well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?
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@Tuborg wrote:
As for the Colbert station query, the only image I’ve seen has been in the window of the Bus Eireann ticket office on Thomas Street, not sure if its still there though, there dosent appear to be anything on the web!
Tuborg if you actually look closely at the picture on that window you’ll see it says Tralee on the roof of the station. Kinda stupid advertising it in Limerick!
City Council sets out stall on Crescent
By Gerard Fitzgibbon (Limerick Leader)
THE landmark extension of the Crescent Shopping Centre will break retail guidelines and place massive strain local infrastructure, according to Limerick City Council.
The proposed 10,000 square metre expansion of the Dooradoyle outlet, which is to be anchored by Limerick’s first ever Marks & Spencer store, has become a new battleground in the row over the extension of the city boundary. This week county councillors launched a scathing attack on the City Council’s decision to try to block the plans.
City councillors have said that they need to safeguard retail investment in the city centre, but the move has been dismissed by their county counterparts as electioneering.
Full details of City Hall’s planning objection 😎 released this Thursday raise several questions about the viability of the new development. The document, which is signed by city manager Tom Mackey, states that the extension will be:
- Contrary to retail guidelines
- Detrimental to the protection of the city centre
- Contrary to the local area plan
- Likely to cause traffic congestion and generate traffic hazards
It’s typical and it’s not what we need,†he said.
Tuborg, it’s about time that the city council (elected councillors and civil servants) put the interests of the city centre first against an extension of the Crescent Shopping Centre at this time for the common good of the entire city.
The mind-set of county councillors Butler and Wade is a laughable farce! These elected “clowns” have lived comfortably in / off the city and blatantly ignore their real mandate which is the running of the county proper! The sooner they relocate the county hall from the city to say Newcastlewest, the quicker they will refocus their attention on just running the county only. By the way a neglected west Limerick electorate will be off-loaded to north Kerry for the next general election.
In my opinion, the city boundary should be extended as far out to prevent any repeat of what happened in the last fifty years of city planning! The rezoning of farmland for future city development must rest entirely with the city planning department! Councillors Butler and Wade must decide where they want to serve i.e. city or county.
This is nonsense talk of not going ahead with the extension.
When it will create more jobs and bring more people to the region. I fail to see how this is bad for the city when the shopping centre has been here for the last 30 years. Limerick city centre suffered because of high rates and the over supply of retail warehouseses built all over the outskirts.
Roads are been upgraded in the plan, Extra parking will be provided.The Crencent will become a national shopping centre. Something to be proud of. Its great to see it go ahead, It has gone through major revamps since over the last few decades..
Limerick people have been crying out for years for a Marks and Spencers.
Now there is finally planning permission for one at the Crescent S.C. After all theses years of improper planning between both councils,they manage to create a fuss over this. It’s actually pathetic to think of it. The mark and spenser store is a large store alright but there is only a few extra units built adjacent to the S.C. I just cannot see this affecting the city.The Crescent is well a established S.C in Limericks biggest suburb. It attracts shoppers from outside the Limerick region. Its also serves the citys largest suburb Dooradoyle. It has never really affected the city centre retailers, it has been here for too many years now. I think many people from outside Limerick who shop in the Crescent will also shop in the city centre also, if they have come a long distance. Its up to the limerick city council to make the city centre more attractive to retailers.
Limerick city centrewill still thrive even if a M&S is built in the Crescent its getting a
second M&S store in the city centre. It has been confirmed by M&S that they want a city centre store. So it comes to the only argument from the city council and thats the traffic problem the development may cause.The City council have some nerve to say this, when the city council are responsible for the worst traffic blackspot in the city Parkway RO. They allowed the building of many retail parks with no new infastructure in place at all. They allowed massive retail developments off the childers road to go ahead with minimul road upgrades. Childers road is now choked. The city council have a terrible record on fixing traffic problems, in fact they made traffic flows alot worse. So trhey better leave that topic.
They are leveling the Parkway S.C soon and replacing with high density developments!, will the roads be upgraded? Will the city council ever clean there room first before they point the finger at someone else’s
on a sIde note for the city council At least the county council are radically improving the surrounding roads and upgrading the Dooradoyle road junction etc.
The sourthern ring road flys by the Crescent, and ir’s very possible that private investers could build a few slips onto the New ring road in the future. Just a thought, as another alternative for traffic using the side roads to and from theshopping centre
Its only M&S and a few retail units ffs.
The Crescent will soon be in the limerick city council agglomeration in a few months, when the current boundary proposal goes ahead BTW I’m sure they it wouldn’t be appealing for the enlargment then.It’s amazng that the Mahon shopping centre and the Wilton S.C went ahead in Cork, with little problems you know.I just hope to god, that the city and council become one athourity and hopefully new council members are relected, to keep this city under one roof, This city is not in good hands at the moment
@CologneMike wrote:
Tuborg, it’s about time that the city council (elected councillors and civil servants) put the interests of the city centre first against an extension of the Crescent Shopping Centre at this time for the common good of the entire city.
The mind-set of county councillors Butler and Wade is a laughable farce! These elected “clowns” have lived comfortably in / off the city and blatantly ignore their real mandate which is the running of the county proper! The sooner they relocate the county hall from the city to say Newcastlewest, the quicker they will refocus their attention on just running the county only. By the way a neglected west Limerick electorate will be off-loaded to north Kerry for the next general election.
In my opinion, the city boundary should be extended as far out to prevent any repeat of what happened in the last fifty years of city planning! The rezoning of farmland for future city development must rest entirely with the city planning department! Councillors Butler and Wade must decide where they want to serve i.e. city or county.
I couldnt agree more, the city boundary should indeed encompass the whole Limerick urban area. How some people refuse to believe that areas such as Raheen, Dooradoyle, Castletroy and much of Caherdavin dont naturally belong to Limerick city is beyond me. The city boundary as it stands just isnt sustainable and its little wonder that the city has developed in such a disjointed and unco-ordinated manner over the course of the last 50 years or so! Limerick city is just too small to be governed by 2 Limerick local authorities and as far as Im concerned a city boundary should expand along with the city, within reason of course.
Cllr Eddie Wade is one of the biggest dinosaurs I’ve come across in a long time, he couldnt secure a nomination for the last general election so now he’s just trying to keep himself in the news with a few regular rants! The Limerick city suburbs are a huge cash cow for Limerick County Council and they will not give them up without a fight, they are in direct competition with the City Council in a bid to secure commercial rates and I think its a well known fact that limerick County Council wont turn down any development that will guarantee them some cold hard cash! Unfortunately they couldnt care less if the city centre degenerated into a ghost town as long as they were raking it in! One city councillor put it fairly well during the week when he described the County Councils attitude to planning in the boundary area as “laissez fair at best” Thats good local government for you!:rolleyes:
@Tuborg wrote:
The city boundary as it stands just isnt sustainable and its little wonder that the city has developed in such a disjointed and unco-ordinated manner over the course of the last 50 years or so! Limerick city is just too small to be governed by 2 Limerick local authorities and as far as Im concerned a city boundary should expand along with the city, within reason of course.
The Limerick city suburbs are a huge cash cow for Limerick County Council and they will not give them up without a fight, they are in direct competition with the City Council in a bid to secure commercial rates and I think its a well known fact that limerick County Council wohe countynt turn down any development that will guarantee them some cold hard cash!
While I agree with everything you’ve said, but I think both city and the county council are doing a very bad job in running of the city. You swear the city was in two different countries.
Its reaching to crisis point at this stage. When one would see two authorities in the one city having to compete each other. The map just shows how irregular this city is sprawling….
Note: that map is at least 7 years old, the sprawl is even uglier now thanks to google earth.
Hi Dave good to hear from you.
I personally find the objection to the planned extension of the Crescent Shopping Centre, presents the best opportunity to put into the public domain the serious problems of an under achieving city, in part caused by three local authorities running it.
Limerick is a small city with a population of around 100.000 people. The planning objection to the extension (M&S) will add the needed urgency to escalate the necessity to solve the city’s overriding dilemma i.e. we need only one local authority.
Dave, I would have to differ with you in that you say the city centre has not commercially suffered to the shopping centres.
Best index to highlight this are the rental rates of retail shops in the city centre are lower than those in the suburbs. Unique only to Limerick City!
Alone the decision by M&S to place their large store at the Crescent Shopping Centre instead of locating it in the city centre speaks volumes for itself! Their token offer to open a smaller food outlet at the Opera Centre could be nothing more than a tactical move to get their larger store through the planning process.
Apart from Cruises Street, traditional shopping streets like William Street have seen only stagnation in the last twenty years or so. Grocery trade once brought thousands of people on a daily basis into the city centre, now one sees only two grocery outlets i.e. a scaled down version of Dunnes Stores on Henry Street and a rather low key Tescos in Arthur’s Quay.
You are indeed right to say that Limerick consumers have been waiting years for a M&S store to open. Therefore much more so the concerns for the city centre as such a store will act as a magnet puller.
An extension to the Crescent Centre on the Cork side, the on-going construction of the Parkway Valley Centre on the Dublin side and the on-going construction of the Coonagh Centre on the Galway side of the city could end up eating a lot of trade away from the city centre.
These centres are mainly accessed by cars. Nobody for example in Janesboro is going to hop on a bus into town first and then take a second bus to M&S at the Crescent. They will all drive there.:(
There will be serious traffic congestion on the so called Dooradoyle Link Road. This Link road runs in part through a housing estate. In fact when one leaves the N20 Dual carriageway in the direction of the Crescent Shopping Centre you could easily end up in a cul-de-sac (Cedar Downs) just after the first roundabout.
Are you speculating on a rear entrance to the Crescent Shopping Centre? It would mean crossing the raiway line twice and then linking up with the narrow Greenfields road (Old Crescent Rugby Grounds). See map
Incidentally when the Rossbrien interchange is finished, the slip road (Quality Hotel / former Krups factory) to the N7 / N20 will no longer be allowed to access it. I wonder will they link this slip road then to the Greenfields road (Old Crescent Rugby Grounds).
dave 123 I think you’re being strangely seduced by a British chain store! Many of the points you make are completely wrong!
@dave123 wrote:
Roads are been upgraded in the plan, Extra parking will be provided.The Crencent will become a national shopping centre. Something to be proud of. Its great to see it go ahead, It has gone through major revamps since over the last few decades..
Its a SHOPPING CENTRE not one of the wonders of the world, dont get too excited!:p
The Crescent is well a established S.C in Limericks biggest suburb. It attracts shoppers from outside the Limerick region. Its also serves the citys largest suburb Dooradoyle. It has never really affected the city centre retailers, it has been here for too many years now. I think many people from outside Limerick who shop in the Crescent will also shop in the city centre also, if they have come a long distance. Its up to the limerick city council to make the city centre more attractive to retailers.
Yes it is up to the city council to make the city centre a more attractive place for retail and they are belatedly doing this, I think anyone can see that the pedestrianisation and re-modelling projects have vastly improved the city centre with many new retailers being attracted, theres also been a huge amount of redevelopment along with the refurbishment of many buildings especially on Thomas Street. Unfortunately the City Councils attempts to improve the city centre are being constantly undermined by ill thought out planning decisions by Limerick County Council. Its yet another reason why we need a co-ordinated approach to planning in Limerick and that means 1 local authority running the city not 2 competing for business and squabbling like children in the school playground
The City council have some nerve to say this, when the city council are responsible for the worst traffic blackspot in the city Parkway RO. They allowed the building of many retail parks with no new infastructure in place at all. They allowed massive retail developments off the childers road to go ahead with minimul road upgrades. Childers road is now choked. The city council have a terrible record on fixing traffic problems, in fact they made traffic flows alot worse. So trhey better leave that topic.
When was the last time you were down here? What about the Dooradoyle link road? do you think that works well? What about the debacle that was the St Nessans road improvement scheme and the bus lane that goes nowhere! Or what about the Ballysimon interchange that they are skillfully trying to sort out with traffic lights! Or even the 1km stretch from the Parkway to the Groody roundabout that is now plagued by traffic lights and countless junctions as a result of poor planning by you guessed it Limerick County Council, I cant wait until the Parkway valley sc is completed, it should be all fun and games then!:mad:
on a sIde note for the city council At least the county council are radically improving the surrounding roads and upgrading the Dooradoyle road junction etc.
Incorrect, it is a private developer who is proposing a revamp of that junction, nothing to do with the County Council!
The sourthern ring road flys by the Crescent, and ir’s very possible that private investers could build a few slips onto the New ring road in the future. Just a thought, as another alternative for traffic using the side roads to and from theshopping centre
Putting another junction on the Southern ring road defeats the whole purpose of the road, which is to provide traffic on a national primary route with an efficient way around Limerick city and on to other destinations. Putting in extra juctions decreases the efficiency of the road and also makes it more attractive for short trips which have a negative impact on traffic flow.
The Crescent will soon be in the limerick city council agglomeration in a few months, when the current boundary proposal goes ahead BTW I’m sure they it wouldn’t be appealing for the enlargment then.
Im not sure where you got that from, theres absolutely no suggestion that Dooradoyle will be transferred into the control of the City Council. A limited boundary extension involving Coonagh and parts of Caherdavin on the northside is due to go ahead next month!
It’s amazng that the Mahon shopping centre and the Wilton S.C went ahead in Cork, with little problems you know.]
Have you ever been to Mahon point Dave? Anyone from Cork will tell you that the mahon interchange is totally unsuitable for the volume of traffic it carries and experiences regular problems, again due to short sighted planning!
@Tuborg wrote:
When was the last time you were down here? What about the Dooradoyle link road? do you think that works well? What about the debacle that was the St Nessans road improvement scheme and the bus lane that goes nowhere! Or what about the Ballysimon interchange that they are skillfully trying to sort out with traffic lights! Or even the 1km stretch from the Parkway to the Groody roundabout that is now plagued by traffic lights and countless junctions as a result of poor planning by you guessed it Limerick County Council, I cant wait until the Parkway valley sc is completed, it should be all fun and games then!:mad:
Incorrect, it is a private developer who is proposing a revamp of that junction, nothing to do with the County Council! !
Oops, sorry my bad. Well if it does go ahead, the county council should be responsible for building a proper public transport hub here automatically if this extension does go ahead as planned on top of the road upgrades.
And also it does seem like an cool plan with the new proposed layout of a street adjacent to the centre, it does seem exciting to me I must admit.
@Tuborg wrote:
Putting another junction on the Southern ring road defeats the whole purpose of the road, which is to provide traffic on a national primary route with an efficient way around Limerick city and on to other destinations. Putting in extra juctions decreases the efficiency of the road and also makes it more attractive for short trips which have a negative impact on traffic flow.
1.Well just city facing slips only for traffic to access the the shopping centre from the cityside would be sufficient. It’s an idea anyway,
It will be needed, knowing the fact the the the Roxboro exit will be discarded when the new Rossbrien cloverleaf is built. plus it would seriously relieve traffic.
2.This section of road we are talking about is running closest to the city i.e Between city centre and Dooradoyle. There is no access for traffic here, apart from the Dock road interchange. Which will be hell.
3. I want to point out that the Parkway road was funded by the NRA. The city councils land does extend to that of the parkway retail park, the parkway shopping centre and the childers road retail park agglomeration.
The city council fcuked this up not the the county council. The city council came along and decorated the roads with traffic lights.
As we speak there are putting more in now. This is comedy you know.Both authorities are a joke in a lot of aspects you have mistaken the county council on the parkway madness.The Parkway vally complex is on the county grounds lands. my point is there both are just as much responsible for the planning mess of this city. and they both squabble over it, is just unbelievable. Your right it will so much fun when this opens onto a gridlocked road. Yay.
I agree with pretty much everything else you’ve said though.
@Tuborg wrote:
Im not sure where you got that from, theres absolutely no suggestion that Dooradoyle will be transferred into the control of the City Council. A limited boundary extension involving Coonagh and parts of Caherdavin on the northside is due to go ahead next month!
I thought it was all of it was going ahead except the sections that are in county clare. Oops sorryagain. Eventually crosses my toes that the boundary extension will follow through.
@CologneMike wrote:
Hi Dave good to hear from you.]
Thanks CologneMike.
@CologneMike wrote:
There will be serious traffic congestion on the so called Dooradoyle Link Road. This Link road runs in part through a housing estate. In fact when one leaves the N20 Dual carriageway in the direction of the Crescent Shopping Centre you could easily end up in a cul-de-sac (Cedar Downs) just after the first roundabout.
Are you speculating on a rear entrance to the Crescent Shopping Centre? It would mean crossing the raiway line twice and then linking up with the narrow Greenfields road (Old Crescent Rugby Grounds). See map
Incidentally when the Rossbrien interchange is finished, the slip road (Quality Hotel / former Krups factory) to the N7 / N20 will no longer be allowed to access it. I wonder will they link this slip road then to the Greenfields road (Old Crescent Rugby Grounds).
Well I would like to see it go ahead on the grounds that
A The Limerick county council provide a public transport hub here as part of the extension.
B A new road from the rear and over the railway to link with the greenfields road
C. The old cork/Dooradolye juntion been upgraded, and the existing dooradyle road remodelled
D a possible reopening of the adjacent railway. to ambitous ?Then im all yes for it.
All these problems are direct result of having two authorities running a city of 100,000.
@PoxyShamrock wrote:
Tuborg if you actually look closely at the picture on that window you’ll see it says Tralee on the roof of the station. Kinda stupid advertising it in Limerick!
I didnt realise that! Although Bus Eireann do employ the same London based architects to design most if not all of their projects, they are also responsible for the Colbert station development so the plans should be broadly similar!
Below is an image from the Limerick Leader, not much good but seems to be all thats available!
What gets me down most about the Crescent SC is that it has become the de facto main shopping street – if you can call the main mall a street – for Limerick city.
A girl working in the Body Shop said they are doing 4 times more business in the Crescent since they moved there from the corner of O Connell st / Thomas st.
I believe M&S have said in the past that they prefer high quality city centre locations… not this time seemingly.
And while Im on my rant – Ed Walsh is a Cork man who for nearly 30 years has worked for this region – he doesnt care about the city/council squabble !..or Eddie Wade…. the only point that matters is that the city needs to seen externally as a major centre – and the first and basic measure is population. We all know that the city and suburbs together are roughly 100,000 people. but the city population is 52,000 and shrinking. I would argue that if we hadnt been the ‘3rd city’ ..Shannon Airport , Ardnacrusha and the cement factory would never have been located in this region… All of Limerick..ALL!!..as well as most of Clare and North Tipperary need Limerick to be seen as the 3rd city of this country… hell..lets name it MidWest city if it makes people feel better..
but remember.. when your eating your cornflakes tomorrow , your local post is sorted in Cork ..and the nearest Breast check clinic is in Galway…..Was reading in the business section of the Sunday Times that there is a 12 storey building planned for the site of the Smyths store on Henry St. I’ve looked for the article online but can’t seem to find it. I presume any building would look to incorporate the Youth Services building (the one storey building next to Smyths).
I scanned the article.. if its illegal to scan / post here will someone please advise and I will remove..
Article in Last weeks Limerick Independent……It is beyond belief that Corbally, gets absolutely no mention in a plan to alleviate traffic congestion in limerick, when it is possibly the worst bottleneck of the entire city.
Corbally bottleneck left out of radical plan to implement bus routes throughout Limerick
Written by Staff Reporter
Wednesday, 20 February 2008Limerick could suffer from major upheaval and traffic disruption if a radical new plan to implement bus routes across the city goes ahead, according to sceptical city councillors.
Some of the complaints voiced by representatives at a Special Council Meeting last Thursday included the loss of residential parking and the fact that traffic blackspot Corbally was completely left out of the €15 million ‘Green Route’ plans.According to the council’s report on the issue, “Green Routes are regulated traffic management measures designed to provide priority for the efficient movement of commuters, shoppers and tourists by busâ€.
They aim to “improve the frequency and reliability of bus services, provide for improved bus service expansion, introduce new and improved pedestrian crossing facilities and provide better facilities for cyclistsâ€.
Councillors agreed that the plans made sense in principle and complimented the council’s efforts but objected strenuously to bus lanes being introduced in particular areas.
They approved of better cycling facilities and faster, more efficient public transport. Plans for the Southern Corridor include an inbound bus lane on the Ballinacurra Road and inbound and outbound lanes on O’Connell Avenue while the Western Corridor includes an inbound lane from the Cratloe Road and Sexton Street and another from the Ennis Road.
The Eastern Corridor would include an outbound bus lane on the Childers Road, a contra flow bus lane along the Kilmallock Road at Bengal Terrace and an inbound bus lane along Mulgrave Street.
Cllr Diarmuid Scully said that any bus lanes on Mulgrave Street would result in the loss of parking while Cllr Maria Byrne raised the same concern about the Southern Corridor particularly given the amount of businesses along the route.
Cllr Joe Leddin said that it was not plausible for people to knock in their walls and create their own drives because their parking space has become a bus lane.
@Griff wrote:
I scanned the article.. if its illegal to scan / post here will someone please advise and I will remove..
Hi Griff, thanks also for the scanned article :cool:, but you nearly strained my eyesight so here the link to a larger version. Scan#1 Scan#2.
Sure there are issues of copyright, plagiarism etc. I personally find it good to state the owner of the material, who wrote / created it, date and if possible give a url or address.
City council opposition may jeopardise 450 M&S jobs
Irish Examiner (By Jimmy Woulfe 25 February 2008)
THE owners of the Crescent Shopping Centre warned yesterday that opposition by Limerick City Council to a giant Marks & Spencer store at the Dooradoyle complex could force the giant retailer to Galway with the potential loss of 450 jobs.
M&S has chosen Limerick ahead of Galway for its anchor store for the greater west of Ireland region.
While Limerick County Council, which controls the Dooradoyle suburb, has given its blessing, Limerick City Council has moved to stop the development, saying it will hit city centre shopping.
Conor Kenny, the head of the Cloncourt Group — owners of the Crescent Shopping Centre — issued a stark warning yesterday that the city council objection could drive M&S to Galway.
Mr Kenny said: “This objection is a big kick in the teeth to us. We are looking to move forward with the county council. This €60 million project would create 450 full-time jobs and 300 during construction. For years M&S have been in the market trying to come into Limerick. As a strategic decision, M&S have decided they want an anchor store in the Crescent Shopping Centre. They might now decide to put their large anchor store in Galway rather than Limerick and transfer this investment to Galway.â€
Limerick City Council maintains the development would skew proper and balanced development of the greater city area on both sides of the boundary.
Limerick City Manager Tom Mackey & claims the development contravenes retail guidelines for the Limerick area and would be detrimental to the city centre. He also claims it goes against the local area plan and is likely to generate traffic hazards.
Former Mayor of Limerick Councillor Joe Leddin has also &said huge suburban developments are being approved by the county authority without any discussion with the city council or residents.
This €60 million project would create 450 full-time jobs and 300 during construction.
That’s a fair enough point Conor but you could jeopardise the €250 million Opera Shopping Centre with it’s 1000 jobs in return! That’s a great trade-off!:mad:
@bonzer1again wrote:
Article in Last weeks Limerick Independent……It is beyond belief that Corbally, gets absolutely no mention in a plan to alleviate traffic congestion in limerick, when it is possibly the worst bottleneck of the entire city.
“Cllr Joe Leddin said that it was not plausible for people to knock in their walls and create their own drives because their parking space has become a bus lane.”
Someone needs to inform Cllr Joe Leddin that those are not “their parking spaces” but are in fact the public roads that all members of society have paid for. Roads are for moving people and goods about the place, the key word being moving. So long as we let people who want both front and back gardens and then free parking on the public highway at the expense of people who want to use the road then more people will think local politicos are eejits.
True for you Dan, I dont know about other areas but I hear the Ennis Rd residents are “up in arms”. I could safely say that there is not one house between the Davin and Sarsfield Bridge that does not have off street parking whether it be a driveway or rear access. They just could not be bothered. We will never change the mind set into utilising public transport until it is fast and efficient. Its provision should be made a priority.
Former Central Cinema Bedford Row
Work is continuing at an impressive rate on the site of the former cinema on Bedford Row, the new facade is virtually complete with the cladding and glazing now in place. The facade of the old methodist chapel dating from the 1840s has been retained behind the new frontage, although its difficult to tell from the picture just how visible it will be. The new building will house retail space on the ground floor with offices overhead.
Image from tippryan at the Limerick Blogger
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