johnglas
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Johnglas agrees that it is a pity that the internal shots of St Joseph’s do not include the sanctuary area: could that be because it has been ‘reordered’ and does not now match the quality of the rest of the building? We hope not. (It’s a delicious irony that St J’s has survived while the upmarket SJ church is now, we believe, closed – not that we would wish any church closed.)
We do not share your enthusiasm for some baroque/rococo pulpits, but it is amazing that Krakow survived WWII intact and that all these gems were preserved. One minor gripe: the magnificent Mariackiego (Catholic>Lutheran>Catholic) would surely now regard itself as being firmly in Gdansk rather than Danzig.Ditto. But there is some intersting stadium architecture… The new Lansdowne looks exciting if eccentric; the real test will be how it integrates with its surrounding suburb (round the edges) and how the crowds react. From a distance (e.g. Grand Canal Harbour) it looks like a magnificent alien spaceship has landed in Woking (cf. War of the Worlds).
Now you’re getting personal… (The Premier League is a bunch of overpaid, terminally self-admiring people who can kick a ball a bit, and…? And you lot over there actually watch it instead of getting a life!)
Oh God; it’s bad enough to be bored by football everywhere else, we now have an extended ‘discussion’ about whether or not you can see the pitch if you stand up, or go on tiptoe, or lean sideways, or stand on somebody’s shoulder….
However, unlike the beautiful game, Gaelic is just a lot of country boys who can’t keep their socks up running madly all over the pitch, knocking lumps out of one another… Never saw the attraction, myself.Prax: maybe not, but these two churches are interesting examples of another ‘type’: not romanesque nor gothic nor baroque, but of a kind of academic classicism often described as ‘cold’ or ‘sterile’ but which in fact is aesthetically very pleasing and has stood the test of time. (I think the activities of the wreckovators can easily be reversed.)
Fascinating background to the ‘Conversion’ mural – it certainly needs to be protected before it is vandalised by accident or design. Is the church still open? I’m reminded of that other great ‘Conversion’, Caravaggio’s in S. Maria del Populo. It was likened to ‘an accident in a blacksmith’s’ because of the prominence given to the horse’s rear end, but along with the crucfixion of St Peter in the matching chapel on the other side of the sanctuary, it is one of the most stunning displays of ecclesiastical artwork anywhere.PS I notice that St Mary’s still has what looks like the ‘original’ altar (from 1820?), which must be a rare survival.
gunter: you certainly don’t get more ‘theatrical’ than that, but all in the best possible taste (give me that over theatrical rococo puplits any day). Is this church officially ‘closed’? That wouls be a real loss and let’s hope an appropriate alternative use can be found for it.
The ancient Greeks certainly did and I seem to remember from my only visit to Athens that there is a recconstruction of a stoa that is brightly coloured, but the colours were reds and blues and golds against that stunning pentelic marble and in bright sunshine, and it all seemed to work. The reds and yellows in St Paul’s might be a bit over the top, but paint can be changed; trick is to avoid the ‘jobbing painter’ or the ‘Schull effect’, which techniques owe more to Technicolor than good taste.apelles: That’s a truly sad tale; everyone should read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists – worth any number of sermons from any number of overwrought Baroque (or should it be Rococo?) pulpits (sorry, Prax). Surely a case of the media overwhelming the message.
There are many out there with poor sight and difficulty with hearing.
dc3: Yes, but you kind of hope they’re not driving buses. This won’t stop until prosecutions follow; any bets?
A real shame (though not about the hotel development); I was in the St George’s Markets in Belfast recently – positively humming and an exemplar for the Iveagh. Another example (along with the Markets near Smithfield) of the almost terminal lack of imagination and not always doing the complicated thing that seems typical of DCC.
Prax: I have to share your sentiment; I’m surprised there wasn’t a Wurlitzer (or equivalent) organ in full technicolor rising through the floor. There should be no objection to ‘secular’ (non-liturgical) concert performance in churches, but there should always be a ‘sacred’ theme and the avoidance of the tacky.
The sanctuary looks both a mess and just plain dull; how much were the parishioners of Dungannon fleeced for this? At least the magnificent reredos was retained and the rest is reversible (at a price of course).Prax: Splendid work as ever on the old interiors of Irish cathedrals; some of them can be crirticised for being ‘fussy’ (or trying to cram in too much), but there is an inherent dignity and quality there. Interesting that Tuam had decent-looking choirstalls, now junked; part of the problem is that ‘administrators’ (sic) and probably some bishops see them as simply big parish churches, subject to the vagaries of fashion.
I’ve just come back from Belfast (on a very brief visit) and admired the very decent refurb job on St Malachy’s (which included junking the ‘Lourdes Grotto’ in the vestibule). Also stuck my head in St George’s – quiet dignity personified (unlike the militarised St Anne’s Cathedral). Administrators could learn much by talking to their equivalent Anglican deans!Gina Quin’s piece was hardly earth-shattering, but was fair enough as far as it went; to my knowledge, parking in the city centre here is generally free Sat and Sun, to encourage the uses she advocates. But I always despair a bit when transport policy is dictated by the needs of suburban earth-mothers with FOUR weans who all need to be transported at the same time to the same destination for the same purpose in some kind of scaled-down tank. Why?
fearg: thanks for those images; I was particularly intrigued by Armagh. These must be very early photographs, since the ceiling (a particular glory of the present building) is completely undecorated. Also, the sanctuary fittings precede those which were so crudely vandalised before the most recent (and a bit timid) restoration (of sorts). So, Armagh has had FOUR sanctuary fit-outs in its history (a bit like fussy housewives and new kitchens). I wonder who profited from flogging-off all the junked marble and whether any of this was done in consultation with the long-suffering (and no doubt silently despairing) diocesans of Armagh who had to pay for it all.
Great steeples: Salisbury and the surprising and majestic St Walburg’s (I kid you not) in Preston. St W’s is best seen form the railway as you’re hurtling north; it’s a breathtaking sight (it’s unfortunately threatened with closure).
Pic is from Places on Line; Salisbury is well enough known.searbh: My recollection of this practice is that it isn’t at all accidental and has deep theological roots. As many (but not all!) medieval churches were cruciform (cross-shaped) in imitation of Calvary, so the nave was seen as Christ’s body, the transepts as his outstretched arms and the choir as his head, inclined to one side after death. Perhaps a better expert than me can give you a fuller explanation, but that’s how I’ve always understood this ‘misalignment’.
gunter: Torphichen’s well worth a trip, if not a mass! (It’s in a quite Prod part of West Lothian.) As for Mr Myers – a ranter and I thought he was grossly unfair to Liam McCormick – you can crit his style, but many of his churches are an effort to achieve a ‘new vernacular’ for his times (although from what I’ve seen in illustration the interiors are a bit bare and disappointing, if dramatic).
Prax: it’s a splendid pile (but note the seigneurial-looking abbey buildings, hence the Revolution), but the spire is very, well, English – reminiscent of a parish church in the Midlands?
Enjoyed Kevin Myres’s rant, but ‘…the Eucharist, being literally (sic) the body and blood of Jesus Christ’ is just bad theology and his contention that all true Christian churches were cruciform is just plain wrong. (Most pre-1829 churches were rectangular or T-shaped.) No arguments from me about the thrust of his atricle, though.
