ctesiphon
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Technically, it was with the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act 1999, which was incorporated in its entirety into the 2000 Act.
There are mixed views on the wholesale transfer of Listed Buildings onto the Record of Protected Structures, centering on the fact that the PS designation is far more onerous than was the previous listing, i.e. it’s not just the facades any more. This is why Declarations were introduced- to indicate to owners which bits of their PSs are of merit (architectural, historic, archaeological, artistic, cultural, social, scientific and/or technical). (Remembered the categories off the top of my head- wahey! 😎 )John Gore-Grimes wrote an interesting article in the Irish Planning and Environmental Law Journal on the delights and tribulations (his phrase) of PS designation.
See IPELJ, Vol. 10, No. 2, Summer 2003.I always thought the previous grading was a bit of a mess too, what with phrases like ‘It is an objective of the Council to seek the preservation…etc.’ and others. What planning needs is not vague subjective language open to interpretation- remember the Meath Co. Co. vs. An Taisce (or perhaps it was M. Smith- don’t recall) case re. the necessity of a local authority to ‘have regard to’ the Regional Planning Guidelines? MCC argued that they had had regard to the RPGs in drawing up their County Dev Plan but decided that they weren’t compatible with their (ahem) vision for the county.
And so it goes…
Fergus-
See my post on this thread: https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4080
Once a building becomes a Protected Structure, the owner can apply to the Local Authority for a Declaration stating what works to the PS require Planning Permission and what words do not require PP, including works to the interior. This last is an important point.
The Declaration is the de facto grading, i.e. sometimes only a facade is protected, sometimes the wallpaper and the Victorian chain pull on the jacks is protected.
(Declarations are my thesis subject.)As far as I know, Preservation Orders are used only very rarely, though I don’t know why. I remember hearing that they are something of a last resort and that they tend to be reserved for structures in imminent danger that are of National significance, but don’t quote me.
Hope this helps.
@Radioactiveman wrote:
Work away, we’re very good like that in cork 🙂
Aah- that famous Leeside modesty. 🙂
@garethace wrote:
Of course, what really puts the tin hat on it all now, is having two splendid new Santiago Calatrava bridges, which are both aesthetically ‘awesome’,… can I use that word? … yeah, aweeesssooomee. Druuull…. but they also manage to be pedestrian friendly, functional and appropriate.
You can use that word, if I can disagree with it. 🙂
As objects, I’d be a fan of the bridges, but as sympathetic elements of the urban fabric I think they fall very far short.
And pedestrian friendly? I’ve slipped on the Joyce and nearly been clipped by a bus at the south crossing/junction (though that’s not exclusively the fault of the bridge).From day one, they’ve struck me as ’emblems of the contemporary metropolis’- “we must have them, even if we’ve no real need for them, and even if structurally/aesthetically(/functionally?) they run counter to all the other bridges along the Liffey. We’re in the big league now and we must show it!”
I just don’t think Calatrava was the man for the job- and I’d be a big fan of most of his work.
@Devin wrote:
Cork is great for bow-fronts & curving buildings.
They are practically non-existent in Dublin – unless you count that one that curves from Lincoln Place into Merrion St., beside the Ullyses chemist.There’s also that one at the top of Dawson Street- used to be the sewing shop, now the tourist whiskey shop (and if that ain’t a metaphor for our culture…), with those elegant shallow bows above ground floor level.
And the one opposite Enfo on Andrew’s Street- just a curving terrace, but worth mentioning as they are so unusual in the Dublin context, as you say.
Again, sorry everyone for Dublining up a Cork thread- but it arises from our jealousy of your felicitous sweeps. 🙂
@lexington wrote:
🙂 Thankfully the building’s proprietors enlisted Shane Construction to given the fading glory of this structure a new lease on life. The fabulous traditional brickwork has been revealed once again, the details of the design uncovered, the history reborn – unfortunately the image below fails to focus the individual brickwork and so on, however, I will try to get a better quality image in the future. The building reflects the refurbishment of nearby Fenn’s Quay – among Ireland’s oldest original terraced houses still in full show. It begs questions as to what lies beneath the unsightly paint skins of other surrounding structures?
I’m wondering, did this building benefit from sponsored shroud advertising, or was the work carried out without such input, i.e. by an enlightened client? (Ref. thread below.)
@tjomeara wrote:
Ctesiphon
The NIAH are only publishing structures on the web that are considered to be of ‘Regional’ importance and above. Search for Waterford under the ‘town’ in the Waterford Survey on the NIAH website. I think around 900 sites were rated as being of ‘Regional’ importance and above in and around Waterford City.
TJ-
Thanks for that clarification- though I’d be of the opinion that in order to decide what buildings are Regional, it is necessary to survey everything first, not just the ones that appear to be Regional on a cursory inspection. But then again, I’d be of the old school where the NIAH methodology is concerned, and we all know how much got published in the (ahem) formative years… :rolleyes:
@tjomeara wrote:
Waterford City was published as part of the Waterford County Survey in late 2003/early 2004
Cork City has just been published and can be found at http://www.buildingsofireland.ieTJ-
Was the full Waterford City survey published, or was it just the old NIAH chestnut of a ‘representative sample’? If memory serves, there were roughly 2000 records in the original survey, which is more than the full county survey now contains.
Cheers.
There’s a bit about it on this other thread:
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=35905#post35905
First up, they’re now called ‘Protected Structures’, not listed buildings, as of 2000.
The Local Authority ‘Record of Protected Structures’ comprises buildings/structures that were listed buildings prior to 2000 (the year of the Planning and Development Act) and automatically became Protected Structures. Local Authorities also have discretion to add or delete structures to the RPS (this is a Reserved Function, i.e. done by Councillors rather than planners). ‘Ministerial recommendation’ is shorthand for a number of methods, the main one of which is the work done by the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage- a division of the Dept of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government- in which they carry out County Surveys and send the results to the Local Authority via the Minister’s Office. So to say it’s the job of the Minister is slightly misleading- s/he usually just rubber stamps the work of the professional/technical arm of the Department.See http://www.environ.ie (DEHGL site), http://www.buildingsofireland.ie (NIAH site), any of the Local Authority sites, or perhaps http://www.heritagecouncil.ie too.
Re purchase- it depends on personal preference and to an extent financial circumstances.
Pros- character, history, sustainability (transport minimisation, no new building, etc.) and many more.
Cons- higher maintenance costs (see http://www.scs.ie), lack of flexibility, restrictions on alterations, etc.Best of luck.
I see in the black and white picture that the fascia to the right of no. 35, just above the cloth swatches, seems to display the base of a shamrock (just in shot). Perhaps Carroll’s have had a foothold in the street longer than any of us realised? :p
Devin (The Cork folks mighn’t like this diversion, but I’ll be brief)-
Is the bow-fronted building in Waterford the one a few doors down from the Tower Hotel, near the splendid redbrick Georgian terrace? If so, it’s been one of my favourite buildings in the whole country since we started going on family holidays in Co. Waterford 25 years ago. I did notice, though, that it’s been comprehensively refurbished in the last couple of years. At least it’ll finally be occupied, after too long slowly crumbling. Did it retain its windows?
(Waterford City, NIAH, mid- to late 1990s, unpublished- do I detect a pattern?)
Phil-
There are three copies of the Rothery shops book in UCD libraries (just checked the catalogue)- two in Richview (one Reserve Collection), one in the mail library, none currently on loan. I once saw a copy at a book sale in the Mason’s Hall on Molesworth Street, maybe 5 years ago, for 50 pounds of old money. Part of me still regrets not buying it.
Some of the illustrations were included in his ‘Field guide to the Buildings of Ireland’, which is still in print, and may have been in his ‘Everyday buildings of Ireland’ (both also in Richview).The last Vitrolite shop I came across was in Inchicore village, beside the disused cinema, but it had a site notice in the window. And that was 8/9 months ago. I got pictures, but I haven’t had a chance (had the courage?) to revisit to see if it’s still there. It crossed my mind to try to acquire it before/during ‘dismantling’, but it’s not like it’d fit in the top of the wardrobe. 🙂
Aye- sorry if I bummed anyone out, but I find it hard to think of a place without thinking of the stories that the place has generated. And I do really think he just wanted to talk, so we sat a while.
To get the thread back on track (as maybe only the derailer can), are those green shopfronts the same as the black ones still seen in some towns? Vitrolite, I think they are, with the chrome trim. Another little-appreciated feature of the Irish town- too modern for the dyed-in-the-wool heritage-conservationist, too tatty and reminiscent of a poorer period of Irish history for the progressives.
A few words:
The redbrick has been a carpark entrance for years, and seems to be surviving against the odds. Which isn’t to say it will remain forever. It gets a little worse every time I visit. 🙁
Graham- the slate-hung bow fronted building is one of three (I think)- one of my favourite groups in the whole country. Kinsale has even more (though not bow-fronted).
What I’ve always liked about Cork is that it feels like a city that people actually live in. Not that it doesn’t have large suburbs, but there’s a vibrancy about the city centre that’s lacking from so much of Dublin. And hilly areas such as Sunday’s Well give the city so much of its character- some of the best city walks in Ireland are to be had in Cork.
However, I don’t think much of Patrick Street (are only locals allowed to call it Pana?)- too fussy and too many material contrasts, though obviously an improvement on whatwent before.
Devin- you say you hope a ‘proper audit’ of the docks buildings is done. The NIAH (where I used to work) carried out a full survey of the city centre in the late 1990s, but with characteristic Government dynamism I don’t think it was ever published. It did, however, get into the hands of the City council, so perhaps all is not lost?Also, on the subject of the churches, when I was recording for that Cork survey I ducked into the French Church for a look at the interior, where I met a homeless guy who was feeling very down, so much so that he asked me to write his suicide note as he couldn’t write. At first I refused, but he said that if I didn’t then he’d kill himself and nobody would know why (the reason, sadly but perhaps not surprisingly, was institutional abuse as a child), so I consented. I don’t think he went through with it (I got the feeling he really just wanted someone to listen) but it has stayed with me to this day.
It made architectural recording seem very insignificant.jimg-
Are you thinking of Denny Street? Can’t think what else it might be.
There are also some nice Edwardian houses on the outskirts and a smattering of Victorian three-bay two-storey ones, but generally it wouldn’t excite me as a town. Sorry Tralee. 😮Highly likely.
I’ve heard it said that the village of Dunhill, about 6 miles west of Tramore (Waterford), suffers more than most. Can’t think why. Is it the association with a certain classy brand of cigarettes?The dual carriageway sign isn’t one of the standard pointing signs- it’s a large landscape rectangle, white with black borders and text, with the words stacked one above the other. What always amused me about it is that almost everyone knows that the n11 dual carriageway is ahead, and for those that don’t they can see it out their windscreens. Therefore it seems to speak of a time when the concept of a dual carriageway must have been very novel.
Good lord- never thought I’d be getting sentimental about roads. 😮
This brings to mind a sign on the N11 (southbound), behind the stand in Donnybrook rugby ground and hidden in the trees, that says ‘Dual Carriageway Ahead’. Makes me think not of ‘driving’ but of ‘motoring’. 🙂
One day it will disappear (whatever about protecting 1950s traffic lights, tatty old signs might be a step too far), yet I can’t bring myself to (ahem) place it in my care. 🙁
