Irish Design Culture

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    • #705143

      Ireland seems to have a real lack of Design Culture.
      Those people who havent been fortunate enough to have an Art or Architecture Education seem to be quite unable to name anymore than one or maybe two Irish Designers.
      In the rest of europe designers are held in high esteem, often as national heroes. In scandanavia, almost every householder is the proud owner of at least one peice of scandanavian ‘design classic’ furniture …… Jacobsen or Aalto chairs etc Even their least expensive household items come from a design orientated background (e.g. IKEA …who are currently entirely financing the construction of a huge new Industrial Design building for Lund University).

      How can we foster and promote design awareness amonst the general population in ireland ???
      Is it a case of having more media coverage of working architects / designers ??
      Should we restrict foreign designers from working here (much as they do in scandanavia) ??
      Should Design Competetions become a bigger part of the selection process for architects (instead of always giving the job to whoever will do it cheapest) ??
      Maybe student competeiions should form a bigger part of Design education ??
      Display to the public via traveling exhibitions etc should ofcourse be an absolutely essential and integral part of competetion , instead of the usuall hiding the entries display away in the basemen t of the RIAI or some art Gallery where ordinary people dont ordinarily go during an average day………
      Exhibitions on the street, in shopping centres, billboards, cinema foyers, supplements in local news papers ???

      [This message has been edited by quirkey (edited 20 November 2001).]

    • #717471

      I agree ……the Irish lack design culture (bar one or two beacons)…but as I always say we are new to this business of how to live and enjoy the good qualities of life(after years of poverty, stagnation, famine and servitude)and we are only beginning to enjoy the riches that money brings. Unfortunately money does’nt buy ‘good taste’ hence the proliferation of shite about us. (Poor ignorant souls….in our ‘State of Inertia’)

      [This message has been edited by GregF (edited 21 November 2001).]

    • #717472

      You know it’s quite interesting listening to this from my perspective. Here, in the US, there are so many different architects it drives us crazy when we have to write a paper on just one. Sometimes I think to have a middle-type grey area would be so much better…

    • #717473

      …..taken from NAME AND SHAME topic on this forum……..

      It seems that the general public in Ireland think that most of those quick build urban renewal and suburban sprawling residential developments are actually designed by architects (thereby generally downgrading the status of the designer in ireland).
      Most of the time its a Cad operator who works directly for the builder, or if not then a completely overloaded engineer or Architectural technician who isnt allowed scope or time to have a chance to produce something of quality.
      Maybe it comes down to the issue of the title of Architect again. Anyone who so wishes in ireland can call them selves an architect, and anyone can apply for planning permission (building permit). Planners ( also overloaded with work) have little power legally to refuse permission on the basis of bad design. Hence our vast quantities of absolute crap, builders and developers who get away with almost anything anywhere, those few who actually give a damn are powerless , and most real architects have to survive on relatively poor salaries.

      A change in planning policy… to give the planner more power or maybe make it that every design had to be passed by a fully qualified and experienced architect (like the process for public housing where dept of environment architects have to approve all design work).
      The almost guaranteed increase in design standard would increase peoples awareness of how good design can improve their lives and therefore start to take notice of who designs what……
      Or maybe actually the increase in design standard is the real ultimate goal and the general populus’s awareness should be a means to that end rather than the other way round !!!

    • #717474

      What do you mean by design awareness? Do you think that is necessary to have power in order to have control over your designs. Power and control are not the same thing. The status of the architect in Ireland is downgraded by the architect himself/herself. Most architects choose power(money) over control(good design). If you wish to be bullied by developers, be part of their capalist/consumerist machine, it is your own fault. There are great architects in Ireland, even Kenneth Frampton thinks so, but the majority are, for want of a better word, shit. Technology tricks and iconography from some form of international contemporary style. Architecture is in a time of change greater than ever before, greater than the Secession, and most practicing architects sit in the comfortable ignornance of the Modernist or Post Modernist(I mean this in the Terry Farrelly sense of Post Modernism as opposed to Hadid or Miralles) ideals which are inadequate for the world we inhabit.
      That is what is wrong with Irish design.

    • #717475

      architects think they know how the built envoirnment should be.
      architects think they know how people should live.
      architects are full of s h i t.

      the notion of “bad design” usually referes to the fact that the builing has a pitched roof or a bay window or even some basterdised classical details stuck on.

      theres nothing wrong with people who want to build or inhabit these strucures.

      if they like to they are allowed to (democracy)

      the fact is that architects harbour thier own personal views on how our cities should be and then try to impose them on everyone else.
      they become disillusioned when thier views (which are completely out of touch with the way the world actually is) are rejected by the public, the goverment or whoever and so decide that is society thats wrong and not them.

      corbusier* was full of s h i t and f u c k you too.

      *(who failed many major cities with his egotistical nonsense and its legacy)

      [This message has been edited by fjh (edited 26 November 2001).]

    • #717476

      What a load of bullshit you talk………people listen to doctors when they need EXPERT advice about their health, solicitors when they need EXPERT advice about legal stuff, accountants when they need EXPERT advice about their money………….why not architects, when they need EXPERT advice about homes, design,the environment……… makes sense…….
      What I think that you are trying to achieve coming on here shouting your mouth off is to become some sort of ‘peoples champion’

    • #717477
      DARA H

      Jack, why did you include ‘the environment’ as one of the areas of expertise of architects. Surely, you can’t be claiming that architects are somehow environmetal experts too? (unless, do you mean within building envelopes).

    • #717478

      Maybe I should have been a bit more specific……..I was talking about the urban environment…..urban design and the like.

    • #717479

      I agree with what you said, but it seems that youve misinterpreted slightly.
      when i said….
      ……. those few who actually give a damn are powerless , and most real architects have to survive on relatively poor salaries………
      I was referring firstly to the planning process, how badly designed things cant be refused planning purely on the basis of bad design……. if you object you have to have some reason that is covered in the relative laws etc.
      And the term REAL ARCHITECT is almost as you put it….. the ones who actually do put design quality before making a few quick bucks.

    • #717480

      Bad design, actually normally applies to when things dont work……..
      if the handle of a scissors hurts your hand, no matter how good the scissors looks………its a bad design
      If a house is sited 30 minutes walk from public transport and all has its living spaces facing north….. it must be a bad design.
      Bay windows and pitched roof arguements are all maters of taste and maters of style…..these things can always and will always be argued about.
      If the scissors is easy and comfortable to use… then we can discuss whether it looks good… and maybe consider the looks part of the design…… but not before it works in the first place.
      The same with everything that can be DESIGNED. no matter what size or scale…. it has to work first…. whether its a pen or a city it doesnt matter.

    • #717481

      i am not a peoples champion.
      fu ck the little people.

      i said bad design usually refers to aesthetics becuase another facet of architects bullshit is thier obsession with how something looks and this often dominates other concerns.

      everyone has a different opinion of what good design is.

      quirkey seems to have memorised his from the architects handbook.

      by the way fu ck you quirkey.

      why dont you just accept ireland as it is and stop trying to emulate some other system.

      this is ireland.

      youre all so full of sh it.


      [This message has been edited by fjh (edited 27 November 2001).]

    • #717482
      DARA H

      Dear fjh,
      did an architect drop you on your head when you were a child?

    • #717483

      name calling and other childish carry-on is pointless surely ????
      Thats exactly why Ireland is the way it is… … it seems that (like you) the majority of people are absolutely convinced that it cant improve……
      one thing you are actually right about is how too much of the concerns of too many architects is focused towards looks.

    • #717484
      Paul Clerkin

      fjh, consider yourself warned for personal abuse. There is no need to get personal who you cannot hold a civil discussion. I deleted your subsequent message to Quirkey as it didnt address any arguments and was just insulting and personal.

    • #717485

      …..what a terrible trait we have…..the angry beligerant ignorant Irish ….ever inward looking…..pessimistic….drown your sorrows in drink……slag off what is not not understood…..will that aspect of our psyche ever change!

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