙁
      looks of scale ,
      terrible multi storey makes anything above eye level of the entire building dead! 🙁

      If they could only rebuiild it and build some sort of Monumental heritage or open public space with cafe style outlets, shops,apartements overhead and a decent buildiong put up and maybe repalce the car park underground ? I think anything of the above mentioned would be better !

      When the pedstrianisation of the that section of O’Connells street that is coming on shorlty , they will have to do someting with Arthur’s Quay,SC along with the Arthur’s quay park.

    • #753288
      dave123
      Participant

      😀 Lol….. 😮

      Its so terrible , its funny.
      Thats where most of the buses park , ie for everyone to be reminded of how ugly the heap of s**** is ,

      I have always wondered ,even when i was young , thinking what the hell is on that building ! 😮
      As a child , i used to think that thing on the building was 100s of windows lol 😀 , even then i thought the building was crappy

      Its Brown Thomas for god sake , cover it up quickl 😮 y

    • #753289
      ShaneP
      Participant

      No, no inside info. goin on here Tuborg, Was referring to the fact that the whole inside of BT’s has been done up which means there’s a better choice of things on sale and that along with the other new shops that have opened, there’s less need to go to Roches now, so that might force them to up their standard a bit. As for the facade of BT’s – well it’s hardly alone in warrenting criticism. Most of the buildings around there (which at present marks the very centre of the city) convey the image of a very drab place, Dunnes Stores on O’Connell St, Bank of Ireland, Ryans Jewellers, penneys/ Burger King, Arthur’s Quay SC are all fairly depressing and it would be fairly optimistic to think that they’re all going to change overnight into some kind of spectacular architectural marvel. But if they do, here’s a couple of interesting precedents that go a little beyond Georgian pastiche

    • #753290
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Where did the image of the new Royal George come from? Think someone said it was actually a new office on Henry st., some time back. It couldn’t be of O’Connell St., because the present elevetion is much narrower and is taller than it is wide. Is that the Shannon St. elevation? Also there is/was a for sale sign on the Henry St. side of the GPO, does anyone know anything about it? I believe the building was known as Roches Hanging Gardens which sounds like it must have had a fairly interesting history (again – sorry for the lack of pictures) It’s a redbrick single storey building just around the corner from the main part of the post office.

    • #753291
      ShaneP
      Participant

      From LImerick Leader, May 28, 2005 –

      20 Years Ago

      AN POST STORM BREAKS OVER MAGIC GARDENS

      CONTROVERSY raged in Limerick this week as workmen moved in to begin the construction of a £1 million sorting office for An Post at the once famous Roches Hanging Gardens in Henry Street.

      An Post have been accused of “sheer vandalism” as they intend knocking down most of the existing building, which they own.

      But postmaster Bill Marnane pointed out that they had contacted An Taisce and other interested groups who had no objection to the new office going ahead.

      Referring to the plans for the new sorting office on the 800 square foot site, he explained that the existing facade was being kept intact as was the stone spiral staircase and the first archway.

      However, Captain Frank Parker, president of Thomond Archaeology Society, told the Limerick Leader that they would like to see what remains of Roches Hanging Gardens preserved in its entirety.

      “A substantial part of the original vaulting which supports the terraces is still intact and any scheme for the redevelopment of the property now occupied by the Post Office should provide for the preservation of this vaulting as well as the facade,” he added.

      Seamus î Cinneide, the Limerick antiquarian, is this Saturday bringing a group of archaeologists and historians from all over the country on a tour of the city, including Roches Hanging Garden.

      Mr î Cinneide said that An Post should be stopped from demolishing any of the building. Such action would be “sheer vandalism”.

      Mr î Cinneide said that the gardens were built in 1808 by William Roche, a Limerick banker, to the rear of his residence at 99 George’s Street – now O’Connell Street.

      They were on top of a series of arches which varied from 45 feet to 25 feet high. By means of glass houses, heated by ingenious flues, Roche grew exotic fruits like oranges, grapes and pineapples in one of the gardens.

      The garden cost Roche £15,000 to build. Their high position afforded him magnificent views of the Shannon and Clare hills.

      Although his fellow citizens nicknamed the gardens ‘Roche’s Folly’, Roche was a shrewd businessman.

      He profitably sold the vaults underneath the supporting arches to the Revenue Commissioners as a bonded stores for £10,000 and an annual rent of £300.

      During the emergency, the Department of Defence, singled out the building as an ideal air raid shelter.

    • #753292
      dave123
      Participant

      sorry I haven’t been able to post some pics in the last few days , I will be able to get loads up news by the weekened , busy travelling the land,

      looking forward to see some good news here , when i’m back 🙂 😉

    • #753293
      ShaneP
      Participant

      From Limerick Post – 12/8/05

      Demolition of St Mary’s Park?

      Marie Hobbins
      A LOCAL councillor’s claim that the 450 houses in St Mary’s Park will be demolished to make way for a new housing estate has been rubbished by Defence Minister, Willie O’Dea. He told the Limerick Post on Wednesday that such a plan is “definitely not on the Government’s agenda”.

      But Cllr John Gilligan categorically states that demolition of the houses, built in the 1930s, will proceed as part of a major regeneration plan for St Mary’s Park.

      Confirming that a study has been prepared for the regeneration of St Mary’s Park, Noeleen Ryan, co-ordinator for the RAPID (Revitalising Areas by Planning Investment and Development) Programme for the inner city said: “This has gone to the Department of the Environment for approval but the Government has told us that we will get regeneration. In order to secure this we have to put a strategy in place to cover all aspects of the area – social, economic, environmental, educational, etc as the plan is to regenerate and lift the entire area.

      “A project manager will be appointed and a company formed – all the relevant agencies will have an impact, not just the local authority,” she said.

      Part of the regeneration plan would be the construction of another road into St Mary’s Park and the development of new business to create employment in the area.

      “The study has to go before Cabinet as capital funding will be required,” informs Ms Ryan

      Minister O’Dea has emphatically dismissed any demolition plan for the housing estate and the Council’s Housing Committee member, Cllr Joe Leddin contends that it does not make sense that with millions recently invested in installing new windows and doors in the St Mary’s Park houses and a planned programme of central heating installation due to commence soon, that demolition of the houses is on the cards.

      “These houses are not lined up for demolition – it would be nonsense to have put new doors and windows at such a huge cost into the houses, not to mention the central heating that is due to go in and two years later demolish them,” he said.

      A contradictory view from Ms Ryan is that the central heating programme will commence in Lee Estate but will not progress to St Mary’s Park.

      Adamant that demolition is very much on the agenda, Cllr Gilligan said: “The houses involved, built in the 1930s, are mass concrete – their life span is well past. Why shouldn’t they be demolished – it happened in Ballymun which was only built in the 1960s.”

      Pointing out that the often maligned RAPID Programme is at last beginning to yield results, the councillor said that money is now being released for various new projects for King’s Island.

      “We’re getting 900,000 euro for a new creche in St Mary’s Park, 120,000 euro for the Widows Alms Houses,27,000 euro for a roof to the Star Rovers Club, 40,000 to rail off their pitch and 50,000 for an all-weather pitch for the club. There’s also been tens of thousands invested in the refurbishment of local schools. Money is being released but I’m looking forward to the big one, the regeneration of St Mary’s Park.”

      The Department of the Environment was not in a position to comment on the issue at the time of going to press.

    • #753294
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Irish Independent, Saturday, 13 August, 2005

      Three contenders line up to build indoor arena

      SUPERMACS owner Pat McDonagh faces competition over his dream to build a major indoor arena outside the capital.

      Two Munster-based businessmen – one in Cork and the other in the Limerick area – are understood to be putting together plans for the development of a major indoor arena for a variety of entertainment events.

      Both are understood to have completed feasibility studies on the project but have chosen separate locations, in Limerick and Cork, for their proposed arena.

      Galway-based Pat McDonagh proposed to locate a €100m development, including an 8,000-seat indoor arena, a hotel and restaurants in Athlone, Co Westmeath, but this ran into planning difficulties and he is now considering a number of other locations.

      He confirmed last night that he has looked at Galway, Limerick and “another midlands location” as alternatives.

      Limerick appears to be a likely location, given the proximity of Shannon Airport, with its huge volume of European low-fares traffic, and the city’s improving infrastructure.

      Limerick Mayor Diarmuid Scully believes the city should do all in its power to ensure it does not miss the opportunity to secure the development.

      “We must put our best foot forward, roll out the red carpet to these people to make sure that we do not lose out.

      “All you have to do is look at what the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham did for what was up to then a pretty much run-down city centre.

      “It revitalised the whole city centre, turning it into one of the most vibrant in Europe,” Mr Scully said.

      The mayor predicted that a site on the outskirts of Limerick would be the likely location, although he did not rule out the possibility of it being located on the docklands.

      “One way or the other, it will probably take both the city council and county council working together on this, but that would not be a problem,” Mr Scully said.

      Eugene Hogan

    • #753295
      dave123
      Participant

      Hey there,

      I must say Annacotty is one of my favoirite villages, anyone agree with me ??? its a real sucesss with the new hotel and apartements on the Mulkier River (spelling unsure)

      I thought the conference centre for Athlone got refused?? Limerick would be an ideal place for a conference centre as its proximity to both Cork and Galway and Shannon airports 🙂

      Well, I was In Limerick recently, and I seen the Lord Edward street dev. and I have to admit isn’t all that bad, if there was a few other new buildings gone up there, it would blend in, but frankly, it sticks out a bit. 😮

      The Georges site, is coming on well to, there even building the entire block, practically 🙂

      I was so amazed to see the Bedford row site, turned down, some sections is 6 storeys I believe, and the buildings is not even 20 years old, quite a big site, when this is finished it will really complete the grand henrys street, hopefully it will be an impressive building, like the new dunnes stores across the street.

      The jetland centre on the Ennis Rd and is opening next month… I’ll get pics soon.
      Dunne’s again is the main tenant :rolleyes: , along with nearly

      Has anyone have any notion about the Corbally Link rd, I think its currently construction ?? :confused: near the canal and corbally rd and links the Dublin rd.

    • #753296
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Ya its great to see progress being made on the savoy site, this is a really important development for the city centre and its completion cant come soon enough, my only hope now is that it lives up to all the hype and dosent become another flop, i suppose the fact that it’s a mixed use scheme will work in its favour, the hotel element of it is definately needed and a 5 star hotel slap bang in the middle of the city will obviously be very attractive for tourists and buisness people alike, a top class hotel was needed in the city centre but you’d have to wonder about the viability of the new hotel at the george site,its going to be a lot smaller than its counterpart at the savoy and with a new luxury hotel planned for the old jurys, you’d wonder would a larger retail development at the george have been more appropriate, as it is the first 2 floors are planned as retail space, these larger retail outlets are a sign of things to come and they are really going to put it up to cruises street where oasis have moved out and next are due to follow shortly citing a lack of space as the reason, this probably highlights the inadequacy of cruises street for larger retailers!

      BTW great news on that events centre, something the city is really lacking!

    • #753297
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Well. I still can’t believe you approve of that heap on Edward St., Dave123.

      If it lasts half as long as the Savoy did, i’d be surprised. It’s not only the fact that it looks cheap, which bothers me – the whole project appears to be the product of a lazyminded approach by architects, developer and planners. It is the epitomy of everything that’s wrong with new developments in Limerick today (as described by Ash1 a few weeks ago)

      As far back as 1991, a report was published on the success or otherwise of the first urban renewal schemes throughout the country – Murray O’laoire were involved in preparing that report, which included a section on the design of city centre apartment schemes. One of the many observations made was that new developments should have a variety of unit sizes to ensure a good social mix, as is the norm in the rest of Europe, so what do we end up with in Limerick, 14 years later – a block of 33 two bed apartments on Edward St and another one of c.135 two bed apartments on William St. – These lessons should be well learned at this stage as there are enough examples in this country and elsewhere of successful apartment schemes. It’s pretty disheartening to say the least.

      On a related point, is anyone aware of an apartment scheme in Ireland which includes a service lift and entrance (which allows for apartments to be renovated or upgraded without inconveniencing other residents or closing off roads and footpaths to accomodate cranes etc.)?

      As for Annacotty, it is good to see the place looking a bit more lively these days – the new bars etc have been hopping the couple of times i was out there, and the river makes a great backdrop to the village, long live Annacotty! – I guess Dunnes Stores will have to open a branch or two there soon though, given the rate at which they seem to be proliferating in Limerick. 3 new stores in as many years, can’t help but wonder are they trying to take over the world? There’s plenty of room in my hot press or perhaps under the sink if they’re stuck for sites and there’s easily enough room on the chimney for a spar, centra and vodaphone outlet if they want to make a bit of a shopping centre out of it!

      Is the demolition of the Savoy still in progress? Saw it during the first couple of days and it was fairly spectacular – the wrecking ball/ drill cut straight through the building ,the tv screens for the bowling alleys were hanging on by a thread, and you could see straight thru’ a section of the cinemas. Hope there’s a new cinema in town to replace it soon. Don’t think ther’s any risk of oversupply in in the hotel sector though Tuborg – seems a good no.of them are reporting 90% occupancy since all those Ryanair flights started out of Shannon. It was reported in the Post recently that there wasn’t a single room available in the city one weekend and if the convention centre gets built there’ll be capacity for plenty more. It’s the best idea to come about in years, a development that would suit Limerick perfectly. Did quite a bit of research on the subject for my thesis last year so will stick it up here soon – as it’s undergoing major reconstructive surgery at the moment, if any one’s interested.

    • #753298
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Also Tuborg, What’s BTW stand for?

    • #753299
      Rhino
      Participant

      Pretty sure Murray O’Laoire designed the apartments at Lord Edward St!!! and BTW stands for By the way!

    • #753300
      ShaneP
      Participant

      That’s what makes them all the more disappointing – i’d be tearing my hair out if I had any. Surely we could have expected so much better from that practice?

    • #753301
      Rhino
      Participant

      You have to bear in mind that Planning was granted for a development next door as well but has not started and maybe that is why you feel it is a bit sore. The developement is not finished and the copper finish has not yet been applied. Give it a chance and it might just grow on you! Remember that such a developemnt provides much needed security for the Park itself!

    • #753302
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Well that’s fantastic news – nothing was making sense until now, – the photomonatage, the timber cladding looking things etc. thanks for the clarification. I realise that the building’s presence could potentially benefit the park, but it would be reassuring to know that, that is by design rather than coincidence. It sure would be nice to get the views out of that penthouse. Is there going to be a mix of apartment types then? I hope it gets built soon because as it stands – well enough has been said on that!

    • #753303
      anto
      Participant

      Do ye not think Annacotty is being overdeveloped considering. Has lost it’s rural character is u ask me with suburban style anywhere housing estates on its perimeter. Won;t be long until it’s part of Castletroy sprawl

    • #753304
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Don’t really know the area too well, and was only there at night, so apart from the view from the main road it’s difficult to know what the place is really like. Guess suburbia is inevitable in this age and if it happens well it’s usually better if it’s stuck on to an existing village rather than growing out of nothing. In the mean time here’s a few photos from my archive for anyone still unfamiliar with Limerick –

    • #753305
      ShaneP
      Participant

      And some more –

    • #753306
      ShaneP
      Participant

      County Hall, Dooradoyle –

    • #753307
      ShaneP
      Participant

      And finally for now –

    • #753308
      Anonymous
      Participant

      there is a very good article from roughly 2 months ago at http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20050604/index.html and it’s worth a read. i don’t know if it was posted before by anyone else but i just found it interesting. this thread is big and it would take too long to look. 🙂

    • #753309
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Good article alpha and what interesting stuff. I like the picture too. It looks good. It’s amazing that now it is almost complete people are begining to like it. I like it myself.

    • #753310
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I was watching the RTE News several months ago and I saw an article about Limerick having 3 of the countries tallest buildings in the near future. We all know about the Clarion Hotel and Riverpoint but what will be the 3rd? Are they talking about Newton House or something else? I hope this 3rd one they are talking about is not Newton. I’d prefer somthing as tall as the other two. Then again they could be talking about 3 different buildings we haven’t even heard of yet. This article was in the news before Heuston Gate was granted planning permission. Info would be much appreciated.

    • #753311
      dave123
      Participant

      🙂 🙂 Sorry that I haven’t been around lately.

      I’m really impressed with the amount of building going on in Limerick at the moment 🙂

      I was at the Crescent last week, and the extension is almost finished,H&M are looking for recriuts and next and pennys is moving to the new part.

      Does anyone have any word on the parkway redevelopment???

      As I was heading back into town, I noticed the Riverpoint tower look even more impressive when seeing it at that angle of town, I really hope to see a few other high rise proposals in the Docklands, as this works well if there is a small cluster,

      The new apartments beside Pery Park, looks all right to me, I have seen worse……….
      If they were a few other newish or significant buildings near it, it would blend in more.

      Also the Bedford row redevelopment is really moving fast! 🙂 The entire block is down to rubble, and seeing the mass scale of it, also is mind blowing, considering its still a rather newish building! 😮

      The pedstrianisation and enhancement of Bedford row will be finished as part of the hotel =, shops and apartments.
      Can anyone tell me what’s going up beside the new Bank of Scotland building, or is still part of the same building, :confused:

      The hotel on the O’callaghan strand should be starting soon, does anyone know much about that.

      I have to say (Not from Limerick) I Find Limerick a safe city, and a lot safer than media make out, I’m quite happy browsing around the city and just admiring it…

      And….

      I spotted lay-bys and a boardwalk! At the abbey river near Barrington’s house, it quite nice to see it 🙂


      news…..
      The Mary I extension has gut the thumbs up , and should start very soon

      there is a building on Henry street that under investment , and i can;t remember which one 😀 I’ll try update on that because it was a significant building , but i can’t remember where?

    • #753312
      dave123
      Participant

      here’s a map of the proposed boundary extension the map is old,

    • #753313
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @paul lite wrote:

      Good article alpha and what interesting stuff. I like the picture too. It looks good. It’s amazing that now it is almost complete people are begining to like it. I like it myself.

      vey true. people knock things but then when they are built their attitude changes. having said that… that is not true with all buildings. for example hawkin’s house should never have been built. the same goes for college house. they have no style whatsoever. my attitude to those particular buildings will always be the same, yuck. lol. i am looking forward to hawkin’s house being demolished. the sooner the better. staying with limerick though, it’s nice to see this city starting to build up. i wonder what it will be like in 20-30 years? i haven’t been to limerick in a while but i should check it out soon. i want to see these new changes in this city. 😉

    • #753314
      Anonymous
      Participant

      That looks fairly logical and it not only reflects much actual expansion over the past decade it would also give Limerick City a chance to expand without loss of control to local authorities with contrary objectives.

    • #753315
      dave123
      Participant

      here is some pictures of the park canal , and more coming…..

    • #753316
      dave123
      Participant

      @paul lite wrote:

      I was watching the RTE News several months ago and I saw an article about Limerick having 3 of the countries tallest buildings in the near future. We all know about the Clarion Hotel and Riverpoint but what will be the 3rd? Are they talking about Newton House or something else? I hope this 3rd one they are talking about is not Newton. I’d prefer somthing as tall as the other two. Then again they could be talking about 3 different buildings we haven’t even heard of yet. This article was in the news before Heuston Gate was granted planning permission. Info would be much appreciated.

      As far as i’m aware of
      Is the St munchins house (rather ugly office building) will be replaced when the dep of agric. move premises for the reconstruction
      that will be 12 storeys.
      part of the bedford row redev. will be 10 storeys
      the new hotel on the ennis road will be 12 storeys

      other than that , I’m not to sure but , I wouldn’t be surprised if yet a bigger and better skyscraper to popp up!
      areas around the old race course and dock road are waiting to be…

      Just a thought. it would be nice to see a residential tower on the other side of the shannon close to the bridges 🙂

    • #753317
      dave123
      Participant
    • #753318
      Anonymous
      Participant

      They must be the ones I heard about on the news dave123. It is interesting to know about these things. I must say it is exciting to hear about these developments popping up in Limerick.

    • #753319
      dave123
      Participant

      http://www.wihcc.nl/index.php?pageId=30&lang=en

      here is some interesting information about the riversidecities of Europe 🙂

    • #753320
      dave123
      Participant


      a view from king johns castle


      looking up at the clarion hotel


      Baals bridge, classic red brick bridge 🙂

    • #753321
      Anonymous
      Participant

      hee hee, lol. i like that angle of view on the clarion hotel. that makes it look huge. it’s soaring. 😉

    • #753322
      Tuborg
      Participant

      I think the building on henry street you’re referring to dave is the former an post property, it used to house their sorting office for the limerick area,it was bought by a local developer about a year ago but since then not much has happened, its probably complicated by the fact that it is a listed building and alterations can only be made to the inside, there was speculation that it was to be converted into third generation office space but seen as the riverpoint building has been fully let and the high level of vacant premises in the local office market maybe these plans have been put on hold, construction is also starting soon on 2 sites to the rear of the old county council buildings, this area has been derelict for a number of years and the development is long overdue, the 2 building are to contain apartments and retail outlets, if only the esb would do the right thing and sell their premises the redevelopment of the street would be complete.

      Work is progressing well on the savoy site and word is that interest in the retail outlets is really strong, at last some good news for the city centre, especially with the jetland, city east and the crescent extension all nearing completion, an annoucement is also imminent on the rejuvenation of the michael street,ellen street,bank place area, hopefully it will be a properly thought out plan. Also dave i think you were asking about the corner of henry street, this was where the henry cecil bar used to be, it was one of the oldest bars in the city and was due to be renovated for retail use, unfortunately it collapsed when demolition work was underway on the carlton cinema, it was a real shame as the building at least had some character as opposed to the bank of scotland building which to me looks like an egg box!

      Finally there hasnt been much news lately on the jurys site at sarsfield bridge, permission was granted for a 5 star hotel and conference centre and apartments were also included in the plan but its been appealed to an bord planeala on the grounds that the height of the development (up to 14 storeys) is not in keeping with the character of the area, seems to be a similar complaint to the ardhu site, in fairness i think this one will get the go ahead!.

    • #753323
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Just saw a planning notice in the Leader for another hotel – at the corner of Pery Sq/ Barrington St – sounds like a small enough development involving the restoration of a Georgian house and a five storey addition to the rear. As for the development at Punches Cross – it was supposed to be a hotel with the original pub left intact, but it seems to have been put on hold for a while. There’s going to be a lot of hotels… and dunnes stores’ in Limerick when it’s all finished! Got this picture of Pery Sq from this website –

    • #753324
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks for that Turborg, the on post building was the one I was talking about because it was a corner site and looks a bit run down! :rolleyes:

      I hope it gets rebuilt or refurbished as soon as possible 🙂
      The two old sites behind the old county council buildings, is that behind O’Connell Avenue?
      If that’s the one I’m thinking of, well the sites have a lot of potential 🙂

      Lol egg box, ah its not that bad, it was under tax incentitives :rolleyes: and at least it compliments the existing red brick and new buildings on the street, and I really do like Henry street now, having said that to, look at the state it was three years ago? 😮

      That’s a very grand building, and a very tucked in area, not far from the park and the unfinished newtown Perry grid plan, which just ended along there and was meant to continue too, does anyone know what I’m on about lol….

      As for punches cross, as far as I’m aware, that development is held up because, the developer is looking to change and have alterations to the exiting plans? I’m nearly sure I heard that somewhere,

      The Hotels should get the height, I really don’t see why they should be objected, as there is everything going for it, been close the river, and the city centre and a stone throw to the existing high rises? that area has not much choice to build up as the land values there are high.
      Fingers crossed on those hotels. 😎

      there’s a hotel going up on the Dock rd too, the site used to be garage, now its going to be replace with a 5 storey hotel , I believe it has started. 🙂 thanks for the pic shane , great help.

    • #753325
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Well, Dave123 – you mentioned the terrace on Pery Sq – It has a fairly interesting history.

      It was the last georgian terrace to be built in Limerick in 1836. It was financed by means of a tontine, whereby each of the investors in the project received rent on their investment while they remained alive. As each member of the tontine died so too, their shares and the last person alive ended up owning the whole terrace. Seemingly this form of investment resulted in an untimely end for many people and so these types of companies were outlawed, although i’m not sure if Pery Sq gave rise to any such carry on.

      Also the terrace was meant to be part of a planned square around what is now the People’s Park – (I think it was for residents only, back in the day) however those six houses were never intended to be continued on, so it will be interesting to see how the new part of the hotel is integrated with the existing house – I think there is a vacant lot behind the house on Barrington St. If you look at the photo you can just about see that the entrances to the houses at either end of the terrace are to the side as opposed to being at the front and as well as that each of the end houses are set slightly forward. These gestures were apparently intended to give the whole scheme the appearance of a unified entity – like a large country house instead of 6 townhouses – so i read somewhere anyway.

      No. 2 Pery Sq. has been restored to something of its original form by the civic trust and is open to visitors if you’re interested. Here’s an image from a book called,”The Building of Limerick” by Judith Hill which is a fairly good introduction to the history of the city’s planning and architecture.

      Also the old county council buildings are the row of 5 or 7 converted georgian houses at the junction of O’Connell St and Mallow St, if that’s any help.

    • #753326
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Here’s an image of the warehouse referred to earlier on (apologies for the picture quality). It’s from that Judith Hill book too.

    • #753327
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Those warhouses are fairly decent buildings, there’s a few of them in Limerick, but don’t ever remember seeing them anywhere else, at least not on such a large scale – do they exist anywhere else?

      Some promo stuff from the city council on pedestrianisation project –

    • #753328
      ShaneP
      Participant

      More from the promo –

    • #753329
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I don’t wish to engage in a comparative analysis of the respective strengths/weaknesses of Limerick and Galway, but I do wish to make some very simple observations. Having lived in Galway for 9 years and Limerick for 4, I feel that I can draw some conclusions about the nature of both towns. In summary, I left Galway to move to Limerick for employment reasons – I left Galway reluctantly and I have missed it ever since. It is a wonderful town/city to live in and, afterall, that is ultimately what an urban space should be about. I left Limerick after 4 years as I found it dreary, unsafe, boring, and largely depressing. The essential difference between Galway and Limerick does not relate to size, population, weath, or retail parks. It relates to one thing which the CSO cannot measure – namely, attitude. Galway looks to the outside world and sees itself as an international town/city. That is evident in its festivals, its cosmoplitan flair, etc. Limerick looks inward on itself in the traditional old small town Irish way. It has no sense of the international. That is evident in the petty gangland squabbles which still bring it down. In short, Limerick might be more ‘urban’ than Galway, as some of you have claimed (by this I presume you mean it has more ‘big’ buildings and wider streets), but it is certainly far more ‘small town’ in its mentality.

      On a related issue – surely the debate about whether Limerick/Galway are cities/towns is redundant – both are, by international standards, towns. Indeed, even in the UK both would be considered towns according to their population levels. Ireland (Rep.) has 2 cities – Dublin and Cork (at a stretch). Surely this should guide the discussion a little by casting a modicum of perspective on the debate.

    • #753330
      dave123
      Participant

      PDLL, please don’t compare situations about Galway and Limerick , as this was dicussed on earlier times, and has gone over board. Although I’m Not dissmissing your views , but I don’t think you should bring up this issue on this thread because, its not about what Galway has that Limerick hasn’t. In my view Limerick is a city. Limerick is internationally known through a numerous reasons that i feel not to describe to you. 🙂

    • #753331
      Boyler
      Participant

      So if Galway or Limerick were to become cities by international stanards, how many people, at least, would have to live in them?

    • #753332
      asdasd
      Participant

      That changes every year, but is now running at 192,815.

      Or else have a cathedral or city charter.

    • #753333
      Tuborg
      Participant

      PDLL, people like you really piss me off, whats the point in opening up an old argument that ended about 2 months ago, fair enough you’re entitled to your opinion but to be honest you’re talkin serious bulls***,its obvious you’re from galway and are just trying to blow it up again, fair enough it has some bit of charm about it, but really i dont see what all the fuss is about, its city centre is pretty small and insignificant and to be truthful lacking in interesting buildings, there is something quite bland about them, just because the shops are painted bright colours and the streets are narrow and cobbled dosent mean its got more going for it than anywhere else, it comes across as a bit fake to me in fairness, a serious case of a city being overhyped. You’re not on the galway city tourist board or anything are ya?

      You see its obvious you’ve fallen victim to press stereotyping, no matter what happens in galway or dublin it inevitably gets played down, heres an example, at the weekend a tv personality was mugged in dublin yet it only made a small column in the corner of PAGE 16 of a well known broadsheet, why?, because it happened in our beloved capital city of course!. If a similar incident happened in limerick it would make front page news and thats a fact!, there are plenty of things that happen in galway and yet go almost unreported, its widely known that galway has a serious public order problem yet its kept quiet so as not to upset the tourist trade!

      This crap about limerick being unsafe is getting incredibly tired at this stage, is this opinion formed from your own personal experiences? or are you just a bandwagoner, personally i think its the later!

      If you dont have any opinions of your own or have anything constructive to say, then theres no place for someone like you on this forum!

    • #753334
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @PDLL wrote:

      The essential difference between Galway and Limerick does not relate [in terms of] retail parks.

      Galway is a mess; it more so than any other place in Ireland is choking on its own economic success by failing to translate this into good planning/architecture , I say this with a heavy heart as I have extensive connections with the City of Galway and it really annoys me when transients such as yourself point to retail parks as a bonus. The Headford Road roundabout must be the worst inner suburban road junction in any City in Europe. It is directly attributable to the planners who sanctioned it and the NRA for not performing their duties under the 1993 Roads Act.

      Whilst Limerick is not perfect they are at least acheiving densities that Galway can only dream about in 5-10 years time. A little more control over the design quality of much of the infill and Limerick would get quite a good report card. I’m looking for a copy of the Limerick PLUTS if anyone can PM me.

    • #753335
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Any future discussion on the fabulousness or otherwise of Galway might prove more insightful on its own thread if anyone has a particular interest.

      Found this article recently on http://www.railnews.co.uk . A little off the point perhaps, but should be relevent to the future development of Limerick ;

      SHANNON AIRPORT RAIL LINK STUDY ORDERED
      Rail news & views | April 2005

      11 April 2005

      IRISH Railways — Iarnrod Eireann — has been instructed by Transport Minister Martin Cullen to carry out a feasibility study of a new link linking Shannon Airport with Limerick City.

      The proposed rail spur to Shannon Town and the airport would be 10 kilometres (six miles) long.

      The study will investigate a number of issues including cost, passenger numbers, the route, the location of stops and changes. The report is due to be published within six months.

      The Shannon Rail Partnership has carried out a number of studies in the past two years, which indicated that the rail link will be viable.

      Commenting on the study ordered b y the Transport Minister, a member of the Shannon Rail Partnership, Padraig MacCormaic, said: “We think there will be a successful and positive outcome from the study, especially with the airport growing and Ryanair and other airlines coming in, which will bring in thousands of people to the airport and they won’t all want to be hiring cars. If a rail link was in place they would be able to get to Limerick and Ennis quickly and conveniently.”

      PLUTS sounds vaguely familiar TP, think I may have come across it before.Will try an help but little more explanation might jog my memory.

    • #753336
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Apologies for stirring up the Galway-Limerick debate – I have just entered this thread and perhaps should not have done so in the manner I did. I had wished to deal with the issue of Limerick and Galway being referred to as cities, but I thought a little bit of personal experience might also be useful.

      To answer Tuborg’s reply – I am not from Galway and I do not work for the Galway tourist board; I have not fallen victim to press stereotyping; and the bit about Limerick being unsafe is based upon my own personal experiences.

      Oddly enough, I was subject to two incidents of public disorder in Galway, so my judgement is not flavoured by some romantic image of that particular town. Despite that, I could quote many many more incidents of violence which I witnessed in Limerick in a shorter period of time (like some 10 murders in 2001 or 2002 – I cannot remember – why don’t you check your precious CSO statistics for violent crime if you want to avoid the crap you read in the papers). If I did that, however, I would be accused of putting Limerick down, so why would I bother. ANyway, nobody wants to go down the road of I saw this and I saw that in whatever town in Ireland. There is no doubt that Limerick gets a rough deal in the press – but it could do a lot to improve its image and to make itself a more desireable place to live. Seize the day and all of that. Funnily enough, when I worked there many of my colleagues praised the city no end and yet where did many of them choose to live? – Killaloe and Annacotty. Strange.

      If you leave Ireland and go back to it with a fresh and unbiased pair of eyes, you will notice a number of interesting things. 1. Galway and Limerick are both medium sized towns (we could debate population definitions for years and still not come to a final answer – indeed the debate has been raging in this part of the world since the Victorian period and before and we are still no closer to some absolute figure. For my own part, I would probably offer a figure of 150K + as being a reasonable estimate for a city). Those who argue strongly that Galway and Limerick are anything more than medium sized towns simply uphold the old Freudian penis-envy type mentality which obviously feels inadequate when comparing the towns of Ireland with those in other countries. Sligo Corportaion (or Borough Council of Sligo) is a classic example insofar as it continually presses for city status for Sligo – a town you can still walk across in 1 hour. The civic authorities in Tuam wouldn’t be far behind (‘welcome to the Cathedral City of Tuam’ and all of that). Surely this is an example of the Irish sense of humour in action. It is obvious that Ireland still has a deep sense of its own inadequacies and one place this comes out is in its sense of urbanism. This is so very obvious when reading the self-inflated reports etc on the great metropolis of Dublin – a small to average city by western European standards. Some times you would imagine it is another Shanghai by the way it is referred to in the media. 2. The towns of Ireland are largely unorganized, dirty, lacking in serious and widespread indigenous architectural merit and traffic ridden. What little architectural merit there is is undermined by the people’s inability to show pride in what they have and to keep the place in order (and, yes, Tuborg, I am Irish). Personal profit is, after all, all that matters – Yeats was right on that one. My own home town of Sligo is a filthy hovel with broken down streets, falling down buildings, boarded up windows, dirty footpaths, no public transport worth speaking of, a lack of play amenities for children, very few cultural attractions of any national or international merit and a mentality to go with it. That is a story replicated across many other Irish towns – the only variation is that some towns exhibit it on a larger scale than others. In that context, Galway is probably the best of a very dismal lot – that is why I celebrated the things which it does offer – including a greater degree of cleanliness than many Irish towns, some nice public amenities including play areas for kids, a reasonable public transport network and some interesting cultural attractions and the people actually make an effort to keep it in good condition – they know what makes them their bread . In addition, it has the bonus of the Salthill promenade – a designated public walking area which is not so common in Irish towns.

      The beligerent language and comments of such contributors as Tuborg are simply a verbal expression of the type of ignorant mentality that has informed Irish urban planning since the foundation of the State and the ‘success’ of our new found wealth. Perhaps Limerick is just a very good example of that mentality expressing itself in an architectural and spatial form. Tuborg, I do hope you can look beyond the smoke stained red brick and see that.

    • #753337
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @PDLL wrote:

      Oddly enough, I was subject to two incidents of public disorder in Galway, so my judgement is not flavoured by some romantic image of that particular town. Despite that, I could quote many many more incidents of violence which I witnessed in Limerick in a shorter period of time (like some 10 murders in 2001 or 2002 –

      You must be unique in actually witnessing 10 murders anywhere in the World in 2 years; was it a mass murder or dide you have to give witness statements on each one?

      That is some analysis you were assaulted twice in Galway, saw 10 murders in Limerick and think that your home town is a filty hovel, have you ever considered emmigrating?

    • #753338
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Badly phrased, I admit. I am happy to state that I did not witness any murders in Limerick (other violent and criminal incidents, yes, murders, no) . The awkward nature of the way I expressed myself should not, however, take away from the actual facts of the matter. Not wishing to prolong the discussion on Limerick/Galway, if people truly want to settle the issue without recourse to the press or subjective public opinion, then let them consult the CSO statistics for violent crime in Irish urban centres. Stereotypes may be disagreeable but they do not come from the wind.

    • #753339
      dave123
      Participant

      PdLL, Stop digging!…

      This thread is for Architecture and news in limerick not, ranting, not your personal issues with Limerick.

      I will just highlight something you said you were not trying to have a comparative analysis of your opinions of Galway/Limerick 😮

      “U did exactly that”, very hypercritical I think, You obviously have issues with Limerick, or that’s how you come across on this thread, :confused: I can’t believe you brought this up knowing the consequences, please don’t say you were unaware of this, as Deja vous doesn’t happen for no reason :rolleyes:

      Limerick is just a city like most Irish urban centres faults and all, so please keep this c””p of yours to yourself.
      It would be appreciated.
      :rolleyes:

    • #753340
      A-ha
      Participant

      I don’t usually write messages in this forum, but just for the people who don’t know, Ireland has five cities Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. Different countries have a different population quota to be recognised as a city. In the UK, there are over 100 cities, even though their quota is higher the ours, the country is alot more urbanised then us. But, in Australia, the population needed to retain city status is only 15,000. If that was the case here, every back wash of a villiage would be looking for city status, which I am totally against because places like Sligo, Killarney or Clonmel don’t have the proper services of a city like Dublin, Cork or Limerick.

    • #753341
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I thought that the Republic of Ireland had 6 cities in total. Kilkenny is also a city and therefore should be included in the count. 🙂

    • #753342
      asdasd
      Participant

      Gosh, Irish provinciality is rampant on the city issue. For the record, a city has a city charter. That’s it. Used to have to have a cathedral too, so Armagh is a city I believe. Services have nothing to do with it – places like Clonmel and Kilarney may not have the services of mighty towns like Limerick, but Limerick is not New York nor London nor Los Angeles and has no comparable services.

      If we stick to size then nothing but Cork(barely) and Dublin can be considered cities. London has a population of 10 million or so. it is patently ridiculous to describe towns of 15,000 as back wash villages while accepting the claims of Limerick at about 80,000.

      in that case you are accepting that an urban centre can be a city at 0.8% of London’s population but not at .15%; which is absurd.

      So cities are chartered as cities. And that’s it. Kilkenny is as valid a city as Limerick.

      There are no prizes to be won here folks. Cities in America can have 2,000 people and less, it is just another type of urban incorporation.

    • #753343
      dave123
      Participant

      the Shannon rail link- is exciting news!

      Thats great for the whole hinterland and not just Limerick!
      the reopened Line from Ennis to Limerick , is a wonderful success. (worth mentioning)
      Well ,
      i just heard that there are opening the Corbally road link, that will link Grove island , mill road to Dublin road and cross near the canal. It will open within the next few weeks 🙂 A great releif at that side of the city. 🙂

      Shane where did you get the images of the Pedstrianisation of the city centre ,could’nt get them online :confused: 🙂
      great details plans!

      When will O’Connell street improvement start? In my mind the plan won’t start until through traffic is removed by the New Shannon tunnell (which is to start next year)

      heres a pic of the Punches cross dev. quite a deep whole ! looks like another big hotel

      More good news

      Canal restoration set to flow

      THE eagerly awaited restoration of the Park Canal has taken a very positive step forward this week. It is being planned that the canal, which with five other European cities has been awarded funding for upgrading purposes, will also see the restoration of boating and fishing activity as well as the enhancement of its banks with leisure facilities.

      First of all it has to undergo a dredging process and tenders for the process have now been secured by Limerick City Council.

      The dredging process is essential in order to restore navigability and equally important is the establishment of new lock gates, one at Park Bridge and another to replace an old, disused gate at the Guinness Store. Lock gates will prevent the canal water becoming stagnant.

      The mile-long Park Canal connects the Abbey River and the Shannon and the planned restoration will bring the picturesque riverway into a city context while the Shannon end will retain a rural feel. A cycleway will run from the city to the University of Limerick .

      Looking forward to work commencing without delay, Cllr Kieran O’Hanlon in whose Ward the city section of the canal is, said that the Council is hoping to finalise the tendering process this week. He expressed some concern, however, that all of the tenders received are quoting a price above the 1.25million euro received by the Council for the project.

      Confirming that Waterways Ireland has committed to putting in a new lock gate, the councillor stressed how vital it is that work commences as quickly as possible.

      “The 1.25 million euro secured from Europe must be spent on restoration work before the end of this year, otherwise we lose the funding which would then go to another city,” he said.

      Further plans for the canal include a complete restoration of the old Guinness Store, transforming the bank into an attractive walkway with top-level lighting, seating and fishing areas, landscaping as well as fishing and boating activity to include a river bus out to the University of Limerick.

      The project is being spearheaded by Limerick City Council in co-operation with Shannon Development.

      Email this story to a friend

    • #753344
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Dave whats the source of your information on the Shannon rail link?

    • #753345
      A-ha
      Participant

      asdasd, Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’ve never heard of Kilkenny being called a city. And new cities are created almost every year in the UK, if they don’t have a charter, it’s simple, the Queen gives a new city it’s charter, just becasue the charter isn’t hundreds of years old doesn’t mean that it is invalid (e.g. Wolverhampton). Also, I think going by cathedrals is too old fashioned for todays society, Cloyne, a villiage with less then a 1000 people has a cathedral but I wouldn’t call it a city. Anyway, getting away from that, has the Shannon rail link been given the go-ahead or is it in planning stages? It ‘s such exciting news, and it will beat Dublin to the punch of having a airport-city rail link.

    • #753346
      Tuborg
      Participant

      pdll are you still talking?, it would have been wise to shut up a long time ago and stop making a tool of yourself, its hard enough to take you seriously as it is without some more blinkered and partisan comments, as shane said why dont you go away and set up an “i love galway” thread, Also i never once mentioned issues of urban planning in limerick in my last post, maybe you should start a thread about that, anything would be better than the drivel you’re spouting at the moment, i just hate it when someone who’s quite obviously ignorant and uninformed comes on and tells some blatant lies, you have zero credibility pdll, if you cant stick the heat then get out of the kitchen!

      Anyway on more important topics great to see some movement on the park canal and the rail link to the airport, 2 really important projects for the city, a rail link to shannon surely makes sense as the distance involved is quite small and with passenger numbers growing all the time there is sure to be a steady demand for it, its also a nice alternative to road travel, especially with no plans to improve the section from clonmacken to bunratty, its a pretty unsafe and substandard section with median breaks and residential accesses, grade seperation is badly needed on this stretch,id say its pretty far down the priority list though, and yes it would be great to beat dublin to an airport link.

      Unfortunately dave i think we will have to wait until the southern ring is completed to see work on o connell st start, again down to government mismanagement, i lad to laugh today when i was looking through some old news, the predicted completion date for the 2nd section was EARLY 2006, a little bit optimistic at this stage i think, although if they started tomorrow you’d never know, although placing a toll on it defeats the whole purpose of the project especially so close to the city , i think we’ll continue to see hgvs in the city centre for a long time yet! 😡 .The o connell street project is really urgent as the street really deserves better, it would give it some space to breathe and revitalise itself!

      A for the city debate i suppose really there is only four real cities in Ireland, its actually hard to find another country with such an imbalance in population between cities, dublin is way out on its own, id imagine the poulation of the greater city area in Cork is around 170, 180 000, Limerick is around 100,000 and Galway 80,000 or so, waterford then has only around half the population of limerick, kilkenny then is a city in name but in name only, it really dosent feel like a city when you walk around it, it dosent really have the variety of shops and services you’d expect from a city, there dosent seem to be any big centre of employment and the big giveaway is it dosent have any third level colleges, still i must say i like the layout of its streets and the old world charm it has!..

    • #753347
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Tuburg and Dave123, of course I am still talking. Opinions and debate are what make life interesting – we should strive to entertain both and not castigate those that we do not necessarily agree with.

      What originally interested me in this thread was the definition of a city and the sense of urbanism which makes some towns/cities distinct from others.

      A number of contributors originally suggested that the presence of wide-streets and the construction of high rise buildings in Limerick added to the sense of urbanism which Limerick apparently enjoys over other medium sized towns in the Republic. This appears to be an approach that defines a city and its ‘urban feel’ (for the want of a better expression) according to building height and street width rather than according to the size of its population. While the presence of high buildings generally denotes a reaonable population density and a certain degree of economic stability, it cannot be seen as being the defining characteristic of a city or of a sense of urbanism. To suggest that would imply that an urban area with a significantly higher population but with narrower streets and lower buildings is somehow less of a city and more of a town. That is not logical.

      Obviously it is, in the post-medieval world, largely irrelevant to consider things like city charters and the presence of a cathedral in defining the modern city. That is why I have not considered such issues (otherwise,, for example, as SLigo has both a Catholic and a Protestant Cathedral it could probably proclaim itself to be a metropolis and not even a city). In that context, surely there is a need to define what is a city in a more empirical way (ie by population levels) and not by a subjective and rather arbitrary sense of an urban feeling which was the original criteria used to distinuish Limerick (as a city) from Galway (as a town). In my orginal posting I argued that both were, by international standards, medium sized towns – with reasonably comparable population levels, I stand by this. Putting issues of national and provincial pride aside, most people would accept that Limerick and Galway are both diminutive by international standards and if they don’t believe this they should listen to the remarks of tourists when they read about Galway as ‘Ireland’s third largest city (pop. 60,000)’ in their touist books. It would be interesting if the EU established a set of population guidelines which set standards for defining cities and towns across Europe – where would Limerick and Galway fit in then?

    • #753348
      asdasd
      Participant

      Obviously it is, in the post-medieval world, largely irrelevant to consider things like city charters and the presence of a cathedral in defining the modern city.

      no it is not. The world is full of tiny cities that have city charters. the republic has 6 cities including Kilkenny, and who knows, we may create more in the future.

      Here’s a small america city and capital

      http://www.carson-city.nv.us/aboutcarson/demographics.htm

      population 52,000.

      Here is a small Irish one

      http://www.kilkenny.ie/

      population 24,000

      ( there are smaller cities than carson but I can only google so much)

      Now get over it. Being a city means nothing in terms of size, or buildings. It is a legal definition. You need a city charter, and cities have Lord Mayors, not Mayors. So back to pictures of Limerick. I was enjoying this thread as I dont get to Limerick much.

    • #753349
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Here’s a bit on the LImerick PLUTS (Planning Land Use and Transportation Strategy) – from the Limerick Leader 22/12/01

      Expansion in city and towns strong
      By DEARBHLA LOOBY

      SMALLER family sizes in the mid-west region mean that the number of households will grow by about 50 per cent by 2026.

      This is one of the forecasts in the Limerick Planning, Land Use and Transportation Study presented to Limerick City Council by Malcolm Buchanan of Colin Buchanan and Partners, consultants at this week’s meeting.

      The report covers the city and a radius of abut 25 miles, including Newcastle West, Kilmallock, Foynes, Nenagh and Ennis.

      The study deals with the period from 1996 to 2026, and predicts also that the total population in the area will grow by between 47,000 and 58,000, to approximately 260,000 in the next 20 years.

      The present populations (incuding suburbs) of the larger centres are: Limerick 83,000; Ennis 18,000; Shannon 8,000; Nenagh 6,000; Newcastle West 4,000. These are all growing strongly, but some smaller villages are still declining.

      The report also estimates that the labour force will grow by 42 to 48 per cent.

      It pointed out that there are currently nearly 1,400 hectares of land zoned for residential development in the region.

      “This could accommodate over 30,000 new homes, which means that 90 per cent of the estimated increase in housing demand could be accommodated on existing residentially zoned land,” Mr Buchanan said.

      He said it was the consultants view that this land should be used for residential development. “It should as far as possible be focused within transport corridors. Good residential layouts with access for through bus services which can link the new settlements to shops, workplaces, schools, etc are in our view more important than exceptionally high densities in making the new developments sustainable.”

      The study found that the road network in the region has many weaknesses.

      “There are significant delays through town centres, especially Limerick. Roads are of poor quality, particularly away from the primary route network, and poor connections to some areas such as Foynes. There is poor maintenance of the roads and high accident rate. Many of these problems will tend to get worse as traffic increases,” Mr Buchanan said.

      He pointed out that a programme of road scheme for the area has already been assembled by the NRA, the three county councils, Limerick Corporation and their consultants.

      “This study, PLUTS, has therefore concentrated on looking beyond the construction of these committed and planned schemes, and has identified nearly 30 links in the road network where more capacity is needed by 2026. Within Limerick itself, further road widening or construction has to be considered in the light of the needs of the environment, pedestrians, cyclists, busses and freight deliveries. The opportunity exists to exploit the capacity released on the city centre network as a result of the Southern Ring Road and fourth river crossing,” he commented.

      He expressed concern that this released capacity could easily be eroded by the proposed crossing tolls, which could divert traffic back into the city centre. “We suggest that a city centre traffic management scheme could prevent this from occurring and also prevent toll revenue being eroded.”

      City manager Brendan Keating said a final presentation on the consultation findings in the study would be made in February.

      “The findings to date stem from detailed study and a consultation process. The study has been on display for some time and has attracted considerable interest. Views expressed by a number of people have been incorporated in the report,” he said.

      Knew I saw it mentioned somewhere before – got a 3/4 page mention in the current city development plan – google searches yielded various bits of it. Here’s a link to one part –

      http://www.limerickcdb.ie/images/strategy.pdf

    • #753350
      ShaneP
      Participant

      As for news on the Shannon rail link, the original article came from here –
      http://www.railnews.co.uk/displaynews.asp?ID=892

      There was another article, which seems to have disappeared off the interweb for now. I think it was put out by Beauxwalk Properties, who were responsible for redeveloping Shannon town centre – It gave fairly detailed info on how the link could be brought about; including proposals for stations at Park (canal)/ Corbally, Longpavement/ City North, Cratloe, Sixmilebridge, Shannon (2/3 stops), Clarecastle and Ennis – as far as I remember.

      http://www.westontrack.com/news36.htm
      West=On=Track – News
      Firm would invest euro16m in airport rail link
      The Irish Times (9th October 2003)
      by Gordon Deegan

      Plans to provide a commuter railway railway to Shannon airport yesterday secured a major breakthrough when a private company Beaux Walk Properties, said it was prepared to invest eurol6 million in the project. A report published yesterday by the Shannon Railway Company on the project concludes that the euro60 million commuter rail link between Shannon, Limerick and Ennis “is a viable commercial entity” through a public-private partnership.

      The proposal envisages a regular seven-day service between the three centres using the existing rail line between Limerick and Ennis together with a new six-mile spur to be constructed to Shannon Town Centre, Shannon Free Zone and Shannon Airport. The proposed schedule anticipates a train service to and from Shannon Airport every 20 minutes to Limerick and Ennis. The Shannon Railway Company is a consortium of investors led by Beaux Walk Properties, which is currently constructing a 150 million redevelopment of Shannon Town Centre,

      Yesterday , its managing director, Mr Barry Boland, said the proposed commuter rail link envisaged attracting 20 per cent of the estimated 230,000 weekly commuter car trips to use the new services. The report says there is a potential demand for 2.3 million passengers a year for the service in an area which has the highest single concentration of industrial employment outside the Dublin area. “Our assessment is that the service will generate sufficient profits within five years to render the project a viable commercial enterprise without any ongoing Government subvention,” he said.

      Mr. Boland said Shannon Rail Company was prepared to invest 37 million, provided the Government gives a tax break equivalent to the balance of euro23.5million. The funding proposal involves the euro23.5 million from the Government, investors’ equity of euro26.5 million and bank borrowings of euro10 million. The Government is also being asked to provide euro4 million per annum for the first five years of the project.

      The report says the costs of constructing the new six-mile spur to Shannon off the existing Limerick-Ennis line, along with upgrading parts of the current line, will come to euro41.8 million. Clare County Council in its recently adopted South-East Clare Economic Plan has prohibited development taking place within the corridor of the proposed rail link. Mr Boland said: “The proposed link is consistent with Government regional policy and will have a major impact on the development potential for the Limerick-Shannon gateway.” To move the project forward, Mr. Boland said the promoters were prepared to undertake detailed technical, financial and market research study at a cost of euro500,000. The company had sent a copy of the report to the Minister for Transport, Mr Brennan, and had asked the Department of Transport for a euro200,000 grant towards the cost of an agreed feasibility study.

    • #753351
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thanks for that Shane, as I’m sure you are aware West on Track have been ecplised by the McCann Report of May 2005 which found that the Western Rail Corridor is completely unviable North of Tuam. This is I imagine due in no small part to the absolute shambles that passes for planning in Mayo and the low population base in Southern Sligo.

      I totally support the Shannon Rail Link but despite its low cost and a significant financial contribution being on offer from Beaux Walk Properties nothing seems to be happening.

      The only issue I take with the rail news article is that it only mentions Limerick & Ennis as being the beneficiaries of a Shannon Rail link, it would also be of Significant benefit to Galway which unlike Limerick has no real airport.

    • #753352
      ShaneP
      Participant

      The Park Canal project sounds fairly interesting. It’s a really nice walk out to UL from town especially where the canal rejoins the Shannon at Rhebogue? it’s complete wilderness, with not a buildng in sight – one of a number of great but overlooked wildlife corridors into the city along with the marshes in Corbally and around Barringtons Pier/ Northern Approach Road, so fingers crossed a decent job gets done. The last part of the plan doesn’t exactly inspire confidence though,”Phase 2 of the project cannot be fully defined at this time as it would involve substantial inputs from the private sector as development schemes are brought forward. ” especially given the fact that new housing estates can already be seen along the Dublin Road.

      The info on the pedestrianisation project came from a leaflet got from The Limerick co-ordination office on O’Connell St. about a year ago. No start date was mentioned, but it seems the opening of the Shannon Tunnel in 2009, is the most likely date.

    • #753353
      ShaneP
      Participant

      It does seem odd that a priavate company is waiting to finance this project for something like 5% the cost of a disjoined luas system and still little action from the powers that be!

      Forgive me if I indulge in a little rant but perhaps the visionaries at the department of the environment and local government will remove the word planning from any communication with the outside world and replace it with reactionary. I think the pace of change in ireland at the moment is such that, many government reports etc (despite their best intentions or other wise) become outdated/ overlooked before they’re published. Would it not be a better idea that perhaps given the problems getting infrastructure built in this country that some respectable member of the community up west could rally the locals and build the railway themselves from Derry to Limerick. I’d hazard a guess and say that Knock airport didn’t go hundreds of millions over budget!

      Here’s an article i came accross in a recent edition of the LIMERICK POSTal

      In a surprise announcement from an unnamed minister at an unnamed department it is expected that the 50000 new houses envisaged for the mid west over the next 15 years are to be built in a great big ribbon from Limerick to Galway either side of a new super dooper fandidlytastic highway (dual carriageway in non-local politician parlance) complete with a great new suburban style neighbourhood centre somewhere between Ennis and Gort.
      This idea, it was stated, will satisfy everyones perceived need for a big back yard and parking for at least 3 suv’s while at the same time creating a great new mega Atlantic metroplis which could market itself as having the biggest widest bestest main St ( 64m) – eh sorry trendy European /continental style boulevard in the world – ever!!!
      The move was broadly welcomed by those people usually prone to welcoming things with other big and important delirious ministers stating that massive gynormous tax breaks would be made available to those wishing to build holiday homes instead of anything really useful/annoying like those houses that need proper infrastructure and other things that smack of effort. Such a move would justify the recent sidelining of Shannon Development’s plans to bring 20000 new jobs and 4 billion in investment to the region, and sure aren’t those feckers in Limerick full of ideas well above their station anyway – the feckers, it was further stated.
      Adding further insight to the government’s plans, one defensive official said that he hoped the dublin meedya wouldn’t get hold of the news ’cause they’d only try and use it to link it to violence and make smart comments at Limerick’s expence, he also elaborated by saying that he supported government policy in the region and that anyone who didn’t could feck off up to Dublin/Portlaoise and sure what was the point of having all that overpriced sprawl up there if no one was going to live in it.
      Public reaction to the news has so far been apathetic and largely mute as everyone is still stuck in traffic at the bleedin Parkway roundabout. However one shady looking character, spotted near Sarsfield shopping centre offered the following, ” come here i want ya sham” adding “goway outta dat or I’ll stab ya, ya posh la”

    • #753354
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Just found this in the limerick post today, finally some explanation on that big hole at punches cross, wishfull thinking that its going to be completed by next july id say!

      Thursday 28 August 2005

      Rocky start but building proceeds

      By Marie Hobbins
      AN ASSURANCE that work will be completed by July of next year on a hotel and mixed development at Punch’s Cross has come from Tobin Engineers of Galway, the company contracted to remove rock from underneath the site.

      When the site was closed off and work ceased some weeks ago, no specific reason for the discontinuation of work was given by businessman, Brendan Dunne, who first submitted a planning application for a hotel and apartments on the site in 2001.

      Until this week when work resumed, speculation mounted with a range of various reasons being stated for the stoppage

      Dispelling a claim that excessive rock underneath the site had shot up the costs, Eamon McPartland of Tobin Engineers, Galway confirmed City Council senior planner, Kieran Reeves’ earlier assurance that the rock breaking process had been finished well ahead of schedule.

      Speaking to the Limerick Post on Wednesday Mr McPartland said: “There were two separate contracts, undertaken by Cordell Construction. The first – the enabling contract was for the groundwork and even though we encountered a lot of rock it proved easier to remove then expected with the result that we were able to claw back three weeks from the expected completion date but it was too early for the main contract to proceed and then we had two weeks’ holidays to be taken – this accounted for the site going quiet.”

      Mr McPartland said that another reason for delay in proceeding to the next phase of development was due to “the formation of a consortium over a period of time”.

      Despite some modifications now being sought, Mr Reeves told the Limerick Post that “the core of the planning application is not being changed – the basic structure is not changing dramatically”.

      Asked why there are now requests for further fire escapes, Mr Reeves said this is to comply with requirements for a Fire Safety Certificate and he said that the planning department is working its way through conditions attached to the planning permission regarding finishing materials.

      He further stated that alterations sought for the hotel “are linked to a housing development planned for Hassetts Field behind the Punch’s Cross development”.

      City councillor for the area, Jim Long, said the local residents are glad to see that work has recommenced on the development.

      “It will be good for the area but I have arranged to meet with the planning officials to investigate more fully the planned development of 40 houses in Hassett’s Field,” he said

      Also i see that construction has has started on the hotel and retail complex on the childers road beside the limerick enterprise park, it’ll contain around 100 rooms,bar, restaurant and leisure centre, theres also plans for a neighbourhood retail centre on the site. About a year ago there was talk of an urban regeneration masterplan being drawn up for this area, involving a town centre development for the roxboro area along with retail, commercial and residential developments, havent heard anything about it since, does anyone have any info on it, its definately an area that could to with a bit of a facelift, especially as its basically the southern gateway to the city!

    • #753355
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Just something on riverpoint(due for completion next month) and also some hints as to further development in the city centre!

      Sunday business post

      Sky’s the limit for Limerick developer

      21 August 2005
      The new Riverpoint tower in Limerick, the highest building in the city and the third tallest in the country, does not mark the height of local property developer Michael Daly’s ambition.

      The accountant, corporate financier and property developer is also planning a €100 million, 100-bedroom four-star hotel and 95 apartments on the site of the old Savoy cinema in the city centre, and a retirement village at the Castletroy Park Hotel outside the city, not far from the University of Limerick.

      The Riverpoint building on the river Shannon, which will eventually house 150 apartments, offices, shops, a restaurant, bar, gym and car park, is costing €75 million to develop. Once it is complete, 1,000 people are expected to live and work in the building.

      It is one of the largest developments in Limerick and will change the face of the city, finally giving an attractive shape and character to an area that has been one of the oldest eyesores in the locality.

      Daly has set up a financial structure behind the property whereby he retains a majority 51 per cent shareholding and splits the remaining shares among seven others. There are different structures in his other developments, but he holds a majority shareholding in each of them.

      Anglo Irish Bank is backing not only the Riverpoint venture but all of Daly’s major property projects. Daly and his investors put up about €15 million of their own money in Riverpoint.

      The building is close to completion. During the final phase, the building next door, St Munchin’s House, will be demolished and a nine-storey building above a courtyard will be built with 100 apartments and a creche.

      The Riverpoint tower itself has a bar and restaurant on the ground and first floors, and 13 storeys of offices above that. Daly said two floors had been taken by a Limerick firm of solicitors, while an accountancy firm had occupied another two floors. Several construction companies have also taken occupancy.

      The 15-storey building, at 200 feet, is smaller only than Cork County Hall and Liberty Hall in Dublin. It was designed by architects Burke Kennedy Doyle and built by Sisk, the construction giant that partners Daly on his property projects.

      “We are delighted Riverpoint has been received so well,” said Daly. “It is a terrific landmark building for the city. We’re getting on with business now – once we finish one job, we move on to the next – but it is nice to leave something behind that everyone is comfortable with.”

      Daly said his property development business, Fordmount Properties, was behind €375 million worth of projects, making it one of the largest property companies in the midwest. The firm’s shareholders are Daly, Dermot O’Donovan, Thomas Dalton, Adrian Frawley and Michael Sherry.

      Daly said the views from Limerick’s tallest building and its 220-space car park were the building’s two major draws for its tenants. “The view of the river is just wonderful,” he said. “You have views everywhere: you can see the Clare hills in the distance. That is what is actually selling it – everyone who has come down to look at it has gone ‘wow’. The view is awesome.”

      Daly said that while there are plenty of car parks in the city, there are very few large car parks for businesses and apartment owners. “The underground car parking has been a huge benefit,” he said.

      “Parking has not been readily available in the city. There would be other car parks of that size in the city, but not attached to office and residential.”

      Daly was a former corporate finance partner at Grant Thornton, but left to set up his own boutique house, First Capital Corporate Finance, and concentrate on his property projects.

      Despite his level of activity in the property market, he still pays close attention to his corporate finance business, which primarily sets up property funding schemes.

      The firm has raised finance for a shopping centre and nursing home in Co Galway, a retail park in Co Longford and a hotel in Co Leitrim.

      Fordmount’s planned hotel on the Savoy cinema site will be operated by another hotel owned by Daly and his fellow investors, the Castletroy Park Hotel off the Dublin Road outside Limerick.

      Daly hopes the new hotel will be open by next summer and surrounding shops by the end of the year.

      Daly and his investors bought the hotel last year from US billionaire philanthropist Chuck Feeney for about €25 million. Fordmount’s retirement village will be located next to the hotel.

      According to Daly, Fordmount is assessing other sites in Limerick city centre that he believes could be ripe for development. He said other property developers have focused on building in the suburbs, but he believed the real value was still in city centre locations.

      “There is a lot of retail parks being built around the city, but I would like to see the city centre being restored from a retail and commercial perspective,” he said. “Any town needs a vibrant town centre. I hope we haven’t run the risk of maybe going too much on the outskirts. That is one of the reasons why we are looking at other sites in the city centre.”

      Daly has taken an office in Limerick’s highest building, but denied that he was considering taking space on the top floor of the Riverpoint.

      “I am going into the eleventh floor [of the offices] – there are two floors above me. I didn’t want to be seen as the king of the castle,” he said, laughing.

      “I was tempted, alright, but I quickly dispelled the temptation.”

    • #753356
      Anonymous
      Participant

      i must say tuborg, those articles are very interesting. they are a good read. well done. i find daly’s remarks about him not wanting to be seen as king of the castle funny, lol. i am excited about the riverpoint building. it’s a welcome addition i think. i like it. 🙂

    • #753357
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The riverpoint is one of the better buildings done at scale and is well related to its riverside setting due to its simplicity.

    • #753358
      dave123
      Participant

      🙂 I really Like the Riverpoint Building , I can’t wait for the St munchins site to be demolished to , to be build from scratch and arcitecturally mirrior its neighbour, Its even more awesome to see the reflection onto the Shannon! One of the best projects ever to have hit Limericks skyline in my opinion, I’m sure most would agree 😉

      The St. Munchins Building will start as soon , as the Department of Agri waiting move to a new or vacant offices , while the constructions starts.
      Here’s a pic , to show the ugliness of it 😀

      To this !

    • #753359
      dave123
      Participant

      Planning Application Details:04585 Go Back

      Limerick City Council
      Planning Application Details

      Application
      File No 04585
      Received Date 22/12/2004
      Applicant Name Alocin Ltd.,
      Address Chapel House, 2nd Floor, 21-26 Parnell Street, Dublin 1.
      Status NEW APPLICATION

      Development
      Type PERMISSION
      Description The proposed development will consist of improvements/widening to existing access at Parkway Retail Park from N7; improvements/widening of internal access road and provision of new link from existing roundabout in a south easterly direction and infrastucture/site works associated with proposed multi-level car parking area and service yard access on lands to the east within adjoining authority; new hard landscaped plaza area in corporating water feature, column and bollard lighting to the east of the existing internal access road/roundabout, mast sign measuring 17.4m in height; new retaining/boundary wall with adjoining residential area (Castletroy View and Carn na Ree); connection to existing foul and surface water services. The proposed works are to facilitate a proposed mixed use district centre retail / commercial and leisure development (totalling 58,415 sq.m gross floor area)on lands within the adjoining authority. SEE ATTACHED SCHEDULE
      Address Parkway Retail Park and adjoining lands, Singland Limerick.

      Architect Name James Toomey Architects
      Protected Structure N
      Protected Structure No



      Ths is been futher validated.

      also ,
      another dev. on Ennis rd, 🙂
      to demolish the existing petrol station and decommission of oil storage and to construct a mixed development on O’Mara Motors site, Ennis Road, Limerick. Consisting of a 90 bedroom three/four storey dormer style hotel, with conference/function room, bar, kitchens, stores, bin stores and other ancillary spaces, and 4 single storey retail units at ground floor in a single building block. Multi level car park, two site entrances and ancillary works

      There are at least 3 other Devlopments on the Ennis Road area (incl Jetland centre which is due to open soon
      This is the site of where the proposed hotel is going to pop up!

    • #753360
      dave123
      Participant

      🙂

      Tuborg wrote:
      I think the building on henry street you’re referring to dave is the former an post property, it used to house their sorting office for the limerick area,it was bought by a local developer about a year ago but since then not much has happened,

      I just remembered also seeing another sign up outside Henrys street at the Garda?eircom building , that there was was potential for investment there , thats sounds interesting , although i just passes it, so Im not definate yet .
      here’s som more pics,
      I had to get a pic of the Newton Building as there a certain aor of confusion to where and what the building in the past, I knew the building well but was totally unaware of the name of it, so appears that i was confused 😀
      anyway

      And, Gerald griffen


    • #753361
      CraigD
      Participant

      I see politics plays a large part in what the third city of Ireland is.
      I see it as Dublin, Belfast (cringes), Cork and Derry.
      However, Limerick is a gorgous place, and has the same problem as Derry with pretty distasteful media coverage.

    • #753362
      ShaneP
      Participant

      IRFU is expected to pay E3m for 15 homes next to Thomond Park

      By Mike Dwane and Deirdre McGrath

      The IRFU want to buy 15 homes adjoining Thomond Park for over E3m

      Ballynanty residents have been approached by the IRFU to sell their homes on Knockalisheen Road to facilitate the redevelopment of Thomond Park.

      One resident told the LImerick Chronicle that no deal has been done yet. “There are 12 family homes and three council houses here. They have to try and buy it all on block. These are all big houses. However, where are we to go with E200,000. That wont buy you a garden yard in LImerick” said the resident.

      The hallowed rugby ground is to be doubled in capacity to over 26,000 and could host more international games if all goes to plan.

      Residents in Ballynanty say they were first approached by members of the IRFU about four weeks ago and negotiations are on-going.

      Each resident has been offered E200,000 plus legal fees for their home. The developers say the fee is non-negotiable.

      Residents believe rugby authorities want to knock the existing ballynanty end and re-align the pitch by turning it 90 degrees.

      A new stand would be built where the 15 homes on Knockalisheen Road now stand. The row of houses, built around 50 years ago, is known locally as the, “Banana Block” after its curved shape.

      All but three of the homes are owned privately after they were bought under the local authority tenent purchase scheme. Some residents have inherited them from their parents.

      One man who spoke to the Limerick Chronicle said he would not budge unless he was offered the right price for his home.

      Asked if it was true if a E200,00 offer plus E40,000 disturbance money had been offered, he said he couldn’t comment at this stage but that, “negotiations are on-going.”

      At the time of going to press, the IRFU had not made themselves available for comment.

    • #753363
      ShaneP
      Participant

      So quite a few big smileys there, Dave123. It will be class alright -100% good craic extra free. There’s always a great atmosphere in the city when there’s a big match on, be it rugby or GAA. Haven’t been to the Gaelic Grounds since it was finished, but I gather it has a capacity of c.55,000, which surely makes it close to second in size after Croke Park.

      As for media coverage, don’t see the point in lazy throwaway remarks which seem all to common in a lot of national newspapers – it reflects more on the character of the journalist than the city and I can’t imagine it does their sales figures any good as I certainly am not going to pay to be insulted, regardless of any good points these papers might have.

      I think Limerick has to be the most liveable city in Ireland at present – despite the problems it shares in common with many other places. And with all the proposals such as the Shannon rail link, tunnell, new shops in the city centre along with pedestrianisation, convention centre and Thomond Park among others, it will only get better.
      🙂

    • #753364
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Also, read somewhere recently that a new greyhound stadium is to be built somewhere on the Ennis Road, near the Two Mile Inn – I think. Definately a cause for gratuitous use of smiley faces. 🙂

    • #753365
      Tuborg
      Participant

      Work gets underway on 16 million euro college building

      SHORTLY before the college commences another academic year, One of Limerick’s landmark buildings, Mary Immaculate College on the South Circular Road, is to undergo a major refurbishment that will produce a state-of-the-art all-purpose building on the college campus.

      The college was granted 16 million euro last year from the Department of Education to build a multi-purpose teaching and sports facility. The allocation came as a welcome relief to the college administrators and teaching staff who had described the building as “bursting at the seams”.

      Work on the new facility commenced this week and is scheduled to be completed in 15 months.

      The contract for the construction was won by P Elliott and Co Ltd who carried out the regeneration work on Dublin’s Fatima Mansions.

      The construction work will cause some disruption in the area and college president, Dr Peadar Cremin, in a letter written to local residents says: “As you are aware the works involve the creation of two new permanent entrances off Courtbrack Avenue.

      “In order to minimise disruption to those living in the vicinity of the college, P Elliott and Co Ltd will use these entrances for access and egress from the site for all construction traffic.

      “Likewise, in relation to car parking, P Elliott and Co Ltd will provide adequate car parking on site for all construction personnel, ensuring that no construction related car parking affects Courtbrack Avenue or Summerville Avenue.”

      The college has commissioned a detailed tree survey which has identified and numbered all tees on the campus, including those that will need to be removed to facilitate the works or for safety reasons.

      The developers have stressed that every effort will be made to minimise the removal of trees and that all trees retained will be protected for the duration of the construction work.

      Good news for mary I, often at the butt of jokes over its lack of proper social and recreational facilities, definately much needed investment,its really been the poor relation of limericks 3 third level colleges, also construction of the new kemmy business school building at ul should start this college year aswell, i saw the plans for it just as we were leaving for the summer, glass seems to be the predominent feature here, makes a bit of a change from all the redbrick!, as far as i know its going to contain 1 large lecture theatre and a number of smaller ones along with (more) offices and i.t. rooms!

    • #753366
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Here’s a link to Murray O’Laoire’s plans for Mary I, It does give the impression of a bit of a glorified secondary school as it is, although there’s a fairly colourful facade on one of the more recent additions (c. 1970’s I think ) sort of a mosaic of blue and red fibreglass panels.- Seems to be a lot of big plans for U.L. at the moment, but couldn’t get anything on the Kemmy Business School, The Glucksmann library in U.L. might be of some interest, I’d say Dominic Perrault might have been in fashion the year this was designed:

      http://www.murrayolaoire.com/education/projects/maryi_masterplan/index.html

      http://www.murrayolaoire.com/education/projects/ul_library/index.html

    • #753367
      dave123
      Participant

      I don’t understand why we now have a low rating , for such a fantastic thread :eek:!!

    • #753368
      hailtothechimp
      Participant

      People have been asking for pics of the city so I thought I’d post a few of my own random shots:

      Riverpoint Building near the Shannon Bridge:
      http://static.flickr.com/23/31487177_786fe73fc4_b.jpg

      Detail of Riverpoint Building:
      http://static.flickr.com/22/31487590_a1e5567cb7_b.jpg

      Looking from Clarion ‘deck’ towards Steamboat Quay. Riverpoint building in background plus that hideous (soon to be demolished) office block:
      http://static.flickr.com/21/31486735_f0efc6ff31_b.jpg

      Clarion Hotel:
      http://static.flickr.com/22/31554306_95c5ee6666_b.jpg

      View back down the river from Barrington’s Pier, showing much of the new development along the Shannon:
      http://static.flickr.com/22/31490490_5031ff9e22_b.jpg

      For fans of destruction out there, a pic of the Savoy being torn down:
      http://static.flickr.com/21/32901300_478c2ca8c6_b.jpg

      View from Shannon Bridge towards Sarsfield Bridge, with Castle in the background:
      http://static.flickr.com/22/31487904_9974a109e7_b.jpg

      View of George’s Quay across Abbey River:
      http://static.flickr.com/21/31159062_564224d208_o.jpg

      Dragon boat racing near King John’s Castle:
      http://static.flickr.com/21/31159132_a194fd7029_o.jpg

      Hope they prove illuminating. Any questions or queries, please fire away.

    • #753369
      dave123
      Participant

      thanks for the pics Hailtothechimp! a great asset to the thread!
      The view from the river looking towards the Clarion and riverpoint in view is awesome!
      I have a query, on the cranes behind the riverpoint , near a city centre location, just wondering would u know what dev. is going up there?

      just found this on the Independant.
      Limerick deal realises €10.8m
      Wednesday August 31st 2005

      COLLIERS Jackson-Stops has sold Sarsfield Hall in Limerick city for over €10.8m. The deal reflects a net yield of under 4%, setting a new level for prime retail in the city.

      The mixed retail and residential investment, with the shops let to Roches Stores on new long leases, was sold prior to auction. The property is in a prime retail location at the junction of O’Connell Street and William Street, Limerick’s main shopping thoroughfare.

      Jonathan Hillyer, head of Investment at Colliers Jackson-Stops, remarked there was a huge amount of interest from all over the country and there will be several disappointed parties. The buyer was a Munster based investor who was willing to act quickly at a very attractive level prior to auction.

      “This shows the continuing strength of the retail investment market in Ireland and in particular Limerick, which on top of significant rental growth over the last few years, has a very positive outlook going forward

      Is the vacant units on sarsfield/liddy st? anyone know what kind of investment comming up in this sale?

    • #753370
      dave123
      Participant

      news.
      Limerick City Council invites suitably experienced contractors to apply for tender documents for the above project.

      INVITATION TO TENDER
      CORBALLY LINK ROAD PHASE 2

      Limerick City Council invites suitably experienced contractors to apply for tender documents for the above project.

      The works involve :
      • Construction of 65 metre long three span bridge
      • Construction of reinforced earth wall embankment
      supported on piled embankment
      • Construction of approximately 400m of 10.5m
      carriageway with the 2 metre wide cycleways and
      2 metre footpaths on either side of the road
      • Reconstruction of approximately 250 metres of
      Park Road
      • Signalised junction at Park Road/Link Road junction
      • Service diversions and ducting
      • Accommodation works for adjoining properties


      At O’Connell Street from it’s junction with Ellen Street to it’s junction with Cecil Street and on William Street from it’s junction with O’Connell Street to it’s junction with High Street

      IMPORTANT NOTICE

      PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ACT, 2000
      PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, 2001, PART 8

      In accordance with Article 81 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, Limerick City Council wishes to advise of it’s intention to carry out the following works at O’Connell Street from it’s junction with Ellen Street to it’s junction with Cecil Street and on William Street from it’s junction with O’Connell Street to it’s junction with High Street:

      The proposed improvements include pavement widening throughout; improved pedestrian crossing facilities at major junctions; removal of on street parking and rationalisation of on street loading bays; relocation of bus stops; controlled delivery times, high quality surface finishes; improved street lighting and new street furniture.

      Plans and particulars of the proposed development will be available for inspection at Limerick City Council’s Planning and Development Department, 3rd Floor, City Hall, Merchants Quay, Limerick between the hours of 10.00am and 4.00pm, Monday to Friday for a period of 4 weeks beginning on the 29th August 2005.

      Submission or observations with respect to the proposed development dealing with the proper planning and development of the area in which the development is situated may be made in writing to Limerick City Council, Planning and Development Department before 4.00pm on the 30th September 2005.

      Dated this 26th Day of August 2005.

      planning permissions received , or waiting to be granted.


      Two Mile Inn Ltd. Brendan Dunne,
      Ennis Road
      Limerick

      Permission and retention permission to carry out alterations and retention to Punches Bar and approved Hotel, Leisure Centre, Bar and Restaurant development permitted under planning ref. no. P99/419. See Attached Schedule Punches Cross
      Ballinacurra Road
      Limerick


      Madden Gerard
      Bellview
      Athlunkard
      Limerick
      Planning permission for the following alterations to previous planning permission granted, ref. 03/157 on foot of application. Ref: 00/449 at Carr Street, for change of use of 1st and ground floor apartments to a 110 spaces private car park to accommodate parking for the buildings apartments and neighbouring buildings parking requirements. Carr Street
      Limerick


      Mullane John
      73 O’Connell Street
      Limerick

      Permission for demolition of rear wall of main building and demolition of existing rear annex, removal of existing rear pitched roof, for change of use of existing house to office accommodation, including new 4 storey extension at rear, to include new rear wall to replace existing; proposed 4-storey rear extension, incorporating lift, WC’s and lobby areas, french doors to new rear back wall to replace existing windows, 2 no. offices at basement area, 2 no. offices at ground floor area, 2 no. offices at 1st floor area, 2 no. offices at 2nd floor area, 2 no. offices at 3rd floor area. Permission sought to make good existing slate roofs including repairs to existing lead valley between roofs and parapet gutter at front, where required. Repair all external windows and doors, re-plumbing, new heating system, rewiring to include fire detection and security system, modification of railing to permit a new steel access staircase to basement offices from Mallow Street and associated site works


      Futureama Productions Limerick Ltd.,
      13 Lakyle Heights,
      Ardnacrusha
      Co. Clare
      Planning permission to use the lands at Merchants Quay known as the Potato Market and its environs for occasional recreation and entertainment purposes associated with public functions, parades, exhibitions, sporting events and concerts including all ancillary and related uses and amenities and the placing of all temporary structures associated with such events Potato Market
      Merchants Quay
      Limerick


    • #753371
      dave123
      Participant

      I got a pic of the Barrington’s house dev.
      it recieved a lot of interest in thr past, so i got the opportunity to get it here!
      one of favourite buildings in Limerick 🙂

      another pic!

    • #753372
      ShaneP
      Participant

      Great to hear something being done with William St – It wasn’t included in the pedestrianisation plan, but O’Connell St/Ellen St. was – are these just tempoary measures till the whole project gets underway? – Anyway any work on William St. can only improve the place. Fair dues to the city council too, for all the hanging baskets they put around town, it brightens the place up no end.

      The building on Sarsfield St is on the left hand side as you’re heading out of town over the bridge – think Esprit, Top Shop, Bay Trading Co. and a few others have shops there along with a number of blue painted apartments overhead wouldn’t mind living there myself – that’s what the picture in the Irish Times said yesterday anyway, so guess it’ll be a while yet before anything happens on Liddy St. I’ll juist boycott Roches Stores til they do something bout it – it’s an embarressment to the city.

      http://www.nma.ie/articles/2002_01_IA.pdf

      Don’t understand the low rating either – if there’s something wrong with it, low raters might suggest improvements. Nice photos by the way.

    • #753373
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks for that Shane ,
      I know where it is now, as for Roches , I don’t go there either now as eveytime i pass it , i get annoyed such a prime retail spot , that has a lot of potential , which could be used ,
      The city council should have dealt with it 😡

      Has anyone got updates on the jetland , the opening date is September. 🙂

    • #753374
      dave123
      Participant

      Not a great pic , but got it from http://www.rooneyauctioneers.com
      the development is on Bedford row
      consist if 4 storey over bacement , ant comments?

      more pics later 🙂

    • #753375
      dave123
      Participant

      a pic of building in Henry st , not sure where abouts? 😮

    • #753376
      dave123
      Participant

      another pic of the riverpoint! 🙂

      Recent prime greenfield sites left in the city centre by HOK.
      I guess this land is for recretional and residential and a extended educational facilties at the existing monastery building etc.

      more…
      and a below an attachement of the Roches st building that was mentioned earlier

      and a link to the jetland SC brochure>http://www.hok.ie/images/commercial/10005208/10005208_brochure.pdf

    • #753377
      ShaneP
      Participant

      What’s that yolk on Bedford Row? Aaaagh it’s a fairly offensive looking thing – does the neo gothic(k) part exist already ! Don’t recognise it.- anymore info?
      The limestone building in the other photo looks like part of what used to the Shannon Arms hotel. It was later a pub called Feathery Burkes (bout 10 years ago – an illustrious drinking establishment if ever there was one!! ) and I think it’s now offices or apartments. It’s on the same side of Henry St. as the Redemptorists and not too far from there either.
      Does the aerial view mean that that land is for sale? – it looks like it’s the playing fields of St. Clements, a fairly sizeable area anyway, is it zoned for residential development?

    • #753378
      linda
      Participant

      I guess people think that I am obsessed with skyscrapers. Just to let you know I like Riverpoint too. It looks really good. A 15ish storey building that looks good seems fine to me. Having said that, I do not like what is attached to it. It would look way better standing alone. LOL.

    • #753379
      t.scott
      Participant

      river point is the job…great stuff. i went to ul in ’93 and remember the city being quite depressed and depressing so its great to see this town quietly getting on with the various projects like this and the redevelopment of the savoy site.
      lots of potential in limerick for serious buildings and with the new bypass, the tunnel under the shannon and the proposed/hopefully soon to happen limerick to shannon airport rail link, i think limerick is only going to go from strength to strength!!!
      that stretch from the riverpoint tower to the clarion is probably going to see a lot more stuff pushing up the height issue and i hope the city keeps going well!!!

    • #753380
      hailtothechimp
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      Not a great pic , but got it from http://www.rooneyauctioneers.com
      the development is on Bedford row
      consist if 4 storey over bacement , ant comments?

      more pics later 🙂

      The development on Bedford Row shown is where the “Central Studio” cinema is/was. The cinema has long since closed its doors as a permanent theatre but it was being used by the Belltable for their film club.

      The familiar facade of the “Central” is a 20th Century addition to a much older Wesleyan Methodist Chapel. If you go down there now and look at the side of the building you can see that the “Central” facade extends only about 15 feet in from the street. The actual theatre part of the cinema was, in fact, the modified interior of the chapel. You can see the bricked up windows of the chapel in the alley beside the “Central” and, of course, you can see the ‘gothic’ detail on the roof area if you stand further up Bedford Row and look at it from an angle. You can also get a good look at the roof from the top floor of the new Dunne’s Stores.

      As far as I understand it the plan is to demolish the “Central Studio” facade to reveal (once again) the facade of the original chapel. Could work out quite nicely if done well.

    • #753381
      hailtothechimp
      Participant

      @dave123 wrote:

      thanks for the pics Hailtothechimp! a great asset to the thread!
      The view from the river looking towards the Clarion and riverpoint in view is awesome!
      I have a query, on the cranes behind the riverpoint , near a city centre location, just wondering would u know what dev. is going up there?

      Cheers Dave.

      The cranes behing Riverpoint are probably either associated with the whole “Royal George” / Shannon St / Bank of Scotland re-development, or possibly connected to the re-development of the site where the Savoy used to stand. Will have to go down and check!

    • #753382
      hailtothechimp
      Participant

      A few more shots. Not too much new development to be seen but interesting panoramas all the same. Taken fron the top floor of the Clarion Hotel:

      http://static.flickr.com/23/31561765_c0d4af1969_b.jpg

      http://static.flickr.com/21/31562360_df2a4cc70e_b.jpg

    • #753383
      dave123
      Participant

      be careful when reading over thepic it could crack the webpasge 😀

      I say knock it down, horray/ :p

    • #753384
      dave123
      Participant

      Thanks again for those pics and Info.

      I’m going to make my business one day to go up either the Riverpoint or the Clarion hotel 😎

      I must say i like the red looking building mid left on the first pic (Clarion lookout)
      It looks like a parisian or victorian style building . quite a character 🙂

      here’s more pictures any comments on them?
      The Cresent

      Georges st , by the Royal George building

      Georges st by the old cruises hotel, wher the street stands today

      another pic of the street black & white version

    • #753385