dublin airport terminal

Really?

That would be good news. It’s so hard to explain to the average member of the public why 20th century works are important.

Pier D (which is planned to project out of the ‘free’ end of the old terminal building) is back on the agenda.

A Government report [prepared by an interdepartmental committee set up to limit the economic fall-out of the September 11th attacks] calls on Aer Rianta “to procure the development of Pier D by spring 2003 on the basis of the existing planning permission as a low-cost facility targeting low-cost carriers”. Aer Rianta should “enter into appropriate arrangements for the management of Pier D to ensure that it facilitates significant growth in throughput at Dublin airport from low-cost operators”, the report continues. Aer Rianta received the report yesterday and has been asked to respond within a week.

The full story: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2001/1120/fin7.htm

The old terminal building: http://www.irish-architecture.com/archdublin/20thc/airport.html

More muddled thinking from the Minister for Congestion! Surely the problem at Dublin airport after September 11th is one of finding ways to fill the additonal capacity recently provided by Pier C and the new aprons, rather than building a new pier? If more building is required, why not construct a new terminal solely for low-cost carriers on the other side of the airfield?

I thought I’d start a thread on this topic as I haven’t seen it anywhere else on here. Apologies if I am wrong!

In the light of months of procrastination regarding the Dublin airport terminals and Aer Lingus, isn’t about time we had a Taoiseach and cabinet who can show strong leadership and make decisions?

I for one feel this country is in a state of permanent paralysis with Bertie at the helm. He is far too accommodating. Too much talk and too little action! When we had someone with enthusiasm like Brennan at transport he was shafted, because Bertie thought him too divisive. Politicians are paid to get on with the job. We can’t go on like this, our competiveness will be shot to pieces and our quality of life worsened.

My thoughts, yours?

As regards the architectural merits or otherwise of the pier extension and new terminal, I have a feeling we’ll be very disappointed.
Mary Harney on Pat Kenny this morning said she did not want a “Taj Mahal” or an “over-spec” extension/terminal. If she said it once – she said it a hundred times.
One of the first things out the window will be the design elements.
And considering the atrocious standard of buildings at Dublin Airport (the original terminal the glorious exception) – there’s not likely to be any improvement with the DAA left in charge.
As regards your actual point, not sure if you’re on the right forum at all.
But I don’t think dithering is confined to just FF/PD. It’s a fact of life with our style of government where the supposedly national representatives are beholden to the local interests of individual constituents/parishes.

What is the status of the Fitzgearld designed old terminal? Is it still being used as admin offices? And whatever about the architectural merits of the new terminal, absolutely anything would be an improvement on what passes for infrastructure there at the moment. The airport and the DAA who are supposed to be ‘managing’ it are a bad joke.

Used as both offices and for a few departure gates…..

Actually I quite like this building close by the Fitzgerald Terminal

North Terminal (Department of Transport and Power )
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/collinstown/north_terminal.html

Off the point a little, but I’m not sure Desmond Fitzgerald designed the original terminal. Sure, it’s generally attributed to him, but Sean Rothery’s ‘Ireland and the New Architecture’ points out that much of the design work was done while DF was out of the country. I can’t remember the name of the team member to whom SR (implicitly) attributes it- my own copy of the book is at home and Richview Library is now on summer hours. O’Toole? Byrne? Drat! I’ll be back…

According to many contemporary architects, FitzGerald was not the main author of the design but rather the young team of architects working for him. After Dublin Airport, FitzGerald never produced anything of comparable quality again. Although now dwarfed by its larger and less distinguished terminal neighbour, the old terminal has been restored and is now in use as offices. It won the RIAI Gold Medal for 1938-1940.

I checked last night- Rothery suggests Dermot O’Toole (1911-1971) as a possible main hand, though he’s diplomatic enough not to come down too heavily against DFitzGerald just in case.

(Rothery, S., Ireland and the new architecture, 1900-1940, pp.214-219.)

@kefu wrote:

As regards the architectural merits or otherwise of the pier extension and new terminal, I have a feeling we’ll be very disappointed.
Mary Harney on Pat Kenny this morning said she did not want a “Taj Mahal” or an “over-spec” extension/terminal. If she said it once – she said it a hundred times.
One of the first things out the window will be the design elements.
And considering the atrocious standard of buildings at Dublin Airport (the original terminal the glorious exception) – there’s not likely to be any improvement with the DAA left in charge.
As regards your actual point, not sure if you’re on the right forum at all.
But I don’t think dithering is confined to just FF/PD. It’s a fact of life with our style of government where the supposedly national representatives are beholden to the local interests of individual constituents/parishes.

So looks as if we’ll get a more of the same design thing…low ceilings, cramped conditions, a bit here and a bit there, meandering maze effect. Mary ain’t no woman of style. Bless her, the poor cow!

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

According to many contemporary architects, FitzGerald was not the main author of the design but rather the young team of architects working for him. After Dublin Airport, FitzGerald never produced anything of comparable quality again.

Is that not perhaps indicative of Fitzgerald largely not having been involved in its design? 🙂

Yes the low ceilings are the worst element of the current terminal’s interior. Fergus Finlay highlighted that very point with Pat Kenny this morning again, and how the whole airport has been carved up into three floors.

It is a shame such a shambles of a place helps formulate people’s first impression of Ireland – and this is not going to be helped if a functional glorfied motorway megastore-like shed goes up as the second terminal.

The whole complex out there is so uncoordinated with no sense of coherence and few structures worthy of note save the orginal terminal, some other ancillary structures like that mentioned above, and Collinstown House.

Terminal two approved at Dublin airport

Terminal Two agreed at last

Government to sell majority stake in Aer Lingus

The Government has at last made the decision to proceed with the second terminal at Dublin Airport and at the same time agreed in principle to partially privatise Aer Lingus. Details were announced following a Cabinet meeting on Wednesday afternoon although earlier in the day, when questioned in the Dáil, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern would commit to nothing more than that an announcement would be made “shortly”.

Dublin Airport Authority will build and own the new terminal but the DAA and other companies will be invited to submit tenders to decide who will operate it. Those who were hoping for competition were disappointed, particularly when Minister for Transport Martin Cullen said that whoever won the tender would have to operate it in accordance with the terms of an agreement between the Government and the trade unions. In an apparent move to avert criticism Taoiseach Bertie Ahern warned that work practices at the airport would have to change radically and claimed that this was understood by the unions. He added, however, that the trade unions will be involved in the entire process of bringing the new terminal on stream. Concerned at these comments, the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland called for the immediate publication of last year’s agreement between the Government and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions.

While the DAA will be responsible for the construction of the new terminal it must first consult with the airlines planning to use it. It has also been told that it must create a functional building meeting basic needs and able to operate as efficiently as possible. Work is also to proceed on a new pier at the existing terminal. Pier D should be in operation in 2007 and the completion date of the new terminal is 2009. By that stage the planning process for a third terminal should be at an advanced stage and ready for implementation before the first two terminals reach their capacity of 30 million passengers per year. No decisions were made on who should build, own or operate the third terminal.

Tourism and industry groups welcomed the decision but there is a widespread belief that, having waited so long, they were ready to welcome any decision that hastened the completion of Terminal 2. Aer Lingus also welcomed the news but Ryanair’s CEO Michael O’Leary was scathing in his criticism. He described the existing terminal as “not just a slum” but “a testament to the failure of Bertie Ahern to keep his own promises”. Mr O’Leary has long advocated that the terminal should be built and operated by the private sector, given the record of state involvement to date. Another critic was Ulick McEvaddy who owns 150 acres of land adjacent to the airport and fronting the N2. He is anxious to build the terminal and points to the problem of all airport traffic trying to reach both terminals from the M1. Mr McEvaddy plans to lodge a complaint under national and EU competition law.

Minister Cullen justified the partial privatisation of the national airline on the basis that it required substantial capital to expand. He gave an assurance that, while a majority stake would be sold, the Government would retain at least a 25% stake in the airline to ensure that it is not the subject of a trade sale to another airline. He also believes that this will prevent the sale of valuable landing slots at Heathrow. On this occasion his critics either attacked the decision to privatise the airline or attacked the minister for failing to specify the percentage of the airline he planned to sell, how much he hoped to raise and whether it would be by sale to a private investor or via a stock market flotation. Opposing the sale of a stake in the airline were the trade unions, the Labour Party, the Greens and Sinn Féin.

The Minister hailed the decisions as momentous for the aviation sector. PD leader Tánaiste Mary Harney was more subdued. Political observers saw the Terminal Two decision as a victory for Fianna Fáil but, while acknowledging that concessions had been made, Ms Harney insisted that both the PDs and Fianna Fáil had made concessions in the interests of coalition Government.

I passed through Munich Airport Terminal 2 at the weekend and I must say it is one of the most beautiful, efficient
and comfortable terminals i have ever been in.
I hope Dublin’s new terminal will be built to the same specifications.
More information can be found at http://www.munich-airport.de

Can I just point out that Frankfurt had a new terminal built about three years ago for a cost of €14 million. The contractors did however manage to over spend by about €500,000 (how alarming, NOT!) What is so insane about this picture?!?! Frankfurt gets new terminal, it costs €14 million. Cork gets new terminal, it costs €150 million. Dublin gets new terminal, it costs … If Germany can build a large terminal for peanuts, we could have a decent airport in every city in Ireland. And I mean an airport, not just a landing strip and a galvanise shed (i.e. Galway and Waterford). How do we manage to spend so much when it could cost so little?

Yes, I’m sure. Ryanair said so! So it has to be right. And I read it in the newspaper when it first opened. It’s able to manage about five million passangers. It’s not alot, but for a €14million terminal what would you expect. I can’t seem to remember the name of the airport that it was built at, but for that price, I suspect it’s fairly basic, but who cares, the most you’ll spend in an airport is 2-3hours. It doesn’t have to be a 5 star health spa.

Spending 2 – 3 hours in some dump like LHR or JFK is enough to put one off air travel.

Try spending 12 hours in LHR after a 13 hour flight from Japan. At least they have a Harrods in there (like I could afford anything in there anyway). There is something so depressing about airports, even though I love going to them… big planes ohhhh. But I would prefer the government building new terminals every 20 years for a few million rather then repair old derelict things from the 60’s for hundreds of millions.

Stansted was always a beautiful airport, so modern, open and spacious, that is before Ryanair took over the place anyway.

Airports are the first impressions you get of a country – my favourites in addition to Munich are Schiphol, CDG, and Helsinki.

I agree alpha, what we need is an architecturally stunning terminal buliding which works.
Lets hope we get it – or will we get a ‘design and build’ heap of concrete at minimal cost.

A-ha

I think what you mean is that pre-Ryanair STN was empty, not “spacious”.

lol, I guess thats what I mean. It was like owning your very own private airport. I do hope they build a second runway at Stansted. Heathrow is almost unbearable. What will it be like with Terminal 5 will open. They say that it’s all ready going to be overcrowded, and it hasn’t even been built yet. Thank God Ryanair hasn’t invaded Gatwick like it has done with other airports. It’s overcrowded enough as it is! Hopefully all will go well with Dublin and Cork airports.

DAA announces plans for passenger terminal

The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) has announced plans to build a new 50,000sq metre passenger terminal building at Dublin Airport to the south of the existing terminal facility and to the rear of the existing Pier C.

“This is a very exciting and challenging project for the DAA and the company is determined to deliver facilities at Dublin Airport, which meet the business requirements of our customers and which represent appropriately the capital city airport of a progressive EU member state,” he added.

So what do we think…? Its not very detailed. I was hoping they would have some designs and stuff…but it seems like it could be good….I just hope the integration of it with the current terminal and piers doesn’t become its downfall. No mention of transport – apart from road improvements. So i guess, in typical Irish fashion, we’re all gonna be encouraged to continue driving there, coz we have no other real option….jeez.

yip – the car is king

I wonder will any of the parking places for the aeroplanes be designed to take the new airbus!? I bet you the answer is no so immediately after it is built they will realise – oops, we are not able to cater for airlines that might wish to use the airbus for long-haul flights. I hope they have done good market research.

PowerPoint from the Dublin Airport Authority Site with visuals of terminal plans going forward.

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/AR_Corporate/pdf/PressFinal.pdf

Looks a bit of a mess to me, with piers and aircraft all over the place.

he he….its always a fear isn’t it? But a justified fear….unfortunately.

But I was looking at the DDA website and the original plan for “Pier D” back in 2002, which was sceduled to be open by now…. :confused: ….does specify catering for larger aircraft, including Boeing 747’s. Should they cater for the new double-decker Airbus? I’m thinking if they’re gonna built a modern, up-to-date airport, they should, even though they will probably never land there, at least they could if they had to. But then again, maybe they forgot this time…they forgot about transport development. At least they forgot to mention it….maybe there’s a part 2 due for release after lunch? Maybe the DAA have all gone to the pub to decide what they’re gonna do. Yep…Im gonna check back later.

I wanna see designs.

Seems they’re back from the pub, with their designs already…. 😮
I dunno…it seems all over the place…

I think those plans look dead boring. Why is it that we can’t build anything decent these days? People that built buildings all over the world including Ireland hundreds of years ago did way better than we do today. I am not impressed with that one bit at all.

The location of the new terminal seems sensible to me; what I don’t get is how are we going to get to pier d, that long curved walkway won’t take a travellator will it?

will this cut off all airside views of the original building?

The plans seem like a sensible addition to what we have, regardless of architectural merit, which is not obvious from the diagrams. I dont see it as a mess, but neat.

I presume they need more runways as well to cater for this capacity?

it’s like the port tunnel. they start to build it, then all of a sudden… “oh no it won’t take super trucks”. i bet you anything they will make a mess of the airport too.

That meme will never die, will it? The designers knew about super trucks, had aboring machine which didn’t handle the height, knew that SuperTrucks are illegal on most roads, in Ireland and anywhere else, and were 3% of the total of trucks hauled ( worldwide, I think, rather than here). Andof course had they built to accomdate SuperTrucks, a newer bigger super truck would have come along and caused more sneering.

The sensible thing was to do as they did. Of course Dublin Airport should handle larger aircraft – a different kettle of fish.

It’s a pity Dublin Airport is such a sprawling mess of various buildings – as a result it is largely not possible for the complex to feature a purpose-built ‘iconic’ structure, we just have to live with that.

The closest we could get to it I suppose is in the designing of the new Terminal 2 in a manner that the existing main Terminal 1 building can eventually be re-clad/designed in a complementary fashion…

Of course the question of the day is – what’s going to happen to the fondly-held Corballis House?!

Suggestions of moving it are more than just a little bizarre…
Surely half the charm of this building is that it has remained intact on its orginal site in the midst of all the development buzzing about around it?

who is it fondly held by?

can we have it inside the terminal; it would be so wierd in an entertaining way!

…so at least if we can’t have ‘landmark’ architecture, we can do eh, ‘unusual’.

I thought everyone knew of this house Paul – certainly well-liked by family and people I know.
Clearly you never watched the Toy Show – it was the highlight of the evening every year, still they stopped doing those Christmas lights VTs that is 🙁

Makes for an interesting feature in the grounds too – brings home to you how the whole complex was nothing but fields not too long ago.

I know the house – doesnt mean that it is fondly held – I think you assume too much of the airport users

Maybe…

Looking at the DAA press release, the new terminal is pictured as sited just to the left of the house in the picture above, but it expands way out beyond its main facade, essentially blocking it off.
At least it’s not sited in the middle of the proposed building – maybe they can cut a chunk out of the corner to put it crudely.

Saying that, it’s also possible the renderings do not highlight the reality that the new terminal will in fact be larger than that pictured, and that it was curtailed to the boundary of the house for the press conference, lest there be any hullabaloo generated by the house’s very existance being wiped from the maps…

a sensible thing to do would be to build extra large just in case. get things right at the begining. think things through properly. it is mad that in london for example some of the tube lines don’t allow much room between the train and the roof of the tunnel

alpha, you have to remember that some of the tube lines in London were built either over a hundred years ago or else during the aftermath of two world wars, but I do agree, everything should be made bigger “just in case”. If Aer Lingus have big plans for opening up long haul routes from Dublin, then they should suggest to the DAA that they don’t want to operate in an airport that can’t accomadate large aircraft. If the airport wants to open it’s self up to the world and act as a “gateway” then their gonna have to do better. The airport wont be viable in the future if it can’t cater for modern planes….. Boeing 747’s are already outdated, with the larger airlines like British Airways, Lufthansa and Emirites replacing a portion of their 747 fleet with the new Airbus A380. I just think that the DAA should think more along the lines of Heathrow and Charles de Gaulle, instead of just fixing an overcrowding problem, they should be thinking of the airports growth aswell.

I don’t understand why they have to raise the landing charge by 50% (from e5 to e 7.5). After all the terminal is due to cost only 200 million and the extra 15 million passengers will pay 75million in charges a year at the current rate!

The digram in the Irish Times appears to show a yellow line in front of the Desmond Fitzgearld building, does any one know what this implies, it is as if it is indicating alteration to the ground floor of the building. Also any opinions on how the new buildings will impact on the original terminal.

As regards Corballis House I would think of it fondly, and I believe that opinion is shaired, Pat Liddy the Dublin artist and historion considers it worthy of an entry in his first book “Dublin Today”, it contains an illistation and potted history of the house. Well worth a look.

crestfield, Thats a curved walkway, designed by skidmore/owens/merril. It and pier D already have planning permission.

so i said this already but i am amazed there has been less discussion on the topic:

a) a curved walkway means no moving walkway!
b) it appears to obscure the airside view of the old terminal!

notjim, I remember reading a description a few years ago of the walkway. I think I rcall it is to be elevated, so probably more slender and less obtrusive than one fears (the grahpic in the presentation is’nt great, is it). Thats all I can remember sorry. Pier D is designed for Low Cost Airlines, so I guess travelators are’nt important to Michael O leary et al, but I expect there will be such along the straight part of the pier of course.

http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/projects/content/projects_696.asp?print=1

I think this might be what you’re referring to……but i think its the wrong way around to work in the new design.

God, imagine the hike from one end of the new airport to the next….imagine flying into the existing Pier B from somewhere European to connect to a new “long haul” onward flight leaving from the new Northern Extension, and having to walk all the way there. Maybe a mini transit system should be investigated. I know, say transit to the powers that be and its “ugh, eh, eek, hmmm, arggh…” but surely they could do small scale……surely.

No, actually I dont trust them. 😡

I definitly heard of a walkway by SOM, maybe the media got it wrong. I know they also did a report but im sure I heard of them doing a curved walkway aswell. That other design looks ok, doenent ruin the old terminal. Not mad on the suspension design though.Imagine seeing the old terminal lit up at night from that walkway. Another thing that concerns me from the presentations timescale list is that it looks like the road system will be the last phase to be built. How daft is that? Ariel photo:

http://perljam.net/google-satellite-maps/id/4887/Ireland//Dublin/Dublin_International_Airport

@crestfield wrote:

The digram in the Irish Times appears to show a yellow line in front of the Desmond Fitzgearld building, does any one know what this implies, it is as if it is indicating alteration to the ground floor of the building. Also any opinions on how the new buildings will impact on the original terminal.

Yeah it does look like the ground floor of the original terminal is to be further compromised. Howver these are only site models so we’ll have to reserve architectural opiniojn until furthe rimages are released.

An Bord Pleanála gave permission for an elevated, elipitical, connecting corridor to be run through the car park in front (i.e. land-side) of the OTB – overruling the inspector’s report. There is no permission fo the link illustrated in the DAA document.

Inspector’s report.
Board’s direction.

I suspect the increase in pax charge is due to 10L/28R (parallel runway).

MOL is going to be annoyed – Stansted got a lash in the meeja from Ryanair about rolling a huge amount of airport upgrading into a terminal upgrade (90m which BAA represented as 3bn or something).

It is, I’ve flown out of the older building on flights to Edinburgh

I`m beginning to wonder if we in Ireland have any REAL gra for this 21st century economy nonsense at all,especially when it comes to our Air Travel arrangements.

I attended a public meeting over three years ago now in thew CityWest Hotel (Hmmmm).
It was a presentation by Tony Ryan the doyen of RyanAir and it showcased that companies proposal to develop Baldonnel Aerodrome as its Dublin Hub.
Under the Ryanair plan the Ryans would not only supply the Air Corps with a fully functional HQ but would construct a seperate network of access roads to both the N7 and N4 Trunk Roads at NO charge to the State.
Added to this was the proximity of the LUAS Red Line which would be a stones throw from Belgard Station (Immediately beneath The Flight Path in fact)

Well Holy God …..The reaction of much of the audience was akin to being asked to eat goats dung .
“Wa about the Noize”
“Wa about de Traffik”
“Wa about the Sheep”
And so on and so forth ad nauseum……

As Dublin continues to expand in it`s presently unplanned,uncontrolled,unsupervised manner it struck me that Dr Ryans proposal was one of the few I had come across where the proponents had taken a look at the ACTUALITY of where the City is rather than some happy clappy vaporous concept drawn on an Apple Mac screen.

Yet today we are no nearer to a satisfactory resolution of the Collinstown Chronicles as Dublin Airport struggles to overcome its all to apparent physical limitations as an international Airport.

It appears an eminently sensible solution to allow Dublin to have TWO Airports both from a strategic (Alternate) point of view and a strictly commercial one.
Yet we persist in staring these eminently sensible and commonsense types of solutions before finally walking away shaking our heads and muttering darly about finding some reason NOT to do anything that might smack of REAL progress !! 😡

@Alek Smart wrote:

I`m beginning to wonder if we in Ireland have any REAL gra for this 21st century economy nonsense at all,especially when it comes to our Air Travel arrangements.

I attended a public meeting over three years ago now in thew CityWest Hotel (Hmmmm).
It was a presentation by Tony Ryan the doyen of RyanAir and it showcased that companies proposal to develop Baldonnel Aerodrome as its Dublin Hub.
Under the Ryanair plan the Ryans would not only supply the Air Corps with a fully functional HQ but would construct a seperate network of access roads to both the N7 and N4 Trunk Roads at NO charge to the State.
Added to this was the proximity of the LUAS Red Line which would be a stones throw from Belgard Station (Immediately beneath The Flight Path in fact)

Well Holy God …..The reaction of much of the audience was akin to being asked to eat goats dung .
“Wa about the Noize”
“Wa about de Traffik”
“Wa about the Sheep”
And so on and so forth ad nauseum……

As Dublin continues to expand in it`s presently unplanned,uncontrolled,unsupervised manner it struck me that Dr Ryans proposal was one of the few I had come across where the proponents had taken a look at the ACTUALITY of where the City is rather than some happy clappy vaporous concept drawn on an Apple Mac screen.

Yet today we are no nearer to a satisfactory resolution of the Collinstown Chronicles as Dublin Airport struggles to overcome its all to apparent physical limitations as an international Airport.

It appears an eminently sensible solution to allow Dublin to have TWO Airports both from a strategic (Alternate) point of view and a strictly commercial one.
Yet we persist in staring these eminently sensible and commonsense types of solutions before finally walking away shaking our heads and muttering darly about finding some reason NOT to do anything that might smack of REAL progress !! 😡

Dublin really dosnt need two airports. Dublin Airport and the space it inhabits is under-utilised. There is only 20 million passengers a year going through the Airport:)

Only 20 Million….yes I remember our Taoiseach settling on dis figger and quite correctly pointin out how our new-found wealth was allowin us to travel more…if we would give up all this to`in an fro ìn then Collinstown would be a far nicer place……I totally concur !

wohooo a new tent at dublin airport…. sheesh

this is going to sound like heresy , but i don’t think the airport is that busy. hear me out! In almost every airport i have ever been i have always been pretty uncomfortable.

Whenever you check in you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people. Whenever you are in the security queue you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people, and whenever you are picking up your bags you are surrounded by far too many people. I will admit there have been exceptions but in the main unless the terminal is enormous i have never liked being in an airport.

I fly from dublin at least three times a year and have always had no problem. I do need to point out that i have a very strict approach to the airport. I arrive ON TIME. not early not late , exactly 40 minutes before the flight. I always catch the end of the check in queue (or if at all possible pack a small bag and carry it on board). I then make my way direct to the gate and sit with paper in hand. NO stopping!!.

What i am trying to get at is that i think the airport problems are being hyped up and exacerbated by the dublin airport authority because it is in their interest that the airport look to be bursting at the seams! In this way they can keep adding on little extensions. WHY ? because if you took a look around the terminal any reasonable person would conclude that the best thing to do next is to simply demolish the entire thing and rebuild. They are petrified that somebody anybody will build a new terminal on the east side (where there is only grass). This is because it would be very easy to build a terminal that was so much more efficient that the current one would have to close. it is in bertie’s constituency so don’t expect anything to happen. the PDs would love to sort out all our transport problems but bertie will have none of it.

I use it every month and disagree. It depends what time you fly at – there are periods of lull and there’s periods of complete madness. As a general rule, If I compare it to other airports, the queues to check in are significantly longer and there’s not enough X ray machines used – in general at least half are unmanned. That really needs to be sorted out. I think the idea used in Istanbul of scanning bags before entering the airport is probably a good idea and should be looked at. Oh and the baggage delivery is disgraceful, and is particularly awful on Sunday nights when charter flights are coming back making the problem even worse. A 40 minute wait for bags is a joke

@a boyle wrote:

I fly from dublin at least three times a year and have always had no problem. I do need to point out that i have a very strict approach to the airport. I arrive ON TIME. not early not late , exactly 40 minutes before the flight. I always catch the end of the check in queue (or if at all possible pack a small bag and carry it on board). I then make my way direct to the gate and sit with paper in hand. NO stopping!!.

Aer Lingus is now closing flights 45 minutes prior to departure. This applies even if you check in with a machine and you have no check-in luggage. Otherwise, you then have to beg to be let on at the late desk. This doesn’t always work. Aer lingus recommends passengers to check in 2hrs, 30mins early for UK/Europe and 3hrs, 30mins for other flights. Many infrequent flyers follow this advice, so there are more people in the airport at any given time than there needs to be.

The security queue can take 40 minutes to clear at a bad time, so I would arrive an hour early without check-in luggage and 1hr 15mins with luggage. The airport is very quiet from 8pm onwards so it’s best to travel the night before if posssible.

The bottlenecks in the airport are parking, check-in, security, baggage reclaim and passport control. It is in the airport authority’s interest to maximise the time spent in the airport by passengers to improve revenues from parking and shopping. If the airport becomes so inefficient that it requires a new terminal then people will spend even more time moving between terminals and there will be more car parks, shops and ancillary revenue.

A tent on the roof of a car park is a very funny idea.

Successful airports spend most of their lives under construction. You’d imagine that a requirement when building an airport would be to design it in an extensible fashion. Dublin Airport looks like a bunch of misfit buildings dropped at random from a height .

And by the time they put the tent in it’ll probably be needed for the Ryder Cup.

please don’t misunderstand me i think things are bad . but i think that the terrible problems are being talked up because in serves the DAA interests.

There is no actual need for a fourth runway for instance. If the terminal ran efficiently the runway can be work up to thirty million , as against 20 now. To do this we would need to bulldoze the entire thing.

The idea of building in a modular fashion is so obvious that i cannot understand why it is not being done. A quick look at google earth and you can see acres of pristine space ready for a modularly built terminal in one long line.

Behind all the problems lies one single political fact. Bertie ahern is not going to sack thousands of people. plain and straight. That would be the inevitable outocme to sorting out the airport. Consider how much more effort is going in to keep essentially four tiny terminals in operation.

It won’t happen anytime soon

@darkman wrote:

Dublin really dosnt need two airports. Dublin Airport and the space it inhabits is under-utilised. There is only 20 million passengers a year going through the Airport:)

sorry for not reading the whole thread here and butting in…

i was in berlin the last 3 days and had checked out the various options for flying there, Berlin has 3 airports with a combined passenger figure of 15.5 million. That is for 3 yes 3 airports…Dublin has 18.5 m annually and this is increasing. I think it’s high time for a MAJOR expansion to combat the present and the future. i arrived yesterday into a quasi-prefab terminal outpost and had to walk 20 minutes to baggage reclaim…did anyone notice also that the planes are taxi-ingin further from the main building? And that buses seem to be in operation but in my last 2 flights this month i have not had the opportunity to board one? I don’t know what is going on but it needs a huge boost to remain a credible place to do business…

@a boyle wrote:

this is going to sound like heresy , but i don’t think the airport is that busy. hear me out! In almost every airport i have ever been i have always been pretty uncomfortable.

Whenever you check in you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people. Whenever you are in the security queue you are ALWAYS surrounded by far too many people, and whenever you are picking up your bags you are surrounded by far too many people. I will admit there have been exceptions but in the main unless the terminal is enormous i have never liked being in an airport.

I fly from dublin at least three times a year and have always had no problem. I do need to point out that i have a very strict approach to the airport. I arrive ON TIME. not early not late , exactly 40 minutes before the flight. I always catch the end of the check in queue (or if at all possible pack a small bag and carry it on board). I then make my way direct to the gate and sit with paper in hand. NO stopping!!.

What i am trying to get at is that i think the airport problems are being hyped up and exacerbated by the dublin airport authority because it is in their interest that the airport look to be bursting at the seams! In this way they can keep adding on little extensions. WHY ? because if you took a look around the terminal any reasonable person would conclude that the best thing to do next is to simply demolish the entire thing and rebuild. They are petrified that somebody anybody will build a new terminal on the east side (where there is only grass). This is because it would be very easy to build a terminal that was so much more efficient that the current one would have to close. it is in bertie’s constituency so don’t expect anything to happen. the PDs would love to sort out all our transport problems but bertie will have none of it.

i sometimes fly 3 times a month and have been to 14 airports in the last year, and Dublin has been the busiest of the last 3 in have been (Manchester,East MIdlands,Berlin Schönefeld) by i would say a factor of 3

no matter what time you go there is it ibusy, huge numbers of late flights and other low cost airline are straming in with regular flights, lots of polish flights by almost unheard of operators. I had to Queue 25 minutes for a taxi one night along with 200 people as there was no other way to the city centre. Never ever would this happen in any other comparable city.

@Keen wrote:

sorry for not reading the whole thread here and butting in…

i was in berlin the last 3 days and had checked out the various options for flying there, Berlin has 3 airports with a combined passenger figure of 15.5 million. That is for 3 yes 3 airports…Dublin has 18.5 m annually and this is increasing. I think it’s high time for a MAJOR expansion to combat the present and the future. i arrived yesterday into a quasi-prefab terminal outpost and had to walk 20 minutes to baggage reclaim…did anyone notice also that the planes are taxi-ingin further from the main building? And that buses seem to be in operation but in my last 2 flights this month i have not had the opportunity to board one? I don’t know what is going on but it needs a huge boost to remain a credible place to do business…

I think we all want Dublin to become a hub Airport. It cant do that unless it gains critical mass i.e new terminals, new facilities, the extra runway etc. If you were to build a second airport, our main airport would lose out IMO. 20 million is not alot of passengers for one airport for those who think it is. The current terminal is inadequate, not the Airport itself…….

@Frank Taylor wrote:

Successful airports spend most of their lives under construction. You’d imagine that a requirement when building an airport would be to design it in an extensible fashion. Dublin Airport looks like a bunch of misfit buildings dropped at random from a height .

:confused: Flying into Nice, Cote d’ Azur at anytime of year is like landing in the lobby of a five star hotel yet the airport is always under redevelopment (although you would never realize it, 8-12 million passengers pa), the ONLY hassle one would encounter is if you need to go to the car rental bays (a two min walk) where you may get approached by guy’s in Armani suits looking to borrow 20-50 euros until tomorrow!!
No tents, no hassle, no dirt, no rip offs (at least not from the Airport Authority),…what is going wrong in Dublin, or Cork and Shannon for that matter??

what is going wrong is very simple , no economics. It is only relatively recently that the idea of running airlines for profit has come about with the starting of ryanair (well in europe at least)

What is now beginning to happen, thanks to the pds prodding, is that airports are run for profit. This is what i was trying to allude to in my previous posts . Dublin airport is petrified of any competition as it would be ruined. They are also petrified of having to build on the nice green space to the east (much cheaper) because the new terminal will make the old one look so bad it will have to close.

All my previous posts were trying to say was that considering the fact that terminal is full to the gills , it is working remarkably well. And all talk of crisis only leads to stop gap measures which only plays into the hands of the DAA. As it is section A and it’s distant addon should be demolished as they are just crap.

The solution is simple two new large terminals designed to keep the planes parralel to the runways. one terminal on the north of the eastertn side , facing the current terminal, and a second terminal on the western side.

But this is why it is not happening : aerlingus employs 3000 , and has to pay pensions for 8000. ryanair employs <3000 and flys many many more people. Aer rianta (it is still aer rianta as the airports are not yet seperated!) employs thousands. And those thousands all live in one constituency. If they get fired that T.D. gets fired , and that T.D. happens to be the taoseach. So in conclusion this whole thread is a waste of time till the next election.

Airports are a natural monopoly and that is why the break-up of Aer Rianta into three seperate and distinct entities made sense. For Dublin it would allow them to concertrate on building a premier airport and national gateway for the country. For Cork and Shannon, it would allow them to take charge of their own destiny. Competition between the three airports would also be a good thing, keeping each airport on its toes.
Nevertheless, we have now ended up with an airports authority that is ‘semi split’, with one management (!) and three different boards! Only in Ireland.
Futhermore, here in Cork we have a new terminal (finished but not open…and no date for an opening yet!) that has one only airbridge…so the main gripe that passengers had was getting wet when walking to the distant aircraft stands is not really addressed at all. I am sure most passengers would prefer a more modest looking terminal if they could simply ensure that passengers are not soaked to the skin when boarding a place. Meanwhile Dublin remains the most chaotic and dirtiest airport in Western Europe. I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less

@corcaighboy wrote:

Airports are a natural monopoly and that is why the break-up of Aer Rianta into three seperate and distinct entities made sense. For Dublin it would allow them to concertrate on building a premier airport and national gateway for the country. For Cork and Shannon, it would allow them to take charge of their own destiny. Competition between the three airports would also be a good thing, keeping each airport on its toes.
Nevertheless, we have now ended up with an airports authority that is ‘semi split’, with one management (!) and three different boards! Only in Ireland.
Futhermore, here in Cork we have a new terminal (finished but not open…and no date for an opening yet!) that has one only airbridge…so the main gripe that passengers had was getting wet when walking to the distant aircraft stands is not really addressed at all. I am sure most passengers would prefer a more modest looking terminal if they could simply ensure that passengers are not soaked to the skin when boarding a place. Meanwhile Dublin remains the most chaotic and dirtiest airport in Western Europe. I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less

i agree corcaighboy,

“I just fail to understand how Ireland puts up with this nonsense. Revolutions were started over less”

between the intercity, metro, port tunnel works and the airport i think a revolution is long overdue. I mean, if this was US, time is money and we are pissing money downa drain unless we get our act together. How can we fail to see that as a society? Why are proposals not being more publicised? Your average Joe is not going to put perssure on the govt. unless he has something to fight for.

@Thomond Park wrote:

Was in the Airport this morning and used gates A64-71 for the first time yes Dublin Airport has finally decended into Portacabin City with an advised 7 minutes walk from

Agreed. Went thro’ 69 to Luton last week. Felt as though I was walking there. No warnings at check in about the lenght of time to get there, you are a fitter person than I if you walk it in 7 minutes! An echo box, nothing to deaden the frantic footfalls of people rushing for their flights. Most developed countries have trolleys at airports, we have them in hospitals.
KB2

Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto – the contrast in experience couldn’t be more different (and we’re the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)

Porto – a simple 30 minute metro ride costing 1.40 to a sleek, contemporary terminal (see how pretty it looks https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4539)

Dublin – portacabin sheds stretching for what seems like miles into the mayhem of baggage reclaim as several planeloads of people crowded 4 deep waiting for their luggage…then onto a stinky bus (5euros!) which had to be diverted because of traffic caused by the wexford/kilkenny match

if we have any national pride – or pity for harrased travellers – the current terminal should be razed and replaced immediatly

@Deadonarrival wrote:

Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto – the contrast in experience couldn’t be more different (and we’re the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)

Porto – a simple 30 minute metro ride costing 1.40 to a sleek, contemporary terminal (see how pretty it looks https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4539)

Dublin – portacabin sheds stretching for what seems like miles into the mayhem of baggage reclaim as several planeloads of people crowded 4 deep waiting for their luggage…then onto a stinky bus (5euros!) which had to be diverted because of traffic caused by the wexford/kilkenny match

if we have any national pride – or pity for harrased travellers – the current terminal should be razed and replaced immediatly

😮 Could not agree more…traveling regularly between both Dublin and Cork “INTERNATIONAL” airports to Nice, France (not the main or second airport in France by any means) would make you wonder what dub and ork would be like if we were not the richest, fastest growing economy in Europe??
See Nice and cringe….
http://www.nice.aeroport.fr/include/default.asp?l=2

Originally posted by Deadonarrival
Flew into the cattle shed that is Dublin Airpport this morning from Porto – the contrast in experience couldn’t be more different (and we’re the ones enjoying a 10 year boom?)

You just have to keep repeating to yourself “We’re in a period of transition, we’re in a period of transition..”..however playing catch-up becomes more and more infuriating when the rest of the developed world also moves forward leaving us forever in its wake. Going through Dublin Airport is an embarrassing experience, and this morning is was on the train from Donabate to Grand Canal Dock and some Spanish students got on at Donabate – you get the feeling that nobody from any western country is too impressed by what they see.
Chris Lowry in the Herald was particularly scathing after his trip to Germany just how advanced things are over there compared to here – after a trip to Chicago I was amazed at the cleanliness of the place, not a piece of litter to be seen anywhere! However it was always a mess in Ireland and things aren’t going to change overnight, no matter how rich the nation is.

@KerryBog2 wrote:

Agreed. Went thro’ 69 to Luton last week. Felt as though I was walking there. No warnings at check in about the lenght of time to get there, you are a fitter person than I if you walk it in 7 minutes! An echo box, nothing to deaden the frantic footfalls of people rushing for their flights. Most developed countries have trolleys at airports, we have them in hospitals.
KB2

I timed it the other evening. 4 minutes walk to the edge of pier A, 3.5 minutes walk to get past passport control (no queue at night). 2.5 minutes walk to the arrivals hall (no baggage). 9 minutes in total. It is very unpleasant. There are insufficient seats at the end of the new pier so lots of people are standing. No air conditioning. It’s another reason to fly aer lingus who can often match ryanair on price these days, particularly if you travel at short notice.

the plain and simple fact is that the whole current terminal need to be demolished. It has been extended and extended too many times.

If you look at the airport in google map , it really shows up how wastefull the entire airport is. The is ooodles of fresh minted grass waiting to be built upon on the eastern side of the airport. What is simply needed is a long straight building running parallel to the main runway, not this hodge podge.

Indeed the airport development plan seeks to change the whole organisation into an east west system. We should be putting a long term car park to the east of the M1 and another to the north east of of the finglas m50 junction. then run a spur from the belfast train line. east west.

So whole thing would go something like this: finglas m50 junction -> long term carpark West –> short term carpark West —> east terminal –> underpass —> new west terminala (reorientated to be parralel with the runway) —> short tem carpark East —> M1 over pass (taxi rank)—> long term carpark East —> belfast train line.

Then remove all car acces from the airport —> that’s how you get things moving.

It is worth noting that the development plans points out that the reason for the second runway is that the terminal is too inneficient to make full use of the current runway. This is why i think we should avoid letting the Daa talk about the airport as a crisis, because it just lets them add little bits to the terminal, and reinforces the lodsided development, instead of sorting it out once and for all!

This is a slightly outdated render of Pier D – the airbridges featured will not be built at this stage , although permission has been granted for them.

You can also make out the two pylons of the cable-stayed, curved walkway which will run through the old executive carpark to the front of the Old Central Terminal Building connecting to Terminal One somewhere in the long corridor (with travelators) between the Garda Immigration booths and the duty-free shop for Pier A.

this extension is crazy ,it is a twenty minute walk to the end , and the main problem remain the main building is too small

They should sort out the shed that is Pier A also! It’s quite a walk!! And is bad impression to 1st time visitors to Ireland via Dublin!

@adhoc wrote:

This is a slightly outdated render of Pier D – the airbridges featured will not be built at this stage , although permission has been granted for them.

Do you mean that air bridges similar to those shown will not be built or that there will not be air bridges at all. if so, is that a cost cutting measure? A lack of air bridges seems unprofessional and unimpressive to me, something I was hoping we would get this time round with new developments.

more renderings of walkway…
http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/whatwedo/ourprojects/projectsearch/project.asp?projectid=696

Terminal 2 is being designed by Parr Architects.

http://www.parrarchitects.com/

@ihateawake wrote:

Do you mean that air bridges similar to those shown will not be built or that there will not be air bridges at all. if so, is that a cost cutting measure? A lack of air bridges seems unprofessional and unimpressive to me, something I was hoping we would get this time round with new developments.

more renderings of walkway…
http://www.capitasymonds.co.uk/whatwedo/ourprojects/projectsearch/project.asp?projectid=696

Wouldn’t be surprised. In the new Cork terminal there was PP for (at least) 4 airbridges and they built four airbridge piers and then proceeded only to purchase 4 airbridges themselves for cost reasons. Apparently pressure from Ryanair and Aer Lingus who don’t want them is a major factor (in Cork anyway).

The air bridges will not be built for now, but may be built at some later date if the customer base for that pier changes. For now, this pier is meant to allow for an expansion of low-cost short-haul services by Ryanair, Aer Lingus and the like, who are adamantly against the use of air bridges because of the associated service charges.

Also, air bridges slow down the turnaround time as the airline is dependent on airport employees to manoeuvre the bridge to/from the plane. I’ve landed in Dublin a number of times where we’ve taxied to the air bridge and been told that there would be a 5 miniute wait for some DAA person to operate it.

Any chance we are going to get to see what T2 will look like anytime soon?:rolleyes:

DAA have finally released more information (and pictures:D ) of T2
Pictures here
Fact Sheet

Statement also.

I think like it, Big improvment by the sounds of it.

New Terminal to Transform Dublin Airport

The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) is to build a new €395m terminal at Dublin Airport capable of handling up to 15 million passengers per year.

Construction of T2 is due to begin in the second quarter of next year and the new terminal will open in the Autumn of 2009. T2 will transform the passenger experience for travellers using Dublin Airport and raise capacity at the airport to a potential 35 million passengers per year.

“T2 will provide an elegant and contemporary gateway for 21st century Ireland,” said DAA chairman Gary McGann. “It provides a cost effective solution to Dublin Airport’s current capacity deficit that meets the Government’s requirement for delivery by 2009 and it represents a further significant milestone for the DAA in its commitment to deliver on its key shareholder and customer objectives.”
T2 will be a bright, modern building designed specifically to meet travellers’ needs. It will feature large airy spaces in areas such as check-in, baggage reclaim, security and the departures lounge. The 75,000 square metre terminal will also have dedicated facilities to meet the needs of business travellers and families travelling with young children. The public areas will create a calm and relaxing environment for arriving and departing passengers alike.
The planning application for T2 will be lodged this week with Fingal County Council together with a planning application for a new pier building (Pier E), an improved internal road network, a major utilities upgrade and a range of other associated works. The total cost, at current prices, of the terminal and the other new infrastructure for which planning permission is being sought is just over €600m.

T2 will be built close to the roundabout on the existing approach road to Terminal One. As part of the plan for T2, the internal roads at Dublin Airport will be upgraded and reconfigured to create separate dedicated approach routes for T1 and T2. Locations for a future Metro station and a ground transportation centre are also provided in the development plan.

T2 is a three-storey, curvilinear building that sits astride the main access road to Terminal One. The building has two main components – a check-in area and a departures and arrivals area – connected by a link that forms part of the central spine of the new building. The way in which T2 sits astride the road means that all arriving vehicular traffic for the existing passenger terminal will pass under this link on its way to T1.

In the spacious new check-in area passengers will find almost 60 traditional check-in desks and ample self-service kiosks and self-serve bag drop positions. Having passed through a centralised security area, they will enter a large departures lounge with retail and catering outlets providing views over the airfield. Passengers will then continue onto the boarding gates in the new Pier E to board their aircraft.

The new facilities allow arriving passengers move from gate to landside through the centre of the terminal without a change in levels. Another feature of T2’s design is that all passengers will pass through the heart of the building whether they are departing or arriving.

Aer Lingus is expected to be the primary user of T2 and the new terminal will also be home to other transatlantic and intercontinental carriers. The new 24,000 square metre Pier E facility, which is perpendicular to T2, will have gates for up to 19 short-haul aircraft or up to eight long-haul aircraft.

DAA chief executive Declan Collier said that while T2 would open in 2009, passengers using Dublin Airport would begin to see improvements in facilities from later this year. Work is currently underway on Area 14, a new lower ground floor check-in area in T1 that will open this December. The construction of Pier D, which will open in Autumn 2007, is also progressing and it will create a vibrant new departures area with 14 new gates for fast turnaround short-haul aircraft.

“We are acting to deliver new capacity at Dublin Airport to meet the needs of the travelling public and our airline partners,” he added. “In recent years, the facilities at Dublin have not kept pace with the huge growth in passenger numbers. But with the advent of T2, Pier E and our plan to upgrade the entire airport campus, we will deliver a high-quality, cost-effective, contemporary gateway for Irish air travellers and visitors to this country alike. In this context we welcome the fact that the cost-effective basis of the plans we announce today, will be affirmed by the independent cost verification consultants appointed by the Government.”

He added that the plans for T2 and Pier E are key elements of a major Airport Development Programme at Dublin Airport that also includes a new parallel runway, an extension to the existing Terminal One facility and a range of other upgrades and improvements due to be delivered over the next 10 years.

The design and specification of T2 and its associated infrastructure has been developed following a detailed consultation process with the airlines and other key stakeholders at Dublin Airport. This process revealed significantly more aggressive growth plans on the part of the principal airlines based at the Airport than had been anticipated when the DAA published its initial draft airport development plans a year ago.

“Our commitment to addressing the requirements of all our airline customers, service providers and passengers as effectively as possible, has led to a significant increase in the scope of our initial development plan and an acceleration in the delivery of some key supporting infrastructure,” said Declan Collier.

“To deliver the plans we announce today and the other essential infrastructure required, the DAA’s longer-term development plan for Dublin Airport will exceed the €1.2bn outlined in last year’s initial projections. We are currently engaged with the Regulator and other stakeholders with regard to the detail of this future investment.”

T2 has been designed by a project team comprising Arup, Pascall + Watson and Mace. The consortium was appointed as project manager and designer for T2, Pier E and all associated integration works earlier this year. The firms have previously worked on other major airport projects such as Heathrow’s Terminal 5, Beijing’s new Terminal 3, Hong Kong’s Chek Lap Kok International Airport and Seeb International Airport in Oman.

Ends
Issued 30th August 2006

anyone got that video of the new terminal that RTE were showing ????

It looks very nice but I must admit to being unimpressed with the capacity it will and could provide. The current terminal deals with 20 million passengers. Why not build a second terminal with at least that much capacity. Fine, the proposed T2 might suffice for a while but there is no room onsite to expand it. Also the cost seems excessive, airports aren’t meant to be gorgeous – Function over Form!

p.s. all RTE videos are availible on RTE.ie/news

asmodeus; who said airports aren’t ment to be gorgeous, there are all sorts of stategic reasons to make them attractive and these days many of them are, also, their beauty often follows from their function; the need for a transparent articulation of flow can be best achieved in a elegant, airy building.

can you list the buildings that are meant to be gorgeous and the ones that aren’t.

In answer to your first question, I said that aiports aren’t meant to be gorgeous. You don’t have to agree!

Consider the original Terminal building, it’s a rather splendid construction lost in the current maze of extensions to the Terminal. Personally I find it painful on the eye to see something like this, a work of art so seriously compromised. A similar effect will be had if/when the new Terminal goes up.

Given that aiports will require to be extended or modernised every so often surely the most sensible thing to be would be to either build a monolith that could cope with all forseeable predictions (like Stazione Centrale in Milan) – although this would mean having forward vision and willingness to invest money in the future (in low supply in todays Ireland) or alternatively build something functional that can be easilly extended. I’m thinking of the Concourse building in NUI, Galway which has been extended so many times without taking away from the integrity of its design.

All pictures and info about the new termainal are located here:

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/image_gallery.html

RPA dude was on Newstalk a few minutes ago, and not only is the main Metro stop going under the liffey with entrances north and south, but the Airport stop will be in the new terminal, not the Great Southern Hotel. He also said there will be a stop at Drumcondra.

There is video of the new terminal:

Here http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…artures_pt1.rm

Here http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…artures_pt2.rm

and Here http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…rrivals_web.rm

🙂

Ryanair is creating a new hub at Bremen
From Irish Times breaking news : <>

So, for 1 million passengers they need a terminal costing euro 7.9 million
or, for 15 million passengers they need one costing about 120 million, (not allowing for any economies of scale. )

YET we hear (from article in earlier post <>

This is only 330% more expensive….. can they bring it in on that budget??
KB2

this underground has no chance of being built in the next decade so i would not pay it too much attention.

quite simply there is no way it will be built before the new terminal is in place as it would cause too much disruption..

And when bus start shuttling people through the port tunnel much faster than the metro will be able to , i think people will start to question the phenomenal expense.

For now it is trams (which if enough were built would be perfectly adequate).

@a boyle wrote:

this underground has no chance of being built in the next decade so i would not pay it too much attention.

quite simply there is no way it will be built before the new terminal is in place as it would cause too much disruption..

And when bus start shuttling people through the port tunnel much faster than the metro will be able to , i think people will start to question the phenomenal expense.

For now it is trams (which if enough were built would be perfectly adequate).

Here we go again!

Did you not read the headline on the IT? Two hours to the K Club WITH A GARDA ESCORT!!

Ryder Cup skipper Woosnam stymied by M50 traffic jam
Alison Healy
He may be the European Ryder Cup captain but not even Ian Woosnam could rise above an M50 traffic jam yesterday. Heavy rain, Monday traffic and M50 roadworks meant it took the golfer almost two hours to travel from Dublin airport to the K Club, despite having a Garda escort.

‘Tis getting as bad a Sneem of a Tuesday!

At least our woeful transport system is democratic….roll up, roll up, delays for all:(

Ryanair submits objection to airport terminal plans
26/09/2006 – 12:07:47

Ryanair has submitted an objection to Fingal County Council against the Dublin Airport Authority’s plans for a second passenger terminal.

The airline claims the DAA’s plans are badly designed and overpriced and will result in tax increases for passengers.

It is proposing that it build the terminal itself in a different location and at a third of the price put forward by the airport authority.

Ryanair claims it can construct the facility for €250m, with a greater passenger capacity than that proposed by the DAA.

yeh micky’s argument is not a planning one whatsoever, whereas UPROAR at least have real environmental concerns. Problem is Dublin County Council, in their ultra corrupt phase, decided to build a suburb in a proposed flight path back in the 1970’s and 80’s so they’re to blame. I’m not suggesting Portmarnock grew as a result of criminal activity, it’s just odd that such a mangled decision occured in Rambo’s back yard. They knew the Airport would grow and would require infrastructure.

The issue however for UPROAR is not the Terminal, it;s the 2nd runway, currently at oral hearing. The terminal is a no-brainer to anyone who’s been there recently but UPROAR are trying to push an alternative site for the growth of the airport, as you may have seen in correpsondences to newspapers because the proposed flight path is over their heads… an absolute pisser, but i reckon the growth of Dublin Airport is utterly unstoppable and the situation may arise where Portmarnock ends up in terminal decline (no pun intended, or avoided!!!) while the rest of the region gets the airport it deserves…

it sucks balls, i used to live in portmarnock so i sympathise. It was a great place with the beach and loadsa open space to get up to all sorts as a kid but it seems like it’s fucked now. i’d be very surprised if An Bord Pleanala would contravene the National Development PLan and refuse either the runway or the terminal… then again they granted that puked up sack of crap at Stillorgan and the Monkstown Ring Road, both of which were abominations so christ knows what goes on in their collective heads…

Permission Granted for T2. http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1025/DAA.html .

Semi-disappointed that Corbalis house is to be demolished. I would of loved to see it retained in within the new Terminal, possibly in the check in area, as a quirky yet poignant reminder of the Airports history..

Sorry if this does not follow on logically from previous posts. I just had a discussion with an interested party as part of a college project looking at Regional Airports specifically Waterford. This man put forward the view that if the South East Airport had been located around Carlow / Kilkenny (rather than behind the dunes in Tramore) with transport links to Dublin it would take the pressure off Dublin completely and be set in the biggest catchment area in the state. Currently there are airports on the West Coast in Kerry, Shannon, Galway, Sligo, Knock and Corofin and only Dublin serving the entire east coast where most people live. I thought it was an interesting idea.

nice idea…but if the DAA had their way there would be no Cork, Kerry ,Shannon, Galway etc IMO

@Barry Hall wrote:

only Dublin serving the entire east coast where most people live. I thought it was an interesting idea.

There are two airports in Belfast which is just as accessible for people from Drogheda upwards

@jdivision wrote:

There are two airports in Belfast which is just as accessible for people from Drogheda upwards

But if you every go to the long term car park (esp in the summer) it’s full of Yellow Reg’s because there is more routes out of Dublin than Belfast

Anyway it’s 35 mins to the airport from my house (on the lovely M1 motorway) or at least 2hrs (a lot of which isn’t even Dual Carriageway) to Belfast which would you choose?

New, enhanced renders of T2 on the DAA website
http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/image_gallery.html
doesnt paint a pretty picture of its rear…

All I will say with regards to the new terminal at Dublin is beware! What you see is not neccessairly what you will get. The renderings of the Cork Terminal looked great but the over budget terminal, when finally delivered, was a disappointment in terms of design and user friendliness. In many respects, the old terminal was just as functional as the new one (even in terms of capacity). Interestingly, the new multi-storey carpark was not ditched, whereas the proposed parallel taxi-way, control tower, and air bridges were deemed not neccessary. Nevertheless, despite these parts being jettisoned, the bill for the airport was much higher than budgeted. No surprise there given our recent history of over budget infrastructure projects, but what galls me is that the final product is a huge disappointment. Dublin should get some good project manangers on board, as otherwise the airport there will experience the same problems as Cork.

The muppet who called for that attack did so because “it’s where American troops stop on their way to Iraq”. Me thinks it’s Shannon he meant, but he couldn’t even get the call to bomb somewhere right!!!

There are renders of Pier D here http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/Airport_Development/Pier_D/pierD_image_gallery.html

Thanks for that flyboy. Quick question – Two of the images (966 and 965) show what looks like the same terminal from the same angle, but image 965 has no air-bridges and image 966 has air-bridges galore! Artistic licence perchance?

The airbridges are not being built as the airlines do not want them. Pier D is aimed at short-haul services with fast aircraft turnaround times and the airlines prefer that passengers walk to the plane as this is quicker.

Presenting Dublins new Terminal:

Are they going to run a shuttle bus from the terminal to Pier D via that walkway?:eek:

That looks like one hell of a long walk to get from the terminal to your plane

@PVC King wrote:

Che Breanan announced the establishment of the DAA as a brave new dawn and a watershed where things would actually happen:

Fast forward almost 4 years later what exactly has changed for the passenger?

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5550-0.pdf

O’Leary is one airline operator the platform is the real problem

No rail link Irish rail could have had this built if their 2004 Dublin Rail plan was implemented

No new terminal

No second runway

Nada

Zilch

Nothing

Sorry a portacabin walkway half a mile long

Which is more than Cork gets! Passengers in Cork would no doubt be delighted with portacabins instead of a similar walk out on the tarmac in the rain.

I agree though, the current mess is no better than the old days.

Well, having witnessed how the CAA/DAA/Aer Rianta pissed away zillions in building Cork’s new terminal and facilities, I would be wary of entrusting them with building anything bigger than a sandcastle. We all know DUB has a serious problem re facilities and needs some action quickly. The problem is I don’t trust the DAA to do the job effectively.

The problems at Aer Rianta stem from the days when Noel Hanlon was in charge. Many of the top management just gave up under his rule and anyone with talent left like rats from a sinking ship. The result has been paralysis in terms of decision making as the present management is extremely weak and are mere puppets in north Dublin politics. The organisation is run from the perspective of what benefits the unions and the vested interests. The users, pax, and the general public get the short end of the stick I’m afraid.
As for Cork, I think that while new facilities were badly needed but the project costs just skyrocketed – which is what happens when there is no good oversight/project management and when the parties involved know the state will be footing the bill! Meanwhile the debate has got bogged down on a political promise (always dodgy) rather than focusing on how it all went tits up in the first place. No one got sacked, reprimanded, or otherwise blamed. The show just goes on, and I fear that we will be heading for another disastrous and costly sequel in the case of DUB’s new terminal.
As for the CAA and their management credentials, I have no idea how competent they are although early signs are not too encouraging (hiring another set of consultants to tell them what to do when dealing with HQ sounds like a cop out, and an expensive one at that!). However, I think SNN and ORK should be responsible for their own actions and should be cast away from under the DAA’s shadow and let to fend for themselves. At the very least, the CAA will be answerable to themselves and the people of Munster and the whole ‘It’s Dublin’s fault’ will no longer be a reasonable answer/excuse. Alas, Cork Airport in particular has many issues re its location (the windiest and wettest part of the county) and if independence comes with a 100m Euro debt the the airport will basically struggle to survive as a going concern.

Whilst I’d gladly give everyone in the DAA a good hiding for their ineptitude and the fact that they are more interested in running a fucking shopping centre than an airport (“You can take your time” – bollocks to that I went to get a flight not a side of salmon) the buck stops with the Minister for Transport. Given that Brennan was sacrificed on the alter to appease the unions and that buffoon Cullen was brought in to dither and procrastinate whilst the airport became like something out of the black hole of Calcutta just goes to show how out of touch these people really are. It’s a pity you cant throw out the DAA along with the minister.

God almighty anything to do with infrastructure they completely fuck up in this country

@corcaighboy wrote:

The problems at Aer Rianta stem from the days when Noel Hanlon was in charge. Many of the top management just gave up under his rule and anyone with talent left like rats from a sinking ship. The result has been paralysis in terms of decision making as the present management is extremely weak and are mere puppets in north Dublin politics. The organisation is run from the perspective of what benefits the unions and the vested interests. The users, pax, and the general public get the short end of the stick I’m afraid.
As for Cork, I think that while new facilities were badly needed but the project costs just skyrocketed – which is what happens when there is no good oversight/project management and when the parties involved know the state will be footing the bill! Meanwhile the debate has got bogged down on a political promise (always dodgy) rather than focusing on how it all went tits up in the first place. No one got sacked, reprimanded, or otherwise blamed. The show just goes on, and I fear that we will be heading for another disastrous and costly sequel in the case of DUB’s new terminal.
As for the CAA and their management credentials, I have no idea how competent they are although early signs are not too encouraging (hiring another set of consultants to tell them what to do when dealing with HQ sounds like a cop out, and an expensive one at that!). However, I think SNN and ORK should be responsible for their own actions and should be cast away from under the DAA’s shadow and let to fend for themselves. At the very least, the CAA will be answerable to themselves and the people of Munster and the whole ‘It’s Dublin’s fault’ will no longer be a reasonable answer/excuse. Alas, Cork Airport in particular has many issues re its location (the windiest and wettest part of the county) and if independence comes with a 100m Euro debt the the airport will basically struggle to survive as a going concern.

Very good post.

Tho a lot of Corks problems could easily be solved if they scrapped the CatII landing system and put in a CatIII. I am flabbergasted that this wasnt done as part of the new terminal project.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1001/airport.html

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/press-releases/132007.html

So it begins…..
Never was a fan of Aer Rianta or DAA at the start but fair play to them for ignoring Ryanairs threats against a project that is blatantly needed urgently. I have great respect for Ryanair as a company but their motives are not for the public good regarding this project and I would hope common sense prevails on their behave. The terminal will be what it will be – its under construction – so lets just get on with it without the petty childishness. They should concentrate now on the 3rd terminal and leave this one be. Any thoughts?

On a different note this means the demolition of Corballis House – the old house (that looks rather out of place, it has to said) – approaching the current terminal.

I dont know about a Terminal 2, seems to me that with current capacity (and the fact that Gatwick manages fine), that Terminal 1 should be bulldozed and replaced by a proper one. Two terminals seems unnecessary, but I suppose its at least planning for the future built.

I dont know about a Terminal 2, seems to me that with current capacity (and the fact that Gatwick manages fine), that Terminal 1 should be bulldozed and replaced by a proper one

Gatwick has a North and South terminl which are basically 2 terminals and if we bulldozed our terminal what would we do while the new one was being built?

It does seem that the relatively recently opened Pier C, the only vaguely comfortable boarding gates at Dublin Airport, will be leaving us to accomodate this.

You could never accuse Ireland of forward planning, could you?

Or the mad walk to gate A60, without one of those ‘walk faster travellator things’. Wouldnt want to be an old person trying to do that.

I heard celebrity Linda Martin will open the new terminal singing

“Terminal 2, Flights on time”

@THE_Chris wrote:

Or the mad walk to gate A60, without one of those ‘walk faster travellator things’. Wouldnt want to be an old person trying to do that.

Agree with you about how elderly people would find it tuff having to walk all the way down to gate A60, however, anytime I go through Dublin airport, the two moving walkways that exist already, are either out of order or under maintenance, thus reducing corridor space and slowing down the human traffic.

Airport’s €120m Pier D ready for take off

Tuesday October 23 2007

RELIEF could finally be on hand for some of the long-suffering travelling public using Dublin Airport, as the €120m Pier D opens.

The airport is spending some €250m this year on upgrading the airport which has been making the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

This Sunday the public will finally begin to see some return for that outlay.

It is estimated that five million people a year will avail of the new facility.

The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) hopes the opening will improve the airport’s image which has taken a battering over its crowded hallways.

Dublin Airport boss Robert Hilliard agrees there was room for improvement: “The best I think we can say at the moment is that it works.”

Pier D, the DAA hopes, will start redressing the balance, as part of the overall €2bn 10-year plan for a complete modernisation.

Just four flights will go through the pier on its first day, before it “starts proper” on Tuesday.

“We want to make sure that any tweaks that are there will be worked through,” says Mr Hilliard.

Pier D can ultimately handle 12 flights at a time, but the facility will offer only six gates until next April. That’s because the DAA needs to dismantle existing infrastructure on one side of the pier before that side can take planes, Hilliard says.

“What we’re trying to do is cause as little disruption as possible,” he adds.

Pier D will be used almost exclusively by short-haul planes, with Ryanair and Aer Lingus likely to be the most frequent users.

For the short-haul passengers who do make it to the new pier, the DAA promises spacious surrounds, complete with a Soho Coffee Co coffee shop, a Thomas Read’s bar and a Hughes & Hughes bookshop. For the plane-gazers, there are near panoramic views of the airfield. It is a bit of a hike away — some 350m — but this will be traversed using new travelators through a corridor dubbed the “Skybridge”.

Looking at Pier D this week, it’s a mite difficult to see much of the vision the DAA waxes so lyrically about. The magnificent views are there for all to behold and the spaciousness of the place can’t be denied, but beyond that, Pier D is quite literally a hard-hat building site.

The DAA, however, is completely confident of the Pier’s opening next week “on time and on budget”.

Might finally be some relief. Still I dont think its going to alleviate the ‘dogs dinner’ image approach to construction at Dublin Airport.

Pier D opens as Pier C beomes the site of T2 – net result: bugger all difference

rory pier D is twice as big as pier c. and we will probably see a temp pier on the site of the new terminal.

So has the massive portacabin aka the Pier A extension closed? I can tell you I won’t miss it when it’s gone!

And will the flights that used to go from the portacabin now user Pier D?

I used that prefab on tuesday. It really is a big heap of shite. All flights will now use pier D, but since Terminal two will incorporate pier C, that will close at some stage during the construction process and a new pier will be built jutting out from the centre of pier c.

Yes good news. BTW construction is really flying along. Probrably the quickest ive ever seen anything being built in this country tbh.

Is it just me or is one of the most important projects for this country looking quite poor based of these
low quality images???

this image has potential but…




and this kinda..

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/Airport_Development/Terminal_2/image_gallery.html

going of these images how is Dublin going to become a world class city with world class architecture??
its going to be a mess???

Shall we compare and contrast with Hobart International airport

[ATTACH]6711[/ATTACH]

Could you not use any bigger picture’s… :confused:

hobart??what sort of comparison is that,personally I dont think its too bad,this is Ireland after all,it was never gonna be truly spectacular an an architectural masterpiece.Only question now is how long construction will take.

@cubix wrote:

hobart??what sort of comparison is that

Just a little dig at the Tasmanian original poster cubix.

beef or chicken hugo???

average joe this link is for you:confused:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/innusa/tags/unionstation/

europe and words capital city !!!! not a proxy state like the isle of man Tasmania
where they ship all the criminals from the uk im sure chopper likes that airport 😉

one of the buildings looks decent enough

but some of the images are worrying a 3rd architecture student could do 10 times better
or a 2nd year technician : ) I know 5 people in my second year class that did better airports than 2 of these terminals

Trust me I am a professional!!!

go figure…

I don’t know why they made it so hard to look out of the new walkway.

I would have loved to be able to look out at the old terminal building through big plate glass windows.

As it is now, you can barely see out at all.

snorefest

@Blisterman wrote:

I don’t know why they made it so hard to look out of the new walkway.

I would have loved to be able to look out at the old terminal building through big plate glass windows.

As it is now, you can barely see out at all.

It beggars belief. That strip of plastic or whatever it is has been placed precisely at eye level. It’s as if the position is on purpose. I was on the hike recently to the new gates – which are very nice – and it is unbelievable that it’s accidental.

Is it poor acrchitecture? – probrably but not exactly bad by any means.

Is it better then 98% of other European Airports? – definately a different league tbh. Much better.

I like it, but will it ever be built?

Thanks Peter,

I guess I’ll see some of it when I come through this summer.

Slight bifurcation on current theme :
With the current expansion of the airport (New Terminal & 2nd runway perhaps), anyone out there know if the current control tower will be high enough to sufficiently cover the movement of aircraft and diverse vehicles on the tarmac, or would a taller structure be necessary ?

Ive been to the madrid airport a few times and it rocks 🙂
mable floors extending to the train link to…

http://www.hughpearman.com/2008/03.html

whats wrong this explains it all@

design and build…
rogers only did the concept and didn’t carry through i wonder why?
can you see any link between t2 and t5 its just a number?
We cannot be for sure until the thing is built but at this stage one can only wonder….

what is the link between these two pictures??? wheres wally and jane???? second picture go to the right who every finds them first gets a mars bar!!!! authority and partnership hope the roof is smooth

http://www.partnerships.vic.gov.au/CA25708500035EB6/WebObj/DSC_1415DTF/$File/DSC_1415DTF.jpg
http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/images/Checkin_Area.jpg

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/heathrow5/index.html#heathrow59

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/images/new_hotel.jpg

New €130M Hotel and Car Park Planned for Dublin Airport
Up to 900 jobs could be created at Dublin Airport with the planned €130m development of a four star hotel and multi-storey car park linked directly to the airport’s new passenger terminal T2.

About 550 jobs will be created during the construction phase of the project and when opened, the new hotel is expected to employ about 350 staff.

Plans for the new hotel, which will have up to 470 bedrooms, and the linked multi-storey car park with up to 2,900 spaces, have been submitted by the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) to An Bord Pleanála in recent weeks. The project will be developed in conjunction with Northern Ireland property developer and design and build contractor McAleer & Rushe.

The DAA will own the car park while the hotel, which will operate under InterContinental Hotel’s Crowne Plaza brand, will be owned by Irish hotel operator Tifco. Funding for the project will come from the DAA and its joint venture partners.

Subject to planning, the new 11-storey Crowne Plaza hotel will have a floor area of 28,000 sq metres. In addition to up to 470 bedrooms, it will contain associated business facilities, bars, restaurant, meeting rooms and a state-of-the-art fitness centre.

The spaces in the new multi-storey car park will be divided between short-term public parking, car hire, hotel customers and service vehicles. The new hotel and car park will open in 2010, with the first 750 spaces of the car park operational by April of that year to coincide with the opening of Terminal 2.

The hotel and multi-storey car park will connect directly with T2 and will be located close to the existing passenger terminal. The hotel will also be situated beside the proposed Metro station at Dublin Airport.

“This development will greatly enhance customer choice and convenience for airport users,” said DAA Commercial Director Jack MacGowan. “A terminal-linked hotel with meeting rooms will be particularly beneficial for business travellers,” Mr MacGowan added.

As is now required under planning legislation, the DAA has recently written to An Bord Pleanála to ascertain whether the planned project should be considered as Strategic Infrastructure under the 2006 Act. Depending on that decision, planning permission for the development will be sought from either An Bord Pleanála or from Fingal County Council, which is the local planning authority.

Co Tyrone based McAleer & Rushe is one of Northern Ireland’s largest commercial property companies and contractors. Over the past decade it has built 40 hotels with a total of 6,500 bedrooms.

Tifco is an Irish company that owns and manages Clontarf Castle Hotel, and the Crowne Plaza and Express By Holiday Inn brands in Ireland. It owns four hotels in Ireland and one in Germany and has two further properties under construction.

Crowne Plaza has almost 300 hotels worldwide and has properties in 51 countries. It operates its brands in Ireland through Tifco. Crowne Plaza has hotels in Dublin and Dundalk with a third due to open in Blanchardstown this summer.

Could you explain why is this news or news worthy?

I don’t see any reason to use this forum to distribute gushing PR releases.

A generic soulless business park style airport hotel and a multi-story car park?

The Strategic Infrastructure Act. Give me a break.

@jimg wrote:

Could you explain why is this news or news worthy?

I don’t see any reason to use this forum to distribute gushing PR releases.

A generic soulless business park style airport hotel and a multi-story car park?

The Strategic Infrastructure Act. Give me a break.

WTF!? Dont get in my face mate. Ive posted an article from the DAA website. I dont see anything wrong with that tbh. If you do – take it up with me, no one else. There is a PM facility. Of course you are probrably too cowardly to do that.

Darkman: grow up – criticism should be answered with an argument – what age are you – 13 1/2?

@jimg wrote:

Could you explain why is this news or news worthy?

I don’t see any reason to use this forum to distribute gushing PR releases.

A generic soulless business park style airport hotel and a multi-story car park?

The Strategic Infrastructure Act. Give me a break.

It’s a news item relating to a proposed development at the Airport on a forum about planning and architecture on a thread entitled “Dublin Airport Terminal” – basic stuff, although Darkman you should chillax there a bit

Sorry – was a bit OTT. My argument would be as above. It is entirely relevant to post articles on this topic relating to Aiport development. Unfortunately for Jim these come mostly from the DAA website – does that make me a PR consultant? Im not a great fan of the DAA let me tell you……….

Darkman, sorry if the comment seemed personal – it wasn’t my intention. While I find cut n’ paste press releases unaccompanied by comment or opinion in threads here slightly irritating, I woudl normally have passed on commenting to that effect. What pushed me over the edge was the suggestion in the piece that the Strategic Infrastructure Act might be appropriate for something like this. A section of motorway or railway, a power station or sewage treatment pipeline or a port development – maybe – but an airport hotel?

jimg. your comment was way out of line. Information dissemination is something this forum needs in order to contribute and encourage valid criticism. Until such stuff is posted comment cannot be passed. Darkman put it in quotation marks for a reason ie, to show it wasn’t coming from him.
darkman, to me no need to apologise. I think johnglas’s commen is not warranted. Others may disagree obviously but as far as I’m concerned you did what 95 per cent of posters would do when they’re not involved

does anyone know the specification of the luggage handling system?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHxdG2FQoLs

jdivision: unwarranted? Not at the time, but that time is well past and the blog has moved on.

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/presentations-speeches/AGM140408.pdf
(pdf)

DAA presentation to press on current developments. I have to say – whilst I hated Aer Rianta with a passion – the drive and determination to press ahead quickly with all the nessacary upgrades is impressive by this country’s standards. The only criticism I can think of atm is probrably that they should press ahead with plans for a third terminal even if it has to be built by the private sector. Nice terminal T2 but competition is ultimately what is needed at DA.

Slight bifurcation on current theme :
With the current expansion of the airport (New Terminal & 2nd runway perhaps), anyone out there know if the current control tower will be high enough to sufficiently cover the movement of aircraft and diverse vehicles on the tarmac, or would a taller structure be necessary ?

Yup they will need a new control tower.Rumour has it that it is to be 80m high.

There is definitely a new control tower complex going in with the second runway and yes the height will be 80m.

Planning was to be done this year for it but the new tower is only needed to coincide with the second runway which has now been put on hold.

Didn’t really realise how big it was until now

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu281/anetpics2009/023.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu281/anetpics2009/025.jpg

It’s looking sleek from this angle anyway.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d3/Construction_of_Dublin_Airport_Terminal_2.JPG/800px-Construction_of_Dublin_Airport_Terminal_2.JPG

Pier E progress from DAA website

not what it should have been but having worked on the design of that for 18 months and having to deal with US immigration and their needs, well I am happy enough with it.

Found these browsing at breakfast.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42452696@N04/sets/72157622223354983/

On “Today with Pat Kenny”; RTE. Radio 1 this morning, the host was given a sneak preview of the new terminal building. He was shown around the facility by an (understandably enthusiastic) spokesman for the DAA. Although there were the familiar hackneyed references to the “high tech” and “state of the art” nature of the project, it was in interesting audio tour nonetheless. Worth a listen if you get time. If you want to catch it online the clip began about 15 minutes into the programme after a piece about the ongoing shennanigans at FÁS. It was interesting to note how the DAA spokesman (I didn’t catch his name), enthused about the new terminal opening around the same time as the conference centre and new Lansdowne road, with the suggestion of a synergy between the three projects.

The DAA spokesman was CEO Declan Collier I tuned in about half way through it and found it worth while to listen to.

Might make for an interesting view of the belly of the beast…

New road for Dublin airport

A new access road at Dublin airport will officially open tomorrow.

Passengers who are being dropped off at the airport by car will now have to access the terminal by taking the new road, which takes motorists through the centre of the soon-to-be-opened Terminal 2.

Passengers using the short-term car park and those arriving by taxi, bus and coach will, for another two months, continue to access Terminal 1 by the existing approach road.

From March all passengers departing from Terminal 1 will access that terminal via the new approach road.

The traffic changes are part of the ongoing programme to upgrade the airport’s campus roads and will be clearly signposted on overhead gantries and other signage as vehicles enter the airport.

Terminal 2 is due come on stream in November with a capacity of 15 million passengers. It will accommodate all of the airport’s long-haul traffic and offer a unique new customs clearance facility for US-bound passengers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0125/breaking60.htm

approach road bit like the sex scene in the naked gun, trains into tunnels and all that. Went through it today, certainly something new for ireland anyway.

@Bago wrote:

approach road bit like the sex scene in the naked gun, trains into tunnels and all that. Went through it today, certainly something new for ireland anyway.

:)Very explicit. Have you seen the ad elswhere looking for a new Architecture critic for the Sunday Times:p

@Bago wrote:

approach road bit like the sex scene in the naked gun, trains into tunnels and all that. Went through it today, certainly something new for ireland anyway.

Indeed. One could call it a Freudian slip-road.

Oh I can see this thread following the Lansdowne Road thread . . . . down the sewer

On the building itself, are we sure that it’s wise to design a bottleneck into a mass transportation building?

New pics

http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/TDA/Image_Bank/t2_construction_gallery.html

A video tour from DAA : http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…s/introt2.html

From the off, I’ve been sceptical about passenger flows in the new terminal.This “tour” only heightens my fears.

For starters, departing passengers have to rise 2 floors after check in for security and shopping, only to have to descend 2 floors again to get to the gates.OR (USA bound passengers) descend 3 floors and rise another.
This is done so that arriving passengers only have one level change.

In the current terminal departing passengers have NO level changes and arriving passengers have one(after getting off the plane).

Not only do passengers have to change floors time and time again, but departing and arriving passengers actually intersect on the 1st floor of the terminal!!Never have I seen this happen outside of tiny regional airports.By the looks of things, departing passengers will have to walk through the ever present crowds of waiting plebs to get to security.

This layout is there because of the “bridge” over the T1 road.However, the roads were re-arranged to suit the new terminal, not the other way round.Therefore the bridge was unnecessary, and a more traditional and more effective terminal could have been designed.

Even if the bridge had to be there, a more flow friendly layout could have been adopted, with arrivals on the ground floor, check-in on the first and security on the 2nd, with the pier layout changed respectively.
Or arrivals on the top with check-in and security below.

In other words there were a million different possibilities that could have been used to design a more user friendly Terminal.I am dubious about T2 in that respect.

I hope I’m wrong, but I think T2 will be an incredibly annoying place to pass through..But I guess I’ll have to wait and see…It looks well though..

@PVC King wrote:

I would love to see Aer Lingus develop swap codeshares with a US carrier opening up new US destinations to unlock their impressive European route network.

They already have codeshares with Jetblue and United Airlines that open up a vast amount of cities to Aer Lingus passengers.They even have through-checked bags and it’s all on one ticket.

Most of these flights can be completed in two legs, something that services from Dublin to US secondary cities couldn’t improve on.If I want to go to, say, Charlotte I either fly direct to New York (Aer Lingus) and onto Charlotte (Jetblue) or I fly to London and straight to Charlotte.Two changes.

Dublin just dosn’t have the demand for routes to lots of secondary cities on its own.The only way for it to get them is to try become a major hub (as every other European airport is trying to do).I’m not saying it shouldn’t try but the reality is that 4 major hubs, with even more relatively major ones, in Europe is probably all that’s required now.

Unless Dublin gets that parallel runway it wants PLUS an extension to its current runway it can’t become a hub.

I like it….the bit I’ve seen of it…that’s mainly the exterior. It looks cool…quite futuristic and Sci-Fi

A great stylish back drop for a movie with that long stretch of road. Interesting to see if any Irish director will utilize it.

At least when new comers land at Dublin they will see a modern Terminal and have a good first impression. 🙂

I have been told by one person who came here to work that they thought they were about to enter some third world country when they seen the jumble of Airport buildings on landing 😮

But looks like the new terminal will suffer a similar fate as the old central Termainl building which opened its doors in 1940, I think a war broke out or something so it must have been idle for many years. As will this new T2 be quite empty for many years at huge expense. 🙁

@cryans wrote:

But looks like the new terminal will suffer a similar fate as the old central Termainl building which opened its doors in 1940, I think a war broke out or something so it must have been idle for many years. As will this new T2 be quite empty for many years at huge expense. 🙁

The 40’s terminal was designed with an eventual capacity of 15 m.p.p.a. This was raised to 20 m.p.p.a and eventually 23m.p.p.a with the opening of area 14 check in.T2 is designed to cater for 15 m.p.p.a. T1 will be cut back to cater for a max of 20 m.p.p.a again after T2’s opening.

This will leave 19 million passengers between the two terminals which have a combined capacity of 35 m.p.p.a.So both terminals will be handling just above half of their capacity.I believe that this is a comfortable level with enough room for growth in the coming years.

It’ll be quite a while before we get up to 35 m.p.p.a but if the DAA try hard enough to market their prime position in Europe, customs and border preclearance and extrra capacity then growth should happen quickly(provided they get a new runway capable of handling fully loaded long range aircraft such as the Boeing 777 and Airbus A340).

Agreed. But in terms of runway Dublin cannot handle a fully loaded 777 with its current length.Air France do fly 777’s into Dublin regularly but these do not have the amount of fuel on board required for undertaking transatlantic flights.

The required takeoff length for a fully loaded A330 ranges from 2,220 to 2,500 metres.
The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B747 ranges from 3,090 to 3,320 metres.
The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B777 ranges from 2,500 to 3,536 metres, but only the least used models require 2,500 while the most popular models require 3,536.That means that only 88 out 1,141 777’s can go from Dublin.

Dublin Airport’s longest runway is 2,637 metres which means it is able to handle an A330 comfortably, but not a B777 or B747.

Your definitely right about the second runway though.It won’t be required for another while (optimism?). But operators such as Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific have said that they would fly into Dublin if it had a longer runway, which can be achieved with a few land purchases and a runway extension.

Absolutely.I can’t imagine a couple of fields costing too much money at any rate but could surely be bought for pittance now.Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.I’d imagine that the DAA’s proposal for a second runway was put forward because they thought that they’d get it in the boom years, but now that money is tight they should be considering the least expensive projects that offer them the most.

@EIA340600 wrote:

Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.

There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway (blue outline indicating land ownership)

http://tinypic.com/r/16715oo/3

http://i26.tinypic.com/r/290vlso/3

@Bluetonic wrote:

There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway.

Fantastic…I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case…Couldn’t be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..

@EIA340600 wrote:

Fantastic…I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case…Couldn’t be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..

What would be the cost of disruption, or what would be the actual disruption to flights if an extension was to be constructed I wonder?

@PVC King wrote:

I may be wrong but you imagine that health and safety would dictate that there would be some form of ‘sterilised area’ at the end of a runway in case in the event of an aborted take off the plane skids off the runway. They may still need to acquire some land and certainly put the road at the end into an underpass. In the greater scheme of things such costs would be de minimus.

googlemaps: gatwick runway

i’m no expert, but there isn’t much space at either end of the runway at gatwick, which measures 3316 metres according to http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm , though of course this is longer than dublin. hopefully land purchases won’t be necessary

The extension could be completed within normal working hours for the most part, as the crosswind runway could be used for the vast majority of flights.The runway in Manchester was completely resurfaced over a number of nights without disruption so it’s certainly do-able.

At the moment you can fly to Australia with one stop but there is definitely room for competition.The current operators (Etihad) do extraordinarily well and often require multiple rotations a day on flights to Dublin and have done well throughout the recession.

New video of Terminal Two on DAA site and on U-Tube

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtR8Vq52LWM

http://http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/

interesting conversation…. sounds like some of the participants have quite intimate knowledge of the airport and/or the aviation sector.

the new paralell runway has permission from FCC… however DAA will be going back in to have the existing permission changed to facilitate A380’s

the new county development plan will likely safeguard an extension to the existing southern runway also

watch out for Air India if DAA can do the deal….. the plan is for Dublin to act as a scissors hub with flights from 3/4 Indian cities (Delhi, Ahmedabad etc) converging on T2, utilising the CBP capability and flying on to 3/4 US airports such as O’Hare, Newark etc

The timing of the opening is certainly ironic. Given the prvious scenes of emigrants departing from Dublin Airport prevviously there’ll be a very hollow ring to the goodbyes in the spanking new building. But, is it not something we need for the next 20 years no matter what happens??

Passing through Dublin Airport last week, I was confronted with the image of the curved and reflective elements of Terminal 2 the its equally sleek raised walkway to the new parking facility immediately halted by the crude boxed elements that constitute a continuation of that same walkway and the parking structure itself. Whilst I accept that there is a limited scope to enchance the multi-storey garage, especially given that it was delivered through a design-build format, I believe that the transition in the walkway could not have been handled more clumsily.
Fortunately, I do not have an photo of this horror to share.

De Paor project in the new Terminal at Dublin Airport, attractive if a little fussy:

OAK bar by dePaor Architects

@kefu wrote:

De Paor project in the new Terminal at Dublin Airport, attractive if a little fussy:
http://www.dezeen.com/2011/01/20/oak-bar-by-depaor-architects/

looks like that trip he went on in Venice is still wearing off

unfortunately the nature of such large airport spaces breeds this kind of thing – it forces people into “installation” mode. It instills the need to inject “human scale” when perhaps the form of the surroundin gbuilding is strong enough to exist without it. It’s better than anything at Stanstead anyway

Passed through T2 yesterday. How disappointing from an architectural and design point of view.

Firstly, I do not believe the building is particularly functional. I disembarked the plane to find myself with a Pier D favourite: a stairs. Why oh why. 100 people carrying heavy bags, with push chairs and a wheel chair do not want to climb a stairs or queue for one lift. How does a stairs encourage the free flow of people and ease of passage.

The stairs was followed by a long walk, unaided by a stopped travelator. This transit was finished at the passport control where another old DAA favourite was waiting: a maze of belt barriers. I then entered a relatively cramped baggage hall, which seemed to be a carbon copy of T1.

Beyond this I found myself in arrivals and lost. I wanted to head over to T1 but there was not a single sign pointing in that direction. So I was forced to exit in the island between the car park and terminal. Found the busses there, but again typical DAA no electronic display relating to public transport. So had no idea where busses went from, just an aircoach guy selling tickets from a temporary stand.

Apart from the function issues above the design did not particularly impress me. Lots of glass but little to see through it. Very bland, no colour and certainly no character. No jaw dropping moments.

And as said the baggage hall was particularly small and cramped. As this is the area most arriving passengers spend time I would have expected a grand hall or at least an airy one; I found neither.

Again as someone said above the car park and terminal bear no relation to each other with the terminal tunnel simply stopping and carpark square design taking over. No gentle merger or integration.

Generally it reminded me of a shopping centre, Clarehall perhaps.

Bad design, poorly implemented and incompetently managed.

DAA showed they can’t manage T1, they should not have been given T2. The gross lack of public transport information and organisation is a national disgrace given the importance of tourism to the country.

Or even a single board member who has taken a bus from the airport!!!

In relation to the baggage hall, T2 is suppose to be a long haul terminal. So the vast majority of passengers will have large amounts of hold luggage. Which makes all the lifts and stairs particularly stupid.

Despite the money we paid we do not have either a functional terminal or an architectural masterpiece.

I had this to say on another forum and, unfortunately, I may not have been completely wrong.

Originally Posted by eia340600:

http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…s/introt2.html

A “tour” of the terminal.

From the off, I’ve been sceptical about passenger flows in the new terminal.This “tour” only heightens my fears.

For starters, departing passengers have to rise 2 floors after check in for security and shopping, only to have to descend 2 floors again to get to the gates.OR (USA bound passengers) descend 3 floors and rise another.
This is done so that arriving passengers only have one level change.

In the current terminal departing passengers have NO level changes and arriving passengers have one(after getting off the plane).

Not only do passengers have to change floors time and time again, but departing and arriving passengers actually intersect on the 1st floor of the terminal!!Never have I seen this happen outside of tiny regional airports.By the looks of things, departing passengers will have to walk through the ever present crowds of waiting plebs to get to security.

This layout is there because of the “bridge” over the T1 road.However, the roads were re-arranged to suit the new terminal, not the other way round.Therefore the bridge was unnecessary, and a more traditional and more effective terminal could have been designed.

Even if the bridge had to be there, a more flow friendly layout could have been adopted, with arrivals on the ground floor, check-in on the first and security on the 2nd, with the pier layout changed respectively.
Or arrivals on the top with check-in and security below.

In other words there were a million different possibilities that could have been used to design a more user friendly Terminal.I am dubious about T2 in that respect.

I hope I’m wrong, but I think T2 will be an incredibly annoying place to pass through..But I guess I’ll have to wait and see…”

I had this to say on another forum and, unfortunately, I may not have been completely wrong.

Originally Posted by eia340600:

http://www.dublinairportauthority.co…s/introt2.html

A “tour” of the terminal.

From the off, I’ve been sceptical about passenger flows in the new terminal.This “tour” only heightens my fears.

For starters, departing passengers have to rise 2 floors after check in for security and shopping, only to have to descend 2 floors again to get to the gates.OR (USA bound passengers) descend 3 floors and rise another.
This is done so that arriving passengers only have one level change.

In the current terminal departing passengers have NO level changes and arriving passengers have one(after getting off the plane).

Not only do passengers have to change floors time and time again, but departing and arriving passengers actually intersect on the 1st floor of the terminal!!Never have I seen this happen outside of tiny regional airports.By the looks of things, departing passengers will have to walk through the ever present crowds of waiting plebs to get to security.

This layout is there because of the “bridge” over the T1 road.However, the roads were re-arranged to suit the new terminal, not the other way round.Therefore the bridge was unnecessary, and a more traditional and more effective terminal could have been designed.

Even if the bridge had to be there, a more flow friendly layout could have been adopted, with arrivals on the ground floor, check-in on the first and security on the 2nd, with the pier layout changed respectively.
Or arrivals on the top with check-in and security below.

In other words there were a million different possibilities that could have been used to design a more user friendly Terminal.I am dubious about T2 in that respect.

I hope I’m wrong, but I think T2 will be an incredibly annoying place to pass through..But I guess I’ll have to wait and see…”

In T1 departures is upstairs isn’t that a level?

It is, but you don’t have to change levels to get there.You can be dropped right outside.

dropped? I get the bus 😉 so I arrive at the bottom floor