The Park, Carrickmines

Why does every building proposed here have to be 16 storeys?

Lack of public transport here is irrelevant as the taller element is purely for design purposes rather than density.
On what grounds was this appealed – please don’t say height was the reason. This isn’t next to some delicate georgian masterpiece.
Relative height (relative to other parts of the same development) as a design element should be encouraged. Other wise we are heading for more North Docklands blandness. In the absence of new churces to punctuate the skyline, we need something to excite the eye!!!

barrack like formation….

Oh come on, the whole thing is boring and uninteresting…

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
Oh come on, the whole thing is boring and uninteresting…

I never said it was exciting, original or interesting. Just nice. Chill out, Paul.

Did they?

12.12: “I do however have some reservations about the bulk of the proposed tower and in particular of its proportions. As stated earlier it has a width of 30m and length of 50m and height of 67.5m -71m. As such even when viewed from the narrow side, it does not have the ¼ width/height ratio which makes a tall building elegant”

Condition:
“The footprint of the proposed tower block shall be reduced by reduction of its width and length by 10m each”

Reason: “in the interest of visual amenity”

I’d go along with this, proportionally, the building is too bulky to adequately distinguish itself from the rest of the scheme – a problem one can see in many similar schemes on the outskirts of Birmingham etc.
I find a tall building necessary for a scheme such as this (not that the one proposed is anything fantastic), but as the report points out:

“The employment zone buildings by necessity are bulky structures, with similar heights (13-17.5m), and are usually surrounded by large expanses of car parks. As a result they usually create rather monotonous and sometimes windswept urban-scapes, inhospitable as pedestrian environments. In this case location of bulk of the car parking underground, provision of pedestrian links and hard and soft landscaped open spaces, help improve the general layout, and the quality of the space”

“The tower building with a height of 67.5-71m and located within a relatively large open space and as a vista at the end of pedestrian routes would in my view provide a much needed relief from the monotony referred to above”

This caught my attention today

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/rebels-pass-d18-shops-rezone-plan-2136865.html

Rebels pass D18 shops rezone plan
By Maeve Galvin

Wednesday April 14 2010

COUNCILLORS have defied the Environment Minister in moving to rezone a shopping centre development in Carrickmines.

The move to extend the retail development at The Park, which is just off the M50, goes against the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council’s development plan, which was signed off on last Thursday.

Following a debate at last night’s council meeting, councillors passed the motion to vary the development plan and provide for a district centre by 15 votes to 13.

This flies in the face of Environment Minister John Gormley’s orders last month that directed the council not to rezone the Carrickmines land.

Several councillors spoke out against the move. Labour councillor Richard Humphreys, a barrister, told the chamber that the move “wasn’t a lawful motion”.

He said: “There is a legal obligation to comply with the minister’s regulation.

“In addition this would undermine the Cherrywood development and negatively impact on this council’s interests. I feel that it would be ludicrous and making a mockery of this council for us to pass this.”

Fine Gael’s Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward, John Bailey and Maria Bailey, and independent councillor Gearoid O’Keeffe put forward the motion, which aims to extend the retail land in Dublin 18 by 10,000sqm.

It also proposes to reduce the retail land at the Cherrywood development by the same amount.

Proposers of the motion said that they had been approached by developers who want to put in amenities such as a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant, which would create 800 jobs.

Councillor Jim O’Leary said that the move was in the interest of creating jobs for the county.

Council management now plans to seek legal advice and report back to the council on the issue.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0413/1224268227522.html

Council votes to rezone land at Carrickmines for retail
FIONA GARTLAND

COUNCILLORS IN south Dublin have voted to begin a variation to rezone land for retail development in Carrickmines despite a ministerial order directing them not to increase retail in the area.

Minister for the Environment John Gormley directed councillors on Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council not to rezone land at The Park, Carrickmines, off the M50, to increase its retail space when they created their county development plan last month.

Councillors complied with the Minister’s direction order, but yesterday, following a heated debate, they voted to effectively overturn it.

Fine Gael councillors Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward and John and Maria Bailey, along with Independent councillor Gearóid O’Keeffe, tabled the motion to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines by 10,000 sq m and simultaneously reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood, also off the M50, by 10,000 sq m.

Councillors had come under pressure from developers at both centres.

The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, had promised 800 jobs and a “guaranteed” anchor tenant, as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, had threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it had already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.

Speaking in defence of the motion, Cllr Tom Joyce said he had been contacted by a delegation of business people who said they would like to put in a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant at The Park.

“These people are ready to start operations immediately,” he said.

He believed the development was sustainable.

Cllr Jim O’Leary questioned why Mr Gormley “interfered” in the county development plan.

Cllr Barry Ward put on the record that he was “beholden to no one”. He was satisfied rezoning Carrickmines was the right thing to do.

However, Labour councillor Aidan Culhane said the motion was “utterly shocking and appalling”. It was a plan to build another shopping centre on the side of a motorway. “I find it staggering that councillors would do this . . . in Carrickmines of all places after all it’s been through in planning terms.”

His Labour colleague, Cllr Denis O’Callaghan, said he detected “a palpable smugness, arrogance and contempt” for the work carried out by the council in the last two years.

Cllr Richard Humphreys said there was a legal obligation to comply with the Minister’s order and increasing retail at Carrickmines would “emasculate” Cherrywood and damage the financial interests of the council, which owns some land at Cherrywood.

Cllr Victor Boyhan said whatever councillors did the Minister would invoke his powers under the legislation and was entitled to do so.

Councillors voted 15 to 13 to accept the motion.

County manager Owen Keegan said he would take legal advice about the decision, and return to councillors with a report on how they could proceed with the steps to vary the development plan.

I don’t know what to make of this situation!

I can’t understand why the council would be looking to change their own development plan, which is only a week old!

What is to be gained by zoning in Carrickmines (Google Map)? Is it not the antithesis of proper sustainable development. The Luas will run near by but the whole area has been designed for the motorcar. There’s a time and a place for retail parks, but I really don’t think Dublin needs any more of them right now!

Considering that in the past year DLR councillors have re-opened Dun Laoghaire main street to cars in a bid to help the struggling businesses there, the fact that they are now looking to zone new out-of-town retailing doesn’t make sense. And it’s not just Dun Laoghaire; Sandyford and Stillorgan are in an awful state commercially as well.

On top of all this, these councillors are trying to push development at Carrickmines at the cost of Cherrywood (Google Map), which apparently is a project that the council itself has an investment in.

I watched a little bit of the debate (video here) and I did not see anybody in favour of the Development Plan contravention speak about the urban design or sustainability merits of the proposal. The attitude seemed to be that we should zone it because there’s a few jobs in it.

I’d love to hear some opinions on this. Particularly on Cherrywood VS Carrickmines.

Hutton I completely agree with you.

Just on the behaviour of Fine Gael councillors, I really don’t hold any political allegiances but I’ve recently been noticing some really bad stuff going on.

Here is shocking stuff from one of the pro-Carrickmines zoners above, John Bailey (FG), and his daughter Maria Bailey (FG).

Donations had ‘no bearing’ on planning decision, says FG councillor
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2010/jan/24/donations-had-no-bearing-on-planning-decision-says/

John Bailey says planning objection ‘went missing’
Mark Hilliard
Janury 24, 2010

(Image added so you’ll know which faces not to vote for at next election!)

A FINE Gael councillor said that thousands of euro in donations from two companies behind a controversial development had no bearing on his failure to object to its go-ahead.

John Bailey told voters he had objected to An Bord Pleanála over the controversial redevelopment of the old Dun Laoghaire Golf Club, but the appeals body later confirmed it had received no such correspondence.

It has since been revealed that Bailey, who sits on Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown Council with his daughter Maria, received financial donations from both the developers in question and its estate agent ahead of his unsuccessful 2007 general election bid.

Bailey said he now accepted his objection had gone missing, but that when contacted by the Sunday Tribune, he re-sent the documents as an observation. The deadline has passed for objections. “These things can happen in the post but it’s most unusual,” he said.

Bailey also enclosed a new submission cheque but said his bank was still looking into whether or not the initial one to An Bord Pleanála had ever been cashed.

Cosgrave Developments and Hooke & McDonald, both of whom are behind the contentious development, gave Bailey donations of €2,500 each ahead of the general election.

However, he denied that this in any way compromised or affected his ability to object to the project.

“I am totally independent and totally impartial. I am there to represent people,” he said. “Everybody has to do fundraising for the elections. I have never shirked from whatever I have had to say. I am not bought or beholden to anybody.”

Bailey was unclear as to whether he had sought the donations directly or whether he had been approached by the companies.

“I can’t tell you off the top of my head but you do whatever you can during elections,” he said.

Bailey circulated leaflets to around 100 constituents, local to the golf course site, stating that he had filed the objection to An Bord Pleanála.

The objections would also have been also flawed in that Bailey made reference to two separate planning applications in the letter, which has been seen by the Sunday Tribune. Such a move is prohibited by An Bord Pleanála rules. “If I did that I made an error,” he previously conceded.

The plans for one of the two developments in question is still with the local authority and so an appeal to An Bord Pleanála was premature.

The development currently before the board relates to 605 residential units on the site off the Glenageary Road Upper and Eglinton Park, Dun Laoghaire. The application, still with the council, refers to a separate but related development at the old bowls club.

I have more examples but I don’t want to get too off topic.

Back to Carrickmines. I have been reading back through other articles over the past month about the rezoning. Here is one where Ciaran Cuffe gives some reasons why zoning Carrickmines is contrary to good planning.

Minister stresses importance of new town before vote on rezoning

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0412/1224268137650.html

FIONA GARTLAND
Monday, April 12, 2010

PROPOSALS TO develop a new town at Cherrywood, south Dublin, are to be brought to Government within weeks, the Minister for Sustainable Transport and Planning has said.

Green Party Minister Ciarán Cuffe said the proposals would ensure proper facilities would be developed side by side with homes and businesses at Cherrywood, a 361-hectare site between the M50 and the N11.

He made his announcement before a controversial rezoning motion comes before Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council today to reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood and increase it at Carrickmines, also off the M50.

If the motion, tabled by six councillors, is passed, it will initiate a variation of the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council Development Plan. It will also countermand an order by Minister for the Environment John Gormley not to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines.

Mr Cuffe said yesterday that developer-led zonings were running the danger of undermining millions of euros in infrastructure investment and the creation of thousands of new jobs over the next decade.

He said the Strategic Development Zone (SDZ), the planning framework that will create the new town at Cherrywood, would provide the bedrock for sustainable economic development and job-creation. It would also allow for fast-tracked planning.

Mr Cuffe said the new town, when fully developed over 10 years, would provide 12,500 homes and 18,000 jobs.

“The proper infrastructure – including a new Luas line with five stops in Cherrywood which will open later this year – has been put in place. It has the potential to create a vibrant, dynamic new town in south Dublin.”

He was concerned the SDZ would be undermined by the Carrickmines motion, on which councillors will vote today.

“I have deep concerns that, because of the employment situation in Ireland at present, councillors and politicians are falling victim to the old claim of jobs being promised as long as a zoning takes place,” he said.

“Trading a zoning for a promise is not good planning and is consistent with past practices of light-touch regulation and pure and simple cronyism that got our country into its present difficulties.”

Councillors have also come under pressure from the developers of both Carrickmines and Cherrywood, who wrote to them on Friday.

The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, has promised 800 jobs, a “guaranteed” anchor tenant as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, has threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it has already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.

At this moment, all I can say is thank god we have a Green as Minister for Environment to stop these braindeads from destroying south county Dublin.

Just who are our councillors working in the interests of? I would like to see if any of the councillors listed by Hutton have received donations from Park Developments. As I pointed out, John Bailey has previous in that kind of thing.