johnglas
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alonso: ‘Events, dear boy, events.’ (Harold Macmillan, allegedly.) I think they probably had an economy in 1900 (with a city about half the size), and they had congestion and traffic and trams and just as many pedestrians. And, ah yes, aesthetics and a sense of townscape – how primitive.
Cities need a sense of themselves and developments have to conform to what that sense is; if it’s all just laissez-faire and a shrug of the shoulders, then you’ll get the clutter modern cities (at least on these islands) suffer from.It’s amazing how elegant and uncluttered these old pics look; 60 years of planning and more professional architectural education have not really moved us forward…
St Vibiana’s (as was) makes a great-looking disco; does OL of the Angels make a great cathedral? It’s an impressive-looking space, but it is a monument to hubris rather than devotion or good taste. (A cardinal-archbishop with hubris – surely not?) Well done for the exposition, apelles.
It all illustrates the folly of absolute monarchy vs even a hint of democracy.Now that the smoke has begun to clear from St Mel’s and we know it wasn’t arson, rather an ‘act of God’ (ironically), we need to plan for the furure. The remarkably erudite, calm and civilised letter from the Bishop of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise is a good starting point. However, this is a national, rather than local, loss and a national appeal for funds should be launched (yes, even in a recession); without a vision, the people perish, or just mope about.
The reconstruction should be used as a demonstration project in how to recover some of the lost (?) skills in building and decoration exemplified by the neo-classical and renaissance styles as in St Mel’s. There is no room here for any kind of modernist interpretation; it has to be a contemporary, but sympathetic, remodelling. As Prax says, worse could be done than looking at the work of Duncan Stroik and seeing that there is some life left (to put it mildly) in the neo-renaissance approach. However, even more valuably, the restoration could be undertaken on the ‘atelier’ or ‘chantier’ principle – dedicated craftspeople learning skills on the job (including local apprentices and trainees) and devoted entirely to this project over,say, five years. (FAS, are you listening?) The skills learned would be precious and transferable; there is,after all, a huge market in unwrecking many churches all over Ireland and beyond. Out of the disaster of St Mel’s could come some long-term good.Amen (as it were) to all that! Wasn’t meaning to cast aspersions (much), but someone has to take the rap and it’s not all down merely to former building techniques. Let’s, however, wait and see.
Incidentally, haven’t all you ‘non-believers’ heard of the power of myth? Even if it’s all just a big parable, it sure as Hell (sic) beats a belief in Tescopolis.I think the words are ‘an abomination of desolation’ – just too sad for words really; an irreparable loss.
You keep hoping this was not arson, but – even if it wasn’t – can the diocese be uncensuerd because of what appears to have been criminal neglect of even elementary precautions (e.g. a smoke alarm, for God’s sake – literally!)? Where were An Taisce and the Heritage Dept? Did nobody in Longford even care about this building?
‘…was painted cream or magnolia…’ ffs, this is Main St Dublin! Reminds me of the rebuilt Plymouth after the Luftwaffe had bombed the original; clearly, DCC doesn’t need the bombers…
Paul: the same thing was done with the remains of the former St Andrew’s Cathedral in Dumfries, destroyed by fire in the early 1960s. I’m not at all convinced that the result is as happy as you suggest; the new church (now just a parish church) is a good enough effort for the mid-1960s but still looks incongruous in its setting.
In Longford, any new church would have to be ‘contemporary’ (by definition), but what does a ‘contemporary church’ look like? Is there any successful modern template as numinous as St Mel’s was? I doubt it.
Unfortunately, I can’t upload any photos, but there’s agood set at www,standrewsdumfries.co.uk.
Browsing the pics, I have to say it has matured very well, but I’ve not seen it in the flesh for a long time, so can’t say whether they are flattering or not.The simple fact is that there was a fetish for inner-city road-widening in the 1950s/60s; just be thankful not as much of it was done as proposed. Its successor was the urban motorway, which has devastated this city (I was just noticing the baleful effects last night); at least you were spared that.
Keep your road engineers in a dark cupboard and only very rarely let them out.Graham: Just to repeat last year’s New Year greetings. Your righteous indignation shames us all into getting more concerned and involved. Pity it has to be exercised so comprehensively in the first place. As if the world in general isn’t gloomy enough.
This is truly a shocking image of desolation; although it looks terrible, we need to remember that great buildings have been restored from war damage, often in a time of straitened economic conditions. So, the answer is: don’t hang back hoping for better times, get on with it. Agree with apelles about the old high altar and pulpit; the amount of ‘pressure’ may not be as great as you might imagine. The climate (and fashion) is changing. However, Mr Carroll or his stylistic confreres should be allowed nowhere near it.
Does anyone yet know how the fire started?PVC: points taken in general, but the organisation of the church tends to be undemocratic and discrete – most congregations don’t know what the state of the finances is because in general there is no accountability. Agreed that the financing of these buildings has to fall on the wider community (that was in part my point), but the wider community can finance them only if they are well managed and their administration is transparent.
Cathedrals are seen as slightly bigger parish churches; their historical and architectural merit is only incidental to their function as a parish church. The bishop is the PP and the ‘administrator’ is the bishop’s creature; the bishop has wider concerns in the diocese, so no-one is really ‘responsible’ for the cathedral.
Whatever about all this, the whole thing is a disaster for what looks like an elegant and historic building.Just too sad for words. If it is to be restored, then you can only hope that some attempt is made to bring it back to something resembling the pre-Vat II condition.
Does anyone have any pics of the Harry Clarke glass? Was it HC himself or the studio?
This disaster underscores the need foe a review of historic stained glass (sacred and secular), which is incredibly vulnerable to damage from a variety of sources. Can it be protected at all,especially from wind and fire damage? There is also a need for buildings like St Mel’s to have a proper board of management, with access to expert (but disinterested) advice on issues of management and maintenance. If the fire was due to a poorly-maintained boiler, then that is as criminal as arson.apelles:it’s really a shame that they replaced the original vernacular facade; it’s so much better than the bog-standard 1950s ‘romanesque’ current one. There really should be a ‘leave well alone’ syndrome drummed into PPs everywhere (along with much else).
PS Did they really have the brass neck to demolish the georgian house adjacent for that 1950s bit of suburbia? Planning? Conservation?apelles: interesting account and pics; I’m trying to refrain from comments, but that ceiling and dome just leave me speechless (and they spent 1.9m!). Letting loose the local national school on the interior ‘decoration’ hasn’t helped – what’s all that about? Any pics of the current facade?
PS They should just relocate the altar under the baldachino where it should be and remove all the other paper clutter; it actually looks like an interesting stripped-down neoclassical building.GrahamH: with my rapidly declining first-hand experience of the city, I’ve refrained from posting much recently, but need to congratulate you once again on an excoriatingly accurate anlysis of the state of PStE; hope and vision everywhere seem to be taking a holiday at the moment. How can Dublin planners live with themselves?
