Fearg
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@Praxiteles wrote:
Can someone explain why in Ireland we have an insistence on having fixed ambos in the sanctuary when the praenotanda of the Lectionary specifically require them to be located in the nave – which is where they have been located from earliest times?
they look rubbish as well, don’t think I’ve ever seen one that “works”.. and as for those president’s chairs..
St Columba’s Church, Drung, Inishowen Peninsula, Diocese of Derry
Another example of a nice country church, wrecked in the early 70s. An attempt was made last year to restore to something more akin its original state. Sadly, the new fittings show little or no understanding of anything and are of poor quality in general, yet another missed opportunity:
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[ATTACH]10175[/ATTACH]@Praxiteles wrote:
The fire at Windsor castle in 1992:
The restored St George’s Hall was an improvement on the original IMHO..
Before Fire:
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[ATTACH]10151[/ATTACH]@Praxiteles wrote:
The restoration to its original condition was completed in 1988:
The North Transept is the only original part of the minster’s roof still in place. The quire was burnt out in 1829 by a madman and an accidental fire left the Nave and SW tower as a shell in 1840.
As far as I can tell, the cross on top of the South Transept gable was not replaced in the restoration (the original was heavily calcified in the fire).
@apelles wrote:
latest Poll Results: Longford Cathedral should be
rebuilt faithfully as to its pre-Vatican II design 43.42%, rebuilt as before the fire 15.79%, rebuilt in a modern style 18.42%, left as a ruin 22.37%
Voters: 76.Has there been any word on the fate of the altar and pulpit which were in the crypt.. ?
Also – what were the statues in the niches around the cathedral made of? I have a suspicion that the only 2 to survive were on the back sanctuary wall. Since the marble altars and panelling have held up to a certain extent, I can only assume that the statues either fell, or were made with a material that basically shattered or burnt in the heat.
@Chris_533976 wrote:
It cost €140 million to rebuild the Frauenkirche, this country has nowhere near that amount of money to spend on a cathedral rebuild.
Fair enough, but Longford is clearly not anywhere near as big a job.. For a start there is much more of the building left, secondly they don’t need to build that massive dome and they really took their time with the Frauenkirche, something like 12 years, I don’t think the congregation could use the gym at the college for that sort of timescale! Time is money after all..
I’d say it’s more of a York Minster than a Frauenkirche (I think the Minster cost about 4 million in the 80s)
@Praxiteles wrote:
Do not even think about it. The destruction of this church was a black comedy of errors even to the extent that the idiot in charge could not find the keys to let in the fire brigade when it arrived.
Longford deserves better that this. Start thinking in terms of the Frauendom in Dresden.
I think the only positive outcome here, was the relocation and restoration of an historic Norman & Beard organ from a redundant church in London..
http://www.stephenbicknell.org/3.6.14.php
http://www.ohta.org.au/confs/Sydney/STPATRICKSCath.html
I remember reading about this incident back when it happened, the international press had hyped it up to suggest this was the cathedral for the diocese of Sydney, which of course is actually St Mary’s cathedral.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Longford Cathedral
The photographs posted by James1852 are extremely valuable for all sorts of reasons – inclusing illusrating the kind of fiddling that has gone on with this building.
Here is a photograph of the main door as it was in 2006. Note that someone has inserted a fussy piece of stained glass in the upper part of the door panels. Compare this piece of rubbish with the dignified timber panels behind the group of artists taken on the steps of teh Cathedral in 1925. If it has not been burned, then in the forthcoming restoration, this piece of nonsense will have to go.
From photos posted on various forums the glass in question survived the fire..
According to rte, the forensic examination has shown no suspicious circumstances as cause of the fire:
@gunter wrote:
If you can leave something worthwhile behind, then that’s not really ‘nothing’, I s’pose.
. . . . .though fluffy clouds and nice looking angels would be my first choice
As long as what you leave behind don’t get burnt down or get messed up by some future fad that is! 😉
@justolongford wrote:
this picture was in the longford leader , its looking from the rear of the cathedral, sorry about the quality , its a scan.
It looks even worse from that distance than in the ground level photos.. at least in those you can see bits and pieces that could be salvaged. Some good news though.. Apparently the stained glass in the transepts did hold up and can be fully restored.
@justolongford wrote:
more
Great photos – those rads behind the angels have to go though, no matter what happens!
Do you have any “behind the scenes” pics e.g of the crypt, inside the bell tower etc?
@justolongford wrote:
the statue is in the crypt, as far as i know , it is of the sacred heart,hopfully it escaped damage, little else did sadly.
In the photos, most of the floor seems to be gone – is the space which has now been opened up the crypt proper, or is that located at a deeper level? The bishop said in one report that the crypt was intact..
Looking at that set of photos, most of the statuary in the aisles seems to be gone, almost as if it were vaporised.. absolutely devastating. Only 2 left seem to be those on the back wall (incidentally, the one on the left is St Mel). In the center it looks as though we have the frame which supported the tapestry, what about that central niche – was the statue removed when the tapestry went up?
The undercroft of the cathedral appears quite comparmentalised, hopefully the section where the altar and pulpit were located has remained intact, does anyone know which section they ended up in?
And as for the west end, not a trace of the organ, except for the frame of the 1982 lower gallery..
@apelles wrote:
The design on the sanctuary floor mosaic is quite similar to that on the sanctuary floor in Cobh Cathedral. Was it designed by Ashlin? As far as I’m aware Ashlin only done external works on the Portico but I’ll try & find out more about that.
Rumors abound that the limestone columns are beyond repair & are apparently not needed to support a new roof..Is this even possible? http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63747235#post63747235
I’m sure its possible, but the impact would be terrible – something like what happened to the parish church in Dingle, except on a much larger scale. This must not happen! whatever else they do to St Mels, the restoration of the pillars and ceiling are the most essential elements of any restoration.
Can anyone suggest a decent architect the Bishop could work with?
If anything were to be changed.. possibly, the apse could be redesigned to include windows, always thought the place would look so much better if that were the case. Apparently, the original design was a compromise due to the bishop’s ambitious plans for a grandiose residence behind the apse (which was never used for anything other than choir rooms and the museum). In some ways that block at the east end may have been the cathedral’s achille’s heel. Think about any other Irish cathedral, if the sacristy went on fire, the structure is usually so separate from the main body of the church, that the complete devastation we have witnessed in Longford would probably be much less likely..
@apelles wrote:
It would be incredible to envisage for one moment that St. Mel’s Cathedral will be restored to anything like its previous incarnation or former glory..that somehow from the ashes a building as venerable will again arise..I’m not saying its not possible but we have to look at the track record here.
I pray they make good use of & re-instate the original high altar and pulpit which were relegated to the crypt during the Ray Carroll makeover. Though some pressure may have to be applied to achieve this.
This pic is doing the rounds on some chat rooms…You can see how the limestone column to the right has deteriorated from the intense heat of the fire.
Calcification is the official term I believe.. picture seems to be taken though a window in N transept, you can see the sanctuary steps and remains of the ray carroll altar just to the right of the leftmost pillar, with the ambo to the far left. So that means the S transept is straight ahead, if the HC window had blown out, I’d expect to see some daylight in the distance..
Looks like some of the marble panelling has survived on the far walls..
@notjim wrote:
With it has gone some fantastic stain glass.
I’m holding out a little hope that the south transept window may have survived.. there are loads of videos on youtube and from what I’ve seen, that window appears to be one of the few left intact (of course, it could be the outer storm glazing that is apparent).
@apelles wrote:
True but to honest tho..I think the’re better off in Enniscorthy cathedral than in a land fill in Derry.
I think those angels were originally at each corner of the central throne of the reredos – 2 of them are still in Derry to hide the join where the truncated remains of the throne were stuck together (in place of the foliage pattern where the original panels meet). Have to say, they made a fairly crap job in cobbling the bits and pieces together in both locations..
20 years on the 17th of this month since the disaster in Derry was dedicated…
Enniscorthy – the Derry connection
Whilst googling Enniscorthy cathedral earlier today, I came across a thread which mentioned some discarded paneling from the 1989 reordering at Derry Cathedral was incorporated into the new tabernacle table at Enniscorthy.. I think the following photos provide some evidence that this is true.
Whats left at Derry:
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And the table at Enniscorthy – the angels, proportions of the carved panels and the capitals look like a match. Glad that these have survived, but they should still be in Derry!
@Praxiteles wrote:
Is St. Patrick’s Dungannon a listed building?
St Patricks is grade B+ listed
http://www.ni-environment.gov.uk/built/buildview?id=1663&js=true
