Dundalk

Where is that Castle Roche Paul? Often wondered when reading about it there…

Yes, the granite of the Courthouse goes all of the way round on both sides. Magnificent!

As for the chimneys – the Victorians may have imitated, but it was the late Georgians who fully developed the intimidating potless chimney – the power stack 🙂

Ah the Imperial – Dundalk’s Liberty Hall. Alas unlike the former, it is an icon of its age for all the wrong reasons.

Seen from miles around, instead of the gothic spires and crenellations of the cathedral romantically gracing the town’s skyline as its sole landmark, one must observe the fight between it and the Imperial’s plant room, disgracefully continuing to be embellished with a host of telecommunications antenae.

It’s going under extensive renovations now – they’ve completely shut down, a la the Shelbourne – albeit in something of a different league 🙂

Yikes – it’s up there, the pictures will do just fine thanks 😀

Yes, all of that 70s stuff littered about should be removed completely.

The trees look very stately and picturesque in front though and should be retained I think.
It’s a pity the railings had to go down – the drama of the building rising out of the ground has been lost 🙁

Great photo Ros – impossible to get a long shot of the building without a wide lense!

I was exceptionally annoyed (still am) that vast sums were lavished on this building’s exterior and interior, yet they failed to reinstate the Victorian sash windows – instead keeping the chunky timber casements put in probably when the building was rebuilt after fire in the 1940s.
They would have made such a difference 🙁

Otherwise it was a job well done, and the entrance columns, which used to be black, look fantastic in that regal red.

It was built as the town’s Corn Exchange in around 1859-64 just at the end of the Italianate craze, but the company went into liquidation inside a few years when it moved into the town’s ownership. A quite grand auditorium was built inside I believe, but it was gutted by fire and replaced with a vaguely Art Deco interior.

Yes – and scribbling on the newly restored columns too :rolleyes:

Some beautiful images there – thanks! When you look closely you can see the slight distortion alright in the conjoined picture 🙂
I haven’t been in the auditorium since the restoration – apparently complaints about the way the seats are raked, or rather how they aren’t…
It’s such an inviting building to use now – the difference is extraordinary from the dingy place it once was – though those vast walls and acres of floorspace probably make it even more intimidating now 🙂

23/6/2005

I took these images a few months ago but forgot about them until I came across the same building recently, sadly on the An Taisce Buildings at Risk register:

It’s made up of a charming and unassuming pair of late Georgian houses at the far end of a street just off the town’s main street. There’a a fantastic stock of 19th century domestic classical architecture round here – this one is thankfully one of very few in such poor condition, though it is one of the oldest so is perhaps to be expected.

Another view here showing the remarkably surviving original sash windows and brick chimney; an inappropriate modern one in the middle looks like it was shoved in about 10-15 years ago:

This house is particularly unusual in that it features a carriage arch – very rare for such a modest building in Dundalk, if not nationally. The associated building next to it is as good as derelict 🙁

The quote from An Taisce:

“Rare surviving unaltered early 19th century vernacular buildings. Divided into three sections comprising two cottages with boarded up door and window to ground floor and original 3 over 3 single pane sashes to first floor. Additional bay over carriage arch with sash over. Natural slate roof, brick stacks. An adjoining building to the South, which was part of the same development is ruinous with its rubble stone construction exposed. Vernacular buildings of this type retaining their architectural character are rare, not just in Dundalk but Irish towns generally.”

The corner is a bit busy to the far left as seen in Paul’s pic below – in another view I have of it it looks rather cluttered.
But overall I like it a lot, and it will have quite an impact on Market Square, no doubt about it – an area that is defined in the most part by 18th and 19th century buildings, and a not-so-old familar face in the glass reflection of the new building there 🙂

The height is much more appropriate to the area than the appalling two-storey development that went up facing it a few years ago (also in reflection). Particularly like the corner grills, though the expansive lower glazing seems a bit much and may offer an either faceless corporate front to the square like the rendering, or look tatty with everything going on inside visible from the exterior.

A decent building overall though – and here’s hoping it will spur on the demolition of the terrible 70s rubbish to the rear just visible in the picture.

A rather dodgy scan here from the local paper ‘The Argus’ – had to delve through the recycling bin for this and now I’ve tinned bean sauce all over my hands, so appreciate it!

It shows the wider context of the building, including the neighbouring 19th century buildings clamped between it and the other less pleasing corner building that was reclad about six years ago.
The contrast between the new building and the little Victorian next door is cruel – not sure what can be done though.

Lots of those gems about :rolleyes:

For those who don’t know the town well, the Courthouse is behind the camera, while the main street of the town, Clanbrassil St leads off to the right.
The Ulster Bank frames the entrance to this street and the right hand side of the square also:

…while the 70s? Arts Office/Tourist Information fills the side to the left in the above image – and not very well at that.
It was on this site that it was/is proposed to rebuild a substantial 19th century building from scratch – I’d say it’s dead in the water at this stage though.

Most certainly – they ‘make sense’ in their current context, but when that building goes up the whole atmosphere of the square will change from that of a market town to a city-to-be.

It is extraordinary that a town that is calling for city status has two-storey and single-storey buildings framing its central square (the single storeys on the proposed building’s site), and has a sprawling two-storey 1940s residential estate across the road! (in the background of above pic).

Il’l have to take a closer look at the highlighted buildings before making any judgement on them…
It’s important to acknowledge the strong Georgian and Victorian character behind the camera in the above pic:

…even if much is destroyed with PVC.

Sigh – we know, we know…

Having a good look at the terrace the other day, the highlighted buildings aren’t nearly as ‘out of context’ as the above image would lead you to believe – they actually fit in very well with the grain of the town (ghastly, and I mean really ghastly, shopfront aside).

But whatever about these tall Georgians (ish), I’d have great difficulty in losing the little red brick. I forgot what it was looking at the dodgy image above, but being reminded in real life instantly confirmed things.
It is officially the most charming, cutest (apologies for the term), delightful little Victorian building on the face of the planet 🙂
It’s a little world of its own, with original two-over-two sashes, and a if not original, then certainly early 20th century shopfront, an original slate roof, and tiny likkle chimneys that just cap it all off 🙂
A very rare little survivor of purpose-built 19th century retail buildings, and ought not be touched with a 12ft pole.
Hope to get a pic soon.

Dundalk is looking Dave, not getting 🙂

Good point about Drogheda & Navan though, both ever-expanding towns, with Drogheda already on a par with Dundalk if not already passed it out if one includes the burgeoning housing estates of its perimeter. Both have around 35,000.

Don’t know what other towns are looking though Boyler, though no matter who they are, by European standards they fall well short population-wise of what is generally considered a city. Indeed even our large existing cities are borderline at their c100,000 mark.

Dundalk has certainly moved up in the world, and architecturally is easily one of the most beautiful towns in Ireland, despite its reputation in the social stakes. It has an extraordinary amount of 19th century vernacular, especially early from the early 19th century when the town first took off – as well as a handful of buildings (including contemporary) of national and international importance.

Hope to get some pictures soon.

Tis a grand place all right 🙂

Ah the Imperial – alas it is being anything but demolished, rather it has been completely refurbished and is due to reopen in about two weeks! Has a very fine contemporary interior now, but nothing, and I mean nothing has been done with the main exterior elevation save a new ground floor shopfront which didn’t need doing.

You should see the fawning tributes in the local paper regarding the refurbishment, yet typically not a word about the ghastly exterior, or the plant room on top, that now has a fine array of telecoms transmitters and boosters to add insult to injury. A letter is making its way to the editor…

Yes the beautiful 1834 Louth Hospital is in fine condition now you’ll be glad to hear Lexington – in the ownerhip of the adjoining Grammar School following a sale about five years ago. Some all-singing white Victoriana railings were erected around its perimeter however 😡
Pictures soon.

Sounds like you had a great lark with the railway Lex – wouldn’t mind doing all of the things you got up to now 🙂
The GNR works are in a sorry state now alright, as is the original 1840s station – both badly in need of repair.
There’s a fascinating collection of railway houses surrounding the whole area – from tiny early Victorian terraces, to later more elaborate machine-brick houses, to detached gothic-style piles – fantastic!

The town does have a more planned feel to it that neighbouring towns – very simply because it was planned 🙂
Well, on existing routes as with most urban centres, but still it was devised very well.

Not so sure about the new retail developement to the edge of the town – very concerned it’s going to suck the lifeblood out of the centre. At least it’s easy to get to by foot, and is reasonably well linked to the centre, but it is still by and large going to be car dependent.
And as for the architecture 😮

Yes Dundalk is very retail-dependent for its size – and the various traditional manufacturing industries are dwindling by the day. High-end services need to be attracted to the town, not least to give it a purpose other than aborbing the over-spill of Dublin commuters from Drogheda.

I see a pp for another ‘discount supermarket’ on the Avenue Road on the site of the interesting 1940sish terrace of buildings there :rolleyes:

Much more significant are plans to demolish 😮 the original and best Dundalk Shopping Centre, and replace it with a sprawling Tesco superstore/filling station etc etc, as well as the vast derelict site beside it.
There’s a heck of a lot of rumours going round, but either way, whatever happens is going to be huge – with a potentially regional impact.

The Centre is half empty at this stage now with leases being bought out across the board – it’s in a sorry state now compared to its 70s and 80s heyday – remember the red gridded ceiling of the central area and the glossy bronze-stripped ceilings underneath the first floor with ‘feature’ bare light-bulbs? 🙂

Things looked up after the early 90s refurb but went downhill with the Long Walk 🙁
Now it is going to be in trouble with this new place opening – already Penneys are moving out again towards the brightest light in the town, just as they did from the ‘Old’ Shopping Centre in 1993.

Don’t think so – ah the olden days when rashers came from pigs, thank goodness they come from supermarkets these days – done away with all that nastiness 😀

Yes Paul the Greenore line was taken up recently. Calls were made for it to be used as an amenity area/natural walkway though the town, but naturally the road option proved way too attractive. An inner relief road or somesuch is going in I believe, in combination with the evential demolition of the notorius Hill St bridge and the probable installation of a large roundabout.

The scale of this whole site is truly vast – if the sports pitch to the rear of the centre is also aquired the whole place is large enough for a new community, slap bang next to the town centre. The potential for a sustainable high density residential community here is huge – it would inject so much life into the town. The site a few metres away on the other side of the bridge is also vast, running way out to the railway station.
The potential here to redefine Dundalk cannot be underestimated – how this space is developed will in no small way determine the future of the town way into the future.

What you say about the retail chasing about the town is just what i’ve been thinking for quite a while Lexington – personally I see little need for this huge new centre in the Ramparts considering the centres the town already has. Without a doubt the Long Walk is going to be transformed into a backwater space, and maybe even return to the wasteland it was in 1990.

The new centre in the Ramparts is called ‘The Marshes’, and the flagship Penneys in the LW are moving out to it, and Dunnes Stores new national flagship is also going to be located there – so perhaps their Park St store will close also.
The Penneys move is going to hit the LW very significantly – only Heatons are moving in to take its place I believe.
To the extent it may well have to redevelop to accommodate larger stores. The idea even five years ago of the Long Walk having to redevelop, if not maybe even close in the long term, would have seemed unbelieveable.

There is a certain logic in developing the Marshes in that all unit sizes in both existing centres are minute, catering for local retailers – whereas the Marshes is attracting Easons, Boots, A Wear and all the rest of them – all of which simply cannot be catered for at present. It’s a great shame the town’s traditional streets aren’t absorbing these retailers – they’re capable of doing it.
I think there is a genuine need for larger units to accomodate British mulitples, but there’s no doubt that the anchor tenants are moving about like pieces on a chess board for purely economic reasons. It has to stop with The Marshes.

Well I was innocently taking a few pics of the Cathedral the other day, only to notice something in the corner of my eye.
Looks like St Patrick’s has a new competitor on the Dundalk skyline 😮

The new ‘The Marshes’ shopping centre to the rear on Ramparts Road :rolleyes:

Castle Howard comes to Dundalk.

…only this is no Vanbrughian theatrical fantasy, but rather that of a large developer consortium – as evidenced by the arrival of the porticos the other day:

(apologies for the poor images – the usual am-I-going-to-be-on-the-news brigade were somewhat off-putting)

…and the insertion of the imitation Pompeian remains:

Can’t wait to see the finished article in November!

I’d say no for some reason….

…though it maybe postmodern ironic or somesuch in which case we have a masterpiece in the making.

Also some pics of the Imperial Hotel in all it’s ‘refurbished’ splendour – the grand total of nothing was done to its exterior above ground floor level – despite a whopping €14 million being spent on the scheme.

It still dominates the town as ever with the plant room on top, as well as Park Street itself:

Indeed such was the superficial level of renewal, the 70s aluminums weren’t even replaced in the upper two floors!
(PVC was put in a few years ago on the lower ones)

And instead of the impact of the plant room being negated by the local authority, it was made even worse by the addition of an astonishing array of phone antannae in recent times. This is what constitutes planning in Ireland in 2005; a disgraceful state of affairs.

What’s always made me laugh about the Imperial is that unlike in Dublin or other ‘civilised’ places ;), when the Imperial was planned for the very heart of Dundalk’s historic centre, the building’s set-back was put at the front of the building rather than the rear!

It towers to six storeys above the muddling little 19th century buildings on Park St, yet falls away to four storeys to the back – what should be at the front!
Challenging convention seems to be something of a pastime up north 🙂

Ah the colour of the Imperial – a long-held fascination with the people of Dundalk, a North-Eastern version of the Eiffel Tower or Fourth Bridge colouring debates 😀

As far back as I remember when first coming in contact with the hotel, it was a dirty green colour in the late 80s, then I think it was orange and/or pink at a later stage, followed by a distinguished cream which was by far the best recently, only for the current Celtic Tiger obligatory sunny yellow to appear about 2 years ago perhaps (when the PVCs went in).
The side elevation has got a lick of paint in the refurbishment – the front may have too.

Hmmm – which is which 🙂

Isn’t Carroll’s just a fabulous building? (it’s never going to be known under any other name :))

It’s something you’d never in a million years expect in the far flung reaches of Ireland, and a building most people are probably completely unaware of even existing – it is reminiscent of a structure in a US suburban business park: a sprawling low-rise pile of glass and steel surrounded by perfectly manicured lawns.

Imagine coming from the UK or other more developed countries in 1969, and suddenly hitting upon this striking piece of architecture in the middle of nowhere in north-eastern Ireland!
Especially considering DKIT next door didn’t even exist, none of the industrial estate to the rear had been developed, and the miles of ribbon housing that now flank it on both sides hadn’t even started. – it was out there on its own, a magnificent introduction to the town from the south.

It has aged exceptionally well, as has the surrounding landscape which is as important as the building itself. It has some spectacular tree specimens, and the lawns are as neat as they were nearly 40 years ago. The only thing is the shrubbery lining the Dublin Road has been allowed get out of hand and is now obscuring views of the building.

It’s an under-rated building in the town, though appreciation for it is gradually growing I think. Saying that, there has always been a liking for the fabulous sculpture to the front:

…which stands in a glass-like pool of water.

The two ‘control towers’ 🙂 on top make for very striking pieces of architecture when viewed from certain angles – they settle neatly beside each other in some views, beautifully composing the building with the lower storey splaying out in different directions underneath in an almost comforting fashion, like the towers are standing guard over the complex below.
And the main views from the N1 are equally well served by them – they line up strikingly with the the storey below, as well as add interest to the skyline.

Miesian corners are of course beautifully featured (this is Ronnie Tallon afterall :))

…and the uppermost course of glazing is continued the whole way round the building – not just the office section but the factory too, over its lovely beige brickwork, tieing the whole scheme together into a whole – an inspired move when one considers how disjointed the complex could have been with the factory element seperate from administration as is so often the case.

And the reflections of the early morning and late evening sun in its acres of glazing are just to die for – not to mention a very rare mist that shrouds the lower storey on magical winter mornings if you’re lucky enough to catch it – happens only on the morning of a full blue moon 🙂

It is indeed protected, and listed as being of international importance – not very many county development plans have this title featured amongst their pages.

Carroll’s were without a doubt one of the best employers in the country, a sad day is about to come now with their closure – but a good day on another front.

There is a major BUT though (both puns unintended :)) – a huge development to the rear of the building is proposed by the ever-expanding DKIT, which includes a plan for a 12 storey hotel no less, amongst other slightly more collegiate buildings.
Where exactly the 12-storey is going I don’t know, but it’d be worth a check out. Certainly the building’s isolated days are numbered.

As for Carrolls dying off, a pity indeed – it seems all of its diversification plans were fraught with failure from the outset of the cigarette war. The company has left a fine architecural legacy, from the flagship 67-69 factory in Dundalk, to Grand Parade in Dublin, to the old factory on Clanbrassil St, and its striking Edwardian office building there too.
Were there any others?

I heard that too about Park Street parkstreet :). It’s a nice idea (in a restricted fashion) considering it is already a strongly pedestrian area. I’d like to see it happen along the stretch from Dunnes up Earl St, it could generate a really lovely atmosphere here. The traffic implications could be difficult though, it being such a major artery with two roads linking from the Ramparts also to consider.
This Imperial area only feels cramped though because of all the on-street parking. If this was removed and the pavements widened it would help no end.
At least further south there’s lots of space for both traffic and pedestrians to mingle quite happily.

Here’s a lovely Victorian on Park Street beside the old distiguished Bank of Ireland – the famous incorrectly spelled ‘Pheonix Bar’ 🙂

It’s got a fine set of original sashes with fantastic shimmering cylinder/sheet glass – wonderful survivors.

The development featured before for Market Square is underway already – the site has been cleared of all that junk!

heheheh – oh but you haven’t seen so much as a crumb of this place, it is truly staggering on so many levels.
More pics soon………

Reading the Development Plan, as with probably every town in Ireland it is the LA’s aim to preserve and consolidate the existing town centre. It could be argued that the The Marshes is actually in the town centre – just ‘blocked’ as it were by Francis Street which gives another impression.
When the Long Walk opened, the Celtic Tiger just hadn’t taken off as expected – never in a million years would it have been predicted that British multiples would be setting up left right and centre around the country.
Hence the Long Walk was only built to cater for local businesses, with a couple of national brands to boot – all tiny box units with no capacity for larger stores.

So I can see the appeal and genuine need for building a new centre, but it is a heck of a waste of development on many levels with the Long Walk – built in the lull before the storm.

As for the new centre, admittedly you cannot help but be charmed by the design, in that all the ‘traditional’ elements are by definition immediately familar and welcoming – but good God the sheer scale of the ‘pastichity’ is just mind-blowing. It is a theme park, no question, not least as it genuinely sets out to accurately reproduce the architecture of old. There’s more beautiful sash windows in this building than there is in the entire historic centre of the town!!

This is literally a monster of a metal box clad in a myriad of architectural idioms, most on the same mile-long facade!
It was built to evoke a ‘traditional streetscape’, but clearly that of a provincial Italian town. They don’t do Palladio like that in this country any more, indeed they never did.

Just some pics of the latest addition to Dundalk’s skyline – the much talked about DKIT wind turbine which provides the Institute with (depending on who you talk to) 50-80% of its electricity requirements:

It is just enormous, as most of these turbines are – towering to (again depending on who you listen to) 60m or 80m at the entrance to the town.
Had to laugh at previous concerns about tall development going up behind Carrolls – literally within about 2 days this thing just appeared on the skyline to everyone’s astonishment!:

Wonder what Mr Tallon makes of it 🙂

It cost just over €1 million to build, and should pay for itself in 7/8 years – surplus power is expected to be supplied to the Grid.

It’s very striking – you can clearly see if from two miles away south of the town.

Haven’t been able to bring myself to take pictures of it, as it’s much worse than previously thought!
What looked like a fantasically outlandish ‘genuine’ reproduction scheme 🙂 has turned out to be truly appalling – quite literally it is the architecture of Disneyland. This comparison is always bandied about, but it is 100% correct in this case – the huge main entrance portico from the car park even has the audacity to use fluted Corinthian columns, which look so laughably out of place in a provincial Irish town it has to be seen to be believed. And as for the proportions 😮
Pics soon – only your’re paying for the cracked lens right?

Murray O’Laoire’s building looks rather glum and corporate from the main elevation, like an American inner city hospital. From a distance though it looks well running along the landscape, being located in what is a very flat region (other than the Cooleys). Ought to reflect the often steely sky and generally glum weather conditions round here.
Hard to make out the facade treatment.

lol – they accept all types in there, so you could’ve gone down quite well 😀

Yes a great place from what I’ve heard (though I’ve never been in there), the building is really lovely from outside, whatever about the view looking out 😉 Suffers severe problems at very high tides though…

You think the shop owner is related to you?? Annnyway :), yes this building formed part of the old Carrolls Factory complex at the northern end of Clanbrassil Street.

It seems to be a Victorian building with later ground floor additions – probably used as the retail face of the company in the town. The Edwardian office building referred to is this gem next door:

Could it match the stereotype any more if it tried? 🙂
Note the 1909 inscription at the top – there was a big fire that year that resulted in much of the factory being refitted. The 1909 may refer to the time the building was designed rather than constructed as it would’ve taken at least a year to build.
Scandalously the priceless Edwardian office partitions with inscribed and patterned opaque glass were removed from (presumably) this building, either when or just before it was protected. They are now let’s just say ‘elsewhere’ in the Louth area.

A fine collection of buildings.

@ctesiphon wrote:

You seem reluctant to divulge…

I know nothing I tells ya – NOTHING!!!

*scurries for cover*

chances are they’re tarting up a pub somewhere.

You guess correctly 😉
They also fairly recently acquired sashes with original (1909-30s perhaps) gold Carrolls lettering on them, no doubt also from the factory complex, if not the very building above.
Alas I am forbidden by means of an embarrassingly unfortunate connection from mentioning any names…

*mutters* dammit, they’re going to find out the real reason St. Patrick’s altar table and lecturn were removed *mutters*

We’re slopping pints of Guinness over the altar cloth as we speak 😀

Ah the connection is by no means that close now – just enough to be uncomfortable 😮

Moving swiftly on, part of what seems to be the c1910 Carrolls factory building itself still stands – lovely (maybe later) steel windows:

Grand Willy Wonka gates too (that’s the third time he’s been mentioned here in as many days…)

*trumpet fanfare*

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Marshes Shopping Centre Dundalk:
(Images © Walt Disney Corporation. All rights reserved)

The main entrance to the centre from the town on Ramparts Roads:

You then turn a corner which reveals a monumental ‘streetscape’ façade, reaching as far as the eye can see. First on the cards is the noble Ramparts Palace, winter residence of Penneys and the Sweet Factory, which converts to an orangery for the summer months:

The beautifully proportioned windows of the State Apartments above:

(with frilly horns)

A little further down one encounters the principal entrance block, which is a cross between an American colonial district courthouse, the town hall in a Hornby train set, and a one-off ranch in Cavan:

…with all important date-stamp in the pediment (okay tympanum).

The signature corner building at the very far end, apparently inspired by the celebrated work of Sylvanian Families, though to my educated eye I’d say there’s more than a hint of Playmobil in there too:

…especially in the neighbouring block:

But really, all smart-arsing aside, it is astonishing how the developers were allowed get away with such monstrous rubbish which one sees the centre in its entirely – it is a series of malls in a giant shed that have been pasted over with signature ‘buildings’ of traditional fluff, all linked together with ‘bridge blocks’ – quite literally brightly painted dolls house architecture with Tegral slates, which fill in the gaps between the pastiche ‘historic buildings’:

I mean what self-respecting architect would have the audacity to install Barbie gates in all of these blocks? They must have put themselves in theme park mode, and treated the whole scheme as a big joke – how else could you hold yourself together?
In all seriousness, is there any difference in the architecture above, and that of this house?

They’re remarkably similar!

To take a breather for a moment and pop inside, the building is made up of two/three double-height malls linked together by rotundas – all smothered in acres of polished stone tiles:

Nothing overly innovative save some LEDs set into the floor at the base of every pier:

The vast orangery building is occupied on the ground floor by little more than a few stands, hence you have to walk a substantial distance to get to the centre proper:

To correct an earlier statement, there is some new public seating in this area in the form of a lavish leather suite of furniture, but this is very limited, with nothing in the main malls or rotundas where people will need to sit.

Overall, the centre is architecturally such a disappointment to the exterior, whilst the interior, beautifully finished, looks nonetheless rather vulgar with the vast acres of stone, and feels wasteful with fans blasting away to heat huge double-height malls – you feel like you’re in some sort of mini ecosphere as garethace has referenced to before.

As a commerical building, it hits all the right spots – the people love the exterior, with the local paper saying ‘…crowds of shoppers all amazed at both the range of shops and the stunning architecture.’ And the project manager saying the style was chosen to reflect the ‘historic buildings of Dundalk’.

Think this sums it up:

Is there supposed to be a ? at the end of that just to be clear?

It was interesting to note the difference between the Dublin centres and Dundalk – in the capital security would pounce on you quicker than you could say cheese with a camera on their premises, but in Dundalk it’s a much more relaxed affair – they wander right past you wthout a care in the world! Similarly outside they just stroll aimlessly about, and even with the place crawling with secuity cameras – no interference.
Though maybe there will be after this 😉

Having a relative that sells dolls houses in the huge UK industry, I really cannot get over just how textbook dolls house design this building is – it’s a life-size miniature, surely a world first?!

25/2/2006

Alas I spoke too soon on the other thread about the removal of foliage around Carrolls – its merely being replaced with trees 😡

Whilst there’s still very fine views to be had of the building between the trees, the magical setting of the building’s island effect, sited in a lake of green lawns has been destroyed :(.
Seeing the grass run right up to the road was so refreshing – and the impact of the trees is going to be even worse come summer, as elegant and structural as they may be.

You can see the ‘ha-ha’ ditch here – it seems this is to be replanted too given the shrubbery that seem to be in boxes everywhere 🙁

Still looks is best in the morning mist or the evening sun, as below. Its sheer elegance never fails to catch the eye – I’ve never grown tired of it, passing it nearly every day for years at this stage.

Stunning

😀

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

A headsup…

http://www.irish-architecture.com/events/data/1139202212.html

Alas this tour has been cancelled. However a day long tour of the Louth area by the IGS takes place on Saturday the 29th of April. Members of the public pay an additional charge.

Came across a certain collection of glass plates over the weekend. Lovely things.

Great story – can’t imagine there’s many freeholds of entire towns left nowadays!
There should be a good many vacant sites and wasteland about the place with a certain value – it’ll be interesting to see what crops up, and what the overall freehold sells for. I’d love to know what houses still pay ground rent, and indeed if they actually pay it!

In other Dundalk news, Murray O’Laoire’s private hospital to the north of Dundalk has been rejected outright by ABP; the project has effectively been stunted as currently sited.

The 100 bed hospital was rejected on numerous grounds, all relating to the location, including the area’s zoning “to protect the scenic quality of the landscape and facilitate development required to sustain the existing local rural community”. The Board considered the development to be “visually intrusive” and “contravene materially the zoning objective of the county development plan”.
The building was also to be built on a flood plain in a location without municipal sewage, and this flood plain of Dundalk Bay a proposed SAC. APB also citied very rightly the hospital’s ridiculously isolated location which would be entirely car dependent, difficult to access due to its remoteness, and equally so for those only with access to public transport – which would also be my main objection to an otherwise impressive-looking proposal.

Councillors had earlier voted by 15 to 9 in favour of rezoning the site to permit the hospital to go ahead, but they needed a two thirds majority for it to pass, so failed. It was for this reason that the hospital developers lodged an appeal to ABP. Louth County Planning have indicated that they would have permitted the development, describing it as consistent with proper planning of Dundalk as a gateway etc. But it’s not even in Dundalk! This NSS gets more ridiculous by the day – far from being used as a blueprint for consolidated development, it’s being used for exactly the opposite!

In other news, one of the country’s tallest buildings is quietly nearing topping out stage (this time in Dundalk) at the entrance to the town right behind Carroll’s. The 14 storey, 140 bedroom, four star Crowne Plaza Hotel appears to be one of the few tall buildings on the island to have sailed through the planning process, even in spite of its location within yards of the protected Carroll’s Factory.

It’s designed by the ever-expanding Van Dijk Architects, one of the largest architectural practices in the country now, based in Dundalk.

©Van Dijk Architects

I like it. It’s more stunted looking there than the tall elegant concrete frame we can see at the minute, but it’s still nicely proportioned and detailed – excellent finishing by the looks of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that high contrast glazing turns out. The building holds an imposing presence where it is sited, closing the vista of the approach road from the M1 into the town. It does detract to a degree from Carroll’s in that the sprawling complex has now lost its dominance in the area, but the hotel doesn’t actually impinge on views of the building when going north into the town. Exiting southwards however and it looms over it like Liberty Hall to the Custom House…

You can see its rough positioning here on this aerial view, marked in blue, with Carroll’s being the white-roofed building in front:

The hotel is part of a broader scheme which was permitted by a land swap by DKIT in exchange for student facilities. So not only is the hotel going in, but also this small-scale business campus fronting the bypass (with highly tailored pools of water suspiciously similar to Carroll’s), and a host of student accommodation buildings to the right which seem very well-designed, hopefully of the same white brick as the recent additions to the DKIT campus.

Ample provision for student parking of course :rolleyes:
A sports centre and student services is going in to the buildings marked 3 and 4 according to the local paper. I presume none of this encroaches on views of Carroll’s from the N1…

Indeed it is more than ironic that such a well-designed building is partially rejected on the grounds of being ‘visually intrusive’, whilst dormer bungalows continue to be erected by the bucketload all over Louth’s landscapes, not least further south in Ardee, where three houses a week on average are granted permission on the outskirts of the small town. Indeed the very area that the hospital was proposed for north of the town has been a favoured area for one-off houses for the past 20 years.

Associated with this matter is the most wonderful blurb by the developers of the Marshes Shopping Centre in the local paper last week. Even the grammar speaks volumes:

“Pioneering in its architectural style for a shopping centre development, the east fa

Ha!

A bit closer to the 21st century, here’s the Crowne Plaza Hotel going up behind Carroll’s (sorry about low-res):

Hard to believe that this:

…will soon be this:

Even though it is 14 storeys, I imagine it won’t really stand out in the national height stakes, given hotel accommodation ceiling heights are barely more than the domestic eight feet.

This proposed development is great news on a number of levels, but of concern on others, particularly the impact on the existing historic streetscape.

For a town centre location, 151 apartments will be a fantastic boost to the area, and a significant nod in the right direction with regards sustainability, though the number of one and two beds is as usual disproportionate and ought to be addressed. The associated creche is also good planning in action. It is proposed to create a new street and small square as part of the development, demolishing a building on Francis Street and linking through to The Marshes shopping centre at the rear of the site – on paper at least another bonus for the town centre which is severely lacking in integration with the new centre. Here is the currently ugly and wasteful rear of Williamson’s Mall, with concealed Ramparts River along the roadside which will be opened up again.

Furthermore, the new street’s 10 retail units, restaurant and substantial office space will be a great addition to the historic centre of the town, consolidating the retail core. And to cap it all off, the apartment elevation to Ramparts Road (above) is superb – an elegant, well proportioned composition that does justice to the riverscape and essentially what will be a new street created along here.

However, there are more than just a few downsides to this scheme. For a start, parts of it rise to a questionable seven stories in what is a three storey area, slap bang next to the ‘Cathedral’ which holds pride of place in this part of the town. It would appear the excessive height of the Imperial Hotel is being used as an excuse to squeeze that bit extra out of the site. Whereas I’d welcome a substantial increase in density and an element of extra height, from the planning application it would appear the effect on the Cathedral’s primacy hasn’t been fully demonstrated – particularly on the wider townscape where St. Patrick’s generates the charming impression of a college or cathedral town in various approaches to the Cooley Peninsula/Dundalk Bay. This glowing white box will be located right next to it.

Of even greater concern is the bulldozing of a completely inappropriately scaled pair of buildings into Francis Street, as pictured by eamoss earlier.

While of good design, the taller is audacious in the extreme in this highly sensitive Architectural Conservation Area, to be sited directly beside the tall building at the extreme right.

It imposes on this delightful vernacular streetscape of late Georgian structures, exceeding the height of even the tallest existing building!

Here’s a rough mock-up of the impact.

The height is completely inappropriate: the extra storey ought to be struck out outright.

Also of questionable merit is the proposal to demolish Williamson’s Mall in its entirety, a charming 1840s traditional structure with unusual stucco dentil course and many original windows remarkably intact.

Obviously it’s been messed around with over the years with the usual nasty signage and cheap shopfronts, but it could be smartened up quite easily to make an even better contribution to this historic streetscape. Curiously the building is not protected, though as mentioned is located in an ACA.

It could be very reasonably argued that this building should be retained in its current format, with mall entrance below, and open out into the new development to the rear. The new street entrance could be made much more inviting than the current mall one is, with the narrow building acting as a ‘bridge’ of sorts across the entrance.

This is after all only going to be a narrow pedestrian street (and a decidedly dark one too going on the height of the proposed building) – it doesn’t need a landmark entrance forcing its way onto Francis Street.

While the Development Plan notes that any new buildings here ought to be contemporary, it also states “development should to be of a scale and form that respects the nature and form of the town centre, particularly the Francis Street frontage.” The proposed tall building couldn’t possibly be described as such, and even the smaller one oversails the parapet height of the neighbouring building.

Why aren’t these views being expressed in a planning submission it could be asked? Well, why other than in typical developer form, it was lodged 3 days before Christmas Eve – I didn’t even hear about it until it was too late to get a half decent one together in time.

And it is of great concern that it will get through, given this monster was thrown up on Earl Street directly around the corner in the past while – replacing another vernacular early 1800s building that was burnt out in a disastrous accidental fire.

The original fa

31/12/2008

Just an update on this commercial building on Market Square which has just been completed. It clearly demonstrates the folly that is shimmering glazing in most architectural renderings.

Alas the detailing as executed is poor, with almost zero contrast with the supposed black louvre feature and glazing bars, while the lower elevation is sadly chaotic, with internal blinds, multiple materials and different coloured aprons.

Bit of a shambles really. Hardly the coherence of form espoused by the render, nor the distinguished civic design character worthy of the town’s central square.

The eastern portion of the scheme hasn’t even been built yet either, so we’re left with this Cork Streetesque delight facing the Courthouse probably until the next upturn.

And shock! – the cute little red brick is up for sale as Paul predicted before.

Otherwise a beautiful evening in Dundalk yesterday.

The lady who owned the house of this 1820s fanlight was out sweeping her path. Alas she thought the fanlight “has had it by now”, so a desperate act of persuasion swiftly ensued. Hopefully it’s now safe if she thinks it’s worthy of a photograph. She did however regret PVCing up the rest of the house, having sadly ditched all the original sashes. I continued nodding through gritted teeth.

The little charmer next door.

Jeez, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Happy New Year johnglas 🙂

Just some pictures of the handsome domestic vernacular to be seen about the side streets of the town. Dundalk was remarkably prosperous during the 19th century, at a time when the rest of the country was on its knees. Countless travellers and visitors of the time noted it too.

Heartening to see some people still invest appropriately in their homes.

Greater pretentions here.

This was recently proposed for demolition and the site and gardens redeveloped for apartments :rolleyes:. Thankfully refused.

Also one of many surviving retail buildings. Absolutely pristine.

And this little gem further down Bridge Street. I remember being dragged whinging into this shop as a child. It was one of the last surviving local businesses that sold absolutely everything in its field – in this case haberdashery.

The two little amalgamated shops with low timber-lined ceilings were packed to the rafters with every product under the sun. The owner, a Mrs Flynn, used to just rummage through piles of bags and boxes to get what you were looking for – i.e. you always had to ask 🙂

Goodness knows what’s going to happen to it now, if a few doors down is anything to go by….

The former Wiseman’s Inn – a handsome classical building mauled. This is happening absolutely everywhere.

While this development, which can only be described as criminal, has just been thrown up next door.

Mountjoy Women’s Prison has greater appeal. Shocking, shocking stuff.

I passed this rare survivor yesterday, which was posted here a few years ago and is now up for sale. It is on the An Tasice Buildings at Risk register. Incredibly, this perfectly intact, possibly small farm/holding building or forge, is just off the busy main street of the town.

This grand, symmetrical late Georgian (really Victorian) terrace of 1851 dominates the centre of the town. Extremely old-fashioned in detailing for its date, in Dublin it’d be about 1790. Again it is in pristine original condition, though sadly recent incremental changes are already altering this in spite of PS and ACA designations.

Scott Tallon Walker’s elegant new theatre extension to DKIT. Very hot.

And the Crowne Plaza in a flash moment of enlightenment.

A building that elevates beyond the average when seen from certain angles. Strangely, it looks like it’s fashioned out of cardboard.

29/12/2009

A year on and sadly Dundalk’s main streets continue to decline. The town has been crippled by the triple-impact of the economic downturn, cross-border shopping and an oversupply of retail space generated by The Marshes shopping centre, which is sucking the lifeblood out of the centre. Thus, there are multiple vacant shop units – some the largest and most prestigious in the town – short-let occupants with associated low-grade standards of presentation, and a plethora of historic vernacular buildings – the very essence of the town – falling ever more into decay through a lack of occupants and/or pride in owner-occupiership.

This state of affairs is merely being compounded by the most low-grade developments conceivable for a grand 19th century merchant town. This is the latest offering, courtesy of McGahon Architects and the granting hand of Dundalk Town Council. Noah’s Ark comes to Park Street.

The newly incarnated Ridleys – more colloquially known as riddled – with a rubble stone-faced, blank, expressionless facade on a traditional street of render-faced vernacular buildings, complete with a third-storey of an exposed smoking area. You couldn’t make this stuff up. You just couldn’t.

And an elegant top-up of the adjacent property’s chimneystack.

Not to mention a gable-end coated in synthetic slates, for which one would be hard-pressed to find a precedent north of the River Lee.

This is beyond anything I thought possible of even the skew-ways standards of provincial planning authorities. It is so utterly obscene in its ignorance of context, its eschewing of most references to adjacent vernacular, its incoherent form, scale and detailing, its crass and ill-informed choice of materials, and above all its crude and gratuitous expression at rooftop level of a town’s already notorious alcohol-fuelled culture and nightlife. Is it any wonder this important street was not made an ACA in the new development plan. Clearly vested interests do not want it to be.

All the while, classical vernacular terraces, such as this one further down the street, languish in substandard presentation and ill-informed alteration. In the case of the third building in, permission was recently granted for this arrogant double-height shopfront, while the original margin-light sashes vanished and PVC went into the attic storey.

More of the same can be seen two doors down in the other direction. This is the very latest addition to Dundalk’s commercial core. Really, what can be said about an upturned finger? It requires no further comment.

Dundalk has such strength. This is a magnificent, well proportioned mid-19th century commercial edifice a little further down Park Street, where 1970s shopfronts were recently stripped away to reveal the most breathtaking double-fronted classical limestone shopfront with carriage arch, lurking in pristine condition underneath. What a coup!

What a difference it would make to the street if just the original windows were put back and the façade given a lick of paint. That is all that is needed to lift it, yet the effect on improving the street would be a multiple of this. It is such a shame people do not see this.

Root around a little down the carriage arch, and what do we encounter only a little gem of a Georgian doorcase in pristine condition, with a most unusual concertina-like folding mechanism or fixed sidebar, and delicately glazed fanlight.

Remarkably, this all survived a recent heavy-handed cement rendering all around it.

Louth, like many other counties, has a marvelous conservation officer, but such a role can only be a drop in the ocean with the sea of planning applications and unauthorised developments taking place across two of the largest towns in Ireland, plus an entire county of buildings. Expertise is needed amongst standard planning staff; this is the coalface where the action happens.

I’ve been watching this handsome pair of Edwardian houses on the Avenue Road for a number of years. This is them in 2007 looking precariously on the verge of descending into decay.

This is them precisely one year ago to this day, with the right-hand house burnt out.

And this is them today. Both burnt out.

This day next year, a planning file is being adjudicated on for their demolition?

Such a shame. From what can be made out of what remains, they had good staircases, timber-clad ceilings in the porches, pretty glazed timber doors and fibrous plaster flourishes. All gone.

It is upsetting that there is so little that is positive to report from a short visit to a town like Dundalk. And in all honesty, I have never ever visited a provincial Irish town and observed so much as a single decent contemporary intervention on a commercial street, anywhere. Architects must take the brunt of the blame for this, not planners.

Whatever next, Punchbowl. Before you know it, the infamous Pheonix Bar will be attracting the same clientele as its Dublin park equivalent!

There’s nothing wrong with its clientele – though I’m open to correction on that.

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

In all fairness, let’s be totally honest here, there’s nothing whatsoever “grand” about this town. It’s a run of the mill, ugly, boring, Irish town. It has nothing of any distinction in it. That Riddler’s building can only make the place more interesting. The way you’re talking, you’d think it was constructed next to Leinster House.

In which case, large tracts of your above description can also be applied to gloomy, anonymous, down-at-heel, and in part thoroughly mediocre Kildare Street.

There is indeed nothing grand about this part of Park Street, nor did I say there was, but as a collective of well planned, principally early 19th century commercial streets, Dundalk exudes a grandeur above that of many Irish towns, including its competitor Drogheda. In fact, it is precisely the above perception of Irish towns as being run of the mill, unremarkable and uninteresting that fuels developments such as the above, and its ilk as we regularly see elsewhere on this site. Such a mindset encourages the piecemeal demolition of vernacular streetscape, or where redevelopment is desirable, the insertion of mega-structural, bombastic infill which makes little or no reference to its environment. This planning approach is short-sighted and leads to the very result as first outlined – incoherent, haphazard and mediocre streetscape. It does nobody any favours. In fact, it encourages more of the same.

The above images, taken on a freezing, gloomy winter’s day, do an injustice to the town. As shown earlier, this is some of the town’s grandeur.

Such quality streetscape, if dominated by traffic and on-street parking.

Some of Dundalk’s strong legacy of railway housing, incrementally ruined by replacement windows, as with every streetscape in the country.

Not to mention the developer contribution. Did you ever see the like…

Returning to a building that was profiled here before, this grand c. 1800 house with Edwardian shopfront was recently ‘restored to its former glory’, with a ghastly developer shopfront installed in place of the pretty right-hand residential window – now unlettable – and badly detailed Georgian sash windows in place of the perfectly appropriate Victorian sashes seen here before works got underway.

The above was the completed result, yet here it is barely two years later.

It’s extraordinary how a building can deteriorate so markedly in such a short space of time. Of course the job was superficial from the outset, with paint slapped over render and rainwater goods that needed repair, cheap sash windows that were falling apart before the job was even finished, and a roof that was never repaired and is now worse than ever – all for the usual cheap buck that plastered over the past seven years of non-productivity in the Irish economy.

The sash windows of the top floor were also inappropriately designed with squat little horizontal panes of glass – a big no no in classical principles of proportion. One need only copy and paste a pane formation from the floor below to demonstrate that these should have been three-over-sixes with tall rectangular panes, as shown to the left-hand window.

The adjacent building, seen above, looks extremely ancient and requires further investigation. It’s not protected at the minute.

Ah Collon – renowned as the most intact planned Georgian enclave in the county. A lovely spot as your pictures (mostly) demonstrate. That limestone doorcase is incredible! Where on earth did that come from I wonder? Those hideously over-scaled lamps flanking either side are now cropping up everywhere in the county too – woeful aul yokes.

@gunter wrote:

. . . interesting window arrangement there Graham. On the basis of what we we just found out about Newry and what we know about Drogheda, could be worth looking into.

Oh great. So a notorious IRA head was shot dead in broad daylight outside the pub across the road, and you want me to flounce into Sean’s Tavern extolling the virtues of 17th century gabled houses?!

I’ll see what the weather’s like tomorrow…

Punchbowl, yes, yes it is.

*pats Punchbowl on the back* There there now.

Lol. The phrase saving the Irish from themselves springs to mind.

However unremarkable or modest the architecture of Irish towns may be, it is still a vernacular heritage that expresses the origins of place. Just because the sun doesn’t beat down on ranks of red tiled roofs, doesn’t mean our buildings are any less plain than those of a typical Italian town or village – indeed quite the opposite in many instances. Sadly, what does make our buildings unworthy is when they are decimated in a manner that strips away everything that makes then interesting and readable: the hand crafted windows hacked out, the chimneys lopped off, the stone roof slates replaced, the facade decked out in plastic, and faux heritage additions that are neither aesthetically pleasing or historically appropriate. Is it any wonder these buildings, and more specifically the streetscapes they inhabit, are undervalued.

To be a little more upbeat, here is a rare complementary, contemporary addition to a grand classically proportioned building of c. 1860, in the form of a crisp new shopfront.

Okay the polished stone may be a tad luxurious, but the proportionality and simplicity is there. A matching shopfront on the other side, a lick of paint and some restored upper floor fenestration and we’d be onto something.

A couple of doors down and these fine late Georgian houses have just been painted a very interesting palette of colours. Arguably the last house should not have been treated the same, but no matter.

The torquoise of the walls has been picked up in a satisfyingly robust splash on the doors and railings, while the windows and reveals are a lovely sea-green white. Extremely striking.

Though a shame the beautiful limestone of the carriage arch wasn’t stripped back. Never mind.

These fine knobbly railings feature all over Dundalk from the early to mid-19th century.

Strangely, the steps of this house’s front door step down at an angle – not quite sure what’s going on there. Great bootscaper.

On a less positive note, this little charmer with attendant grounds as shown here before was recently refused permission for demolition and the construction of apartments on the site.

All well and good, but this is the site today 🙁

They may have reapplied, but things aren’t looking good…

Also, some Christmassy scenes from the delightfully straight-laced St. Mary’s Road, which exudes an air of Protestant decency with its grand old houses, trim gardens and well-thumbed net curtains.

(I had to be restrained from pulling Santy out of the flower bed)

And the ‘night soil’ laneway.

Just taking a closer look at that Georgian and yikes, things do not look good at close quarters.

There is an impressive rubble stone mill-like building to the rear, so it would explain the grand merchant character of the house.

This was lying forlornly in the shop window…

In fairness now, the Salon of Carton House was not exactly the best choice of cover photograph for engendering in the typical novice reader an appreciation of the modest charms of architectural heritage…

Like this incredible nearby street of tiny urban vernacular cottages for example; one of the most unique streetscapes in Ireland.

As you walk along Mary Street North, the eaves of the houses are almost level with your head. Alas, in spite of being an ACA for the past five-plus years, this is now the solitary house on the street in original condition. A crying shame.

Curiously, the houses appear to have been built with rather gradiose chimney pots. The vast majority have been replaced in recent years, so it’s almost impossible to tell which are the originals, but the predominance of this square type above all others suggests this yellow teracotta pot is it.

A stack with notions indeed.

Also, just to record it for posterity, as we all know what’s going to happen, this beautiful little vernacular house and shop, with typically Irish classical shopfront and attendant grounds, survives a short walk away.

The house next door appears to be a later addition entirely, rather than a modernised house.

What can we say other than RIP?

Ah brilliant Paul. I’d completely forgotton that’s where my teenage bedroom desk came from!
There it is the foreground!

Fabulous quality construction, with an elegant metal frame, black melamine panels, deep wood-effect drawers with brushed metal leaf handles, and a brilliantly chunky timber-effect surface. Delighted to see it in its original Mad Men context.

Sadly, the handsome concrete planters ended their life through freeze-thaw in the back garden. What a way to go.