reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@johnglas wrote:

. . . his contention that all true Christian churches were cruciform is just plain wrong. (Most pre-1829 churches were rectangular or T-shaped.)

. . . and the early crusader churches of the Hospitallers and the Templars were round! (not Torphichen unfortunately johnglas, nor Kilmainham, as far as we know!)

I take it the basilica isn’t Christian in Kevin Myers world!

searbh: My recollection of this practice is that it isn’t at all accidental and has deep theological roots. As many (but not all!) medieval churches were cruciform (cross-shaped) in imitation of Calvary, so the nave was seen as Christ’s body, the transepts as his outstretched arms and the choir as his head, inclined to one side after death. Perhaps a better expert than me can give you a fuller explanation, but that’s how I’ve always understood this ‘misalignment’.

gunter: Torphichen’s well worth a trip, if not a mass! (It’s in a quite Prod part of West Lothian.) As for Mr Myers – a ranter and I thought he was grossly unfair to Liam McCormick – you can crit his style, but many of his churches are an effort to achieve a ‘new vernacular’ for his times (although from what I’ve seen in illustration the interiors are a bit bare and disappointing, if dramatic).

@johnglas wrote:

Prax: it’s a splendid pile (but note the seigneurial-looking abbey buildings, hence the Revolution), but the spire is very, well, English – reminiscent of a parish church in the Midlands?

That the spire should look “English” is not that surprising since we are in Poitou – a part that made its influence felt in England. What is interesting about the spire -and perhaps no so visible from the pictures – is the fleureon work.

St sevin dur Gartempe, the spire

thanks johnglas and gunter for pointing me in the right direction

St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork

The heritage Council of Ireland under the Significant Places of Worship Grant Scheme has made an allottment of some Euro 70,000 to the Cobh Cathedral Restoration Fund which had applied for a grant of Euro 120,000. The grant ie earmarked for repairs to the south arcade and clerestory following the collapse of masonery on Christmas eve 2007. The consultants who have been retained are Chris Southgate and Associates.

It will be recalled that the collapse of the masonery in the south arcade was caused by water ingress following the replacement of the roof during the last “restoration” campaign for which the Heritage Council of Ireland also made a grant of £250,000 but do not appear to have made any check to ensure that such public funds were spent in the best interest of the building or, indeed, to the best advantage of the general public. In the present public financial crisis, can we expect that the public interest will be properly served by ensuring that the works which have to be carried out will indeed not only be to best conservation standard but, perhaps more to the point, of a level commensurate with excellence of the fabric and workmanship of Cobh Cathedral?

It is also heartening to see that public funds can be made available by a public body to a private entity such as Cobh Cathedral Restoration Steering Committee which thought nothing of squandering very considerable sums of money on professional fees in its stubborn attempt to bulldoze through a scheme of wreckage on the building they are supposed to be restoring – and while that private entity still has considerable funds available on deposit as can be seen from its returns to the Companies Registration Office- and whose prospects of raising further funds from the general public are rather gloomy in view of the questions that can be raised about its past record. Did someone say that we had a recession? Or, is the government also about to institute an architectural/heritage/cultural equivalant of NAMA?

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Grants/Architecture/Significant_Places_of_Worship/Significant_Places_of_Public_Worship_projects_2009.pdf

The National Library of Ireland has an extensive archive of photography online. I thought I’d post some links to various buildings discussed on this thread:

Armagh Cathedral:
http://tinyurl.com/ndegde
http://tinyurl.com/kup5dx
http://tinyurl.com/m4at8k
http://tinyurl.com/llllnz

Cobh Cathedral:
http://tinyurl.com/m9ffww

Monaghan Cathedral:
http://tinyurl.com/l9z99r

Consecration of Mullingar Cathedral:
http://tinyurl.com/m55uhe

and that is only scratching ths surface!

fearg: thanks for those images; I was particularly intrigued by Armagh. These must be very early photographs, since the ceiling (a particular glory of the present building) is completely undecorated. Also, the sanctuary fittings precede those which were so crudely vandalised before the most recent (and a bit timid) restoration (of sorts). So, Armagh has had FOUR sanctuary fit-outs in its history (a bit like fussy housewives and new kitchens). I wonder who profited from flogging-off all the junked marble and whether any of this was done in consultation with the long-suffering (and no doubt silently despairing) diocesans of Armagh who had to pay for it all.

Praxiteles is inclined to think that teh Armagh photographs represent the interior at two stages: an early sanctuary (provisional one) deliniated by wooden altar rails and the (possibly) the 1904 rails whch do not hsow the High Altar.
Care should be taken about canonizing anything of the earlier photographs since they represent the building still in fieri and without having reached its completion.

WHile it its arguable that the 1904 arrqngement may have been stylistically a little OTT, at the same time NOTHING could excuse the vandalism practices on it by McCormack and the awful neo-pagan hoards in his train.

Again tnakns to Ferg for locating this valuable collection. If Praxiteles recalls correctly, there should already be pictuires of the previuous internal arrangements in Armagh on this thread.

Would anyone have any informnation concerning a company of 19th. century Cork builders called Barry McMullan?