New building beside City Hall

From The Irish Times, November 29, 2001

What’s the roundy yoke on top there? From that pic it looks like it’ll have a kind of temporary appearance to it, stranded on its own in the middle and not even approaching the pavement.

Seeing that image you do have to ask the question – what’s the point? It’s not as if it reinstates the streetline or restores any type of cohesiveness to the area. The gable-end of the Roomkeepers could easily be improved if necessary.

So you loose much of a garden that could be made extra-specially good if the will was there, and further detach the Castle entrance from the city, placing it at the end of a tunnel.
What do we get in return?

The park was never one that would have tempted me to linger for a moment, no matter how jaded I was. It was just a stop off place for the aimless drunks in the area. From the many artists impressions I’ve seen, I think the building is a good design and will work well.

But what about the Olympia canopy, is that gone for good?, if so that’s a far greater loss to the street than a shoddy park.

On a similar topic, I’d also like to see a building erected on the vacant area beside the Castle Inn pub on Christchurch. I know that they have spruced up the area considerable in the past year, but It’s little more than a bike parking space and a building of quality design could do a lot for Christchurch, even compensating in some way for the Jury’s yellow pack hotel.

@Graham Hickey wrote:

Seeing that image you do have to ask the question – what’s the point? It’s not as if it reinstates the streetline.

The Nov ’01 Irish Times article (by Robert O’Byrne) explains about the aborted road-widening scheme & quick-fix job for the ’88 Millenium and then says:

….Finally, in the coming year the local authority plans to address this problematic space in a more satisfactory fashion. The most obvious solution would be to restore the former building line along both Dame and Palace Streets but the city architect Jim Barrett insists that this should not occur because it would obscure the eastern elevation of the recently restored City Hall and, facing it across the western side of Palace Street, the side of the neo-Romanesque AIB bank running towards the gates of Dublin Castle.

Of course, the response to this argument is that both views were never meant to be seen from any distance, since each was originally designed when the adjacent streets were still intact and narrow.

Barrett in turn argues that, having been exposed, what becomes apparent is that “as they now stand, the two elevations warrant greater status than they were originally given”. He believes that the “fairly strong” corner of the AIB building ought not to be concealed and that the corporation “primarily wants to retain the views” opened up by the park.

In any case, such a discussion has to remain academic because it transpires that when turned into a park in 1988, the site was legally designated as a public space, meaning that the corporation cannot now cover it with new structures….

I agree broadly here, but I don’t go along 100%, because City Hall is a 2-sided building – there is still a slight uneasiness about having that (comparitively) bald east elevation so exposed. But I agree totally about the AIB – it definitely fits the bill as a piece of prominent corner architecture, even though it wasn’t to begin with.

The terrace of buildings that were there before on the park site were on the same alignment as the façade of City Hall so that, by the time they reached Palace Street, they were jutting very far out into the street. I’ve seen an old picture looking west along Dame Street from near where the Central Bank is now, and the building on the corner appeared to sit in the middle of the street!

This terrace had all the characteristics of the Wide Streets Commissioners (brick 4-storey over shop), but if it was by them, what they did here was an oxymoron, keeping a very narrow street width and making Dame Street uneven.

@Graham Hickey wrote:

It is difficult to see what the new building’s impact will be…..I like the main elevation but overall it doesn’t look very solid or permanent.

The building is difficult to judge, true, because that montage is a bit primitive and not very well executed (not that good montages are always reliable!) – the building is bright, but the rest of Dame Street seems dark and forbidding and full of traffic. My own feeling is it seems ok in form….but you can’t get an idea of the materials & texture. There is maybe too much going on with the gantries ‘n’ things…but it could be just the dodgy montage…

I suppose the half dome on top is supposed to pick up on the City Hall dome…hard to know if that will work or look silly ‘til it’s done (afterthought: I think it might be good!).

It’s also difficult to imagine how the plaza itself will work before it’s done…as JackHack was saying the old park never tempted you to linger. Will the public feel uncomfortable & exposed in the new plaza and move on quickly? Or will it be a great success, a focal point on Dame Street? The new building will create a new, smaller enclosure between it and City Hall. Will the corners and back of the space be wino territory only? Or will it be a nice new civic space?

Yeah, given that work has just begun on the site & public interest will be restimulated, the council should have some images put in the media etc. showing the scheme, with changes if any.

That’s what I’d be wary about too – that it’ll look like something of a folly or novelty building that’ll look dated too quickly.

I think one of the problems of the current park is that most of it is raised up – no one likes to have to clamber up onto a platform and be on display for everyone passing by. If the park was on the same level of the street it would become instantly more accessible and appealing.

I agree with with Jim Barrett about the street line, but in that piece he still doesn’t explain why a building is needed at all.
It’s a pity the Georgians here were demolished – the narrowness of the street would have offered a great contrast to the wider parts further up – narrow pokey streets are something of a postmodern rage now too 🙂

And in colour:

Despite them being gone – I don’t think this park is a hole that needs to be filled, unlike other sites in the city. The two signature buildings of City Hall and AIB flank the space in a manner almost as if intended. Yes the facade of City Hall isn’t anything spectacular but is more than pleasant and apt for enclosing the park in the way it does.
I’m just not sure that a building is needed here at all – a really nice park could serve the hoards of tourists accessing the Castle as well as citizens, and also act as a pleasant entrance to it. Indeed Palace St could perhaps be integrated into it too with paving and planting.

Interesting map – you can appreciate from it too how the proposed square for here would have worked. Still would have been a bit of a squeeze though.

What is the proposed use for the ground floor of the new building? Hopefully a public one being in such a civic space. If it has such a public use, combined with the plaza and park it could be quite successful, Just hope it turns out alright – it’ll certainly be a departure from the type of development Dame St has been used to over the years – Central Bank aside which is strikingly similar in nature…

Rather than start a new thread, I’ll throw this in here.
I was wondering does anyone know why scaffolding has been put up on City Hall.
It was up last Thursday when I passed it. Considering its beautiful restoration wasn’t that long ago, it seems a little strange.

Though one could equally argue that City Hall is also sticking out 🙂

Suppose another possibility for this site could have been to develop a decent public facade for the Castle, terminating the Parliament St vista instead of City Hall being squeezed in in front by the merchants with those houses alongside, which would also result in a wider street and the creation of a decent corner/plaza space at what was effectively the meeting point of the new and old cities.

Largely I suppose; considering the Wide Streets Commission were dead set against City Hall they certainly had some sort of grander scheme in mind.
Never seen the plans for Bedford though, and I don’t know if the WSC supported this plan for the site which presumably was a residential square, or whether it was the Chapel Royal proposal that they wanted executed.

As for the City Hall scaffolding, considering it’s only on one facade at present it’s likely that the windows are just being painted (probably not black enough for the CC considering the recent trend :))
Hopefully they’ll replace any blown bulbs in the portico while they’re at it.