Betie’s (National Stadium) Bowl
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Since FF failed to get the overall majority which they were daydreaming about, will the PDs give the stadium the nod?
A compromise looks inevitable – perhaps a 60,000 seat stadium with the rest of the campus postponed.The stadium part will probably be built to a 60-65k capacity (cost about $300m euro or thereabouts) with the rest of the campus deferred. I’ve always thought that the indoor arena part of the overall plan should be built in downtown Dublin anyway, the docklands being the most obvious place. It would attract people into the area for concerts, sporting events (there’ll be an ice-hockey franchise like the one Belfast has in Dublin in a few years time) and exhibitions etc.
If you look at North America (which is at the forefront of stadia building and location), their indoor arenas are usually in downtown locations, while their stadiums are in suburban settings e.g. New York, Boston, Washington, Montreal etc, etc. The arena could be heavily financed by the private sector too, since it’ll corner the market for indoor concerts (the Point and the RDS are just warehouses after all with relatively small capacities). I think it’d provide a nice focus for the docklands redevelopment (pathetic and all as thats been so far) since the Abbey theatre won’t be moving after all.
More than likely we will probably end up with something mediocre and run of the mill……just like the Millennium celebrations here, etc,… and everything else we Irish seem to do….as is always the case…….well bar the odd spectacular one off. It’s gas to see the stadium in Cardiff doing great business…..despite the Welsh being crap at Rugby and Soccer…. Maybe we should just be happy with the Stadium of Light? in Inchicore or Landsdowne Road….which looked appaling last week, pitch surface and all…. for the Ireland game……especially when you compare it to Hampden Park in Scotland the night before for the European Champons League Finals…..(and that stadium is’nt great either by todays standards.) In hindsight…….the FAI should have built Eircom Park…..pity the rich gits would’nt invest in it……Dermot Desmond and the likes would rather invest in Celtic….typical of our Irish pseudo patriotism too……. Boo Hoo
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 21 May 2002).]
Enough negative crap, we now have before us a chance to build an Irish stadium that can be a great place, where the architecture is part of the experience. The transport links have to be part of the game. The edge city site offers as many advantages as disadvantages. Crowd surges from a stadium are not such friendly things for the neighbors in city centres no matter how much attendees may enjoy the journey to and from the stadium.
The arena should be in the heart of the city somewhere. Docklands could be good for architecture, but access might be a problem. An arena should have an event of some kind nearly every night so it becomes an energy generator for city life. Therefore, the closer to the urban core the better. Capacity is much smaller than a stadium so crowds are not such an issue. Arenas have had a positive effect on surrounding development and property values in many places where they have been built in city centres.
However, be careful when thinking arenas are profitable property developments. This is almost never the case.
If on the same site as the proposed Bowl etc., they were to put the 1 Billion pounds into developing a new town with possibly accommadation for between 10-20 thousand people, Ireland would reap by far more benefits than if the Stadium were to be built.
The biggest Crisus in Ireland isn’t the lack of a stadium, rather it’s the Crisus in Housing Supply.The stadium doesn’t cost 1 billion, the entire campus costs that (allegedly). The stadium would cost in the region of €300m I would think, and would have large spin-off benefits to the economy. Isn’t there enough traffic on the M50 already without building entire towns along it. Whats needed is higher density housing in existing residential areas, not creating entirely new towns within the city. And how would building a town on the site benefit the whole country?
just for proper comparison sake, the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff is located in Cardiff city centre and is 2-300m down the street from Cardiff’s main train station and bus station. and of course, it can count on its huge (population) neighbour England to attend games i.e. arrive by train and bus (there is also a civic/ adminsitrative district area within walking distance of the city centre where dozens of coaches park for the really big events).
Of course this can mean that you can get an influx of ‘yobbos’ coming into the city but i only saw problems like that twice in my year there.Two things…
Liverpool FC (the world’s greatest football club) are about to build a brand new all seater 55,000 stadium for 70 million sterling….. even they balked at building a 75,000 seater and they could have filled it at least 20 times a season, probably 30 (including Champions League and various cup games)…. but they didn’t want the debt…
see for pictures: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N135043020517-1147.htmAlso are regards Cardiff, every time there is soccer played there, there are massive congestion problems, the first few games had massive traffic tailbacks on routes in with people having to abandon their cars and start walking to get to the stadium on time, abandoned cars made the problem worse….
[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 22 May 2002).]
Very thought provoking, Paul. If Liverpool can build it so cheaply, why can’t we?
I bet that’s the solution Bertie and the PDs hammer out when they hop back into bed together. A 55,000 seater stadium, costing no more than 250,000 euro. No tennis courts, no golf academy, no centres of sporting excellence. Just a stadium. What a shame they knobbled the FAI’s Eircom Park – it would have been nearly built by now.What’s in the 70 mil stirling? Land cost? Fittings & equipment? Design fees? Financing charges? Construction cost only? Can stadium accomodate rugby? This is a suspiciously low number.
The Liverpool design takes the UK cheap stadium approach of separating each stand, no way to circulate around stadium within the stadium. This kind of stadium has a very different feel from a full surround. The need for segregation of supporters is not such an issue here.
Word of caution: a national stadium has requirements that a football club stadium doesn’t, especially one to take both soccer and rugby.
£70 million sounds very low alright. Remember Eircom Park? Originally it was to cost no more than £65m, and that was set in stone. Soon after the price inevitably doubled to a much more realistic level. The cost of these things is nearly always under-stated in the plans. The stadium in Wales was to have cost £125m but ended up costing £200m.
It seems though that with Stadium Ireland we are doing the opposite, finding the highest price possible and then working our way back from that. £1 billion is a nice round figure isn’t it? Never mind that thats the over-stated figure for the entire campus not just the stadium. Convenient that some anti-stadium people use that figure as the cost of the stadium alone. 300m euro is a much more realistic price tag for a 65k all-seater stadium.
A thought just struck me on the way home last night – How much did the Government give to the GAA to rebuild Croke Park? I think it was at least £150m – correct me if I’m wrong – Hows about this for an idea give the same amount to the FAI and the IRFU to develop/redevelop there own stadia. Indeed the govenment could assist them in any way possible (PP, project management etc) then everyone would be happy at the cost of £300m. The cost could be borne out through tax incentives and 0% interest loans from the government (and National Lottery) to these organisations. You may even save money by using (near to)duplicate plans for the stadia. Lansdowne Road is a perfect site for a Rugby stadium in terms of transportation links. How about using the underutilised St Anne Park Raheney as a site for the soccer stadium (run a small spur off the Dart line and you’re there).
Any thoughts?
[This message has been edited by Rory W (edited 23 May 2002).]
Frank MacDonalds idea is very good. Building a stadium at the Ringsend bottle plant. The site is twice the size of Lansdowne and is set in a triangle of sport projects in the area. Irishtown Stadium and Sean Moore park. It is ideally situated at the east link and a couple of minutes drive from the port tunnel and about the same distance from the city centre as Lansdowne Road. It is close to the following DART stations: Barrow Street, Lansdowne, Pearse, Tara and Connolly. It is close to the developing Dockland and ferry terminals in Dublin Port. The only problem is bus services but there would probably bus links created if it was built.
from sky news regarding a new stadium at wembley which will be ready by “2005” …
“Mr Crozier revealed that the new stadium itself would cost £358million, although other costs such as local infrastructure and parking areas will push the price higher.”
sounds like a realistic figure for Stadium Ireland too (just the stadium that is as thats probably all we’ll be getting in the end)
Wembley is 90,000 seats and has to include athletics conversion too. We will know in the next few days the capacity for the Bertie Bowl, but certainly much less than Wembley.
i just saw a thing on the telly. It was about the stadiums for the world cup …. they were only required to have eight stadiums between them (korea and Japan) but they’ve actually built ten EACH excluding the ones they already had.
One i thought was pretty amazing … the pitch actually resides outside the roofed over stadium in order to get the best of the sun and weather…. its then rolled into place and can even be rotated to a different orientation while in there.
Yes theyve got loads of money to do these things.. but doesnt it put the big squables over stadiums here into perspective ?
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