bosco
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PTB – echoing my thoughts (pardon the pun!)
As for trams, guided busses, light rail etc… I’ve had a particular gripe I’ve wanted to get off my chest for ages. A few years ago when the first docklands plan became available for download on the city council’s website, I was delighted to see included in it an ambitious but realisable vision for either a light rail or guided bus line. The route shown was running from Mahon, along the old rail line, through the docklands, the city centre, down Western Road, via Victoria cross to Bishopstown and CIT. There were route maps and even a few pictures of trams and a guided bus for good measure.
Now, it seems to me the only major problem in constructing these tram lines or guided bus tracks would be the lack of space available in the city centre and at certain junctions. One of the major junctions along the route is at Victoria Cross, where one would expect a stop to be provided given the number of student apartments in the area. The existing 4 lane road is barely wide enough, in fact it is too narrow to comfortably fit 4 adjacent lanes of traffic when there is a bus or large truck involved. The footpaths are inadequate for the volume of pedestrians (mostly students). Add into the mix a few cars and vans parked on the footpath or side of the road, thanks to that new Centra (awful planning decision in the first place).
Now, where do they propose to squeeze in the light rail lines? Or a guided bus track? Or even a miserly painted bus lane separated from traffic? Meanwhile, a strip of land running alongside this road from the Clinic on Western Road to the Wylam Chinese has come up for redevelopment in some form or another in the past 3 years. While UCC’s IT building is still under construction on the Western Rd, the rest of the land has been blanketed in student apartment developments, all built right out to the edge of the site boundary, leaving no room for widening footpaths or allowing for future needs.
If you live on a boreen in the middle of the country and you wish to alter the entrance to your house or the boundary in any way, there are rules that oblige you to bring the new boundary back a certain distance from the road. Why on earth does the same not apply in the city? Especially at one of the busiest junctions where traffic can be disastrous at rush hour. Where they supposedly plan to provide a public transport corridor in the future? Where the footpaths are completely inadequate for the volumes of pedestrians using them every day?
I just can’t believe there was no way to force the developers to allow even a 5 meter gap between any development and the existing boundary, so that the land could be utilised in the future to widen the road or provide a separated rail/bus track.
Anybody have a clue what I’m talking about? 🙂
@Praxiteles wrote:
It was not difficult for Aer Lingus to double their services to the continent as they only had two routes from Cork: to Paris and Amsterdam. And, if you wish to avail of the services to “main” airports then in the case of Leonardo da Vinci, it operates only twice a week at present – and it should not be forgotten that Ciampino is much more efficient to clear and closer to downtown Rome!
Fair point, although you’ll see I said they doubled capacity not services. They had 2 aircraft in Cork, now there are 4, serving (…2 minutes til I check wikipedia…) Alicante, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin-Schönefeld, Birmingham, Faro, Lanzarote, London-Heathrow, Madrid, Malaga, Manchester [Starts March 2007], Nice [Starts March 2007], Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Prague, Rome-Fiumicino, Tenerife-South, Warsaw. Not every route is a daily flight, but it’s better than just London, Paris & Amsterdam!
I had that written before I saw your post, Pug, but it’s still relevant. Much as I’d love to see any airline offer a load of new routes from Cork, I doubt it would be Ryanair, and it certainly won’t be using the old terminal.
However, you mention ‘opening up Europe’ — well in the past 2 or three years Aer Lingus have doubled their capacity out of Cork and have started a load of new routes to new destinations — where they use airports acually located where you want to go 😉 So you can trek up to Shannon and go with Ryanair to Murcia, Rome Ciampino, Girona or Paris Beauvais; or you can go from Cork with Aer Lingus direct to the main airports of Alicante, Rome Da Vinci, Barcelona or Paris CDG.
@kite wrote:
😡 The lying politicians are not the only ones to blame on the Cork Airport dept.
The board of CAA should be seen to be independent, get up off their backsides and START doing what they get well paid for]Loose their fear of Ryanair exposing their lack of Airport know how and allow M.O’Leary use the old terminal as a hub. [/B]😮 The PD that nobody elected, Sen.John Minihan was on radio today, he is “furious, but not for resigning on the matterâ€, kind of says it all really?
Kite, you’re pretty much on the ball with everything so far, but I can’t agree with the popular concept of “let Ryanair take over the old terminal and everything will be great.”
The old terminal is, well, old; it would be in need of major investment just to bring it up to a standard where it would be fit to use as a passenger terminal again. Running a passenger terminal also involved serious logistical considerations – how would security, catering, cleaning, retail, car parking, administration etc be handled? How would revenues/costs be shared? The new terminal meanwhile is still well within capacity (despite the statistics thrown about) and it would make no sense at all to waste all this money on resurrecting a shabby old building while there is spare capacity in its adjacent neighbour.
Apart from the duplication of effort/cost, there are a few other reasons —Planning permission exists for one passenger terminal only. In order to secure planning for a second operational terminal, a full EIS would need to be carried out and other procedural matters would lead to a significant delay in achieving this (according to rumours at least)
There is insufficient aircraft parking space to base many more aircraft at Cork. As it is, private jets are routinely asked to vacate their parking stands while idle to facilitate scheduled operations, and during the busy summer months it has been known for planes full of passengers to be left waiting on the taxiway after landing for an available parking stand. The next proposed stage in developing more parking space incidentally involved the use of the 40 acre site currently receiving mention in the news. If the DAA get away with selling this for commercial development (and keeping/robbing the spoils for themselves) then future expansion will be seriously hindered. Not to mention that if the airport cannot even afford an extra airbridge for €400k (correct me if I’m wrong) right now, then with an extra €100,000,000 in debt I doubt they will be whipping out the check book for further capital spending any time soon.
Ryanair as it stands have no interest in developing new routes or business for Cork airport. Any new routes would dilute their operations at Shannon, where they are in receipt of a very favourable deal from the airport. Ryanair have done nothing but knock Cork airport in recent years, making a big fuss of increasing charges last year (proved to amount to less than 1c per passenger) and issuing doom & gloom press releases about moving Liverpool flights to Kerry airport. A few months later they come back with their tail between their legs, move the flights back to Cork without any media attention. They congratulated themselves on opening up a ‘new Cork base’ last year, but in fact have only succeeded in driving Easyjet out of Cork. Since Easyjet left, Ryanair have all but abandoned the Gatwick route on which they competed, instead focussing their attentions on Aer Arann, whom they are attempting to drive off the Cork-Dublin route. The airline that claims to be pro-competition is obviously doing more harm than good at Cork– pushing competitors out and then cutting back on flights.
Although it may be difficult to reconcile after saying that, I’m not anti-Ryanair at all. I just want to show that it’s not just a matter of handing over an idle building to an airline and sitting back to watch tons of new business roll in. And I would predict that in the event of any Ryanair expansion at Cork, instead of opening routes to new destinations they would instead go head to head with an established airline and try to drive them away.
What is that material used for the exterior of the school of music – like fake beige marble tiles? Just noticed it seems to be popular among new developments – Lavitts quay and Cork Airport terminal & fire station among other recently completed developments with the same cladding.
@jungle wrote:
It was bought by the Rebel Bar Group – owners of Redz, Paddy The Farmer’s and Instinct among others. That should guarantee that it remains as some kind of licensed premises.
If memory serves me correctly, the self same Rebel Bar Group bought the (former) Tower Inn two years ago — the pub may not have been the most glamorous but it had the nicest beer garden in the city area. They promptly demolished it to make way for apartments.
Having said that, it seems the Savoy will continue as a club venue for the foreseeable future, and hopefully as a concert venue too although little in the way of new gig announcements have happened lately.
Did anyone notice the headline on the front of Saturday’s Evening Echo?
Something like “Drain south channel of Lee and put a LUAS in it”
… suggestion from Roger Flack in a speech at the Cork Chamber of Commerce do on Friday night.By the way, speaking of the docklands (earlier), what would ye think of something like this for Cork….
@ivuernis wrote:
I was hoping it would re-open relatively unscathed but if it’s O’Callaghan Properties then that does not look like the outcome. Wouldn’t the Bodega building be listed and any re-development be limited in scope and thus the building’s use in terms of what type of business could be located there?
Did O’Callaghan’s just buy the building and did the Bodega people keep the pub license?
Staff were given two weeks notice last week. It’s a right shame because whatever your opinion of the Bodega as a bar, it livened up the street day and night. It’s absence will be noticed when the street is finally revamped and there is nowhere to get a coffee/sandwich and sit outside.
Of course for the past year Jay Bourke was repeatedly quoted in the papers as saying the Bodega was not for sale, even as recently as three weeks ago when the Savoy was sold. Credit where it’s due though — Mr Bourke & co started the Bodega from scratch and thus helped provide a precedent for new establishments in the area.
I noticed speculation in one of the papers that O’Callaghan may be considering using the Bodega building for a swap with another business…. e.g. Meadows & Byrne who have a prime site on Academy Street right beside his new flagship development. Probably pure speculation…
Here’s what Jurys looks like by night:
…and you can see the adjacent apartment block under construction in this photo:
@Radioactiveman wrote:
There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723Fax: + 353 21 4924706
e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie
I pass this junction regularly on my way to work and I cannot believe how they are getting away with this. If they somehow got permission or get retention, it still beggers belief. The new structures have been built right out almost to the edge of the street, leaving a tiny strip of footpath. This is one of the busiest junctions in the area, and in morning and evening rush hours it is full of vehicular and pedestrian traffic going in all directions. If anything they should have been forced to move the boundary back from the street, not bring it closer. Now there won’t even be room for 2 people to pass on the footpath without stepping out into the traffic.
As clichéd as this sounds, it won’t be long before there’s an accident there and a pedestrian is knocked down.
While I was in the area I took a snap or two of the library extension:
@a boyle wrote:
you need to look at this on a national basis. cork has enough to support a small airport . but if shannon was connected with a railway line to galway limerick and cork it could no doubt support 20 million people a year.
you would need to have two track the whole way between cork and galway. If you built them to 200 km/h spec. it would only take about 40 minutes. That is no skin off anyone’s nose. It take much longer to get to dublin airport from parts of dublin.
but if you had it in shannon it would be within reach of all the people on the eastern side of the country , a big number.
the reason i say that the hundred and eighty million (a number that appears to be in dispute , but even if it cost only 80 million it doesn’t matter). Yes say it cost eighty million. Well ryanair built on in germany with the same capacity for 18 million. I understand that what is built in cork has plummeted the airport in debt , which the ‘company’ is petrified of. So i think i can safely say the money was squandered.
If you wanted to spend 180 million on cork , having built a railway line to galway, you could build a short light rail route which passed by the busiest parts of cork. That would be better for everyone.
In is a bit obnoxious but germany did it and they have no traffic jams. You do not build roads trains airports where people are currently going or would like to go. You built these things where you want people to go. !! So if you look at a map of the german motorway system there are almost no direct motorway connection between cities. It is a tough idea to get your head around but it is the right way to do things (it just pisses off a lot of people until it is done —> of course that is how you know you are doing the right thing!!)
This misconception about the Cork/Hahn comparison is often introduced into debates about Cork airport. In fairness, it shows how effective Ryanair’s PR machine is, but the facts of the matter are different.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/06/22/story38861991.asp
Development plans for Cork Airport were formulated in consultation with airlines and their representatives, and their combined views significantly influenced the ultimate plan.
Many of the issues at Cork have their roots in its original 1950s design, which left it too small and constrained to handle the growing demand from new and existing airlines, and to cater adequately for the stringent safety and security measures required of international airports. We had proposed a less ambitious expansion at Cork, but the airline users vehemently objected and demanded a new building rather than the planned extension to the existing building. A consultation process resulted in a plan that met the airlines’ requirements as well as meeting all other associated demands for infrastructure, utilities etc.
But let me address Ryanair’s specific cost comparisons of the development at Frankfurt Hahn and at Cork.
Firstly, the new terminal at Cork will cost €]
Then, regarding Shannon airport:
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/06/25/story15278.asp
Shannon to lose €10m following US departure
Sunday, June 25, 2006 – By Niamh Connolly, Political Reporter
Politicians were warned last week that Shannon Airport’s viability was in doubt, and its separation from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) was unlikely to take place in the foreseeable future.The largest carrier of US military personnel through Shannon, World Airways, will move its primary stopover for flights to Leipzig in Germany. GaryMcGann, chairman of the DAA, told an Oireachtas committee last week that Shannon’s ‘‘significant underlying losses’’ were masked by the impact of US military traffic. He said costs were too high and out of step with Dublin and Cork airports. McGann did not quantify the losses but said that the revenue from the US military flights was ‘‘shoring up’’ income at Shannon by between €7million and €9million a year.
The Sunday Business Post has learned that when military activity is stripped out, Shannon Airport’s losses amounted to €2.25 million for January and February of this year. The withdrawal of the Shannon stopover this November, which is expected to cost at least €4million a year in revenue, puts the airport on an even more insecure financial footing. The airport still needs money for capital expenditure on buildings, its airside ramp and runway. Maintenance costs are expected to run to €10million over the next six years. ‘‘Shannon is not viable; it’s losing money,” McGann told the committee last week. ‘‘In the last year or two, it has been supplemented in its income because of military traffic.
There’s no prospect of Shannon being viable at all in the next number of years; hence no prospect of separation.”
And I must also agree with A-ha above. One particular example: It is well known that a deciding factor for EMC to locate in Cork was the availability, proximity and convenience of Cork airport. EMC fly in customers to visit their plant on their own jets which are based in Cork. EMC employs around 1600 in Cork, I think.
@jungle wrote:
On the NRR, I think it splits into two sections – between the Limerick and Dublin roads and from the Limerick road to Ballincollig. The first of these is needed sooner. At the moment traffic from the Limerick road is feeding into the city centre or small suburban roads regardless of its destination. It should be linked in to the existing ring road network and also have easier access to the port. The second strikes me as something of a vanity project. I can’t imagine the traffic volumes from the Limerick road towards West Cork and Ballincollig require a road like that proposed yet. In the medium term, a decent link road from the old Blarney Road (Kerry Pike Road) to the Lee Road would suffice.
I have to stronly disagree with you on this one, jungle. As it stands, traffic from west Cork, Kerry, Ballincollig, Ovens and the southern suburbs of the city must travel through the city centre or Sunday’s Well to get access to the northdside of the city, North county Cork, Limerick etc (unless they use completely inadequate country lanes between Macroom and Blarney). The amount of heavy goods vehicles using Shanakiel for example is unsustainable and the road network in the area is entirely unsuitable for this purpose. Likewise the morning and evening rush hour traffic on the country roads around Kerrypike, Inniscara, Tower etc is dangerous as well as stressful for those stuck in it or living near it.
The completion of the ring road around the city is essential to reignite the stagnated growth of the north and west sides of the city, and to divert the thousands of vehicles that use other less suitable routes every day. My only concern is that those involved in planning and selecting the route do not repeat the mistakes made in Dublin by choosing a route too close to the city. Also, for the road to fulfil its purpose, the designers should only put interchanges where absolutely necessary, and avoid building too many link roads.
As for the airport… I’d agree that segregating departing traffic will cause some confusion, but I can see where they’re coming from. Now that the exams are over in the schools, the chaos is really going to start. The major problem this time of year is congestion – primarily with charter flights. If they can get those crowds out of the old terminal then it might just cope with another summer peak season. Also, any teething problems that become apparent in the immediate aftermath of commencing operations in the new terminal could be resolved before the scheduled airlines move operations; thus avoiding pissing off the best clients!
Compared to last summer, Ryanair and Aer Lingus now have extra planes based in Cork so it will be even more chock-a-block.
@rebel_city wrote:
Thirdly, what’s going on up at the airport? Thought is was opening last October, then May! I’ve been looking at the Cork Airport website and there’s barely a mention of the new airport. etc., it’s a really poor website. A new site should be put up to coinside with the new terminal.
Cork is really getting screwed from every angle. I’ve often wondered why the three airports had such a poor web presence, but lately it appears that the DAA website and those of Dublin and Shannon airports have been completely redesigned. Cork airport’s website however is still the shambles it has been for years.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9070-2209563,00.html
DAA’s new look
When you are set to make €200m (or much, much more) from selling off a few hotels, spending €50,000 must seem like small potatoes. But it’s money well spent by the Dublin Airport Authority, which has upgraded its online presence from the internet equivalent of a down-at-heel pound shop.
The clunky old site has been replaced with snazzy new sites for the DAA (dublinairport authority.com) and the capital’s airport (dublinairport.com), designed by Irish web designers Red Sky. Shannon has also got in on the act with a sexy new internet presence, but Cork airport remains lumbered with the same ugly old site.
Maybe money’s a bit tight in the south since every last bob was spent on Cork’s new gold-plated terminal.
Any news on the proposed development for this site? http://flickr.com/photos/paulratigan/95524420/
@A-ha wrote:
The road from the bridge at the turn off for EastGate/Little Island up as far as the roundabout for the tunnel has been made three lanes in each direction. Will this be carried on further or is it just that stretch of road? I don’t see why that road hasn’t been given motorway status…. seen as most motorways in Ireland don’t have three lanes anyway, half the roads in Dublin aren’t even motorways by British/European standards. Is it the governments plan to give it to M status?
Not everyone is allowed use motorways – Learner drivers, Cyclists, Slow vehicles etc. Therefore for every stretch of motorway, alternate routes must exist for these road users, and that’s why some motorway quality dual-carriageways have not been afforded official motorway designation.
@securityman wrote:
On a final note anyone notice all of a sudden there is a lot pubs opening up again
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The Classic is reopening with a night club upstairs on south main st
Nearby on south main st another nightclub is due to open next year where the old scouts hall was
The guys that own the East Village in douglas are opening a bar called SOHO on Grand Parade where Doyles was at one stage
A new bar also looks like it will replace Lebowskis on Marlborough St with construction underway at presentI have to disagree with you there. There are a few new bars opening. But for every poncey new bar that opens in the city centre, we have lost a few pure gems of pubs in the city, suburbs and county.
(To clarify, in my opinion at least – bar = stainless steel, chrome finish, UV lighting, uncomfortable faux-leather seating, complete absence of atmosphere. Pub = public house – nice place to relax, have a pint and read the paper or chat idly. The difference is significant!)
Eastern elevation (landside)
Car Park and utilities building
Other building work in progress – new aircraft hangar:
New hotel in Business Park
I’ll try and take some airside shots on a day with better lighting conditions, so you can appreciate all that glass 😉
Hi all, I’ve been reading this thread for a good while now; I’ve enjoyed and appreciated a lot of the contributions, it’s a great resource to know what’s going on in the city and county. I have strong opinions on many of the topics, esp. regarding strategic planning for the city, transport and the docklands, but I never seem to find the time to post my rants. Sometime soon, no doubt!
Anyway, I see some of you were looking for photos of the new terminal development at the airport, so I hope some of these help.
(Click on thumbnail to view photos)
View from the approach road to the airport terminals, with the old terminal to the left, and the new to the right of the overhead gantries.
Southern (old terminal) side of new terminal building.
Northern elevation (taken from top of new car park)
