The Spike

Home Forums Ireland The Spike

Viewing 979 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #705771
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Making a documentary on O’ Connell Sreet, and had an interview with Anne Graham, Project Manager of the Street’s redevelopment, last week. She says the Spike is to be erected by means of a 160 (maybe 180, can’t remember which) metre crane, the base of which will stretch from Henry Street, down to the taxi rank at the Gresham, which is why those trees were chopped first. It is due to move on site (in theory) in the last week in November, and in Dungarvan, where the Spike is being assembled in 20 metre lengths, 24 hour shifts are being worked to get it finished & up by Christmas. It should only take a day, or maybe two to erect it. Some poor unfortunate has to dangle up to 120 metres in a basket, from the crane, to bolt the pieces together, should be an interesting sight! Also had the honour of holding a sample of the Spike, it was approx 1 foot square and must have weighed about 4 kilos! The sample looked stunning, and combined with the weight factor and the difficulties in rolling and tapering the massive amount of steel, we are definitely getting value for our measly 4 million.

    • #721459
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I think I’ll camp out on O’Connell Street that weekend….

    • #721460
      Rory W
      Participant

      Get fjp and his camera there too

    • #721461
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Did Anne Graham say why its a taken so bloody long to get this far? Did she mention how long the rest of the street redesign will take?

    • #721462
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by Rory W
      Get fjp and his camera there too

      Why? are my photos not good enough? 😀

    • #721463
      fjp
      Participant

      I want up that crane. I really do. Despite the fact that my Liberty Hall shots are causing me great pain to stitch together (and we’re making a movie too – god bless DV cams and iBooks).

      Sounds great though. I must try and scab a better camera. And hats off to Paul, at least his photos are actually organised!!! (and he has a forum, and a proper search function, usefull accurate information, etc etc etc)

      fjp

    • #721464
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Must get up Liberty Hall again, my photos from the top were taken in 1995 so the city looks a little different.

    • #721465
      Rory W
      Participant

      Jeez, me and my big mouth

    • #721466
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I was up in Liberty Hall last week as well, the city really hasn’t changed much at all, still as like bombed out Beruit as ever. Dull, drab concrete monstrosties dominating the skyline, the cherry on the cake of course being Hawkins House,like a beacon, standing for everything Stalinist. Whatever about it’s appearance from street level, from above it is truly ghastly.

      Anne Graham says the delays to the spire are a result of the strike in the steel factory in France, and earlier on due to the lack of an EIS & the High Court etc.

    • #721467
      fjp
      Participant

      Paul,

      Are your photos from Liberty online? I wouldn’t mind a look…

      fjp

      (good old 1995)

    • #721468
      notjim
      Participant

      Graham you obviously haven’t been to Beruit, the bombed out bits really are very bombed out, the restored bits are really lovely and the bits that weren’t affected are a warren.

    • #721469
      GregF
      Participant

      That’s a point which architects don’t seem to consider of how buildings appearances age with time and how they will stand up to the weather and the elements.
      Much more bright sexy shiny glass needed in contemporary buildings here…….hold the red brick and pebble dash.

    • #721470
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      You’re right Greg in one regard, Irish towns and cities tend to long universally grim in the rain. Even the great buildings of Ireland with their stone facades look very foreboding in the rain. Sitting here this morning overlooking the Kings Inns and its so depressing looking in the rain. Its something to do with how the stonework goes almost black when wet. The brick squares of the georgian city are less depressing in the rain. There’s something about more modern buildings that they seem less gloomy on a wet day….

    • #721471
      GrahamH
      Participant

      ‘Bombed out Beruit’ is just a ‘Frank
      Mc Donaldism’, a figure of speech.

    • #721472
      kefu
      Participant

      I find Irish towns and cities look best in that sharp Autumnal/Wintry sun when it’s bright but still very shadowy. Partic the quays in Dublin.

    • #721473
      urbanisto
      Participant

      I find they look best in that gorgeous summer sunshine we get on May 23!

    • #721474
      GregF
      Participant

      But does’nt everything look good in the Sunshine!

    • #721475
      GregF
      Participant

      ……..well bar an Irish Summer

    • #721476
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      OOOh, no. All cities look best at night. That way, you can’t see the muck, the best bits are lit up, and the grim bits fade into the gloom.

      The floodlit Spike will be a wonder. I’m assuming they are lighting it, now?

    • #721477
      GregF
      Participant

      May not be able to light it now due to government cutbacks….will be lit for when it is first opened and for Xmas too but after that, darkness will reign upon the land…….may not have the money to replace the bulb.

    • #721478
      Paddyc
      Participant

      Anyone know where i can get info on new spike for dublin. Currently doing a project on it and need all help i can get.

    • #721479
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Here is info from the architects:
      http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike/index.html

      Also search in our news archives here:
      http://www.archeire.com/news/archives.cgi?f=keyword&keywords=spike

    • #721480
      Niall
      Participant

      When is the date for this actually going up?

      Any ideas?

    • #721481
      trace
      Participant

      Should start next week. Completion is highly weather dependent – if the wind gets up, work is impossible, as assembly tolerances between ‘can’ sections are so tight.

    • #721482
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I’m taking photographs every day from the same spot over the next few weeks as I’m only around the corner….

      First one this morning
      http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike_construction/index.html

    • #721483
      GrahamH
      Participant

      So am I. It’s brilliant that a crane is needed to construct the real crane!

    • #721484
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      See the photograph of a section in yesterday’s Sunday Times?

    • #721485
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      According to the Indo, the first section is going up ‘in the next few days’. In the Sunday Times pic it certainly looks as shiny as they promised – hope it doesn’t end up being obliterated by graffiti!

    • #721486
      Starch
      Participant

      yeah graham…wierd that you need a crane to put up another crane……………bit like a crane reaction

    • #721487
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Brilliant double page spread by Shane O’ Toole in the Culture section, the pieces were polished 24 hours a day for over a month, wow!

    • #721488
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Mr. Ritchie is a prime candidate for Pseud’s Corner. Writing bad poetry and describing his work as sculpture. Red alert! Red alert!

      Fortunately he is saved from himself by being a damn fine architect. I’ve yet to see a bad building by him. Let’s wait and see, but the Spire could well be magnificent.

    • #721489
      DavidF
      Participant

      Interesting photos of the Spire’s foundation

      http://www.qmcgroup.com/qmcinternational.htm

    • #721490
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      I had a look down O’Connell St last night whilst waiting for a Nitelink, and the crane was already twice the height of the buildings. It looks really ominous in the dark, and I was well annoyed I didn’t have my camera.

    • #721491
      fjp
      Participant

      And it seems I can’t get anywhere near the place due to my current work location, and will probably end up with no useful photos at all.

      hmm

      fjp

    • #721492
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      fjp the pace of change is so slow you’d have to camp there…. I’m only living around the corner so its easy…

    • #721493
      Niall
      Participant

      Just a thought..

      How have DubCC et al planned for the possibilities of someone raming the spike with a car/it being vandalised by grafitti (highly likely)/it being urinated on (even more likely!)?

      It probably will have all three done to it in weeks..

    • #721494
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by Andrew Duffy
      I had a look down O’Connell St last night whilst waiting for a Nitelink, and the crane was already twice the height of the buildings. It looks really ominous in the dark, and I was well annoyed I didn’t have my camera.

      This is the crane from Parnell Street… thats the Carlton in the foreground

      http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike_construction/9.html

    • #721495
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      I’m not sure what I’m looking at here – there seems to be two cranes and they don’t look sturdy enough to go 120 metres-plus…

    • #721496
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      its still on the ground… the main pivot is behind the builings in the bottom right corner….that will pull all the remainder off the ground…

    • #721497
      fjp
      Participant

      Here’s a bunch more photos. I got excited by the idea of a frickin’ huge crane and hopped on a ten bus.

      These are just in a directory, so there are no thumbnails. Click the image name and it loads.

      http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/

      And that crane is HUGE.

      fjp

    • #721498
      ro_G
      Participant

      as cranes go it’s lovely. any crane-o-philes might also be tempted by a rather large erection beside The Square in Tallaght.

      Forgive me if this question has been asked previously but when is the completion date on the Spire?

    • #721499
      Niall
      Participant

      Launch date for unveiling of the Spike in Dublin still up in the air
      By Kitty Holland

      Nobody seems to know when the spire for Dublin’s O’Connell Street will be finally unveiled.

      Already over a year behind schedule, we were told in April that it would be ready by September. Still, however, the capital is “spikeless”, and no one is quite sure when the “Monument of Light”, as it is officially known, will see some light.

      According to the project engineer on the spire, Mr Michael O’Neill: “It is hard to predict when it will be finished.”

      A spokeswoman for Dublin Bus said yesterday evening that the company had been advised by Dublin City Council that construction would begin this weekend, with an official unveiling planned for December 8th. However, a problem has arisen with embellishing the stainless steel exterior of the spire with the intended design.

      The spire is currently in six sections at Radley Engineering in Dungarvan, Co Waterford. Mr O’Neill explained that the design, said to be “reflective of what’s happening to the rocks beneath O’Connell Street”, had to be shot-peened (bombarded with metal shot) on to the spire’s surface.

      At the moment the engineers are endeavouring to shot-peen the design on to the first 10-metre-high section.

      The engineers’ chosen method was to put a layer of masking material over the surface of the spire to protect the metal, explained Mr O’Neill. The metal is then heated to the optimum temperature for the process. However, when the engineers shoot the tiny balls of metal at the surface, to create the dulled-effect design, the masking material is slipping.

      “We are going to spend the rest of the week cracking the problem,” said Mr O’Neill. The process is being supervised by architect Mr Robin Cross of Ian Ritchie architects in London.

      Asked what would happen if the problem was not resolved by the end of the week, Mr O’Neill said it was important that the engineers took as long they needed.

      “They are going to stay with it until they get it right,” he said. “The design element of the project was always going to be the hardest. The cutting, the welding, the bolting together is all very straightforward.

      “It has to be perfect, as the sections have be transported to the site ready. There is no way they can go back to Waterford for small changes once they have been brought to Dublin.”

      Gardaí in Dungarvan said they had been given no notice of when the first two sections would leave the Radley Engineering works. According to Mr O’Neill, the sections would be escorted through each county by that county’s gardaí on a tarpaulin-covered lorry. They would be brought to the outskirts of Dublin and held there until given clearance by the Dublin gardaí for the final journey to O’Connell Street, said Mr O’Neill.

      “It will probably be brought in sometime between midnight and 1.30 a.m. and tucked in behind the hoarding already up there in O’Connell Street.”

      Mr O’Neill estimates that the entire spire will be erected over a period of 12 to 14 days once the final assembly begins.

      He said there would be 10 to 15-minute traffic stoppages on O’Connell Street each morning and evening as the enormous crane, already in place, rises from and returns to its “sleeping” position in the morning. This process involved the crane swinging out over the street and could, said Mr O’Neill, be such a distraction to motorists as to be dangerous.

      When finally in place, the Monument of Light will be 120 metres high – about the same height as RTÉ’s main transmission mast in Donnybrook.

    • #721500
      fjp
      Participant

      The RTE mast really puts it into perspective…

    • #721501
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      I can see the crane from Harold’s Cross. It’s leaning down at the moment, so there’s no point in taking a photo.

    • #721502
      fjp
      Participant

      I hadn’t thought of it, but I just ran upstairs to the top story of this Georgian house on Baggot Street. And there’s the crane, stooped but visible in the distance.

      In a way the spike’s just going to be a giant thingy that says “Here is the middle of Dublin”. Nice…

      fjp

    • #721503
      GregF
      Participant

      Saw on the Irish Times letters page recently that some member of the general public suggested calling the Spike …..’An Cleadamh Solais’……the Sword of Light.

    • #721504
      kefu
      Participant

      Sword of Light was a suggestion by the National Graves Association, who preserve graves, monuments to those who died for Ireland. I thought it was a fittingly elegant name for an elegant monument.

      PS – Does anyone know what the Eiffel Tower was called before they decided to honour Gustave Eiffel.

    • #721505
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      The crane was fully extended for a while this afternoon, its back in the sleeping position now.

    • #721506
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Hmm Sword of Light… sounds like a name it might have been given in 1966. I think we’ve had enough of all that, thank you.

    • #721507
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Kefu, it seems always to have been called the Eiffel tower, because it was Gustave Eiffel’s engineering company that came up with the idea.

      It was for the World’s Fair of 1889, which commemorated the centenary of the French Revolution. So it is a monument.

      More particularly it celebrated French science and industry. Names of scientists are engraved on it somewhere.

    • #721508
      colinsky
      Participant

      so, if I can see the crane from my balcony, does that mean I’ll likely be able to see the spike as well?

    • #721509
      fjp
      Participant

      No. The Spike will ocasionally go out of phase with daylight when viewed from certain parts of the city. This means that even if you can now see the crane, you might only see an inverted area of sky in the space that the spike will occupy.

      This is similiar to the “white-out” effect sometimes experienced by pilots above snow filled landscapes.

      🙂

      fjp

    • #721510
      PaulC
      Participant

      Actually I noticed the same effect with the Trump Tower in New York – not sure if any of you are familiar with it. But if you look up to the top of it – it reflects the sky perfectly and looks like a cage frame in the sky. An amazing effect

    • #721511
      fjp
      Participant

      I actually just made that up, although the Trump thing does sounds cool. I will observe when I hopefully go there this summer.

      fjp

    • #721512
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      fjp, you are a wag and a seer and possibly a reincarnation of Flann O’Brien. Out of phase with daylight? Inverted area of sky? Such absurdist sentiments deserve to be true.

      Weird but true fact: shortly after the completion of the Eiffel Tower, optically strange climatic conditions meant that an inverted image of the tower appeared in the misty skies above it.

    • #721513
      mite
      Participant

      can anyone tell me what stage it’s at now? ok, perhaps i’m a little impatient… i’m not in ireland so i have been following progress on archeire and am looking forward to seeing it at christmas… Is the crane completely up? have they started on the actual spike yet? can we see anything at all?

    • #721514
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      nothing really… the wind is keeping the crane in the grounded position afaik

    • #721515
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Is that all that’s delaying it or are they still having problems with the details in Dungarvan?

    • #721516
      SeAnC
      Participant

      What is the height difference between the
      poolbeg towers in ringsend and the sword of
      light (or whatever they are calling it!).
      I presume the spike is smaller?

    • #721517
      DavidF
      Participant

      According to http://www.esb.ie the chimney stacks are 680ft (207m) I think the spire will be 120m

    • #721518
      JackHack
      Participant

      With all the talk of the height of the spike, do you not feel we’re slipping into the mentality that bigger is better and that’s what counts.
      I’d rather not know any of the statistics about the spike at all and just take it as I see it.

    • #721519
      DavidF
      Participant

      Is there any movement down at the site these days?

    • #721520
      SeAnC
      Participant

      Its just that I drive into town every day from swords and I can see the poolbeg towers a few times on the way (weather permitting). so I was wondering if I will be able to see the spire.

      I am looking forward to seeing it up. I think it will look brilliant and will add to the city despite what most Dubliners are saying. But most people are up for a good moan these days given half a chance. They have answers and an enlightened opinion on everything!

    • #721521
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Actually, I think bigger is better when it comes to building a monument that’s for the whole city.
      The more visible it is from afar, the more different contexts you can see it in.
      Like the Eiffel tower, that slips in and out of view all over the city, contsantly reminding you that you are in Paris.
      The World Trade Centre was an even better example, creating a sense of place as it rose up, sometimes unexpectedly, in the distance from within the different boroughs.
      And tall strutures help you find your way around.
      OK, I admit it, I just want to be able to see it from my flat…

    • #721522
      GregF
      Participant

      I agree. Tall and notable structures stratigically placed add a sense of easily finding locations within a city. They also add variation to the skyline.
      Dubin of old had this too in the form of the church spires and domes stretching into the sky. Somehow this concept has been lost today with our planners, making for a horizontal and rather drab city.

    • #721523
      SeAnC
      Participant

      who knows maybe people will say it is’nt tall enough in years to come!
      I was impressed with canary warff in london. I was staying in southgate which is north of london about six miles or something and you could see the red light on top of the building very clearly at night. It gave a good sense of where the centre of london was in relation to were i was staying. maybe the spike will do the same?

    • #721524
      Niall
      Participant

      Could anyone post the Irish Times article from this morning re: Friday the 13th and the Spire? The full version without the damn login.

      Thanks

    • #721525
      ro_G
      Participant

      on a similar note, will the Spire have a red flashing light on top, to ensure the odd low flying helicopter does not puncture itself on it?

    • #721526
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Yes the top 6 or 8 feet is a aircraft beacon and according to Shane O’Toole beautifully detailed. I have emailed Ian Ritchie architects re a photograph of it, but they haven’t responded.

    • #721527
      GrahamH
      Participant

      In relation to the Spire, I know its a bit late at this stage, but in the whole debate surrounding the structure at the beginning, not once was the major question of the complete lack of need for any structure or focal point in O’ Connell Street raised. The idea that the street has had an empty void at its centre for the past four decades, after the removal of Nelson’s Pillar, is ludicrous. The whole effect of the street relies in its continuity, its streamlined, ‘stretching into the distance’ effect.
      Nelson’s Pillar was a ghastly stout Doric pillar, perched on top of an unadorned chunky granite block, the size of a semi-d, (this coming from a person renouned for favouring all things classical). But as always, the rose- tinted spectical wearing sentimentalists won over (albeit 40 years later), and insisted upon a new monument. We should have grasped the opportunity to redevelop the street in a manner that accentuates its impressive, unbroken length and continuity, & ditched any plans for a monument. Saying that, if any structure was to go into O’Connell Street, the Spire is by far the one I would chose, it being the most elegant, refined, and dignified modern structure I have ever seen, a wonderful manifestation of classicisim, modernisim and fundamental good taste. A triumph of modern architecture.

      The Nine O’ Clock News on Friday said the building begins this week and should be finished by next Friday (20th).

    • #721528
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      I will be away this weekend, so will probably miss the erection of the first couple of sections. I trust Paul and fjp will be there with their respective cameras?

    • #721529
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      The pillar may at first have been an unneccesary intrusion on the street, but once you establish a monument of that size on such a central site, it becomes part of the landscape, whether its aesthetics are questionable or not.
      The pillar said, “this is the centre of Dublin”, and was treated as such by the people. It was before my time, but I’ve always seen the site as a gap just from seeing the old pictures and from my parents going on about it.
      By comparison, I don’t think anyone could call Liberty Hall good architecture either on its own merits or whether it’s right for its location, but Dublin wouldn’t be Dublin without it.

    • #721530
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Yeah, except I’m flying to Chicago on Saturday afternoon.

    • #721531
      fjp
      Participant

      jeez paul, lay it all on me then!!! 🙂

      Has anyone any idea of what time they’ll be kicking off at??

      fjp

    • #721532
      ro_G
      Participant

      now fjp, the trick is to get the Spire all in one shot from a very close vantage point.
      I suggest standing on increasing numbers of milk crates to taking pictures at different fjp elevations until you are at least at eye level with the top of the Spire and then stitching them together in photoshop when you get home.
      Shots taken from Westmoreland or D’Olier Street will instantly be dismissed as the works of amateurs 😉

    • #721533
      DavidF
      Participant

      Looks like there will be no start to the Spire tomorrow!

      From today’s Irish Times….

      Design difficulties delay Spire again
      By Kitty Holland

      The erection of the Spire in Dublin has been delayed again amid fears that it may end up looking like a barber’s pole.

      Mr Michael O’Neill, project engineer, dismissed reports that assembly of the monument would begin on Friday.

      “There won’t be any activity before the weekend,” he said. He hoped things would begin to happen next week. “But we’ve got to get the finish right first.”

      Mr O’Neill said two weeks ago, amid problems with the application of a protective masking material, it was “hard to predict” when the Spire would be ready for shipping to Dublin.

      The protective masking material, necessary while the design is being applied to the surface, has now been successfully applied.However, there is now a problem because of a lack of consistency in the design application.

      When the tiny beads of metal are shot at the stainless steel surface to polish and embellish it, in an engineering process known as shot-peening, “the design is having a tendency to stripe”, said Mr O’Neill.

      “It’s making the design look a bit like a barber’s pole,” he said. “It has to be a consistent finish and getting that right takes a bit of time.

      “It is only time, though, and it has to be right. If we got it wrong, if it looks ugly, no one would forgive us.”

      Asked what was causing the inconsistency, he said there were “a hundred-and-one permutations” of factors that could be causing it, including “the pressure of the application, the nozzles, the shroud around the nozzles”.

      The Spire, which is under construction at Radley Engineering in Dungarvan, Co Waterford, is in six sections. The first 10-metre section will be the first to have the design shot-peened on to the surface.

      Experts in shot-peening from the Metal Improvement Company in London have arrived in Waterford to help apply the design, said Mr O’Neill.

      At present, engineers were practising the application on waste metal.

      “Once we get it right and start applying it, it will be a matter of two or three days to complete the application.

      “I would reckon we would have news by the end of the week, on when it’s ready to come up to Dublin.”

      Gardaí in Dungarvan say they still have not been given notice of when the first two sections will leave Radley Engineering works. According to Mr O’Neill, the sections will be escorted through each county by that county’s gardaí on a tarpaulin-covered lorry.

      They will be brought to the outskirts of Dublin and held there until given clearance by the Dublin gardaí for the final journey to O’Connell Street, said Mr O’Neill.

    • #721534
      Niall
      Participant

      Another cock up…. Can anything be done properly and on time in this bloddy country?This whole spike debacle has become a farce, to name one farce on a whole list of them, Stadium Ireland, NDP, Luas etc…..

    • #721535
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      FYI:

      The NAtional Development Plan Website is down since Nov. 11. for “maintenance” thus are all projects scrapped?!!!!

    • #721536
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      Yes, this country is the pits. No Spike, no stadium, and not to mention hospitals. I am REALLY angry.:mad: 😡 😡 😡

    • #721537
      Starch
      Participant

      presumably a lot of you work in construction……….hold ups like this happen all the time……as the guy in the article said, it has to be done right……..we can’t have waited this long just for a barber shop pole to errected

    • #721538
      Rory W
      Participant

      Agreed, best to get it right rather than make a bags of it, we’ve wated 4 years a few days more wont be the end of the world.

      “If a thing is worth doing its worth doing right” – I’ve always believed in this motto

    • #721539
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      The Pole in the Hole, anyone?

    • #721540
      Desmund
      Participant

      Loyal orange lodge! Sorry, Laugh out loud!!

    • #721541
      Desmund
      Participant

      What aboot the Spear of Destiny?!?

    • #721542
      ED209
      Participant

      The Stiffy by the Liffey is the official one, is it not?

    • #721543
      fjp
      Participant

      Stiffy by the Liffey??? That’s just filthy…

      Although perhaps that “pole in the hole” one was filthy as well…

      Can’t we just go with the common or garden “spike” for now?? It’s less pretentious that the “spire”, and yet slightly respectful of what shall be the big shiney one.

      And if we don’t take it seriously, who will???

      fjp

    • #721544
      Rory W
      Participant

      I look forward to when they add the Giant Olive to it, before dropping the whole thing into the world’s largest Martini! ;->

    • #721545
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Respectful name for the Spike?
      I think after three years of a delay, news that they’re making a hames of putting celtic stripes onto it in Waterford, and watching the country’s biggest crane languishing in what threatens to become a permanent building site on our main street, we’re entitled to take it less than seriously.
      And ‘pole in the hole’ wasn’t meant to be rude. Honest.

    • #721546
      fjp
      Participant

      Perhaps take the actual Spike seriously, but rectally purify any politicians responsible for delays with 120 metres of stainless pain…

      Hurray – it’s filth day!!!

    • #721547
      RSJ
      Participant

      Only eleven more days to get your Christmas shot-peening done.

      (I’m really, really sorry I said that)

    • #721548
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Terrible, terrible joke. Tee hee.

    • #721549
      DavidF
      Participant
    • #721550
      colinsky
      Participant

      at this rate, we’ll have the twin towers reconstructed before you manage to get your spike up.

      (i suppose this old town needs some viagra).

    • #721551
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Our politicians have to be the biggest pack of retards ever…

    • #721552
      Paddyc
      Participant

      anyone know where design info for the spire such as wind loads may be available. need it 4 a project im doing at the moment.

    • #721553
      DavidF
      Participant

      Will tomorrow see the first section in place!!

      http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/1216/spike.html

    • #721554
      fjp
      Participant

      su
      weet

    • #721555
      ew
      Participant

      No sign of it this morning…
      Delays in packing it up meant it’s only got as far as Portlaois. First section (of 6?) should be here tomorrow morning.

    • #721556
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      News this morning quoted city council as saying it would go up ‘early in the New Year’.
      Crane seems to be fully extended, but not visible from street level at Dorset Street…

    • #721557
      LOB
      Participant

      I think it’s “completed by1st or 2nd week in January”.

    • #721558
      ew
      Participant

      I heard that “the stump” will be there for christmas though.

    • #721559
      fjp
      Participant

      Here’s the crane from the top floor of a Lower Baggot Street Georgian.

      Don’t forget – this is from far away (and that’s why it looks so small).

      I might try and nip down at lunch (state of apathy pending).

      fjp

    • #721560
      dpower
      Participant

      Is this a recent picture? Last I saw of the crane it was in an “A” shape. Is this the same crane extended? Just fascinated by cranes…..not very healthy really.

    • #721561
      dpower
      Participant

      Actually, if anybody knows the full construction process, (including crane particulars!) I would be interested in doing a flash animation to demonstrate the entire process.

    • #721562
      fjp
      Participant

      that’s the crane from about midday today (17th).

    • #721563
      fjp
      Participant

      Here it is again up close:

      click here!!!

      You’ll see directory contents (my spike directory). Today’s files are crane-021217-1.jpg (and 2 and 3 as well)

      fjp

    • #721564
      brunel
      Participant

      now THAT is a crane… must be costin’ ’em a fortune now that it will be sitting there doing nothing over the christmas…

    • #721565
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Brilliant photo fjp, the Spike rising out of the Georgian city, reaching for the skies. Oh, I feel a tear coming on, if you will excuse me….

    • #721566
      Anonymous
      Participant

      travelled up and down the M50 several times today, could easily see the crane, far higher than anything else on the city skyline (except for the poolbeg towers of course) heard too that the base would be up for christmas guess we’ll just have to wait and see !

    • #721567
      Rory W
      Participant

      First section is in O’Connell Street and should be up by this afternoon. Hooray

    • #721568
      fjp
      Participant

      Can the section be seen on O’Connell Street or it it hidden away already??? And for those who haven’t been down there in person, even the height of the crane creates a new precence on the street that’s very impressive, so the spike itself (wait for it sceptics) might actually be very good!!!!

      If that section’s visible I might hop a ten again at lunch. I’d also be happy to upload anyone else’s photos onto the web for people to see (photos would remain their property and not be displayed on my site – just in a blank addressed directory).

      fjp

    • #721569
      GregF
      Participant

      Aye the section could be seen lying aside this morning ……..but covered in tarpaulin.

    • #721570
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Heard (!) the first section being lowered into place at around 9am on Gerry Ryan. Hopefully RTE TV was there to record the moment for posterity. Pity they had to choose rush hour for what should have been a real event – I live nearby, but had to be in work.
      As for the cost of keeping the crane on site, the cost of the contract is apparently fixed.

    • #721571
      DavidF
      Participant

      The first section is in place – the ‘Breaking News’ section of the Irish Times ( http://www.ireland.com ) have a picture available

    • #721572
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Passed that way this morning, and the first section was vertical, but not yet in its slot. Shame I didn’t think to bring a digicam!

      It’s only about as tall as the GPO so far, so you won’t see it unless you go down there.

      Does anyone else think the crane would have been a better monument if they just left it there?

      James

    • #721573
      dara
      Participant

      heres a pic from this morning…

    • #721574
      CiaranO
      Participant

      Getting quite excited about the SPike just now.
      I am travelling into town to have a look in the next while, Id bring my digicam but for the fact that the battry takes three hours to charge to any decent level of usefulness!

      Im sure FJP or some other will take a decent photo anyhow!

      Im sure that a lot of the cynics in Dublin will be won over by the sheer scale of the finished project and when the protective wrapping is removed it will be quite a sight, glimmering in the rare Dublin sunlight.

      C.

    • #721575
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I’m surprised so few of you came out to see it being positioned, I suppose some people have to work! There was a brilliant atmosphere there, with about 200 people watching on (199 being media!) The crane started lifting at 9.15, and it was vertical in about 10mins. It took until 10.10 for it to be in fully in position, when everyone cheered. I could see who I belive was the City Architect and friends, standing on the roof of Ann Summers, whilst cameramen were sitting 5 storeys up on window sills and cornices, clinging for dear life onto their 150,000euro Betacams! Other people were on rooftops, holding onto chimneys. I had to make do with ground level, my trusty SLR and videocamera
      As said earlier, the first piece is just taller than the GPO’s pitched roof, and is wrapped in what looks like the worlds largest bin-liner. O’ Connell Street Project Manager Ann Graham was there and told me the next piece won’t be going up for quite a number of days. They are hoping to get 3 pieces up before Christmas and the remainder in the first few days of the New Year.

    • #721576
      fjp
      Participant

      I would have been there, but honmestly didn’t know they were putting it up this morning. Of course, I never listen to any Irish radion or news stations, so perhaps I’m partyl to blame myself…

      Anyhoo, there’s a bunch of fast shots added into my “spike” directory. They’re down the bottom, called spike-021218-XX” (seven shots – including “mad mary” dancing in her new location).

      Quality’s a bit dodge, so apologies:

      click here to see them, then just click the image name

      fjp

    • #721577
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Excellent photos! Would you mind if I stole one for my website?

      I notice (from the other side of town) that the crane seems to be lowered to its “kneeling” position again.

      Anyone know when the next piece is arriving?

      James

    • #721578
      ED209
      Participant

      Ian Ritchie on Today FM…….now

    • #721579
      GregF
      Participant

      I have to laugh ……read on the Irish Times today the comments of the Irish natives about the Spike………
      Miss Helen Ryan from Edenderry says the funds could have been better spent on the homeless. Someone should tell her that that great mythological figure Jesus once said that the poor will always be with us ….believe me but I have first hand knowledge of the ‘dependancy’ …’everyone owes me’ culture that exist here in Ireland. She recommended something more suitable in it’s place like a statue of Eamonn De Valera one of Ireland’s greats.
      Mr John Lawlor says the Spire never impressed him….he says it’s supposed to represent the country in the 21st century but he is not so sure.

      However……Ms Asta Kelly originally from Germany but living in Ireland for the last 30 years said the project was very daring and would be admired around the world. I think it is fantastic . It is a great piece of art.

      Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
      Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system.

    • #721580
      notjim
      Participant

      its so thin, i never appreciated how thin it was going to be. wow. its going to be great.

    • #721581
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      I agree, it will look amazing when finished.

      But my first choice would have been for something a bit like Nelson’s column at the bottom, but branching out into a flying saucer-like rotating restaurant at the top. Wouldn’t have been that hard to do, would it?

      James

    • #721582
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I’m not quite as impressed with it’s height as I thought (considering the height of the crane), although i’ve been looking at the pictures and proposals so many times that I suppose I have become immune to amazement about its size. Still going to look great though.
      The next piece should be positioned on/between Saturday and Monday.

      Paul Cunningham’s report on the Nine O’ Clock news was very hum-drum, not even a date for the next pieces, esp considering he was talking to everyone under the sun there yesterday. RTE’s typical neglect of reportage on our built surroundings.

    • #721583
      JackHack
      Participant

      An erection with a reflection, to be sure to be sure. Have they started making key rings & t-shirts of this yet or would Dublin City Council have some copyright on that? If they did the spike would probably be self financing, even profitable.

    • #721584
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      An excellent idea! You’d want to be careful about putting your keys in your pocket, though… could have painful consequences!

      James

    • #721585
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      I’m sure the Ann Summers shop nearby already sells some replicas.

    • #721586
      GregF
      Participant

      Hee hee …….good one Andrew

    • #721587
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I’m so looking forward to returning to see this. Interesting telling Canadians about the spike “and it has no purpose?” “no” “cooool”

    • #721588
      ew
      Participant

      That’s the attitude!

      See there’s 2 more sections arrived. One will be going up in the next couple of hours.

      This is so cool, you’ll love it Paul.

    • #721589
      fjp
      Participant

      I’ll nip down at lunch again. Photos up by three.

      fjp

    • #721590
      bigjoe
      Participant

      Originally posted by Andrew Duffy
      I’m sure the Ann Summers shop nearby already sells some replicas.

      rofl. 😀

    • #721591
      fjp
      Participant

      I’m a little late, but everyone in the office just went home – couldn’t get in.

      For those who haven’t seen it – it’s frickin’ gorgeous (this section is not under plastic). The steel looks extremely “creamy”, and words like “silky” and “smoothacious” could also apply. What’s more, it looked good even on a typical crappy wet Irish afternoon (which is really something). Colour-wise it’s not what I expected. I thought it would be more of a typical stainless steel colour, but it gives a very different impression (due to size I suppose) that’s most impressive. It even matches the colour of the GPO stone – ie, it actually fits in very very nicely in every respect.

      The new images in my spike directory (down the bottom) are fairly accurate in terms of colour, so it should give those far away folks an idea…

      Or has everyone gone away for Christmas???

      anyhoo, click here for another nineteen spike photos fresh from photoshop

      And a Happy Christmas to Each and Every One of You.

      fjp

    • #721592
      Desmund
      Participant

      Thanks fjp,

      I look forward to seeing it “in the flesh” so to speak, when I get back to Dublin on 3rd Jan. Do you reckon it will be complete by then?

      Happy Christmas to all

      Des

    • #721593
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      I was down there yesterday, and I must say it looks good!

      I don’t know where piece number 3 had got to by that stage, because I didn’t see the truck in the photos around at that stage.

      It’s interesting that the two arrived together. I wonder why they aren’t able to get the next one up before Christmas.

      James

    • #721594
      SeAnC
      Participant

      where did u take the last picture from fjp. remiends me of prague when i departed from it on the train (surrounded by a ring of filthy flats)

    • #721595
      fjp
      Participant

      I presume you mean this photo here.

      It’s the view from Dundrum. A photo taken through binoculars (dodgy, but better than nothing). But yeah, Ballymun looks like its got the horizon covered, although this is very narrow angle of image.

      fjp

    • #721596
      SeAnC
      Participant

      cheers,
      Very clever idea with the ole bi-noc-ulars btw.

    • #721597
      colinsky
      Participant

      so, i’m aware of the light at the top, but am I correct in inferring that the spike will _not_ be flood-lit at night?

    • #721598
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      It will be lit from inside. The top third has perferations to let light out.

      James

    • #721599
      Anonymous
      Participant

      afaik the lower sections are to be gently light by floodlights mounted on surrounding buildings …

    • #721600
      trace
      Participant

      . . . and uplit from the chamber below, through a narrow gap left between the spire and its bronze base plate (afaik).

    • #721601
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      That does sound cool, now. After all, the original name was to be the “Monument of Light”, so it figures.

      I passed it yesterday evening, and it looked rather odd because the main source of light on it was the Christmas tree, which was all from one direction.

      James

    • #721602
      Lugh
      Participant

      Doesn’t anyone see that spending such a lot of money on what I call the junkies needle is wasteful.? The amount DCC has spent on clocks and cranes and this needle is astounding. !!!Think of the great ways that money could be spent. They seem to think the tourists will love this monument ..I think that they would love to see a city with no homeless even more!

    • #721603
      pvdz
      Participant

      I dont know why you feel so isolated there Lugh, there are thousands of people just like you who think that the ‘junkies needle’ is a waste of money.

      as someone pointed out earlier, ‘the poor will always be with us’. It was that jesus guy who said that and i think you could do yourself and every other Joe Duffy listener in the country a favour by popping in to the new homeless persons unit on Gardner street with the entire spike budget and dispersing it among everyone in the line. Then walk around the streets and see how many people are sleeping rough! It will be exactly the same as previous nights. People are homeless for a reason, no amount of fast cash will fix the problem as it needs much more attention. We need to set aside consistent funding for problems like this, and even then the problem will not be solved, it is never ending.

      However there is absolutely no reason to discontinue art and cultural pursuits as a result. They are also important (to other people obviously) and must also demand funds. We are human beings and need stimulation and challenge not just for rapid monetary gain. It is not merely our purpose to eat, shit and reproduce.

      However if you do feel that this is the case, then may god bless you, there will always be a spot here in Fianna Fail for you!

    • #721604
      GregF
      Participant

      Don’t want to be a whinger but when I first saw the base of the Spike I was a bit disappointed that I could see the joins of the sections……however it it already a great focal point for the city……and it is not that bloody big either….the width and the height …(if it’s to equal the height of the crane that’s there). Sad to see the Cro Magnon Irish public on TV give out about it…………aka the dirty Dubs …… would they want to see Nelson back on his podium…. that great exponent of the once colonial British Empire…….I bet they would ….so as to go with their great support of Man U and Liverpool whilst they buy An Phoblacht on a Friday evening. Mixed up ignorant b******s.
      I’m a Dub too, but I know my loyalities and what’s best for Dublin City, the Capital of Ireland.

    • #721605
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Interesting article in The Observer newspaper over the Christmas detailing the 10 ‘must see’ architectural events of 2003 among themt the unveiling of the Spire in mid-January. Its good to see that we can muster an event of international architectural prominence.

      I also recieved a very detailed letter from the O’Connell St Project Manager outlining the schedule for the redevelopment of the street. The project is due to take place over three period: Henry St to Abbey Street in by Dec 2003, Abbey Street to O’Connell Bridge in 2004 and Henry Street to Parnell Street in 2005!! Don’t hold your breaths eh!
      Interesting, I was walking down O’Connell Street over Christmas and could hear a guide bus giving commentary on the street. I imagine all those tourists thought they had got their moneys worth looking at the mess it is now!

    • #721606
      ED209
      Participant

      Originally posted by GregF
      Don’t want to be a whinger but when I first saw the base of the Spike I was a bit disappointed ……………I’m a Dub too, but I know my loyalities and what’s best for Dublin City, the Capital of Ireland.

      For crying out loud, calm down.

      People for, people against, end of story, Dub, not Dub, so what?

    • #721607
      GregF
      Participant

      I think you’ve missed the point, by a long shot……and that is, those against the spire are a visually illiterate general public decrying proposals for the city when they know SFA about civic architecture. They’re criticisms are based on what limited art education they got in school, the oppinions of the public media aka the British tabloids and the Herald, and not forgetting the plight of the ‘homeless’ who could have had the 4 million cost funds instead…. so they say.

      (Maybe all those concerned about the homeless could take one or two of them home so as to care for them and maybe McCreevy could put aside funding of E40 million anually or more for them. We would then see the publics pseudo christian attitude change.)

    • #721608
      ED209
      Participant

      What you are saying wreeks of snobbism. By the way, what is ‘Art Education’ ? Sounds like ‘brainwashing’ to me. All I want to say is that people are perfectly entitled to like or dislike what they choose, without being labelled a west Brit by someone who pretends to have superior ‘taste’.

      I am in favour of the spike, I saw it last week, it is not as nice as I would have hoped, the fabrication is shoddy, but I am still in favour. What annoys me are people who see it is a crusade against Dubliners, usually, who are supposedly under ‘educated’.

    • #721609
      GregF
      Participant

      No snobbism here mate….any snobbism that may exist is that held by the great unwashed against an artistic education. Such would appreciate Man U, Eastenders, more etc than a drive to improve their own civic environs. It’s strange how you fail to see such a predominant element of Irish society. As I have always said ask any of them to direct you to the National Gallery of Ireland and they would’nt have a clue where it is………yet they are to have a right to comment on things artistic.

    • #721610
      fjp
      Participant

      the “snob” word is dangerous (and most forget that it works both ways – up and down).

      compare architecture to music if in doubt. would you really want someone passing judgement on a record if they never listened to any music, or only listened to what they heard on the late late show. ideally someone who criticises music should have as much knowledge about it as possible and an understanding of the history involved.

      well the same goes for architecture. so the point is this: you wouldn’t trust your deaf granny’s opinion on your favourite band (as it would be ill-informed), and there are people out there who shouldn’t be trusted on architecture.

    • #721611
      ED209
      Participant

      Originally posted by GregF
      No snobbism here mate………….yet they are to have a right to comment on things artistic.

      have a right? everyone has a right….

      Besides if a ‘journalist’ sticks a microphone in someones face on Talbot street and asks: ‘what do you think about…….?’, are they supposed to answer: ‘Sorry i have no right to comment, I never went to art school, and I only got six months into architecture at UCD but i gave it up as I had to earn some money instead.’

      FFS

    • #721612
      ro_G
      Participant

      Getting very far off topic here lads, but lets just say there are two generalised opinions, 1) those of closed circle professionals, who generally do not publish outside their own field – e.g. this website is aimed at architects, designers and those with interests about reading in depth about issues from informed people. and 2) the general populace, who by their very nature do not have the search time, consciousness or sometimes, education, to find informed comments or contribute to debates about such matters.

      These two sets of people may not overlap and may not communicate … it does not mean one or the other is wrong, stupid, overeducated, or that horrible phrase, unwashed, but what will happen is that over time the monument will either endear itself to the populace or revile them to the point of it being removed.

    • #721613
      ED209
      Participant

      here here, I apologise if that got a bit strong, and all that I would say to close is that, in my opinion, this idea of a closed cell of professionals who consider the public to be uncapable of appreciation, not everyone can go to art school, does no favours for the discipline and serves to further distance architects and the like from the public domain.

      I rest my case.

      Ps I am an architect…….

    • #721614
      GregF
      Participant

      Look…… jesus!…… ..what is the problem ………no body owes any body anything……… much to the ethos that prevails here in Ireland ……..Whether you are rich or poor…..you can still take a trip along to your local public library and enlightened you little mind to the delights of the knowledge that is known to mankind……whether it be Mills and Boon your preference…..or Plato’s Republic ……or Puccini or Tom Jones or Bernini’s Baroque Sculpture, or Zuggerats and Ancient building….or Stir Fry Cookery or Gardening Today………etc, etc ……it is all there for the general public to learn. I made great use of the ‘Libo’ when I was long enough unemployed in the impoverished starving eighties and I am not from an academic background.

    • #721615
      fjp
      Participant

      I’d like to remind “people” about that music comparison point I jsut amde, since I feel ED209 should re-examine it once more. This has got nothing to do with “rights”. it’s to do with some people understanding/appreciating things better than others.

      I’m not an architect (just look around a lot), but I do think I get some of what’s going on. I just came back from London (again) and it’s full of modern things that would never be allowed in Dublin, but which are simply fantastic.

    • #721616
      alastair
      Participant

      I’m a fan of the spike too (also a bit disappointed at the visibility of the panels, and hope they clean up the scuffs visible on the east side of it), but the notion that the great unwashed shouldn’t comment on a public venture, paid for with their money, is both elitist and misguided.

      You don’t have to be a health care manager to comment on the operation of tallaght or monaghan hospital. If your perception was that they were being mismanaged/underfunded you would have no problem with complaining. No-one is going to die from a lapse of judgement on a piece of civic art (unless the engineers get it wrong) but the same criteria apply. It’s a CIVIC project, and joe soap is as much the client as the next man.

      Education and appreciation of art/design/architecture is something we have far too little of in this country, but I won’t be signing up to an elitist clique telling everbody else what is good for them, with no recourse. Romania anyone?

    • #721617
      GregF
      Participant

      I’ve posted this already…..

      I have to laugh ……read on the Irish Times today the comments of the Irish natives about the Spike………
      Miss Helen Ryan from Edenderry says the funds could have been better spent on the homeless. Someone should tell her that that great mythological figure Jesus once said that the poor will always be with us ….believe me but I have first hand knowledge of the ‘dependancy’ …’everyone owes me’ culture that exist here in Ireland. She recommended something more suitable in it’s place like a statue of Eamonn De Valera one of Ireland’s greats. (ahem!)
      Mr John Lawlor says the Spire never impressed him….he says it’s supposed to represent the country in the 21st century but he is not so sure.

      However……Ms Asta Kelly originally from Germany but living in Ireland for the last 30 years said the project was very daring and would be admired around the world. I think it is fantastic . It is a great piece of art.

      Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
      Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system.

    • #721618
      alastair
      Participant

      Originally posted by GregF
      Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
      Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system.

      making any judgements based on three individuals selectively quoted by a journo is the height of folly.

      I would imagine design education is far superior in germany though (ie they have some).

    • #721619
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Personally I think the comments of members of the public as reported in the media are very selective. On the day the second section went up TV3 (informative, broad-minded, cutting edge…yeah right) reported on the opinion of some ‘gas’ Dublin ‘characters’ who disagreed with the Junkies Needle. But there were no positive comments as I am sure there must be. The same with the newspapers, especially the populist leaning newspapers.

      You have to be careful making a generalised observation when the source is selective news stories.

      Anyway as I keep telling anyone I know…. its not even half complete yet! Its still has 4 or more sections to go up and the base to be fixed and the wrapping to come off…

    • #721620
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, irrespective of education. But in a rational society, you have to give greater weight to better- informed opinions.
      The vox pops have certainly not been selective – I was down there when the second bit was going up and everyone was commenting as they passed – ‘stupid’, ‘what’s it for’, ‘waste of money’, ‘the state of it’, etc. At one point, they were practically queuing up to share their pearls of wisdom with the TV cameras.
      If everything was a popularity contest decided by public consent, you’d never get anything daring or innovative built. The public has to take some of the blame for the way Ireland looks today.
      The reason our cities are ruined with space-wasting semi-Ds and countryside covered in ugly bungalows is because that is where the housing market has driven architecture.
      That’s how the people want to live and that’s what your ‘man in the street’ thinks is good design.
      Yes, the Spike is being built with public money, but at some stage, you have to let those whose job it is to run the city to make the tough decisions.
      I think the vox pops we’ve seen on the Spike show the depth of ignorance in Irish public opinion on art and architecture. The two main objections seem to be:
      -What’s it for? It doesn’t do anything.
      -Why couldn’t the money be given to the homeless?
      Well, the national gallery is full of stuff that doesn’t do anything, why don’t we throw it all out and fill it with useful things like buckets and engines and hammers?
      And then there’s this illsuion that there’s a central Art or Homeless fund that denies a poor person food and shelter for every non-essential public project.
      Nothing else in Ireland that gets public funding is attacked for taking from the homeless in the same way. All because it doesn’t ‘do’ anything.
      If you take the moral argument to its conclusion, the Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal would never have been built – useless monuments in countries full of poverty.
      I don’t care where they went to school, but I think most people in this country don’t care much about their built environment. So I’m not paying much attention to the vox pops.

    • #721621
      alastair
      Participant

      Originally posted by AndrewP
      Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, irrespective of education. But in a rational society, you have to give greater weight to better- informed opinions.

      If you take the moral argument to its conclusion, the Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal would never have been built – useless monuments in countries full of poverty.
      I don’t care where they went to school, but I think most people in this country don’t care much about their built environment. So I’m not paying much attention to the vox pops.

      I’d agree with most of your points but…

      This isn’t a ‘rational society’ issue. It’s about art (to a greater or lesser degree), and art has little to do with rationality. The role of civic art is fraught with uncertainties and conflict, but it does seem to be about dialogue, and shouldn’t be defined solely by an elite of any kind.

      The Eiffel tower was built with a useful purpose in mind; the proclaimation of France as a world leading empire with science and technology to rival the best. It may not have ‘done’ anything, but it’s significance as a standard was obvious to all. The Taj Mahal wasn’t a civic project (and had a defined purpose, just like the pryamids), so it doesn’t really equate.

      When you spend public monies on any project without ‘practical’ benefit you are bound to get a lot of dissent. Personally I think that the public cost/social return equation for the spike is probably better than Abbotstown (If it had happened, and certainly better than the money spent for the nothing we did get). I wouldn’t read any sort of antipithy towards progressive architecture into it (hmmm. on second thoughts).

    • #721622
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Don’t you think the Spike is trying to say something about Ireland the same way the Eiffel Tower was saying something about France?
      Even if it’s just that we have (had!) a lot of money and we can afford big shiny monuments…

    • #721623
      CiaranO
      Participant

      i agree with AndrewP here and believe that more people than is outward;ly obvious think the spire will be an attractive addition to the city.

      All of my friends think this is a good thing fo the city and are excited about it and they are made up of DUbs and others.
      Here is the link to the Guardian’s must-see openings of 2003; http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,865649,00.html

      Im sure more people will think good of it when it is unveiled and they realise it is something to be proud of.
      C

    • #721624
      EoinN
      Participant

      I myself am not an architect, nor from Dublin ( I’m a culchie) , but:
      Check out – if you are registered – the Irish Times feedback forum from a few days ago. The vote was 50/50 in favor of the Spire and the comments were even more skewed in favor – the most orthodox ( What about the homeless? ) comments being the least articulate.

      As an aside : I traveled on 2 bus tours in cities last year : one in New York , the other in Dublin.

      The Dublin tour-guide was full of disgust for anything that was built by the Irish since independence. He was full of self demeaning anti-Irish remarks ( i.e. “pubs and Churches – Sums us up doesn’t it!”) and loved only the architecture built by the British or Norman.

      The New Yorker was full of verve , joy and love of his home town and discussed animatedly the plans for the World Trade center site. He was, if anything, more working class than the Irish guy ( I detected a D4 accent there).

      It is pretty remarkable what little culture we have produced as a nation since independence. And so little pride. Of course we have produced some literary culture – but that can’t be considered the culture of the State, or people : it is private culture ( I can imagine some witless luvvie stumbling upon James Joyce though, and asking him if he was going to continue work on that incomprehensible book or go help the homeless. [shrill voice] “What use is your book. What does it do?!!!”).

      Architecture is primarily – these days – the art of the State, or mostly sanctioned by the State, and thus is the real expression of the people in a democracy, and we have produced so little of it.

      This despite the fact that Dublin/Ireland is one of the richest places per capita in the world : and thus in the history of the world. Look at what (a much poorer) Athens produced in its heyday.

      All rich cultures and generations leave something behind. Some art. Even tribal societies. We leave behind semi-detached houses stretching to infinity.
      Sums us up, doesn’t it?

      As an aside: tourists visit places for architecture, climate, situation and culture , among others, and not because of the absence of homeless people. San Francisco has more homeless than Fargo, for instance; And many more tourists.
      Further, the city spent $400 million on homeless people this last year. The transient population trends at about 4,000 at any one time; so that is $100,000 each.

      Lots more expensive than the spire: and didn’t solve the problem.

    • #721625
      alastair
      Participant

      Originally posted by EoinN
      San Francisco has more homeless than Fargo, for instance; And many more tourists.
      Further, the city spent $400 million on homeless people this last year. The transient population trends at about 4,000 at any one time; so that is $100,000 each.

      Lots more expensive than the spire: and didn’t solve the problem.

      completely off topic, but that’s complete nonsense (of the sort propagated by the bill o’reillys and rush limbaughs of this world)

      There are no reliable figures for the homeless population of SF, but it’s in the 5,500 – 6,000 bracket, and the budget allocated to dealing with the problem in SF stood at around $30 million in 2000
      (see http://www.sfbg.com/News/34/28/other.html )

      and I don’t think anyone was suggesting pitting tourism v homelessness. The issue was where is the right area to spend taxes.

    • #721626
      CiaranO
      Participant

      trying to be a devil’s advocate here, lets see if we can get an answer.

      Can the spire’s spending be justified in the light of social standards in Dublin?

      C.

    • #721627
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      Look – no project is safe if we judge it on the basis of costs vs what else we could spend it on. The Spire is really going to change O’Connell Street – already, incomplete, it nonetheless has renewed interest in a street that has been neglected for too long. If the Spike achieves little else than the rejuvination of O’Connelle Street, then it is priceless. 🙂

    • #721628
      CiaranO
      Participant

      cheers for the answer at least,
      I dlike to hear more opinions on this matter though.

      But i do agree with the attention and rejuvenation point, this too is impossible really to quantify thereby it will not be seen by many in the public as a justifiable reason.

      C.

    • #721629
      Lugh
      Participant

      When I first saw the design for the Junkies Needle I thought how little imagination was used in the design.Who is the lady in the corporation who judged the contest and didn’t even see fit to select an Irish winner? Surely It won’t stand out as one of the greatest eye catching designs of modern man. It’s just a needle after all. A child could have come up with that idea. I’d have enjoyed seeing a tasteful , intelligent and maybe more aesthetically pleasing piece rather than a pile of expensive metal turned into a mere needle. !!!

    • #721630
      alastair
      Participant

      any more cliches you care to roll out?

      an irish entry didn’t win because they weren’t as good. the best of the bunch was chosen (just like every other fair competition). Obviously it’s a subjective decision, but spare me the need to throw up second rate irish options.

      You don’t like needles? Fair enough. It’s a simple concept/structure, but theres no requirement to complicate a concept for complexity’s sake. By your criteria we should have some baroque contraption that defies simple reproduction. Those Mies buildings are a bit simple too aren’t they? A child of three could draft them up no bother.

    • #721631
      RSJ
      Participant

      If nothing was ever done just for the joy of it, but only for strictly-defined needs at lowest possible cost, then:

      No Taj Mahal
      No Sydney Opera House
      No Durham Cathedral
      No Guggenheim
      No St. Mark’s Campanile, Venice
      No Alhambra

      (add your own here)

    • #721632
      Niall
      Participant

      I agree, stop all this navel-gazing. I thing it’s a bold move putting the spike up, to be commended. Just, a pity it took so long…….

      If anything the huge waste of resources and the work practices of the public services should be examined and not a structure and development to clean up the main street of our capital city…

    • #721633
      GregF
      Participant

      I always hark on about this….and will repeat myself again……but in our short lived boom, whilst we wallowed in millions and a good life was to be there to be grasped by all, we had many new landmarkish developments proposed for Dublin city centre. Prominent among them being the Spire which is near completion, 2 bridges by reknowned architect Calatrava ….one of which is near completion, the ill-fated National Conference Centre designed by reknowned Irish/American architect Kevin Roche which would have enlivened the now emerging boring docklands, a National Stadium and sports campus proposed by the government but shot down, the port tunnel and the LUAS to relieve traffic congestion now under construction and a Metro for the city centre which is not.
      All major projects that should have been built…..to add significantly to the capital city. A fool would have objected to the lot and such is the great loss to our still ‘provincial British city’.

    • #721634
      Rory W
      Participant

      Another section going up today (6th Jan) really looking forward to seeing it – however be warned!!! That Ukrainian emigre artist woman (the one who wanted the reconstruction of the Nelson Pillar with a giant golden globe on top) is posing as a journalist and doing vox-pops of her own. If she doesn’t like what you say (i.e. if you actually like the Spire) she gets into a shouting match with you saying “you know nothing about art….” sore loser or just plain nuts?

    • #721635
      Anonymous
      Participant

      just plain nuts Rory 🙂

      ” The third section of the Dublin Spire will be erected later this week. It had been planned to go up today. “

      – from RTE, don’t know what the story is, the crane is not up yet anyway …

    • #721636
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      any idea of time?…

    • #721637
      Trich1
      Participant

      Hello, I’m new to the site and forum! I just wanted to let you all know – if you weren’t aware already – that there’s a good webcam for watching The Spike’s installation progress:
      http://193.120.149.58/camera03.jpg.

      The webcam is situated at the top of O’Connell street, close to the Parnell statue, facing down O’Connell street.

    • #721638
      Trich1
      Participant

      Oops that link doesn’t work for some reason…..try this one: http://www.dublincity.ie/traffic/camera/OConnell_Street_Parnell_Street.htm

    • #721639
      Anonymous
      Participant

      yep, that one is from dublin city council’s traffic website at:

      [url=http://]www.dublincity.ie/traffic/traff.htm[/url]

      It’s also visible from another webcam run by camvista (the best webcam of dublin) most of you are probably familiar with it already, it runs through several shots every minute & the spike is visible in one of them …
      Wrote and asked them to divert the camera towards the spike or to ask if they would consider setting up a temporary cam to cover it (they do a lot of that kind of thing) but no reply … anyway here’s the link

      [url=http://]www.camvista.com/ireland/dublin/liffey.php3[/url]

      okay doesn’t look like they’re working so just type them in manually & you’ll get there …
      :confused:

    • #721640
      PaulC
      Participant
    • #721641
      Niall
      Participant

      On a rather bizzare note if you look at the camera from the other end, i.e. O’Connnell bridge is the thing aligned properly or is the traffic Island the one out of place?

      Just a thought, here is the link……

      http://193.120.149.58/camera06.jpg.

    • #721642
      fjp
      Participant

      you want bizarre??? slight boredom on my part presents the strangest view yet:

      http://216.73.101.144/camera07.jpg

    • #721643
      CiaranO
      Participant

      is that it with the third section up now?? seems a lot higher than last night!

      C.

    • #721644
      fjp
      Participant

      um – that was me playing with photoshop….

    • #721645
      GregF
      Participant

      Hee hee ……good one………

      Wow, that’s high ain’t it ……..god we’ll all get vertigo and nose bleeds at the height of the thing as it goes up and up.
      I was on the bus into work this morning and heard a couple, aka a South African chap and a Danish girl, talk very aloud about me native city saying that all the buildings were very low. They noted that stylish new tall glass building in Blanchardstown as we passed it and then commented jokingly on the Mickey Mouse pastiche 3 storey appartments in the vicinity. It was cringe inducing to think that we are generally a land of low aspiration midgets.
      Up the Spike and up and up with it too.

    • #721646
      CiaranO
      Participant

      haha well done FJP! Now that I look closer its not a bad job with the oul photoshop! BUt i should have known! I almost went up to O Connell street tonight too! Imagine my surprise! LOL

      GregF,
      you really do suffer from quite an inferiority complex dont you. I wrote a rather long response to one of your texts last night (re: still a provincial british city) and only thanx to the great enigma that this site is, it was erased. Not willing to waste anymore of my time, I think I will from here on ignore your rather self-depreciating toned posts, that are of the bimboesque quality that size really matters, and being of a general opinion that if it’s Irish it must be bad, or at best worthy of some condemnation. Of course Denmark, with its great taxes, and SOuth Africa with its friendly society would be much greater places to live in, of only for their 20+ storey buildings.
      Oh woe is thee!

      C.

    • #721647
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by CiaranO
      I wrote a rather long response to one of your texts last night (re: still a provincial british city) and only thanx to the great enigma that this site is, it was erased.

      I would just like to point out that we didn’t erase anything.

    • #721648
      GregF
      Participant

      Keep living in your little land of insignificance Ciaran O………and sure ‘everything will be grand’ won’t it.
      ‘Ye’ll never improve yourself if ye cannot first critisize yourself’…..now who said that, David Brent ye say?…….Buddha?……..or was it Roy Keane?……but I suppose people have different levels of standards and standards of levels.
      Sorry for offending your patriotic sensibilities but it’s such sensibilities that has kept dear old Ireland backward for years Ciaran …..and it can be seen in the standard of architecture which is around you today, but that’s if you open your eyes. It is plain as the nose on your face.
      ‘Architecture is an outward reflection of a society, indeed it is a reflection of civilization itself’…..I think Plato said that or was it John Fitzgerald.

      A Spire, A Spire, Aspire.

      Profound or Profane!

    • #721649
      CiaranO
      Participant

      Originally posted by Paul Clerkin

      I would just like to point out that we didn’t erase anything.

      no i accept that Paul, cheers I meant rather that it sometimes deosnt run smoothly this site, and having posted it, I got a duff page, and when i went back to the page on which i had typed it originally it was gone, and i could nto be bothered to repeat it!

      GregF

      Of course my world is insignificant. It is not the one you pervade. The one of ‘sure it’s all shite isn’t it’. the post colonial mind that once independence has been achieved tries to gain the upper hand by being like the previous oppressors. Your opinions that everyone in Dublin is just happy with everything no matter how bad it is may not be compleytely off the wall, but why continuously turn to the childish west brit rhetoric that its ‘cos were little old Ireland’. IF, and its a big IF, this is the case, surely YOU, are intent on changing things through your arhcitectural nous (are you an architect) or are you happy to have petty arguments online?

      I am neither an architet nor an expert in urbn planning, but I do have an appreciation of good architecture and public buildings.

      You seem to think that a simple improvement to Dublins architectural inadequacies would be some high-rise buildings. Of course, there have been thousands of minds that have designed skyscrapers for Dublin, but they obviously came to the wise conclusion that, correctly it would be frankly ridiculous to have one or two buildings over 150m in Dublin, with its low skyline. Perhaps you know better.

      So architecture is an outward reflection of a society, indeed it is a reflection of civilization itself’
      Well lets not start a ‘quotes’ battle as Im sure you understand I could find a quote to prove that the world is indeed flat.

      I will say however that there is already some great architecture in Ireland, although a lot of it is pre-1922 so I suppose you wouldnt count that would you. Is James Gandon not British enough for you either?

      Self-criticism is always necessary of course, but poisonous self-loathing is not really the way to do it.

      C.

    • #721650
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      OK, you two, take it outside. Can’t we all just get along?

    • #721651
      GregF
      Participant

      O Ciaran……calm time will ye, jesus…..I think you’ve missed the point of what I overall imply….and thanks for the sarky ‘inferiority complex’ jibe too…. but maybe it is a reflection of the Irish nation itself.
      I never used the term ‘West Brit’, but you yourself did and on several occasions. (Is that perhaps a reflection of a deep down inner feeling that you maintain. We are after all however a lot more British here in Ireland than we would like to admit as the British are far more European than they’d like to admit. History has dictated this of which we refuse to admit.)
      I simply implied that some folk here are more entranced by the ongoings of the banalities of cross channel soaps and sporting events rather than taking an interest in their own built environment, yet they feel they have a right to critisize what in the long run may be better for their native city. (It is a free country too, people can do what they like, and why not)
      Regarding the height and scale thing …..well if you look at the history of architecture it was always a competiveness that has produced great architecture, has’nt it………a competiveness and an urge to build bigger, build better, build more flamboyant…etc….etc….and it’s from this that we have a great history of great architecture to look upon today. From the times of the Egyptians, the Romans, The Renaissance, The Gothic, The Baroque, the 20th Century; whether it be Pyramids, Temples, Cathedrals Castles, Manor Houses, Parliaments, Social Housing for the masses……Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and so on …. there has always been a want to build better for the betterment of humanity…….but that is a bit lacking in the imagination of the Irish general public at times ……hence our middle of the road complacent surroundings, acres of houses and the urban sprawl, bad transport etc …etc…..etc….that we have in Ireland today…..Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Coming from an agrarian background too we don’t really have a great knack of urban living like our fellow Europeans…..do we.
      It is what undercurrent ideology (what ever that maybe) that’s behind a society that produces the best of a society………hence at the end of the day some societies have a better quality of life and better outward trappings that go with it…(and that’s what matters….is’nt it)
      You do realize that don’t you …………..but jesus…..why bother!

    • #721652
      fjp
      Participant

      on a completely seperate point:

      does anyone know when the next section is going up?
      (surely someone’s got good inside info on schedule)

      fjp

    • #721653
      ew
      Participant

      Is there a section going up now?
      http://193.120.149.58/camera06.jpg

    • #721654
      Niall
      Participant

      This is all turning into a bore…

      Can just see it now.. Tour guide to tourists..

      Yeah, got permission in 1998 by the Council… suppossed to go up for the Millennium…High Court appeal. Minister gave permission for it after reading EIS in December 2000!!!!!!!!!!!
      First started construction in 2002. Finally went up in 2004!

      I can see them all rolling around laughing… better still a look of disbelief on their faces…

      Can anything be done on time in this country? The third piece has been sitting there for 3 weeks!!!!!!! What are they doing standing around staring at it?

    • #721655
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Adverse weather conditions?
      Extended public sector Christmas holidays?
      Alarm clock didnt go off?
      Broke a nail?

    • #721656
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Give ’em a break. They’ve only been at it a few weeks and in fairness it looks really tricky and the weather has been crap.

    • #721657
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      True, I imagine it’s not the sort of thing you want to do in high winds.

      James

    • #721658
      kefu
      Participant

      I agree. If it’s not finished until February or March, so what. At least, it will finally be up. It would have been up in the Millennium year except for the wackos and the planning laws. You can’t blame City Council for that.

    • #721659
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Yeah. You could possibly argue that they should have known about the entironmental impact study. I don’t know enough about the legal situation to say whether this is normally required, or a special case was made because someone complained.

      We’ve waited nearly three years, so what’s another month or so? It’s just we’re keen to see how it looks when it’s all lit up. Should be quite a sight!

      James

    • #721660
      CiaranO
      Participant

      I agree totally, It has taken a while, but will most definitely be worth the wait when erceted fully.

      Themoans are just another example of the many voices on this site that love nothing more than a good oul moan about the oul oirish.

      Im sure theyre not delaying it on purpose, are they?

      Ah sure we’ll leave it at two sections and the crane can be a permanent attraction, it’ll be grand…:D

      C.

    • #721661
      GrahamH
      Participant

      A couple of points, you may or may not have known.

      In the original plans for the Spire, the surrounding pavement/base was to be hollowed out, lined with black Kilkenny marble, and filled with 40 litres of mercury!(under glass of course). It would have been spectacular, only it was considered unsafe, and the current cast bronze base was deemed more appropriate.

      The height of the Spire, in relation to sea level, is actually lower than RTE’s mast in Donnybrook, even though its only 100m high, compared with the Spire’s 120m.

      It will not be visible at all from Merrion Square, and will not be ‘noticable’ from Rathmines, or Heuston to the west. It will be clearly visible from Mountjoy Square to the north and the East Link Bridge to the west, as well as from Trinity.

      A point that I havn’t heard made is that the Spire is going to remove forever, the longest vista in Ireland, and one of the longest in Europe, the Mary Street-Jervis Street-Henry Street-North Earl Street-Talbot Street axis, which is a kilometre in length, incredible for an urban area. Not that it is particularly spectacular or anything, especially considering the mess the Victorians made of it’s focal point, Connolly Station.

      Henry Moore, Earl of Drogheda would not be amused.

    • #721662
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      It may be a long streetscape, but it’s fairly unremarkable. And on a selfish note, it tended to remind you how far you had to walk to the shops in Henry Street when coming from Connolly!

    • #721663
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      Dorset St is as long (maybe longer) and as straight. Anyway, with the spire being only a couple of metres across the view from Connolly Station to toymaster on Mary St is hardly broken.

    • #721664
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      With vistas like that, who needs bad planners?!!

    • #721665
      Anonymous
      Participant

      passed it this morning, 3 more sections are lying on the ground beside, maybe they’ll all go up in one day ? hard to know what they’re up to …

    • #721666
      Rory W
      Participant

      The vista
      (a) was designed to terminate at Connolly – I’m assuming you are saying the Victorians ruined this by building the section of the loop-line bridge in front of this rather than the building itself which is quite fine
      (b) would have been disrupted by the pillar 1806 – 1966
      (c) the Georgian Mile (Leeson Street Bridge to Holles Street hospital is a much finer vista (although blighted somewhat by ESB HQ)
      (d) Henry Moore Earl of Drogheda would have been more upset at the fact that Drogheda Street was ripped apart by Gardiner!

      Sorry to be a pedant but…

      To the topic in hand – does anyone know then the next section is scheduled to go up – I assume it wont be this week given the expected windy weather?

    • #721667
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      There was definately supposed to be a piece going up last week, which I assume didn’t happen to the strong winds. One would hope that the remaining sections will go up fairly quickly when the wind dies down.

      James

    • #721668
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      The remaining sections of Dublin’s 120-metre Spire have been transported from the Radley Engineering plant in Dungarvan, County Waterford, to O’Connell Street in Dublin.

      Two sections were bolted into place last month, but a plan to erect the third section before Christmas was not realised.

      Now the three final sections of the six-piece Spire have been brought into the capital.

      Engineers hope to complete construction very quickly, however high winds forecast for the coming days could lead to delays.

    • #721669
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      You should see last weeks Phoenix – it has a cartoon taking the…..out of the delay in erecting the Spike – very funny!

    • #721670
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      From RTE:
      “Two parts of the spire are already standing. A third piece was brought to O’Connell Street in December but it was not possible to put it up due to bad weather.”

      Eh, did we not have clear blue skies for most of the last two weeks, with little wind???!

    • #721671
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Passed the Spire this morning, and I have to say I was very disappointed with the condition of the steel. It looked manky dirty with what appeared to be massive water-marks streaking down the sides, even though it was’nt wet. The amount of join lines is also very disappointing, when mentioned previously, I thought it was only referring to the joins of the 20m sections, but actually all of the factory joins are starkly evident, every few metres.
      Saying that, from a distance, the glow of the morning light on the steel looked quite spectacular.

      With regard to Connolly Station, the ‘mess’ I referred to was the building itself. Whilst the Italinate tower is very beautiful, it has long been acknowledged as a very cumbersome, disproportionate, and poorly designed building. It’s Wicklow Granite is also of a poor quality. Anyway, a new vista is now being created with the Spire, which is possibly best, considering the existing one dosn’t work, due to the fall in levels. The Spire aptly steps in at the half-way mark, as the Pillar did.

    • #721672
      fjp
      Participant

      I know what I’m doing at lunch tomorrow….

      fjp

    • #721673
      GregF
      Participant

      I saw that the other three pieces have been delivered to the site and are lying on the ground awaiting hoisting into place…..now if only the winds would abate. Tis to be windy for the rest of the week. The shiney steel looked good however this morning in the semi dark as it glistened in the street light.

    • #721674
      fjp
      Participant

      Hurray!!! New spike photos for our far away friends!!!

      click here for thirteen new shots (then scroll down)…

      Points of interest include the interior photos (ending with “int”). They show some mechanical stuff, some electrical stuff, and (most amusingly) the interior ACCESS LADDER!!!

      Now then – I have to to disagree with Graham’s comments on the surface finish. I think it looks fantastic, and will use once again words like “creamy” and “silky” to describe the way in which it reflects light. It’s a very interesting finish which looks totally surreal from even a short distance away. So I’m all for the current finish, and the attention to detail also seems withour fault (sorry).

      fjp

    • #721675
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Thanks again for the excellent photos. Did they let you onsite to take them?

      I was down there last night when they were taking the covers off. I presume there will be no movement on lifting it into place until the wind levels are more reasonable.

      The access ladder is fascinating. I was especially amused to see the spanner tied to the sructure. You wouldn’t want to get half way up and find, “damn, forgot the spanner.” Shouldn’t there be a bag of bolts too?

      I like the finish. But it does turn black at night, except where there is a light to reflect (which around Christmas was the nearby christmas tree). It should look great when it’s lit from all around.

      James

    • #721676
      Niall
      Participant

      I liked the photo of all the guys standing around doing nothing, very impressive!

    • #721677
      ew
      Participant

      From a distance (in dark) you only see the reflected light. Makes the whole thing appear even thinner.

      Well done on the photos fjp

    • #721678
      ED209
      Participant

      really amazing photos, well done.

    • #721679
      Anonymous
      Participant

      rte news were quoting the city council tonight as saying that construction could be complete as early as thursday … it seems they plan to put all other sections up in one day once they get the weather for it.
      Great photo’s fjp… did you notice if the very top section was there? would be good to get a shot cause you’d need some zoom lense once its up!

    • #721680
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Yeah theyre mentioned a lull in the weather and working at 3am. Guess we wont be sleeping that night.

    • #721681
      fjp
      Participant

      Didn’t see the top section, though I certainly looked for it. All photos were taken through the railings with no extra access privelages…

      3am??? Hmm. Still though, cool if it just went up all of a sudden.

      fjp

    • #721682
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      not sure if i want to be on o’connell street at 3am friday morning brandishing cameras…. i like having cameras… i also like my face the way it is too 😀

    • #721683
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Was down there this evening, and there were definately only three pieces there (unless the fourth is really well hidden).

      Wow, 3AM. Not tonight, I suspect. There was some breeze blowing!

      James

    • #721684
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Third piece went up this morning at 6am… more pieces this morning… i’m off down there for the morning. If anyone is around, i’m the cold looking guy with the minolta camera bag.

    • #721685
      Rory W
      Participant

      Was down there at 8 – looking good, will head down again at lunchtime to see the 4th section hopefully in place.

      Speaking of things appearing all of a sudden – the top section of the Crysler Building in New York appeared in 1 day and that surprised a lot of people!!!

    • #721686
      ro_G
      Participant

      heard it will all be up by 6pm tonight ?

    • #721687
      Anonymous
      Participant

      third section is up ! can finally see it from my house out in the sticks here in tallaght …

    • #721688
      GregF
      Participant

      Heard on the radio, aka the news, that the final 3 sections of the Spire are intended to go up by the end of the week…or even by tomorrow depending on the wind on the Beaufort scale. Let’s hope the winds abate and they do it, it will be historical for the city, the making of a new modern landmark for Dublin. Something for us all who are alive today to remember and tell our children.

    • #721689
      Rory W
      Participant

      Greg’s getting carried away…

    • #721690
      Far Glynn
      Participant

      Now thats never been known to happen has it! It looked great from Clontarf this morning with the morning sun shining on it. There are just one or two visible joins on the second section that take away from it a bit up close though!

    • #721691
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Well, I stand corrected. I could see the crane from my apartment in Capel Street, so I went down there on my way to work. Looks great!

      James

    • #721692
      fjp
      Participant

      Jeez – I was going to look out the rear window of my gaff today and see if anything had happened, but just figured I wouldn’t bother (I was already late for work). A mistake it seems…

      I’ll be down at lunch again. I’ll try and get a picture of Paul as well!!! 😉

      fjp

    • #721693
      Rory W
      Participant

      So if you want to identify archeire contributors simply look for chaps taking photos at lunchtime (I’ll be the one in the navy overcoat!!!) Should we all wear carnations to allow for easy identification? 🙂

    • #721694
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      i have a picture of the tip… it has no point…

      Tip shots
      http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike_construction/index.html

    • #721695
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      i’ll be back dopwn there for 1… meet outside the spar?

    • #721696
      fjp
      Participant

      Great. I’d hate to be any non-archeire readers down there taking photos at lunch (and wondering why they’re getting “knowing looks” from complete strangers).

      I’ll keep my eyes on the spar if I’m down around one, but it might be just a little later…

      fjp

    • #721697
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      a spike would suggest a sharp tip…

      first pictures of spire tip

    • #721698
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      more

    • #721699
      ro_G
      Participant

      the bits in the second pic that are covered by radley engineering lettering – i presume the beacons lie underneath – or are they gaps ?

    • #721700
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      yet more

    • #721701
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      last one for a while

    • #721702
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by ro_G
      the bits in the second pic that are covered by radley engineering lettering – i presume the beacons lie underneath – or are they gaps ?

      beacon is beneath i believe… they tore off some of the wrapping so RTE could get it on the one o’clock news… guess they missed that scoop 😉

    • #721703
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ireland.com is saying that it will all be in place by midnight …

    • #721704
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      guys on the site arent shure…
      pieces 123 are up
      45 are still on ground
      they’re bolting 6 to 78 to lift in one piece

    • #721705
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      Isn’t it well for ye all that seem to live AND work in the city centre. Hope you get some good pics for those who can’t be there.

    • #721706
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Well, I get a good view of it from our 6th floor office in Ballsbridge. Still no sign of piece number 4 going up.

      I must say it looks amazing on this sunny day.

      James

    • #721707
      PaulC
      Participant

      here is a pic from the Irish Times

    • #721708
      LOB
      Participant

      Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
      last one for a while

      New bright luxury accomodation for Housemartins located in the city centre 😉

    • #721709
      Murpho
      Participant

      Hey, great pic PaulC.

      I am new to this forum and I just wanted to comment that having seen that picture from The Irish Times, that I really think the spire looks great and is a great architectural and artistic development in Dublin.

      I was just wondering does anyone know what vandalism precautions have been taken in the design. How will it cope when some asshole tries to spray his name on it or even attacks it with a hammer. Is the very bottom section protected in some way?

    • #721710
      Sue
      Participant

      Think of all the hospitals they could have built with that money what’s been wasted on that spike. What’s it all for anyway? What’s the point of it? They should have rebuilt Nelson’s Pillar and put the Blessed Virgin on top. I’m going to get onto that Liveline programme immediately to give out about this.

      Signed,

      Outraged Mother of Nine

    • #721711
      fjp
      Participant

      Hurray again!!!

      Well I’m back. Bummer with the Bus strike – walked there and got a taxi back (from Baggot Street).

      Anyway, here’s another twenty five new photos:

      just click on this bit of text

      They start at “spike-030115-01.jpg”, and “spike-030115-13-tip…” etc refers to photos of the last section on the ground (pointy enough to kill you if you fell from a plane onto it).

      Looks sweet alright, particularly from distances, although I did notice a dull patch on it about half way up (sounds like what Graham noticed yesterday – sorry!!!). But it still looks top dollar, especially from a little further away.

      And I think I saw Paul, but it was as I was legging it back to work. And I’m sort of shy…

      fjp

    • #721712
      Niall
      Participant

      looks good.

      I still don’t know what precautions have been taken to stop vandalism.

      Does anyone know?

      If it is just left there I’d give it hours before the first name appears on it……..

    • #721713
      ro_G
      Participant

      what is the nature of that blotch though – and can it be cleaned up?

    • #721714
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      The visible joins or ridges or whatever they are on fjp’s photos look terrible. I hope they’re dirt or glue from the wrapping, not welds.

    • #721715
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Back for a while – not much happening down there for a few hours according to the engineer

    • #721716
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      There are some very visible blemishes unfortunetly

    • #721717
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      its so cool to see it all there.. so near and yet so far

    • #721718
      descarrga
      Participant

      It has been a refreshing and re-assuring pleasure watching spike arrive- through your words and (thankfully) photos-
      As a native who has never studied or worked professionally at home, passionate discourse about an urban design project has had me checking your message board from afar (NYC) with increasing enthusiasm- an event to challenge the visual illiteracy i unfortunately grew up with (regular trips to mayo and her pock-marked landscape of south fork mansions on the side of a hill, overlooking a bog, sadly re-emphasise this) —-
      fjp- the photos are fantastic and have been well circulated over here-
      can anybody give me an idea of the anchoring &/or foundations- also the connections between segments- is there a small man from achill island up there with a spanner?

    • #721719
      GregF
      Participant

      Despite the welding joints…..does’nt it look great however…very futuristic, almost alien, a monument for the Raelians too no doubt, an oblelisk like in 2001 A Space Odyssey ….we just need an Ape-man aka ‘Scanger’ touching it in wonder……pity they’re not going with the Mercury base however…..Does anyone know what precisely is to go there.
      Jesus what a great addition to the city…well done to the council for backing this one…..may the repaving, replanting and rejuvenation of O’Connell Street go ahead. It will be one of the best streets in Europe.

    • #721720
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Anyone know what Ian Ritchie looks like?

    • #721721
      Rory W
      Participant

      Fantastic image of the tracksuit brigade/2001 – hilarious

    • #721722
      Murpho
      Participant

      GregF: I couldn’t agree more. This has really taken balls to go ahead with this one. It is futuristic, stylish and innovative, and hopefully is the first step in turning O’Connell St into the focal point of the city it should be.
      All those people saying that the money should be spent on the homeless of hospitals are talking through their arses. The amount of money spent on this project would not have any effect on the social problems of the city and if their logic was to be extended further then we would live in a world that did not know, The Eiffel Tower, Colloseum in Rome, Pyramids, Big Ben etc (Don’t forget Liberty Hall 🙂 )
      I really hope the people of Ireland (not only Dublin) take this monument to their hearts and see it is a symbol of a change from the poverty stricken backward country that it was on its to way to a wealthy modern and exciting nation that we should be!

      Go on the Spike!

    • #721723
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      I agree, O’Connell Street should look great. I still miss the Fluzie though.

      Now, if we could just get all the fast food restaurants to clean up their image. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be there. I don’t think we should turn the street into a museum or anything. However, I think without exception they could do a lot more to make their image more appropriate to the street.

      Shame about the imperfections. Hopefully they’ll be giving the whole thing a polish when it’s in place. I wonder will keeping it clean be a problem. I think there’s a company that makes little robots that can trundle up and down structures like this to keep them clean.

      Did you find out when the next piece is going to be attached.

      James

    • #721724
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      I can only see a list of pics up to yesterday on fjp’s site. Am I doing something wrong?

    • #721725
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Try pressing Refresh on your browser. 🙂

    • #721726
      Murpho
      Participant

      lostcarpark:

      I’m sure it will be polished when complete.

      As for cleaning, apparently its design is self-cleaning. Apparently when it rains (it shouldn’t prove a problem!) that the rain will flow down the spire and take all dirt with it! Clever eh?

    • #721727
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      How are they going to polish it in situ?

    • #721728
      kefu
      Participant

      When I saw the models of the Spire, I always thought it was beautifully shiny and lustrous.
      The most impressive thing now is that it has retained those qualities.
      It’s almost exactly as Ritchie envisioned it. I hope he’s happy with the way it turned out.
      The nearly final product is a vindication for all of us who have been [even if it’s only quietly] supporting this project since it was chosen.

    • #721729
      kefu
      Participant

      Re vandalism, this is an extract from an interesting article at

      http://www.nidi.org/index.cfm/ci_id/10810.htm

      ‘The bottom 12 metres of the spire will retain its mirrored finish but will be etched with an abstract design to improve resistance to dirt and graffiti.

      Stainless steel was chosen for its corrosion resistance, structural behaviour and visual/sculptural qualities, adds Graham. The spire has been designed to last at least 130 years.’

      Don’t know how effective it will be against the more determined.

    • #721730
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Graffiti was already mentioned. How about “Nelson was ‘ere.”

      Which is true.

      James

    • #721731
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I can see it, from only 3 storeys up in Aungier Street, and its only half built! It’s finish is exquisite from a distance, it’s always reflecting the light at the slightest hint of sunshine and looks stunning.
      I suspect the real vandals will not be spray painters/joyriders etc, but rather little kids, scratching the base with coins/rings etc.

    • #721732
      ro_G
      Participant

      hmmm 130 years? anyone think it will outlast that figure?

    • #721733
      kefu
      Participant

      hopefully none of us will ever know

    • #721734
      fjp
      Participant

      my chinese geneticist friends say different.

      The spike is going to be written on. All someone has to do is walk up, lean against it with their hands behind their back, and write their initials with a marker. Simple as that, and they’ll think it’s hilarious too. So it’s going to happen, and all the sterilisation machines in the world couldn’t stop it.

      Hopefully the corpo will just clean it off every morning, and fine people a PSII if they’re caught. Or even better – make them clean it every morning for a fortnight (sweet, and cost effective too).

      fjp

    • #721735
      Niall
      Participant

      why not just make it impossible to touch it.. problem solved. It’s going to be covered in grafitti and god knows what else after pubs close……….

    • #721736
      fjp
      Participant

      I guess they could have achieved that by putting it in the middle of a big decorative pool, although water features on that location have had problems in the past (because bad people kept resting by them (and they looked grim)). So perhaps that’s why they didn’t do the pool thing then.

      I guess it’s hard to figure out an easy way to stop people from touching something without it seeming a little facist. Railings just wouldn’t be good. The pool thing could backfire for the reasons above (places for drunk people to relax). An excellent method for stopping graffiti on walls is to plant creeping ivy plants. They make the wall look nice when they’re grown, and are really hard to write on (being plants). Anyone fancy proposing the development of the world’s tallest ivy?

      So we’re back to enforcement (in this country?) versus vigilante snipers on the GPO. I’ll be very disappointed when I see the first piece of writing. But dissappointed at the beaver-munchers who wrote it, and not the spike designers, as I also look forward to walking up and touching it for the first time. Don’t forget that humans like contact with objects.

      Snipers. Maybe just with Air Rifles.

      fjp

    • #721737
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I was on the Street just before 7 this evening, the site worker there said they are still proposing to go ahead with it’s completion tonight, & hopefully get it finished by day-break.
      I posted this before but anyway, it is proposed to have a dedicated cleaning crew (1/2 people) to clean the base of the Spire once a week, employed by the City Council.

    • #721738
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Really? was down earlier this evening, in the darkness the spike has a beautiful black silky appearance as it disappears into the sky.

    • #721739
      allesandro
      Participant

      what an amazing piece of work the spire is, i would like to thank you for the wonderful photos on the website, i am currently living abroad and so appreciate them all the more.

      the spire could be oh so famous yet, just think of the possibilities,

      carlsberg dont do knitting needles but if they did!

    • #721740
      ro_G
      Participant

      kinda like christmas eve, cant wait for tomorrow to see it!

      think i’ll check into the Oval tomorrow night for a pint and a good look close-up.

    • #721741
      CTR
      Participant

      Its great!! One small niggle….is the steel blemished in places? I saw section 3 on it side yesterday and it seemed sort of blemished or pocked in places. Suppose that wont be visable from afar.

      Does anyone agree that it could have been designed with a wider diameter at the base. The street could have taked a slightly bulkier base and still it could have tapered nicely. Just seems a bit narrow to me. Still , it has it beauty too! Roll on the lighting up ceremony. Im hoping to wake and find that they got all 6 sections up by morning.

    • #721742
      John Matrix
      Participant

      Thanks heaps FJP

      I’m heading back to live in Dublin next month after 3 years in Sydney(yes, I am mad!), however your latest photos of the Spike have been encouraging, is that blue sky in some of them photos !!!

      Dublins very own Centrepoint !

      http://www.sydneycity.net/sydneycentrepointtower.htm

    • #721743
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Spire completion delayed by high winds
      RTE News

      The Chief Engineer on the project to complete the erection of the Spire on Dublin’s O’Connell St says the project will not recommence within the next 48 hours. Michael O’Neill said they now had to take stock of weather conditions before any further work on the project can be carried out. He added that the high winds which have hampered the project so far this week are due to continue for the next 48 hours so the project will be put on hold until then.

      http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0116/spire.html

    • #721744
      Rory W
      Participant

      Alas, due to the windy weather it’s off until the weekend, still better late than never.

      How about declaring it a national monument – thereby anyone who defaces it could be up for a major fine/prison.

    • #721745
      alastair
      Participant

      it looks complete from my point of view!?

    • #721746
      GregF
      Participant

      I agree Rory…….no doubt there will be some ‘lost soul’ trying to plough a stolen car into it’s base or some ‘Cro Magnon’ trying to scrawl their name ‘Ug’ or ‘Man U’ on it’s base.
      The gardai although only up the road are normally asleep too that they miss those things.
      Here’s to the Spire, urban living and civilization itself.

    • #721747
      Niall
      Participant

      Delayed again

      This is a great advert for the companies involved.
      What were they all doing during the good weather last week and who’s footing the bill?

      This is a right circus!

    • #721748
      Po
      Participant

      pics look like ‘weapons of mass destruction’ to me.

    • #721749
      alastair
      Participant

      oops. sorry I’d a fuzzy head on me earlier. I mistook a dublin bus depot aerial for the spike (!really!)

    • #721750
      ew
      Participant

      While waiting for the wind to die down, check out the latest public project aimed at revitalising Soap Lake in Washington State.

      http://www.giantlavalamp.com

      “The structure, similar to the Eiffel Tower in Paris and the Space Needle in Seattle, Washington, will provide worldwide interest and positive publicity for the City of Soap Lake, Grant County and the State of Washington.”

      This was on the BBC during the week and made me wonder could it happen here… In fairness there were worse ideas entered in the Dublin competition…

      Heard on the news this morning that there are 4 sections up at the moment. Looks like 3 to me. I presume the news (spin) got it wrong…?

    • #721751
      fjp
      Participant

      Well, the Spike will certainly be a must-see for any tourist in Ireland. Hell, yesterday there were tourists getting their photos taken with it as a background.

      The Lava Lamp sounds like a good idea and a terrible idea rolled into one. On one hand, lava lamps are a bit cliched and old, and the design looks a little too like a giant version of the “desktop” model. On the other hand, if anyone turns on a lava lamp in front of me I will stare at it, and so I would certainly go see this crazy thing if I was up visiting that dam. In summary – they should build it. It will bring in mney and tourists and be very, very pretty (especially at night). I’d certainly visit their web cam.

      On other business: I think it’s four. See – the joins are pretty good!!

      Alastair: “a bus depot aerial”????????????????????

      fjp

    • #721752
      urbanisto
      Participant

      The Spire got a pic on page 2 of the Guardian this morning….

    • #721753
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I don’t know if they got the fourth piece up or not. Just stepped out onto Henrietta Street and it still seems to be the same distance above the school in the foreground on Bolton Street that it was yesterday. The crane being in the down position may make it look taller tho.

    • #721754
      Fiona
      Participant

      does anyone know if theres going to be a budget over-run due to delays. i was told a standard site crane costs around 1000 eupos a day to rent and operate, so how much does that monstrosity cost? even if it is just resting on its laurels most of the time.

      i think peoples dismissal of the spike is a bit of a sham. the same lovely dublin folk who keep saying “disagrace-a” at the top of their voices for tv3’s cameras are the very people who this thing is aimed at. they are engaging with it, forming opinions, whether good or bad, and reacting to this piece of art, which is the whole purpose of the spike in the frst place.

      good on ya bertie


      – – – — – —
      as an aside, how many people have heard “its nearly as big as mine,har har har” or “they’re havin a bit o bodder down dere lads, they need volunteers to put it up, har har har” or “i wonder if they’ll sit bertie up on top when its done, har har etcetera”

    • #721755
      alastair
      Participant

      Originally posted by fjp

      Alastair: “a bus depot aerial”????????????????????

      Not as mad as it sounds. The depot lies between me and the spike, and I’ve been watching the top of the crane from my window the last few days. When the crane had disappeared this morning, and there was a tall slender object in roundabout the same spot, I jumped to conclusions. As I say, my head was fuzzy.

      I’m concerned about the ‘clean up job’ needed for the spike as it stands at the moment. It’s manky on the north earl street side, and there are bits of tape etc hanging off it quite high up. I would have thought the best place to sort that out was when it’s on the ground. Are they going to dangle a cleaning guy from a crane halfway up the thing when its finished or use those eyelets at the top to have someone absail up/down and clean it that way? Seems needlessly difficult.

    • #721756
      ew
      Participant

      The crane was rented at a flat fee for the entire job rather than per day. So any overrun won’t be due to the crane lying idle.

      Fionas comments are interesting – a wonderful part of the project is the discussion provoked. Crowds looking at the work and waiting for the event are what makes the monument an occasion. And the thought of so many mystery archeire contributers with digital cameras there adds to this!
      I don’t know where TV3 drag their stock “characters” from, but the comments that are featured in the vox-pops certaintly don’t reflect the comments I’ve heard down there recently.
      People are engaging in a way that was missing from the competition. I think people were sceptical back then as to weather the project would be followed through on. If the spire gets completed (and indications are good!) it should bode well for public consultations, competions in the future.
      And it looks cool too! Well done .

    • #721757
      ro_G
      Participant

      i have seen it written that the Spire is designed to be self-cleaning. How so?

      And what exactly are the eyelets for? To radiate light? To allow wind to blow through rather than wobbling it?

    • #721758
      dpower
      Participant

      Have to say I’m a little bit dissapointed with the finishing of the steel- you can clearly see what look like heat sinks where the stainless was glued to the ribbing. Thought is would be cleaner- especially after reading that Sunday Times article about how long it took to polish it. Don’t think that they should have shot-peened it.
      Having said that- it should look awsome with a few lights on it at night.

    • #721759
      ro_G
      Participant

      Wonder if Ian Ritchie and the boys have taken to calling it the Spike now too ?

    • #721760
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      And what exactly are the eyelets for? To radiate light? To allow wind to blow through rather than wobbling it?

      Probably so the crane can attach hooks to pick it up!

      James

    • #721761
      ro_G
      Participant

      eyeletts the wrong word … i meant these perforations…

      https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?s=&postid=9994

    • #721762
      Rory W
      Participant

      Of two recent points

      The eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS) and the contractors (McNally’s) do not mind the delay in construction (they say they are getting wonderful publicity for it) and have waived any overrun costs for the crane.

      Good on them, quite civic minded wouldn’t you say

    • #721763
      Niall
      Participant

      Bloody chancers more like, still don’t know what they were up to last week.

    • #721764
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      With all due respect, there were some pretty strong gayles last week, especially in the first half of the week. I was very surprised that they were working on it yesterday, given the winds the night before.

      When a project is three years late, who’s going to worry about a couple of weeks?

      James

    • #721765
      alastair
      Participant

      Originally posted by Rory W
      Of two recent points

      The eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS)

      Nah, there are 4 large eyelets above the leds/lamp area. probably for hoisting up, but might also be handy for maypole/gallows conversion.

    • #721766
      dpower
      Participant

      The eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS)

      Apparently Hewlett Packard developed a new kind of LED especially for the spire

    • #721767
      DaM
      Participant

      Havent been here in a while ……..have to say the spike is a great addition to dublin and much needed……

      but I dont think they should ever let it be completed just keep building it ….

      the futurists said that the construction process was the most exciting part of a buildings/projects life ………the spike with its delays etc is certainly creating this excitement…………….let it go on and on……….

    • #721768
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Just to clarify, there are a series of “eyelets” at the very top, presumably for hoisting the section.

      There is also a collection of “holes” or “perferations” around the entire length of the top two sections, which are to let light out. I hadn’t heard about LED lighting. My understanding was that a searchlight in the bottom section would shine up and filter through the holes and out the perspec block at the tip. But LED lighting would be cool. They could even have a “Christmas” setting which blinks the LEDs in groups (only kidding).

      James

    • #721769
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Re the Spike being self-cleaning etc. Usual architect’s optimism. Two eternal facts are:

      1. No material is truly self-cleaning.
      2. Stainless steel is usually not stainless.

      Buildings all over the UK sport blotchy stainless steel because the wrong (cheaper) grade was specified. Only genuinely stainless steel is kitchen-grade, which costs a lot.

      Anyone know what grade s/s the Spire is made of?

    • #721770
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by Rory W
      Of two recent points

      The eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS) and the contractors (McNally’s) do not mind the delay in construction (they say they are getting wonderful publicity for it) and have waived any overrun costs for the crane.

      SIAC are the contractors, McNallys (it takes monaghan men to sort out Dublin) are the crane hire specialists. They’re neighbours of mine at home, a mile or so up the road.

    • #721771
      CTR
      Participant

      hey all

      I had a good gawk at it close up today, on my lunch break. It was possible to see it swaying in the heavier breezes. No surpirse there.

      But again, I have to say that the finish of the steel, in daylight at least, is a big disappointment. There are noticeable score marks on section two. i dont mind the ribbing as its not visible from a distance, they are horizontal and evenly spaced. But some of these other marks and dull patches are visible from 100 metres away or more. Some are vertical and crooked too. It looks ‘weathered’ and could pass for an object that has been there for years.

      Of course, these marks (Im hoping) might just be from the packaging material and may be wiped off at the end.

      I think its going to look quite magical with blue skies or at dusk/dawn when its still lighting. The design around the base (marble and flowing mercury) sounds exciting too.

    • #721772
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Yeah, I really hope it gets proper attention and cleanup. We have an awful tendancy to get things so nearly right in this country, with our “it’ll do” approach. I hope we can get this one right.

      James

    • #721773
      alastair
      Participant

      the mercury (under glass) idea is long gone. Someone had a bit of cop on and pointed out it was dangerous stuff. How they expected it to last when the wee uplighters in the path at the millenium bridge lasted about a week escapes me.

    • #721774
      emf
      Participant

      Mmmm!Those marks are probably (hopefully) remnants of the glue from the tape that was used to attach the wrapping! (By the way is 22 pages a record here?)

    • #721775
      ro_G
      Participant

      Yes, the Bertie Bowl thread notched up a very respectable 103 replies whereas this one has a rather amazing 317 nuggets of collective wisdom and has been viewed 14025 times.

    • #721776
      ro_G
      Participant

      good picture on http://www.recirca.com from Peter Fitzpatrick
      http://www.recirca.com/artnews/151.shtml

    • #721777
      GrahamH
      Participant

      To clarify about the LED situation, it was originally proposed to light the tip with something like 27 floresent tubes, however it was decided to employ the technology of new LEDs that are being used across the US at the moment to replace older floodlighting and display signs. These modern LEDs have the life of approx 30 years, and so will be installed in the Spire. However, their inevitable replacement has been accounted for with the installation of an internal pully system to lower the ‘clump’ of socketry and LEDs to it’s base (inside). This internal chamber is accessed from an underground tunnel which is accessed via a ‘secret’ trapdoor in the central median, further up the street. A ladder also runs up the Spire’s interior to the point where a human can no longer fit (although for what, I don’t know)
      Exceptionally narrow beams of light will be projected from the 4 corner buildings surrounding the Spire, and will be aimed at different areas to evenly spead the light. The beams are to be narrow so as to light only the Spire and not the night sky, and more importantly not the street so as not to blind pedestrians. Coloured filters would be brilliant(as mentioned before) such as green for Patricks Day etc.
      These LEDs are also to be used in the hundreds of light fittings which are to be recessed into the new paving on O’ Connell Street, beneath all of it’s 250 or so new trees. and in other areas, such as the plaza outside the GPO.
      The crane is expected to take 2 weeks to dissassemble and move off-site, so how long will it be before the base is offically unveiled? Presumably, we’ll also have to wait for the cast bronze base to be installed, and the surrounding paving to be laid. Considering that the paving/plaza works aren’t being started just yet, will temporary paving be laid for the offical unveiling? esp that presumably Bertie will be ‘cutting the ribbon, & that the word’s media will be present (or at least Europe’s)?

    • #721778
      fjp
      Participant

      I couldn’t resist this one.

      more (slightly rushed) lies and deceit.

      fjp

    • #721779
      CiaranO
      Participant

      link wont work……….

      C.

    • #721780
      flysrmd11
      Participant

      Link works fine here. 🙂

    • #721781
      ro_G
      Participant

      lol fjp.

    • #721782
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Where was that photo taken? The building in the middle looks almost exactly like my apartment building, but the surrounding buildings don’t look quite right, so I don’t think it is.

      Oh, doctoring looks great, by the way.

      James (confused)

    • #721783
      Murpho
      Participant

      So whats the latest? No news in the paper today ( I live in Holland so I can only read the Indo online).

      Will the Spire/spike/ stiffy by the liffey etc be finished this weekend?:confused:

    • #721784
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Depends on the weather, its still very breezey

    • #721785
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      The story yesterday was that it wouldn’t proceed for at lest 48 hours, but if the wind calms, they could try over the weekend.

      James

    • #721786
      Far Glynn
      Participant

      Is there anywhere on the web I can view some of the other entries for this competition? I’d love to have a look (and a laugh?) at some of the near misses which would no doubt now be in place had they won!

    • #721787
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster
    • #721788
      ew
      Participant

      This question was raised before, with limited success
      https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1261&goto=nextoldest

    • #721789
      Far Glynn
      Participant

      Interesting, thanks. I think we have a deserved winner judging from the bits and pieces I’ve seen and heard.

    • #721790
      Ebear
      Participant

      Hi all

      I’ve been lurking here for the past few weeks just to keep an eye on this thread. It’s the best way to keep up to date with what’s going on up in O’Connell Street.

      Personally, I’m looking forward to the Spike. I can imagine better things, but I can imagine a lot worse. As someone old enough to remember when Leeson Street was Dublin’s idea of a night out I’m get a kick out of anything positive that happens in the city. Shame though that the Corpo aren’t taking advantage of the PR opportunity to have a spikewatch at their own site, instead of leaving it up to people like Paul and FJP to provide a public service.

      Does any physicist out there know if the spike will cast a shadow? If so, I’ve been suggesting for the last year or so that some good-hearted philanthropist with bags of money should commission public sculptures (any old subject) at twelve strategically chosen locations in the streets around. Then we’d have the largest sundial in the world as well 🙂

    • #721791
      fjp
      Participant

      Nice sundial idea. I guess it could work by placing things at uneven distances fomr the spike, so that they wouldn’t be obvious straight away…

      And this really is a good source of info, so well done again to Paul. In the meantime, here’s Dundrum looking inwards again…

      fjp

    • #721792
      Niall
      Participant

      Good photos also in Frank McDonald’s excellent book ‘ The construction of Dublin’ of the also-rans. They were truly awful!

    • #721793
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I love the sundial idea, had occurred to me as well when I was on the street yesterday. It would be so cool to have pieces mounted on the buildings.

    • #721794
      Django
      Participant

      Hi, this is an urgent urgent request and I get the impression that someone on this thread may be able to help me.

      I need a high resolution picture of the Spike, preferably one of the computer-generated images that I often see floating about. Also, it needs to be a profile picture rather than landscape.

      Can anyone help?! I have already requested this a number of times from the Corpo (or should that be City Council) press office but frankly they have been as helpful as a kick in the jaw. I’m relying on the kindness of real people now. Please send any large images you may have to tribune@campus.ie

      Thank you,

      Cormac

    • #721795
      Django
      Participant

      A picture of the Spike as it is proposed to look that is, not as it looks now… maybe that was obvious though.

      Actually, seeing as how I am writing again, here’s one encounter I had with the Corpo press office just today:

      Me: “Hi, can I get a high-resolution image of the Spike emailed to me please?”

      Corpo: “(Silence)”

      Me: “Hello?”

      Corpo: “The what?”

      Me: “The Spike…”

      Corpo “(Long silence, then)… Ooohh, you mean the Spire…”

      FERFECKSSAKES!

    • #721796
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      I’ve seen some quite nice pics but they were all horribly low resolution. Fjp’s mockups are the highest resolution I’ve seen.

      The best “official” ones I’m aware of are here and here.

      Hope this helps,

      James

    • #721797
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I have original hi-res versions of the architects images if you want them…..

      Any action to happen today? whats the weather forecast like

    • #721798
      flysrmd11
      Participant

      There was much discussion about keeping the Spire clean. This article from today’s Sunday Times may be of interest:

      Copyright: Sunday Times

      Spire cleaning squad to ward off vandals
      John Burns

      GRAFFITI will be cleaned off the Spire of Dublin up to three times a day, according to the city council.
      Planners expect the monument, due to be completed this week, will be a target for vandalism as Dubliners try to autograph the world’s largest sculpture. But a specialist company is to be employed to keep the base of the stainless-steel spire clean.

      “We are confident that we have solvents available to remove spray paint from the monument,” said Jim Barrett, the city architect. “We will be cleaning it twice or three times a day, because we anticipate there will be a temptation to write on it. We may employ a private company to do the cleaning and monitor its alarm system.”

      The alarm will be triggered if there is a malfunction in the lighting or if anyone attempts to break into the 120 metre-high structure.

      The spire has an underground chamber to facilitate maintenance, such as replacement of the lighting. The entrance to the chamber is guarded by a sophisticated system of computerised-locking doors. As well as cleaning with solvent, the council is also making arrangements to polish the structure, especially the bottom 12 metres featuring a mirrored finish with an abstract design etched in.

      Barrett said: “We will have a mobile polisher and anticipate giving it a shine three or four times a year. If there are scratches, we can revisit it from time to time with manual polishing.

      “Any reduction in the thickness of the monument due to polishing would be very slight, and would take hundreds of years before it makes an impact.

      “If someone physically takes a hammer and chisel to this they will find it is tough stainless steel. The impact would be quite small.”

      There will not be a permanent closed-circuit camera trained on the structure, but it will be lit at night. The council is also planning to erect a series of bollards and kerbs around the base to prevent ramming with cars. “It will be impossible even for a tank to get up,” Barrett promised.

      The first three of eight sections have now been installed but work was halted on Wednesday due to high winds. It is planned to restart the installation on Tuesday. Sections six, seven and eight have been joined together, which will speed up the final stages.

      “It could be finished by Wednesday afternoon but the electrical work then has to be done,” said a council spokeswoman. “We have no formal launch date. The launch will be a big event so we’ll have to apply for a licence. It should be a couple of weeks after it’s finished.”

      Silver ceremonial coins are planned to mark the launch of the monument, which is years behind schedule because of legal challenges and engineering difficulties. Originally to be named after the millennium, it is now officially titled the Spire of Dublin.

      Designed by Ian Ritchie Architects in London, the 124-ton structure is 40 stories high. Even though only half-built, it is already visible from some elevated vantage points in the suburbs.

      The spire has been designed to allow its tip to move 2.5 metres in the wind. The top nine metres are perforated with almost 12,000 15mm holes to allow it to radiate light. Rainwater will be collected in an internal gutter and will be flushed to the ground.

      Spire cleaning squad to ward off vandals
      John Burns

      Jeremiah

    • #721799
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Also in the Sunday Times, in the Culture section, Micheal Ross describes the Spire as “less a sculpture than a fetish directed towards the tourist industry as to locals, it is just another part of the commodification of Irish culture” He describes it as the least democratic of the millenium projects, allowing no public access, and typical of largely useless public projects.

      Whereas I agree with the democratic aspect, whatever about the comments of Dublin ‘characters’ on TV 3 News, these remarks from a usually well informed & educated individual are disappointing.

    • #721800
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      More pieces supposed to go up today. Michael Ross’s comments are unfortunate.

    • #721801
      GregF
      Participant

      It is good to see that the council has thought of every possible assault on the Spire by disgruntled members of the public.

      All this whinging too about it not being accessible to the public. Had it been it would have been alot bulkier to accomadate such….aka too bulky for the street.

      Let’s hope the opening ceremony however will be a big event…..(it would really benefit the profile of the country and Bord Failte)… and that that great man of letters, art, sport and culture, aka our leader and Taoiseach B…B…Bertie will attend as well as the government,……and the First Lady herself will be there as well ….no not Cecelia …….but Our President Mary McAleese……and let’s ‘hope too they get those guys to polish up the buttons and get them out of those barracks for the day …….yep. the army, our protectors and defenders and their musical colleagues the army no 1 band to play an auld tune or two to liven up the occasion.
      I could see it all now………as the army No 1 band play ‘Also Sprach Zarathustra’ by Strauss…..(the opening music in 2001 A Space Odyssey) the Spire is lit in time to the music as it climaxes with the crescendo and the Spire stands fully lit for all to see and wonder with awe…….and then the Chieftains start up with ‘Around the Table and Mind the Dresser’…………..Yahoo! ……..Heres to it all….it is a great occasion for the city of Dublin and Ireland…..let’s celebrate.

      (It could be a focal point for the New Year celebrations too instead of it bieng like a ghost town)

      Michael Ross sounds like he is seriously disgruntled about something ….hence his gripe….Is he a buddy of Michael O Nullain. He will have to eat his words and swallow his pride when it is all complete.

    • #721802
      RSJ
      Participant

      Have read the Michael Ross piece. Cleverly worded crap. Every successful society has “decadent emblems”. All politics is to do with show, and always has been. The man is making mouth noises.

    • #721803
      Murpho
      Participant

      Can anyone, give a link where I can read this article. Tried their website but you need a to have a paid up subscription.

      Anyhow, work is supposed to commence this morning after 9 am (which it now is.) Any sign of activity on O’Connell St? How are the winds, will it be completed today?

    • #721804
      ew
      Participant

      Felt very windy down there this morning. Heard on the radio that it’s been postphoned to later in week.

    • #721805
      Jim Cumiskey
      Participant

      As a born, bred and buttered North-sider, I wanted to say thanks to everyone who’s contributed to this discussion which I’ve been watching for a short time. The photos are great and I can’t wait to see the final unveiling. At long last, Dublin will have a central point. I’ve always felt that O’Connell Street was an empty place and, as someone old enough to remember the Pillar, everything I’ve so far seen about the Spire is so much better.

      Jim

    • #721806
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Been down there this morning, the SIAC guys say they may try tonight. When asked why they didnt do it yesterday:

      SIAC “Ahh I cannot tell you that”
      me “But it was very calm, of course you can tell me, I’m just a member of the public”
      SIAC “Members of the public have a habit of whipping out a notebook”
      me “Ah go on, I don’t even own a notebook”
      SIAC “Lets just say that it was a design matter”

    • #721807
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Originally posted by Murpho
      Can anyone, give a link where I can read this article. Tried their website but you need a to have a paid up subscription.

      Comment: Michael Ross

      In Walter Benjamin’s celebrated formulation, the logical result of fascism is the introduction of aesthetics into politics. In Ireland this began not with the choreographed but futile appearances of Eoin O’Duffy’s Blueshirts in the 1930s, or the clumsy propagandising practised by the Stickies, but with the manipulation of Garret FitzGerald’s image that made him electable in the 1980s.
      Not that FitzGerald or his handlers were fascist, but by giving marketing and image manipulation privilege over policy making they began the aestheticisation of Irish politics. More than ever, politics became a dramatic narrative, and with a pliable media resourcing rolling news at the expense of investigative reporting, image and perception became everything.

      Ian Ritchie’s Spire of Light is another artefact of that process, appropriately reaching completion in a week in which Ireland’s hospital service suffered unprecedented crisis. Intended as a symbol of Ireland in the third Christian millennium, Ritchie’s 130 tons of shot-peened stainless steel has indeed become that, but hardly as intended.

      There have been more grotesque wastes of public money, but Ritchie’s spire — ostensibly a brave, clean, optimistic symbol of a society liberated from traditional pieties — stands out as a decadent emblem of a culture fixated by spectacle.

      Chosen by a panel of seven, only two of whom had any democratic mandate, the spire was imposed without public consultation by an administration fixated by expensive and largely useless public projects, one that talks the laissez-faire talk but still walks the Napoleonic walk.

      At over €4m the most expensive of the projects approved by the national millennium committee, the spire is also the least democratic, allowing no public access, the mirror finish of its base a dismal acknowledgment of antisocial tendencies of many of those for whom it was provided.

      Structural engineers and architects will genuflect before it, and even members of the public hostile to it may come around. But less a sculpture than a fetish directed as much towards the tourist industry as to locals, it is just another part of the commodification of Irish culture.

      Compared with the millennium candles distributed to every home in the republic, and even the broadleaf trees planted on behalf of the country’s households, it is spectacular but sterile, anti-democratic and built to exclude.

      Spectacular is what is required when, instead of a politics of accountability you groom a politics of spectacle, of which the humiliation of individuals and avoidance of institutional scrutiny — in the tribunals, for example — is just another manifestation.

      The narrative of Irish politics since FitzGerald has been about the triumph of good over evil, and the triumph of the individual will. From Gerry Gregg’s disgraceful documentary series about Des O’Malley to Charlie McCreevy’s tax individualisation, public discourse in Ireland has become preoccupied with the singular at the expense of the social or structural.

      Ritchie’s spire fits the Zeitgeist perfectly. It will be interpreted almost entirely in aesthetic terms; its significance, however, is almost entirely political.

    • #721808
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
      Been down there this morning, the SIAC guys say they may try tonight. When asked why they didnt do it yesterday:

      “Ahh I cannot tell you that”
      “But it was very calm, of course you can tell me, I’m just a member of the public”
      “Members of the public have a habit of whipping out a notebook”
      “Ah go on, I don’t even own a notebook”
      “Lets just say that it was a design matter”

      Which goes to prove his point Paul!

    • #721809
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I know…. I’m cursed with a verbatim memory ;). I need a big microphone with “Archiseek” around it……

    • #721810
      Ebear
      Participant

      A spokesguy on the radio just said they’re going to start after lunch (about two) lifting the fourth piece. If all goes well and the wind “behaves itself” they’ll keep going. Ideally, they’s like to be on the last, large, piece as dawn is breaking tomorrow, as the extra light would be useful for what is the largest and most difficult part of the operation.

    • #721811
      GregF
      Participant

      The Spire is funded by the ‘Illuminati’….that great group of global conspiracists who have controlled world events since the dawn of time and who get their orders from the shapeshifting aliens. They were behind the construction of the Pyramids and other great structures that have been built from ancient times at the expense of hospital waiting lists and the poor.
      See http://www.davidicke.com for the truth.

    • #721812
      fjp
      Participant

      Jeez – that Ross guy is talking pure crap. Beautiful rhetoric, but crap none the less….

      Regarding employees not making statements about construction – that’s just sensible. Remember that whole thing about the Calatrava Bridge in nthis forum?? The company is better off making full statements, and if they have a little problem that they need to (and are able to) sort out, then let them do it without the papers attempting to crucify them. Every project/job I’ve worked on has seen teething problems that we overcame. It’s normal, but the Daily Mirror and The Sun don’t tend to show things in a balanced manner.

      A&E Departments: I’ve got a pal who works in one. He would like for people to stop going out at the weekend, getting plastered, and then ending up wasting their time on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Blame the drink industry??? No way – blame the Spike!!!

      fjp

    • #721813
      Niall
      Participant

      After all this is done, I wouldn’t let SIAC (the main contractor’s) open a crisp bag!

    • #721814
      Murpho
      Participant

      Thanks for the posting Paul.

      I have read that article 2 or 3 times now and I have no idea what this ‘journalist’ is on about.

      All sounds very intelectual with lots of big words but absolutely pointless.

      It’s really a case of damned if you do or damned if you don’t for Dublin Corpo.

      They are entrusted with trying to improve the city. This spire will be a major asset to the city.
      The €5m or so being spent on this project is peanuts when compared to all the tribunals that have happened in the past. €5m will not go anywhere to solving the social problems in the city. Money will not stop people buying drugs or sleeping on the street nor will it improve the efficiencies of a health system.

      Anyhow, what else do they want instead of the spire to represent the country? An unspiring statue of Eamon DeValera, that would be covered in pigeon shit within a month? A giant crucifix? Roy Keane or Gay Byrne?
      A statue of an altar boy surrounded by lusting priests?

      These critics who just criticise for the sake of it really piss me off!

    • #721815
      urbanisto
      Participant

      I suppose it their job. Besides the whole point of public art is to stimulate debate and discourse.
      I cant help but agreeing with the comments about the Michael Ross article… so its all Garret Fitzgerald’s fault eh! All the sordid and less than wholesome features of Irish life since the 70s…. poor auld Garret. No Temple Bar or Docklands or revamped Dublin Castle or Government Buildings for him….

    • #721816
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Another attempt will be made this afternoon to construct the Spire or Spike of Dublin. It is hoped the fourth section will be erected after lunchtime, the fifth section by evening, and the sixth and final section before dawn tomorrow.

    • #721817
      GregF
      Participant

      The weather looks pretty fine now…so let’s hope they do it

    • #721818
      Ebear
      Participant

      I get depressed when I see ads in the IT asking “Has your house been burglarized?” (presumably by burglarizers). I get even more depressed when I see those privileged to have received a good education and a love of language using it for obscure and empty rhetoric like this, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

      . . . appropriately reaching completion in a week in which Ireland’s hospital service suffered unprecedented crisis

      /in which a celebrity chef gave a new meaning to “Hot Buns”/in which the Celtic Tiger’s motorway infrastructure was used to illustrate that E-Ireland is still an agricultural society/in which the lessons of Saipan drove the mandarins of the FAI to levels of secrecy that would leave Stalin open to allegations of Glasnost/in which . . .

      Choose from any of the above.

      This is not “appropriate”. This is fill-in-the-blanks journalism. Cynicism is cheap.

    • #721819
      Jim Cumiskey
      Participant

      Good view (from the bridge) at

      http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm

    • #721820
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Hope it goes up today… no sign of movement from the big crane yet. If I see any I’ll let you know (got a good view of it from Ballsbridge).

      James

    • #721821
      Anonymous
      Participant

      crane is not up yet anyway, good view on camvista.com (just wait for the camera to pan around) … the city councils cams are not working (again!)

    • #721822
      Niall
      Participant

      Here we go again… Considering the EIS was signed by Ministerial order in December 2000, i.e all planning delays exhausted, what fool decided to put it up in December/January?

      and what happened between December 2000 and December 2002?

      Anway, another instalement in the longest running construction soap-opera……

      From Ireland.com

      High winds delay erection of Spire again
      By Kilian Doyle Last updated: 20-01-03, 12:45

      Engineers mustered on O’Connell Street this morning for what could be the final chapter of the long-running saga of the Dublin Spire.

      However, plans to erect the fourth section of the monument have been put on hold as strong winds whipped up around the capital this morning. It is thought there will be a delay of at least several hours.

      Earlier, a Dublin City Council spokeswoman said it was “all systems go” if the weather held, allowing the final three sections of the monument to be lifted into place by tonight.

      She said engineers were hoping to slot the next section in place at around noon, with the next two pieces being erected at 6.00 p.m. and 9.00 p.m.

      The spokeswoman said it was still hoped the final touches on the controversial structure would be made early tomorrow morning.

      The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.

      The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering. The Spire stands at 53 metres. When finished, it will be 120 metres high, seven times the height of the surrounding buildings on O’Connell Street and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.

    • #721823
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I swear its like we’re all waiting outside the delivery room in a maternity hospital. When they do finally finish it, we should buy a bottle of decent whiskey, meet at it and have a wee shot each 😉 or a cigar…

    • #721824
      PaulC
      Participant

      sounds like a bloody good idea Paul!!!

    • #721825
      GregF
      Participant

      …… open the champers too!

    • #721826
      urbanisto
      Participant

      Aaaah poor auld Liberty Hall..the old girl loses her coveted place as the city highest landmark.

    • #721827
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant
    • #721828
      DavidF
      Participant

      some pics of that flagpole can be seen here – http://www.usflag.com/poles/monsterInstall_400.html

    • #721829
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Nearly exactly the same assembly process!

      I was on the Street this morning, and the first time I have seen it in dazzling sunshine, it looks spectacular!!! It stands out like a beacon between buildings & streets, over the highest terraces and pierces into the smallest of gaps, vistas and vantage points. It’s blinding to look at, esp coming up Nth Earl Street, and just gets bigger and bigger as you approach (obviously!).

      I’m pleased to see that those smudges and streaks mentioned many times before, appear, in the bright sunshine, simply to be markings caused by the wrapping, and will be polished off, although the factory joins are still evident; I’ll let them away on that, only barely though!

      In Washington, no building is allowed to be over 14/15 storeys so as not to be taller than the dome of the Capitol Building, will similar priviliges be granted to the Spire? (discounting the Poolbeg Chimneys of course)

      Its 14.28, looking out my window, no movement on crane yet.

    • #721830
      urbanisto
      Participant

      That is the Spike isnt it!?

      Do you think it will fall victim to a Sinn Fein inspired plan to fly a wee tricolor from the top with some tasteful Bobby Sands posters adorning the base…. Tiocaidh ar la?

    • #721831
      ro_G
      Participant

      Purely for speculation, anyone know why the settled on it’s current height. Is it a function of the width of the base due to having to fit on the median between the roadway?

    • #721832
      ro_G
      Participant

      Originally posted by DavidF
      some pics of that flagpole can be seen here – http://www.usflag.com/poles/monsterInstall_400.html

      wow … they make it look so simple 😉

    • #721833
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Crane’s up!

    • #721834
      Murpho
      Participant

      lostcarpark

      I’m confused now as the Irish Independent report that they won’t start until this evening, see text below:

      Completion of Spire delayed again

      15:33 Monday January 20th 2003

      The next phase in the completion of the Millennium Spire in Dublin’s O’Connell Street has been delayed until this evening. The first of the remaining three sections was due to be put in place this afternoon but it has been postponed until later this evening due to strong winds. Engineers from Dublin City Council are using one of the largest cranes in Europe to finish the Spire which, when completed, will stand 120 metres tall.

      So what’s happening there?

    • #721835
      DavidF
      Participant

      from Ireland.com

      High winds delay erection of Spire again
      By Kilian Doyle Last updated: 20-01-03, 15:37

      Engineers are readying themselves to install the fourth section of the Spire on Dublin’s O’Connell Street.

      Plans to lift the length of stainless steel into place this morning were abandoned as strong winds whipped up around the capital.

      However, a Dublin City Council spokesman told ireland.com that it was hoped the work could be carried out “within the next couple of hours”.

      If conditions remained favourable this evening, engineers will continue working for as long as is practical, he said. However, “health and safety is paramount at all times.”

      He said the plan was to have the final pieces in place in order to be able to make the final touches on the structure early tomorrow morning.

      The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.

      The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering, which will be removed at the official unveiling, either at the end of this month or early next month.

      The three-section long Spire currently stands at 53 metres. When finished, it will be 120 metres high, seven times the height of the surrounding buildings on O’Connell Street and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.

    • #721836
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      According to Newstalk
      “crane is supposed to be fully up… two hour wind test and 7pm start”
      Just going out for a visual check on crane erectness

    • #721837
      alastair
      Participant

      it (the crane) seems to be a bit higher than it was last week? (from my window anyway)

    • #721838
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      Crane is now fully up again.

    • #721839
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      I’m looking out a 6th floor Ballsbridge window, so I can see the crane is vertical, but can’t offer a lot more detail. It still facing away from the spike, so presumably it will shortly be turned around.

      I can’t offer any insight as to when the next piece might be going up, but if I see anything, I’ll let you know!

      James

    • #721840
      Murpho
      Participant

      Paul: You obviously know a lot about erections as it took you only 2 minutes to report back 😀

    • #721841
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      I only have to walk 30 feet to check :p

    • #721842
      Anonymous
      Participant

      rte is saying 7.30 …

    • #721843
      ro_G
      Participant

      Going down for 7:30 tonight for a look myself.

      Tonights forecast: Slack winds, extensive mist and fog patches, frost in places. Risk of an isolated shower. According to Met Eireann, but then again, they always say that 😀

      http://www.weather.ie/forecasts/regional.asp?Prov=Dublin

    • #721844
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      see you there ro

    • #721845
      LOB
      Participant

      Michael Ross, I fear,has a severe case of Verbal Diarrhoea

    • #721846
      Niall
      Participant

      No excuses with the weather then…

    • #721847
      GrahamH
      Participant

      I’m hoping that I will have left the city with it half finished, and to return in the morning with it fully assembled, reaching for the skies. Hoping being the key word….

    • #721848
      fjp
      Participant

      Oh well,

      My camera just can’t handle that little light, so here’s the weirdest set of photos you’re going to see of an actual piece being put in place (scroll waaaay down):

      MAKE LINK GO NOW!!!!!!

      fjp

      (jesus – they look weird)

    • #721849
      ro_G
      Participant

      Great piece of action as piece 4 was slotted in, with the guy inside the tube riding up on the crane and piece 3 and 4 slotting together eclipsing the torchlight from within.

      Seeing the swaying of the bucket full of bolts going up on the crane on a relatively calm night like tonight gave me much more empathy with the guys not attempting it on windier days.

      Overall, cold but essential viewing 🙂

    • #721850
      Murpho
      Participant

      FJP
      What can I say, you’ve been quicker than all the media in Ireland.
      Nothing on RTE or any newspaper sites, but your pictures have been almost live.

      A big thank you for this as I am en ex-pat who is rather sadly (in an anorak sort of way) trying to follow this from The Netherlands.

      Your pictures give a good impression of how the spire will look overnight too.

    • #721851
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      There was good crack down there tonight, I took this clip of the tube being straightened up.

      Unfortunately it’s around 2 megs, so apologies for the slow download time.

    • #721852
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Hey exceelent photos. Was down there a little after midnight, and was just in time to see piece number 5 be hoisted into place. It was quite a sight. It sure is getting tall!

      Can’t wait to see the last section go up tomorrow.

      James

    • #721853
      Ebear
      Participant

      Just saw piece 5 go up. I’m in Temple Bar posting. There seem to be problems with this penultimate piece. There’s still a chink of light, clearly visible from the quays, and a sound of frantic hammering from above, unlike the 4th piece which went in quite smoothly.

      Assuming all is well and they close off the gap, I asked one of the guys what time the last piece is going up and he said 10 o’clock.

      So turn off the alarm clock, Paul.

      See you there.

    • #721854
      ro_G
      Participant

      10am – hmmm – best go to work so 🙁

    • #721855
      Rory W
      Participant

      I heard that section 5 had to be taken down again for cleaning and that it would be going back up at 10 this morning with the final sections going up about 12 – anyone else here this

    • #721856
      Murpho
      Participant

      According to RTE (Who’s news site is terrible) the cleaning of the 5th section has already happened and it is now back in place and the final section will be erected at 10am.

      Can’t find any pictures anywhere of how O’Connell St looks now.

      FJP it seems that your services are required again!

    • #721857
      ro_G
      Participant

      was down there at 7:30 this morning. They had the wrapping off the final ‘long section’ and were giving it a good cleaning. Also, it looked as if they had already hoisted up the bolts to secure the final sub assembly. SIAC told me hopefully up for 10-ish. The tai-chi guys merely hummed.

    • #721858
      PaulC
      Participant

      Are the Tai Chi guys there every morning or was it just this morning? It gave the whole thing a mystical feel.
      Looks very impressive. I wish I worked in the city centre.

    • #721859
      GregF
      Participant

      Tai Chi …..aka The Falun Gong crowd are there every morning and your right it does give a new age religious feeling…..almost mystical, esoteric, etc.,,,,, Michael O Nuallain aka ‘bonkers’ on the radio now on Morning Ireland complaining about it but even he has admitted, biting tongue and all that it looks good, sounds pissed as well; members of public too are asked what they think of it…the replies are all favourable.
      Here’s to the Spire….
      I heard some ejit too has suggested calling it the Brian Boru Spire……oh dear!

    • #721860
      ew
      Participant

      I can’t make it for 10. No fair! Should be a national holiday. Anyway it was looking great at dawn this morning. The finish is brilliant.

      Watching the guys polishing the section on the ground with what looked like brasso, I noticed there’s a round side vent about 10cm diameter which protrudes a couple of cms. It’s located near the green tempory collar. You can see the collar at

      http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/spike-030115-14-tip-detail.jpg

      Any ideas what it’s for? I guess I won’t be able to see it again anyway but I’m curious.

      Also, I’ve heard theres to be a red aviation light on the tip. How whould this be mounted?

      http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/spike-030115-21-tip-detail.jpg

      You’re right about the Tai Chi – there were tv lights behind them and they looked like statues sillouetted on the street. Like the famine memorial gone wrong. Wish I had a camera with me.

      For any expats out there – 2fm (ryan show) are doing live coverage which should be available streaming on web.

    • #721861
      ED209
      Participant

      Sue, are you from Clontarf? lol

    • #721862
      Murpho
      Participant

      So what is the latest?

      Is section 5 installed or not?

      Is the crane still erect?

    • #721863
      ro_G
      Participant

      Yes and yes.

    • #721864
      Murpho
      Participant

      Great, so it looks like it will definitely be finished today.
      Thank heavens for this site. It appears to be the only source of info on the progress.

      RTE & Newspapers have dated info and worst of all Dublin City Council have no updates at all.

      You’d think they could have put a webcam on the GPO or from Clery’s?

    • #721865
      Niall
      Participant

      From Ireland.com

      Dublin Spire to be completed this morning
      Last updated: 21-01-03, 09:30

      The sixth and final section of the Dublin Spire is to be lifted into place this morning as engineers take advantage of the calm weather in the capital.

      A spokeswoman for Dublin Ctiy Council said work would be completed at 10.00 a.m.

      The Spire on O’Connell Street at daybreak this morning

      The fourth and fifth sections were installed overnight after strong winds, which had hampered efforts to complete the job yesterday, eased.

      When complete, the Spire will rise 120 metres from its two-metre-wide base opposite the GPO on O’Connell Street. This is seven times the height of the surrounding buildings and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.

      The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.

      The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering, which will be removed when construction on securing the base is complete.

    • #721866
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Passed close by this morning, and it looks great. Unfortunately you can barely see it from Ballsbridge at the moment. The crane stands out, but the spike get’s lost in the mist.

      Did you notice how every news report suddenly started picking up on “Europe’s biggest crane” around the same time?

      James

    • #721867
      GrahamH
      Participant

      My secret shame, I was watching Questions & Answers last night, and suffice to say when the issue of the Spire arose, the usual hacks spun out the usual crap. Out of the 5 panelists & a 60 person audience, the grand total of 1 proclaimed to be in favour of the project. Comments included the usual:

      “We could fund 40 hospital beds with 4 million”

      “Disgraceful expenditure of public funds when people are homeless in the streets”

      “At a time of cutbacks, to be spending this amount…”

      “It dosn’t even connect with the people with a basic viewing platform”

      And blah blah blah blah blah.

      The only opposing view came from presenter John Bowman!, who suggested that we sell all the paintings in the National Gallery and spend the funds on the Health Service, at which point everyone became strangely meek…..

    • #721868
      Rory W
      Participant

      Ah sure we could burn the book of kells as well, that could keep a homeless man warm for the night

    • #721869
      ro_G
      Participant

      Good man John Bowman! And I’m sure the same sceptical folk interact with those painting on a daily basis themselves. Point well made.

      And as for the question of building something that people can climb up upon and view the city …
      having it as a viewing tower would be terrible in my opinion.
      1. Do we really want huge queues all day down O Connell Street. Not a good idea, especially with tram queues, a non-pedestrianed street, and the retail tenants.
      2. Tawdry stalls hawking awful replicas, ashtrays and tshirts to queuers.
      3. Theres feck all to see apart from the Dublin Mountains. And you can see them better by going to Sally Gap.

    • #721870
      ro_G
      Participant

      some audio reports here from RTE
      http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0121/spire.html

    • #721871
      dpower
      Participant

      we already have a viewing tower- the Smithfield chimney, or the guinness sky lounge.

      wanting to ascend the spire is a little primative.

    • #721872
      Niall
      Participant

      Dublin has two viewing towers already.. Jameson’s and Guinness, these do the job.

      I think putting one up in the middle of O’Connell Street would have been very passé

    • #721873
      ew
      Participant

      Latest news report says that final section will be lifted “within next hour” completed at 11:30

    • #721874
      DaM
      Participant

      how come there wasnt the same amount of outrage when the 20% social housing scheme was scrapped?????…

    • #721875
      Rory W
      Participant

      Because we are a nation of small minded folk who care when it suits us – if you want to solve the crisis in health/homeless etc etc you will have to pay more tax.

      And you try finding out who wants less money to take home….

    • #721876
      ro_G
      Participant

      looks like the baby crane has started moving
      http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm

    • #721877
      GrahamH
      Participant

      One of the best views of the Spire is from outside Easons looking north (towards it). It’s starkly modern, sleek and unadorned profile contrasts spectacularly with the exquiste detailed frieze and fluted columns of the GPO, the overall vertical emphasis being particularly stunning, esp in the dazzling sunshine, which highlights the stone relief.

    • #721878
      GrahamH
      Participant

      At last! RTE’s environment correspondent Paul Cunningham has got his act together. Sweeping pompous journalistic attitudes to one side, he openly expressed his opinion of the Spire at 7.10 this morning on Morning Ireland. In the first positive comments of the scupture expressed on RTE Television & Radio, he described the wonderful play of light on the steel at different times of day, arguably the most charming, yet most neglected aspect of the Spire, also mentioning it’s radical, yet elegant design and the spectacular impact it has on the Street.
      With between 400,000 – 500,000 people listening, it can only have had a positive effect on public opinion. Keep it up Paul!

      (RTE is keeping an OB unit on the Street all day so coverage should improve, as it appears to have done over the past 48 hours)

    • #721879
      ew
      Participant

      It’s being lifted in to place now !

    • #721880
      GrahamH
      Participant

      Yaaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m up to the top floor, and then over to the Street.

    • #721881
      ro_G
      Participant

      They’ve added a second more spire-centric picture on ireland.com

      http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm

    • #721882
      ew
      Participant

      Just in time – well done (finally) ireland.com

      Ian richie has been on the radio and answered my previous question about the aviation light. There has been a temporary light attached to the top of the spire. Within 2 weeks the internal light will be installed, wired up, and pullyed into place and the temporary light can go as the block light will serve.

    • #721883
      Murpho
      Participant

      Well , from what I can see on the webcam it looks like the final piece is in place. Brilliant.

      Listened to an interview with the City Manager on Morning Ireland who stated that the costs of The Spire at €4.5m represent about 1% of the total budget for the regeneration of O’Connell Street. Found that really put things into perspective, should stop the whingers and begrudgers now!

      So who’s going to be the first to put pictures up?

    • #721884
      ro_G
      Participant

      and she’s there! Wahey!




    • #721885
      Andrew Duffy
      Participant

      The historic moment from Harold’s Cross:

    • #721886
      ro_G
      Participant

      can see the monument from the hump on Greenhills Road in Walkinstown, although not as clearly as Andrews.

    • #721887
      alastair
      Participant

      here’s a (slightly dodgy) panorama of it from north earl st. Link to a larger version below.

      http://www.hexhibit.com/spirebig.jpg

    • #721888
      lostcarpark
      Participant

      Great picture, but I’m a little worried at the angle it’s leaning to. And that kink in the middle is a rather disturbing too!

      And how did that helicoptor get tangled in the crane wires?

      🙂

      James

    • #721889
      alastair
      Participant

      my ode to tabloid style photo reportage.

      btw – key humourous note of the ‘capping show – when some poor sod chose this morning’s crowded o’connell street to carry home a length of about 12 foot of 1/4 inch copper piping. his own little spike.

      http://www.hexhibit.com/spire2big.jpg

    • #721890
      iuxta
      Participant

      popped down to see it at lunch today and took some pics. It looks good and its great to see so many folks interested in it. You just stop and watch the other pedestrians walking with their heads facing upwards and then bumping into one another.

    • #721891
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      AMAZING….SPECTACULAR…FANTASTIC… SURREAL…ANIMATED….AWESOME…..

      And I can see it from Glasnevin. Well, it was worth the wait. One woman said that its beauty makes the Eiffel Tower look hideous!!!!!

      Well that’s a new one!

      J.

    • #721892
      PaulC
      Participant

      JOKE FOR TODAY
      =============
      When the Spike has finally been completed you will be able to
      walk down O’Connell street singing….

      > > > > Wait for it….

      > > > > I can see Clery’s now the crane has gone

    • #721893
      ro_G
      Participant

      fuppin hell – that beacon is rubbish – i presume it is temporary

      love the pictures though alastair

    • #721894
      fjp
      Participant

      ok

      My images are up. About 70 images total, but I had to rush the colour balancing so some are a bit dodgy. The order is also incorrect here and there due to a naming mess up (caused by the aforementioned rushing).

      http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/

      fjp

    • #721895
      iuxta
      Participant

      from lunch time today

    • #721896
      iuxta
      Participant

      it really looked great in the sunshine today. I cant wait for the crane to be taken off the site so you can see it uninterrupted.

      If you stand close to the base and look up, you get quite a vertiginous feeling.
      One women doing it sorta staggered and tottered backwards for a few paces………before composing herself and hurrying off.

    • #721897
      J. Seerski
      Participant

      Great Photos lads!!!!

    • #721898
      Niall
      Participant

      Here here,

      FJP, you really provide a great service to posterity and to Dublin. These photos should be around a long time yet!

      Well done!

    • #721899
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      There’s two guys in a basket now removing the collar of the last section.

    • #721900
      ro_G
      Participant

      looking forward to Paul’s photos too. Are you going to post video too Paul?

    • #721901
      Far Glynn
      Participant

      Of course now there’s the same sense of anticipation about when the black wrapping is coming off and when are they going to light it up etc. etc… Anyone any ideas?

    • #721902