Developments in Cork

@jungle wrote:

Central Government will not fund it. It won’t pass any form of cost-benefit analysis. Private Enterprise will not fund it. It won’t be profitable.

Cost benifit analysis can be applied to anything as a reason NOT to do something.Not every cultural / social / investment has to make a monetary profit.As I am only living here 2.5 years the experience at meetings with Corks L.A.’s and developers compared to the Capital is astounding in it negativity and more reasons NOT to proceed with developments rather than encouragement from planners etc.Last week the Examiner published a free supplement of the docklands proposals which was merely City Quarter photographed from every available angle bar outer space.Horgans Quay is waiting 10 years for a planning application ?The Docklands was launched 6 years ago and the future planning delays will add years more even if it gets that far.

I fail to see how a cable car up Patrick’s Hill will encourage people to stay in the city for concerts, sports, events and shopping. Now, if you’d suggested spending the money on a multi-discipline sports stadium or events centre, that is more likely to see government, if not private funding.

Visit any small,medium or large city,in fact don’t bother just read the guide books – All these cities have a list of top ten places,attractions to visit – I would struggle to find ten in Cork city.I have visitors down from Dublin etc for weekend to visit the city and after The English Market,St.Finnbars,Lunch in the Farmgate,Stroll up Shandon (massive potential left neglected) A drink in the Long Valley or Bogega a good 3 -4 hours are taken care of quite well but thats it ! Love Cork but not a lot to see or do thats the impression as the tourism figurs don’t lie to the fact that the city is bypassed by the majority of visitors.Knock in the middle of nowhere is getting trans- Atlantic flights. How about a cost benifit analysis on the inccrease of tourism to the West of Ireland and the loss to the south ? How about move the Opera House & Crawford to the docklands – Brand new and fit for purpose,larger and capable of taking conventions and larger concerts.Unlikely as Limerick will get a 8,000 indoor arena thus making Corks proposed venue ( still at only idea stage) unviable.Killarney has a 4,500 venue and has international acts year round and the knock on economic benifit. Cork airport is a fantastic facility but they have to go cap in hand to Dublin,destinations are actually decreasing.

LUAS cost &#8364]Light Rail for Cork – not a hope I’d say.Where is the political will ? Look at the decrepid Bus & Rail stations getting nothing more than a glorified lick of paint. €32m per km.what a rip-off.Could be done a lot cheaper as per.mainland Europe.Where are the new buses ? Belching out diesel fumes and environmentally nasty.[/B]

It’s closed on Sunday, but that can be changed. Realistically, you’re not going to be able to compete with the Tate Modern or the Musee D’Orsay. Even the last places on your list don’t do this. What I suggested was giving a focus towards building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years. It’s an achievable ambition and would attract in a number of visitors from around Ireland if properly marketed.

Salford/Gateshead has great galleries and no one is suggesting competing with Paris just on a smaller scale.
Building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years ? Most of it is in storage in Dublin and dusted off for various exhibitions in wait for it…….. Dublin ! Again the Crawford is not fit for purpose.

Cork has plenty of attractions in limited range of the city. What the city needs to do is make sure it can be a base for people who want to see these while on a short break. People will be able to go to Blarney, Midleton or Cobh, but will base themselves in the city and use the city’s hotels and restaurants. Nobody is going to go on a weekend break to Midleton or Blarney. Cork doesn’t attract many. Put the whole lot into a single package and you have a product you can push.

That depends on whether you think that the city should cater to its inhabitants or tourists first.

It may sound crazy and it happens all over Europe but how about both ?

This is an argument about the cable-car, not all potential projects in Cork. Each one has to be assessed on its merits The money doesn’t come from nowhere, it has to be justified. Have a look at the history of Montreal in the 70s and 80s if you want to see a city that went for a number of grand projects and nearly destroyed itself in the process. There is a limited pot at Central Government level. What Cork needs to do is work out how to get its just share. Proposing projects that won’t get through CBA is not the way to do this.

The cable car is just kite flying and focussing on that is just stupid but its an idea wotrth debating none the less but the point is Cork needs ideas and fast.Only seriously getting to know the city in the past year or so and the overiding impression is lost opportunity with the river and quays,Patricks Quay,Georges Quay and Batchelors quay barely have footpaths up at the quay,no trees or seating ? Cars actually parked right up to the quay by the College of commerce.Would that happen in Amsterdam or Bruge ? Again massive potential neglected and the job of selling Cork just gets harder with the lack of renewal.Cork has this great maritime tradition – where is the museum dedicated to all of this heritage ? The great port of Cork buildings are falling down and the area used for parking yet more cars.Fantastic historical and architectural heritage ignored in Cork

Have a look at Clonakilty and Kinsale – smaller communities who get it mostly right and when the by-pass roads aroung the city are built in a few years why come here at all ? Cobh and Cork City need to pull their socks up.

@jungle wrote:

I think I’m beginning to see the beginnings of a compromise. I agree that the various councils don’t have enough ambition for Cork. You say that Light Rail isn’t a possibility and sadly the main reason that this is so is because there is nobody in the City or County Council who is pushing it. I suspect that the government might be relatively sympathetic if a strong proposal could be put in place.

As regards attractions in the city, I think that’s where my tourist pass idea has merit. Let people spend E15, but give them free use of public transport and reduced entry to attractions. Then, you start building up the number of tourists and other schemes become more viable. The biggest tragedy is that we aren’t making enough of what we have.

I agree with pass idea but I am just wondering how many tourists will be willing to use some of the manky buses currently on the road courtesy of Bus Eireann? Considerable investment is needed in the fleet!

@kite wrote:

😮
Stakeholders have gone over the heads of city management in recent weeks with approaches to Government members to have the development in the area fast tracked, City Hall are desperate to ensure that the planning of the docklands does not fall out of their control.
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Cant say I blame developers for trying to get a move on, its ridiculous – “When” the CPO is confirmed on the showgrounds? If they had done that a few years back when they heard the first mention of “docklands” and surprisngly discovered a large swathe of land occupied by someone else right in the middle of their plans.

Pity Kent Station couldnt be CPO’d as well so something might actually HAPPEN apart from a €4m lick of paint and a fire in the car park, The planners should refuse CIE/Manor Park planning application point blank on the grounds of premature application pending refurbishment of Kent Station – although then we would be left with a victorian barn for 50 years

ABP have given the nod for 72 apartments over 3/4 storeys at the disused site right next to the where the ferry drops you off at Cobh – interestingly the planners wanted a possible allowance for embarking/disembarking area for proposed medium term water-bus service

I’ve just heard that O’Callaghans have bought the Bodega. It’s meant to be closing next weekend!A great venue for Cork gone! Although who knows what’s in store for the site! Maybe he’s going to try and buy up that side of the Coal Quay for development seeing as the other side is going to be retail!

Just heard that he bought the Coal Quay too! Exciting times a head! Major retail developments coming on board hopefully. Let’s see what happens with the old Capitol Cinema next!

@ivuernis wrote:

I was hoping it would re-open relatively unscathed but if it’s O’Callaghan Properties then that does not look like the outcome. Wouldn’t the Bodega building be listed and any re-development be limited in scope and thus the building’s use in terms of what type of business could be located there?

Did O’Callaghan’s just buy the building and did the Bodega people keep the pub license?

Staff were given two weeks notice last week. It’s a right shame because whatever your opinion of the Bodega as a bar, it livened up the street day and night. It’s absence will be noticed when the street is finally revamped and there is nowhere to get a coffee/sandwich and sit outside.

Of course for the past year Jay Bourke was repeatedly quoted in the papers as saying the Bodega was not for sale, even as recently as three weeks ago when the Savoy was sold. Credit where it’s due though — Mr Bourke & co started the Bodega from scratch and thus helped provide a precedent for new establishments in the area.

I noticed speculation in one of the papers that O’Callaghan may be considering using the Bodega building for a swap with another business…. e.g. Meadows & Byrne who have a prime site on Academy Street right beside his new flagship development. Probably pure speculation…

@bosco wrote:

By the way, speaking of the docklands (earlier), what would ye think of something like this for Cork….

Not a whole lot…too blocky and plain/bland…tower isn’t so bad…

@rebel_city wrote:

Hey Bosco, is that tower image the Riverpoint building in Limerick by any chance??

It’s too tall. Riverpoint is only 13 storeys. There seem to be more on that building.

It reminds me of one of Ballymore’s planned buildings in London Docklands. It might be that?

As for the image… I agree that aside from the tower element, it’s a bit too bland. Also, the tower itself could be another 20% taller to give it a more slender appearance.

I hear TK Maxx are interested in opening a store in the city centre. They are in talks with the Owen O’Callaghan. Also, I’ve heard the Savoy was sold – I hope it’ll be retained as a music venue. Cork seems to be really lacking in quality venues / clubs….ie. a good choice. Still going mad the Bodega is going to converted into retail!:(

ABP have granted Paul Kenny’s modifications to his previously permitted development for works to be carried out to a protected structure on a site fronting St.Patricks Quay, Ship Street, Brian Boru Street.

Irish Nationwides appeal to extend banking hall for a change of use from retail to commercial, internal alterations and site works 33 and 34 St Patrick’s Street, Cork have also been greenlit by ABP despite their Inspectors recommendation of refusal.