Craig Davis
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The architects are Murray O Laoire; there are more images and more info on it here
What I’ve outlined in my last post is a general opinion held by many architects and onlookers of the architectural scene here, including people I’ve talked to who worked for firms that received AAI awards over the years.
On the issue of visiting the projects surely a shortlist could be drawn up of finalists, of say 4 or 5 projects, from whom the winner of the Medal is chosen, as is the case with the Stirling Prize. Even the OPUS awards have incorporated site visits in their decision-making process. With the buildings short-listed this year it should have been quite easy to do, considering that 3/4s of the projects are in Dublin.
Originally Posted by what?
The idea that the awards list should be more varied this year is ridiculous.
Out of the 14 projects that got something this year 11 of them are by architects that didn’t feature at all last year.
Only 2 architects on that list were given anything last year.What?, I think you’ve been quite selective with your statistics here. Only 4 of the architects have not featured in the AAI awards previously. From your extremely defensive post I suspect my comments may have been too close to home, but I won’t pry. I think the point you make about the award boards being ‘anonymous’ is irrelevant here due to the relatively small size of the architectural scene in this country and considering that several of the projects have been featured in international publications. I certainly have no resentment towards the current or previous winners, in fact I applaud them for doing so well.
In defence of the AAI, they can only award what has been submitted. I do take issue however with what I perceive to be a lack of representation in the projects chosen; of those from Ireland only 3 are outside of Dublin. I find this troubling because it suggests that not a lot is being done in Ulster or west of the Shannon. This topic itself is worthy of a separate discussion.
Also there are very few large-scale projects here, the biggest probably being Athlone Civic Centre. Large projects offer the capacity to fulfil some of the intentions of the AAI awards; to inform the public of movements in contemporary architecture, as unlike with many of the private dwellings selected, here the public can interact and use and thereby appreciate more the value of well-designed buildings.Maybe type-specific awards can deal with this problem; for instance an award for the best unbuilt project. Perhaps a special award is required for larger projects such as retail, industrial projects & hospitals, and looking ahead, perhaps an award for the best
Public Private Partnership project.It could be argued that this is stepping on the toes of the RIAI awards. Again however I’d point out that as they have not been published in several years, the AAI awards book is now the de facto annual resource on quality Irish architecture, and because of this I feel that the AAI awards should broaden it’s representation to reflect that.
I had a look on maccreanor lavington’s website; which is worth a look; they’ve done some really nice stuff, and hopefully we’ll be seeing more of them in the future now that they’ve got an award!
I think the Bates Maher project is a worthy winner. But yes, only a couple of new names besides the usual clique.
The AAI awards are widely considered to be a closed shop by many who work in larger firms and for that reason they consider it a waste of time entering their projects.
Why is it that every year the assessors make the same complaints i.e. projects not being viewed on site, (if that is what happened again) and nothing is ever done about it? There has often been the call that there should be a separate award given for the best unbuilt project, and this appears to have been ignored yet again, and of course the creation of such an award would solve the problem that maggie mentions.
I think the AAI do a decent job with their limited resources, however considering the apparent incapacity of the RIAI in getting their own annual awards into book form the onus is on the AAI to become more attractive & inclusive if for the sole purpose of demonstrating to people with less familiarity of the Irish architectural scene that there is a much wider pool of talented architects operating in Ireland beyond the former associates of Group 91 and the usual suspects that the AAI awards to date.
I do not mean to imply that the likes of FKL, Grafton, OD+T and Boyd Cody are undeserving, I like much of their work, but when it’s two or three firms picking up the lions share of the awards in any one year it creates the perception that this country lacks depth in architectural talent.
From what I can see in the photos the new OPW-designed Galway City Museum seems like a well-considered addition, appears a bit busy though, however it’s scale & massing seem appropriately to its context. Reminds me of a Richard Meier beach house; neither an insult nor compliment, just an observation.
On the other hand the Fairgreen House development is shocking, it’s one of the worst looking schemes I’ve seen in recent years. By comparison it makes the new heap o’ crap on Dublin’s Capel Street look decent (well maybe not, but you see where I’m going with this).
What’s going on in Galway? It was once a decent-looking city. Dublin by-and-large, disregarding a lot of what was thrown up in the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s, has put most of it’s recent vomit-inducing monstrosities outside of the city-proper, however in Galway they’re plonked right in the city centre, and there are so many of them. Also Dublin because of it’s size can absorb more crappy developments and remain relatively unscathed, however Galway, being a small city, developments like this are having an immense impact on it’s general perception from a built environment point of view.
Are cities such as Galway & Limerick making the same mistakes now that were committed a generation ago & subsequently learned from in Dublin? Is there an attitude of any development is good development?
Yes, overall it’s of a high standard. Although it’s a pity that they’ve gone and saved costs by using faceted glazing at the entrance (as opposed to curved sheets); flat sheets or panels can work on a curve if they have a relatively narrow width, but the large sheets here make it look quite clunky. They’ve also used steel uprights to support the glazing at street level. For a high prestige location & client surely they could have used a superior system to achieve an uninterrupted façade. Small issues I know, but God is in the detail…
I agree with vinnyfitz about the branding, definitely could have been applied more subtly.
originally posted by ze lemon i would now like to develop that thread I’m very interested in the words are used to entice students
I’ve found that the following do it for a lot of students: ‘one of the professions’, ‘prestige’, ‘high points’ on the leaving cert & ‘high salary’
Also a common one I’ve heard directed towards architectural technology students working summer jobs in offices from architects; so you don’t want to be just be a techie all your life, do you?
I concur with the sentiments of Rory’s first line.
Originally posted by rgalvin:
we may have/be able to build enough venues and accommodate enough spectators.Don’t think we’d have a problem here. If the Greeks are having problems filling stadia, I can’t see us doing any better.
Originally posted by Diaspora:
Complete with monorailReminds me of a classic Simpson’s episode, although ours probably wouldn’t do as well.
– the road-widening programme & associated mass evictions
– Dublin new towns, including Tallaght & Blanchardstown; loosely based on the Myles Wright 1966 masterplan
– 1916 Rising
– the Age of Flight; Dublin Airport
– the Temple Bar redevelopmentUCC have applied for a 5902m sq Boole Library extension
Any idea of who the architects are for this lexington?
I think the lake by Park Ui Chaoimh is called Lough Mahon
It’s called Atlantic pond. That whole area, including the land on which Pairc Ui Chaoimh built, was a mud flat before being reclaimed from the River Lee when a dyke (now called The Marina road) was built sometime in the 19 century. It was a part of route for the old Cork, Blackrock & Passage Railway line.
In the Cork City Council masterplan for the area there’s a proposal of developing the pond into a marina, and of
harnessing opportunity for recreation and water activities through the introduction of a new internal dock and potential marina, and the establishment of an internal waterway corridor extending through the area towards Atlantic Pond
I think this could be great for the area, as its so under-utilised at present.
€150! Screw that!; get it on amazon.co.uk for £60.00 stg. equivalent to €90.00 + approx. €10 for postage
Metropolis – it’s just another word for the capital city of a country or the chief city of a province or region.
….or the title of one of the all time classics; Fritz Lang’s 1920s silent film about a futuristic city where the working classes live underground.
Sean you’re really trying to get a reaction- multiple postings of the same message?
Definition of metropolis; the capital city of a country. So there you go Sean; you’re in a metropolis as well!
– Liffey House, Tara Street by Donnelly Turpin
– North King Street apartments by Grafton Archs
– A walk around the IFSC
– Baldoyle Library by FKL
– Ranelagh School by O’Donnell + TuomeyWas it just me or did people have problems accessing the site earlier?
Graham it seems like anything that hurts your argument you term irrelevant or not the issue.
Earlier in the thread in discussing your proposal, it was with regard to the length of Westmoreland Street, however once phil pointed out that he couldn’t see how ‘the whole street such as this could be unified as you are advocating. It is a complete mix of styles from different periods’ , the relevant area of the street is reduced to being only from the junction with Fleet Street to the Quays.You say that the mentioning of the demolition of the York St. terrace and the present development of Dublin are not the issue. We have a government at present who don’t mind bulldozing through castles. I think in this vein the issues of conservation (at York St.) and national strategic planning are all relevant, as they paint the broader picture for the context in which such a proposal would be considered. Issues like this never exist in isolation.
‘With regard to the Venice Charter (and thanks for the info) I get the impression from the parts quoted that it’s still largely referring to ntl monuments’
The Venice Charter refers to the entire built heritage of historical & architectural significance. If you’re still skeptical as to its pertinence, and its subsequent impact on national legislation on the built environment in this country you could check out the ICOMOS website or contact NMAPD at Duchas.‘There is no need to extend the replica logic to inside’
Well isn’t that only because it hurts your argument?‘sure were that the case every shop in the city would be a repro!’
How? Why? Plenty of shops, offices etc. in the Dublin operate within listed interiors. In my view recreating the interiors is as logical as recreating the exteriors i.e. neither should be done.‘About the interiors – it’s not a wider issue than the exterior streetscape; it’s about just that – the exteriors!’
In other words your argument is solely on the exteriors. I think this narrow focus of façadism is one of the biggest hindrances to your proposal. When dealing with historical buildings the issue is never simply ‘just … the exteriors!’‘There is potential there that should be exploited.’
I can’t see it happening though, due to a lack of will, desire and legislation besides the issue of practicality. In my view for something like this to succeed as a general strategy there would need to be wide held support from the public as well as professional organisations.I totally agree that this is something that needs to be discussed. I’d be interested to know where do groups such as the Dublin Civic Trust, The Irish Georgian Society and An Taisce stand on this? What’s the general feeling out there about this?
Notjim it would be great if you could post any images of (or links to) the Nassau St. scheme
Graham you say that ‘it seems from what you say that is limited to ntl monuments which would be a different ball game’.
The Charter defines the term ‘monument’ as being equally applicable ‘not only to great works’ from the past ‘but also to more modest works of the past which have acquired cultural significance with the passing of time’. While originally the term was applicable to monuments it has since been extended to cover the built heritage. The aims of the Charter were effectively incorporated into Irish Law with the signing of the National Monuments Acts 1930-1994, followed by Local Government Planning Acts 1963-2000.
– In the preamble to the Venice Charter it is stated that ‘It is our duty to hand them on in the full richness of their authenticity’. i.e. they must be genuine.
– Article 3 states that ‘The intention in conserving and restoring monuments is to safeguard them no less as works of art than as historical evidence.’ Wouldn’t this be falsified evidence?
– Article 9 states that conservation work is ‘based on respect for original material’.
– Article 11 states that ‘The valid contributions of all periods to the building of a monument must be respected, since unity of style is not the aim of a restoration.’
– Article 12 ‘Replacements of missing parts must integrate harmoniously with the whole, but at the same time must be distinguishable from the original so that restoration does not falsify the artistic or historic evidence.’
– Article 15 states ‘All reconstruction work should however be ruled out “a priori.” Only anastylosis, that is to say, the reassembling of existing but dismembered parts can be permitted. The material used for integration should always be recognizable and its use should be the least that will ensure the conservation of a monument and the reinstatement of its form.’Graham you wrote that ‘essentially they used to exist but were wrongly demolished’ I think a statement like this is quite moralistic and an over-simplification of what happened. You may be of the opinion that what was done was wrong, but it is not a matter of fact. I’ve previously said that people who I’ve talked to about this issue, such as conservationists and conservation architects were against building mock facades like this. Are they wrong? I don’t think what you’re proposing is wrong I simply disagree with you on this.
‘Of course interiors would not be rebuilt, the issue is the exterior streetscape’.
I don’t advocate either, but if you’re going to rebuild the facade why not extend the logic of this idea to recreating the interiors as well? As you know Georgian redbricks were quite modest on the exterior but were they shone was through interior detail.
I think it is a much wider issue than the exterior landscape, however if this is your primary concern surely pedestrianisation of Westmoreland Street would be much more beneficial than simply recladding modern buildings from the first floor up.Would you propose that the owners of the Weston Hotel be ordered to remove the additional levels that were built which significantly increased the massing of the building(s) also (especially when seen from Pearse Street)?
I have much admiration for the work carried out by the Wide Streets Commission, and the grand ideas incorporated in their work. Sure it would be nice if the streets laid out according to their designs were still intact. I think Westmoreland Street would look better if the original Georgians which stood on the site of the EBS building had not been demolished. But it happened so lets move on.
There’s more important issues out there- such as the proposed demolition of the terrace on York Street, or the fact that Dublin covers 4 times the area of cities in Europe with equivalent populations- due to suburban sprawl, and continues to roll out over neighboring counties with banal ‘meritless’ semi-d’s.Speaking of Nassau St. is there any news on the possible development of the strip of land between the Trinity cricket pitch and and the street?
‘facadism’ can be shrouded in subjective arguements – but of course it is
Graham, I’m glad you agree. My point here is that because architecture is such a subjective issue how would such a proposal possibly be carried through. For instance would the property owner have any say in it? Would they have to fund it, if not should a CPO be placed on the property? Most conservation architects who I’ve talked to are totallly against such mock facades that you propose. This would be in contravention to several of the principles set out in the Venice Charter (on the conservation and restoration of monuments & sites). I’d be interested to know how a proposal like this could work, is it only the facade that would be ‘replicated’ or should the interiors be reproduced as well.
Who would decide on its appearance and who would get the final say on how it should look?A step towards improving the look of Westmoreland St. & O’Connell St. would be to solve the problem of rubbish bags being left out by businesses around there. Also to sort out the clutter of signs, street furniture & trees especially outside of Spar on the corner of Westmoreland street would help.
Whether you prefer a building that is architecturally honest is a matter of taste. The problem I would have with simply sticking a ‘ye olde’ Georgian façade on a building like the EBS is that that’s all it would be. Like the replicas on the corner of Baggot St. and Stephen’s Green; where you look inside and you can see the suspended ceilings. The only part replicated is the facade, but even here they lack the imperfections and distortions due to settlement etc.
I think buildings should be judged on their individual merits; if people in Dublin complained that a building like the EBS made Westmoreland Street feel abysmal, then by all means replace it. But I don’t get why it should be replaced with a building from a particular era of our architectural past. This is too subjective i.e. if you want to build something that looks ‘old’ you could argue that a medieval timber clad building has as much validity as does a Victorian, Georgian etc.
I’m no major fan of the EBS buildings but they ‘fit in’ in to the streetscape on several levels i.e. scale & following building line. Cities are constantly changing, and I like the fact that when walking around Dublin you can observe in the streetscape the impact that each generation had on the place. As has been said already the problem is quality of construction; I’d be doubtful of the chances of a Georgian building being replicated fatefully. It would also run in to building reg. problems, if you’re to replicate the flight of steps to the entrance you’ll have problems with disabled access etc. as well as requirements for elevators etc.
An alternative to replicas is a considered response to the site, context etc such as the office building next to the mansion house by Shay Cleary.
Here’s a night image of it which I think shows it off a bit better:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/2856/tribute/commercial/addams3.jpg
