a boyle
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@Judgeetox wrote:
The Dublin airport looks to have an interesting expansion going on.
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
haha , very funny!!! (you will understand when you get here. ) 😀 😀 😀 😀We had to object to a development that intruded on our property, It was not the same circumstances and i am not an expert in planning. But i will share my experience.
We many of our objections were simply ridiculed ( and i mean ridiculed ). On had to do with traffic, and the planning applicant paid to get a cheap “traffic analyst” to give an opinion. Once the planners saw that he had a few letters after his name , they would hear no more of what we had to say.
I believe that you need to get “expert help” in this. I would not listen to the developer , he has no interest in you! His time is money and he would rather you rolled over and took it ……
If you are near “ameneties” or if there is an area plan seeking to improve the level of housing , then it is probably foolish to fight against it outright, play to draw instead of win !
But make sure you lash in as many objections as possible !
On final and crucial thing: get it in soon, very soon! what can happen is that you object to the height say , the applicant then provides more information, BUT get this you are not told that the aplicant has responded to your objections. In the council area we were dealing with you had to check every day to see if something new was on the file. So the sooner you object the more you will be able to make sure your opinion is heard!
Make sure you take what i have said with a pinch of salt and find someone who really knows their stuff ( oh and don’t get ripped off ! ) good luck
loopline loopline.
I heard that wood quay was not actually ‘wrecked’, due to a court and government order. instead piles were driven around and through the site to hold up the building.It is possible, but i am not sure that there would be much left if concrete was poured into the cavity underneath the building. Maybe someone of an older vintage would know.
You just can’t get enough abuse can you ?
1 excavation: the foundations for the tracks , would have to cope with hundreds of tonnes. (Compare foundation for a ten story appartment block to a bungalow and you get the picture).
2.utilities diversion , this requires digging up everything up, leaving you to start from scratch , not with an old rail line, that has just had it’s tracks taken up.
3. In the same way as a winding road in the wicklow hills will occasionally have gravel spread over it’s length as surfacing , while a motorway has purpose designed tarmacadam to a high spec in order to cope with lorries. The same thing applies to the metals tracks and everything below : two grades , one cheaper , one not so cheap.
4.The electric system. : why did they need change the dart electric system using your logic ? (the dart upgrade cost 170 million). I will tell you why. if there are metros comming every 90 seconds at peak time, and each metro weight 10 to 20 times a tram , then you have to be able to deliver a whole lot more electricity safely. So you wouldn’t suggest that the wiring in a home was sufficient for a factory , would you ?.
5. Bridges: deciding you need a bridge that can cope with a lorry instead of pedestrians is NOT simply changing the specs.
6. between sandyford and the canal there are 2 at grade junctions. They will simply be closed. total cost : no euros!
7. a large part of additional expense went into blasting the rock cutting between stillorgan and ballaly stops, so that it could accomodate the much wider metro.as someone with an ego the size of robert maxwell , i know how hard it is to be wrong, but it is ok thomond.honestly
@Thomond Park wrote:
… If one of my clients sent me out to acquire a building and I had a budget for £40m and I came back having spent £83m I would rightly be replaced by someone who could do the job. …
In relation to the costs above the costs for excavation, relaying utilities and electricity had to be done anyway bearing in mind that phase 1 Luas was not intended to be horse drawn.
Again you have missed my point , so one final time. All the original costings were for tram grade. The final product is a combination of tram and metro grade.Your example should read: if one of my clients gave me a budet for 40 million and i came back and suggested that in the long run it might be better to spend 83 million.
With respect the to the point of having to divert utilities , you have completely shot through your previous suggestions of the “vitorian line” and only the taney bridge requiring a change of spec. By excavating the track , it meant there were no old foundations on which to build. No foundations, no track, no bridges. The only thing that was left was a right of way. You are wrong to complain that because the line previously coped with trains it was an easy job.
another thing to consider is that while other countries might appear to have much cheaper tram systems , the cost of diverting utilities is borne by each company involved , or diversion doesn’t occur. In ireland diversions are payed by the rpa. (economically it makes no difference , but on paper it does). This additional cost is also part of the metro price tag.
While it would be nice to be an expert in costing , it is simply not possible to do it to an accuracy that would satisfy you ! For example , the jubilee undeground ended up costing 425 million euros per kilometre due to tunnelling difficulties. The madrid extension that every paper talks about cost 50. the rpa are hoping that it will come in around 80 million per kilometre.They simply can’t and won’t be able to come up with a more accurate figure.
Thomond Park wrote:Yes,the green line had the new Taney bridge re-specified and little else on the route as they inherited a Victorian track bed built to accomodate two braod gauge lines.
I like your use of 3/4/5bn it aptly describes just how clear it is that figures are just being plucked from the air]
Yes but no. The foundations had to be fully dug up so to allow for diversion of telephone,gas,electricity pipes. Following that the foundation had to be redone.The foundations are just a start with reinforced track to lay down.Third the electric system is very expensive. The new electric system put in for the DART cost 170 million, and the dart doesn’t come near to the level of electricity required for a fully fledged metro. So it is easy to see how 400 could be spent on the green line. To say that only the taney bridge required redoing is plain wrong, everything on the route had to be upgraded. Trams fully loaded weigh 30/40 tonnes. Metros can weigh hundreds of tonnes. The RPA’s forward thinking is something that we will be very very grateful for when we can progressively move to a metro on the green line with a minimum of fuss.
As per plucking figures out of the sky , I have to agree with you ! Experienve has shown that all large engineering projects like tunnels and metros and the like always over run. The reality is that it’s not possible to cost say the port tunnel until it has been done, as every tunnel is completely different and has to be designed from scratch. That is not to say that great waste doesn’t occur but with respect to the luas the money has been well spent. Mr park if you don’t accept this fine let’s stop this and agree to disagree.
I am surprised that noone has taken the bait. The review published on monday gives some fascinating insights into the future shape of dublin.
Perhaps i was too focussed in how i started this thread. And so as a prod towards some discussion, i will add a few ideas.
Dublin bus are proposing to effectively take over the entire city centre (excepting access): East & North Stephen’s Green, Dawson, Nassau, Pearse, Westmorland, & O’Connell street. Parnell Square, and the quays north and south on both sides of O’Connellstreet. Westland Row ,Pearse street and D’Olier is left for luas Bx and Dame street for the lucan luas.
Dublin bus want to ‘leave’ outside the m50 to private operators. They want focus on cross city routes that start and finish in the vicinty of the M50. This would tend to confirm the observation of David McWilliams that dublin will slide towards an american city: pink in the suburbs, and black/yellow/white in the city.
As for efficiency , it is clear from the numbers that for all the luas hoopla , it is the buses that have provided improvements to traffic. speeds on the N11 have increased over the last few years.
The RPA seem to be tremendously over ambitious with their metro scheme, as the census figures clearly show that people are moving east not north. This would suggest that the western metro/luas should be built first.
The county of meath is not mentioned , nothwithstanding that the M3 will a green light to housing ,housing ,housing. So one can only assume that they are being left to drive.
The review makes no suggestion of any effort to work with a developer/council in order to build a fully ‘integrated’ high density village/town with schools/shops etc. Furthermore all the current tram projects will be fully/over subscribed when finally built.So for now public transport is following development. This points to no improvement in the end product for families.
It’s not all bad : the report clearly, but politely points out that the city is now so big and thinly spread that dublin bus can’t keep extending it’s services away from the city. Finally the poor planning is making one state agency look for changes !
Other things are horrendous : the charts have been rejigged to give a positive impression, but there is no mistaking that the company’s cost have ballooned. Too many single decker and mini buses have been replaced with double decker, resulting in higher costs. This is euphamistically described as passengers growth not keeping up with capacity, as opposed to a purchasing cock up.
Nothwithstanding that the company is in disagreement with the government over private competition (and as a result hasn’t got any new buses recently ), there are now more staff per buses than before. The review brazenly states that it expects the cost of running a service to rise as it receive more buses. Micheal O’Leary would vomit at this!
me ,a smattering of PDLL with a sprinkling of ctesiphon.
Long term, if you want rural , meath aint the county to be in. the motorway means enevitably that dublin is coming to meath and meath is going , well it is going and that is it!
Expanding and trying not to be so negative,you shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for all ireland’s problems. Do do some sums first.House prices are over valued ( how much is not clear ) , so the long term is that they have to fall (in real terms or through inflation). And think carefully , your children might love having a big garden to play in , but it is not much fun if there are no children around to play with.Driving to the shop with a baby just to buy some milk isn’t great crack the tenth time round.Think hard don’t take some stranger’s advice on the internet that you have never met and couldn’t really care less what happens to you!
I don’t know, but i think it is worth pointing out that most of the tall buildings proposed in the dundrum/sandyford/stillorgan triangle have bee kiboshed.
@Thomond Park wrote:
Any news on this proposed project or has it vanished completely?
Given that aer lingus is currently and for the forseeable future going to be trimming the fat ( with or without privatisation. i am NOT getting into an arguement over that as there are valid points on both sides.)
I could not see aer lingus needing a new H.Q. It is nice though.
@The Denouncer wrote:
Looks good from a distance, that’s about it.
There’s no need to capitulate ! if you don’t like it, you don’t like it !
It’s not all about height. New York is ugly, plain at best, while Chicago is a monument to beautiful architecture. Dublin could easily be over whelmed by a number of skyscrapers. The current approach of treading carfully is to be lauded in city with insufficient plannings control/funding and power.
Consider private enterprise built the first metro in world with the pearse to dun Laoighre route. Ireland built the most dense network of rail lines in the world also. Dublin had 20 trams lines. The companies in dublin were even able to start upgrading the dublin network to use electricity.True they switched to buses, but at that time there were no cars. Fourty years later in the seventies, traffic management started in dublin with the reorganisation of stephen’s green. Would the bus companies have realised then that the buses days were up back then and started a changeover to trams again (which had advanced).
Sure the luas is working, in fact it’s jammed according to the bus review. Trying to build a network of 7/8 trams lines is going to take 30/40 years. Would private enterprises do a better, cheaper, faster more competent job ?
Has ‘public’ transport worked ? If no is it because it was starved of money ? Would a huge increase in funding mean a huge increase in service ? If yes , could it do better , how ?
The question is loaded but i would love to hear people views.
Dublin Metro North Open Days:
* Tuesday, March 28th 2006:
o Ballymun Civic Centre, Main Street, Ballymun, Dublin 11
* Thursday, March 30th 2006:
o Fingal County Hall, Main Street, Swords, County Dublin
* Monday, April 3rd 2006:
o Dublin City Council Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8
* Wednesday, April 5th 2006:
o Regency Hotel, Swords Road, Dublin 9
* Friday, April 7th 2006:
o Finglas Civic Office, Mellowes Road, Finglas, Dublin 11
* Monday, April 10th 2006:
o Airport Great Southern Hotel, Dublin AirportNo mention of times. ref: rpa.ie
@PDLL wrote:
Interesting generalisation. One is tempted to make a snide remark referring to planning permission, unregulated and obtrusive internally-illuminated erections and box fascia in the South William Street area, but perhaps decency best forbids. 🙂
Oh please do, work is boring , i could do with a laugh !
@anto wrote:
??? Yeah the sex shops add a real touch of class to the street!:confused:
No they don’t add class to the street and that is what is nice about the street. Like a district in copenhagen, the justapositions of sex shops with uber trendy spots like spy and the cosmetic shop blue ariu (i think) is just cool! It adds a little sauciness of which i thouroughly approve. ( without being anything like a red light district) . We ALL like to play dress up on occasion.
I am having trouble locating the address for the eurocycle shop. it appears to be 57 south william street , am i right ?
