developments in cork
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couple of things
presume some of you have seen the article about Cork Airport in the Indo
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1542848&issue_id=13545 (reg required)
seems like a farce to me!light rail to the airport – have you seen the gradient up to ORK? Over that distance? Not a chance I’m afraid without some very expensive tunnelling and viaducting.
I have a question though – what’s this I read in de Paper about the Carrigtwohill dev plan being varied to facilitate the amgen development. Anyone know why they couldn’t have used already zoned land?
Gradient depends on the route taken. A system that went out to Douglas, through Grange and up to the airport would not hit the direct gradients up the hill to the airport.
However, there are more practical destinations for light rail – Ballincollig, Mahon – that would attract more users, so the airport should be a longer term goal.
As mentioned, the bus to the airport need sorting out first. It needs to go at least every 15 to 20 minutes to be practical. It shouldn’t just head to the bus station, it should loop around the city centre, serving UCC and the railway station as well.
It should also be possible to get a bus from places other than the city centre. How about creating a 6A bus route and sending every third No 6 up to the airport. Douglas and Grange would get a service every half hour to the airport. A similar thing could be done for the number 9 from the Ballyphehane side (although that bus scarcely runs).
It’s important to remember that a large number of people who would use the airport bus service would be employees at the airport or the business park. A lot of those people live in the Grange area.
But then, come to think of it, when did Cork last get an increase in the bus fleet? Even the newest buses seem to have 2002 or 2003 plates on them.
the transport network in cork is a complete and utter disgrace. if its true that councillors sniggered at the a “light rail system” we should all despair – please let us stop electing these people. Coming from Carrigaline it is easier for me to get to work by NOT using the kinsale roundabout and drive through all the suburbs, there is no buses after 11.15pm which is an utter disgrace, the green route from grange is a joke as it restricted all the traffic coming from douglas causing MORE congestion, at grange cross they are just about to finish roadworks that will just about bring the traffic to the situation it was (i.e. crap) BEFORE they built a very large and pointless wall and they had to buy land to do it (i.e. waste of time and money) – A light rail is a NECESSITY from Cork to Ballincollig, Blackpool, Glanmire, Douglas/Carrigaline, Grange/Airport and at the four gateways to the city there should be a hub to link up to Intercity buses / possibly trains.
we are light years behind and with the cost of having to buy out a toll bridge in dublin which provides nothing to the rest of the country, we are likely to remain there. 😡
@Pug wrote:
the transport network in cork is a complete and utter disgrace. if its true that councillors sniggered at the a “light rail system” we should all despair – please let us stop electing these people. Coming from Carrigaline it is easier for me to get to work by NOT using the kinsale roundabout and drive through all the suburbs, there is no buses after 11.15pm which is an utter disgrace, the green route from grange is a joke as it restricted all the traffic coming from douglas causing MORE congestion, at grange cross they are just about to finish roadworks that will just about bring the traffic to the situation it was (i.e. crap) BEFORE they built a very large and pointless wall and they had to buy land to do it (i.e. waste of time and money) – A light rail is a NECESSITY from Cork to Ballincollig, Blackpool, Glanmire, Douglas/Carrigaline, Grange/Airport and at the four gateways to the city there should be a hub to link up to Intercity buses / possibly trains.
we are light years behind and with the cost of having to buy out a toll bridge in dublin which provides nothing to the rest of the country, we are likely to remain there. 😡
😮
All valid and true points. However we seem to be faced with a double edged sword in Cork in relation to a dedicated public transport system to the airport and outer “city†areas such as Carrigaline, Ballincollig ect. Councilors argue that we need to increase the city population to do away with the need to use cars or public transport to get to the heart of Cork (other than the 3rd world buses we already have), this head in the sand policy makes them afraid to commit to a proper Luas type system. It would also make them very unpopular with their buddys in the “Cork click†who have a vested interest in stopping making it easy to live in the County and commuting to Cork City.
Any public rep. local or national who would dare suggest that we deserve better is going to be in for a hard ride I suspect?Just a few questions about stuff going on at present in Cork.
1. The developments over near the train station. is it true that a small indoor stadium with a capacity or somehwere around 8,000 to 10,000 is to be built. Would be great if true, would cater for basketball, concerts and a future possible Ice Hockey franchise ?
2. What is to become of the area directly accross the river from the developments in lapps quay. you know the run down buildings accross the road from the Sextant Bar ?
3. Anyone know or guess whats going to happen to the Revenue’s offices on Sullivan’s quay when the Revenue eventually moves out ?
4. Whats that huge building being renoved at the start of Father Mathews’s quay going to become. Can’t find any source of info about it on the internet.
5. The development on the coal quay. I know it going to be a shopping complex but has any large retail tenant been found yet ?
I think that a light rail following on or about the route of the old Carrigaline railway should be a priority for cork county council.It would service Blackrock, Mahon, Rochestown, Passage West, Monkstown, Carrigline and maybe Ringaskiddy. Then onwards through the city centre to Ballincollig at the other end. And if it’s going through Ringaskiddy it may as well be actual rail considering the port authority is re-locating the port down there, but that would need a tunnel under the lee to connect it to the rail network. Regardless of that some sort of rail is needed for Carrigaline since about 87% of it’s folk go to work in a car – the highest rate in Ireland, and it’s on use building more roads. Carrigline is on it’s third relief road now I think.
Just a few questions about stuff going on at present in Cork.
1. The developments over near the train station. is it true that a small indoor stadium with a capacity or somehwere around 8,000 to 10,000 is to be built. Would be great if true, would cater for basketball, concerts and a future possible Ice Hockey franchise ?
2. What is to become of the area directly accross the river from the developments in lapps quay. you know the run down buildings accross the road from the Sextant Bar ?
3. Anyone know or guess whats going to happen to the Revenue’s offices on Sullivan’s quay when the Revenue eventually moves out ?
4. Whats that huge building being renoved at the start of Father Mathews’s quay going to become. Can’t find any source of info about it on the internet.
5. The development on the coal quay. I know it going to be a shopping complex but has any large retail tenant been found yet ?
3rd February 2006 04:43 PM1. as far as i know manor park homes only wants to build a small arena on this site capable of holding around 2-3000 which wont happen in my opinion as it is pointless really and would be of no greater benefit to the city.o’flynns have proposed to build an arena of that size alright in curaheen in exchange for the showgrounds site in the docklands but it remains to be seen what will come of that.and owen o’callaghan has said recently that he is now fully committed to his proposal at mahon point for an event centre.what we all want now is for one of the proposals to be picked and start construction as this is vital for cork to incourage investment and to capitalise on our european capital of culture status.
2.not sure really but there is rumours of ocp having bought this site i think.any development would have to be built around the chq buildings as they are protected structures but the yellow bonded wharehouses could be knocked.
3.dont know but im guessing that it will be a big enough development of retail/apartments.
4.as far as i know it is to become a food emporium.
5.not sure but i think i heard habitat and a few more(cant rem) were as good as confirmed.
Cheers for that.
Will be keeping an eye on the Water Street Development too. Looks stunning and hope it goes through.
I said it before and I’ll say it again…. Light rail is not the way in our city. Can you imagine them digging up our newly refurbished Patrick St. to put down a few tracks, espeically after all the trouble it caused in Dublin. Trolley Buses would be the best option… one tiny little overhead cable, smaller than that of the Luas and no fumes… even better no tracks, which means they can go anywhere in the city. They are dirt cheap to run and highly efficient. And we should be thankful for what we have, just think of the thousands that come to work every day by train from Cobh and the other east suburbs, which will also run all the way to Midleton, Carrigtohill etc. by 2008. Not to mention the amount of people from Mallow that commute to work by train. We are luckier than other Irish cities in that we actually have a suburban train linking up the satellite towns of Cork, which I’m sure places like Limerick and Galway would die for. I read more about the planned WaterBus service in the Echo the other day to run from Passage into the city. Sounds like a good idea.
See Page 7 for a picture previously posted of a Trolley Bus in use in the U.K.
BTW, anyone knows what the state of play with the Water Street developments ?
I was reading a post by Lexington earlier saying how the entire Port of Cork is going to be moved out to Ringaskiddy. Does this also include the full port out around Tivoli ? That area is enourmous and I can’t really see where all the money or will for a complete redevelopment of this area will come from.
once port and port related traffic is completely removed from the city centre quays, Tivoli will be the furthest port location upstream and according to the Port of Cork, a decreasingly attractive site for the container activities it currently facilitates – i think the long term intention is to relocate much of the tivoli shipping and container activities to the new Ringaskiddy development. i’ve always thought of tivoli as a huge opportunity for the city – after the docklands, it is the only large, central land resource within the city –
imagine the land value of tivoli in 5 years time – a huge, flat, south facing site only minutes from city centre, facing the river and with good downstream river views; good road connections in and out of the city and countryside; along a railway line which may have a 15 minute service to kent station – great potential for a station there -also a good site for servicing by passenger river ferry to city centre –
the city council should really think about tivoli – witihin the context of its value as a scarce land resource that could accommodate a large population.
Bunch – Tivoli is a big site, about 55ha. And it fulfills an important function now – there aren’t many places in the state where a (relatively) deepwater container port is co-located with a heavy rail link*. Also, there is a lot of space to be filled in the docklands. If it does get fully developed, it’ll take 10-15 years to finish that area. After that point, of course, then Tivoli begins to make perfect sense – however thats a long way away, and the economy could be in a very different place then. Its definitely one to be borne in mind, but I wouldn’t go planning on that basis just yet.
*Now, if you were to suggest a heavy rail link to Ringaskiddy and beyond, I’m all for it. Then you could start running Arrow style services Midleton/Carrigaline, Carrigaline/Mallow. But that is more than a little fanciful.
what’s this I read in de Paper about the Carrigtwohill dev plan being varied to facilitate the amgen development. Anyone know why they couldn’t have used already zoned land?
They were offered a number of IDA ‘developed’ sites in the area, already zoned for industry; they didn’t want them. They were either too small or didn’t have the transport links they wanted. They will have their own overpass and theres been mention of a railway siding also. The initial announcement was for in the region of 1,200 jobs. There has been mention since that the site will be able to accomodate much more than that (as in well over 2,000) if thing go well.
Amgen is an interesting one, there has been rumours about it for nearly 5 years – it went quiet there for a while, and there were stories that it was going to take the Wyeth route (ie go to Dublin). Seems to have ended well though.
That’s what I’m thinking too. No heavy rail link to Ringaskiddy.
Having a rail link to Carrigaline would be nice though.
Question is though, what route would it take. The old mahon line has been closed off and is now used as a public walkway. Really is a pity. A rail line going that way, could have easily served, parts of Blackrock, Mahon Point SC and parts of Rochestown. An oportunity lost.
The old mahon line was too narrow anyways – it could just about take a luas style tram setup IIRC.
I know very little about this kind of thing, but it strikes me that there are only two main options – one would be to bring a line south out of Ceantt, and cross the river in the city (probably in the Horgans Quay area itself). That option would be very expensive (would probably need to be elevated anyways) but would allow commuters direct access to the city centre. The other option would be to cross the river further east (at tivoli perhaps).
It would probably make more sense to forgo heavy rail south of the Lee if you had the money to spend post 2020, and build a Luas type system for commuter rail – if nothing else it could cross the lee on existing roadbridges. The containerised rail issue would probably have to be dealt with elsewhere – the NET Nitrate site would have been ideal.
Overall, I just hope that Cork goes for some form of integrated transport setup, unlike Dublin which is basically a mish mash of all sorts of ideas.
Lets for a start hope that the short term redevelopment of the Bus Station was just that, short term and something to save face for with the Capital of Culture status.
IMO, a move to put the Bus Station beside the train station is vital. Create one transport hub would be ideal. This would then intergrate the bus and rail network, and have the airport only needing to be linked to one transport depot.
Extra rail needs to be laid down for a number of commuter towns. I don’t know what the logistics are, but a rail link from Cork to Fermoy would be a start. This would also service Watergrasshill and Rathcormac.
Another rail route, going to Douglas, Carrigaline, Ringaskiddy and a branch off for the airport would also be a nice feature.
bunch wrote:once port and port related traffic is completely removed from the city centre quays, Tivoli will be the furthest port location upstream and according to the Port of Cork, a decreasingly attractive site for the container activities it currently facilitates – i think the long term intention is to relocate much of the tivoli shipping and container activities to the new Ringaskiddy development. i’ve always thought of tivoli as a huge opportunity for the city – after the docklands, it is the only large, central land resource within the city –imagine the land value of tivoli in 5 years time – a huge, flat, south facing site only minutes from city centre, facing the river and with good downstream river views]
😎 Tivoli would indeed be a prime area to be developed in conjunction with the Cork docklands.
Just one question, is Tivoli land under the control of Cork city or county?Any news on the proposed development for this site? http://flickr.com/photos/paulratigan/95524420/
I’m not too keen on Trolley Buses. They look like some sort of freakish bus/tram that some mad engineer came up with some time in a dark castle in Germany. Exactly what are the benefits of Trolley Buses oves normal buses?
And a rail line to fermoy would be a huge white elephant. There simply isin’t the population to justify it. There was a line that went from Mallow through Fermoy to Waterford but it was torn up thirty years ago. But it might be some way viable in thirty or forty years.
I don’t think Trolley Buses offer any great capacity increase compared to a normal bus, so presumably their advantage is that they are electrically powered and cut down on pollution. Even so, I’d like the first priority to be having enough buses to operate every 10 minutes on the main routes.
As for rail expansion. possibly the most practical expansion would be to construct a spur off the Cobh line into Glanmire, Riverstown, Sallybrook etc. Of course, if land had been set aside when all the new estates were being built, it would have helped. Instead, it would now have to find a way through all the houses and the pretty hilly geography around there.
If they’d thought about it before building them, some kind of cut and cover tram lines could have been provided on the Blackpool bypass and the South Link Road. Now, it would probably cause too many headaches during construction.
Was visiting Mahonpoint today and it struck me the car centric shopping complex (I wish the corporation had shown some foresight getting a rail line from the docklands through here and out to Carrigaline) though finished nicely inside with a good build quality, the biggest fault of its design is its failure to utilise its wonderful waterside location. Its a pity the centre wasn’t orientated to avail of what are essentially stunning views over the Atlantic Pond instead of providing its best window frontages facing a car park and traffic clogged road.
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