thebig C

Hey all

Firstly, in relation to comments I made regarding people who are against any form of development, I wasn’t refering to any posters archiseek:)) But, I do feel that such people do exist.

Secondly, I would broadly agree with the need for a properly planned community sited at Cherrywood. However, that aint going to happen any time soon. And if we are to judge by history, any such development won’t have the necessary facilities but social and commercial for years to come. I am speaking as somebody who grew up in Tallaght. This was supposed to be one of the 3 “New towns” in the 1960s. Yet only in the 2000s did it aquire anything like the amenities of a town.

Therfore, allowing the development of a small “interim” centre at The Park would not be a bad idea. And, as has been pointed out, the immediate area is fairly well served by public transport.

Strangley, I had consistantly heard that Superquinn was linked to a potential development at Carrickmines. Indeed, they were previously linked to Leopardstown SC where Dunnes are now. I thought that Park Developments were part of the Consortium that bought Superquinn, but maybe I am mistaken?

I would also like to echo what other posters are saying about Dun Laoghaire. I have always found the Main St to be very drab. There are suprisingly few nice restaurants there and even fewer shops. That just leaves the countless fast food outlets and the hideous shopping centre. Speaking of which, I have heard that an impressive range of Victorian buildings were demolished to make way for this development. Pearson makes refence to in in his book “Between the Mountains and Sea” but I don’t thin there is a picture.

Furthermore, the failure to redevelop/improve the Harbour area during the boom when money was readily available will be regarded as a missed opportuinity. But I don’t want to open that can of worms!! I don’t think you can cast the failure of Dun Laoghaire as a town centre as an indigenous Irish vs International retailer issue. Its simply that a rot has set in for a long time.

C

Hutton, perhaps the “ecomentalist” tag was undeserved in your case. However, I do feel it actually applies to certain elements who are definately against any form of development. The current economic decline just plays into their hands and raises more excuses for objecting to any form of development.

I agree with you that many aspects of planning in Ireland stink to high heaven. I just don’t think this is one of them. Its perhaps natural, but regretable, that after the shenanigans of the past any Councillors involved in rezoning are now smeared.

In my opinion, whilst over development and corruption are obviously bad. The kind of extremist anti-rezoning, anti-highrise anti-everything policies that alot of Councilors have made a career of can be just as damaging!

The big push is to establish a retail/town core at Cherrywood, once the Luas is completed. However, given Liam Carrols financial situation, potential litigation regarding the site, question marks over Government ownership and the recession, nothing will be built there for a long time. In fact, despite Gormley pontificating about Cherrywood being appropriate as the designated growth centre, attempts in recent years to begin to develop this area in line with increased public transport have actually been stymed by none other then the Green Party and An Taisce. Both of whom strenuously objected to office developments on the grounds of height!! And were successful.

My point was. At 10,000sq/m its a very small development in a Dublin context. We are not talking about a potential Liffey Valley or Dundrum. If The Park ( such an imaginative name) is already a destination for certain types of retailing, why not also include a supermarket as an option. That will actually save in terms of car journeys.

Lastly, I am not a planning official. Nor am I employed in the property industry or a developer. Heaven forbid:)

C

Really really dreadful! I could go into more detail regarding its awfulness but I just can’t be bothered.

This whole process whereby developers prevaricate and Planning Authorities impose spurious “visual” conditions remind me of two previous blights on Dublins built fabric.

Firstly, The ILAC centre. The developers swept away a charming warren of streets only to get cold feet with the economy wobbling in the late 1970s. Their original urban scaled plans were dropped and we ended up with a single storey outer suburban strip mall plonked beside our capitals main street.

Secondly, after permitting and indeed participating in the wanton destruction of Georgian Dublin, the council insisted that all new buildings be in “Georgian style” pastiche crap! Short of a complete reconstruction a la what happened in Europe post WWII, they could have made the best of a bad situation and encouraged architects to experiment with modern architecture. But instead, architects were straight-jacketed to build only in redbrick, with uniform windows.

Both of these examples seem apt with the Carlton site. Nice to see we have learned from history!!

C

@gunter wrote:

‘The Timber Yard’ housing development on the Coombe Bypass.

We know O’D + T are above reproach and all that, got more awards than this has punch card windows, but, for the purposes of debate, is this a beautiful building, or an ugly building?

It got a chirpy enough review from Ali (the city architect) in a recent RIAI journal, but it strikes me as unnecessarily severe and slightly loaded with architectural intentions at the expense of streetscape or even space-making (allegedly there’s a ”public square” somewhere within!).

I think It’s a legacy of the Modern Movement that still today there’s almost an inverse relationship between pleasant design and respected architecture, a relationship that I suspect would give Adolf Loos cause for satisfaction. If we were to check out the record of architectural awards over the last while, is it not true that the more plain the architecture, the more decorated the architects?

This won’t please Devin . . . us talking about completed stuff again.

Haven’t been down that way in quite a while….since I started taking the Luas insted of the 56A:) But, I have to say that building is not bad at all. Alot better then what was there before, namely dereliction. I would take issue with what kind of quality of life the residents of the ground floor units will have though.

Interesting point about Loos, I do see the similarities…..even a little Louis Kahn esque. Didn’t Loos work more in concrete or at least render covered brick. Its the brick, I feel which takes the spare look away.

Do you have more pics of the area? Cork St is one of the few places where unimaginative speculator blocks actually improved the area.

C

🙂 @cgcsb wrote:

Windsor house is now the second tallest building on the island after Elysian, Cork. I notice that Belfast didn’t get as much benefit from the boom as cities in the Republic did. There’s still a large amount of surface car parks in the city centre and aside from the kremlin, Donegal street is empty and very poorly illuminated at night. Also alot of the street paving, pedestrian crossings and street lights are very 80’s in their design. Almost retro

🙂 I think Elysian is 71m to the roof. The Spire brings it to 81:)…..can we count those???

C

@Contraband wrote:

57 metres?
The Riverpoint Tower and the Clarion Hotel Tower in Limerick City are both taller than that! How is it that in the nation’s capital in one of the most expensive areas the only buildings that can be built fall behind buildings already built in Limerick?
I know tallness isn’t everything, but seriously at least one decent actual skyscraper would be nice.

I thought that was strange also. I recall seeing a recent acticle listing the height as approx62 metres. I.E, 14×4 metre office floors plus a 6 metre ground floor lobby.

Maybe the planners gave it a crew cut on the basis that nothing should stand taller then Liberty Hall. I am being facecious I know….but that mindset does exist!

C