Developments in Cork
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@Pug wrote:
this is getting silly
Bord Pleanala have pushed the decision on werdna out to ……
15th December
With the power ABP has comes responsibility.
😡 ABP are hardly basking in any glory with this type of carry on, they should be “disbanded†and a genuine appeals board formed in their place.a tad extreme but there should definetely be an inspection into the decision where planning authorities grant permission for developments and bord pleanala then come along and refuse it outright or apply 20 conditions. ABP should be a last resort, not something for the planning authority to use, the planners should be wondering what they are doing so wrong for ABP to change their decisions
@Pug wrote:
a tad extreme but there should definetely be an inspection into the decision where planning authorities grant permission for developments and bord pleanala then come along and refuse it outright or apply 20 conditions. ABP should be a last resort, not something for the planning authority to use, the planners should be wondering what they are doing so wrong for ABP to change their decisions
I agree that an inspection should take place in those cases where a planning authority grants permission and ABP refuses permission. Not, however, to punish ABP but to punish and correct the incompetence (and sometimes worse) that is rife among local authority planning departments in Ireland. Take the case of the application to wreck the interior of Cobh Cathedral. Permission was granted by Cobh Urban District Council on the basis of a report by a temporary planning officer who explicitly stated that he had no particular competence to judge the importance of a neo-gothic building of the importance of Cobh Cathedral; who, nonetheless, had no difficulty in dismissing the considered report of the Cork County Heritage Officer; and who had such a level of commitment to the public office he held that he did NOT even bother to look at let alone read alomst half the objections lodged with Cobh Urban District Council by the ordinary citizen who paid Euro 20 to express an opinion, Despite all this, no corrective action has been taken with Cobh Urban District Council and no disciplinary action has been taken against any of its officials, and not one person whose objections were consigned to a box and dumped somewhere in the Council Offices has received their Euro 20 back. At the risk of seeming pedantic, I can supply you with copies of all the relevant documentation into this sorrow state from the Midleton oral Hearing.
@Pug wrote:
ABP have pushed out the Werdna decision to ……………?
14th December
and it now apparently is for 233 units instead of 304
I feel that what An bord Pleannala are considering is a modified proposal with the highest element being 10 story, not the 17/19 story tower originally included. The following is from the Murry O’Laoire site, the architects.
MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT,
WATER STREET & LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD, CORKClient: Werdna Ltd.
Site area: 1.6217 hectares (4 acres)
Residential floor area: 26,000 sq.m.
Commercial floor area: 2,000 sq.m.
No. of Units: 233 Apartments
Business Centre
Creche
Shops/Cáfe
Contract value: €60 millionProposed development comprising a residential scheme consisting of 233 apartments and 2,000 sq.m. of commercial amenities including a business centre, shops, cafés, and a crèche. The development incorporates underground parking structures, private courtyards, riverside plaza with retained slip, and a quayside promenade along the full length of the riverside. The site is the amalgamation of the McMahon Timber Merchants and the Port of Cork site, and is part of the Docklands Development area. It forms part of an overall waterfront development zone that links back to Kent Railway Station by means of future redevelopment of Horgan’s Quay.
The apartments are of an innovative and contemporary design and are arranged in a primarily North South axis with raised landscaped courtyards in between. The layout enables all of the apartments to have views of the water and benefit from a southerly aspect. They range in area from 77 sq.m. to 115 sq.m. for the 2-bed apartments. The top two levels of the buildings consist of very generous two storey duplex apartments and these penthouses have even more panoramic views of the Lee and the city.
Two significant buildings, the Harbour Masters Main Store Office and the Fabrication Workshop are being refurbished, and are being redeveloped as a créche and a business centre, respectively.
An important element of the proposed development is the 10 storey landmark building on the Eastern part of the site. This part of the development is intended to act as an icon for the Cork docklands, acting as a gateway for the city from the Dublin and Waterford approaches.
The scheme provides significant public gain by the provision of a major and attractive urban plaza, an interesting and varied waterfront walkway and the conservation of important elements of Cork’s architectural and marine heritage including the Patent Slip, Fabrication Workshop building and the Harbour Offices.
The scale and the presence of the development is appropriate to the openness and scale of the waterfront, the context of the RH Hall and other major buildings on the Southside of the River and its setting as a gateway into the City and as a terminal point for development on the waterfront on the Northside of the Lee.
Water St is the 18th now…………………………….!
As for the standards of plannig, its clear that Council’s plough on irrespective of whats legally correct or not…..Planners and Inspectors in the Council or the Board are equally at fault in this respect and the influx of UK / foreign inspectors and fee per case inspectors is so bad that they just don’t know what the law really is.
Heard a good one, not sure its true (but it says a lot about planning in Ireland and how the system treats the public), about a guy who parked up a caravan in the car park in Sandymount in Dublin. The locals start complaining to the Council as its there for a bit and the Enforcement lads from the City Council drop out……..turns out the guy is a South African working for the Board as an Inspector that had come over from the UK and decided against living in a house to save costs………….moral of the story………as Orwell says, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others!
As for the Fee Per Case Inspectors, just when you thought life gets better when a guy retires from the Council, they reappear as Fee Per Case in the Board!
Seriously, time for a Planning Inspectorate to review the bull that goes on in some Council’s, the only way that these guys will act properly is if they think their crap will stick to their CV.
That anti high rise development (CSD) Muppet Councillor Jerry “I want to be a TD at any cost” Buttimer 😮 may have jumped the gun of his betters (i.e. the CSD Group) in objecting to the development of the former Esso Garage site in Bishopstown.
This development would consist of, demolition of all existing structures on site,(petrol pumps) construction of a new access onto Bishopstown Road, construction of car park access ramp, construction of a five storey mixed use building ( 11,052m2 gross floor area) over 3 basement levels of car parking (289 spaces), comprising, – 7 units of retail with optional additional use of restaurants, financial services and professional services, Medical and health services use in 7 units, and drop-in childcare facility at level 1, medical and health services use in subdividable units at level 2,3 and 4.
:rolleyes: Hopefully this dude will have a helicopter ready to transport his sorry ass to a medical facility if needed that he objects to in Wilton due to the traffic causing delays to him and his “nothing but a bungalow allowed sweetheart” Mary “full time bull’st*er” Shields of FF on their way to play bowels 7 days a week.
😮 We really do get what we deserve on the fools we vote for!!
Decision due date 9/1/07I have resisted posting this for quite sometime but I feel it necessary to do so.
I am rather angered and annoyed by the petty, immature and consistent insults thrown around by members of this website at Cork City Council management. The constant barrage of German references and Nazi-style comparisons has grown utterly tiresome. I refer to two users in particular. Your comments do not add anything constructive to the debate on Cork’s development and as far as I can see have little by the way of relation to architecture. It has gone beyond criticism to nothing but mere insult and I for one have had enough of it. If the 2 users wish to continue such childish references perhaps you could find a more suitable forum to do so. I believe boards.ie have the capacity to cater for this.
If you have nothing useful to contribute, please do not contribute at all.
There is as far as I can see an awful lot of big developments emerging in the city coming into the New Year. These developments will shape the face of Cork for many years to come. I would much rather these were discussed rather than cheapshots at management in Cork city. I of course believe there is much room for improvement in the council (much!) but this can be discussed in a mature and responsible manner.
Get this forum back on track otherwise you will continue to lose interested viewers, which have been dropping like flies as far as I can see since a certain poster left. I fear I will be among those viewers to depart.
I don’t know if anyone has been looking but the Hickeys store on Maylor Street is going to be redeveloped by John Kennedy as a retail and office scheme. Perhaps we should be discussing this rather than practising inaccurate German.
And here is my Christmas treat to you,
I got that picture of the McMahons site development at Water Street from the Murray O’Loaire website.
I am surprisingly pleased by the new Water Street proposal, and personally I do not feel it to have suffered as a result of its scaling down – it is a fine development in its own right. I would be inclined to favour the original proposal, with perhaps slight modifications to the tower element, but this is certainly not the mish-mash chopped up half assed version that I feared…
@James Furlong wrote:
I have resisted posting this for quite sometime but I feel it necessary to do so.
I am rather angered and annoyed by the petty, immature and consistent insults thrown around by members of this website at Cork City Council management. The constant barrage of German references and Nazi-style comparisons has grown utterly tiresome. I refer to two users in particular. Your comments do not add anything constructive to the debate on Cork’s development and as far as I can see have little by the way of relation to architecture. It has gone beyond criticism to nothing but mere insult and I for one have had enough of it. If the 2 users wish to continue such childish references perhaps you could find a more suitable forum to do so. I believe boards.ie have the capacity to cater for this.
If you have nothing useful to contribute, please do not contribute at all.
There is as far as I can see an awful lot of big developments emerging in the city coming into the New Year. These developments will shape the face of Cork for many years to come. I would much rather these were discussed rather than cheapshots at management in Cork city. I of course believe there is much room for improvement in the council (much!) but this can be discussed in a mature and responsible manner.
Get this forum back on track otherwise you will continue to lose interested viewers, which have been dropping like flies as far as I can see since a certain poster left. I fear I will be among those viewers to depart.
Patrick Street is the best street in the World
Joe Gavin is the best city manager in the World
We have the most informed local councilors in the World
We have the best build quality in the World
Nothing can ever go wrong for us now or in the future as we have the best Government in the World.
There you are now James you can relax for a while and let those without the rose tinted sunglasses (as it NEVER rains in Cork) point out the shortcomings of developments in Cork as well as the positive points.@James Furlong wrote:
I have resisted posting this for quite sometime but I feel it necessary to do so.
I am rather angered and annoyed by the petty, immature and consistent insults thrown around by members of this website at Cork City Council management. The constant barrage of German references and Nazi-style comparisons has grown utterly tiresome………….
James, I removed the german posts last week and here you are bringing them backup. It’s irrelevant now move on.
@James Furlong wrote:
Looks OK but I also prefer the original. True, it hasn’t suffered too much.
Progress on the elysian:
The picture of the Elysian/Eglinton St looks FANTASTIC. Finally, Cork will have two high towers to be proud of. Its particularly a nice touch with all the red cranes considering which part of de country its in, like. It gives us Dubs an inkling to the shape our (taller:p ) Heuston Gate and U2 Towers are going to take.
Well done my provincial countrymen and women!
by the way, before I forget, a very Merry Christmas to all my fellow Archiseekers and for a Happy 2007!
I’m looking forward to getting home for Xmas to see how our city is shaping up… I’m especially interested in taking a look at Blackpool to see what all the fuss is about…. got to say I miss Cork terribly 😀
Regarding the Elysian, I am confused as how many storys it will actually have. The lift staft constructed at present has floors 6 to 17 with number markings but there appears to be 7 floors under the one that is marked 6 and that is not including the two basement levels. From street level up I can count 19 story sections or if you give the ground floor double height, 18 storys. I also read that where the lift shaft ends there will be a 3 level Penthouse apartment built from that floor up. Is this an extra two stories on top of what we can now see, 20 or 21 storys in all?
@Radioactiveman wrote:
There has been a serious breach of planning regulations at a development on College Road.
“Cliffords” shop (well known to generations of students) as well as no.’s 1 and 2 Westbourne, College Road have (over the weekend, surprise, surprise) been reduced to rubble to make way for a new development on the site. Planning permission for such demolition has not been granted.
PP was recently conditionally granted (04/28769) for the demolition of a portion of the existing shop and the dwellings and to construct 4 no. terraced townhouses along Highfield Avenue. With regard to the properties 1 and 2 Westbourne it was intended to convert these into 4 no. apartments.
Permission had previously been refused by CCC and ABP for the development of 8 no. student apartments on 4 floors at 1-3 Westbourne, College Road.
The applications were made by a Ms. Ann Clifford.The Planning Department at CCC can be contacted as follows, if you feel this merits a complaint:
Telephone: + 353 21 4924321 / 4924324 / 4924325 / 4924720 / 4924722 / 4924723Fax: + 353 21 4924706
e-mail: planning@corkcity.ie
I pass this junction regularly on my way to work and I cannot believe how they are getting away with this. If they somehow got permission or get retention, it still beggers belief. The new structures have been built right out almost to the edge of the street, leaving a tiny strip of footpath. This is one of the busiest junctions in the area, and in morning and evening rush hours it is full of vehicular and pedestrian traffic going in all directions. If anything they should have been forced to move the boundary back from the street, not bring it closer. Now there won’t even be room for 2 people to pass on the footpath without stepping out into the traffic.
As clichéd as this sounds, it won’t be long before there’s an accident there and a pedestrian is knocked down.
While I was in the area I took a snap or two of the library extension:
@bosco wrote:
I pass this junction regularly on my way to work and I cannot believe how they are getting away with this. If they somehow got permission or get retention, it still beggers belief. The new structures have been built right out almost to the edge of the street, leaving a tiny strip of footpath. This is one of the busiest junctions in the area, and in morning and evening rush hours it is full of vehicular and pedestrian traffic going in all directions. If anything they should have been forced to move the boundary back from the street, not bring it closer. Now there won’t even be room for 2 people to pass on the footpath without stepping out into the traffic.
As clichéd as this sounds, it won’t be long before there’s an accident there and a pedestrian is knocked down. While I was in the area I took a snap or two of the library extension:
To her credit Cllr. Catherine Clancy of the Labour Party has raised this illegal development with the city manager and planners, her answer from the manager was, “we’ll look into it’, months later and nothing has been done.
CIE have reported broken bus mirrors to CCC on a number of occasions due to the scaffold poles erected on the ROAD.
😡 The footpath outside this monstrosity is not wide enough for a wheelchair or a buggy, I sincerely hope nobody gets injured or killed because of the lack of planning enforcement, but if CCC and the city manager end up getting sued if such occurs they can just pass on the costs to Joe Public by a few extra euro on the business rate.kite wrote:To her credit Cllr. Catherine Clancy of the Labour Party has raised this illegal development with the city manager and planners, her answer from the manager was, “]I wonder what we are looking into that taking such a long time, can we not just drive past, or are we just blind or otherwise impaired?
Ad re. nothing happening here is a term that might be mentioned: NON-FEASANCE
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/n066.htm
and this explains how to move forward:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance
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