reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Devastating fire at St Mel’s Cathedral, Longford.http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/Devasting-fire-at-St-Mel39s.5938802.jp
@apelles wrote:
Devastating fire at St Mel’s Cathedral, Longford.http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/Devasting-fire-at-St-Mel39s.5938802.jp
Devastating news, an absolute crying shame, the loss of such a magnificent ediface , absolutely shocking.
Just too sad for words. If it is to be restored, then you can only hope that some attempt is made to bring it back to something resembling the pre-Vat II condition.
Does anyone have any pics of the Harry Clarke glass? Was it HC himself or the studio?
This disaster underscores the need foe a review of historic stained glass (sacred and secular), which is incredibly vulnerable to damage from a variety of sources. Can it be protected at all,especially from wind and fire damage? There is also a need for buildings like St Mel’s to have a proper board of management, with access to expert (but disinterested) advice on issues of management and maintenance. If the fire was due to a poorly-maintained boiler, then that is as criminal as arson.@johnglas wrote:
There is also a need for buildings like St Mel’s to have a proper board of management, with access to expert (but disinterested) advice on issues of management and maintenance. If the fire was due to a poorly-maintained boiler, then that is as criminal as arson.
John
That is a touch simplistic; look at some of the issues the church has to deal with; falling congregations, recession eating into parishioner dues, the costs of supporting an aging congregation, rising energy prices, maintenance costs a multiple of what they were a couple of decades ago. Even with the best oversight in place you can only manage the funds you have at your disposal.
A truely sad loss but should the issue not be getting the parishioners of the wider archdioses and local government to salvage as much as is possible?
Sadly one fears that as long as the funding situation for the church deteriorates the chances are this will happen again unless the true architectural value of these sites is recognised as being of national importance and not purely the responsibility of the church that created them.
Photograph of one of the windows: http://bit.ly/4WMd1H
PVC: points taken in general, but the organisation of the church tends to be undemocratic and discrete – most congregations don’t know what the state of the finances is because in general there is no accountability. Agreed that the financing of these buildings has to fall on the wider community (that was in part my point), but the wider community can finance them only if they are well managed and their administration is transparent.
Cathedrals are seen as slightly bigger parish churches; their historical and architectural merit is only incidental to their function as a parish church. The bishop is the PP and the ‘administrator’ is the bishop’s creature; the bishop has wider concerns in the diocese, so no-one is really ‘responsible’ for the cathedral.
Whatever about all this, the whole thing is a disaster for what looks like an elegant and historic building.@notjim wrote:
With it has gone some fantastic stain glass.
I’m holding out a little hope that the south transept window may have survived.. there are loads of videos on youtube and from what I’ve seen, that window appears to be one of the few left intact (of course, it could be the outer storm glazing that is apparent).
If any effort of worthwhile restoration is to be undertaken then question of the existence and state of the Cathedral archive immediately arises. And in raising the question, can we hope that it was not stored in the sacristy or in the museum behind the Cathedral?
It would be incredible to envisage for one moment that St. Mel’s Cathedral will be restored to anything like its previous incarnation or former glory..that somehow from the ashes a building as venerable will again arise..I’m not saying its not possible but we have to look at the track record here.
I pray they make good use of & re-instate the original high altar and pulpit which were relegated to the crypt during the Ray Carroll makeover. Though some pressure may have to be applied to achieve this.
This pic is doing the rounds on some chat rooms…You can see how the limestone column to the right has deteriorated from the intense heat of the fire.
@apelles wrote:
It would be incredible to envisage for one moment that St. Mel’s Cathedral will be restored to anything like its previous incarnation or former glory..that somehow from the ashes a building as venerable will again arise..I’m not saying its not possible but we have to look at the track record here.
I pray they make good use of & re-instate the original high altar and pulpit which were relegated to the crypt during the Ray Carroll makeover. Though some pressure may have to be applied to achieve this.This pic is doing the rounds on some chat rooms…You can see how the limestone column to the right has deteriorated from the intense heat of the fire.
Calcification is the official term I believe.. picture seems to be taken though a window in N transept, you can see the sanctuary steps and remains of the ray carroll altar just to the right of the leftmost pillar, with the ambo to the far left. So that means the S transept is straight ahead, if the HC window had blown out, I’d expect to see some daylight in the distance..
Looks like some of the marble panelling has survived on the far walls..
This is truly a shocking image of desolation; although it looks terrible, we need to remember that great buildings have been restored from war damage, often in a time of straitened economic conditions. So, the answer is: don’t hang back hoping for better times, get on with it. Agree with apelles about the old high altar and pulpit; the amount of ‘pressure’ may not be as great as you might imagine. The climate (and fashion) is changing. However, Mr Carroll or his stylistic confreres should be allowed nowhere near it.
Does anyone yet know how the fire started?@johnglas wrote:
This is truly a shocking image of desolation; although it looks terrible, we need to remember that great buildings have been restored from war damage, often in a time of straitened economic conditions. So, the answer is: don’t hang back hoping for better times, get on with it. Agree with apelles about the old high altar and pulpit; the amount of ‘pressure’ may not be as great as you might imagine. The climate (and fashion) is changing. However, Mr Carroll or his stylistic confreres should be allowed nowhere near it.
Does anyone yet know how the fire started?Agreed!
An interesting take from the St. Conleth’s Catholic Heritage Association.http://catholicheritage.blogspot.com/2009/12/majestic-irish-cathedral-destroyed-by.html
The Cathedral itself is a Neo-Classical structure begun in 1840 by Bishop William O’Higgins. The inspiration for the design by Joseph B. Keane was said to be the Madeleine Church in Paris, the Pantheon and St. John Lateran – although he executed a similar design for St. Mary’s in Clonmel.
The cathedral is cruciform consisting of a nave, two transcripts, two aisles and a spacious sanctuary. The nave contains 24 large columns local limestone and windows by the noted Harry Clarke. The original high altar was of French marble. The erection of this building cost £60,000 which was a vast sum to collect during a time of evictions, persecutions and famine.
The completion of St. Mel’s was deferred for ten years due to the effects of the famine. The roof and tower were completed under Dr. Kilduff who succeeded Dr. O’Higgins in 1853. Bishop Kilduff blessed the Cathedral on 24th September, 1856.
Longford Cathedral ‘Before’Under Bishop Woodlock, most noted for his contribution to the cause of the Catholic University, further additions were made and the Solemn Consecration took place on the 19th May, 1893, the fifth-third anniversary of the laying of the foundation stone. The belfrey was completed in 1860 after a design of John Bourke. The portico in 1893 to the design of the great George Ashlin.
Longford Cathedral ‘After’An Taisce, the Irish Heritage Trust, described it thus: “……… St. Mel’s Cathedral, begun to the design of Joseph Keane in 1840. While the portico lacks the sophistication of Keane’s great Dominican Pope’s Quay Church in Cork, the interior, by contrast, is now regarded as noblest of all Irish Classical church interiors. It is designed in the style of an early Christian basilica, with noble Grecian Ionic columns and a curved apse. It also shares the remarkable distinction of being the only major Catholic Church in Ireland to have actually been improved by internal reordering, when the fussy later altar was removed and replaced by a simple modem table altar, which accords harmoniously with the early Christian style of the interior. The tower and portico give a striking approach to the town from Dublin.”
Longford Sanctuary ‘Before’In the 1970s, the noted Cathedral wreckovator, Cathal Cardinal Daly, to whose credit Belfast and some of Armagh Cathedrals’ present state can also be put, was Bishop of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise. The high altar and stalls were removed, leaving the Sanctuary without any clear focus, the present altar being too small to make any visual impact. The insertion of a tapestry to add impact to the ‘President’s Chair’ where the high altar and tabernacle once stood, is singularly ineffective.
Longford Sanctuary ‘After’The words of Desmond, Cardinal Connell, who was Archbishop of Dublin at the time, during an interview with The Sunday Business Post, published on 4th March, 2001. Asked whether he had any plans to build a cathedral in Dublin. (At present, the Anglican Church of Ireland has two cathedrals in the capital – Christ Church, the diocesan cathedral, and St Patrick’s, the national cathedral. The Catholic Church has only a `pro-cathedral’) reresponded: ‘None whatsoever. If I had the wealth of Croesus itself, I would not build a cathedral because liturgy and architecture at the moment are in such confusion that anything that would be built at this stage would be rejected in a very short time.’
The restoration of St. Mel’s is greatly to be hoped for, both a physical and a moral restoration, an Irish Church rising from the ashes.
Bishop Colm O’Reilly, one of only a handful of Irish Bishops to have celebrated the Traditional Latin Mass publicly in recent years, has promised that St. Mel’s will be restored but Bishop O’Reilly is 75 on 11th January, 2010. By that time, there will be three vacant Sees in Ireland (six, depending on your point of view). The question is whether the restoration of Longford Cathedral will be in the hands of another ‘Godfather of Irish Sanctuaries’ or a Bishop after the Holy Father’s own heart. Only time will tell. Qualis Pastor, talis Parochia.I’d never seen this one before..look at the superb sanctuary floor.
Before & after Ashlin’s portico of six pillars & triangular pediment.
The design on the sanctuary floor mosaic is quite similar to that on the sanctuary floor in Cobh Cathedral. Was it designed by Ashlin?
In the wedding photograph, on the right, notice the pulpit the designs for which were recently published on this thread.
The design on the sanctuary floor mosaic is quite similar to that on the sanctuary floor in Cobh Cathedral. Was it designed by Ashlin? As far as I’m aware Ashlin only done external works on the Portico but I’ll try & find out more about that.
Rumors abound that the limestone columns are beyond repair & are apparently not needed to support a new roof..Is this even possible? http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63747235#post63747235
@apelles wrote:
The design on the sanctuary floor mosaic is quite similar to that on the sanctuary floor in Cobh Cathedral. Was it designed by Ashlin? As far as I’m aware Ashlin only done external works on the Portico but I’ll try & find out more about that.
Rumors abound that the limestone columns are beyond repair & are apparently not needed to support a new roof..Is this even possible? http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63747235#post63747235
I’m sure its possible, but the impact would be terrible – something like what happened to the parish church in Dingle, except on a much larger scale. This must not happen! whatever else they do to St Mels, the restoration of the pillars and ceiling are the most essential elements of any restoration.
Can anyone suggest a decent architect the Bishop could work with?
If anything were to be changed.. possibly, the apse could be redesigned to include windows, always thought the place would look so much better if that were the case. Apparently, the original design was a compromise due to the bishop’s ambitious plans for a grandiose residence behind the apse (which was never used for anything other than choir rooms and the museum). In some ways that block at the east end may have been the cathedral’s achille’s heel. Think about any other Irish cathedral, if the sacristy went on fire, the structure is usually so separate from the main body of the church, that the complete devastation we have witnessed in Longford would probably be much less likely..
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