Sue
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Took a test run myself over the weekend. My guess is that the number of passengers using it between Sandyford and Dundrum will be relatively small because the line stays well away from human habitation between those two stops. There is an overhanging apartment block at Balally, but that’s the closest you get to significant centres of population for some time.
Overall, a smooth trip to Ranelagh, but crossing the road near Beechwood Avenue is a real pinch point, and a delivery lorry blocked the tram for about five minutes at Peter’s Place. Staff did tell me the 22 minute journey time from Sandyford-Stephen’s Green is being achieved, however.
Overall, I’m still impressed. Luas is going to be a big success and I reckon every part of Dublin will be clamouring to have it.
The Chelsea design is exactly the same as the one he did in Farmleigh last summer for the OPW. Why isn’t that a problem? Aren’t these designs supposed to be original?
Phil, I didn’t know there was Catholic imagery on the O’Connell monument – do tell us more. But I have no problem with that…. O’Connell secured “Catholic Emancipation”, so presumably the imagery relates to that political achievement and is not simply a bit of flag-waving by fanatics.
For the record, I deplore the blowing-up of the Buddhas, but because they made a genuinely artistic statement as well as a religious one. Marian shrines in this country, with no exception that I can think of, have no artistic or aesthetic value whatsoever – they are simply in-your-face, aggressive demonstrations of what should be private beliefs. Notice how these displays of icongraphy by fundamentalists are usually (a) built really high so that we all have to see it or (b) put in a really prominent position so that we definitely can’t miss it.
If the Catholics had their way, the Blessed Virgin would be at the top of the Spire. (But then she never did get up the pole, arf arf) 😀
What a load of old twaddle, Asdasd (and what a lazy moniker. Why didn’t you call yourself Qwerty ?)
Because I don’t want religious fanatics waving their icons in my face, you equate me with people (and they don’t even exist) who would burn down Georgian buildings cos the Brits built them.
Catholic statues are not part of an “evil” past, they are part of a pernicious present. I want them all removed, especially that Marian shrine on the pier at Dollymount Strand. Ireland is now a multi-denominational multi-cultural society and these icons cause offence to those of us who don’t do idolatry.
Catholics can put Mary or Padre Pio or whoever on a pedestal in their homes and worship them all day long, as far as I am concerned. But I want to be able to walk down the main street of my city without having religious relics waved in my dial.
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encased Sacred Heart: the taxi drivers shrine, erected by Dublin’s taxi drivers to celebrate the marian year of 19 whatever, i have to say this is one of my favourite things on o’connell street, its so domestic somehow, its like something in someones house, only bigger.what a load of nonsense. It’s another attempt by the Catholic fascist majority to shove their nonsensical beliefs down our throats
My understanding is there will be no more consultation before the “emergency” measures are introduced. As I said earlier, this was discussed at a traffic sub-committee meeting with three councillors present and they went along with it.
I think the council is genuine in saying that it will listen to what people have to say once the “emergency” measures are operational, but they are pretty confident that most people will say this is a good idea. “We are confident that we will be able to demonstrate that this is a better long-term scenario, with maybe one or two tweaks,” a senior council person said. “We are confident that people will see this is a better use of the road space.”
I think, unless there’s a major outcry, they will try to make these changes stick.
One thing I do find funny, though. This is a major change to traffic in Dublin, yet apart from this site I know of no-one debating what is going on. I get the feeling that the debate won’t kick off in earnest until The Irish Times finally get around to reporting what the council is planning… and until gurus such as Frank McDonald give their learned opinions…
The implications for Harcourt Street are that it will be denuded of cars – which is what the council wants. You won’t be able to turn right across the Luas, you will only be able to turn left onto Cuffe Street. Why bother? You can get there better via Camden Street. So Harcourt Street will be the preserve of Luas and buses. (Good!)
So, no one knows when the Green was last two-way, no?
Very good point about widening the paths on Stephen’s Green north – they are ridiculously narrow. During the height of the tourist season, and at lunchtimes, there’s no option but to step out onto the road…. and keep a grim hold on that takeaway coffee
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I’m not sure what the Cuffe St flow has to do with my Pembroke St point however.Doesn’t Merrion Row traffic go on to Pembroke Street via Lower Baggot Street, or am I mixing up roads?
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As a matter of interest where do they think the Cuffe to Merrion Row traffic will mainly go instead? Dame St, North quays or Canal ring? None are all that fluid.The report says: “Anyone wanting to get from Harcourt Street or Cuffe Street onto Merrion Row will have to go along Stephens Green South, left onto Stephens Green East, right onto Dawson St, right onto Molesworth St, right onto Kildare St, left onto Stephen’s Green North, and straight onto Merrion Row”.
Would you bother? I think only in an emergency….
Yes, the Loreto parents will be severely discommoded – the council factored that into their decisions!
The report is entitled Report to the Chairman and Members of the Traffic and Transportation Strategic Policy Committee, produced by the Roads and Traffic Dept. Given that it was presented to the traffic and transportation strategic policy committee, I don’t see why they wouldn’t hand it out.
They used the DTO Saturn model to provide an origin/destination matrix, and traffic count data from 2003 and 2004 to provide the traffic volumes for the Green. This found that the two dominant movements are Cuffe Street to Merrion Row (522 vehicles in the peak hour or 50% of Cuffe Street traffic) and Leeson Street to Dawson Street (855 vehicles in the peak hour or 67% of Leeson Street traffic). The former route is now made extremely difficult; the latter is being kept but going in a different direction along Stephen’s Green East.
I predict disaster if the proportion of traffic turning right at the top of Pembroke St to flow West towards the Green is doubled by this innovation.
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In addition to the current heavy stream (esp evening rush hour) you will have
(a) the (non bus) flow that currently comes up Kildare St and along SG East
(b) the flow the comes up Merrion St and through Ely place onto the GreenYES, BUT THERE WILL BE LESS TRAFFIC ON MERRION ROW DUE TO THE FACT THAT CARS CAN’T GO DIRECTLY ON TO IT FROM CUFFE STREET VIA STEPHEN’S GREEN WEST AND NORTH. AND, AS THE RESEARCH SHOWED, HALF OF ALL CUFFE STREET TRAFFIC IS DOING THAT.
One point I’d love to know: does anyone have a date as to when the Green was last two-way, even in part?
St Stephen’s Green East will maintain its bus lane running north/south (i.e. from Ely Place onto Earlsfort Terrace). The rest of the traffic on East will be south/north.
To get from Nassau Street to Cuffe Street you go up Kildare Street, turn right at the top onto Merrion Row (still allowed), onto Pemroke Street, Leeson Street, down Stephen’s Green south (now 2-way) and thence to Cuffe.
Official document is available – this was all discussed at a traffic subcommitte meeting on Thursday with three councillors in attendance (D. Heney and C. Burke among them). Also a NewsTalk reporter… who made a hash of reporting this on Friday morning, much to the consternation of DCC.
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Will vehicles wanting to turn right off the green into Merrion Row be allowed? I guess not – they’ll have to continue round, down Dawson, across Molesworth, up Kildare St and back out past the Shelbourne?
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Vehicles coming up Kildare St and heading for Earlsfort Tce will probably have to go out Merrion Row as well and turn right up Ely place and Hume st…
IF THEY TURN RIGHT UP ELY, THEY WILL BE DOUBLING BACK ON THEMSELVES – AT LEAST FOR THE MOMENT. COUNCIL MAY CHANGE DIRECTION ON ELY EVENTUALLYquote:
is a sudden spur-of-the-moment move by the CC, and they expect it to be completely successful.G. HICKEY IS RIGHT ON THIS. THERE WAS NO CONSULTATION EITHER, AND THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN. THE CORPO IS USING SLEIGHT OF HAND BY BRINGING THIS IN AS AN “EMERGENCY” MEASURE, WHICH THEY WILL THEN SAY HAS WORKED AND MAKE IT PERMANENT.
Still, in Ireland consultation means argument and delay. Sometimes totalitarianism works best!!!Surely the Iveagh Gardens are now the best known “well-kept secret” in the world. Nice as they are, there ain’t much to do in there except watch the Equality Authority mandarins eat their lettuce sangwiches.
If you don’t like Gardiner Street now, you should have seen it in the 1980s. It was like something out of Sean O’Casey – a delapidated slum. The unemployment office at the end of the street was a social sore, with hundreds of people queuing outside and surging in when the doors open – indeed RTE filmed it once and the footage became iconic.
The complaints about the modern buildings on Gardiner Street are fine as they go, but at least there are some modern buildings to complain aboutCrap Cinemas I Have Known in Dublin will be a chapter in my autobiography:
1. The one on Cathal Brugha Street – a hideous dump
2. The Screen on the Green – an armpit on St Stephen’s Green until the late 1980s when they finally took it out of its misery and built a shopping centre
3. The Lighthouse on Dame Street – arty farty fare and not room enough to swing a cat
4. Harold’s Cross – the late and unlamented. Where every flick had a break in order to force you to buy overpriced drink and choccies from their shop.
5. The Stella in Rathmines. Amazingly, still open. Is there a worse extant cinema anywhere in the western hemisphere?A Few With Character:
1. The Odeon on the quays – saw The Life of Brian there when they finally unbanned it
2. The Adelphi – not the worst
3. The Carlton – had a bit of character, I seem to remember. Screen 1 there was good in the old days (i.e. before they discovered surround sound etc.)Morlan: I think that no matter how beautiful the monument was it would have to have been removed at some stage – it being a symbol of Ireland under British rule etc.
USING THAT ANALYSIS, MORLAN, WE SHOULD BULLDOZER DUBLIN CASTLE, THE WELLINGTON MONUMENT IN THE PHOENIX PARK, LEINSTER HOUSE ETC. ETC. GET REAL!
Hypothetically Sue, if a beautiful giant statue of Oliver Cromwell graced the centre of O’Connell Street today, would you be more concerned about its visual impact or its sybolic impact
ITS VISUAL IMPACT. THE EASY SOLUTION IS TO TAKE CROMWELL OFF AND PUT SOMEONE ELSE ON – THAT’S WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH NELSON. YOU DON’T JUST GO AROUND THE PLACE BLOWING STUFF UP – UNLESS YOU’RE THE FASCIST IRA, OF COURSE
ER, COULD SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU PASTE OTHER PEOPLE’S QUOTES INTO YOUR SUBMIT REPLY!
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Hi Phil,
From memory, that Sunday Times piece was published on July 6, 2003 in the Sue Denham column.
I’m not sure what you mean by when the quotes start. Here’s the entire piece. Quotes from officials are cleared marked.SKATEBOARDERS have struck again. Dublin city council has been forced
to remove four granite seats from recently pedestrianised South King
Street because the skaters were making such a nuisance of themselves
to passers-by.First the council installed anti-skateboard bars around the already
graffiti-covered benches near the Gaiety Theatre. The skateboarders
still did their stunts. So the council reluctantly decided to remove
the benches, which cost about Euro 10,000, and they are now in
storage. “It’s a bad defeat for pedestrianisation,” one council
official admitted.Skateboarders are an increasing menance in cities. Dun Laoghaire and
Cork have specific problems, and the Bank of Ireland in Baggot
Street, Dublin, is beset by them. The Central Bank had to put a big
railing around its building to deter the baseball-cap-backwards
brigade. This appears to be the first time that street furniture
designed for general use has had to be removed because of the
nuisance.Plans are being discussed to set up dedicated skateboard parks,
including one in Lucan – high time for one in Dublin. Once they are
in place, skateboarding on streets should be made illegal, with hefty
fines for offenders.How disgusting of the IRA to blow that up. That scumbag organisation, not content with murdering and maiming people in the name of Irish freedom, also took it upon itself to erase part of our architectural heritage in pursuit of its dim-witted fascistic attempt to create a united Ireland.
Much as I like the Spire, O’Connell Street looked far better with Nelson’s Pillar.
GrrrrrThe Spire is “meaningless”: what a tired old saw that has become. Why the hell does it have to mean anything or do you, BulldozerGirl, need to have a plaque at the bottom of every monument to explain what it’s all about?
I’ve seen the full FOI file on the Spire. There were hot and heavy exchanges between Dublin-London, architects-contractors over how things were being done. Nothing to do with the design, though. They were minor rows about where to put slabs and why engineers weren’t turning up on time.;)
