quirkey
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i just saw a thing on the telly. It was about the stadiums for the world cup …. they were only required to have eight stadiums between them (korea and Japan) but they’ve actually built ten EACH excluding the ones they already had.
One i thought was pretty amazing … the pitch actually resides outside the roofed over stadium in order to get the best of the sun and weather…. its then rolled into place and can even be rotated to a different orientation while in there.
Yes theyve got loads of money to do these things.. but doesnt it put the big squables over stadiums here into perspective ?prizes for ideas ?
hell yeah !!!
One of the big problems as i see it in the irish design industry is lack of such incentives to promote this kind of thing.
If you could arrange to have some or all the entries published … even on the web alone …you’d get an even better response.
If you contacted some of the design schools, you might even be able to convince them to give it as a studio project.
Go for it !Please dont associate ME with the green !(well at least not the shopping centre aneyhoo)
Jayz that cladding….. i hear the riverboat song everytime i pass it by …. and i dont like the riverboat song…. never mind the look of the cladding.
Thing is now i’ve kinda gotten used to it …. like you’d get used to having a wart on the back of your hand, (if you know what i mean ?).This rule i think is one the very few positive planing guidelines that planners actually seem to follow…. in an effort to protect the countryside (you did say ‘rural’) and encourage people to live in urban areas.
Maybe it’s the case everywhere but in the south-east, ‘precedent’ issue includes not only the previous existence of building structures but also matters like the length of time an applicant has already spend living in the area , and often the request of proof of ‘need’ to live in the specific area (family nearby and distance to work place being the two major elements). This of course reduces the tendancies to build holiday homes away from resort towns and reduces the blight that would occur when ‘blow-ins’ try to come to live in an area, yet at the same time providing an (admittedly very small) window for locals.Of course its very easy for the planners to stick to guidlines when its only one house, one applicant etc.. but as we all know this changes when we get to the wedge-like principle of a wealthy developer tacking on to a town, a huge sprawling estate of underserviced semi-ds …. here its ok of course if 90%of the inhabitants will work 75 km away, its fine that they use up valuable land with low density, over priced and single class housing, It’s perfectly fine that despite being part of a town people still have to use their cars to go everywhere (like you would in a rural situation), because here there’s not a large enough population to make public transport viable.
I could go on (and on) but the public would get bored… and i’d just get angry.
Stuff we all know a bit about i guess.Maybe it’s that apartment living is new to us all and that irish people arent really used to the concept of apartment living yet. Nobody wants to bring childern up in such places so they usually just contain young and or single people who move frequently.. for a community to develop, their has to be at least a reasonable percentage of permanent residents.
yeah i suppose i would tend to agree there alright.
[This message has been edited by quirkey (edited 01 February 2002).]
RE. Museum of scotland
I walked around the building for two hours before getting kicked out at closing time,
I’d probably have stayed there another two if I was let. Every corner you turn is a new surprise, floor voids, veiws through walls to other spaces beyond,slits employing glimpses to the outside world, niches in the wall with places to sit, like one huge sculptural piece , amazing….. one strange thing i found was one place where you had to climb two floors of stairs to arive at… just toilets…..as regards dodgey detailing.. i certainly couldnt find any… though the huge wall thicknesses in places was something i questioned…..
and after all that i could hardly tell you what the exhibition was about.
Personally I havent been as impressed with a building in quite a while.I’m sure there are a few people doing that now … new planning guidelines reccomend the authorities insist on inclusion of a childcare element in all new estates over a certain number of units…. some authorities have set this number at thirty (i think)unless such a facility already exists in the area.
WELL.. infacta…. stall the ball.
So much effort seems to have gone into this project at the start… and apartemtly little thought about the logistics issue.
Anywhere else a fast and efficient public transport (both rail and bus) would have been the first thing to go in, rather than here (if we were lucky) the other-way -round kind of thing.
Seems funny to me, I thought this obvious issue would have brought the project down…. seems now it didnt even need that.Interestingly…. an issue which was spoken quite a bit about during the peak of our recent (and ongoing) housing and general development crisis in ireland… that of creating a fast track planning system for certain important projects…(innocently maybe i’m assuming… ‘important’ for the people of the locality etc not the developers / buisness people)
While discussing this recently i was imformed that such a system is in permanent existence in sweden…. if a developer strictly follows the development plan, gives the planners what they demand and if they are providing something badly needed by the community… much focus and attention is given to make sure it works well in all aspects and the result is usually a drastically reduced planning period….
otherwise of course development is held up by the machine ….. maybe an incentive for developers to do / propose the right things in the first place.what i mean is how often do we complain about all sorts of things … not least in this context …all those constructed things which are insenitive to their surroundnings. By this I intend the word ‘surroundings’ in almost all its meanings ….Physically, visually, socially and ecologicaly (maybe especially this one in alot of the cases to do with Ciaran Cuffe).
How many of these constructions that you complain about now, did you object to in the first place ?? How often do you go to your local planning office to check what kind of things are about to be unleashed into your precious world ??
We have no right to complain about the bad things in our worlds if it has been possible for us prevent them from happening in the first place.
Therefore, though sometimes people with certain agendas loose the balance of important things while trying to achieve their own specific goals, on the whole I see it that Ciaran Cuffe and his like are good for the system….. maybe nobody else actually really gives a shit about this world…I for one am glad that there are people out there who stand up for what they believe.
(and if nothing else its at least a check on the system dont you think ??)
whats your point about an taisce anyway ?[This message has been edited by quirkey (edited 15 December 2001).]
How is it that we complain when ugly / insensitive / non_contextual / unsustainable constructions take place ??? we ask questions, why didnt anyone object ? how could they let such monstrocities be built ? whats wrong with the system ?
Then we treat almost like outcasts the few people who actually bother to do anything about these things at the critical point (i.e. during planning and before construction)
It was maybe understandable in the past when ireland was a much poorer place, that any development was good , for jobs, ecomony what ever…. and then we darent do anything that might impede these good things…..we needed them !!
Surely now though we have learned from our mistakes in the past 50 years, and anyway can afford that if we let something be built it should be for more of the RIGHT reasons ????
Maybe its a toss up between whether we value our principles (understanding of what is right and wrong ) and that of our ecomomy more ???I’m not quite an expert on the new regs and how these things have been changed,
but a simple change to stronger glass in the windows (below 900mm) used to do the trick.
This rule doesnt exactly make sense to me…for example why is a patio door with glass to the floor ok and if ithappens tobe called a ‘window’ its not ??fjh
name calling and other childish carry-on is pointless surely ????
Thats exactly why Ireland is the way it is… … it seems that (like you) the majority of people are absolutely convinced that it cant improve……
one thing you are actually right about is how too much of the concerns of too many architects is focused towards looks.it would seem to me that any bar which has a renovation that tries too hard to be cutting edge/ new/ contemporary right now is almost guaranteed to look tacky within ten years.
Those that dont try so hard (visually at least) somehow seem to sustain their appeal.fjh
Bad design, actually normally applies to when things dont work……..
if the handle of a scissors hurts your hand, no matter how good the scissors looks………its a bad design
If a house is sited 30 minutes walk from public transport and all has its living spaces facing north….. it must be a bad design.
Bay windows and pitched roof arguements are all maters of taste and maters of style…..these things can always and will always be argued about.
If the scissors is easy and comfortable to use… then we can discuss whether it looks good… and maybe consider the looks part of the design…… but not before it works in the first place.
The same with everything that can be DESIGNED. no matter what size or scale…. it has to work first…. whether its a pen or a city it doesnt matter.MK
I agree with what you said, but it seems that youve misinterpreted slightly.
when i said….
……. those few who actually give a damn are powerless , and most real architects have to survive on relatively poor salaries………
I was referring firstly to the planning process, how badly designed things cant be refused planning purely on the basis of bad design……. if you object you have to have some reason that is covered in the relative laws etc.
And the term REAL ARCHITECT is almost as you put it….. the ones who actually do put design quality before making a few quick bucks.we seem to be drifting from the heading topic here but anyway……
thats pretty much it yeah….you need to get some DRAWINGS (as opposed to designs) by what ever means and cheap as possible, follow a few loose rules and get planning, meet the requirements of a few loose construction regulations, get somone with a qualification (and /or insurance) just to sign paperwork , and maybe ocasoinaly check the actuall quaity of construction work. Pay the boys for their various inputs to the project….. and hey presto your own piece of sprawling ”metropopulopolis” or almost whatever else you so dream of…..
all of this said of course the most important thing is that at almost any cost to your building’s inhabÃtants the locality and society at large…… you have to squeez as much proffit as humanly possible out of it.Shure woi wud peeple keep bye-in dem kinda houses an tings if ther not gud desiyons an not der noh valya for money loike ? ya no wa i mane loike ?
RaB
I do actually agree with what you’ve said in principle.
maybe i should clarify what i meant there…about architects being powerless…
The problem is , firstly the architects signs cerificates…. certs of construction stages etc….. thats about technicalthings like insulation and waterproofing, general workmanship and regulations etc. Good design itself is above all those relatively minor issues. An architect has to make a living and at construction stage in this situation he’s not gona get much chance to change or improve design. So even if he thinks the design is attrocious he will still sign cos if he doesnt someone else will and he might as well get paid as someone else.
In terms of the developers veiw of things… well less qualified or suitably trained peopl will work for far less money, anyone can be pretty much fully proficient at cad in six months, have the basic construction technicalish knowledge in as long more….
To be a qualified architect in this country takes at least five years of pretty tough academic training… and then some.
On that standing the architects can not really win very often ….. a change in standards and levels of what is acceptable seem to be one of very few cures to the problem.
