Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter

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    • #711379
      FXR
      Participant

      I posted this video as part of a series (see below) based on observations of cyclists in Dublin. The comments I think speak for themselves. Despite the fact I made no attempt to promote the video or even post it on any relevant websites it shot up over 5,000 views within 3 days.

      Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

      With the government aiming to have over 160,000 people cycling to work daily by 2020 is this situation out of control.

      Dublin Cyclists Wild Frontier.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

    • #816969
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The problems is Dublin is designed for cars. Lots of one way systems, complex sets of traffic lights and ridiculous rules regarding parking in many areas.

      Dublin City Council is light years behind most northern European cities in how it treats cyclists.

      For instance I frequently have to travel from Stephen’s Green east to Adelaide Road. If I am to take the car route it essentially triples the journey and forces me have to cross fours lanes of traffic on the north green and a further three lanes on Dawson Street. It is scary at the best of times but since most cars are speeding on the Green it is suicide. So I prefer to cycle on the wide and most empty footpaths on the Green and then along the Luas tracks or wide footpaths on harcourt st.

      The current road traffic system forces normally law abiding people to break the law, because it is frequently safer and far more practical to do so. Again look at the poor state of most cycle lanes, they are terribly dangerous and force cyclists to use footpaths and smooth roads including oneway systems.

      Bicycles are different to cars, they should naturally have flexibility more akin to pedestrians. Many of the oneway streets in the city centre have ample space to allow contra-flow for bicycle lanes. At the same time many footpaths have space for cyclists.

      Off course they should not be absolved from obligations such as use of lights and bells, and keeping a careful eye on pedestrians, but I think you are all stick and no carrot!

    • #816970
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      do you not realise that the Rules of the Road don’t apply to cyclists?
      My favourites are the ones who totally ignore traffic lights and the others who think that cycle lanes are bi-directional.

    • #816971
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yeah we might have declare the entire area a crime scene and close all the roads for a few months…
      I don’t know if that bridge can take the weight of all those cyclestests.

    • #816972
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Fxr you will love this check out 0:57

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvJWaHCLSos

    • #816973
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Service charge wrote:

      The problems is Dublin is designed for cars. Lots of one way systems, complex sets of traffic lights and ridiculous rules regarding parking in many areas.

      Dublin City Council is light years behind most northern European cities in how it treats cyclists.

      For instance I frequently have to travel from Stephen’s Green east to Adelaide Road. If I am to take the car route it essentially triples the journey and forces me have to cross fours lanes of traffic on the north green and a further three lanes on Dawson Street. It is scary at the best of times but since most cars are speeding on the Green it is suicide. So I prefer to cycle on the wide and most empty footpaths on the Green and then along the Luas tracks or wide footpaths on harcourt st.

      The current road traffic system forces normally law abiding people to break the law, because it is frequently safer and far more practical to do so. Again look at the poor state of most cycle lanes, they are terribly dangerous and force cyclists to use footpaths and smooth roads including oneway systems.

      Bicycles are different to cars, they should naturally have flexibility more akin to pedestrians. Many of the oneway streets in the city centre have ample space to allow contra-flow for bicycle lanes. At the same time many footpaths have space for cyclists.

      Off course they should not be absolved from obligations such as use of lights and bells, and keeping a careful eye on pedestrians, but I think you are all stick and no carrot!

      umm – Adelaide road is about a 2 minute cycle from Stephen’s Green East via Earlsfort terrace??. All in the right direction. On a road.

      when driving in dublin I often find it much more practical to go the wrong way down the road and not bother to stop for traffic lights. Cyclists are a menace.

    • #816974
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      You cant go straight onto Earlfort Terrace from SSG East. The road (primarily for buses) takes you onto Lwr Leeson Street. You can of course get off the bike and use the crossings.

    • #816975
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      sorry, but you can.

      There are 2 bus stops outside the shops on earsfort terrace served by buses going straight on from the green. The 15A is one of them

    • #816976
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All wrong wearnicehats.

      There is no travelling south on SSG east, unless you are a bus. No other traffic is allowed use the southward lane, no room for bicycles as the lane is so narrow.

      The quickest legal route is still around the green, up dawson st, across to molesworth st, down kildare street, back on to the green, down merrion row, on to baggot st, past itzwilliam sq, across leeson st, along hatch st to arrive.

      So my original point sticks, and you just proved how ignorant most people are of the city streets and the treatment of cyclists.

    • #816977
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Sorry for not replying sooner but I’m not getting any notifications from this site.

      The overall theme here is not just cyclists rather the bigger picture is that the City of Dublin is suffering an almost total absence of management.

      Dublin is a small city and it’s not possible to adequately accommodate all those who use the streets to the point that each interest is fully catered for. Dublin was not designed from a blank sheet in it’s present size: it evolved almost haphazardly.

      In the case of cyclists there is no enforcement of any laws or any attempt at management of the thousands of cyclists. The more wheelchair friendly the city has become the more cyclists have populated pedestrian areas. A cyclists using the footpath, breaking red lights etc can individually, case by case, seem innocuous. The problem is the complete freedom cyclists have to do whatever they like is acting as an incubator for the kind of behaviour in the slideshow below.

      Dublin Cyclists Wild Frontier.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

      PS: In terms of pedestrian streets, bridges and walkways it’s very often forgotten that pedestrians include the visually impaired, small children and wheelchair users.

    • #816978
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      why cyclists use the footpath?

    • #816979
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Service charge wrote:

      All wrong wearnicehats.

      There is no travelling south on SSG east, unless you are a bus. No other traffic is allowed use the southward lane, no room for bicycles as the lane is so narrow.

      The quickest legal route is still around the green, up dawson st, across to molesworth st, down kildare street, back on to the green, down merrion row, on to baggot st, past itzwilliam sq, across leeson st, along hatch st to arrive.

      So my original point sticks, and you just proved how ignorant most people are of the city streets and the treatment of cyclists.

      ahhhh yes – the old contrafloe bus lane exclusion. Good job I don’t cycle otherwise I’d be in it along with all the other cyclists and, indeed, the 2wheeler Garda I saw from the bus yesterday

      why don’t you just walk with your bicycle up to Earlsfort terrace? or dismount and cross at the pedestrian crossing at the NE corner of the green onto Merrion Row? Laziness?

      Why do you think you deserve to get somewhere easier or quicker than someone in a car and, because you don’t like it, feel like you the normal laws don’t apply?

    • #816980
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FXR: I see where you are coming from to an extent but the fact that you don’t concede any ground means you are probably just an anti-bike nazi?

      Bicycles are the least resourced transport in the city, yet offer the most benefits for the economy, city and ppl. There is ample opportunity to develop the city to accommodate bicycles but our city father ignore them. Take a trip to amsterdam or copenhagen. City centres where you aren’t drowned out by traffic noise on every single street nor do you find yourself seeing cars parked on both sides of their finest buildings and along every single street.

      Look at films of Dublin in the 1950s, thousands of happy cyclists.

      For instance bicycle parking (another pet hate of yours): why are there so few places specifically designated for bicycle parking in Dublin? Why couldn’t the city offer a similar scheme to Dublin bikes by offering secure, monitored and dry bike sheds and sell the advertising space on the side? Alternatively a small charge for daily secure parking of bicycles might pay for itself. I can’t think of one such space currently in Dublin. Yet there are thousands of car and bus spaces and god knows how much derelict and empty land.

      I note in the Sunday Times it was mentioned that bicycles don’t pay road tax: neither do pedestrians or Dublin Bus. And road tax doesn’t cover the roads budget every year, nor does it pay for all the road crashes and injuries using the fire, garda and health services. Central taxation pays for most of the road space not motor tax. Not to mention the fact that bicycles don’t tear up the road or cause pot holes.

    • #816981
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      As for you wearnicehats:

      Why do you think you deserve to get somewhere easier or quicker than someone in a car and, because you don’t like it, feel like you the normal laws don’t apply?

      I don’t deserve too, and I’m not asking too. I am simply asking that the city council consider cyclists as legitimate road users. So where they propose one way systems that they include contra-flow bike lanes where space permits. Or where there is ample space for pedestrians a bike lane be provided, for instance the east side of SSG would easily fit a bike lane, as would south king street. Or bridges include cycle lanes: both O’Casey Bridge and the Millenium Bridge could easily accommodate a cycle lane, otherwise cyclists are forced onto the quays, which are blatantly not a place for bikes.

      As for the law: there is virtually no enforcement of traffic law in Dublin. I don’t see why I should have to risk my life juking it out with speeding vehicles when I can safely share space with pedestrians (provided of course that I cycle carefully and slowly). I can’t think of a single serious injury caused by a bike hitting a pedestrian in dublin, sadly I can’t say the same for bikes/pedestrians and cars.

      As I said before, bikes are far closer to pedestrians than cars and should be given flexibility closer to pedestrians than cars.

      Both you and FXR are ignoring the fact that cars kill pedestrians and cyclists very regularly in this city.

    • #816982
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Service this is the situation: it’s a fact that the majority of cyclists in Dublin are breaking every law possible and showing no regard for pedestrians or other road users. In the meantime lobby groups and the monkey-see-monkey-do types who populate politics in Ireland are spending more and more taxpayers money with no real critical examination of the situation.

      For example in the video Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter bicycles can be seen locked to almost every available object in the street.

      A common response to that is that there are not enough bicycle stands. There probably aren’t. Where there are bicycle stands the authorities don’t seem to have thought too deeply about the locations. For example there is a bicycle stand at the top of Grafton St. This encourages law breaking and dangerous behaviour. The bicycle stand can only be reached legally from Stephens Green North. Cyclists all day ever day can be seen cycling on the pedestrianised Grafton St, Sth King St and coming the wrong way from the College of Surgeons to reach the bicycle stand. When bicycle stands are placed it ought to be considered how cyclists are going to reach them.

      But is the problem also caused by the fact that cyclists in Dublin will just go where they like by any route they like regardless? There is a new secure bicycle stand not far from Stephens Green. Dublin City Council and it’s bicycle mandarins have cost the taxpayer more money by providing free (to cyclists) a section of Drury Street car park. Cyclists are not using it to any great extent while the streets around it have bicycles locked to everything and anything.

      See here: http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee327/Falconer1st/Drury%20St/.

    • #816983
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Perhaps the gardai should take the NYPD approach…..

    • #816984
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @pico wrote:

      Perhaps the gardai should take the NYPD approach…..
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

      The cyclists in the video tried to explain to the police officer that cycling in the bicycle lane is not always the safest option.

      Why then does the cycling lobby demand I pay for more and more cycle lanes costing up to 1.6 million per kilometre? The amount of money being spent needs to be questioned at least. In all the campaigning for more rights and facilities for cyclists there is never a mention of cyclists contributing a single cent to the economy.

    • #816985
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      there’s no doubt that the lycra crowd have to put their money where their mouths are.

      The dublin cycling campaign charges €20 for membership. make it €100 and put the other €80 towards cycle lanes.

      There are myriad of cycling clubs around the country – attach a similar levy.

      Increase the tariff for the dublin bike scheme by €1 for all trips over 30 minutes.

      a concerted Garda campaign to fine every cyclist breaking the road laws €50 on the spot or their bike is confiscated and another €50 to get it back- all proceeds towards cycle lanes

      a government levy on all bicycles and associated cycling equipment

      of course this allows thousands of daily cyclists to slip through the net but hey – they’re all so environmentally aware they’ll be only too happy to make a voluntary donation in return for a suitable dayglo vest

    • #816986
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      After looking at the situation I’m inclined to thing the so called “cycling lobby” are not so much concerned with cycling as with committee-ism. If cycling in certain is not a problem then the law should reflect. Certain offences should be “decriminalised”. Instead of loading the Gardai with another addition to the long list of society’s ills why not have bicycle wardens?$

      The fines could be lowered to reflect the fact an offence with a bicycle is less serious on the scale. The wardens could issue on the spot fines of €40 for cycling on pedestrian areas and have the power to remove bikes from street furniture.

    • #816987
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Well you have both conveniently skipped over my points re tax.

      Motor vehicle users contribute only a fraction of what it costs to build and maintain roads, provide Garda, fire and health services at accidents and general policing of traffic. Why should general taxation have to pay for this? Well because we all use the road network in some fashion.

      Pedestrians similarly don’t pay a cent to use footpaths, crossings etc.

      So why do you deem cyclists as different?

      As for contributing to the economy cyclists actually do: every person that cycles to work reduces congestion, reduces wear and tear on road, and keeps fitter so is less of a burden on the health service.

      If all the city’s cyclists were to drive the city would be gridlocked. The more we encourage cycling in this city the more the city has to gain.

      As for every single cyclist breaking the law: a similar accusation can be leveled at car drivers (breaking lights, speeding, driving in cycle lanes etc) and pedestrians (jaywalking).

      All in all traffic policing in Dublin is a shambles.

    • #816988
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Service charge wrote:

      Well you have both conveniently skipped over my points re tax.

      Motor vehicle users contribute only a fraction of what it costs to build and maintain roads, provide Garda, fire and health services at accidents and general policing of traffic. Why should general taxation have to pay for this? Well because we all use the road network in some fashion.

      Pedestrians similarly don’t pay a cent to use footpaths, crossings etc.

      So why do you deem cyclists as different?

      As for contributing to the economy cyclists actually do: every person that cycles to work reduces congestion, reduces wear and tear on road, and keeps fitter so is less of a burden on the health service.

      If all the city’s cyclists were to drive the city would be gridlocked. The more we encourage cycling in this city the more the city has to gain.

      As for every single cyclist breaking the law: a similar accusation can be leveled at car drivers (breaking lights, speeding, driving in cycle lanes etc) and pedestrians (jaywalking).

      All in all traffic policing in Dublin is a shambles.

      Under the Road Traffic Act a cyclist is classed as traffic. A pedestrian is not. An individual motorists pays 10’s of thousands of euro’s directly as a result of that mode of transport.

      Cycling requires additional facilities not already in existence for which they will not pay one red cent. Those facilities are going to cost millions of my money. It’s going to come out of the pockets of people who can’t afford childminders or healthcare. There is no magic pot of gold that this bankrupt country has in storage from which ad hoc committee’s can line up to make funding requests.

      Cyclists lobby groups are demanding changes to the law and expensive facilities specifically for cyclists. There is evidence to suggest that cyclists may use those facilities only when and if they feel like it and otherwise ignore them.

      Motorists do break the law. Thousands of them get fined. As regards cyclists breaking the law it’s neither here nor there. Breaking the law is not a competition.

      It’s a fact: cyclists in Dublin break every law every second of every day. The show no regard for pedestrians, other road users and endanger themselves. Nothing will be done about this. The only solution would be for cyclists to take responsibility for themselves and start showing consideration for others voluntarily. The shams who run the city are never going to come up with anything.

    • #816989
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So fxr based on your calculations is a dead cyclist an asset or a liability to the tax system? If so how by much?

      “Eighty per cent of cycle accidents occur when bicycles travel straight ahead and a vehicle manoeuvres into them. The most common contributory factor is ‘failed to look properly’ on the part of a vehicle driver. The evidence shows the bike simply is not seen on city streets,” she said.

    • #816990
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @missarchi wrote:

      . The evidence shows the bike simply is not seen on city streets,” she said.

      especially when riding at dusk or dark without lights or high vis gear. Or when breaking a light. Or riding the wrong way up a one way street. Or riding adjacent to the rear passenger door of a car approaching a left trun junction.Or, like the guy yesterday who I saw turning right at a no right turn junction and – unfortunately – narrowly avoiding getting flattened by a bus

      Physician, heal thyself

    • #816991
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      interesting videos from storyful.com about riding a bike in New York.
      http://storyful.com/stories/1000004447-navigating-new-york-streets-a-dangerous-game

    • #816992
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FXR, you do yourself a disservice in highlighting perfectly valid issues by taking an entrenched position. To generalise about ‘cyclists’, and to tiresomely pitch them in a battle against ‘motorists’, does nothing for either perceived ‘side’ and gets people’s backs up.

      Nobody can deny the level of law breaking in Dublin amongst many of those who cycle, but we have no statistics on this. To make broad statements such as “the majority of cyclists in Dublin are breaking every law possible” is simply unfair and untrue. Yes, there is widespread breaching of traffic law, but to blow it out of proportion, or only give one side of events, helps nobody. Similarly, to even differentiate cyclists as a distinct ‘lobby’ is nothing short of preposterous. Notwithstanding the Road Traffic Act, cyclists in a dense urban context are but another version of pedestrians. They are not an alien group – they are ‘everyone’. Anyone can be cyclist, as much as one can be a pedestrian. Not everyone can be a motorist, by way of financial constraints, lifestyle or skills. To accommodate a cyclist is to accommodate society. To accommodate a motorist is not always in the common interest. Yet, I do not object to investment in road infrastructure, in spite of the fact I do not own a car and rarely have cause to use road-based public transport. But as a pedestrian and a cyclist, the overwhelming balance of financial support for roads is an unacceptable fact of life I have to endure on a daily basis. To claim that infrastructure has to be put in place for the sole use of cyclists is ridiculous – it is for the benefit of civil society. The quoted costs are even more ridiculous and warrant no further comment.

      I agree rigorous enforcement is needed, particularly over blatant breaking of lights, lack of lights and visibility equipment, dangerous behaviour and cycling in dedicated pedestrian zones. I don’t think anyone would object to this. But one MUST consider the Dublin context, which has a city centre with little to no provision for cyclists. Simply put, cyclists ARE entitled to greater permeability and access through a street network than vehicles, the latter of which demand greater regulation and management due to their speed, relative inflexibility of movement, and consumption of road space amongst other factors. Those who object to cyclists having such rights are typically those who do not cycle, so do not understand the necessity of contraflows, dedicated lanes where required, or having to cycle on pavements or against the traffic to avoid dangerous conflicts with vehicles.

      Without question I agree that there is a defiant and unmanaged cycling culture in Dublin, but rather than objecting to it, one must be constructive and ask why it exists. The most obvious reason is that Dublin does not accommodate the needs of cyclists, so cyclists must work out their own management system, often governed by personal safety, which in the eyes of the law is a culture of indiscipline. But the same equally extends to pedestrian culture in Dublin – because the city consistently refuses to acknowledge their needs in signal sequencing, pedestrians refuse to acknowledge designated times and crossing points. A culture of indiscipline – albeit a modest national trait – is magnified where design fails to respond to need. In the case of cycling, quiet back streets are usually the safest and most comfortable for cycling, but invariably are one-way streets – often lightly trafficked. Likewise, direct major arteries such as Dame Street often end in a dead-end for cyclists as a result of the one-way system for access to Grafton Street. St. Stephen’s Green is another case in point, as charted earlier (also bearing in mind that convoluted one-way and diversion systems take a fraction of the time for a vehicle to navigate than a cyclist).

      What we need in Dublin is proper for provision for cyclists that responds to their needs, that over time – and it will take time – to eradicate the unmanaged cycling culture that has developed in the city in recent years.

    • #816993
      Anonymous
      Inactive
    • #816994
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @GrahamH wrote:

      FXR, you do yourself a disservice in highlighting perfectly valid issues by taking an entrenched position. To generalise about ‘cyclists’, and to tiresomely pitch them in a battle against ‘motorists’, does nothing for either perceived ‘side’ and gets people’s backs up.

      Sorry but I’m too short on time at the moment to go through your whole post point by point. The figure for the cost of a cycle lane comes from a Sunday Times article dated 29/05/2011 page 8.

      Firstly there is a cycling lobby.

      This page of the Dublin Cycling Campaign website is called “Lobby”.
      http://www.dublincycling.com/node/335

      I didn’t set out to pitch motorists against cyclists. I took the first set of photos at the Millennium Bridge. The first people I contacted were the Dublin Cycling Campaign. Shortly after that I also posted a link on cycling.ie

      The initial possibility was that there would be three stages;
      1. What are cyclists doing?
      2. Why are they doing it?
      3. What are the possible solutions if any?

      It never got that far. As I collected records of different aspects of cyclists behaviour the emails stopped getting replies. I’d even suggested having a discussion between cycling interests in a cycling forum but that never happened. I originally intended to keep the discussion as much as possible “within” cycling. I didn’t expect that there was going to be any other solution unless it comes from cyclists taking responsibility for their own behaviour and their own safety. I have dated emails that back this up.

      Then came the article in the Sunday Times. That came about because one Sunday Times journalist asked to interview me about a completely different subject. During the interview cycling came up since they were continually passing us on the footpath. That led to the second journalist writing the article even though he’d only spoken to me once on the phone about doing a piece for the ST. This week I turned down Newstalks Tom Dunne show. Then I turned down another radio show. Yesterday after the Joe Duffy show rang twice I declined to go on that afternoon and I declined to go on today as well. The bad mannered pompous researcher who I spoke to didn’t want to hear anything about doing a balanced program or who should be involved. I haven’t heard the show yet but I got several phone calls today to tell me it was on. I’ve a funny feeling I know what to expect. Who really needs to be hauled into the spotlight here is Dublin City Council who are being paid to run this city. Cyclists, motorists and pedestrians, consistent with human nature, will do whatever they can get away with which is what you see on the streets of Dublin everyday.

      The reason I took photos was to show what was actually happening rather than the usual anecdotal evidence that most of the motorist v cyclist discussions surf on.

      I had started to take photos of places that might be dangerous for bike riders but I needed cyclists to point them out. I couldn’t get that information. I did photograph a few places I thought are dangerous: Andrew St for example has a cycle lane which looks like it was planned by a lunatic.

      I also photographed cars breaking lights which you can see here http://photobucket.com/Red_light_cars
      This is a fact: in Dublin during heavy traffic at least one car will break the red light after amber on almost every occasion. Cyclists on the other hand will break the red light after traffic has stopped if they feel they can.

      The statement “most cyclists will go from A to B by the most convenient route and ignore all rules and regulations” can be easily proven by putting a video camera anywhere in the city centre on any day. It’s just a fact.

      In the last few days I’ve been contacted by a television station. I have a list of locations and the number of cyclists breaking the law for each time period which they’ve been sent based on each set of photos. I sent it to the TV station. If anyone wants me to post it I will and they can interpret it any way they want. All of the times and dates are backed up by photographs.

    • #816995
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      It’s pretty simple – If you want to find out what areas of Dublin are dangerous for cycling I suggest that rather than taking photos of cyclists from afar with a long lens you get on a bike and try cycling in this fair city of ours yourself. You will find out pretty quickly I can assure you.
      Between seriously dangerous potholes, speeding buses, zero planning, and no parking.
      The Dublin Bikes scheme is a convenient PR boost, but nothing has really happened in terms of planning or road quality or other issues.
      Try cycling across super wide Westmoreland Street(no cycle lane) when 10 busses are speeding in and out around you and you are stuck in the center of the road.

      You talk about cycle lanes – what cycle lanes? it has been years since the initial minor red lanes were put in on ‘certain’ easy out of the way streets, and have deteriotated to nothing ever since. Look in front of any bus stop in the city and you will see potholes – as they don’t reenforce bus stop road space. And the general condition of what is a relatively tiny city area has got to dangerous levels with many potholes.

      Many of the most dangerous streets in the city have no cycle lanes, while wide streets do. Why? because it is easy, not because it is what is needed. The DCC has no interest in serving the needs of actual cyclists. Look at the canal cycle route they are putting in to great expense – streets, and routes that are rarely used, and so quiet a dedicated lane is totally unnecessary. Meanwhile try cycling from Rathmines to the city center and you will be met with a mass of dangerous potholes, and poor planning. Try cycling back to Rathmines, and you can’t because you technically can’t cycle around stephen’s green, and the road by The Bleeding Horse is one way.

      Likewise try getting a space to lock a bike. Dawson Street has a max of 20 spaces – always full. O’Connell Street only has two spots of about 30 spaces – always full. And try parking a bike at a Dart station- they have still not put in bike parking in most of the Dart stations like Landsdowne etc., Try parking a bike at Sandmount Strand – not one bike stand.

      As with everything in Dublin I’m afraid ongoing ‘maintenance’ is not something DCC understand. They put in infrastructure and then from that moment on they are left to deteriorate to nothing – Smithfield/O’Connell street regeneration, Boardwalk etc.,

      But to come along sniping at cyclists with a long lens and and blame them, while yet again DCC get off the hook is absurd.
      Why doesn’t DCC have a road maintenance crew to repair dangerous potholes on an ongoing basis? The center of Dublin is tiny, yet nothing is done until you endlessly phone or email about it.

    • #816996
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      At lunchtime today I saw a cyclists riding with one hand whilst holding a full sized golf umbrella with the other. He cycled through a red light shortly before cycling past a police car.

      yep – those potholes are a NIGHTmare

    • #816997
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      It’s pretty simple – If you want to find out what areas of Dublin are dangerous for cycling I suggest that rather than taking photos of cyclists from afar with a long lens you get on a bike and try cycling in this fair city of ours yourself. You will find out pretty quickly I can assure you.
      Between seriously dangerous potholes, speeding buses, zero planning, and no parking.
      The Dublin Bikes scheme is a convenient PR boost, but nothing has really happened in terms of planning or road quality or other issues.

      In other countries I often cycled as much as 50 miles. I wouldn’t get on a bike in Dublin city if you paid me. I know how dangerous it is. Over the last few years I’ve been present on the streets on 4 separate occasions when people were killed outright. I think anyone who cycles in Dublin city is taking their life in their hands.

      The “success” of the Dublin Bike scheme amounts to no more than counting numbers of bikes used. It’s as half baked in it’s planning as everything else is by DCC. There is no thought as to which route a cyclists will use as a result of where the bike stand is located. The fact that the city is small, haphazardly planned and badly regulated all combine to encourage cyclists to engage in bad behaviour.

      From Princes St Nrt bike stand, to travel to Grafton St strictly legally as the laws stand, a cyclists would have to take a very roundabout route. First they’d have to cycle north on O’Connell st up to the lights at the junction of Cathal Bruagh St. Then south past one bus stop after another only reaching a usable cycle lane after passing the junction of Abbey St Mid. This cycle lane is marked by poles showing once again the inconsistent standards that apply in Dublin. Most cyclists just mount the footpath at Pennys and cross to Clearys on the median.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Try cycling across super wide Westmoreland Street(no cycle lane) when 10 busses are speeding in and out around you and you are stuck in the center of the road.

      I know Westmoreland street well. I’ve also photographed one cyclist after another on the street at night without lights. I’ve captured a few more going the wrong way on both sides of it and cyclists on the footpath and cyclists coming the wrong way out of Fleet st around the illegally parked taxis.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      You talk about cycle lanes – what cycle lanes? it has been years since the initial minor red lanes were put in on ‘certain’ easy out of the way streets, and have deteriotated to nothing ever since. Look in front of any bus stop in the city and you will see potholes – as they don’t reenforce bus stop road space. And the general condition of what is a relatively tiny city area has got to dangerous levels with many potholes.

      Many of the most dangerous streets in the city have no cycle lanes, while wide streets do. Why? because it is easy, not because it is what is needed. The DCC has no interest in serving the needs of actual cyclists. Look at the canal cycle route they are putting in to great expense – streets, and routes that are rarely used, and so quiet a dedicated lane is totally unnecessary. Meanwhile try cycling from Rathmines to the city center and you will be met with a mass of dangerous potholes, and poor planning. Try cycling back to Rathmines, and you can’t because you technically can’t cycle around stephen’s green, and the road by The Bleeding Horse is one way.

      DCC has no interest in doing it’s job. They quote the number of cycle lanes in terms of kilometres not in terms of quality. It’s a slap dash approach that looks to like it’s purpose was to draw down EU grants and make it look like they were doing their what we pay them for.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Likewise try getting a space to lock a bike. Dawson Street has a max of 20 spaces – always full. O’Connell Street only has two spots of about 30 spaces – always full. And try parking a bike at a Dart station- they have still not put in bike parking in most of the Dart stations like Landsdowne etc., Try parking a bike at Sandmount Strand – not one bike stand.

      Bikes at the same shouldn’t be locked to anything and everything. The city is only so big. While there may not be enough bike stands it would be going overboard if every street started to look like handle bar city. There is also the fact that at great expense the DCC have cleared a floor in Drury St car park which cyclists are not using fully. It’s got CCTV it’s out of the weather but still there are bike locked to lamp standards and bollards blocking footpaths and street seating only metres away.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      As with everything in Dublin I’m afraid ongoing ‘maintenance’ is not something DCC understand. They put in infrastructure and then from that moment on they are left to deteriorate to nothing – Smithfield/O’Connell street regeneration, Boardwalk etc.,

      This country in terms of politics is a failure. Politically it’s like a giant flan that’s collapsed in the middle. The nearer you get to the centre of power the lower down you travel.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      But to come along sniping at cyclists with a long lens and and blame them, while yet again DCC get off the hook is absurd. Why doesn’t DCC have a road maintenance crew to repair dangerous potholes on an ongoing basis? The center of Dublin is tiny, yet nothing is done until you endlessly phone or email about it.

      That’s the point exactly: this all lies at the door of DCC. Cyclists, pedestrians and motorists all pointing the finger at each other are like the residents of a badly built, badly designed, poorly finished housing estate. What needs to be done is get to the big fancy offices of the builder and hold him to account. In this case it’s DCC.

      I was asked to go on another radio show today. I went through the same rigmarole. I said I might if it was a balanced program and it was based on 1 what are cyclists doing 2 why 3 what should be done. This is what I was told on the second phone call: our listeners are in the ??? to ?? (I can’t remember) it will be a quick 5 minutes, just a light hearted piece…

      So I said “does that meant I won’t mention the cyclists I saw getting his head crushed under the wheel of a truck?

      Eh no ….well er…it’s just really for young people….and it’s Dublin Cycling Week an’ all….

      I told them to call Will Andrews of the Dublin Cycling Campaign. As far as I know they did, so he’ll be on a radio show (I presume) on Monday at 2.40 pm.

    • #816998
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      It’s pretty simple – If you want to find out what areas of Dublin are dangerous for cycling I suggest that rather than taking photos of cyclists from afar with a long lens you get on a bike and try cycling in this fair city of ours yourself. You will find out pretty quickly I can assure you.
      Between seriously dangerous potholes, speeding buses, zero planning, and no parking.
      The Dublin Bikes scheme is a convenient PR boost, but nothing has really happened in terms of planning or road quality or other issues.

      In other countries I often cycled as much as 50 miles. I wouldn’t get on a bike in Dublin city if you paid me. I know how dangerous it is. Over the last few years I’ve been present on the streets on 4 separate occasions when people were killed outright. I think anyone who cycles in Dublin city is taking their life in their hands.

      The “success” of the Dublin Bike scheme amounts to no more than counting numbers of bikes used. It’s as half baked in it’s planning as everything else is by DCC. There is no thought as to which route a cyclists will use as a result of where the bike stand is located. The fact that the city is small, haphazardly planned and badly regulated all combine to encourage cyclists to engage in bad behaviour.

      From Princes St Nrt bike stand, to travel to Grafton St strictly legally as the laws stand, a cyclists would have to take a very roundabout route. First they’d have to cycle north on O’Connell st up to the lights at the junction of Cathal Bruagh St. Then south past one bus stop after another only reaching a usable cycle lane after passing the junction of Abbey St Mid. This cycle lane is marked by poles showing once again the inconsistent standards that apply in Dublin. Most cyclists just mount the footpath at Pennys and cross to Clearys on the median.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Try cycling across super wide Westmoreland Street(no cycle lane) when 10 busses are speeding in and out around you and you are stuck in the center of the road.

      I know Westmoreland street well. I’ve also photographed one cyclist after another on the street at night without lights. I’ve captured a few more going the wrong way on both sides of it and cyclists on the footpath and cyclists coming the wrong way out of Fleet st around the illegally parked taxis.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      You talk about cycle lanes – what cycle lanes? it has been years since the initial minor red lanes were put in on ‘certain’ easy out of the way streets, and have deteriotated to nothing ever since. Look in front of any bus stop in the city and you will see potholes – as they don’t reenforce bus stop road space. And the general condition of what is a relatively tiny city area has got to dangerous levels with many potholes.

      Many of the most dangerous streets in the city have no cycle lanes, while wide streets do. Why? because it is easy, not because it is what is needed. The DCC has no interest in serving the needs of actual cyclists. Look at the canal cycle route they are putting in to great expense – streets, and routes that are rarely used, and so quiet a dedicated lane is totally unnecessary. Meanwhile try cycling from Rathmines to the city center and you will be met with a mass of dangerous potholes, and poor planning. Try cycling back to Rathmines, and you can’t because you technically can’t cycle around stephen’s green, and the road by The Bleeding Horse is one way.

      DCC has no interest in doing it’s job. They quote the number of cycle lanes in terms of kilometres not in terms of quality. It’s a slap dash approach that looks to like it’s purpose was to draw down EU grants and make it look like they were doing their what we pay them for.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Likewise try getting a space to lock a bike. Dawson Street has a max of 20 spaces – always full. O’Connell Street only has two spots of about 30 spaces – always full. And try parking a bike at a Dart station- they have still not put in bike parking in most of the Dart stations like Landsdowne etc., Try parking a bike at Sandmount Strand – not one bike stand.

      Bikes at the same shouldn’t be locked to anything and everything. The city is only so big. While there may not be enough bike stands it would be going overboard if every street started to look like handle bar city. There is also the fact that at great expense the DCC have cleared a floor in Drury St car park which cyclists are not using fully. It’s got CCTV it’s out of the weather but still there are bike locked to lamp standards and bollards blocking footpaths and street seating only metres away.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      As with everything in Dublin I’m afraid ongoing ‘maintenance’ is not something DCC understand. They put in infrastructure and then from that moment on they are left to deteriorate to nothing – Smithfield/O’Connell street regeneration, Boardwalk etc.,

      This country in terms of politics is a failure. Politically it’s like a giant flan that’s collapsed in the middle. The nearer you get to the centre of power the lower down you travel.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      But to come along sniping at cyclists with a long lens and and blame them, while yet again DCC get off the hook is absurd. Why doesn’t DCC have a road maintenance crew to repair dangerous potholes on an ongoing basis? The center of Dublin is tiny, yet nothing is done until you endlessly phone or email about it.

      That’s the point exactly: this all lies at the door of DCC. Cyclists, pedestrians and motorists all pointing the finger at each other are like the residents of a badly built, badly designed, poorly finished housing estate. What needs to be done is get to the big fancy offices of the builder and hold him to account. In this case it’s DCC.

      I was asked to go on another radio show today. I went through the same rigmarole. I said I might if it was a balanced program and it was based on 1 what are cyclists doing 2 why 3 what should be done. This is what I was told on the second phone call: our listeners are in the ??? to ?? (I can’t remember) it will be a quick 5 minutes, just a light hearted piece…

      So I said “does that meant I won’t mention the cyclists I saw getting his head crushed under the wheel of a truck?

      Eh no ….well er…it’s just really for young people….and it’s Dublin Cycling Week an’ all….

      I told them to call Will Andrews of the Dublin Cycling Campaign. As far as I know they did, so he’ll be on a radio show (I presume) on Monday at 2.40 pm.

    • #816999
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FXR — I agree with you that there needs to be better enforcement for cyclists. There’s also a need for better enforcement for motorists and pedestrians too — it’s a general problem with lack of enforcement of our traffic laws. It’s by no means an exclusive problem to cyclists.

      And, no, I’m not just a cyclist, I’m a cyclist and pedestrian. I’ve a young baby so I can’t stand other cyclists breaking light or cycling fast on the footpath with no care in the world for others. Even just as a cyclist, I’m fed up of others passing me at red lights.

      But you’re wrong on a lot of points.

      For example, on “bicycle clutter.” Only a small fraction of cyclists park their bikes in a way which obstructs others — motorists parked or partly parked on the footpath is a far, far, far larger problem in my experiences of pushing a pram around and having a babe in a carrier. Where there is no obstruction, there is no law stopping cyclists from using polls, trees etc to lock their bikes to.

      You’re wrong on other points too…

      @FXR wrote:

      Why then does the cycling lobby demand I pay for more and more cycle lanes costing up to 1.6 million per kilometre? The amount of money being spent needs to be questioned at least.

      Where has the cycling lobby demanded this? Can you point to one article?

      To be fair, the Dublin Cycle Campaign don’t agree with the spending on cycle lanes. They have said to me that it would be better spent on training for all road users, including cyclists.

      @FXR wrote:

      In all the campaigning for more rights and facilities for cyclists there is never a mention of cyclists contributing a single cent to the economy.

      Cyclists don’t contribute to the economy? What on earth are you basing that on? :problem:

      @FXR wrote:

      Cycling requires additional facilities not already in existence for which they will not pay one red cent.

      Actually cycling does not require any such additional facilities. People are and have been cycling for years without such.

      But the government wants to provide these additional facilities. Because they think that having more cyclists is good for the country, good for people’s health, good for the economy, good for the taxpayer, and good for environment.

      @FXR wrote:

      It’s a fact: cyclists in Dublin break every law every second of every day. The show no regard for pedestrians, other road users and endanger themselves.

      No, that’s not a fact.

      It’s only a fact that some cyclist break the law, and only some of them have no respect for anybody. Just like some pedestrians and motorists do the same and some have no respect for anybody.

      @wearnicehats wrote:

      there’s no doubt that the lycra crowd have to put their money where their mouths are.

      The dublin cycling campaign charges €20 for membership. make it €100 and put the other €80 towards cycle lanes.

      There are myriad of cycling clubs around the country – attach a similar levy…

      Errr… the lycra crowd? From the members I’ve ever talked to, there’s not that many of “the lycra crowd” in the cycling campaign. Anyway, “the lycra crowd” are not the kind of people who want expensive segregated cycle lanes.

      And a levy on bicycles? You don’t seem to understand that there’s currently tax exemptions on bicycles and gear as the Government wants more people cycling not less?

    • #817000
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The fact is that the the capital city covers a tiny area of street routes that are heavily used by cyclists yet even these clearly cannot be maintained by DCC. The pothole situation has gone way beyond bumps in the road to major fissures and whole chunks of road missing. In front of every bus stop is major road damage now. And the point is that this tiny area is not watched over by DCC at all, so a major pothole will go totally ignored and unfixed for weeks on end or unless you send 20 emails to DCC to get them to fix it, with maps and directions. They have no clue of the ongoing damage of the roads on a weekly basis in heavily used city center areas.
      The badly planned red traffic bumps in front of the likes of Chapters books left whole portions of the road in craters for months. And any calls about it were met with notice that they were currently seeking pitches from sub-contractors for the job. Crazy.

      It is also clear there is a huge difference between road repairs carried out by contracted utility companies who generally now lay, flatten and seal new repairs pretty well, and those carried out by DCC, which are generally just mountains of tar piled into holes and left for cyclists to kill themselves on, and which slowly break down and do even more damage. Clearly these DCC crews have zero training in road repair and maintenance. IMO the only way the road surface will be improved is if a private clamping style maintenance company is set up to watch over road repairs and fine either contractors or DCC for shoddy work.

      And they need to shift their attitude from one of quick fix to one of ongoing maintenance. You just know the new canal cycle routes will be launched with much fanfare when finished, but from that moment on will just deteriorate due to zero maintenance.

      It could not possibly cost that much to have a permanent well trained road maintenance crew for the central city area, all on full time wages as opposed to the current super expensive contract based system where every pothole is a job number and put on a waiting list.

    • #817001
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      There is extra funding being made available of the main routes in Dublin — €12m on top of the normal resurfacing budget of around €4m. There’ll be a focus on QBCs.

    • #817002
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      FXR — I agree with you that there needs to be better enforcement for cyclists. There’s also a need for better enforcement for motorists and pedestrians too — it’s a general problem with lack of enforcement of our traffic laws. It’s by no means an exclusive problem to cyclists.

      It’s not as simple as that gintyc. It’s not enough to say we need more enforcement when an already inadequate number of Gardai are being further reduced. Gardai should be dealing with crime and serious offences. Cycling on Grafton street is bad and even dangerous (where some individual cyclists are concerned) but it’s not in the same league as drug dealing. A Gardai has to issue a summons and go to court to have a cyclists charged with breaking the law. That’s ridiculous.

      What the city needs is Bicycle Wardens. Not just a team who operate from 9 to 5 either but at night time as well. In the centre city at night I’ve counted numerous unlit cyclists well after dark. But hold on…..our dullard politicians most likely do anything that they don’t do “over there”.. To listen to some of the themes running through this subject on different websites it sounds like the stupid Irish should just hire the Dutch bicycle experts to show us what to do.

      @gintyc wrote:

      For example, on “bicycle clutter.” Only a small fraction of cyclists park their bikes in a way which obstructs others — motorists parked or partly parked on the footpath is a far, far, far larger problem in my experiences of pushing a pram around and having a babe in a carrier. Where there is no obstruction, there is no law stopping cyclists from using polls, trees etc to lock their bikes to.

      I contacted DCC to get clarification on exactly where it’s allowed to lock a bike and where not. That was about 2 months ago. I expect they’re too busy running the city to get back to me and besides, I’m only a citizen. I asked as many visually impaired people as I could about how they found walking around Dublin city. One even told me he often gets his stick caught in bicycle wheels. Blind people depend on learning streets by memory. Lamp standards are not bicycle stands. Trees are not bicycle stands. Bicycles locked to street furniture hamper effective cleaning by automatic street cleaners and washers. I asked many different members of the street cleaning staff about this over a period of time.

      As for parking:

    • #817003
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      In terms of cycle lanes is this a joke or a way of upping the numbers for DCC?

    • #817004
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      Where has the cycling lobby demanded this? Can you point to one article?

      I’ll have to get back to you on that one gintyc. I’m sure if seen something to that effect but I’ve been through website after website and I’ve lost track.

      @gintyc wrote:

      To be fair, the Dublin Cycle Campaign don’t agree with the spending on cycle lanes. They have said to me that it would be better spent on training for all road users, including cyclists.

      Do they object to money being spent on cycle lanes. I seem to remember the Dub Cyl Cam is represent on the Dublin City Council cycling forum.

      @gintyc wrote:

      Cyclists don’t contribute to the economy? What on earth are you basing that on? :problem:

      There is no charge specific to cycling. Cyclists pay no road tax or licence fee. Cyclists don’t pay any fee for the provision of bike stands, there is no cycle lane tax (which for motorists is called road tax). A tax free bike scheme reduces the public income and increases public expenditure as show in the Dublin’s Bicycle clutter video. Whatever the arguments for the conditions it’s a fact that cyclists don’t contribute any funds specific to cycling to the economy.

      @gintyc wrote:

      Actually cycling does not require any such additional facilities. People are and have been cycling for years without such. But the government wants to provide these additional facilities. Because they think that having more cyclists is good for the country, good for people’s health, good for the economy, good for the taxpayer, and good for environment.

      There’s the real root of the problem: politics in Ireland. Here is a facility provided specifically for cyclists;http://www.dublincitycycling.ie/blog/index.php/2009/10/new-cycle-parking-facility-on-drury-street/

      Note that in their own photos trumpeting this new facility the place is half empty. Note the date on the top of website is 27 Oct 2009. Now look at the photos take on 10/06/2011 http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee327/Falconer1st/Dublin%20Cyclists%20Drury%20St/.

      That’s over a year and a half and the expensive facility is still half empty on a Friday afternoon at 5.41 pm.

      @FXR wrote:

      It’s a fact: cyclists in Dublin break every law every second of every day. The show no regard for pedestrians, other road users and endanger themselves.

      @gintyc wrote:

      No, that’s not a fact.
      It’s only a fact that some cyclist break the law, and only some of them have no respect for anybody. Just like some pedestrians and motorists do the same and some have no respect for anybody.

      I’m afraid it’s a fact. I’ve tested that statement over and over. I’ve got this recorded and viewable evidence and if anyone can provide similar evidence to contradict it be my guest;

      1. Dublin Cyclists Wild Frontier.
      Cyclists involved in behaviour to the extent it could be classed as suicidal. This includes cycling into traffic the wrong way on busy one way streets.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

      2. The Pedestrianised South King Street.
      Dublin cyclists on pedestrian streets. In this short slideshow cyclists are breaking the law every 21 seconds.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVaAhGmFQzM

      3. Sean O’Casey Pedestrian Bridge.
      Cycle lanes cost up to 1.6 million per kilometre (see Sunday Times article by Ciara Healy 29/05/2011 page 8)
      This is the Sean O’Casey bridge: it is surrounded by the best cycle lanes in the city. Cyclists simply ignore the cycle lanes and use the pedestrian bridge.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgpY0IqM1Wg

      4. The Millennium Pedestrian Bridge.
      The Millennium pedestrian bridge. I counted over 100 mounted cyclists crossing the bridge in 2 hours. Of those a good number turned the wrong way up the Quays while the rest cycled into the narrow Millennium walkway.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYuIBlYTF1g

      That’s not even all I have. There’s more. I didn’t have to set aside any great amount of time or do any detective work or gain little know inside knowledge to find the locations. All I had to do was do what I was doing any way and take photographs along the way.

    • #817005
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      As someone who commutes by bicycle every day and has done so for 8+ years (and in that time has had one minor collision with a vehicle) I just want to add my 2 cents worth.

      Sure, if you want to be pedantic about it, then yes, cyclist do break the law every day, however, it really depends on what you define as the law (well, the law is the law you say) but bicycles are fundamentally different to both pedestrians and vehicles, and it is only sensible and right that different rules should apply. I regularly skip red lights, and I see no problem with this as long as the junction is clear and it is safe to do so. I will continue to do so. Similarly, although cyclists blatantly travelling along footpaths is pet peeve of mine, I’ll admit to occasionally mounting an unoccupied footpath for short distances, again, if it cuts my journey time and doesn’t hurt anyone, I don’t see the problem with it.

      I acknowledge there is a need for some cyclists to be more considerate, likewise drivers and pedestrians; but frankly I don’t much care for the rule book, the rules need to be bent a little. In London where I live now, this is acknowledged to an extent where many road signs, such as “no left turn”, are appended with “except cyclists” notes. Its been a few years since I cycled in Dublin so I don’t I can’t remember if there is an equivalent. This could be taken further, such as in the sequencing of traffic lights, for example, at junctions cyclists could have an amber light during pedestrian lights; turning right at a junction can be one of the most dangerous manoeuvres for a cyclist, getting a head start on traffic would make it safer but pedestrians would still have priority.

      But surely cyclists should contribute financially for all this infrastructure? Well, no, absolutely not. Cyclists cause a fraction of the wear and tear on roads as vehicles do, and the other benefits do not need to be repeated but I will anyway, health (exercise), health again (air quality) reduced pollution, reduced congestion, etc, etc. Cyclists need to be incentivised, not penalised. This means making the proper infrastructure available, extending cycle-hire schemes, making best use of cycle-to-work schemes, and on a larger scale of planning, encourage city living, etc. If there was a major cultural shift, where the cyclist became the dominant road user in the city (such as the critical mass event on the last Friday of the month, look it up if you don’t know it) then it would be justifiable for cyclists to contribute. But frankly, considering the current balance is anti-cyclist, I have no intention of paying for the privilege of putting my life on the line to get form A to B only to find nowhere to park my bike when I get to B!

      I’m going to finish on an even more controversial statement: Aggressive cycling is safer cycling! Making a nuisance of yourself on the road to a certain degree, making sure motorists are aware of your presence and actively acknowledging you is safer than hugging the kerb and sitting back in traffic where there is less chance of being noticed (as well as hi-vis and lights of course!)

    • #817006
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Personally I have only skipped lights when I have felt my safety is in danger if I pull out at the same time as the heavy traffic beside me. Fo example high trucks and buses if they don’t see me can pull into the left and crush me easily – this has nearly happened to me a few times. I’m sorry but the fact is most experienced cyclists know instinctively when their life is at risk in certain situations and you just can’t follow everything by the book in many situations. Especially in a poorly planned city like Dublin. I think you forget just how vulnerable a cyclist is to serious injury on a daily basis if they don’t keep their eyes open. And sometimes that involves pulling onto a pavement if you think you are going to be hit by a truck or bus.

      Likewise there is nothing more dangerous for a cyclist that a left turning car that cuts across you as you are going forward. I have been hit by two cars so far this way when I stayed on a level with the traffic at the lights. Likewise it is far safer for a left turning cyclist to turn left through the lights if the traffic is clear, especially if you are turning into another empty cycle lane. Many junctions like one in Ranelagh are poorly planned with left and straight junctions at traffic light leaving cyclists vulnerable.

      Many streets in Dublin necessitate thinking beyond the rules of the road for pure safety reasons. Cycling along the quays is one case in point. Coming from the Point the cycle lane disappears up and down onto and off the road in incredibly dangerous ways if you were to follow them. They actually encourage you to pull onto the road, into traffic. No one in their right mind would do this. All for the sake of a badly planned cycle lane that doesn’t run in a straight line, on one of the most dangerous roads in Dublin center.

      In terms of parking there should could easily be more parking spaces allocated to bikes in laneways off the main road to avoid clutter. The parking frames are also very poorly designed in many areas of the city IMO. The should be angled – not straight and eating up half the pavement space – most are not. They should also be properly spaced – not crammed together – most are not. Try getting your bike out of the bike parking space at stephen’s green shopping center and you’ll see what I mean. Also many of the bikes parked in the spaces are dead bikes that have been there for months and are eating up valuable parking space. There ar a few of these on Dawson street. One that was being abused by the Celtic Whiskey Company for advertising, which they eventually took away, but left the broken bike they were using to secure the spot.
      The Council themselves have been placing parking rings on many of the poles in the city recently. Maybe they just need more of these. Dublin is full of poles as we well know, but there are plenty of opportunity for well designed bike parking if it properly planned and designed. As it is there isn’t either. Again, you should be taking this to the DCC and their useless new ‘cycle officer’, not blaming cyclists.

    • #817007
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Personally I have only skipped lights when I have felt my safety is in danger if I pull out at the same time as the heavy traffic beside me. Fo example high trucks and buses if they don’t see me can pull into the left and crush me easily – this has nearly happened to me a few times. I’m sorry but the fact is most experienced cyclists know instinctively when their life is at risk in certain situations and you just can’t follow everything by the book in many situations. Especially in a poorly planned city like Dublin. I think you forget just how vulnerable a cyclist is to serious injury on a daily basis if they don’t keep their eyes open. And sometimes that involves pulling onto a pavement if you think you are going to be hit by a truck or bus.

      I took these photos on Ormond Quay

      I know how vulnerable cyclists are David. In fact I may be far more aware of the dangers than an awful lot of cyclists seem to be. Just look at this behaviour which is common and recurring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

      I was sitting in traffic not so long ago. Looking up at the junction a truck came into view signalling to turn towards me. All the indicators were flashing. Being a bigger vehicle he has to pass the centre of the junction to make the turn. As the cab broke left a cyclist came into view alongside the truck, head down, peddling away, oblivious to everything. The front wheel knocked him off the bike. He went face down on the road and was desperately pawing the ground as the truck swept over him. The centre bulge of the axle caught his bulky back pack which jerked his body to his left. His head went under the front wheel. He died instantly though I imagine to him his last minutes felt like an eternity. He had a wife and children.

      I was about a hundred metres away looking straight at him. I went to the inquest about a year later as a witness. A fire brigade officer, over a cup of coffee, gave me some more of the details I could have done without. He described the cyclists face mashed into the spokes of the bike. Over a year after the accident the truck driver still hadn’t recovered. He had a nervous breakdown. That’s not the only time I’ve been on a street when a cyclist got killed.

      The root of the problem is Dublin City Council who seem to be absent most of the time. I can name one problem after another on the streets. A lot of them only need some paint and intelligent planning to fix. Today I was talking to a friend of mine. The entrance to his business is constantly blocked by a parked car. The street was dug up one time then patched with tar which covered the double yellow lines. He’s been reporting the problem constantly and trying to get the double lines repainted. That’s been going on for 9 years now.

      If there are situations where it can be proven by research that there are instances where the law should be changed then that’s what should be done. In the meantime DCC has established by their failure to run the city that widespread breaking of the law is acceptable. It’s “Do What Yah Like Dublin” because there’s nobody watching.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Many streets in Dublin necessitate thinking beyond the rules of the road for pure safety reasons. Cycling along the quays is one case in point. Coming from the Point the cycle lane disappears up and down onto and off the road in incredibly dangerous ways if you were to follow them. They actually encourage you to pull onto the road, into traffic. No one in their right mind would do this. All for the sake of a badly planned cycle lane that doesn’t run in a straight line, on one of the most dangerous roads in Dublin center.

      It’s as if the inhabitants of Dublin City Council offices travel in and out of the city by helicopter. Any individual resident of Dublin city could walk around for a day and make a list of problems just by looking at the state of the place.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      In terms of parking there should could easily be more parking spaces allocated to bikes in laneways off the main road to avoid clutter. The parking frames are also very poorly designed in many areas of the city IMO. The should be angled – not straight and eating up half the pavement space – most are not. They should also be properly spaced – not crammed together – most are not. Try getting your bike out of the bike parking space at stephen’s green shopping center and you’ll see what I mean.

      I think this illustrates your point;

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Also many of the bikes parked in the spaces are dead bikes that have been there for months and are eating up valuable parking space. There ar a few of these on Dawson street. One that was being abused by the Celtic Whiskey Company for advertising, which they eventually took away, but left the broken bike they were using to secure the spot.

      This kind of thing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeos7H8xLdQ

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      The Council themselves have been placing parking rings on many of the poles in the city recently. Maybe they just need more of these. Dublin is full of poles as we well know, but there are plenty of opportunity for well designed bike parking if it properly planned and designed. As it is there isn’t either. Again, you should be taking this to the DCC and their useless new ‘cycle officer’, not blaming cyclists.

      I looked at those rings. That DCC put them up doesn’t really recommend them. You’ll find an example on Trinity street. In the video Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter you can see a cyclists on one of those small trick bikes squeezing past two pensioners right where a bike is locked to one of the rings. The street cleaners I spoke to told me bikes locked to poles mean that a part of the street can’t be cleaned. The situation basically is this: you can more or less lock a bike to anything anywhere any time.

      The one place you’ll almost certainly never see a bike locked is a bus stop. The bus drivers tell me that Dublin Bus have any bikes locked to Bus Stops removed. I’m not inclined to take that without reservation. None of the bus drivers could subsequently tell me of ever having come across the situation.

    • #817008
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Personally I have only skipped lights when I have felt my safety is in danger if I pull out at the same time as the heavy traffic beside me. Fo example high trucks and buses if they don’t see me can pull into the left and crush me easily – this has nearly happened to me a few times. I’m sorry but the fact is most experienced cyclists know instinctively when their life is at risk in certain situations and you just can’t follow everything by the book in many situations. Especially in a poorly planned city like Dublin. I think you forget just how vulnerable a cyclist is to serious injury on a daily basis if they don’t keep their eyes open. And sometimes that involves pulling onto a pavement if you think you are going to be hit by a truck or bus.

      I took these photos on Ormond Quay

      I know how vulnerable cyclists are David. In fact I may be far more aware of the dangers than an awful lot of cyclists seem to be. Just look at this behaviour which is common and recurring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU

      I was sitting in traffic not so long ago. Looking up at the junction a truck came into view signalling to turn towards me. All the indicators were flashing. Being a bigger vehicle he has to pass the centre of the junction to make the turn. As the cab broke left a cyclist came into view alongside the truck, head down, peddling away, oblivious to everything. The front wheel knocked him off the bike. He went face down on the road and was desperately pawing the ground as the truck swept over him. The centre bulge of the axle caught his bulky back pack which jerked his body to his left. His head went under the front wheel. He died instantly though I imagine to him his last minutes felt like an eternity. He had a wife and children.

      I was about a hundred metres away looking straight at him. I went to the inquest about a year later as a witness. A fire brigade officer, over a cup of coffee, gave me some more of the details I could have done without. He described the cyclists face mashed into the spokes of the bike. Over a year after the accident the truck driver still hadn’t recovered. He had a nervous breakdown. That’s not the only time I’ve been on a street when a cyclist got killed.

      The root of the problem is Dublin City Council who seem to be absent most of the time. I can name one problem after another on the streets. A lot of them only need some paint and intelligent planning to fix. Today I was talking to a friend of mine. The entrance to his business is constantly blocked by a parked car. The street was dug up one time then patched with tar which covered the double yellow lines. He’s been reporting the problem constantly and trying to get the double lines repainted. That’s been going on for 9 years now.

      If there are situations where it can be proven by research that there are instances where the law should be changed then that’s what should be done. In the meantime DCC has established by their failure to run the city that widespread breaking of the law is acceptable. It’s “Do What Yah Like Dublin” because there’s nobody watching.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Many streets in Dublin necessitate thinking beyond the rules of the road for pure safety reasons. Cycling along the quays is one case in point. Coming from the Point the cycle lane disappears up and down onto and off the road in incredibly dangerous ways if you were to follow them. They actually encourage you to pull onto the road, into traffic. No one in their right mind would do this. All for the sake of a badly planned cycle lane that doesn’t run in a straight line, on one of the most dangerous roads in Dublin center.

      It’s as if the inhabitants of Dublin City Council offices travel in and out of the city by helicopter. Any individual resident of Dublin city could walk around for a day and make a list of problems just by looking at the state of the place.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      In terms of parking there should could easily be more parking spaces allocated to bikes in laneways off the main road to avoid clutter. The parking frames are also very poorly designed in many areas of the city IMO. The should be angled – not straight and eating up half the pavement space – most are not. They should also be properly spaced – not crammed together – most are not. Try getting your bike out of the bike parking space at stephen’s green shopping center and you’ll see what I mean.

      I think this illustrates your point;

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Also many of the bikes parked in the spaces are dead bikes that have been there for months and are eating up valuable parking space. There ar a few of these on Dawson street. One that was being abused by the Celtic Whiskey Company for advertising, which they eventually took away, but left the broken bike they were using to secure the spot.

      This kind of thing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeos7H8xLdQ

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      The Council themselves have been placing parking rings on many of the poles in the city recently. Maybe they just need more of these. Dublin is full of poles as we well know, but there are plenty of opportunity for well designed bike parking if it properly planned and designed. As it is there isn’t either. Again, you should be taking this to the DCC and their useless new ‘cycle officer’, not blaming cyclists.

      I looked at those rings. That DCC put them up doesn’t really recommend them. You’ll find an example on Trinity street. In the video Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter you can see a cyclists on one of those small trick bikes squeezing past two pensioners right where a bike is locked to one of the rings. The street cleaners I spoke to told me bikes locked to poles mean that a part of the street can’t be cleaned. The situation basically is this: you can more or less lock a bike to anything anywhere any time.

      The one place you’ll almost certainly never see a bike locked is a bus stop. The bus drivers tell me that Dublin Bus have any bikes locked to Bus Stops removed. I’m not inclined to take that without reservation. None of the bus drivers could subsequently tell me of ever having come across the situation.

    • #817009
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I don’t know why the images in that last post have disappeared.

      This is an example of breaking a red light. Three cyclists in a row went through the light.

      Should this be allowed and is it safe. There is no opposing traffic flow. The bus on the right restricts the view of the cyclists but they are all moving slow. If you allow cyclists to break some lights will a lot of cyclists use that as an excuse to break any light?

    • #817010
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      To be honest when there is no real junction and no one crossing the street must cyclists will go forward.
      You are getting into all kinds of general bad traffic design decisions that are programmed around cars, but not in safe free moving around a city.
      Dublin has become over stuffed with traffic lights and poles in recent years mainly to control cars.

      You could say the same about pedestrians jaywalking across that very same street. The pedestrian crossing is slightly further down and 9/10 people cross before the lights onto the triangle.

      It’s as if the inhabitants of Dublin City Council offices travel in and out of the city by helicopter. Any individual resident of Dublin city could walk around for a day and make a list of problems just by looking at the state of the place.

      Exactly. I don’t get a sense of anyone watching the daily problems that most can see that cycle regularly in the city. There is a big difference in surveying a road route by car and getting out as a pedestrian or bike. And even then I’m not sure they have anyone watching out for these things. Most cyclists I know are constantly having to email and phone DCC about damage – If that is the way they want to do it, they should at least set up an automated reporting website to make the process easy. But really Dublin is tiny and it shouldn’t be necessary.

      Most problems, like the total lack of a cycle route around the East side of the Green could be fixed easily. It says buses only on the sign – but shouldn’t that be buses and bikes only? Everyone cycles that route to get to Earstfort tce > ranelagh/rathmines anyway. But if you ring them they tell you it is officially for busses only and you are supposed to go all the way to the end of Baggot street and take a right up the canal – absurd – and no one does it. And rightly so quite frankly.

    • #817011
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      To be honest when there is no real junction and no one crossing the street must cyclists will go forward.
      You are getting into all kinds of general bad traffic design decisions that are programmed around cars, but not in safe free moving around a city.
      Dublin has become over stuffed with traffic lights and poles in recent years mainly to control cars.

      Who knows how many millions Dublin City Council and their decisions have cost over the years. There is no sense that there has been a continuous record of integrated planning that strives to balance the needs of all who live and work in the city.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Exactly. I don’t get a sense of anyone watching the daily problems that most can see that cycle regularly in the city. There is a big difference in surveying a road route by car and getting out as a pedestrian or bike. And even then I’m not sure they have anyone watching out for these things. Most cyclists I know are constantly having to email and phone DCC about damage – If that is the way they want to do it, they should at least set up an automated reporting website to make the process easy. But really Dublin is tiny and it shouldn’t be necessary.

      I think reporting such damage to people who are not doing the job in the first places may be, in the case of DCC, a bit of a pointless exercise. People who are incompetent enough to make the mistakes in the first place are less likely to see those mistakes when they’re pointed out.

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Most problems, like the total lack of a cycle route around the East side of the Green could be fixed easily. It says buses only on the sign – but shouldn’t that be buses and bikes only? Everyone cycles that route to get to Earstfort tce > ranelagh/rathmines anyway. But if you ring them they tell you it is officially for busses only and you are supposed to go all the way to the end of Baggot street and take a right up the canal – absurd – and no one does it. And rightly so quite frankly.

      And for how many years and how many times have they been contacted about the same problem? Probably a few hundred times. All one of them has to do is walk the 20 minutes from Wood Quay to Stephens Green. Of course that would be followed by the scary hard part: making a decision.

      At the moment over 20,000 people a day cycle into Dublin. By 2020 the government plans to reach a target of 160,000 cycling to work daily. The city is not expanding like an elastic field to accommodate more and more traffic. The streets will not be any wider.

      How many cyclists will die or suffer injury as a result of those plans? How many people will suffer broken bones or have a nervous breakdown after seeing someone run over? To just simply pour more and more people into an unregulated situation where people will do whatever they want regardless is a recipe for disaster. Saying that the number of injuries and deaths is low is not much use to 2 children who have lost a parent even if the statistics are good overall. If you’re lying in a hospital with a brace screwed into either side of your skull to put tension on your spine being told you were in the right legally is not much comfort either.

    • #817012
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      It’s not as simple as that gintyc. …

      Yes, it is. There’s law breaking cyclists, pedestrian and motorists.

      You just can’t see that because you’re obsessed with cyclists. Don’t say you’re not because you’re not calling for “Pedestrian Wardens” — why not? More pedestrians break traffic lights in the city centre daily then there are cyclist — why no videos about pedestrians breaking lights? Why no videos about cars parked on footpaths, cycle lanes or blocking pedestrian crossings and other junctions?

      The Garda Traffic Corps was set up to tactical traffic only issues such as enforcement of the rules of the road.

      @FXR wrote:

      I contacted DCC to get clarification on exactly where it’s allowed to lock a bike and where not.

      I’ll make this clear: There is NO law stopping cyclist from using polls, trees or posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths.

      Cyclists have been locking their bicycles to polls, trees and posts in Dublin for over 100 years, it has been a non-issue and it still is.

      The city and national government wants more cyclists, if they don’t provide enough cycling parking stands, that’s their problem. It’s not really their problem as very few people at all view it as a problem.

      @FXR wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:

      Where has the cycling lobby demanded this? Can you point to one article?

      I’ll have to get back to you on that one gintyc. I’m sure if seen something to that effect but I’ve been through website after website and I’ve lost track.

      Have a better look at their website; their stated policy is that the money spent on the canals cycle track would be better spent on education and enforcement for all users – it’s on their website and it was mentioned in The Sunday Times too.

      @FXR wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:

      Cyclists don’t contribute to the economy? What on earth are you basing that on? :problem:

      There is no charge specific to cycling. Cyclists pay no road tax or licence fee. Cyclists don’t pay any fee for the provision of bike stands, there is no cycle lane tax (which for motorists is called road tax). A tax free bike scheme reduces the public income and increases public expenditure as show in the Dublin’s Bicycle clutter video. Whatever the arguments for the conditions it’s a fact that cyclists don’t contribute any funds specific to cycling to the economy.

      First you seem to be confusing “economy” with the State’s tax take.

      Secondly, there’s no such thing as “road tax”. Motorists pay motor tax, a bicycle has no motor and does no damage to roads compared to that done by cars and trucks.

      Most cyclists are also motorists and even the ones how do pay tax by other means. The idea of taxing people for cycling is unworkable for a number of reasons:

      Why should cyclists be the only group of people who pay road and path tax?

      Why would the government tax cyclists when it currently has tax incentives aimed at getting more people cycling?

      Why would you tax something that has a benefit to tax payer, has a benefit to the health service, which takes pressure off public transport and off congestion, which reduces emissions used, which reduces noise pollution, which frees up people’s money to be spent on the local economy rather than imports?

      How do cyclists prove they have paid or not? Do tourists have to pay? How do you prove you’re a tourist? Do teenagers have to pay? If not, will they have to carry around ID while cycling? Even with adults, do you propose that weekend and a few times a year cyclists pay as much 5-day-a-week cyclists? Would any payment and registration system be off putting to those who just cycle the odd time?

      @FXR wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:

      Actually cycling does not require any such additional facilities. People are and have been cycling for years without such. But the government wants to provide these additional facilities. Because they think that having more cyclists is good for the country, good for people’s health, good for the economy, good for the taxpayer, and good for environment.

      There’s the real root of the problem: politics in Ireland. Here is a facility provided specifically for cyclists….

      You’re quoting me but you’re not reading what I’m saying.

      You can’t blame all cyclists for facilities that the State provides.

      @FXR wrote:

      @FXR wrote:

      It’s a fact: cyclists in Dublin break every law every second of every day. The show no regard for pedestrians, other road users and endanger themselves.

      @gintyc wrote:

      No, that’s not a fact.
      It’s only a fact that some cyclist break the law, and only some of them have no respect for anybody. Just like some pedestrians and motorists do the same and some have no respect for anybody.

      I’m afraid it’s a fact. I’ve tested that statement over and over. I’ve got this recorded and viewable evidence and if anyone can provide similar evidence to contradict it be my guest;

      [/quote]

      I’m a cyclist. I cycle in Dublin. Like many others I don’t break the law. I guess there’s two choice here: You’re wrong or you are calling me a layer and a law breaker.

      You have not proven that all cyclists in Dublin always break the law, only that some cyclists often break the law. Just like some motorists and some pedestrian often break the law.

      And again, you’re obsessed with cyclists. Why?

      @FXR wrote:

      Cycle lanes cost up to 1.6 million per kilometre (see Sunday Times article by Ciara Healy 29/05/2011 page 8)

      No the article, said that cycle lanes can cost up to that amount, not that all of them do.

      @FXR wrote:

      This is the Sean O’Casey bridge: it is surrounded by the best cycle lanes in the city. Cyclists simply ignore the cycle lanes and use the pedestrian bridge.

      This clearly shows that you don’t know what you’re taking about.

      The Sean O’Casey Bridge is surrounded by some of most disjointed and poorly designed cycle lanes in the city and pedestrians walk all over them all the time.

      “FXR” wrote:
      At the moment over 20,000 people a day cycle into Dublin. By 2020 the government plans to reach a target of 160,000 cycling to work daily. The city is not expanding like an elastic field to accommodate more and more traffic. The streets will not be any wider.

      Have you noticed bicycles are quite small? Don’t worry, far more than 160,000 a day would be able to fit.

      “FXR” wrote:
      How many cyclists will die or suffer injury as a result of those plans? How many people will suffer broken bones or have a nervous breakdown after seeing someone run over? To just simply pour more and more people into an unregulated situation where people will do whatever they want regardless is a recipe for disaster. Saying that the number of injuries and deaths is low is not much use to 2 children who have lost a parent even if the statistics are good overall. If you’re lying in a hospital with a brace screwed into either side of your skull to put tension on your spine being told you were in the right legally is not much comfort either.

      Cycling has been on the increase for years now in Dublin, yet your doom and gloom has not happened and there’s no signs of it happening.

      What has happened is as the numbers of cyclists has increased the number of deaths and injuries has decreased – it’s called safety in numbers.

    • #817013
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Saw a cycle-cop ‘police’ the junction at Portobello Bridge this morning for the first time ever.

      He just stood there at the traffic lights where cyclist usually barrel up the canal and crowd out the junction blocking the pedestrian crossing. Half a dozen bikers nearly rear-ended each other with the sudden realisation that the white line was being observed.

      The cop then peddled off and normal practice resumed.

      Just an observation, I’m not getting involved in this.

    • #817014
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Garda traffic corps would be wrong to prioritise low risk over high risk activities.

      97 people have been killed on Irish roads this year but just one (in Limerick city) was a cyclist. That incident was a collision between a cyclist and a car and we don’t yet know who was at fault.

      Many more people are cycling in Dublin now. Many of the 5,000 ‘Dublin bikes’ trips undertaken are by inexperienced cyclists. Yet far fewer cyclists are being killed. So this is not the area to prioritise.

      Many people reading this forum pay motor tax, use a bike and also buses and trains. It’s simplistic to divide society into cyclists and drivers like animals in the zoo. The state doesn’t lose any of my motor tax when I ride my bike but there are health benefits and a reduction in congestion and emissions and energy use.

      Dublin city council has helped remove many of the trucks from the city through the 5-axle ban. It introduced lower speed limits in the city centre and banned cars from college green. So more people are cycling and fewer people are being killed which constitutes a success to most people. Fewer people cycle in Dublin than in comparable European cities so there is still some distance to travel.

      Laws should of course be enforced but it would be wrong to direct resources in an inefficient manner. Cyclists present a danger to themselves more than they endanger other people. The primary purpose of the gardai is to protect citizens from other people, not from themselves. Education is probably a better approach.

    • #817015
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      ‘. . . . . there are health benefits [ when I ride my bike ] . . . .’

      There are health benefits, provided you don’t get creamed by a truck turning left

    • #817016
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      I’ll make this clear: There is NO law stopping cyclist from using polls, trees or posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths.

      If you’d be so good gintyc, can you point out exactly where in the video Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter it says “bicycles are illegally locked to poles etc”. Where and at what point and can you quote the statement as it appears in the video.

      Also since you know the law on this issue can you provide the reference to the law that states specifically that bicycles can be locked to poles, trees and posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths?

    • #817017
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      Garda traffic corps would be wrong to prioritise low risk over high risk activities.

      Based on talking to a few dozen Gardai this is the situation: for a Garda to prosecute a cyclists for a minor offence he would have to issue a summons. This would require a day in court. There is also problem of actually obtaining a valid ID at the time of the offence or failing that requiring a cyclists to accompany the Garda to the station. In other words the situation as it stands is a farce. Who on earth would want the entire dwindling Garda force tied up court dealing with cyclists.

      The people to blame are those tasked with running the city. If there is a problem then it should reflect the nature of the offence. Controlling cyclists in regard to cycling in pedestrian areas and on footpaths should be in the hands of cycle wardens or it should just be legalised. To put this in context, today I watched a group of people dealing drugs on a city street in broad daylight. Two uniformed Gardai walked by them. One guy flung the bag of tabs under a car. The two Gardai just kept going.

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      97 people have been killed on Irish roads this year but just one (in Limerick city) was a cyclist. That incident was a collision between a cyclist and a car and we don’t yet know who was at fault.
      Many more people are cycling in Dublin now. Many of the 5,000 ‘Dublin bikes’ trips undertaken are by inexperienced cyclists. Yet far fewer cyclists are being killed. So this is not the area to prioritise.

      The figure last quoted in the Independent for people cycling into Dublin was 20,000 per day. Given the continuing increase in cyclists combined with the badly maintained roads, badly designed or absent cycle lanes and total lack of regulation and training do you think it’s more likely that one or more cyclists are going to be killed or injured?

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      Laws should of course be enforced but it would be wrong to direct resources in an inefficient manner. Cyclists present a danger to themselves more than they endanger other people. The primary purpose of the gardai is to protect citizens from other people, not from themselves. Education is probably a better approach.

      The first people I contacted were cycling interests and those who appear to represent cycling. At first some suggested showing the photos as a cycling education slideshow. That would be fine by me. As the picture broadened and the evidence mounted the replies started to die off and then just about stopped all together.

      Incidentally the reason for using still photos and blocking out the faces of the cyclists were based on advice by a friend in the Garda. By doing it in that manner no cyclists could be identified and even if they were the fact that it’s a still photo means it’s not evidence of movement and therefore can’t be the basis of a prosecution. It’s not about the individual cyclists it’s more so about the people who should be running the city.

      I still think, as unlikely as it seems, that the only way cyclists behaviour will change is for cyclist to take it upon themselves to make it happen. In this country I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the powers that be to catch up.

    • #817018
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:

      I’ll make this clear: There is NO law stopping cyclist from using polls, trees or posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths.

      If you’d be so good gintyc, can you point out exactly where in the video Dublin’s Bicycle Clutter it says “bicycles are illegally locked to poles etc”. Where and at what point and can you quote the statement as it appears in the video.

      I never said it appears in your videos, I was replying to your post.

      @FXR wrote:

      Also since you know the law on this issue can you provide the reference to the law that states specifically that bicycles can be locked to poles, trees and posts as long as they are not blocking footpaths?

      That’s generally not the way the law works. There’s nowhere in legislation that says specifically says you can or cannot lock bikes to polls.

      Again: It’s a non-issue.

      @gunter wrote:

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      ‘. . . . . there are health benefits [ when I ride my bike ] . . . .’

      There are health benefits, provided you don’t get creamed by a truck turning left

      That’s like saying walking is good for you providing you don’t get knocked down crossing the road. The small chance of getting knock crossing a road is not a reason not to walk. Nor is the small chance of getting hit by a truck — just like crossing the road you act carefully.

      @FXR wrote:

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      Garda traffic corps would be wrong to prioritise low risk over high risk activities.

      Based on talking to a few dozen Gardai this is the situation…

      Asking all the different gardai you meet on the street about anything they’d likely have many different views. Asking random, rank and file gardai or other non-traffic corps officers about traffic issues is about as much value as a random newspaper voxpop — that is to say there is very little value.

      @FXR wrote:

      for a Garda to prosecute a cyclists for a minor offence he would have to issue a summons. This would require a day in court. There is also problem of actually obtaining a valid ID at the time of the offence or failing that requiring a cyclists to accompany the Garda to the station. In other words the situation as it stands is a farce. Who on earth would want the entire dwindling Garda force tied up court dealing with cyclists.

      The important bit here is “minor offence” – it’s minor. If a garda wants to tackle a minor offence he or she already has a number of options such as warning somebody or issuing them with an ASBO.

      As for “obtaining a valid ID” – that’s a non-issue. The problem is the same for a normal pedestrians or drunks late on a Friday night. Anyway, any decent garda (which most of them are) will have a good idea if they are being told the truth or being fed a pack of lies.

      As already said: The reason there’s little enforcement of traffic laws regarding cycling is that most of them are minor, and it’s not just cyclists: There’s also little enforcement pedestrians breaking lights and things like motorists speeding in the city centre, motorists parking on footpaths or cycle lanes, and the problems mostly at rush hour of motorists blocking pedestrian crossings, advance stop lines for cyclists and junctions in general. Sadly, in the grand scale of things that the Traffic Corps has to handle, these things are mostly minor to them.

      @FXR wrote:

      Controlling cyclists in regard to cycling in pedestrian areas and on footpaths should be in the hands of cycle wardens or it should just be legalised.

      Are we also going to have pedestrian wardens to find pedestrian who illegally cross at lights? Why are you obsessed with cyclists?

      I’ve ended up with a minor but recurring injury because of a pedestrian illegally crossing at lights near the Spire. It was witnessed by a garda and she gave him an ASBO — I tried to explain myself for hitting him, she stopped me and said the pedestrian was totally in the wrong.

      When are you going to make videos of pedestrians breaking lights?

      @FXR wrote:

      The figure last quoted in the Independent for people cycling into Dublin was 20,000 per day. Given the continuing increase in cyclists combined with the badly maintained roads, badly designed or absent cycle lanes and total lack of regulation and training do you think it’s more likely that one or more cyclists are going to be killed or injured?

      This may sound strange but: Less and less people are likely to be killed or injured. As I’ve already said, the numbers of people cycling has been growing for years now and the numbers killed and injured is in decline.

      As per this peer-reviewed paper (one of many on this subject) in the BMJ’s Injury Prevention journal:

      Results: The likelihood that a given person walking or bicycling will be struck by a motorist varies inversely with the amount of walking or bicycling. This pattern is consistent across communities of varying size, from specific intersections to cities and countries, and across time periods.

      Discussion: This result is unexpected. Since it is unlikely that the people walking and bicycling become more cautious if their numbers are larger, it indicates that the behavior of motorists controls the likelihood of collisions with people walking and bicycling. It appears that motorists adjust their behavior in the presence of people walking and bicycling. There is an urgent need for further exploration of the human factors controlling motorist behavior in the presence of people walking and bicycling.

      Conclusion: A motorist is less likely to collide with a person walking and bicycling if more people walk or bicycle. Policies that increase the numbers of people walking and bicycling appear to be an effective route to improving the safety of people walking and bicycling.

      http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/9/3/205.abstract

      Also: There’s already far more than 20,000 cyclists in Dublin per day, that figure you mention is likely only those at peek morning times. There’s 5,000+ trips on Dublin Bikes per day alone.

      @FXR wrote:

      I still think, as unlikely as it seems, that the only way cyclists behaviour will change is for cyclist to take it upon themselves to make it happen. In this country I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the powers that be to catch up.

      You seem to think we’re all friends and it’s all one big club. We don’t all know each other and it’s not one big club. Being a cyclist is just like being a pedestrian or motorist, people are not responsible for the behaviour of others.

    • #817019
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FXR would you rather be hit by a tram bus car or bicycle?

      Cyclist dies after Dublin city crash
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0622/breaking63.html

      Life sentence?

      A woman has been struck and killed by a tram on St Kilda Road this morning.

    • #817020
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Dublin City Council installed a number of D shaped loops on signposts aroundlWicklow Street/Drury Street, to encourage people to lock their bikes to them.
      In Cambridge bicycles and pedestrian seem to be able to share surfaces without apparent problems and there are millions of bikes strewn everywhere without detracting from the charm of the place.

    • #817021
      Paul Clerkin
      Keymaster

      This is a great idea

      Bike-Part Vending Machine Arrives in Minneapolis

      Minneapolis was named the country’s number one city for biking last year by Bicycling magazine, but the city’s bike community isn’t resting on its laurels. Looking to make Minneapolis even more welcoming to cyclists, local entrepreneurs recently opened the city’s first self-service bicycle repair kiosk, to serve the flat tubes and busted gears of the thousands of cyclists who travel Minneapolis’s bike paths each week. The kiosk, called Bike Fixtation, offers basic bike tools, a repair stand, and a vending machine full of useful goodies, including tubes, lights, patch kits, and snacks

      http://www.good.is/post/minneapolis-gets-a-self-service-bike-repair-kiosk/

    • #817022
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cyclist dies after Dublin city crash
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing63.html

      Bloody typical. Westmoreland street strikes again. Widest street in in the country and they can’t even manage to put a cycle lane in it. I hope a ghost bike will be in place. RIP.

    • #817023
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      who has control of the streets DCC or the national roads authority?
      How can DCC say they are planners of dublin when they dont control the roads?
      What kind of payouts do the family get from the roads authority in some western countries 5 million might be reasonable.

    • #817024
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Cyclist dies after Dublin city crash
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing63.html

      Bloody typical. Westmoreland street strikes again. Widest street in in the country and they can’t even manage to put a cycle lane in it. I hope a ghost bike will be in place. RIP.

      typical piss poor irish times reporting.

      1. what happened?
      2. cyclist drunk?
      3. cyclist wearing high vis?
      4. cyclist with lights on bike?
      5. taxi driver drunk?
      6. taxi driver on a 20 hour shift?

      no details no nothing etc etc etc

      the thing that always amazes me in ireland is that there is always great outrage about deaths on the road but never, ever, are we told that the people died under the influence of drink or drugs or the inability to drive on the correct side of the road etc etc

    • #817025
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      mr environment has nothing to say? It’s just like college 21?

    • #817026
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Dublin’s bicycle ghost riders.

    • #817027
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Cyclist dies after Dublin city crash
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing63.html

      Bloody typical. Westmoreland street strikes again. Widest street in in the country and they can’t even manage to put a cycle lane in it. I hope a ghost bike will be in place. RIP.

      I’ve spoken to a motorist who arrived on the scene only a few cars back from the fatal accident. According to him the cyclists was on a DCC rental bike. As far as he could make out there were three people on DCC bikes. I’m not sure if that was in any of the newspaper reports. You can see cyclists taking the most stupid risks on Westmoreland street on any day of the week.

    • #817028
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Cyclist dies after Dublin city crash
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing63.html

      Bloody typical. Westmoreland street strikes again. Widest street in in the country and they can’t even manage to put a cycle lane in it. I hope a ghost bike will be in place. RIP.

      I’ve spoken to a motorist who arrived on the scene only a few cars back from the fatal accident. According to him the cyclists was on a DCC rental bike. As far as he could make out there were three people on DCC bikes. I’m not sure if that was in any of the newspaper reports. You can see cyclists taking the most stupid risks on Westmoreland street on any day of the week.

      Frank, is there any line you won’t cross in your anger against cyclists?

      Just because he was a cyclists does that stop you from maintaining decency and even a little respect for the dead person and their family?

      On that streets you can also see drivers driving recklessly around cyclists every day of the week, but speculation one way or another isn’t helpful to anybody. You could at least wait for the results of the inquest before trying to assign blame.

    • #817029
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      Frank, is there any line you won’t cross in your anger against cyclists?

      Just because he was a cyclists does that stop you from maintaining decency and even a little respect for the dead person and their family?

      On that streets you can also see drivers driving recklessly around cyclists every day of the week, but speculation one way or another isn’t helpful to anybody. You could at least wait for the results of the inquest before trying to assign blame.

      Well gee whiz you seem to have missed the post before mine which, among a list of possibilities, speculated on whether the cyclists might have been drunk. Was your high horse having a day off when you read that one? If you actually read what I wrote you’d be able to figure out I didn’t actually assign any blame to anyone involved.

      You also missed the post which actually shows cyclists doing one of the most stupid things you can do on a bicycle filmed on Westmoreland St. You don’t have any comment on that one? Why not? Is reality a bit inconvenient when it comes to the reckless behaviour of cyclists as shown in the video?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQSGIU46cBE

    • #817030
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Frank, take a bit of responsibly for your own posts. You’re linking “cyclists taking the most stupid risks on Westmoreland street on any day of the week” to the death of one cyclist when you don’t know what or who was to blame.

      The other poster seems to be mainly criticising the lack of detail reported, but yes, I suppose he’s wrong too. Also, as you said “a list of possibilities” — not just pointing to one which you were doing.

      Unlike your nonsense about bicycle clutter, on cyclists not using lights and many of them foolishly thinking high-vis is as good — I 100% agree with you. Gardai should regularly clamp down on cyclists without lights and direct them to walk home and anybody caught not walking should have their bikes taken off them until they turn up at a station with lights. I also think it should be mandatory to have to sell lights with bicycles.

      BTW I also generally agree with you about cyclists on footpaths — it’s very annoying and even more so when I have my baby with me. But you tend to go overboard.

      But linking other cyclists’ actions to the death of one is wrong. A bit of respect and perspective and a bit less blind anger would go a long way.

    • #817031
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      Frank, take a bit of responsibly for your own posts. You’re linking “cyclists taking the most stupid risks on Westmoreland street on any day of the week” to the death of one cyclist when you don’t know what or who was to blame.

      The other poster seems to be mainly criticising the lack of detail reported, but yes, I suppose he’s wrong too. Also, as you said “a list of possibilities” — not just pointing to one which you were doing.

      Unlike your nonsense about bicycle clutter, on cyclists not using lights and many of them foolishly thinking high-vis is as good — I 100% agree with you. Gardai should regularly clamp down on cyclists without lights and direct them to walk home and anybody caught not walking should have their bikes taken off them until they turn up at a station with lights. I also think it should be mandatory to have to sell lights with bicycles.

      BTW I also generally agree with you about cyclists on footpaths — it’s very annoying and even more so when I have my baby with me. But you tend to go overboard.

      But linking other cyclists’ actions to the death of one is wrong. A bit of respect and perspective and a bit less blind anger would go a long way.

      The fact is all the videos taken together show that there is no regulation of cycling in Ireland neither do cyclists take any responsibility for themselves or have any regard for other road users or pedestrians.

      I’ve looked at DCC rental bikes. On the handlebar surround of the bike there is a notice in small print that says “you must obey the rules of he road”. Anyone can get on a bike without the merest notion of the rules of the road or any idea of how traffic behaves. It’s not much use giving people notice that they should obey rules that they are not obliged to know in the first place. It would cost next to nothing to have a flyer or a notice at each station outlining what behaviour is undesirable and even listing fines:fine for cycling on a footpath €140.

      The Gardai are not the solution. In fact any of the behaviour shown in the videos is common among bicycle Gardai as well. It’s also a mistake (which I made myself) to assume that Gardai on bicycles are there to police cyclists. They don’t seem to thing so. In the video Ghosts Riders a member of one of the cycling groups has pointed out that the Garda on the bike legally should have had the strobe light attached to the front of his bike and not to his jacket.

      Cycling should be taken out of the hands of the Gardai when it comes to all surfaces off road. DCC should appoint cycle wardens with the power to issue on the spot fines and to educate cyclists. The crappy joke that pass for cycle lanes should be policed. In the video you’ll notice the Garda on the bike did not actually fine or move the illegally parked taxi in Westmoreland St. You’ll also notice earlier in the video the illegally parked taxi’s on Lwr O’Connell street. In two years I’ve yet to see even one of them get a fine or even be moved on. They’re there every night. As I’ve said before this all comes back down to the shower who are supposed to be running the city. In the meantime the situation would improve if cyclists took responsibility for themselves and cycling bodies and lobby groups spent some time focusing on how cyclists behave instead of just pouring more and more onto the roads and footpaths.

    • #817032
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:


      Frank, is there any line you won’t cross in your anger against cyclists?

      you are confusing FXR with me. Unless FXR is also a Frank.

      FXR: your ire might be better directed towards taxi drivers who endanger other peoples lives rather than just their own.

    • #817033
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:


      Frank, is there any line you won’t cross in your anger against cyclists?

      you are confusing FXR with me. Unless FXR is also a Frank.

      FXR: your ire might be better directed towards taxi drivers who endanger other peoples lives rather than just their own.

      Cyclists are endangering other peoples lives as well as their own. Taxi’s are subject to far more regulation (though not enough) than cyclists. A three year old on a pedestrian street is at risk of serious injury from cyclists who seem to think they can go anywhere the feel like. Blind people on footpaths shouldn’t have to have the additional hazard of cyclists to deal with either. Pedestrian bridges are for pedestrians. A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won’t be unaffected by it. Cyclists in Dublin overwhelmingly obey no laws, no rules or regulations and have no regard for anyone else. That’s what happens when the people supposedly running the city don’t do their job.

    • #817034
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cyclists in Dublin overwhelmingly obey no laws, no rules or regulations and have no regard for anyone else.

      Absolute nonsense. The vast majority of cyclists obey the rules of the road and are very responsible.

    • #817035
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FXR,

      This “cyclists are the enemy” attitude is getting old and very tiresome.

      I honestly can’t think of ever hearing of any incident of a cyclist knocking down a 3 year old child or a blind person on a footpath. That being said I have personally encountered plenty of pedestrians who, just because they don’t hear a car coming, don’t bother to look and just step out to cross the road, which could be far more damaging to an on-coming cyclist than the pedestrian. I’ve also noticed that many drivers (not just professional ones) seem to regard cyclists, no matter how fast they are going, as a gap in traffic, and a good opportunity to pull out.

      Your argument is becoming more ridiculous and insulting to the majority of responsible cyclists.

    • #817036
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Frank Taylor wrote:

      @gintyc wrote:


      Frank, is there any line you won’t cross in your anger against cyclists?

      you are confusing FXR with me. Unless FXR is also a Frank.

      He is also a Frank. I’ll call him by his user name to stop any confusion…

      @FXR wrote:

      Cyclists are endangering other peoples lives as well as their own. Taxi’s are subject to far more regulation (though not enough) than cyclists.

      If “not enough” is being done about taxi drivers misbehaving, why are you not suggesting they should have wardens to ticket them?

      @FXR wrote:

      Cyclists in Dublin overwhelmingly obey no laws, no rules or regulations and have no regard for anyone else.

      No more than pedestrians. See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j66ewsKIhuU

      Or motorists:

      Study: More than 90% of drivers break speed limits – http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/study-more-than-90-of-drivers-break-speed-limits-498907.html#ixzz1RnyQzJx4

      More than half of motorists admit to speeding regularly – http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/more-than-half-of-motorists-admit-to-speeding-regularly-304288.html#ixzz1RnyjCzsh

      53.8% of motorists surveyed admitted to using a handheld mobile phones – http://blog.aaireland.ie/index.php/2011/02/28/road-safety/aa-reports-increase-in-drivers-using-mobile-phones

      40.7% of those surveyed said they text while driving (same as last link)

      What new city-centre speed limit? 97% of motorists ignore traffic law – http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2010/mar/14/what-new-city-centre-speed-limit-97-of-motorists-i/

      @FXR wrote:

      That’s what happens when the people supposedly running the city don’t do their job.

      [/quote]

      No mater how much you’d like to think otherwise, the city council are not responsible for road traffic law (besides parking), it’s up to the Gardai and only them.

    • #817037
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @davidarthurs wrote:

      Absolute nonsense. The vast majority of cyclists obey the rules of the road and are very responsible.

      Fair play for tying to inject some humour into the discussion with a bit of irony.

    • #817038
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      What pedestrians/taxi drivers/shoplifters or anyone else does is irrelevant. If a barrister tried that defence in court he’d be laughed out of it. The fact is cyclists in Dublin continually disregard the traffic laws, use pedestrianised areas, footpaths and lock their bikes to anything and everything. The chances of a cyclist being fined or summonsed are practically nil. A citizen buying a Euro millions ticket on a Friday has more chance of winning than a cyclists has of being fined for breaking the law.

      I have a list of videos that back this up: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE163314E30669D7B On top of that I’m in the centre of the city every day of the week from one side to the other. Anyone can see cyclists breaking every law there is, every day. If anyone wants to provide any evidence to the contrary then put it up. It’s nonsensical to pretend that cyclists are not breaking the law, invading pedestrian spaces and endangering themselves and others all day every day in Dublin city. Nobody’s running the show. Illegal taxi ranks, parking in bicycle lanes, etc etc are all just sympthoms of the same problem. The me, me, me attitude displayed by cyclists rather than facing reality and taking responsibility for their own actions just adds to the problem.

    • #817039
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      And as if there wasn’t enough evidence a friend of mine shot this last night. She was crossing O’Connell street and stalled for a few minutes. What is in the video took about 7 minutes in real time.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yKp5MG1Zg

    • #817040
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      What pedestrians/taxi drivers/shoplifters or anyone else does is irrelevant. If a barrister tried that defence in court he’d be laughed out of it.

      But it’s not irrelevant. We’re not in court and I’m not defending the law-breaking cyclists – as I said already they should be stopped by the Gardai and their bikes should be taken off them if they try to get back on them in the dark without lights.

      You’re proposing wardens to fine cyclists. It would be a good idea to also look at fines for pedestrians and others at the same time. Far more pedestrians break the law every day – it’s best to put resources into fixing the largest problem first and — by your mesures — that’s pedestrians.

      And you your self said in your post above that the problems are linked – You said: “Illegal taxi ranks, parking in bicycle lanes, etc etc are all just sympthoms of the same problem.”

      @FXR wrote:

      The fact is cyclists in Dublin continually disregard the traffic laws, use pedestrianised areas, footpaths and lock their bikes to anything and everything.

      Some cyclists do, others don’t. If you want to state otherwise I’ll take it that you’re accusing me of breaking the law.

      And – as you’ve already been told – there’s no law stopping cyclists from locking their bikes to sign poll, lamps, trees etc.

      @FXR wrote:

      The me, me, me attitude displayed by cyclists rather than facing reality and taking responsibility for their own actions just adds to the problem.

      I can’t wait until law breaking cyclists take responsibility for their actions…. I’m also waiting for pedestrians and motorists to do the same.

      @FXR wrote:

      And as if there wasn’t enough evidence a friend of mine shot this last night. She was crossing O’Connell street and stalled for a few minutes. What is in the video took about 7 minutes in real time.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yKp5MG1Zg

      But it’s not 7mins in real time – it’s an edited video. And did you spot all the j-walking pedestrians???!!!

      Anyway, you don’t need more “evidence” – everybody can agree that many cyclists break the law – just like many pedestrians and motorists do the same. There’s a need for better enforcement for all. You’re just obsesed with one for some unknown reason.

    • #817041
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Not it’s not “many” cyclists who break the law it’s the vast majority of cyclists who break the law. I’ve provided the evidence to prove it.

      If you can provide evidence to the contrary then do it. In other words put up or shut up.

    • #817042
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      @FXR wrote:

      Anyway, you don’t need more “evidence” – everybody can agree that many cyclists break the law – just like many pedestrians and motorists do the same. There’s a need for better enforcement for all. You’re just obsesed with one for some unknown reason.

      gityc – the excuse that pedestrians and motorists do it too so that’s ok is lame in the extreme.

      This is about the behaviour of cyclists – don’t try to water it down

      it’s pretty simple – if you want to put your side forward post a 5 minute video of one spot in dublin showing how cyclists obey the rules of the road. i.e. do exactly the opposite of FXR.

      In fact – as you’re so confident – post an unedited one and we’ll be really impressed.

    • #817043
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @gintyc wrote:

      But it’s not 7mins in real time – it’s an edited video. And did you spot all the j-walking pedestrians???!!!

      I think you’re evidence averse. No matter how much evidence is put before you it’s just not enough.

      But I could be wrong so here’s a test.

      The following piece of video is unedited. It’s 1 minute 45 seconds shot on O’Connell street. So can you look at it and tell us how many cyclists are in the video and of that number how many do not have any lights, inadequate lighting or badly positioned lighting? This is 1.45 seconds of cycling in Dublin where you can see the same as anyone what is happening and make whatever comments you choose.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxmr7YqWYYE

    • #817044
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won’t be unaffected by it.

      Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

      I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.

    • #817045
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @cheezypuf wrote:

      @FXR wrote:

      A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won’t be unaffected by it.

      Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

      I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.

      You ought to be careful who you go calling a fool especially when you blunder into the middle of a discussion after four pages.
      No one actually died so it’s not an announcement. You can spare me the opportunistic faux indignation over something completely imaginary. If a graphic of what might happen puts even one cyclists off doing something as idiotic and dangerous as cycling the wrong way into traffic then it may serve a purpose. They do it ever day and there is the evidence to show this right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU There in no city centre street I can thing of that I haven’t seen a cyclist going the wrong way on. Cycling without lights at night is just as dangerous and if you do it you’re an idiot plain and simple.

      It’s common among cyclists to claim that cyclists are only endangering themselves and any motorists involved in a collision with a cyclists will always be completely unscathed. That’s a myth. I know people who were mentally scarred, had nervous breakdowns and some who never drove again for years. There is also the fact that a bloody accident may be witnessed by anyone from the old to the young. There are also the ambulance and fire services who have to scrape body parts off the road as part of their job.

      Have you ever seen a cyclist get killed?

    • #817046
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @cheezypuf wrote:

      @FXR wrote:

      A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won’t be unaffected by it.

      Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

      I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.

      FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives

    • #817047
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

      Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn’t it read “Dublin’s Automobile Clutter”? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that’s roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen’s Green.

      Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)

    • #817048
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @spoil_sport wrote:

      So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

      Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn’t it read “Dublin’s Automobile Clutter”? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that’s roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen’s Green.

      Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)

      It’s not a case of the odd cyclist acting recklessly or a few occasions where cyclists mount the footpath to avoid a dangerous situation. In Dublin the vast majority of cyclists go from A to B by the most convenient route regardless of pedestrian areas, rules of the road or the safety of themselves or anyone else. Not one person has provided any evidence to the contrary. The thread is not called Dublin,s Automotive clutter for the same reason it’s not called Dublin’s Georgian Façades.

      Motorists in Dublin pay thousands of euro in taxes, levies and have a myriad of rules and regulations to deal with. If cars were not necessary a lot less people would buy them. The bicycle will never completely replace the car. Pretty soon the powers that be are going to bring in a congestion charge. That still will not take all the cars out of Dublin city centre. There are not enough underpasses or bypassing bridges and not enough space.

      Forcing people onto bicycles sounds like Pol Pot decreeing it’s back to Year of the Two Wheels. Public transport in Dublin is inadequate to say the least. Dublin does not have a uBahn and the bus timetables seem at times to have been written by Hans Christian Anderson. As bad as it is bus routes are being reduced and as is the number of buses on those routes that remain. Most people don’t have jobs where they can arrive soaked to the skin neither can they carry their goods safely on a bicycle. Dublins roads are badly maintained, badly planned, cramped and not regulated enough. Cycle lanes are badly planned to the point of being a joke and drivers park in them while many lanes even pass through bus stops. On top of all this the majority of cyclists do everything they can to make things as dangerous as possible for themselves and others.

      In this video you can even see where all the elements combine just in one busy little side street:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi10h5sySkE

    • #817049
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @spoil_sport wrote:

      So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

      Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn’t it read “Dublin’s Automobile Clutter”? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that’s roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen’s Green.

      Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)

    • #817050
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @wearnicehats wrote:

      FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives

      That’s a matter of opinion not of fact. It’s not an opinion I share. He’s put up various videos of cyclists behaving badly. If any of the rest of us had as little to do with our time we could post videos of other road users doing the same. What is an indisputable fact is that some cyclists behave dangerously, some don’t. The same can be said for taxis, busses, pedestrians, motorists, unicyclists, hovercraft operators and all the other people that move around our streets. His perverse obsession with deamonising and ranting about the evils of cyclists is childish and devoid of any useful purpose.

      Whether it’s a lust for cycling taxation, describing them as suicidal or whining about having to see locked bicycles in public it’s clear the issue is he hates cyclists and is not open to discussion. There’s not much to talk about as FXR has no meaningful solutions to the problems he highlights apart from sending all cyclists to Leitrim and floating it off the coast. It’s always a shame when someone becomes so blinded by their obsession they loose the ability to make a contribution.

    • #817051
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @cheezypuf wrote:

      @wearnicehats wrote:

      FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives

      That’s a matter of opinion not of fact. It’s not an opinion I share. He’s put up various videos of cyclists behaving badly. If any of the rest of us had as little to do with our time we could post videos of other road users doing the same. What is an indisputable fact is that some cyclists behave dangerously, some don’t. The same can be said for taxis, busses, pedestrians, motorists, unicyclists, hovercraft operators and all the other people that move around our streets. His perverse obsession with deamonising and ranting about the evils of cyclists is childish and devoid of any useful purpose.

      You seem to have comprehension problem with evidence. What I observe every day in the city which is that the majority of cyclist in Dublin go from A to B with no regard for laws, pedestrian areas, regulations, their own safety or the safety of others, is backed up by an ample body of evidence. What is a fact about cyclists behaviour is not contradicted or refuted by any amount of behaviour by anyone else. All you can come up with is vague opinions that you haven’t backed up with anything at all. Rather childishly you think you can just make unreferenced statements, immature jibes, snide small minded remarks and imagine they form some sort of argument on their own. They don’t.
      @cheezypuf wrote:

      Whether it’s a lust for cycling taxation, describing them as suicidal or whining about having to see locked bicycles in public it’s clear the issue is he hates cyclists and is not open to discussion. There’s not much to talk about as FXR has no meaningful solutions to the problems he highlights apart from sending all cyclists to Leitrim and floating it off the coast. It’s always a shame when someone becomes so blinded by their obsession they loose the ability to make a contribution.

      You’d be better off to read a thread before crashing into the tail end making ill informed cheese puff statements like that. Since you’re accusing me of not proposing any solutions then I take it you’ll eat your words like a big boy if that’s shown to be incorrect? Railing like a scalded cat because the evidence is too hard to take won’t save any lives or solve any problems. It’s also more than a bit dumb to be making out there are no problems with the way cyclists behave and then start crowing about “meaningful solutions” before going off into imaginary scenarios that you’ve manufactured all on your own. If you’d looked at the videos and then checked the list of other videos you’d see there are a whole range of subjects covered all to do with Dublin. If anyone is blinded or obsessed here it’s you. Hopefully you’ll never progress from a bicycle to a HGV because if you do we’er all in trouble.

    • #817052
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The road traffic management system has been made for cars only with virtually no regard to cyclists. This is in evidence in the following respects.

      1. One way roads are one way in order to manage motorised vehicle traffic. No contra-flow is evidence of lack of consideration for the existence of cyclists.

      2. There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles

      3. Cyclists cannot negotiate traffic the same way cars can as they cannot move at the same speed. You can’t pull out two lanes in order to make a right turn. The only way to do this legally is to dismount and walk; in effect, to turn yourself into a pedestrian.

      The road that I cycle into town (R118) is also a bus lane, which both the bus and the cyclist can’t both fit into. The bus can’t overtake when the road is full of traffic jams, which it always is during rush hour. The only practical solution is to try and cycle onto the path (which is sparsely populated and it is completely safe to do this – in my opinion) and let the bus pass.

      On any normal road, even when not on a cycle lane, parked cars force you to pull out and usually to do this safely means you have to slow down and look behind you or stop completely.

      This is ridiculous.

      I am a cyclist who also drives and pays motor tax on two different cars. How dare you patronise people who cycle by implying that you are paying for their existence on the road!

      As I drive often too, I realise that cyclists can be annoying even when they are obeying the law – especially when they are obeying the law- as they are much slower than cars (understandably), they get in the way when you are trying to turn left (as most of them have considerately kept to the left side of the road, and many other reasons.
      However all of this is irrelevant as none of it is the fault of cyclists.

      This road tax paying citizen says: Roads are not exclusively for cars!
      Where the hell did you get the idea that roads are for cars only in the first place?

      FXR, your entire attitude is so very wrong in this respect and many others.

      Why don’t you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as “the lycra crowd”?

      Do you not accept that for every cyclist breaking the law, there are plenty motorists breaking them too? Motorists break the law in heavy, metal objects that travel at high speed.

      You say that you realise how dangerous it is to be a cyclist in Dublin. You say that it is because of this that you don’t cycle in Dublin. But then you ignore that point.
      What about it? Do you think it’s acceptable that Dublin should be so dangerous for cyclists? It seems as if you do, given the fact that you do not develop upon your statement.

      I found it hilarious that you wrote that you were “too tired” to address GrahamH’s entire post, and then proceeded to blather on for so long. Who are you anyway, that you are declining radio programmes? Why is your opinion so sought after?

      You are right to decline the radio programme anyway as your loathsome self-importance and the massive chip on your shoulder would be obvious.

      As would your disinterest in engaging in any real discussion about it.

    • #817053
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

    • #817059
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Satrastar wrote:

      The road traffic management system has been made for cars only with virtually no regard to cyclists. This is in evidence in the following respects.
      1. One way roads are one way in order to manage motorised vehicle traffic. No contra-flow is evidence of lack of consideration for the existence of cyclists.

      2. There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles

      3. Cyclists cannot negotiate traffic the same way cars can as they cannot move at the same speed. You can’t pull out two lanes in order to make a right turn. The only way to do this legally is to dismount and walk; in effect, to turn yourself into a pedestrian.
      The road that I cycle into town (R118) is also a bus lane, which both the bus and the cyclist can’t both fit into. The bus can’t overtake when the road is full of traffic jams, which it always is during rush hour. The only practical solution is to try and cycle onto the path (which is sparsely populated and it is completely safe to do this – in my opinion) and let the bus pass.
      On any normal road, even when not on a cycle lane, parked cars force you to pull out and usually to do this safely means you have to slow down and look behind you or stop completely.
      This is ridiculous.

      It’s resorting to fantasy land to make assertions based on a world where there were only bicycles. Why not go all the way and say if everyone had helicopters we wouldn’t need roads. Have you noticed that the only person to provide evidence of a badly designed cycle lane was me? I’ve also pointed out how badly designed the roads are and how badly planned the location of bike stands are but you seem to have missed that. I’ve also said that the ultimate blame lies with the city planners. I’ve also suggested cases for lowering fines for cyclists. Did you notice that one?

      @Satrastar wrote:

      I am a cyclist who also drives and pays motor tax on two different cars. How dare you patronise people who cycle by implying that you are paying for their existence on the road!
      As I drive often too, I realise that cyclists can be annoying even when they are obeying the law – especially when they are obeying the law- as they are much slower than cars (understandably), they get in the way when you are trying to turn left (as most of them have considerately kept to the left side of the road, and many other reasons.
      However all of this is irrelevant as none of it is the fault of cyclists.

      You’ve evaded any mention of the voluntary reckless behaviour that is the fault of cyclists themselves. Have you looked at the videos of cyclists without lights at night or cyclists travelling the wrong way on one way streets into traffic?
      @Satrastar wrote:

      This road tax paying citizen says: Roads are not exclusively for cars!
      Where the hell did you get the idea that roads are for cars only in the first place?

      That’s quite a muddled non sequitur. That you pay road tax on a car and have a bicycle is not an answer to the argument that cyclists pay no specific charge or levy as a result of owning and operating a bicycle. Quote where I said roads are for cars only? Some of your conclusions are just bizarre.

      @Satrastar wrote:

      FXR, your entire attitude is so very wrong in this respect and many others.
      Why don’t you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as “the lycra crowd”?

      Quote exactly where I used the term “lycra crowd” or apologise. You’re quoting another person and mixing them up with me.

      @Satrastar wrote:

      Do you not accept that for every cyclist breaking the law, there are plenty motorists breaking them too? Motorists break the law in heavy, metal objects that travel at high speed.

      That’s been dealt with a number of times on this thread. Wearnicehats already addressed it as did I myself. This is not the Lisbon Treaty; bringing the same thing up again and again is not going to get a different answer. Someone caught shoplifting can’t be justified by the fact there are bank robbers.
      @Satrastar wrote:

      You say that you realise how dangerous it is to be a cyclist in Dublin. You say that it is because of this that you don’t cycle in Dublin. But then you ignore that point.
      What about it? Do you think it’s acceptable that Dublin should be so dangerous for cyclists? It seems as if you do, given the fact that you do not develop upon your statement.

      In light of the fact that I appear to be the only one with any evidence regarding the dangerous situation that pertains to cycling in Dublin your conclusions are just plain weird. You’ve evaded the fact that cyclists exacerbate an already dangerous situation by their own behaviour. Why don’t you address that?

      @Satrastar wrote:

      I found it hilarious that you wrote that you were “too tired” to address GrahamH’s entire post, and then proceeded to blather on for so long. Who are you anyway, that you are declining radio programmes? Why is your opinion so sought after?

      You’re easily amused. No wonder there’s so much money in Stand Up. Point out where I said I was “too tired” to address GramaH’s entire post. What you read and what you see are two different things.
      @Satrastar wrote:

      You are right to decline the radio programme anyway as your loathsome self-importance and the massive chip on your shoulder would be obvious.
      As would your disinterest in engaging in any real discussion about it.

      That’s really convoluted logic. I turn down 5 offers to go on radio and one to go on TV and your conclusion is I’m suffering from self-importance. Well I ain’t no big city lawyer but that thar jes sounds plain whacky tah me sonny!

    • #817054
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is anyone esle having trouble with this website. I press the “enter” key when replying to a post and Google Chrome loses the page. I tried switching to Internet Explorer and it lost the page when I pressed preview. It’s taken almost an hour to post the above reply. I’m alsot getting time out errors and server busy errors.

    • #817055
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The Lisbon treaty comment is pretty stupid; (apart from the obvious fact that the Lisbon did get a different answer the second time)
      I mentioned the already mentioned points in full awareness that they had already been made, in order to demonstrate that you never addressed them properly.

      That helicopter comment is equally pathetic. My original comment stated that roads are not for cars only. You then implied that I said that they were only for bicycles and this is completely false. You know that, but intentionally misrepresent my comments.

      You haven’t addressed anything properly.

      I haven’t evaded mention of the reckless cyclists. I don’t deny they exist. Reckless drivers exist too. Corrupt police exist. Negligent doctors exist too.

      You have filmed several individual incidents of reckless cyclists and on that basis, you expect us all to believe that cyclists as a group are reckless. This is a sign of your stupidity or a sign that you think we are all stupid. Either way, I have finished feeding trolls.

    • #817056
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles :lolno: brilliant. ahhh dear

      Why don’t you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as “the lycra crowd”?

      actually that was me – I was being flippant – it’s a thing I do.

      I love the indignance of all this – the persecution complex, the “well everyone else is doing it why shouldn’t we” cavalier indifference to life

      Oh by the way – classic one yesterday. Lights turn green. Car A at the lights starts off then slams on the brakes. Car B behind misses Car A by a slither. The reason?

      2 cyclists riding the wrong way up a one way street…………..

      ………….On the footpath……………

      ……….breaking the pedestrian “do not cross” red man (they obviously couldn’t see the traffic red light as they were going the wrong way

      BUT GET THIS – both cyclists were policemen.

      you’re a joke lads

    • #817057
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      double post deleted

    • #817058
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Satrastar wrote:

      The Lisbon treaty comment is pretty stupid; (apart from the obvious fact that the Lisbon did get a different answer the second time)
      I mentioned the already mentioned points in full awareness that they had already been made, in order to demonstrate that you never addressed them properly. And you’re calling me stupid!
      That helicopter comment is equally pathetic. My original comment stated that roads are not for cars only. You then implied that I said that they were only for bicycles and this is completely false. You know that, but intentionally misrepresent my comments.

      See the answer by Wearnicehats which put’s that to bed.

      @Satrastar wrote:

      You haven’t addressed anything properly.

      The problem appears to be you can’t recognise it when it happens which is probably why you think it didn’t.
      @Satrastar wrote:

      I haven’t evaded mention of the reckless cyclists. I don’t deny they exist. Reckless drivers exist too. Corrupt police exist. Negligent doctors exist too.

      There you go off into the same meaningless statement again. You are attempting to hide the fact the vast majority of cyclists behave as I’ve described more than enough times. All you can do is make unreferenced blanket generalisations that don’t mean anything or even make any attempt at facing the problem. Then you had the brass neck to claim I wasn’t proposing any solutions. Of course you’ve avoided the answer I gave you the last time you tried that one.
      @Satrastar wrote:

      You have filmed several individual incidents of reckless cyclists and on that basis, you expect us all to believe that cyclists as a group are reckless. This is a sign of your stupidity or a sign that you think we are all stupid. Either way, I have finished feeding trolls.

      No you haven’t finished, it’s more like you’re getting out of Dodge with your pants on fire. I’ve provided more than enough evidence and you’ve come up with zero. If you had actually looked at the evidence you’d know how ridiculous and downright stupid it is to quantify a few hundred cyclists breaking the law, acting recklessly, endangering themselves and others as…and this is really as stupid as it gets….”several individuals”. You are also such a spineless individual that even though, as Wearnicehats has pointed out, you get something completely wrong you can’t even admit it. Then after being completely deflated after acting more like a troll than a little blue man from Scandinavian you start calling us trolls. I’d suggest you pass your own comments before a mirror before posting them.

      And in the next post more evidence just for the record. Roll it there Colette…

    • #817060
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      C.’mon, leave it over FXR !! …. everyone is sickaya now. Ya made yer point long ago.

    • #817061
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      A documentary maker I’m working with on another long term project (nothing to do with cyclists) thinks a TV company might be interested in doing a program about cycling in Dublin (I don’t think so but however). As part of a possible presentation he’s been going through the dated folders of photos and pulling out data. It’s not finished but it gives a timed record of cyclists behaviour in Dublin. The dates and times are recorded in the meta data of each camera. The area the photos were take was between Hueston station in the West, Lombard street in the East, Parnell street in the North and Stephen’s Green Sth. It should be possible to track what one person observed while walking a particular route through the city. Some of the time spans are short and some are longer. The times and days were not chosen specially or for any particular event or occasion that might show an unusual level of cyclists activity. Everything the data was drawn from is available for any interested party to examine.

      All the records below are backed up by photographs. The meta data of each photo can be checked as recorded in the camera. All three cameras were Nikon D90’s. Keep in mind this is only the cyclists who were photographed and can be seen clearly behaving in the way recorded. Many were not photographed and some photos were deleted because of blurring and other quality problems.

      7 April 2011 Thursday
      17.59 to 20.00 Millennium Pedestrian Bridge, 84 mounted cyclists photographed crossing the pedestrian bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 86 seconds.

      11 April 2011 Wednesday
      18.31 to 19.30 Millennium Pedestrian Bridge, Wellington Quay, 40 cyclists cross the bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 88.5 seconds (see total below), 10 cyclists break red lights on the Quay. 1 cyclist travels to the Ha’penny Bridge on the narrow footpath Total average number of cyclist breaking the law is 1 every 70 seconds.

      12 April 2011 Tuesday
      14.59 to 16.07 Dame St to Sean O’Casey Bridge to O’Connell Bridge
      11 cyclists break red lights on Dame St, 3 cyclists cross Sean O’Casey Bridge, 1 cyclists breaks red light at Eden Quay, 1 cyclist crosses Butt Bridge on the footpath,
      2 cyclists cross O’Connell Bridge on the wrong side, 4 cyclists break red lights on either side of O’Connell Bridge.
      17.20 to 18.18 The Millennium Bridge, 33 cyclists cross the pedestrian bridge, some cycle into the Millennium Walkway while others travel the wrong way up the quays to Jervis street or cycle on the narrow footpath. Average number of cyclists breaking the law is 1 every 1.75 minutes.

      16 April 2011 Saturday
      16.22 to 16.57 O’Connell Bridge: cyclists on footpath, breaking red lights, cyclists in moving traffic on the wrong side of the road entering Trinity College.

      14 April 2011 Thursday
      17.28 to 17.29 Dublin City Council offices, Wood Quay, 2 cyclists leave the Dublin City Council car park and cycle on the footpath while another cyclists breaks the red light at Wood Quay.
      17.32 Christchurch, A cyclist breaks the light.
      20.29 Eustace Street Two cyclists without lights travel the wrong way and into Dame St.

      17 April 2011 Sunday
      15.44 to 15.58 Fleet St, one cyclist comes the wrong way into Westmoreland St. College Green, 3 cyclists break red lights, 1 cyclist comes the wrong way from Nassau St into heavy traffic on College Green, 2 cyclists cross solid white line into Nassau St from Grafton St.
      16.03 to 16.20 Grafton St, 4 mounted cyclists travel on pedestrian area,
      16.27 Dame St cyclists breaks red light.
      16.55 to 18.09 Four Courts 2 cyclists travel on the footpath. 4 cyclists travel the wrong way on the North Quays
      18.42 to 20.04 Millennium bridge: 23 cyclists crossing the pedestrian bridge, cycling into the Millennium Walkway, cycling on the footpath and going the wrong way up the quays. Average for cyclist crossing the bridge is one every 3.5 minutes.

      18 April 2011 Monday
      13.34 to 13.35: Abbey Street Upper 3 mounted cyclists on Luas tracks

      22 April 2011 Friday
      13.35 to 13.40: Abbey St Upper 7 mounted cyclists on Luas tracks
      13.49 to 13.49: Millennium Walkway 2 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area.
      14.33 to 14.38: Henry St 3 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area
      15.08 to 15.33: O’Connell St 4 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area

      24 April 2011 Sunday
      11.50 Ellis Quay 1 cyclists turns the wrong way from Marlborough St.
      12.01 Marlborough St cyclist on footpath
      12.02 Marlborough St cyclist with child illegally turns into pedestrianised Cathedral St
      15.17 Ormond Quay cyclist on narrow footpath
      15.38 to 17.33 Millennium Walkway 8 mounted cyclists in the pedestrian area
      17.58 Westmoreland St cyclist breaks red light on O’Connell Bridge

      25 April 2011 Easter Monday
      17.14 to 19.52 Millennium Bridge and Walkway, 55 cyclists on the footpath, the bridge and the walkway.
      15.04 to 16.31 South King St Grafton St, Stephens Green area, 87 cyclists in pedestrian areas, going the wrong way, cycling into Stephens Green averaging 1 cyclist per minute breaking the law.
      20.05 to 20.22 Temple Bar to Westmoreland St cyclists on footpath, breaking red lights and wrong way on one way streets

      28 April 2011 Thursday
      9.06 to 9.26 The North Quays, 1 accident involving cyclist, red light breaking, cyclists on footpath
      9.28 to 10.30 Millennium area 32 cyclists on the pedestrian bridge, wrong way on the quays, on the footpath and in the walkway averaging 1 cyclists every 2 minutes
      11.33 to 11.46 Dawson St cyclists going the wrong way into traffic, cycling on the footpath
      12.01 to 12.24 Molesworth St to Grafton St, cyclists in pedestrian area, horse panics
      12.55 to 13.15 Castle St, Georges St wrong way, red light, footpath
      13.19 to 13.23 South King St 13 cyclists in pedestrian area averaging 1 cyclist every 18.5 seconds
      13.29 to 13.33 Stephens Green cyclists wrong way
      13.52 to 14.18 Stephens Green North 28 cyclists on footpath averaging 1 cyclist every 53 seconds.
      14.49 Dawson St a cyclists going the wrong way into oncoming traffic
      15.00 to 16.19 Baggott St Merrion Row, 17 cyclists travelling the wrong way into heavy traffic and cycling on the footpath
      16.29 Kildare St cyclist going the wrong way into traffic
      16.33 Kildare St cyclist going the wrong way into traffic
      17.01 to 18.56 Millennium Bridge area 94 cyclists cross the bridge, cycle in the pedestrian walkway and/or cycle on the footpath averaging 1 cyclist every 55 seconds

      29 April 2011 Friday
      15.27 to 15.48 Andrew St, South William St, 7 cyclists travelling the wrong way into traffic, cyclist on the footpath, badly planned cycle lane in Andrew St.
      14.15 to 15.01 Sean O’Casey pedestrian bridge, 41 cyclists crossed the bridge in 46 minutes averaging 1 cyclists every 68 seconds. This was a quiet bank holiday Friday in the IFSC.
      13.36 to 13.42 Jervis St Millennium Walkway, Luas line, cyclists going the wrong way, on the footpath, in pedestrian areas.
      15.16 to 15.18 College Green D’Olier St junction, 5 cyclists break red lights in 2 minutes, 1 cyclist on footpath
      16.00 to 16.57 South William St, Stephen St Lwr, 26 cyclists travelling the wrong way into traffic, cycling on the footpath and ignoring traffic signs.
      17.01 to 17.09 South King St 24 mounted cyclists travel on the pedestrian street in 8 minutes averaging 1 cyclist every 21 seconds

      6 May 2011 Friday
      17.40 to 18.03 Jervis St Ormond Quay 21 mounted cyclists going the wrong way, on the footpath and on the bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 66 seconds.

      The majority of cyclists in Dublin go from A to B without any regard for pedestrians, rules of the road, their own safety or the safety of others.

      Quod erat demonstrandum.

    • #817062
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      No FXR, your conclusion is wrong.

      Many cyclists use the Millenium Bridge, footpaths and break some rules of the road such as floating through red pedestrian lights, precisely to make matters safer for themselves, to avoid dangerous junctions, to get ahead of traffic, or avoid hostile places such as the quays.

      Secondly, one may break every rule in the book and still have the utmost regard and respect for pedestrians by the nature of how one cycles.

      Again FXR, your sweeping statements do you zero favours.

    • #817063
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @exene1 wrote:

      C.’mon, leave it over FXR !! …. everyone is sickaya now. Ya made yer point long ago.

      And what’s been solved? Nothing.

      The original idea was to first identify the problem, then identify the causes and then to come up with solutions. That’s never going to happen. This is Ireland after all. A tiny fraction of what it costs to build a cycle lane and a three week campaign could make all the difference. I told Joe Duffy’s researcher where to go because the show was just going to be yet another “I saw one do this and I saw one do that” farce. That’s exactly what happened on Friday the 17th of June. It’s like the Gerry Springer show without the shouting and the tattoos.

      The people ultimately responsible here are those who run the city. If any single group is allowed to do whatever they like, travel the road unqualified and take any sort of risks regardless then that’s just what they’ll do.

      In the future under present policy, with the blind push to put more and more cyclists on the road, unregulated and without proper facilities, someone will be killed, injured or severely traumatised. The pedestrian environment will get worse and the city will see bikes left all over the place. You can bet on it.

    • #817064
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @GrahamH wrote:

      No FXR, your conclusion is wrong.

      Many cyclists use the Millenium Bridge, footpaths and break some rules of the road such as floating through red pedestrian lights, precisely to make matters safer for themselves, to avoid dangerous junctions, to get ahead of traffic, or avoid hostile places such as the quays.

      Secondly, one may break every rule in the book and still have the utmost regard and respect for pedestrians by the nature of how one cycles.

      Again FXR, your sweeping statements do you zero favours.

      Showing a regard for pedestrians would mean not cycling over pedestrian bridges, on narrow footpaths, in narrow pedestrian walkways, on crowed pedestrian streets, coming the wrong way through red lights (where the pedestrians are instructed to look in the other direction). It’s an evasive twist to excuse all that by putting regard for pedestrian as being less important than cyclists (who could easily dismount as a minority of them do) because the cyclists are only making things safer for themselves so stuff the pedestrians. It’s a bit like excusing a moped for driving on the footpath because there are too many potholes. If they did it slowly and carefully with “the utmost regard for pedestrians” they’d be laughed out of court. It’s also an evasive sidestep to mention breaking every rule in the book as only being relative to pedestrians. The majority of cyclists break every rule in the book on or off the road. I didn’t make a sweeping statement: I made a statement based n the evidence as shown.

      Your’e welcome to come up with evidence to the contrary which so far no one has even attempted.

    • #817065
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      By the way Graham, balloons float, cyclists don’t. Next we know they’ll be “hovering” the wrong way up one way streets, “twiddling” over pedestrian bridges and “sailing” along narrow footpaths.

    • #817066
      Anonymous
      Inactive

    • #817067
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      It’s much easier for a child to play with cartoons than actually deal with a serious problem that regularly leads to death or injury. It’s much handier than coming up with some evidence or being adult enough to take your foot back out of your mouth when you’ve rammed it down your throat in public. Cheese puff must be a reference to your cranium contents.

    • #817068
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’d just like to add to the chorus of opinion here that ‘FXR’ is a moron with too much time on his hands.

    • #817069
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’d just like to add that Darwin would have appreciated cyclists

    • #817070
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @soulsearcher wrote:

      I’d just like to add to the chorus of opinion here that ‘FXR’ is a moron with too much time on his hands.

      Not being able to manage an opinion of your own on the subject, articulate a position, investigate the causes of cyclists behaviour or propose any solutions you’re probably better off hiding in a flock of sheep. You’ve probably had the word moron directed at you so often you’ve started to repeat it automatically.

    • #817071
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @wearnicehats wrote:

      I’d just like to add that Darwin would have appreciated cyclists

      I’m not sure about that WNH. They don’t seem to be able to evolve. You can get any amount of “yeah but what about the motorists/pedestrians/seagulls” but no solutions and a general lack of taking responsibility for their own behaviour. Darwin might have been thrown completely off by soulsearcher. He can’t open his mouth on the thread and then pops up like a cross between a sheep following the flock and a squealing pig on the way into the slaughter house.

      But on another thread here’s the same clown giving out about cyclists!
      @soulsearcher wrote:

      I was scootering along on the north circular earlier today when an agressive cyclist flew past me shouting “get out of the cycle lane you ignorant @%$&*#” This is not the first time its happened to me as I would weave through rush hour traffic. I then witnessed the same polite righteous cyclist break 4 red lights in a row (I kept getting stopped at a red only to catch up with him shortly after). It really is jungle law out there.

      https://archiseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4311&p=110018#p110018

    • #817072
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      PRESS RELEASE From Cyclist.ie – Ireland’s National Cycling Lobby Group

      Cyclists say consultants’ cycle-lane claims need careful interpretation and action by roads authorities if numbers of cyclists are to be massively increased in line with government target of 10% of commuting trips made on bikes by 2020

      For immediate release: 2 September 2011

      The joint AECOM and TCD (Civil, Structural & Environmental Engineering) consultants’ report for Dublin City published this week attempts to show, using a cycling infrastructure preference survey methodology, what measures and policies are required in order to persuade many thousands more commuters to switch from car to bike use for their daily commutes. The context for this survey was the setting by the previous government of an ambitious target in its National Cycling Promotion Policy Framework (NCPF) of 10% of commuting trips nationally to be made by bike by 2020. We are way off that target already in 2011.

      In the AECOM/TCD study, 2000 respondents were shown computer generated pictures of various cycling provisions and built infrastructure and asked to express preferences. The results, as stated by the authors, were that most respondents expressed a preference for cycling on the segregated facilities (i.e. rider is not directly in traffic) that they were shown. Mike McKillen (Cyclist.ie, chairman) stated “While we welcome Irish-based research on cycling in Ireland, we feel that showing respondents pictures of idealised cycle facilities and asking them if that’s what they want is not a viable approach to transport planning. Building cycling infrastructure is costly and with scarce road space it is not possible to create a coherent and safe network in towns and cities. It is a pipe-dream if we expect vehicle lanes to be yielded up for cycle lane or track construction. It’s akin to presenting children with a wish list for Santa Claus and then the poor parents are not in a position to deliver the goodies on Christmas Day”!

      However the cyclists strongly welcome the implied finding of the study, which is that cyclists and potential cyclists recognise a need for investment in measures to improve cyclists’ experience of using the roads.

      Mike McKillen points out that “over the two decades since the Department of Transport started to introduce measures to try to promote greater use of the bicycle for commuting there has been too much emphasis on construction of cycling facilities – measures such as shared use of bus lanes, on-road cycle lanes, off-road cycleways, etc – that have not led to the desired increase in cyclist numbers”.

      Instead, Cyclist.ie wants a focus on behavioural interventions such as training for novice cyclists, new laws requiring passing motorists to give cyclists more space and increased Garda enforcement of key traffic infringements including infringements by cyclists (no lights at night, red light running, riding on pavements, etc).

      The Smarter Travel initiative culminating in the publication of the NCPF in 2009 very clearly calls for ‘soft measures’ such as introduction of 30 km/h speed limits in urban areas and around schools (properly enforced, unlike the Dublin Quays scheme), traffic calming, reduction in goods vehicles transiting through urban areas, to name but a few, to be implemented before construction of cycling facilities are considered. This report’s findings fly in the face of the NCPF.

      Cyclist.ie recognises a need for built infrastructural measures in certain circumstances but insists that it must be guided by the government’s National Cycling Policy Framework (NCPF) as adopted in 2009 after extensive consultation. The NCPF advocates a hierarchical approach, where built cycle facilities get the lowest priority coming behind traffic reduction, speed restraint, traffic management and junction treatment that recognises the needs of cyclists and allocating existing traffic lanes in a way that gives them more space.

      The cyclists point out that investment in built cycle facilities requires additional investment in maintenance or the new facilities rapidly become unusable. They say this maintenance is already lacking on existing cycle facilities so more of the same is not an option under present budgetary constraints.

      Cyclist.ie vice chair, Dr. Darren MacAdam-O’Connell, continued “The issue here is whether we want to spend our taxes doing something on selected roads for a few cyclists or spend taxes doing as much as possible, for as many people as possible, across our whole public road system. Unfortunately, the participants in this survey do not appear to have been given this choice. Those who are peddling built infrastructure are on a track to more wastage of public funds that will likely miss the 10% target set in the NCPF for 2020″.

    • #817073
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      thanks for the interesting reference.

    • #817074
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      how are the fire trucks?

    • #817075
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @missarchi wrote:

      how are the fire trucks?

      proof if proof be needed that cyclists should wear helmets when they fall off.

    • #817076
      Anonymous
      Inactive
    • #817077
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @missarchi wrote:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nRwnqfabk4
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwF-ZbJ_txw

      it’s only monday…

      videos by people with nothing to do posted by someone with nothing to add

      It’s Thursday by the way

    • #817078
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Instead, Cyclist.ie wants a focus on behavioural interventions such as training for novice cyclists, new laws requiring passing motorists to give cyclists more space and increased Garda enforcement of key traffic infringements including infringements by cyclists (no lights at night, red light running, riding on pavements, etc).

      There are not enough Garda. DCC is currently employing a number of street ambassadors. There is nothing to stop them turning these people into Cycle Wardens. Street Ambassadors are a nice idea but how difficult is it for tourists to get directions anyway. It would seem a better user of their time to be switched to policing cyclists behaviour in places like pedestrian and where they lock their bikes.

      It might also be a cheap way of improving the road environment if cars and cyclists were encouraged to mount cameras. Cars could be given a discount on motor tax for having a dashboard mounted camera. if you can fit one on a cyclists helmet then you can fit one on a car cheaply enough. Some of this of course might require our politicians doing something original (what!! they don’t do it in Holland shock!) so it’s unlikely the situation will improve any day soon.

    • #817079
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @FXR wrote:

      It might also be a cheap way of improving the road environment if cars and cyclists were encouraged to mount cameras. Cars could be given a discount on motor tax for having a dashboard mounted camera. if you can fit one on a cyclists helmet then you can fit one on a car cheaply enough.

      I was waiting for the mask of sanity to unmistakably slip.

    • #817080
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @jimg wrote:

      I was waiting for the mask of sanity to unmistakably slip.

      Don’t worry you can probably get treatment for it. You’ll look just like you did before.
      Doctors can do wonders these these.

    • #817081
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The canal cycle lane still isn’t finished. They’re working so slowly it must be on the verge of going backwards. Anyone know if they plan to finish it or if it’s become some scientific demonstration of perpetual motion?

    • #817082
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @cheezypuf wrote:

      The canal cycle lane still isn’t finished. They’re working so slowly it must be on the verge of going backwards. Anyone know if they plan to finish it or if it’s become some scientific demonstration of perpetual motion?

      It’s Ireland. Someone has to get killed first. Then they’ll suddenly have an urgent meeting at which they’ll find the funds and then complete the project. Of course when they complete the job it will still be half arsed. You’ll have a stretch of state-of-the-art cycle lane sitting like an island in a shark infested sea. It will of course have cost millions more than it should have. It’s the spirit of 1922.

    • #817083
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Its being officially opened today..according to Twitter

    • #817084
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @StephenC wrote:

      Its being officially opened today..according to Twitter

      We have all been invited by Dublin City Council to the official opening of
      the Grand Canal Way Cycle Route tomorrow.
      Details as follows:

      When?
      11am on Thursday 22nd March ’12

      Where?
      The Cycle path on the Grand Canal , near the Patrick Kavanagh Statue on
      Wilton Terrace, Dublin 2.

      http://www.iwai.ie/forum/read.php?1,42226

    • #817085
      Anonymous
      Inactive
    • #817086
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      And the barriers and scaffolding came down today. That was quick :wtf:.

    • #817087
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      is this the psycopath (sic) that’s a massive 1.5 miles long and is situated just across the canal from a perfectly functional existing cycle lane? In fact(a) the existing one on the canal must be the safest in Ireland given that the traffic is stationary 99% of the time and even when it isn’t can only turn left 4 times over the length of the new cycle lane. As far as I can see it has only increased the general pedestrian chaos at Leeson Street Bridge

      easy option. waste of money. etc etc

    • #817088
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I cycled its length today. It’s a really nice and safe cycle. It’s a bit odd that when it finishes in Portobello the path that connects it to Harold’s Cross bridge has ‘no bicycle’ signs printed on it. I’m pretty sure that that path is owned by the apartments beside Portobello college and it’s not public property. Do they really have the authority to prohibit cycling?

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