Name and Shame!

I have to say I’m shocked anyone dislikes the Poolbeg chimneys, I really like them. One nice thing is you often catch sight of them from places you wouldn’t expect to be able to see them from, like the steeple described by Proust or the Twin Towers from the Village before Sept 11. Liberty Hall isn’t so bad either, people have a thing against it because they consider it a symbol of the seventies and maybe it is a bit bland, but there are far worse buildings in Dublin.

the chimneys are powerful and elegant structures.

aesthetics is irrelevant.

It would be better however would’nt it to have a few tall structures gracing Dublin’s skyline besides two chimneys bellowing out smoke.

Sure, but as well, not instead.

its about us coming up with a list of the ten worst buildings !!
The ILAC centre has to in there surely ?? by Keanne Murphy Duff …… also the designers of the “PORTALS OF DARKNESS” as Frank McDonald puts it (the towers behind Tara street). I personally think those towers with their new external treatment actaully look good but they should have been at least 150% of their current heights (previous referrals I’ve heard include CANARY DWARFS)
Good to see how the work they produce has improved significantly since those olden designs (Varoius Superquinns + the Arnotts makeover are two pretty good examples)
Other Bad Stuff ???
We shouldnt really even have to mention Hawkins house i suppose.

the semi-detached suburban house- easily the most destructive building type in dublin

every red bricked ,pvc windowed, infill apartment development with cars parked in the courtyard ,coving in the hallways (to make up for lack of natural light and air),mock georgian doors, windowless bathrooms ,useless balconies,white plastic countrystyle kitchens,nay kitchenettes. soul-less,listless moronic banality that pays real tribute to the ignorant and hungry developer,to his easily whipped and frustrated architect, to our swamped niave planners and most of all to the connoisseurs who bought them like lemmings.

why not draw up a list of the 10 most ugly buildings in for planning ? make a difference!!

then maybe this list should be a hybrid between bad aesthetics and bad function ??

Don’t leave of the top of the list the monolithic and cliff-faced “Park House” sitting on its stilts now looming over the Northside village of Stoneybatter and the Victorian dwellings along the North Circular Road for over 30 years. What a greedy built monster this is in its once unique built environment.

[This message has been edited by John Callery (edited 23 November 2001).]

Mr. RaB said it all.

Particularly the two on the left side of Gardener St either side of Parnell St. (heading north side)

I have to walk past them everyday and I’d love to know the names of the ‘Architects’ that put these monstrosities up.

Having been left to their own devices the bricklayers would have made a better job of it.

Cosgrave Bros. I think

What about all Dublin itself…? (joking). Anyway, I don´t know much about Dublin but when I was there I went to a shopping center near St. Stephens Green wich I remember being a bit weird from the outside, trying hard to look old and to fit with other buildings around it. But the main problem, in my very personal humble touristic opinion, is based on the interior planning/design (or lack of it). Does anyone share this opinion?

[This message has been edited by Rita Ochoa (edited 20 November 2001).]

Your’re right Rita……and we all feel embarrassed about the lack of good design in the Irish urban environment.

And part of that problem is that proper architects or interior designers are rarely employed for these things.
It seems that the general public in Ireland think that most of those quick build urban renewal and suburban sprawling residential developments are actually designed by architects (thereby generally downgrading the status of the designer in ireland).
Most of the time its a Cad operator who works directly for the builder, or if not then a completely overloaded engineer or Architectural technician who isnt allowed scope or time to have a chance to produce something of quality.
Maybe it comes down to the issue of the title of Architect again. Anyone who so wishes in ireland can call them selves an architect, and anyone can apply for planning permission (building permit). Planners ( also overloaded with work) have little power legally to refuse permission on the basis of bad design. Hence our vast quantities of absolute crap, builders and developers who get away with almost anything anywhere, those few who actually give a damn are powerless , and most real architects have to survive on relatively poor salaries.

[This message has been edited by quirkey (edited 21 November 2001).]

rob….. from the uk

Wayne’s World: fashion takes on mass housing.
19th November 2001
Wayne and Gerardine Hemingway are, I suspect, about to run into a lot of sneery criticism – much of it from jealous architects. These wealthy ex-fashion designers have done what architects have mostly failed to do for decades. They have persuaded one of Britain’s leading mass housebuilders – Wimpey Homes – to rethink its product and invest in good design. On a grand scale.
http://www.hughpearman.com/articles3/wayne.html

FIAT building at the Red Cow Roundabout?

That’s good for Canberra Rob…cos as a city it has to be one of the most boring places well compared to Sydney……Canberra is the seat of administration/government and is just full of embasseys etc

[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 22 November 2001).]

quirkeys comments that Architects are powerless i disagree with. who signs the certs for all this crap development ? also i have worked for the biggest developer in the land who uses “cad jockeys” (as they were know on the floor) to churn out all this crap were talking about.when a developer goes to an external bona fide Architect the cost and programme for a development can go up by up to 50%.with sales revenue only increasing by a fraction of that. i have witnesses this time and again.if Architects really want to improve our built envoirement they must develop a far greater sense of cost and buildability and make it easy for the ever hungry developer to retain their services.there is a situation achievable where the developer gets his profits, the Architect gets his/her creative freedom, the client gets a product they like and want and the planners happily police it all.Architects as must lead the way in trying to achieve this in every new development instead of “soap boxing” after the event.

The building of the millennium:

Anybody now Bishop’s Corner? (Kevin St and Wexford St) It really is something else!

RaB
I do actually agree with what you’ve said in principle.
maybe i should clarify what i meant there…about architects being powerless…
The problem is , firstly the architects signs cerificates…. certs of construction stages etc….. thats about technicalthings like insulation and waterproofing, general workmanship and regulations etc. Good design itself is above all those relatively minor issues. An architect has to make a living and at construction stage in this situation he’s not gona get much chance to change or improve design. So even if he thinks the design is attrocious he will still sign cos if he doesnt someone else will and he might as well get paid as someone else.
In terms of the developers veiw of things… well less qualified or suitably trained peopl will work for far less money, anyone can be pretty much fully proficient at cad in six months, have the basic construction technicalish knowledge in as long more….
To be a qualified architect in this country takes at least five years of pretty tough academic training… and then some.
On that standing the architects can not really win very often ….. a change in standards and levels of what is acceptable seem to be one of very few cures to the problem.

So please clarify me… Can anyone in Ireland be responsable for a project / constrution of a building ?! If so, how can you control the design quality and prices?…

quite like the FIAT building bunch, what don’t you like about it?

we seem to be drifting from the heading topic here but anyway……
thats pretty much it yeah….you need to get some DRAWINGS (as opposed to designs) by what ever means and cheap as possible, follow a few loose rules and get planning, meet the requirements of a few loose construction regulations, get somone with a qualification (and /or insurance) just to sign paperwork , and maybe ocasoinaly check the actuall quaity of construction work. Pay the boys for their various inputs to the project….. and hey presto your own piece of sprawling ”metropopulopolis” or almost whatever else you so dream of…..
all of this said of course the most important thing is that at almost any cost to your building’s inhabítants the locality and society at large…… you have to squeez as much proffit as humanly possible out of it.

Shure woi wud peeple keep bye-in dem kinda houses an tings if ther not gud desiyons an not der noh valya for money loike ? ya no wa i mane loike ?

Another contender for architectural gem of the 60s must be the tatty Phibsboro shopping centre with its attached office block element which has stood over the south terrace of Dalymount Park, even before Don Givins scored a hat-trick against the mighty Soviet Union and the windows in that awful block rattled to the roar of “The Russians are on the Run”.

I must say, I quite like the FIAT building too.

That “renovated hotel” as seen from the dart was originally called the Tara Towers Hotel

I agree with John Callary, Phibsboro shopping centre is the most hideous eyesore, its like a post apocalyptic 1984 sector for brainwashing and should be torn down.
Also Summerhill flats off mountjoy sq are dismally depressing

i dont really know why i dont like the fiat building. i think it looks a bit butch though, somewhat shapeless? any comment?

…i think its unusual shape / structure is what makes it interesting. It’s actually quite a small building but still manages to make a big impact…and it stands out well when compared against your average run of the mill car show room [the new Windsor on the Belgard Road is a good example – same old, same old]

The 3 ugly sisters of Tara St/Poolbeg St.