reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Praxiteles.
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- January 25, 2010 at 9:54 pm #773556
Fearg
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
The restoration to its original condition was completed in 1988:

The North Transept is the only original part of the minster’s roof still in place. The quire was burnt out in 1829 by a madman and an accidental fire left the Nave and SW tower as a shell in 1840.
As far as I can tell, the cross on top of the South Transept gable was not replaced in the restoration (the original was heavily calcified in the fire).
January 25, 2010 at 9:54 pm #773557Praxiteles
ParticipantThe fire at Windsor castle in 1992:
January 25, 2010 at 10:02 pm #773558Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Fire
The Fire of Windsor Castle took place on 20 November 1992 – ironically the 45th wedding anniversary of the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. During work on some of the State Rooms in the castle, a fire broke out in the north-east part of the Castle and rapidly spread to engulf many rooms. Fortunately most treasures and works of art had been removed temporarily and so few items were lost, although over 100 rooms in the Castle were badly damaged or destroyed. The fire took 250 firefighters some 15 hours to extinguish. The Castle was renovated, the aim being to restore the damaged rooms to their former glory using authentic materials and craftsmanship, and was re-opened in 1997 after five years of work. The cost of the renovation was £37 million.January 25, 2010 at 10:05 pm #773559Praxiteles
ParticipantCarpentary skills available for the rebuilding of the roof at Windsor castle:
January 25, 2010 at 10:07 pm #773560Fearg
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
The fire at Windsor castle in 1992:

The restored St George’s Hall was an improvement on the original IMHO..
Before Fire:
[ATTACH]10150[/ATTACH]After Restoration:
[ATTACH]10151[/ATTACH]January 25, 2010 at 10:16 pm #773561Praxiteles
ParticipantAnd the same sort of debate went on about how to restore Windsor as is now going on about Longford except that in the case of Windosr “someone” at the top put down her foot:
Architecture: Barriers to change at Windsor Castle: The restoration of St George’s Hall was settled before ‘consultations’, says Amanda Baillieu
AMANDA BAILLIEU
Wednesday, 7 July 1993
AFTER the big fire last November, the debate about Windsor Castle’s restoration has failed to ignite. Conservationists thought the challenge of Windsor would clarify issues about restoration: it would be a textbook case of how to rebuild a ravaged historic building.
If conservationists imagined Windsor being restored to its exact former state, architects hoped contemporary design would be used to set Windsor aright – especially St George’s Hall, an unremarkable example of Regency ‘Gothick’ designed in the 1820s by Sir Jeffry Wyatville, in which plaster walls imitated stone and the plaster ceiling imitated wood. The fire destroyed the roof of the hall.
At the end of April, it was announced that St George’s Hall would be restored ‘as it was before’, although the possibility of further discussion about the roof was left open. Peter Brooke, Secretary of State for National Heritage, said that the Royal Household had been consulting with the leaders of the Royal Fine Art Commission (RFAC), the Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA) and English Heritage about Windsor’s rebuilding. But, in fact, crucial decisions regarding refurbishment had already been taken in principle months before this public relations exercise in consultation. The need for swift action was justified officially by the desire to cover St George’s Hall with a new roof to protect what remained from the weather.
Last month Buckingham Palace announced that Donald Insall, the respected conservation architect, had been appointed as the co-ordinating architect for phases three and four of the reconstruction, which includes the ceiling of St George’s Hall.
So the case for rebuilding St George’s Hall in a contemporary style was scuppered before it had a chance of being developed seriously. Soon after the fire, the RIBA had argued that there was now an opportunity for the Queen to commission a dramatic new roof for the hall. The Royal Household itself had been divided. The Prince of Wales favoured a new, albeit conservative design – an oak hammer beam roof.
The Palace still insists that only a few irrevocable decisions about refurbishment have been made; nevertheless, work went ahead in February and March on drawing up the Palace’s specifications for the new roof of St George’s Hall, before the consultation with the experts of British architecture and heritage.
Lord Rodgers, director-general of the RIBA, says: ‘I think in the end it was a disappointing outcome. We had been led to believe that everything was open to discussion. But it became plain that decisions had already been taken.’
Oddly, Lord St John of Fawsley, chairman of the RFAC, failed to make a case for a new roof at a meeting held on 22 April at Windsor chaired by the Duke of Edinburgh. The RFAC is normally a champion of modern architectural causes. Lord St John, who had been invited to Windsor in a ‘personal capacity’, agreed with English Heritage that the Wyatville interior should be restored. He must have known that his view about Windsor would not match that of his fellow commissioners.
When it became known that the Windsor meeting had taken place, Lord St John faced a rebellion. The commission met in May and agreed unanimously that to restore the Wyatville interior at St George’s Hall would be wrong.
The Royal Fine Art Commission is empowered by a royal warrant to intervene in any project or development that ‘may appear to affect amenities of a national or public character’. Several commissioners thought it odd that they had been debarred from doing just that in this case.
So after the fire we have the ashes of British muddle, a bungled consultation. As one senior conservationist working at Windsor admitted, ‘People at the top put their foot down. We will never know what we could have had because the debate about Windsor’s future was never thrown open.’
January 26, 2010 at 10:50 pm #773562Praxiteles
ParticipantAnother interesting company involved in the restoration of Windsor Cstle:
January 26, 2010 at 10:58 pm #773563Praxiteles
ParticipantSome of the stone masons brought in fpr the restoration of Windsr Castle:
January 26, 2010 at 11:17 pm #773564Praxiteles
ParticipantA contemporary news report of the fire in 1992:
January 26, 2010 at 11:41 pm #773565Praxiteles
ParticipantSome background:
January 27, 2010 at 7:12 pm #773566Praxiteles
ParticipantA photographic study of Baldassarre Longhena’s Santa Maria della Salute in Venice:


January 27, 2010 at 7:15 pm #773567Praxiteles
ParticipantAnd some more of Santa Maria della Salute in Venice:



January 28, 2010 at 7:53 am #773568apelles
ParticipantThe Taj Mahony. ..Also known as The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, Los Angeles. A tale of waste, Ego’s, & missed opportunities…


The former Cathedral of Saint Vibiana, often called St. Vibiana’s, was the mother church cathedral parish of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles under the pastoral care of the Archbishop of Los Angeles.
Plans for a cathedral dated back to 1859; and land for the facility was donated by Amiel Cavalier. The complex, on the Southeast corner of Main and Second Street, in downtown Los Angeles was dedicated in 1876, and cost $80,000 USD. The Cathedral’s architect, Ezra F. Kysor, also designed the landmark Pico House. The Baroque-inspired Italianate structure was a landmark in the early days of Los Angeles; when it opened it could hold one-tenth of the young town’s population. The interior was remodelled around 1895, using onyx and marble; the exterior facade was changed in 1922-24 to give it its present look, said to be based on a Roman design.
The facility was outgrown by the region’s rapidly expanding population, and the Archdiocese decided that it needed a larger main facility; however, preservationists pressured them to not destroy the historic landmark. The situation was complicated further when the 1994 Northridge Earthquake caused extensive damage to the cathedral and its 1,200-seat sanctuary. Deciding that the damage was not worth repairing in such a small structure, the Archdiocese began demolition on the site in 1996, without permits. However, the sudden dismantling of the bell tower on a Saturday morning prompted a frantic save-the-cathedral campaign, and work by the Archdiocese was halted by preservationists who had a temporary restraining order placed on demolition. The Archdiocese argued that it had the right to level its own facility; preservationists and the city wanted the church to be preserved. The structure was listed on the country’s “11 Most Endangered Places” by the National Trust for Historic Preservation. A state Court of Appeal rejected the archdiocese’s argument to be allowed to quickly demolish the cathedral; then City Councilwoman Rita Walters had moved to strip the cathedral of its historic monument status, an action that would exempt the archdiocese from having to prepare the full environmental impact study normally required for destruction of a city landmark.
Finally a compromise was reached: the City of Los Angeles agreed to swap land with the Archdiocese, giving the Church a much larger plot next to the 101 Freeway. The Archdiocese agreed and the land was developed into the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, constructed and consecrated as the new mother church cathedral parish of the Archdiocese. Some items from St. Vibiana’s Cathedral were used in the new Cathedral. The stained glass and sarcophagus were placed in the new Cathedral’s crypt mausoleum. Pipes from the 1980 Austin pipe organ have been incorporated into the organ at the new Cathedral. An Oratorio about Saint Vibiana was written by Peter Boyd and performed in Pacoima in 1997.
The new Cathedral site was taken over by the city. The city sold the former cathedral building to downtown developer Tom Gilmore in 1999 for $4.6 million.

The cathedral was designed by the Pritzker Prize-winning Spanish architect Rafael Moneo. Using elements of postmodern architecture, the church and the Cathedral Center feature a series of acute and obtuse angles. There is an absence of right angles. Contemporary statuaries and appointments decorate the complex. Prominent of these appointments are the bronze doors and the statue called The Virgin Mary, all adorning the entrance and designed by Robert Graham.

Like the later Oakland Cathedral of Christ the Light, which replaced the earthquake-damaged Saint Francis de Sales Cathedral, Our Lady of the Angels is a base isolated structure for protection against earthquake structural damage.
The site of the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels is 5.6 acres (23,000 m²) bound by Temple Street, Grand Avenue, Hill Street and the Hollywood Freeway.

The 12-story high building can accommodate over 3,000 worshippers. The site includes the cathedral proper, a 2.5 acre (10,000 m²) plaza, several gardens and water features, the Cathedral Center (with the gift shop, the Galero Grill, conference center, and cathedral parish offices), and the cathedral rectory, the archepiscopal residence and some cathedral clergy. The entire complex is 58,000 square feet (5,000 m²). The main sanctuary is 333 feet (100 m) long (purposely one foot longer than St. Patrick’s Cathedral, New York). The internal height varies from 80′ over the baptistery at the rear (west) end to about 100′ near the lantern window (east end).
Among the artworks commissioned for the cathedral are the tapestries of the communion of saints by painter John Nava, and the plaza fountain by Lita Albuquerque and Robert Kramer. The cathedral is noted for having the largest use of alabaster in the country.[citation needed] They replaced the more traditional stained glass windows, providing the interior with soft, warm, subtly multi-hued illumination. The organ, built by Dobson Pipe Organ Builders of Lake City, Iowa, has 105 ranks of pipes, some of which were retained from the 1980 Austin organ from St. Vibiana’s Cathedral. The case of the organ is approximately 60 feet (18 m) high, and is placed about 24 feet (7.3 m) above the floor. The top of the organ’s case is about 85 feet (26 m) above the cathedral’s floor.

Estimates for the restoration of the earthquake damaged Cathedral of Saint Vibiana ranged around $180 million. The structure was eventually restored by developers Tom Gilmore and Richard Weintraub, who spent only around $6 million.
Because the old cathedral was known to be of rather inferior construction (something noted soon after its completion in 1876) and had been far too small for diocesan celebrations for decades, the archdiocese chose to build a new cathedral (ultimately on a new site). The decision to change venues was influenced in part by conservationists, who argued that the outmoded cathedral ought to be restored and preserved as a historic landmark, and the needs of the new cathedral itself — it was to have a capacity of approximately 3,000 worshipers, the same number as a cathedral design from the 1940s that was never built, yet provided the Holy See-approved name for the new cathedral. Initially, the proposed budget was $150 million, but as the charities and donations kept coming, the architects and builders were able to implement everything desired. Thus, the final cost of the new cathedral was $189.7 million.Cardinal Mahony’s decision to rebuild the Los Angeles cathedral in such elaborate and post-modern architecture drew criticism from a number of critics both within and outside the Catholic Church, who argued that a church of that size and expense was unnecessary and overly-elaborate. Many felt that either St. Vincent Church on West Adams Boulevard or St. Basil Church on South Kingsley Drive could easily perform the functions required of a cathedral with minimal additional cost. Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral was also criticized for its departure from traditional California Mission-style architecture and aesthetics.

The price for some cathedral furnishings have also caused great consternation. $5M was budgeted for the altar or “table” — essentially a giant slab of Rosso Laguna marble. The main bronze doors cost $3M. $2M was budgeted for the wooden ambo (lectern), and $1M for a very controversial tabernacle.

$1M for the cathedral (bishop’s chair). $250K for the presider’s chair. $250K for each deacon’s chair. Visiting bishops’ chairs cost $150K each, while pews cost an average of $50K each. The cantor’s stand cost $100K while each bronze chandelier/speaker cost $150K.[6] The great costs incurred in its construction and Mahony’s long efforts to get it built led critics to dub it the “Taj Mahony”.
See also http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ca-la/mahony-2001-12.htm
And what became of the old Saint Vibiana building you ask? http://www.vibianala.com/
January 28, 2010 at 1:06 pm #773569johnglas
ParticipantSt Vibiana’s (as was) makes a great-looking disco; does OL of the Angels make a great cathedral? It’s an impressive-looking space, but it is a monument to hubris rather than devotion or good taste. (A cardinal-archbishop with hubris – surely not?) Well done for the exposition, apelles.
It all illustrates the folly of absolute monarchy vs even a hint of democracy.January 28, 2010 at 7:53 pm #773570Praxiteles
ParticipantPraxiteles could not imagine too many people wanting to travel to Longford were anything like that to replace the fire shell of its cathedral.
January 28, 2010 at 8:04 pm #773571Praxiteles
ParticipantLuca Signorelli’s work in Orvieto Cathedral:
January 28, 2010 at 8:34 pm #773572Praxiteles
ParticipantOne of the most peculiar things every built must surely be Evry Cathedral by the Swiss archict Mario Botta. It is difficult to imaging just how something like this would “fade” into the Irish mid-lands:


January 28, 2010 at 8:48 pm #773573apelles
ParticipantThat,s curiously like this one Praxiteles…Same Architect maybe?
St. Gregorius crucifix (Aachen)
~via Catholic Church Conservation. This is the crucifix over the altar of the St. Gregorius in Aachen, Germany.

Here’s its context:


And here’s Our Lady:
January 28, 2010 at 9:38 pm #773574Praxiteles
ParticipantThe architect for Aachen is Stephan Leuer. Mario Botta “did” Evry.
Aachen is truly awful and a further continuation of Schwarz and the clinical white interior inspires the the sort of thing one must feel when accidentally locked into the butcher’s cold room.
January 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm #773575Praxiteles
Participant@apelles wrote:
That,s curiously like this one Praxiteles…Same Architect maybe?
Our Lady:

This is clearly intended to convey the idea of the Schmalzmantel Madonna!
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