apelles
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@Praxiteles wrote:
I am not at all sure of that …..
Was only messing about no one reading this thread..With 1,021,459 views & currently & 6,122 replies it has to be the most popular thread ever on Arkiseek..So very well done Praxiteles..you’re a legend.
But the problem I am addressing here or what I was getting at, is how do we get the ‘right’ feckin people to read it? The ones who are awarded these contracts..meaning the likes of your Hurleys & Heddermans etc..those Architects who aggressively pursue their own agenda in Church reordering around the country..Ignorant as Praxiteles would say ‘to the wind of change’ that’s happening around them & needs to be brought to their attention. How can we make them sit up & take notice of the views expressed here by so many & put an end to this fad of Church vandalism?..For good.
Any Ideas anyone?Agree John..It could have been a interesting neoclassical building but the hicklety picklety approach to its upkeep over the years has left us with somewhat of a ‘Frankinstiens Monster’ in building terms.
BTW..Don’t refrain from making honest comments on this thread..no one reads it anyway..St. Mary’s Church, Westport
In 1787 a lease for a Catholic Church at Riverside was secured. However it was 25 years later before the church was built. The foundation stone was laid on the site in 1813 and can be seen in the porch of the church. The building of cut stone was in the gothic revival style and fronted the mall. The original gothic church had become too small by the 1920’s and a new church incorporating the old gothic facade was built on the mall in 1932, the year of The Eucharistic Congress.
In 1959 the old gothic façade was demolished to make way for the facade and the new St Mary’s was consecrated in 1961. In 1973 the altar and sanctuary were remodelled by Wilfred Cant well to conform to liturgical recommendations of Vatican II. The altar is made of carrera marble, the mosaic Stations of the Cross along the walls are designed by Samuel McGolderick and date from 1930. The windows provide many examples of the best of Irish stained glass by Harry Clarke and Patrick Pye. More Improvements were made in 2004 When the Architect was Mrs Anne Dennehy with the works costing 1.9 million euro.
All the hacking this church has recieved over the years has certainly left its toll, but the thing I find most objectionable about it would have to be the rough dirty grey plaster dash sprayed onto the main ceiling areas & up into the dome. Ironicly enough the Church is built in an area in Westport called ‘The Shambles’.
For a Panoramic view; http://www.360cities.net/image/westport-church
Another masterful Architect-painter whom I much admire was Andrea Pozzo.
The St Ignatius’ Church
His masterpiece, the illusory perspectives in frescoes of the dome, the apse and the ceiling of Rome’s Jesuit church of Sant’Ignazio (illustrations right and below) were painted between 1685 – 1694 and are a remarkable and emblematic creation of High Roman Baroque. For several generations, they set the standard for the decoration of Late Baroque ceiling frescos throughhout Catholic Europe. Compare this work to Gaulli’s masterpiece in the other major Jesuit church in Rome, Il Gesù.The project had not started upon the church’s completion; Sant’Ignazio remained unfinished even after its consecration in 1642. Disputes with the original donors, the Ludovisi, had stopped construction of the planned dome. Pozzo expediently proposed to make an illusionistic dome, when viewed from inside, by painting on canvas. It was impressive to viewers, but controversial; some feared the canvas would soon darken.
On the flat ceiling he painted an allegory of the Apotheosis of S. Ignatius, in breathtaking perspective. The painting, 17 m in diameter, is devised to make an observer, looking from a spot marked by a brass disc set into the floor of the nave, seem to see a lofty vaulted roof decorated by statues, while in fact the ceiling is flat. The painting celebrates the missionary spirit of two centuries of adventurous apostolic spirit of Jesuit explorers and missionaries. To modern sensitivity, this would appear to incentivate the expansion of Roman Catholicism, along with the overseas enterprises of the day, to other continents. It was also a combative Catholicism. For example, in the pendentives rather than placing the usual evangelists or scholarly pillars of doctrine, he depicted the victorious warriors of the old testament: Judith and Holofernes; David and Goliath; Jael and Sisera; and Samson and the Philistines. It is said that when completed, some said (sic)”Sant’Ignazio was a good place to buy meat, since four new butchers are now there.”
In the nave fresco, Light comes from God the Father to the Son who transmits it to St. Ignatius, whence it breaks into four rays leading to the four continents. Pozzo explained that he illustrated the words of Christ in Luke: I am come to send fire on the earth, and the words of Ignatius: Go and set everything aflame. A further ray illuminates the name of Jesus (2). With its perspective, space-enlarging illusory architecture and with the apparition of the heavenly assembly whirling above, the ensemble offered an example which was copied in several Italian, Austrian and German churches of the Jesuit order.
The illustionistic perspective of Pozzo’s brilliant trompe-l’oeil dome at Sant’Ignazio (1685) is revealed by viewing it from the opposite endThe architecture of the trompe-l’oeil dome (illustration, left) seems to erase and raise the ceiling with such a realistic impression that it is difficult to distinguish what is real or not. Andrea Pozzo painted this ceiling and trompe-l’oeil dome on a canvas, 17 m wide. The paintings in the apse depict scenes from the life of St. Ignatius, St Francis Xavier and St Francis Borgia.
I scanned these from his book entitled ‘Perspective in Architecture & Painting’.
Good to see they had a sense of humour about these things back in 1685: 😀Gorton Monastery wins top property honour
By Chris Barry – Editor
THE restoration of Gorton Monastery, the stunning 19th Century former friary in east Manchester, has been named the top North West building project at the property sector’s annual awards.
The Monastery – one of the finest examples of High Victorian Gothic architecture in the world – which has been saved from ruin by a £6.5m restoration, was crowned Project of The Year by judges at the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors’ 2009 awards.Seven other projects were awarded prizes at the awards evening held at the City of Manchester Stadium, where the North West’s most impressive buildings and property schemes were commended.
Widely regarded as the region’s property ‘Oscars’, the awards recognise and celebrate inspirational initiatives and developments in land, property, construction and the environment.
The categories included; building conservation, commercial, community benefit, design and innovation, regeneration, residential, sustainability and tourism and leisure.
Gorton Monastery won the overall Project of the Year accolade – the top-rated award presented to a nominee that excelled across all eight categories and above all other submissions.
The Monastery, once listed as one of the top 100 endangered sites in the world, was awarded the honour for its outstanding entry which scooped the building conservation award. The £6.5m restoration project is now a tourist attraction and also hosts corporate events and weddings.
Other winners on the night were the Liverpool One shopping centre, which won in two categories, and Edge Hill University in Lancashire claimed the award for sustainability. All the winners will be entered into the national RICS awards later this year, where they will compete against building projects from across the UK.
RICS chairman of the judging panel, Andrew Kellaway said: “We have seen some truly inspirational projects this evening, which proves that property professionals across the North West are still showing their innovation, creativity and commitment to sustaining and improving the property landscape.â€
Mr Kellaway concluded: “The awards symbolise excellence in the North West property and construction sector and provide an invaluable opportunity for the region to celebrate and showcase its exceptional projects. There is some fantastic work being done which deserves to be championed and celebrated.â€
University Church, St. Stephen’s Green, Dublin.. Aha..I remember this Church from some time ago when I painted in the Commons restaurant in Newman House which was definitely not painted in the Byzantine Revival style.
John Hungerford Pollen
(b London, 19 Nov 1820; d London, 2 Dec 1902). English designer, painter and writer. Born to an aristocratic family and educated at Eton College, Eton, Berks, and Christ Church, Oxford, he spent a brief period as an Anglican clergyman under the inspiration of the evangelical Oxford movement. In 1850 he designed and painted the ceiling of Merton College Chapel, Oxford (in situ), and shortly afterwards converted to Roman Catholicism. In 1854-6, while teaching at the Catholic University, Dublin, he designed and decorated the University Church in a richly ornamented Byzantine Revival style. In Ireland he met Benjamin Woodward, architect of the Oxford Union Society, and through him became involved with Dante Gabriel Rossetti and other Pre-Raphaelite artists in painting the ill-fated wall frescoes (1857) in the Debating Hall (now the Old Library) that are now scarcely recognizable. Most of his domestic commissions evolved from his connections with the Catholic aristocracy, for example his decoration for the library of Blickling Hall, Alysham (1859-61), with patterns of dense Celtic interlace (in situ). His numerous design commissions included stained glass, tapestry, carpets (including a design for Wilton, 1877) and furniture. He was committed to the crafts revival movement, and in 1887 he co-founded, with Walter Crane, the Arts and Crafts Exhibition Society. As editor of the Department of Art and Industry of the South Kensington Museum (now the Victoria & Albert), London, from 1863 to 1876, he published several pioneering catalogues. Many of his drawings and watercolours are in the collection of the Royal Institute of British Architects, London.
Seems like an interesting chap…I shall endeavour to find some images of his talents & post them here..forthwith.
True but to honest tho..I think the’re better off in Enniscorthy cathedral than in a land fill in Derry.
HOLY CROSS PARISH CHURCH IMPROVEMENT COMPETITION WINNER
Niall D Brennan Associates (http://www.ndba.ie) have won the Holy Cross Parish Church Improvement Competition. The announcement of the winner was made today at the opening of the exhibition of the competition entries in the Parish Hall, beneath Holy Cross Church on Main Street, Dundrum, Dublin 14. The exhibition runs until Sunday, 29 November 2009.
The RIAI (Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland) administered the competition on behalf of the promoters, Holy Cross Parish Development Building Committee. The committee sought ideas from RIAI Members and Fellows who had experience or were interested in ecclesiastical works to suggest improvements to the existing parish church building.
Holy Cross Church, a protected structure on Main Street, Dundrum is located in the centre of Dundrum village since the 1800s. The village has seen enormous physical change to the built environment around it in the last number of years. The physical importance of the church, as a significant part of the landscape has reduced against the new backdrop of commerce generated by Phase One of the Dundrum Town Centre, large apartment blocks and the by-pass roadway. Phase Two of Dundrum centre will have an even greater impact.
The range of issues to be addressed and the potential for conflicting solutions required skilful balance in the ideas put forward and made for challenging responses in the 23 diverse submissions received. The competition will be of considerable benefit to the Parish of Holy Cross in clarifying the brief to be prepared for works to secure innovative improvements to the church which, it is hoped, will be implemented shortly following Diocesan approval.
Commenting on Niall D Brennan Associates’ winning submission, the jury noted that the submission’s concept addressed areas of particular interest in the brief. The creation of a Welcome Area including the baptismal font would add to the enjoyment of and participation in church celebrations and sacraments. A simple glazed entrance screen incorporating images of the parish notices was considered to be very successful and movement and circulation were well considered for all liturgical events.
One question..What exactly does it mean if a ‘structure is protected’ in terms of improvement..is it that your not allowed to use one of them big crane thingys with a ball & chain?
http://www.riai.ie/news/article/holy_cross_parish_church_improvement_competition_winner/
Bono representing Ireland…That’s unusual..
What’s the difference between God & Bono? God doesn’t believe he’s Bono.
It just defies belief that they could have made such a balls of & wasted so much time & resources on that “restoration”? someone has to be held accountable for this disastrous waste of parisherners money..I wonder was it that they used an incorrect mix of mortar when pointing, did they not use a traditional self-healing lime putty mortar or is this mess simply down to inproper preperation work.
From Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_mortar
Lime mortar is a type of mortar composed of lime, an aggregate such as sand, and water. It is one of the oldest known types of mortar, dating back to the 4th century BCE and widely used in Ancient Rome and Greece, when it largely replaced the clay and gypsum mortars common to Ancient Egyptian constuction.[1]With the introduction of Portland cement (OPC) during the nineteenth century the use of lime mortar in new constructions gradually declined, largely due to Portland’s ease of use, quick setting and compressive strength. However the soft, porous properties of lime mortar provide certain advantages when working with softer building materials such as natural stone and terracotta. For this reason, while OPC continues to be commonly used in brick and concrete construction, in the repair of older, stone-built structures and the restoration of historical buildings the use of OPC has largely been discredited.[2]
Despite its enduring utility over many centuries, lime mortar’s effectiveness as a building material has not been well-understood; time-honoured practices were based on tradition, folklore and trade knowledge, vindicated by the vast number of old buildings that remain standing. Only during the last few decades has empirical testing provided a scientific understanding of its remarkable durability.
St Andrews Church, Hastings
The Bishop of Chichester opened St Andrews Church in Queens Road 30th November 1870. Robert Tressell,(real name Robert Noonan) was born in Dublin on the 18 April 1870, at 37 Wexford Street. He was author of the “Ragged Trousered Philanthropistsâ€, which was the semi-fictitous story of a group of builders & decorators working in Hastings at the time and the conditions in which they toiled. At the age of forty he died in the Royal Liverpool Infirmary (workhouse) hospital his cause of death was bronchial pneumonia and he was buried in a pauper’s grave, in Walton Cemetery. He never had the satisfaction and pleasure of seeing his book published.
He had painted a huge mural inside the church in 1904.
Demolition of the church began in August 1970. It had become dangerous and a group of people trying to save the Robert Tressell mural were threatened with eviction for being uninsured. Only one panel of the mural was saved and it is now on show at the Hastings Museum along with other mementoes of Robert Tressell. Demolition of St Andrews Church was completed in September 1970.@Praxiteles wrote:
A recent view of the interior of Sts Peter and Paul’s in Cork following a re-reordering of the sanctuary:
What was done here in the way of re-reordering Prax?
Not sure Prax,I know T.F. McNamara added the stained-glass windows over the high alta …He used Mayer of Munich on many of his projects..maybe here too…Its hard to find out much about this building…I never did find out whos wardrobe that was! nor am I able to find anything on the planning reference posted by Canus.
The plastering in carrick on shannon was only removed last year I think.
Even the infamous Richard Hurley would have to be able to improve on this though..
Apelles, Your perfectly right, many church interiors were redecorated in completley different decorative schemes throughout the years , some more ,and some less elaborate than the previous schemes. A recent restoration project in Limerick revealed three different elaborate decorative schemes in a side altar of the Redemptorist Church ,carried out between 1868 and 1942 each one completly obliterated the previous ,until finally being whitewashed in the 60’s, but now restored back to the original scheme of 1868 . The ‘ Early ‘ drawing of the Redemptorist Apse is definatley not St.Alphonsus church in Limerick, more probably dublin or dundalk. Early’s rarely worked in the decorative side of the business south of Dublin as Hodkinsons had established a strong business presence in the area from Sligo down to Cork and back up to Kildare.There was a friendly rivalry,and a mutual respect, between both businesses with each rarely venturing into the others territory. Of course , Earlys had a more varied business with their marble-works and stained glass business ,both areas into which Hodkinsons again rarely ventured , although they were agents for an English stained glass firm at one stage in their history. The decoration in Fermoy Parish Church may have been the only scheme as it remained in place for several decades.
Thanks for explaining that james1852 I often wondered if back then these competing firms would have been in anyway territorial..I like the idea of a friendly rivalry between them..(sneaking in for a peak when the rivals job was complete). I read in an interview that James Hodkinson came over to Ireland from Manchester in 1852 with James Earley & both firms were established in that year..Do you know if they served their apprenticeship together in Manchester? or if once established here they indulged in the old tradition that was apparently common then, of sending your own apprentice to serve their time or at least some of it with a rival company of decorators, or was it always Inhouse Training only?
my goodness prax you have been busy since yesterday..the Lawrence collection is fantastic viewing & seeing so many together gives a perfect window view into the past & also an overall feeling of how tumultuously these wonderous interiors have been discimated.
Appeles, what you say is generally ture but in the cqse of Fermoy it is a bit more complicated: Hodiknsons did the original scheme for the whole church ( and the plan survives in Hodkinsons archive) the Dublin Craftworkers only repainted the sanctuary. In circa 1952 everything was painted out with cheap war time suprlus paint except the angels painrted by the Craftwoerkers -which are painted on caqnvas applied to teh wall.
Do you know of any plans to digitise & create a database of the Hodkinsons archive?..A cross comparison of all these archives would lead to some very interesting conclusions I’m sure.
The inclusion of Sts Clement and St Alphonsus in the apse design above would suggest a connection with the Redemptorists. Praxiteles is not inclined to think that it ios Limerick – though the inclusion of St Clement here would at fiorst sight suggest that (but we already know that Hodkingsons of Limmerick did that interior). Perhaps someone ,ight look at teh Redemptorist monastery in Belfast or perhaps in Dublin as alternative candidates.
Quite possibly Prax but as we have seen before these interiors would have been remodelled & redecorated a number of times..correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Fermoy firstly painted by Hodkingsons of Limerick & later reworked by Craftworkers of Dublin? I’m sure that many beautiful interiors were wiped out only to be replaced with different beautiful interiors by other contractors…until more recently of coarse when they were wiped out to be replaced with white gloss & magnolia emulsion..or if you were lucky a flourescent pink!
