O’ Connell Street, Dublin

i’ve always had pride in my country, travelling far and wide and stressing my southern accent when it suits to make new friends. i’ve lived in dublin for four years, always north of the river, and the only occassion i have to feel shame for my heritage is when i walks the streets of my capital. its disgusting. the ppl are dispicable, the authorities are out of all order, and improvements are blocked by anal members of a defunct state. bring on the next recession so i have an excuse to take my filthy degree and leave in a blaze of wake-induced vomit.

and just so i’m not accused of leaving the topic of the thread: O’CONNELL STREET IS A BIG SMELLY KIP

its disgusting. the ppl are dispicable

what a rubbish generalisation, you’re referring to a million plus people, re read your post, some reason wouldn’t go astray.

you’re a rubbish generalisation 🙂

walk down o’connell street and through temple bar at 3am tomorrow nite then tell me i’m wrong.

obviously i dont think every one of the million dublinians are dispicable. i cant even spell the word properly for gods sake. it is an impression one sometimes get and thats it, an opinion. one i share with many, including unlucky or observant tourists. i’d defend dublin as well as anyone when it is called for, but dublin is not improving as the capital of a strong capitalist state. its more a sign of buracracy than the mindset of this country, and thats what makes my blood boil.

e.g spains building and repairing 10 stadia for the price of our one. the spike shambles. the issues with the new bridge. the woefully inadequate efforts to restore o’connell street. the failed living over the shop scheme that could, with proper management, have brought some dignity back to areas like capel street.

think what you like of o’connell street, and i’d like to hear your and everyones opinions, but i find it difficult to see good points about the city centre.

incidentally, no offence intended to anyone from dublin,obviously i wasnt referring to you. anyone who attended a school of architecture or has enough interest in it to look at this site is no doubt above all the peons who roam those fetid footpaths

Portugal, not Spain. Thanks for bringing up the living above the shop scheme – that really pissed me off! It was a great idea, but the price of the initial government sponsored offering was far too high. What are those three buildings doing now, anyway? They still look derelict, jut painted.

“it is an impression one sometimes get and thats it”!

yeah exactley sw101, an impression one sometimes gets! the whole city centre is not a kip, and the vast majority are decent people going about their business …

I go out every Friday or Saturday, and am often one of those people “roaming” the streets at 3am looking for a taxi home, sure there are scum bags out there, but you make it sound like bloody beiruit. Most people at 3am, while a lot of them are fairly hammered, are just out having a laugh and looking for a taxi. I have seen two fights in town over the last two years or so ( like I said I’m in town every weekend ) one of which was the one that took place in front of the Central Bank which RTE got on camera and have shown again and again and again and again and …

You’re right, O’Connell Street is a mess, but I’m prepared to wait until the IAP is finished and judge it then, its crap that its going to take till 2005+, but the north city in particular needs a lot of work and its not going to change over night …

You’re calling the city a kip now, do you not remember the 80’s ??? think about how much its changed since then when Dublin was nothing but the centre of a depressed economy and it really showed.

I’m as pissed off as you are with the delays, objections, crap infrastructure blah blah blah but most of these problems are problems of success, and I’d take them any day over being forced to hop on a boat to england.

cheers !

sw101, “e.g spains building and repairing 10 stadia for the price of our one.” ?
Sure you don’t mean Portugal ?
Again, Portugal is not Spain or part of it. They are 2 VERY different countries, being Portugal about 300 years older…

……the gas thing about all these problems that have been mentioned that exist regarding Dublin City et all…… is that they are all rectifiable.
If people just used their common sense at the end of the day.
The way to a cleaner, better, efficient and attractive city starts with oneself really and one’s environment; in your home and immediate surroundings.
(that begging bowl culture is a millstone for us Irish too).

sorry rita. i imagine i’d virtually slap you aswell if you had said this was britain.

and no peter i dont remember the 80’s, i was only born the second year in. however you do seem to remember, but please dont use that to excuse any of the crap you have to put up with these days. its a very governmental angle to take, look how shitty it used to be? count yourselves lucky. and what on earth is a “problem of success”?

the 3 buildings on capel street have been extensively refurbished, while maintaing the same arrangement and floor plan. i think their reinstatement is a lot better than the typical approach in the last 10 years which was to gut the whole lot, facade and all, and stick in a monstrosity like no.1 jervis street or jervis place apartments around the corner

I don’t think it’s a ‘governmental angle’ to remind ouserlves how bad things were not too long ago. It’s important to get a bit of perspective on this – the city has been transformed in 10 years. Totally. Unrecognisably.
Anyone remember the quays looking like Dresden after the blitz for more than a decade?
Every public building permanently covered in black soot? No cool restauarnts/ bars/ clubs/ markets. Now that was a kip.
Most of the new stuff is good, some of it is very good.
It’s frustrating that major projects like O’Connell Street still take longer than they should to get finished, but look at how much has been done since the start of the 90s and lets wait and see before beating ourselves up.
We may be still behind other Eurpoean countries in learning how to make our capital city work, but we’ve had a lot further to come since we got a bit of cash in our pockets. Sorry if this is before your time!

Lads – generalisations are always going to piss alot of people off. But generally speaking North of the Liffey is not a nice place, and saying this having lived north for quite a while. The people being despicable remark is obviously a generalisation – but not being a Dublin native – I can say in MY experience that a higher proportion of people in that area compared to others may not stray too far from that description.
I think too many people are being self congratulatory… poor Ireland is rich now etc… Look how far Dublin has come etc… But check out cities in countries that by the “rich” definition are most definitely not rich. Dublin doesn’t compare that favourably. And if we are to measure our city by O’Connell St – well… we do indeed have a long way to go.

and what on earth is a “problem of success”?

problems associated with a successful economy – i.e traffic, pressure on infrastructure, resulting from huge numbers travelling in and out of the city centre to work /shop every day, transportation of goods blah blah blah

better than mass emigration, mass unemployment, a depressed economy, a disillusioned & falling population … problems associated with economic failure.

I’m not saying accept shite government, I’m just saying don’t be oblivious to how far we’ve come & the pace of change … you might not remember the 80’s but does 20% unemployment & a currency crisis in 93 ring any bells? its not long ago

we have a lot of catching up to do, believe me I’m not defending the government, i doub’t they’re capable of organising a piss up in a brewery … well brennan seems to be showing some promise, so you never know we might have a few decent infrastructural projects on the go in a few years time, we’ll just have to wait and see.

In terms of government – there seems to be a lack of leadership. There always seems to be some minister squabbling over the plans of another cabinet member. The government needs to stand up and say what they believe in and FOCUS! Remember College Fees? Bertie couldn’t even say what he actually thought… and he’s supposed the be the leader of this country!!! If we can’t sort something like that out then obviously city centre regeneration isn’t going to have the prpose and vision we’d all like (so long as Fagan’s gets a lick of paint!)

d_d_dallas, you’ve got one thing right – generalisations ARE going to piss people off, particularly sweeping ones based on some dubious alleged first-hand knowledge.

“Generally speaking, north of the Liffey is not a nice place”… give me break. If you can dismiss half of Dublin that easily, you can’t know much about the place…

Here, here… I am a Northsider and proud of it. And there are plenty of fantastic features on the Northside. There are also plenty of very nice areas as well. And surprise surprise just like our wealthier brethern down south there are plenty of crumby areas and lots of room for improvement.

“Alleged” – not at all.

OK – I did generalise, but in MY experience the generalisations about North Inner City Dublin made earlier in the thread had some truth in them.

Hmmm – tensions are running high on all threads today!!!

Well it is very warm today…
One point – the north inner city is not the same as north of the Liffey! You can’t talk about inner-city slums and places like Howth or Malahide in the same breath.

Just noticed I’ve become a “Senior Member”!
Well, there goes the neighbourhood! I’m off for the evening now to rob all yizzer gaffs.

Ok – my bad for not being more specific – but North Dublin in this case wasn’t meant to be North Dublin County…

Ah the sunshine…

AndrewP how come your a senior menber now ………………..oh the injustice.

oh wait it must be a 100 posts thing…..
dammit there’s only so much pretensious wittering I can do.

although….. I could just keep posting these ‘talking to myself mails

It was my understanding that there is a masterplan in existance that is being phased in gradually. For example the regeneration of Henry Street, the spike etc. Granted, this may not be extreme enough to transform O’Connell Street into the country’s first avenue but its not quite the chaos that it appears and it is in the middle of development.
A gradual upgrading must be preferable to an over night clean sweep that may not be so well considered. I was living just off O’Connell Street last year and we all got a copy of the plan in our post boxes. It seemed fairly reasonable, nothing earth-shattering, but then I suppose the Spike is the coup-de-grace.

As for policing, Graham I think your right, that’s more of a city wide issue. Singling out O’Connell Street for tougher measures may cause more problems than it solves

A masterplan does exist….two actually. One is called the Dublin Development Plan, which is DCC driven and focuses mainly on planning and development. The other is the City of Possibilities, a DCC plan launched last year focusing on the social aspects of the city.

I don’t know if the plans address the mix of uses of the street (ie burger bars, sex shops, discount tat stores, off-licences, bookies, gaming arcades etc.)
This seems to be the main problem with the street, and it just seems to get worse and worse.
Does the council have any powers on the kind of business that sets up in a given area?
Also, no matter what you do with the street itself, you’re still a stone’s throw away from some of the dodgiest residential areas in the city. I lived off O’Connell Street until recently and without a doubt things deteriorated in the last year.

You can’t out right ban certain buisnesses but you can use the carrot and stick approach. Introduce facade guidlines and building upkeep that would make the area less attractive to the lower end of the market.
Get a couple of flagship high-end shops into the area through grants and subsidies and it will begin to regenerate itself. That’s the tactic being used in alot inner city area’s on the continent.

There were comments about the fact that while the DCC is committed to attracting a higher class of business to the street, the strength of their commitment is in question. The former Bank of Ireland building was the case in point. While the IAP specified a high profile use, what we got (or are getting) is a bookies!
I think you should be able to ban certain types of business from areas. For example a limit on the number of Centra/ Spars would be welcome. There is a glut of these tacky shops on the street. Ditto the fastfood emporiums.

well nothing could be done about paddy powers: changing a bank into a bookies doesn’t count as a change of use. actually, i am quite pro having a bookies on o’connell street but that’s a different story.

Yeah perhaps a quota system could work for the fast food dives but I reckon that once a couple of sought after buisnesses are there and a reasonable framework for upkeep , regeneration will happen organically.

.

It will take time for the City Centre to clinmb through the Divisions. It is Division three at the moment, but is bidding for a place in Division Two. The DDDA in their Draft Strategy for the Docklands talk about ‘raising the level of disposable income’ which is a euphemism for wealthy people spending lots of money. Until that demand is on O’Connell St that type of wealthy bourgeois glow won’t happen.

It is also not the fault of the inner city communities that they have suffered from being rundown and poor in the past, though it is much improved now. If the City Council can put in decent infrastructure and services, at least we can start saying that O’Connell St is clean and tidy, and has ‘character’ (notwithstanding all the dodgy euro shops on Talbot St). It is also up to the Council to make sure crime damage is repaired, and that civic pride is encouraged.

The Ramblas in Barcelona is lauded as one of the great streets in the world, but it is not that impressive really. Some of the buildings are very fine, but once you go below Carrer Portaferrisa it becomes really seedy, and the look of some of the tramps and heroin addicts there would really depress you. The Plaza Reial there is a gorgeous square but has to be one of Europe’s worst and most self congratulatory tourist traps.

But back to the main point: once we reach Division Two, we can gather fresh resources together in five year times, and have a crack at climbing towards the First Division.

….after that, the Premiereship and the Champions League ……..which are a long way off at the mo.

To be honest I was thinking the first Division will be the extent of our achievement in my lifetime! To even dream of the Premiership is to move Ireland South as far as Jersey, to get some regular sunshine, and French haute cuisine…

It is appalling behaviour – absolutely appalling. How much effort would it take to have a new onstreet noticeboard. No effort whatsoever.

If this much pride is taken in developing the street, I don’t expect much. And if any of the PR people are called into RTE to explain their vision, I will be the first to barrack them.

How dare they treat the citizens of this city with such arrogance.

I think the CC are failing miserably to galvanise public support for a better street but that has always been the way DCC have operated. You only have to look at the city motto to know why. The CC manage the city as they see fit for the citizens of the city and we should be thankful for that…. they know best.

As for the sculptural lighting on the plaza… what will they look like. What will any of the street furniture look like. Its very hard to make a considered judgement without knowing what the end result will be. Have you seen them Graham?

I think flag poles would be better myself…stainless steel of course.

I still find the lack of information tiresome. They don’t seem to realise that people are curious about what is happening.

Mind you they may well be keeping quiet deliberately to avoid the attentions of the two-bit environmentalists that want to save a handful of trees etc, never mind the fact that 200 new ones scheduled are for planting. Anyone who has seen north king st will know how surprisingly mature these nursery trees can look.

I think they are keeping mum because they’re plans are on hold due to funding difficulties…

Money is a big issue – Cork CC went looking for govt funding for Patrick St rejeuvenation, and got a miserly €1m… hence the slow progress on that projetct. So there’ll be war if DCC got carte blanche to do what they like for as much as they like.

There was a story in the Independent around a month and a half ago saying the O’Connell Street regeneration funding was in jeopardy. It wasn’t. At the last city council meeting, the city manager was at pains to say that the money for O’C Street has been ringfenced. He said that at times it was difficult to spend the money, because everything requires lengthy consultation and so on. The money is there – I don’t think there are any questions about that.

Aaah they (the light yokes as you so eloquently call them Graham!) are probably along the lines of those on Temple Bar Square. You know the ones that have been well maintained by TBP and are in perfect working order and don’t look an absolute state!

I have seen an artists impression of the proposed stalls on O’CSt. They look quite good. There are even pictures of them up in the street for passers-by to view… well done the Corpo.

The words “an Irish solution” leap to mind…

We are getting a half arsed plan as always …..thanks to the Green Party, Ciaran Cuffe & Co for inanely stirring all this trouble up. I really don’t care about all this any more…..The optimism and hope is gone.
Maybe we ge what we deserve.

Just to clarify, is the entire street effectively to be narrowed to two lanes? Not just the plaza section…

Yes. The median will stay and the footpaths on either side will be widened.

I don’t know wheter this is a coincidence or not, but two large infformation boards have gone up on the hordings in the middle of the street…

In that case I hereby officially apologise to the city council for accusing them of arrogance and not keeping us informed!

If the Metro is to stop at O’Connell St and D’Olier St does this mean that all that lovely (and expensive) granite will have to be torn up to faciltate construction of the stations… and horror of horrors a cut and cover tunnel! There’ll be the newly planted trees to consider as well. I wonder if anyone has considered this…

Also, I notices a story in yesterdays Indo which seems to suggest that the upper end of the street’s redevelopment (and this was in the contect of paving etc) was dependent on the Carlton site. No action there, no action on the street. Can this be true?

Good point Stephen,
Seems to me that if the timescale which MR Brennan has proposed to the RPA is to be achieved then the whole street will be dug up again just about when the new scheme has settled in. Thats the problem with the approach here, make it up as you go along !

Also what about the effects on the city of building cut and cover stations at D’olier Street, O’Connell Street and Stephens Green all at the same time !!!

JJ

I agree regarding the refurbishment of those buildings on the corner of Henry St. and O’Connell St. They look in shite condition and would compliment the GPO if they were done up.

Here is the Indo article from 8 Jul:

THE erection of the Spire marks the beginning of the rejuvenation of O’Connell Street.

Work is already underway on the paving to provide a new civic space in front of the GPO.

The square tree-bordered plaza is to include grey, white and pink granite stones, imported from Spain and China.

The plaza is part of a radical initiative to attract more people, business and tourists to the city centre.

The reduction of traffic lanes on O’Connell Street, designed to give pedestrians priority over traffic, is also underway.

The timetable for rejuvenation is as follows:

* June 2004: All works south of the Spire as far as Prince’s Street are expected to be completed by this time next year.

The plaza will include new lighting, the lime trees, which controversially replaced the older London Plane trees, and a number of retail kiosks.

* December 2004: The area from Prince’s Street to O’Connell Bridge, including the Luas tram lines, will be completed during the second half of next year.

Again, the newly paved and wider central area will feature new street lighting, lines of trees and more retail outlets.

This phase sees the completion of the rejuvenation of O’Connell Street south of the Spire.

* 2005: The development of the area north of the Spire is scheduled for 2005 but is largely dependent on plans for the Carlton site, now under control of Dublin City Council. Detailed targets will not be set until after the future of that area is decided, a spokesperson said.

I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they have to tear up what they are putting down now due to the Metro – but that is of course if they ever build it (I wouldn’t hold my breadth).

I don’t like to be so negative but when you see the Spike fiasco, you couldn’t realistically trust these people (piss-up and brewery spring to mind).

I remember clearly the extended pavement placed in front of the portico of the GPO last year only to be ripped up at most 2 months later for the initial work on the Spike.

On an upside though I must have a look at that building on the corner of Henry and O’Connell St.s – unfortately the ‘Come And Visit Us’ sign is alive and well but will probably go when they remove the other tacky neon signs from the street.

Any chance you can scan the old picture of this building.

I always find it regretable looking at the photos of the buildings on the street in the 1950’s and comparing with now – you’ve got to ask yourself – was it progress?

It mostbdefinately was NOT progress and I guess that is what the IAP has admitted. O’Connell St in the 40s and 50s was a beautiful street and the centre of the city – day and night. You can see uniform shop fronts, canopys on most buildings, less traffic and a transport hub at the Pillar. The IAP is simply trying t recreate that.

On another front: last night saw the premiere of Veronica Guerin and I must say (at least from the BBC coverage) the stars looked far from celestial against their backdrop of hoardings, broken pavements and a rather shabby looking Savoy.

I saw that too ……the premiere looked cheap alright because of the state of the street…….no red carpet, a tawdry Savoy etc…and a few people waiting at a crooked bus stop looking on.
Very bad image for the city.

That’s true too about shop front canopies which can be a lovely decorative addition as well as being practical …..pity we don’t see them any more.

…from the bbc…here
…are you being totally honest with us lads!…….typically OTT from the resident Archeire drama queens!;)

was just saying what I saw – aka fact.

I wasn’t talking about the film.. just the premiere. And it looked crap. Noisy, dirty rundown O’Connell St.

Am I a drama queen…. 🙂

Hey, the BBC journo hardly dreamed up the ‘glitz’ and ‘red carpet’.
Unless he was drafted in from the new York Times….

was actually directed more toward GregF….you’ll be glad to hear….response was….typical…..but if you want more evidence…i can show you pics of red carpet…and a report sayin there were hundreds of people there… 🙂

Ah I was only kidding. Actually O’Connell Street looked great with all the glitteratti, papparazzi and thousands of fanatical onlooking members of the public. The shining Spire in the backgound soaring into the clear blue sky. It was equal to a night at the Oscars or the Cannes film festival as Bono, Colin Farrell, Cate Blanchett and other major stars strolled down the red carpet from their stretch limosines into the luxurious foyer of the Savoy cinema. Definitely a night for the beautiful people. Champagne anyone!

the bbc doesn’t lie;)

The row certainly looked well in the 1950’s – cheers for that Graham.

should definitely send that to the times / indo Graham …

Great posting – the only thing I will say is that a lot of the new corpo generation genuinely seem to care, and know what they are at, and I would hate to tar them with the brush of the last two generations…

It will be a real turning point for the northside once O’Connell St is complete. Most Dubliners are only vaguely aware of what is going on as far as I can see, and a really well designed O’Connell St will really make them sit up and take notice – and perhaps notice all the other Northside developments going on too – Smithfield, The Markets (hopefully), The Ilac Centre/Parnell St/Moore St, Talbot/Foley St, Spencer Dock…

An excellent critique Graham and I agree you should forward it on to the papers…

But I think its a fair point to say that there is a new mentality in the DCC which is gradually undoing a lot of the mistakes of the 70s and 80s. There is also a lot more money about. For example, I couldnt imagine the old Feeley regime having the idea of the Boardwalk or Smithfield. Still the tendancy to drag their heels and ignore simple and obvious solutions to problems remains….

a row of limes running the full length of the street on the right and left will be fine … All of the london planes should be removed, has anyone heard any more on the rumour that the ones outside the gresham were going to be kept ?

I think this would ruin the symetry of the plan …

I was amused to read Graham’s ‘rant’ on the previous page about the city council’s poor record on O’Connell St. Even more amused to note them yet again claiming credit for the whole idea of the ‘Civic Thoroughfare’ in the first place.

My practise actually produced the initial draft masterplan in 1996. It was’nt a City Council proposal in fact the body pressing for it’s implementation was the City Centre Business Association.

Among other things our proposal was for the thoroughfare to extend through from O’Connel St all the way up Dame St, for the inclusion of a new footbridge east of O’Connell Bridge, and the establishment of a series of boardwalks along the Liffey.

We were credited with this precisely once, on an old ‘Questions and Answers’ when the then minister referred rather disparagingly to the ‘Kelly Plan’.

Out of interest we were paid the princely sum of £600.00 for the plan as our client was basically trying to press this proposal forward on a shoestring. I remember quite well the chief exec of the Business Association telling me at the time that none of us would get anything in the way of credit for the implementation of the plan if it ever came to pass as the ‘Big Boys in Civic Offices’ would grab the limelight.

That said, City Architects Division really worked their socks off trying to make the thing work (even if I don’t agree with the removal of the trees which came in sometime later or with the decision not to re-instate Gardiners mall).

Anyway, I thought you might find this of interest.

Thats an interesting story… but I guess its to be expected that DCC will take all the glory for this redevelopment. It is worth noting that there are other people involved, although to be fare the IAP did note this.

The paving looks so bright and clean and I think the use of such bright granite is going to dramatically alter the atmosphere of the street, together with all that stainless steel street furniture. But that cobbling is bound to take ages to complete. Perhaps extra large slabs would have been better.

I have to agree Peter: Its sad to say because the trees have been there for such a long time and deserve better than to be cut down but keeping the mature trees at the North end will completely ruin the symetry of the street, which is one of its strongest elements.

gardiner’s mall was area along the middle of the street surrounded by a low wall and for walking around in finery, is that right? did you have to pay to get in? i would have to agree with Graham and wonder if there is a need for it.

Re: Graham’s comments.

An Taisce may have had theri own views on O’Connell St at the time – I was’nt aware of them though – I’m a private consultant Architect, who is a member, not an employee – that said I must find out what their position was at the time.

As to the Mall – well its ‘horses for courses’ really – it always seemed to me like the best way of retrieving the character of the street as a public space which is pretty much what it was planned as rather than primarily as a thoroughfare – I happen to like parks, amenity space and ‘resting’ and promenade places within cities – I don’t particularly think its an archaic concept either – My own feeling was that it might ‘expose’ a hitherto hidden aspect ofteh street which might have allowed for continuation across the bridge (which is extremely wide) and solved the ‘problem’ of the still messy junction at D’Olier St and Westmorland St.

The trees?? – well its a personal thing – I find the idea of destroying something that took 40 to 10 years (depending on their location) to grow – perverse in the extreme.

I agree they wer’nt particularly well placed however they’re attractive in their own right, characterful, and with a different approach to the detail of the central strip and some judicious pruning and shaping could have formed the ‘bones’ of something quite unique along the central reservation or mall.

Actually, I quite like the idea of the mall being reinstated… just bear with me on this….

imagine a long linear park bordered by small box hedges, and gravelled in the parisian manner with trees and seats (now forget that dubliners are a dirty breed, so imagine it clean and cared for)…. imagine this like james suggests continuing right across the bridge to end at the neo-gothic pile at the junction of d’olier and westmoreland…. could be nice… worth rendering up to see anyway….

The new paving around the GPO and Spire looks great….pity it wil be soiled with chewing gum and vomit by the riff raff when finished

Out of interest we were paid the princely sum of £600.00 for the plan as our client was basically trying to press this proposal forward on a shoestring.

Geeze, I didn’t think that would even qualify as a shoestring! I would say many wood work teachers were doing better designing bungalows! Vomit, sorry. . . Read about what the real Princes of Paper Architecture are doing at 58-years of age. Never too old James!

Brian O’ Hanlon.

graham – dontcha think a bit of colour will help the street? 70’s supermarkets aside, I think a purely grey granite surface on that scale would be very drab especially in the poor quality light of an Irish winter. There are patches of pinkish colour and grey on the “nearly there” Patrick St project in Cork – and I have to say good choice! It really brightens up the place.

Also pink goes so much better with blackened chewing gum!

There are pink coloured granite slabs being laid on O’Connell St…you can see some already

When o’connell st is unveiled as a boulevard in two years time, there will be a lot of regeneration of basic things like the cleanlinesss of shop fronts etc.

There will hopefully also be a further wave of apartments in the unused upper floors of buildings, as people are suddenly attracted by the location.

What would do very well would be tourist style apartments that are rented on short-term leases for people who want to take extended holidays and breaks…

The upper building line on the street, apart from a handful of buildings, looks rather well now that the trees have come down; that can only improve.

Would’nt it be nice to see some shop fronts here with canopies/awnings too, for they can be an attractive feature on a shop front. Thomas Reads on Dame Street/Parliament Street springs to mind

I would be superb if a uniform set of awnings was introduced for the entire street (And D’Olier/Westmoreland too – v. impressive

The old Eircom building, called Findlater House, has a planning notice on it for re-development as separate units to include a foodcourt. Would have preferred to see it demolished and rebuilt myself but at least its better than a Bookies!!

It’s not just O’Connell street that’s dirty but the whole town. But sadly you know as well as the rest of us that this will never change,
it’s just the way things are, it’s hopeless.

Cleaning, washing, repairing , replacing are all
maintenance tasks that the city deserves.

Oddly enough, you will not often hear visitors
commenting on/complaining about the filth and
disrepair.

Hold a minute here….do you bunch of pessimists think that Dublin is the only city in the world where people throw chewing gum on the streets or puke?

I think you guys should stop criticising Dublini so much and thinking that the grass is so much greener in the rest of Europe.

Do you really think that tourists go around inspecting the state of our paving? Not that I believe its as bad as written above.

I live in Holland and Amsterdam is one of the filthiest cities I’ve ever been in, but I’m sure Irish tourists who have been there will write back saying how clean it is.

I wish people on this site would stop complaining all the time about how bad things are in Ireland. Of course the country has its faults but its still way better than it was 10 years ago and for me has something special that no other city can offer, so please give Dublin a break!

Not complaining about Dublin, Dublin’s great,
always has been, even 10 years ago. The city can learn from a little critique, there’s too much
litter, we can see that.

Amsterdam is different, it’s like a theme-park,
it’s not just about large numbers of tourists though you’re right, it is comparable in it’s litter with Dublin.

I live not far from you in Antwerp and it’s clean, this city is actually clean, it can happen.

This has got nothing to do with the state of the nation or the city, I’ve not complained about that, it’s just the litter.

Rome, is a very dirty city, with so much graffiti and filth on the ground. Still my favourite city , though. Stockholm – which is cleaner – is not.

Dirt really means nothing.

Most of them are unaware that streets can be better. Few people i know take note of the stone finish on streets or standard of rubbish bins while away on holidays. Not to say you’re not right, just that its not really apathy if the whole situation is just under the radar (or over)

and it’s “isn’t”, not “is’nt”. I dunno graham. I like scoring cheap points 🙂

Graham, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but once again, you are wrong.
I’ve had been living in Dublin for 2 1/2 years, and find O’Connell St. most appealling. You are wrong about looking people in the eye, in my experience the majority are warm and welcoming – you must spend your time staring at the pavement.
I am now in Dundalk, and it is remeniscent of a slurry pit. The paths are filthy, littered and soiled, and you certainly wouldn’t look someone in the eye up here.
I you lived in or around Dundalk, you’d soon realize what a luxury it is to live in Dublin.

Dundalk man – I’m sure Dundalk isn’t glistening sparkly eat ur dinner off the pavement type of place as you describe – but seriously… O’Connell St is “appealing”. I have difficulty sharing ur viewpoint on that one.
As big as London is, the main areas seem to be alot cleaner than the main areas here – and that’s with the LACK of rubbish bins in public areas/stations (thank the ‘ra for that one). Now don’t get me wrong – London is dirty – but with no bins on their streets they seem to do better than us – the chippie wrapper never seems to make it to the bin – rather the pavement next to it.

The centre of Dundalk has just been totally repaved so I’m not sure what you are talking about DundalkMan. Dundalk has cleaned up its act in recent years and while I can’t vouch for the people the streets are generally clean. Certainly cleaner than O’Connell St and its surrounding streets. 🙂

I hope they have factored in claning and floodlighting of the various monuments as part of the renovations.

The new paving is coming along very well… I think it will all look fantastic when completed. You can see how the plaza and the malls will meet as regards paving as well… a graduated slope rather than steps. Theres lots of variety and colour in the stones used as well.

Should all be done for Christmas….It will look brilliant

Hmm I wouldn’t egt my hopes up just yet about this Christmas. I can imagine the central median being fully paved but not the rest of the plaza. That going to be a huge job considering the need to control and reroute traffic. Also I can’t see any tree planting or street furniture being installed. A nicer Patricks Day parade might be a more realistic expectation.

I know you must all be so bored of the Spire by now but now that the paving around it is in place and you can see the fully finished product I have to say I am decidedly underwhelmed. That grating at the base is such a cop out. There is no uplighting which I am suprised by. And after the dirty self cleaning Spire….. the really expensive-state of the art-wont need to be replaced for ages lights in the tip have gone out. I hope those lowflying planes that are frequently seen over OC St will be okay!!

I wonder had the placement of the bollards anything to do with protecting the Spire from a collision as they protrude further along towards the direction of oncoming traffic.

Any of you guys heading out to Ian Ritchie’s lecture on the Spike Saturday week, then?

It’s on 11am in Pearse Street Library, and costs €20 to get in…

half the lights on the spike aren’t working, it has been like that since before the storm. please, someone fix them.

It said on the paper the other day that they have to ship in engineers from across the water to find out whats wrong with them!!

What a disaster! I cant believe the lights have gone out already. This will probably be an ongoing problem from now on.

The lights look a lot more impressive when there’s a decent wind to sway the top, the sparkling affect makes up for the relative dimness of the it.
Perhaps they could modify it so the internal lights would sway even on a still evening.

Or perhaps just tape a few fairy lights to it, they usually last for a few weeks aswell.

This may have been asked before but why dont they light up the whole Spire with flood lights?!!?!?

i like the way it dissapears into the nights sky. i dont think it should be floodlit at nighttime. its an absouloutely magnificent project, its just a pity that the finish and light at the top were a done with such poor quality

spike for the stirling prize!!!

why dont they stick an angel on top and decorate it like a christmas tree…come on people not a very exciting project if u ask me… im in town nearly every day and i look more at the ann summers shop across the street than i do at the spike.

why dont they they strap some air horns to the side of it and employ people to scream in your face if you dont look at it.
the scheme executes a very difficult feat in being both modern and timeless. it is extremely simple, layered with meaning and has many subtleties which give it a quiet richness. i see it a few times every day from mary street (one of the best views of it) and still marvel at its elegance and changing appearence depending on the light conditions.
i will agree that close up on o connell street it is let down by staining and that rubbish pattern at the base, but i think the spike is a monument we should all be proud of.

I’m afraid to say that the new paving which was only unveiled lately around the Spire has already been destroyed by chewing gum!!

I’m afraid I find the finished result of this long coming Sprike a mere dirty pole topped with faint and certainly unspectacular (in spite of all the promises and what was talked about on this noticeboard) lights.

I pass by it every single day as I work on Abbey St. and just wonder could they not have come up with something better (they certainly had the time to).

I’m not impressed and apart from those opinions expressed on this noticeboard, know very few who are.

As for those who say it is layer in meaning – I’m afraid I find such a statement laughable.

Where I get the bus on Parnell Sq. has to be the worst view – even worse than the actual view from O’Connell St.

Can’t agree with you graham. Its a lost oppurtunity as far as i’m concerned

what oportunitis do you think were lost with the spire?

Those five or so random pillars in the image are’nt going ahead are they? The ones which are facing opposite to the GPO!

Sorry Graham, don’t get me wrong, I was wondering if they are to be built or not? Does anyone know what the story with them is?
I think they would look a bit odd and a bit of a poor attempt to reflect the GPO.

Stainless steel traffic light poles have been erected as requested Graham! Now we shall see how the plaza will fare under pressure fo traffic. The newly laid areas will soon for the carriage was along this strech as the side pavements are repaved.

Also isnt its the dumbest thing ever. OC St is left all year without any major work taking place anbd then come Xmas shopping time the whole place gets dug up. The latest is the relaying of granite paving at the entrance to Henry St and at N Earl St.!! Why now! Why not last March!

People afraid to touch it? How undamaged? Are you talking about the same thing as the rest of us Graham?

I saw the familiar scrawlings of graffitti – people’s names in black marker – on it a couple of weeks ago (and not just on one day) either.

Yup – was walking past the base of the spike the other day… there are literally scrawl marks on it already – some dumb c%$t’s initials with a compass or something similar. Classy.
People were also quite UNafraid to touch it – faces up against the metal.

Spire of Dublin – RIP.

Totally offensive. There was some perma marker initials in black on it too – but I assume DCC took care of that one.

any news on the lights ? maybe LED’s just don’t do that well 120m up …

Just went and had a look at the spire up close. There is peice of graffiti on the side simply saying “TOTEM”!!

Pity the GPO plaza was’nt paved in time for this Christmas ….the Christmas tree and crib is rather lost up near the Father Matthew statue side of the street. (What a shite end of the street too …..nothing here bar Father Matthew and the Sacred Heart statues up to Parnell. We need more statues and sculptures here….to make the street interesting. How about a statue to Wolfe Tone, etc….in a fanciful neo baroque style)
Let’s hope that next year all will be working fine and they get a celebrity gimp to turn on the Christmas lights as they do in all other major cities.
That Spire is a disappointment too …a great concept and landmark for the city etc…but very poorly executed as has been seen.

See the Spire is alight again with a festive orange glow….aka sodium street lamp……Seems a bit dull too compared to it’s previous white light.

Yeah, what is going on there? The new lights look crap. Are they permanent?

Who put in the 40 watt bulb?

I saw them early this morning, ….looked good despite being leafless. The whole stretch of plaza in front of the GPO is nearly finished as well….looks great too.
O’Connell street will look brilliant when finished!

Speaking of the shite Father Mathew statue end of the street, what about the ‘Taxi Driver’s Shrine’ restored (in 2001 says the plaque) with a PVC window!!

What’s the story with the Spire? I’ve been away for 6 months and it looked shite last time, but then it had it’s new lights? Are the newer lights even shiter?

the new cube trees are a wonderful symbol of mans contemt for nature.

Originally posted by what?
the new cube trees are a wonderful symbol of mans contemt for nature.

No way man…..The new cubed trees are a symbol of man’s control of nature within a civic environment as what it was from the dawn of civilization. Parterres, topiaries, manicured lawns, bedding containers etc……
If ye want natural go out into the countryside!

(Get those weeds outta yer garden too!)

i wasnt being sarcastic, i think they are great. i think its a nice aknowledgement of the fact that these trees have just been placed in the plaza because we wanted them to be there. architectural morals and all that. i hate the countryside wheres the rigor?

😉

The trees will look great won’t they… a really dramatic change to the street. You can alos get an idea of just how far the new paving will extend out on the sides down at Abbey St. one other thing is floodlighting and pavement recessed lighting…. I havent seen any indication that this is being allowed for. Thats a pity. I think the statues on the street would benefit from some nightime ilumination.

Just came back to Dublin for Christmas and can I just say that the street looks absolutely shite.. And the lights on the top of the spire are so dull compared to before. Is there any hope left?

the street is a construction site, you can hardly judge from that ?

I agree, a little more patience is required. In comparison to five years ago O’Connell St is coming on great.

What was the name of the bar on Moore St?
The scruffy looking one at the Parnell st end that was used to hold up the Carlton development for about three years.

A party with Pavorotti would be good!!!

You could also contact the heritage council for a grant I am sure it would be an event of ‘gombeen cultural significance’

If all else fails you could always hijack a critical mass gathering

Trader John’s is the pub on Moore Street……booking available now.
Bertie and Co (ie His glam daughter and hubby) all invited!
Westlifers to profide the entertainment as well as ”salt o de earth” Brendan O’ Carroll!

Interesting discussion.

When in Dublin over Christmas (I generally get there once a year to look remaining friends up), I was pleasantly surprised by not having to queue to get into pubs or clubs and to be able to drink alcohol until whatver time of the early morning I liked. Is that progress?

But anyway, the real point of this post: I discussed the obvious shortcomings of the infrastructure with a friend practising in Dublin.

The Germans have great infrastructure, and they expect it to be clean, efficient and reliable and get very annoyed if trains are late. There are individual bus timetables at every bus stop and you can normally set your watch by the buses. In Berlin there are even public clocks on poles at most major intersections, at least in the West part.

So, my friend agreed, as he’d spent some years here too, the Germans do do infrastructure, it’s one of the things they do well.

We discussed the shortcomings in Dublin, the interminable LUAS saga, the lack of any urbanity in the new build sprawls etc.
His way of not dying young of apoplexy and blood-pressure related ailments is to lean back, buy a car for himself, his wife and, as they get older probably each kid (to ensure mobility and freedom from the less-than-perfect transport system), and just accept the fact “WE DON’T DO INFRASTRUCTURE” Full stop. Period.

Your statement that we dont do infrastructure is a bit vague. Who is “WE”? If the correct legislation existed and not so much corruption and arsing around in the initial stages then we would very much “do infrastructure”. The engineers and construction workers are excellent here. Give them the money and let them away at it instead of spending the same money talking about things and see what happens. The Port tunnel has given problems to residents etc but look at the scale of it. Look at how the builders, engineers etc will have the whole thing built in about half the time people spent talking about it. If they’d been given the money wasted on so much bolloxing about at the start plus the money spent on the tunnel, they’d have it finished by now along with the airport metro.

Before anyone starts, I’ve been all over europe and know what the infrastructure is like. I’m pointing out that we are capable of doing it too if the initial planning/objections/consultancy etc stages were sorted out

By “we” I meant the Irish. An saying “we” don’t do infrastructure does not mean a critcism of the consultant services available but is a criticism of politics and also of society to a certain extent. “We” obviously do not really feel it is that important to have good infrastructure or otherwise “we” would have elected the politicians to get it done. There is no point in getting het up about the crap infrastructure, accept it, we don’t do infrastructure 😉

the state has only had the finances required to build decent infrastructure since 1995 on, most of which was given back to the public in the form of much needed tax cuts … you can’t expect the infrastructure fairy to come along one night and sort everything. Most of the delays are down to objections from the moaning public themselves.

Well I can’t believe it – I am amazed – the IAP seems to be well… getting implemented!!

The footpaths between Clerys and Abbey St. are being finally widened and I have to say the sheer width is impressive! I thought the whole project would be never implemented but substantial changes are, at last, bearing fruit….

Its great isnt it and I would expect to see the whole section completed by the summer. It will look fab!

What is happening to all those old granite kerbs they are taking away though…. not into the builders waste skip I hope.

And ban telephone kiosks on the new O’Connell St

Took the words right out of my mouth………

O’Connell St revamp is a farce, says Brady
Irish Independent

DUBLIN’S first citizen Lord Mayor Royston Brady has labelled as “farcical” the lack of progress in the rejuvenation of O’Connell Street.

According to the Lord Mayor, seven years after the plans were first put together citizens and visitors to the capital are still waiting to see the finished product, which aims to be a Champs Elysees-style boulevard.

Mr Brady told the Irish Independent he would be seeking answers at a meeting of Dublin City Council tonight.

The Lord Mayor said O’Connell Street was an “absolute disgrace”, particularly in a year when Ireland was hosting the EU Presidency.

A major street party was planned in the Capital on May 1, he said, the day when the 10 new accession states become fully fledged EU members.

“Only half the street will be ready by May. The pyramids in Egypt were built quicker. How long does it take?” asked Mr Brady.

“My ultimatum is that it better be ready by April. They have four months to get it right – it’s not that big a street,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the City Council said the plaza at the GPO was due to be finished in April, while works up to O’Connell Bridge would be complete by December.

its kind of amazing, they finally get going on this in a serious way and the lord mayor starts giving out. has he anything to say about the carlton site, or is he going to keep quite until the cranes are there.

I heard two old codgers on the bus one day saying that ”O’Connell Street is disgraceful ”and ”why did’nt they leave it as it was”.
Ye can’t win with such people….You’re damned if ye do and damned if ye don’t.

Ahhhhh Royston is electioneering….

I agree,

A lot of this can be put down to silly season stuff namely that it is a local election year.

The IAP team deserve a lot of credit for their plan and it is Dublin’s inability to work effectively on a multi-agency basis that is at the heart of this problem. Not to mention a lot of off the ball stuff regarding the Carlton site of which the developer could do little to prevent.

Up to when the artistic scaffolding went onto the gaping hole that was on the Carlton site it was then an open wound for 20 years. At least the hoarding mitigates the appearance slightly. Fair play to Nissan for the sponsorship

O’Connell St is still not perfect but it is light years from where it was thanks to the IAP. To hear that it will be more or less finished by December is something we could only have dreamed of for far to long .:)

I agree as well, I think the street is starting to come on. You can nearly imagine what it will eventually look like. I think, however, that not allowing telephone kiosks on the street is being a little excessive.

The telephone kiosks need planning permission now don’t they??, Remember a few years ago the Telecoms companies were throwing them up wherever they fancied!!

Not too sure, but I agree that they should be regulated in some way. I remember that as well, I think it was just after other companies were allowed to install kiosks. There was alot of hole digging (followed by really bad repair of footpaths) by telephone companies at that time as well.

Diaspora – only the Henry St to Bridge stretch will be completed by December. It will take to Dec 2005 to complete the whole street. Dont ask me how it cold take so long to complete an average size street! Why cant it all be completed by years end.

Royston may have been electioneering but you all know the drill by know. If you want anything done in thsi country then you have to get it done in an election year

Latest observation: I thought there would be more trees. There seem to be very litle from the plaza down to Abbey St

Another 12 months that is a pity. But I think the planners should be praised all the same.

I am also confused as to why the plan was stage planned on such a small Street.

you see fintan o’toole was flying the abbey goes to the carlton site plan again. along with the usual arguements, he had a novel new reason for using the carlton site: the facade is quite short, so you wouldn’t have to spend so much on architecture.

jesus….classy argument eh!

Solution level the Fingal Co Co offices,

The new enlarged facade would cost a fortune

😀

I am sorry to hear that the former Dublin Co Co building is being retained, it is a horror story ans it is definitely the worst building on the Street. .:mad:

I am also happy that the Abbey is staying on Abbey St as that section of Abbey St needs an important building. Without the Abbey it really would ressemble Dodge City. 😮

But I differ with you on the role of the planners. I agree with you that the current situation is not perfect but my reading of the situation goes like so:

The O’Connell St IAP was basically a forward planning exercise. Traditional planning in Ireland has involved insufficiently clear plans containing many contradictory objectives.

This plan in contrast involved less objective inputs and more action like public works such as the Spire, new trees and new paving arrangements. DCC took a lead just like they did with the Smithfield Plaza. 😀

It was those measures that I was praising, I also think that the tax designation of properties was a good move. However why the time limits were not timed to ensure early completion beggars belief.

However the Carlton debacle is a disgrace and I have a lot of sympathy for the developer who was deliberately obstructed in the project.

The failure of the property owners to use the tax designation is bizarre and very shortsighted on their individual parts.

But given the previous take up of all previous designation schemes the take up on O’Connell St has been an unprecedented failure.

There is no forward planner who could have forecast it. It must be a first time that free money has been refused.

Regarding the traffic lights that really is no brainer territory, a specialty of the roads department.

I am amongst the happiest people that their destructive tendencies are firmly tranquilised these days. 😀

Finally I fully agree that co-ordination is the real villan here. Pre civic offices it may have been OK when DCC was scattered to the four winds but surely a walk from Block 1 to Block 4 wouldn’t start a wave of litigation for something or other

The shops will not spend money on upgrades until the street is complete. Why would they make expensive upgrades in a building site. They should also wait to see how the street looks when it is finished, before calling in the exterior designers.

The City Council are progressing slowly but steadily, and are apparently going to get it right, judging by what is emerging at the plaza. Royston is just electioneering. I heard him on The Last Word. He knew nothing about the street plans; he clearly knew nothing about the legal difficulties the Carlton Site was mired in; he had failed to register that since the Spire was finished there were massive billboards spelling out what is being done on the street; he also failed to acknowledge that the street has to be kept open for very heavy business. Or that there was war when the City Council insisted on continuing works over Christmas, to avoid delays.

If he wanted to fault the plan, he could have asked the City Council why they don’t have twice as many people working twice as fast. He could have questioned the budget. He could have enquired about the legal difficulties. He could have asked if as Mayor was there anything he could propose to government to help speed up progress. But instead he engaged in the typical Fianna Fail rubbish about ‘results’ and ‘tough choices’; which is what they always say when they are about to pull a fast one.

And the fact that as Mayor he says he cares but still seemed to know f all, that any ten minute brief, browsing of the internet, or info. from a lackey would have told him, makes me think as Mayor he might turn out to be a Fianna Fail populist t**t. After all, I am sure he does care, but I thought his rank would make him a bit brighter than that.

Royston Brady will be one of two FF candidates in Dublin for the European elections and also a candidate in the Dublin City Council elections….. both on June 11.

They ban the Dail-Local Authority dual mandate.

Then Royston comes up with a new one Euro-Local.

Buy Ryanair stock

😉

Best menswear (name???) at corner of North Earl St is only shop I can think of that cleaned up outside.

maybe when the plaza is done we’ll see action…

redeoin what is the obsenity t**t, i can’t work it out. is there a star for each missing letter or do you mean tit, in which case, i don’t think you need to bother with the stars.

try a “w” and an “a”…?

of course, sorry. i amn’t sure twat needs staring out either, but i certainly agree i describes royston.

on the other hand, i have come around to thinking the abbey should move, that end of abbey street will look after itself, the gentrification of henry street is pushing shops that way and the ifsc and the luas will bring office to the area. on the other hand, the top of o’connell street is important, adding the abbey to the gate, the ambassador, the savoy and, at a push, the ugc, and you’d have a mini-west end to balance the temple bar’s mini-Soho.

btw, here is my temple bar comment: they wanted SoHo and got Soho, did I just make that up or has someone said it before?

Wouldn’t it be great to see the predestrian zone of Grafton St extended down College Green, Westmoreland St. and over O’Connell Bridge. Creating a huge paved area in front of Trinity and linking Grafton St. with O’Connell St./Henry St.

The stuff dreams are made of I know.

Even if the pavement could be widened on this route would be an improvement for the lowly predestrian.

Yeah, i meant twat. The works are indeed slow when you put it like that. If I have learnt one lesson, it is to ignore draft plans, and actually wait for the cranes to go up. It spares a lot of pain.

Even keeping the roads, having the same pattern extended across O-Connell Bridge, and up D’Olier and Westmoreland St would be pretty cool. I assume that is the intention…

btw, here is my temple bar comment: they wanted SoHo and got Soho, did I just make that up or has someone said it before?

Good one – haven’t heard that one before

The present way that the lights gradually appearing towards the top of the Spire detracts from its overall appearance. I think it would look alot better if it were just a single light at the top. If the intensity got stronger as the perferated lights got closer to the top it might work, but at present they are all of the same intensity until the top where it is way brighter than the rest of them. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Phil

I don’t think the lights have ever worked the way they were supposed to. The orangey lights that are there at the moment are only temporary.
I wouldn’t be surprised it they’ve gone back to the drawing board on this. I think they just took the fact that they broke completely as an opportunity.

I know it isn’t QUITE the same thing – but the “plaza-fication” of downtown Cork was stalled ala O’Connell St – delays involving the main drainage and financing causing chaos. The work when it EVENTUALLY started was crawling – but then eureka! CCC decided to commence work at both ends and meet in the middle rather than going North to South. The work has actually moved at incredible speed since and is ahead of schedule for completion. A little bit of initiative goes a long way.

Kefu, I would say you are probably right there. I think many monuments go through the same theeting problems. I am sure they will rethink the present arrangement aswell.

I think the floodlights to light the spire will make a big difference when they are installed.

Also, at the moment the entire street is badly lit by intermittent nasty orange sodium lighting.

I hope when it is relaid, white halogen lights are installed, as they are around stephen’s green (but with a more modern lamppost design).

That way the lighting of the entire structure, and street will be very harmonius. I actually prefer the present orange lighting at the top of the spire, with the white tip. I think it looks really well…!

I like the tip with the white light, but I am not so sure about the rest of the lights, particularly when viewed from other areas of the city apart from O’Connell Street itself.

honestly the most interesting thread i’ve read online – ever …

no idea if you’re at all interested in my opinion as a foreigner but here goes…

I lived in Dublin (stoneybatter, then mountjoy sq) for about 5 months last year and to be honest i was shocked with how dirty the city is/was. its ofcourse nowhere near the worst place in the world — i’ve lived in India too — but that’s hardly a reason not to try and improve. I do find dublin very charming, and miss it actually, and i do love the “lived in” qualities it has. however i’m not really a fan of the “vomitted on” qualities.

im curious… and hope this doesnt sound stupid, but does the city have any sort of jobs for teenagers during the summer, school breaks etc, where they’re basically cleaning up/light gardening/maintenance/paint work/whatever for public places, such as O’Cnl Str, organised by the city? (they ofcourse have supervisors to keep them on track) up here (iceland) this solved two problems, though I realise there is a substantial difference in population, and the place is kept clean and tidy, and the teenagers get jobs rather than hanging around burger king all day. bigger (or smaller) firms around town can hire these “forces” off the city to clean up or whatever round their premises…yey!

is there already this sort of thing or would this not be possible in dublin?

What you are referring to is giving them stewardship for their environment, is it? I would think that would be a very good idea.

Well FAS used to run a student summer scheme that was basically dole for community work. Companies could also apply for these students too. I remember spending a summer clearing out an over grown river in my local town!

I’m not sure if its still running as the economy got better there were better paid things to do with your summer.

Its sounds like a great idea.

not sure what stewardship means, my english is limited, but yeah, probably right 🙂

cities should most definitelt not look at this as some sort of “charity” to get teens off the street, but actually see that this might give huge paybacks in terms of more tourists and richer tourists. might sound like a superficial aim, but my impression of dublin was that most people want to turn this into a snazzy metropolitan city, which i fear is unlikely to happen unless it’s cleaned up abit.
and on these notes, a friend of mine studying hospitality management in Dbln told me (lord knows where she gets this from) that ireland/dublin is trying to market itself as a capital of technology/IT, since maybe ireland could do with a “cleaner” image than the land of endless pints of guinness. It’s got to look it too.

even walking along the liffey i sometimes, no joke, had to cover my nose from the stench of it. is it too much work/money to hire some boat with proper cleaning equiptment on it and at least scrub off the green gumbo off the inner walls?

i sound very negative, but i do love dublin and would love move to go back there…

Very Interesting thread.

Particularly the comments regarding maintenance and dirt. As an Architect I’ve always felt that our profession hasa tendancy to the belief that a ‘Building’ can solve all problems – eg: Bad Area – solution New Buildings. Dirty Street – Solution New facades. Social Housing – new shiny development (the Marmion Court Queen St development is typical – social problems worse than ever but all hidden away).

I’ve long had a notion (and it’s nothing more than that) that if you want to seriously upgrade the experience of the user of the city that you spend money not on general development but on the surrounding environment eg: plant trees, better streetlights, high quality granite paving, wider sidewalks, reduced through traffic. And I’m interested in the example of Parliament St where all of this happened when the street was rather shoddy and unpleasant – within the year shopkeepers were erecting awnings, propery owners were looking at their buildings in a new light and treating them as assets rather than problems – it all worked out rather well at a relatively low capital cost.

Most of the really nice cities that I’ve been to have an excellent and clean public environment rather than particularly good architecture ,I’m thinking for example of Melbourne which I really liked but where althoug hte architecture is nothing special the whole city has a rather nice pleasant and safe vibe.

That i na way is the problem wit hour development planning, it is’nt realy ‘joined up writing’ just individual sites and buildings given atteneion on an individual basis rather than to conform with an overall physical vision based around streets, squares, and aimed at teh ground level user.

Our streets ar’nt safe, they’re not wheelchair pr pushchair negotiable, traffic fumes permeate the air and there’s a lamentable lack of and hostility to ‘greenery’ on the grounds that it costs money to maintain.

In fairness to the O’Connel St Plan that’s been a real focus for the planners and architects, making better streets. Now I don’t like or agree with everything that they’re doing but generally that type of work is unshowey and results arn’t visible until completion ofthe works.

As to the Spike – well I’m not mad about it but it does represent a very laudable attempt to address the ‘marking’ of public space in a positive and non profit driven way.

Anyway, Apologies for rabbitting on,

James

Graham — exactly, and would hopefully puts some respect into their attitudes toward their surroundings, knowing they might have to clean it up tomorrow 🙂

James — couldnt agree more. The most charming places i’ve seen have nothing to do with “most famous and expensive architecht”, but about the soul of the place, and the respect that is shown to it by its habitants.

wow what a yes-person i am …

ermmm the GPO, think it’s a majestic building in itself, and i’d love to see the developement on that and the spire/spike/stiletto in the ghetto since I used to pass it daily, are there any pictures online?

ah, all this talk is making me want to move back to dub…

so which one of you is going to find me a great job? 😉

https://archiseek.com

possibly

Royston goes further

January 18, 2004

“(20:36) Opposition politicians on Dublin City Council have called on the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Royston Brady to retract comments he made describing his fellow councillors as ‘clowns’.

In newspaper interviews, the Lord Mayor also described the councillors as ‘pathetic’ and ‘a waste of space’.

The leader of the Fine Gael group on the council, Ruáirí McGinley said he hoped the lord mayor would retract his comments at tomorrow night’s meeting of the City Council. He said the comments were uncalled for.

Sinn Féin’s group leader, Christy Burke, said that if the Lord Mayor did not withdraw his comments, he intended to go to the Taoiseach about them. “

Sound like muppet mighn’t be the only one looking for a job soon!

The extension of the Boulevard beyond O’Connell St would be great.

Where should it go, Westmoreland St through to Grafton St or towards Dame St?

Any ideas

I think it should follow the obvious line across o’connell bridge, which is foul looking at the moment, with no room to walk, then split at D-Olier and Westmoreland St, and then:

– swing east from D’Olier St down Pearse St as far as Grand Canal Dock. If you want to integrate the Docks into the City Centre via Pearse St, the Boulevard effect will work very well, as the footfall increases.

– swing west from Westmoreland St to the top of Dame St. There is no room to walk on Dame St as there is, and the traffic takes up far more road space than it needs to. It is a lovely st, and would be fantastic highlighted as a Boulevard.

My own instinct would involve Westmoreland St and Dame St.

I think that the Quays post Port tunnel will have dramatically reduced volumes of traffic. Pearse St would need to be used for traffic as it is the only south- North crossing between the East link and Christchurch these days. The architecture on Pearse st is quite patchy as well due to numerous demolitions in previous decades.

Westmoreland St College Green and Dame St present significant opportunities it is thought to extend the O’Connell St model.

Due to the streets being wide and having some excellent buildings. Hopefully if they attempt it the lessons on co-ordination will have been learned from O’Connell St.

Dame str is charming, has that old-city-street and arty feel to it.
even though pearse would be needed to get traffic through, i’d love to see it brightened up a bit. get’s a bit gloomey when you head east from o’dolier.

sorry if i’m not following the thread topic exactly…
crossing grand canal on the dart i used to daydream about having beautiful apartment buildings and restaurants along the canal, lots of little lights reflecting in the canal. ahhh. could make a boardwalk over the canal so that entrances to cafe’s and restaurants would face the canal.
having not actually been there except in a train i don’t know what it smells like… 🙂

thanks btw Diaspora

It wouldn’t take as long to re-lay new wider paving on Dame St or Westmoreland St, once the council work out how much road space they can take back.

The problem with O’Connell St is setting out the entire St in a completely new pattern; moving the existing roads, and diverting utilities; catering for the Luas, putting in a full plaza at one section; not to say the spire; and dealing with the sheer bloody width and length of the street.

What about continuing the same central median down Westmoreland St.

The real bonus on O’Connell St I think will be the cafes in the central median. I know it will probably cost about €25 for a cup of coffee, but it’s good to dream!!!!

Here’s an excerpt from a project I’m working on for a certain un-named (!) organisation, recommending improvments for Dame Street.

Royston Goes Missing (rte)

(21:17) “Opposition Dublin City Council members have criticised the Lord Mayor, Royston Brady, for not attending a City Council meeting tonight after describing the councillors as clowns.

In a newspaper article at the weekend, the Lord Mayor also described the councillors as ‘pathetic’ and ‘a waste of space’.

A Fianna Fáil spokesperson said Councillor Brady was at a pre-arranged function tonight.

The Fine Gael group leader, Ruairi McGinley, said his comments had gone ‘beyond a joke’.”

I remember this guy now, laying into Tom Phillips at the Smithfield enquiry. Such parochial politics you wouldn’t get out of Jackie Healy Rae.

‘It will block my constituents light and so on’ he knew even less then than he knows now

Dame St and the magnicient City Hall really are crying out for something like O’Connell St. Only planned and executed on a much more efficient timescale.

🙂

Graham, i’ll never forget the Liffey.. not the smell anyway 😉

This is all very interesting, why aren’t you the people who are actually working for the planning council? Do they have a suggestion box? Or one that they reads anyway?

if they dont have one, make them one. One of the impressions I got from Irish people — a generalisation, mind you — is that they are indeed people with strong views and morals, but they’d much rather talk amongst themselves rather than to the correct “authority”. I imagine there would be a reason behind it; years of repression etc, not having been allowed to speak up … catholic priests … ??

Again, sorry I keep getting off track… maybe i’m best kept at http://www.amature_pshycology.com… sorry!

“a certain un-named (!) organisation” = An Taisce

You be careful about the presence of hidden code in the properties of any document you place on the web.

I have often noticed traffic on Dame St veering drunkenly all over the place. Getting it into two or three very neat lanes would free up a significant amount of pedestrian space.

I wonder could the Port Tunnel remove some much traffic that the south facing north quay could be reclaimed and pedestrianised, making the south quay two way.

Think I should get a coffee and stop day dreaming.

It won’t remove enough traffic to achieve that. I take my coffee breaks in Bar Italia on the quays, and although taking the trucks out of the equation will ease the traffic, there is still a huge amount of cars and buses. Many buses stop on the quays… if the traffic was all on a two-way southern bank, one bus stopping at a bus stop would cause chaos. The quays aren’t wide enough.

The Quays aren’t wide enough to close, but they are wide enough to accomodate more car traffic that is currently using other routes.

One thing that has always occured to me as crazy, are the number of Dublin buses parked between Burgh Quay and Wellington Quay. Not picking up passengers but doing the ‘tachograph’ 45 minute rest periods. If these were ‘rested’ elsewhere and the trucks go via the port tunnel, it would be possible to accomodate all car traffic from Dame St along this Route.

Thus facilitating the closure of Dame St to all traffic except a reduced number of buses and Taxis requiring half the space.

Then you could have what O’Connell St is about to become a Street with dramatically reduced traffic flows and much wider pedestrian spaces. The closure of Dame St to cars would facilitate an extenion of this to Westmoreland St giving a continuos Boulevard from Parnell Sq to City Hall.

The only changes required would be no right turns to be introduced at Trinity College and Christchurch.

I know it wouldn’t be easy but maybe sometime in the future when our public transport system is the envy of the rest of the world and cars are banished from the city centre it might happen.

… I really should get that coffee!! 😉

I’m just thinking of the long game. But I agree with Diaspora and others Dame St Westmoreland St should be first on the list. Just imagine College Green if it was traffic free it would be fantastic. Imagine sitting there having a coffee surrounded by Bank of Ireland, Trinity, etc it would be cool.

At the moment it’s so difficult to get from Grafton St to O’Connell St/Henry St by foot. The pavements are just too small for the footfall and it’s off-putting battling with others on this route. Pedestrianise this route and we’d have an amazing city centre area that is actually enjoyable to walk around in.

I’m not so sure that you could banish traffic completely from College Green.

I think if you kept the D’olier St-College St-Lower Grafton St-Nassau St route open in tandem with Pearse St, that traffic flows would be protected.

While giving Dame St and the upper end of College green back to the pedestrian.

It would really only involve a diversion of the existing flows going West via Wellington Quay and Parliment St. The flows East via Wine Tavern St and Ormond Quay.

A pretty small adjustment in real terms. 😉

Agreed, it would be a start and anything is better than the present situation.

there’s a strong aroma of whacky baccy around here 😉

I thought it was buses that normally got stoned?

Traffic fume induced I’m affaid.

i don’t think total pedestrianization is always good, while it works for busy shopping streets, it can take the life out of a place, lots of towns in the se of england give examples of this, i amn’t even sure that the trafalga sq pedestrianization has worked, it is good for the gallery, but to my mind it diminishes the square. sometimes the best thing is to have one lane of well behaved, read suffering, traffice. the rambla in barcelona is a good model here. i think college green would be fabulous with much reduced traffice, but i amn’t sure total pedestrianization would be as good, even if it were possible.

I wasn’t total pedestrianisation I was advocating. Simply three measures.

1. The elimination of the right turn at Trinity College for cars/vans/trucks

2. The same ban on entry to Lord Edward St for cars/vans/Trucks

3. Moving the taxi rank from College green to westmoreland St.

These three measures would free up sufficient space to place a central median on Dame St/College green, similar in size to thatproposed for O’Connell St.

Giving space for cafes and urban art/statues etc.

It would make the city a little more user freindly. I know it is not as simple as that, but it does merit examination.

Shadow:

”un-named (!) organisation” was a just reference to feelings expressed towards an taisce on another recent thread. I wasn’t really trying to conceal an t.

Interesting comments about traffic in the city centre.

This is why the decision to terminate Luas line A at Stephen’s Gn was so disastrous, rather than the original plan to bring it down Dawson St, through College Gn and on to link with Line B at O’C St. The government just caved in to the vested interests of the AA, IBEC etc. back in ’98, who couldn’t contemplate losing an inch of roadspace in the city centre. And Garret Fitzgerald and his newspaper articles didn’t help either.

The original plan would have given the much reduced traffic priority on College Gn that notjim talks about, and given the city centre a civilised and continental feel. Instead we’ve just got the noise, fumes and brutality of heavy traffic domination. Really annoys me!

🙂

Yes I remember the ’98 debacle well. Mam O’Rourke and Mary Harney et al caved in to the shopkeepers and toffs on Dawson Street and College Green.

We now have two luas lines that meet nowhere!

Completing line B would make it viable if the proposed Ranelagh-Airport metro line were built – the tram would go from Ranelagh to O’Connell St., which is about three miles or so. As it is, if that metro line takes over line B south of Ranelagh, the digging up of Harcourt St. has been mostly in vain.
Incidentally, I have read that EU law prevents dual running of trams and heavy-rail trains on the same track – is this correct? A tram is, after all, still a train.

Andrew,
I visited Newcastle last year where the Metro shares track with heavy rail on a new extension to Sunderland. Theres also shared track in several cities in Germany. No EU rules against it but I think rail safety issues can be a problem.

For my money Line B will never be upgraded but theres a fair chance that the link to Line A will be built. Its removal was a very spineless decision from the cabinet at the time.

What happened to Mr Brennans decision about Metro by Christmas. Maybe he’s too busy with Aer Rianta and CIE!

JJ

I would imagine when Luas is opened there will be calls for the linking of Lines B and A.

They will go back to the original 1996 proposal and hey presto the Dept of Finance will give it the ok.

RIP metro, on costs grounds!

Andrew is right,

The only option for Luas now is to go underground from Ranelagh and all the hassle on Harcourt St was really only a short term solution.

This really is a pity because Luas at ground level through College Green really would have added an ambience to the City.

To compensate for the loss of this, something will need to be done to further enhance the visual in the College Green through Westmoreland St to O’Connell St.

Luas will never be able to use the heavy rail tracks so even if the EU bans such practice it doesn’t apply here. We have the honour of having a completely non-standard rail gauge across the country. We can thanks our nieghbours across the Irish Sea for that one. This is one reason why it’s no so straight forward for CIE to do upgrades to the rolling stock – everything has to be custom made and commissioned. Bearing this in mind Luas was designed to a european standard gague (which means ease of new rolling stock – but incompatible with exisiting railways)

Yes, the ground floor is “the Georgian Room” of the Hotel. You can tell by the tart’s knickers curtains in the window.

Devin,

Are you sure it isn’t the Hideous in Harlods cross post you were talking about?

That imagery!!!!!!

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2532&pagenumber=2

Graham,

To get any grants for the restoration of property under section 482 of the 1997 Finance act you must open your property to the public on 60 days per year.

Including 45 days between the 1st of May and the 30th of September. You must also inform the local tourist board on which days you intend to open.

After a period of five years you no longer are required to open the property for public admission, you may at all times charge a reasonable admission fee generally in the €3-10Euro range.

Re: The Closing of Dame St yesterday

Yesterday the changes spoken of on Tuesday happened, the cities traffic functioned and the only unhappy people were the retailers who were not consulted.

It will be interesting to see the traffic levels on other work days when the Castle is in a similar use, and Dame St is closed again.

But did they close all of Dame Street or just the portion from the bottom of Georges Street upwards….

They only closed from Georges St up

But with the no right turn at the bottom of Georges St and the small flows that go up Georges St from Dame St.

It would be pretty close in volume terms to preventing cars using the Street between College Green and Parliment St.

I think that after more of these meetings have taken place the situation will become clearer.

But so far so good

Cars were allowed to turn right at the end of George’s Street. The turn ban was waived for the day…

Retailers, though, I ask you. ALWAYS groaning about something. Middle Abbey Street looks great now with its completed Luas lines. And all the whingeing shopkeepers are about to make millions from having hundreds of Luas passengers disgorged on their doorsteps. Will they say “Thank you?” Will they f***!

Well in this case the traders in Cow lane kinda had a point… the Gardaí were INTERVIEWING people who wished to walk through Cow lane (at either end) so obviously people were intimidated into not going near that area.

They also closed Merrion Street later on, diverting buses any which way with no warning. A 50% longer bus commute last evening and shoals of passengers left at the bus stops

I think this thread should be called the lack of Co-ordination thread.

It is just one example after the other of un-cordinated solo runs by our various public institutions.

While reading the letters page of that great achedemic journal the Southside people I discovered that our Royston has sat on the O’Connell St Committee of the Corporation since 1999.

He is right at least one of them is a muppet and a waste of space

http://www.barrymasonphoto.com

There is a great picture of the spike taken from the new building (former Irish Press) on Eden Quay. It gives a real feel of the North Inner Cities Skyline.

Here’s a good one of the Spire (pre light break down ….ie when it had a white light adorning the top, unlike the cheap regular sodium street light yoke at the mo)

Does anyone know what the story is with the lights half way up. Is it some sort of aviation regulation? I think they break the simple form of the spire a bit.

Are thoes photos taken using filters or is it down to the development that the colours are so rich esp. the sky is so blue?

Natural autumnal dusky light!

Although Barry Mason’s look kinda synthetic, almost as if they were reproduced in 3D Max..aka hence the kinda super realism, almost plastic synthetic CGI effect!
(in a Chuck Close kinda way)

Ahhh ….. forgot what a computer can do.

It looks like the lighting at the tip of the Spire will have to be re thought … the current temporary measure is pretty awful … I quite liked the led’s but think we can do better …

Any ideas on what can or should be done ???

I thought a single slender white beam (as strong as possible) pointing sky wards from the tip might be an idea , although this would probably involve some modification to the tip …

I was walking home at about 3 in the morning when the top section was lying on the ground. A crowd of girls pleaded with the security guard and he lifted the fence and let us crawl under to touch the tip! We were all so euphoric afterwards I remember even though we didn’t know each other! Could have been the drink I suppose!

The lights on the tip are pretty second rate, but wouldn’t look so bad if the rest of the Spike was floodlit. If it was in any other country, a couple of spotlights would be trained on it and it would look great.
Wasn’t it originally planned to be floodlit?
On the lights half-way up; I thought they were also aviation warning lights…
They look crap, too…:rolleyes:

I’d suspect they plan to floodlight as part of the general O’Connell St upgrade and will compleate it sometime in the near future!

I agree. I would imagine once the plaza section is complete they will tackle the Spire. Its just such a scandal that such a new feature should require such snag work. Between floodlighting, cleaning and the tip lights.

Elsewhere on the street. what do you make of the new groups of tree which have been planted. I like them although it looks as if the project team are moving away from the boulevard style planting of the original design no? And the side paving seems to have very little provision for trees. There are 200 new trees to be planted as part of the whole scheme.

Also I have always wondering what the iron ‘bollards’ were for at the base of the GPO collumns. Anyone enlighten me.

I saw you thread about the freize on the GPO Graham. I seem to remeber a story in the mid/late 80s regarding the removal of a freize from either the GPO or the Bank of Ireland. The usual bunf about symbols of oppression if I am correct was mentioned. I know both were cleaned up for the 1988 Millennium. Jog anyones memory?

Check out the trees between the Larkin statue and Abbey St. There are tow groups of 6 trees (birch and rowan I think) and they are installing uplights today. It will look quite good at night but its certainly very different from what I expected.

Interesting peice by Frank McDonald in the Times Property last week regarding the thnking behind the lastest Draft Development Plan (have you all made your submissions!). Planner were discussing the devlopment of PArnell Sq and the possible removal of the GArden of Remembrance (‘a dead space’) and the building up of the 3 inner sides of the square. Interesting idea…cant see it getting by the FF and SF councillors though. But it begs the question: where would be a suitable location for the Children of Lir monument (has to be one of my favs). I am proposing on the site of the current Father Mathew statue on O’Connell St, perhaps with a fountain. Thoughts anyone?

That would be great if parnell sq was to be revitalised, its a tragedy such a huge and potentially important space is so neglected. However, I would be suspicous of plans to build on it, would it not be better as a badly needed green space on the concrete jungle of the north inner city, sort of contemporary stephens green, but more open etc. WE Need more tREES!! Could not the statue of the children of lir be reintegrated , with a contemporary open space??rather than moving it and causing a furore.Where could one see a copy of the new draft development plan??

Stephen C …I think the statue of Kelly’s Children of Lir would be far too large to have on O’Connell Street.
Perhaps if it is removed it will end up with the Floozy….aka Anna Livia fountain.

It’s as if the facades of thetwo houses were removed and the horrible 60s windows simply slotted into place!

I thought that is what had happened – just a new facade stuck onto the old buildings

I’m pretty sure those fluted iron bollards at the ends of the GPO potico were the bases of lamp standards, which are seen in some early prints, and some very early photos too. The upper parts were removed a long, long time ago – maybe around 1870.

In that piece by Frank McD last week the DCC planner was saying how wonderful the new Roches Stores building was and that it combines very well with the Spire. And it does. When you stand near the Ilac entrance the conjunction of the Spire and the new Roches facade is very good.

BUT, from further back, the picture isn’t so pretty. The new Roches building has a ‘feature roof’ which projects several feet beyond the Henry St streetline. If you stand at the western end of Mary St, this roof cuts unfortunately into what should be a clean channel view to the Spire. Annoying!

Have you noticed that a new pub has opened in the former AIB building on the junction with Abbey St.?

I also noticed a planning application for a new pub (well they say cafe/bar!!) in the old Man U shop on D’Olier/ Westmoreland St.

What with the existing bar on the corner here (Redz! – Yrrrggghh!) and that new pub beside Wolfe Tone Pk at Jervis St I think this proliferation of new pubs is reaching epidemic proportions!!

Quote “Have you noticed that a new pub has opened in the former AIB building on the junction with Abbey St.?”

So Louis Fitzgerald eventually got it finished.
Fair play and also fair play with the former AIB on Dame St ‘The Bankers is great too’.

Victorian Banking halls really make great Bar/Restaruants. The pomp and ceromony of the Victorian commercial architecture is really conducive to the licenced trade.

Is it really true that the former TSB at the end of Grafton St is about to become a Spar?

That really would surprise me if an owner was that unambitious in what is a pivotal property.

😉

Graham the Spar is next door to the bank and still open…

The Spar on Wexford St has become a Mace to give the ‘better’ franchise to the new Spar on Camden St. The one in the former Irish Nationwide building that was a large department store at one stage.

That is about the best Spar I’ve seen (not that it is difficult to be the best Spar) and bears many simularities with the design of the Dunnes on Georges St. 🙂

And I see there is going to be a new ‘Centra’ next to wher Little Ceasers is being put (into Daly’s clubhouse! opportunity missed I think) on College Green. Pretty soon every shop in Dublin will be a multiple – Spar, Centra and Mace all with high prices, bad wine, minimum wages and a shed-load of porn on the top shelf. Boo to that I say!

Oh and I believe from the planning application that it is the aforementioned Redz that will extend into the former Man U shop. Crapola – another superpub, just what we need

Yeah O’Connell Street always looks so stately in old prints.

Thanks Graham for reminding me to take a photo of the earth and foundations of bollards and columns in front of the GPO portico before it’s paved over. That sight won’t be had for long time to come!

What condition will the Street be in for Beautiful Night event on May the first.

100k people is a huge number for a building site to handle!

Walking in front of the columns for the first time in a century? More like for the first time in 2 years!

Do you not remember or where you not here about 2 years ago a pavement placed in front of the GPO for all of 1 month or so. This paved area in front of the GPO portico was put in place and then taken away within 2 months later when work on the Spike started.

Obviously it was only planned to have that short a life span! But seriously, I was bewildered at the time as to what the hell was happening – back-handers perhaps? Or just complete ineptitude?

This pavement was made up on concrete flagstones (if i remember correctly). Certainly it didn’t look to be made of material of a quality as temporary as to match the life span of the actual pavement itself.

I was directly in front of the GPO portico – not part of the central median.

I remember it too, it was like a patio someone might have at the back of a bungalow. It seemed very out of place.

I believe that they were testing the roadworthiness of a section of the paving!
I remember reading something about it at the time!!

the section of paving was laid to create a platform etc. for the President / Taoiseach and other big wigs to stand as the remains of Kevin Barry etc. and the accompanying military parade passed down O’Connell street …

Remember ?? thought it was fairly extravagant myself to see it being pulled up a couple of weeks later.

That piece of paving from 2 yrs ago was made of poured concrete – no slabs or anything.

I thought it was put down as a gesture to the people, because the permanent paving work was taking so long to commence – or as a space test, to see how traffic would cope with only 2 lanes.

But maybe you’re right about the military parade Peter F.

Lots of new trees planted today… all the boxed limes along the opposite side from the GPO have been planted. They look great.

The street will be a bit of a state for St Patricks Parade though. I can see all the paving at the GPO being finished but other areas of the street will look patchy. It was a bad idea not to reroute in my opinion. Having said that all our major setpiece ‘civic spaces are under construction. St Stephen Green, Smithfield, O’Connell St. Seems like the devil you do the devil you don’t.

How the f*** are Super Value allowed to move there I thought there was going to be some sort of restriction on who and what appears on the street from now on.

Super Value is hardly going to give the street the “Champs Elyses” feel the DCC is after.

That just makes my blood boil. 😡

Originally posted by Graham Hickey

Also found out that a Super Valu convenience store is moving into the Eircom building at the northern end. You’d despair, you really would…

Graham, I often think that the success of these sorts of areas is about the flows of people between different sections of the street. If a convenience store causes people to use the area, so be it, there is no real problem!

I don’t think O’Connell Street needs another gaudy convenience store to encourage people to that area. It’s got enough pedestrian activity especially at the time the shop is going to be open.

What would make more sense is if the Abbey does move to the Carlton Cinema and the area may become the theatrical area of the city it would keep this area buzzing at night.

The streets needs a bit of class, I think if the rumours of Harvey Nicks moving to the street were true it would be a great. An anchor store like HN would in turn attract other better quality shops and restaurants.

Originally posted by blue

The streets needs a bit of class, I think if the rumours of Harvey Nicks moving to the street were true it would be a great. An anchor store like HN would in turn attract other better quality shops and restaurants.

I fully agree with you about the Abbey, but if there were only certain types of shops allowed on the street it would have the effect of the street becoming an exclusive shopping district as opposed to ‘the mainstreet of the nation’.

Well I do agree with you there, that’s not what anyone wants but I think the opening of a large exclusive shop on the street would have the knock on effect of other less exclusive shops etc moving there.

For example I don’t shop in BT on Grafton Street but there are plenty of less exclusive shops on the street that I do shop in.

Its the capitals main street it should have a certain amount of exclusiveness and this will in turn attract less exclusive shops etc. that are better quality to what’s there at the moment.

Im not sure why we cant have our cake and eat it on O’Connell St. There is plenty of space for a new Abbey AND a shopping mall. Simply turf the Fingal crowd out an redevelop the old County Council Offices in addition to the Carlton site (if ever there was a building identifiable with so many bad things its this one).

Curoius this new Super Valu store. Just how many convenience stores can a city centre support. There is a new Spar opening at Chapter House on Abbey St and Musgrave’s new flagship store is opening soon in the old Virgin building (nice elabotrate windows here by the way).

I supose to dedpends on the type of development but its a bit depressing that this seems to be the only type of shop the street can attract.

Had an interesting presentation from the Project Manager of the IAP last week. The CC have no powers to compel traders to lerave the street (fast food, amusement arcades etc) but can only hope that through the imporvements (which are to continue for another 3 years!!!) more high calibre names will want to move to teh street and the undesiriables will sell up and move on. A bit tame eh!

Another thing… so far we have Harvey Nicks in O’Connell St… the old Bank of Ireland College Green and the new Gaiety Centre on South Kings Street!!

New SPARS are popping up all over the city centre too!
I spotted the tell tale ‘New SPAR opening here soon’ (Groan!) signs on Talbot St, Parnell St and Abbey St (opposite Jervis)!
I’m sure there are lots more too!

Just how many convenience stores can a city centre support.

Exactly, it’s just unbelievably.

It’s the SPARIFICATION of the city.

SPARville as it will soon be known.

Super Valu, Centra, and Musgraves are the same company (i.e. Musgraves) so if anyone knows about market saturation in a particular area…
This shop wont be a Super Valu per se. I think they want to model it the lovely Dunnes’ on Georges St and N Earl St… so a classy shop in an area in dire need of something to attract some punters.

I’ve seen the name Harvey Nichols mentioned all over the noticeboards – why this need for a upper-class English store to underpin a regeneration of what is hoped will be the main street of the nation?

Well I don’t see any Irish ones stepping up to do it! I would prefer and Irish store but its just not going to happen.

Whats wrong with a foreign store on the main street anyway or is it just because its English?

In part, yes it is because its English. It would be nice to see some variety in the retail choice and so, I would welcome some continental department store sooner than another English store – don’t we have enough with the Jervis centre?

I personally wouldn’t like to see the Irish High street a carbon copy of the English High street.

I would also question the repetition of the name Harvey Nichols when it comes to Dubln city centre regeneration – sure what have they got to do with here?

And if Irish department stores aren’t queuing up to locate onto O’Connell St. – well for one, that’s been understandable up to now. But if the DCC manage to pull off a fairly decent street after all this work, maybe we should begin asking why Irish department stores won’t relocate there rather than invite in an English store the first chance we get.

I agree with you, variety is the spice of life after all and we don’t want a carbon copy of Oxford St or any other English high street. However Harvey Nicks is hardly on every street corner in the UK and we already have Clearys, Eason and Pennys on this street so I don’t think it would end up a carbon copy. I just want to see the street restored to its former glory and if that means a large English department store leading the way I have no problems with that.

The entrance of UK retailers into the Irish market can only be seen as positive, offering the consumer more choice and VARIETY. The much-berated Jervis St Centre is a fine example of this and also how a shopping centre should be run. Irish shopping centres where second rate, in my opinion, until arrival of competition.

What will probably happen is a new shopping centre will eventually be built on the Carlton cinema site and this will have the necessary draw to get people into the north end of the street and in turn hopefully raise the quality of the surrounding establishments.

Anyone got any old photos of the Findlaters shop which used to occupy the Eircom spot?

Sorry forgot to add:
Bill Cullen worked as a paper/delivery boy in Findlaters before moving onto his successful car dealership career (I seem to remember from his autobiography!)

It can’t be closed all that long!

Super Value on O’Connell Street is not necessarily a bad thing. It is fitting considering the History of the site that it returns to selling groceries.

As for Clerys, does anyone know that Mary Guiney, Chairwoman of Clerys, is 102 and possibly the oldest proprietor of any company in the world (certainly the oldest woman?) It makes Clerys unique in more than one respect. I read somewhere that someone called the store ‘Irelands answer to Selfridges’. Certainly it has similarities, but the building is more elegant and refined than its overpowering London counterpart. If anyone has been at both stores, the similarities and the differences are quite startling.

Good on ye Mary Guiney!…..any relation to Michael down Talbot Street?

As O’Connell Street is starting to take shape and look great is’nt it only a pity that it’s not finished or even half finished for St Partick’s day tomorrow and especially as we hold the Presidency of the EU at the mo. Could have been a showpiece for the city and country…..alas not, but remains a building site!

It is… but it will be ready (or at least this phase will) for the Beautiful Night on May 1.

I wouldn’t mind a bit more “carbon copy” Oxford St here. I live here! It’s not like I have my monthly flying visits to London or anything so having a decent range of comparison shopping venues in my everyday life would be welcome. Dublin has a pathetic lack of decent city centre commercial space. Suffolk St, Sth King St, new ILAC might help out though…
The only good thing about Clery’s is it’s facade – a thoroughly second rate shop inside (stock etc). Potentially with it’s location and building could be a premier department store. Must do better!

They look great dont they. This section of the street is really starting to take shape. I did notice that the street-level bollards in front of the GPO have been taken away. The paving here is complete so it doesn’t look as if they will be reinstated. Its a small thing but as they are heritage items it would be a great shame if they were permanently lost.

The large bollards are there and being set into paving but the areas set aside for the small ones have been paved over. Maybe they are being resited.

I was thinking that uplighters between the pillars of the GPO would have been very effective.

That’s very serious if those iron bollards at the bases of the columns have been removed and paved over. I’m going down to check it out now. There’ll be hell to pay!

Anyone got any pics?

Relax people! I enquired on-site and the stumpy bollards will put back as they were. The authorities want to open that part of the paving around the portico for Paddy’s day and there wasn’t time to finish it with the bollards.

Still, I don’t approve of the way those bollards have been treated up to now. They are valuable items of early Dublin street furniture, but were just left lying randomly around the site – and left out at night with no protection against theft other than the wire hoarding which often has walk-in gaps anyway, inviting the civically-inconsiderate passer-by to nick one for their back garden!

The bollards don’t appear to have been numbered during removal either. Assuming they had been in-situ for a long period of time up to this, each one should – for the sake of histortic continuity – go back to its original column base.

Go ahead for O’Connell St hotel revamp
The Irish Independent

A further key piece of the O’Connell St redevelopment jigsaw is now in place following the granting of planning permission by Dublin City Council for a major redevelopment of the landmark Royal Dublin Hotel. Proposed works by owner Ampleforth Ltd includes a complete refurbishment and remodelling of the interior of the hotel, together with two, new bedroom wings with frontage onto Parnell Street and Moore Lane. The proposed design by Dublin-based Ashlin Coleman Architects is part of the plan to create a new and enhanced image for the hotel. Planning permission has also been granted for a new facade for the hotel on O’Connell Street. This exciting facade – designed jointly by Ashlin Coleman with UK architectural practice MacCormac Jamieson Prichard – will complete the new look for the hotel

http://www.archeire.com/news/2004/000042.html

What did you thin of the new facade for the Royal Dublin. I think it look great. Very different and modern. My god the difference between now and then will be so dramatic.

The Indo also had details of a new retail development at the EBS building on Westmoreland St. The piece was suggesting that the building would be demolished apart from the centre section (which is protected) and a new facade consiting of multi coloured lit panels replace it. It looked great as well. There is also plans for a pedestrian link to Temple Bar via Fleet St, although it wasn’t clear what this entailed.

What did you thin of the new facade for the Royal Dublin. I think it look great. Very different and modern. My god the difference between now and then will be so dramatic.

The Indo also had details of a new retail development at the EBS building on Westmoreland St. The piece was suggesting that the building would be demolished apart from the centre section (which is protected) and a new facade consiting of multi coloured lit panels replace it. It looked great as well. There is also plans for a pedestrian link to Temple Bar via Fleet St, although it wasn’t clear what this entailed.

Surely Henrietta Street is the oldest?

Royal Dublin …

and the EBS …

I saw them in the Indo on Wednesday….kind of a funky make over for the both, moreso the EBS. Better than the black glass I suppose and the end of Sam Stephenson’s mark.

The EBS development is terrible looking in that image.

Pity that original Art Deco edifice was gutted

The EBS was once an Art Deco building?

Yep, hence the preservation order on the central remnant.

GregF, you make it sound like the rest of the site containing building of equal interest to the central piece. AFAIK that wasn’t the case.

I’ve always wondered what the building looked like with its original wings – any pictures around?

Its either a joke at this stage or has long since passed that but are they ever going to pave O’Connell St?!

Progress is slow to say the least – it certainly comes in peaks and troughs and although the peaks provide for identifiable progress, the troughs are too frequent and too long.

I cant understand why they haven’t copncentrated their efforts firstly on the Henry St. junction. I’ve spent months in crowds funnelled into a narrow pedestrial crossing by large concrete barriers. Surely the contractors know that this is by far the busiest stretch of the street and would make an effort to finish it first and with the greatest of haste?

Am I being too logical?

I think to correct the problems with Dublin’s city centre, the cc need to take one project at a time and complete them first before subjecting the city to twenty at once and not completeing any on time or to a majorities opinions it would appear effectively. May be Im niave in my opinion

Originally posted by Graham Hickey
But the central median is definitely taking way too long to open.

The question is will DCC O’connell St committee member Royston be old enough to run for president by the time its finished? It is scheduled for completion prior to the Euro elections in June, will this muppet be able to point to a job done on time as promised?

Great pics Graham. I’m down that part of the city the odd time but its so hard to see the changes as its so conjested at the moment. Great detail. Roll on the completion day when ever that is!

I really like that new shop front on the Dublin Bus building. It looks really well. I think the street overall is starting to shape up very nicely indeed. I just walked down it and admired the change in the footpath width makes to the perception of the GPO and buildings nearby.

Phil

I was in Clearys recently for the first time since I was a kid and the place has got a real vibe to it, much more so than any chic Grafton street estabishment. From the upstairs full length windows you can stand and look down at the Spike and the crowds milling by. I go shopping in Antwerp or Brussels city centers and never you will never see the kind of rushing, busy crowds that make their way through Dublin. In fact, shopping on the Northside of town is so much more exiting than Grafton street etc., the people, the decadence of O’Connell street, the seediness of the streets down to Connelly station, the shabby but teeming Ilac center, amazing places, once glorious Parnell square, these are the places that form the character of town, they’re unique, hope they don’t change too much and become all nice.
If you were to look for a European equivalent of O’Connell street it would have to be the main raiway station quarter, the place where the thugs, hookers and junkies hang out, will they just move further north up the street now.

I think appartments are planned here on the former garage site across the road.

The Walden garage site is being converted into 6 apartment blocks. There are also plans to restore a vacant lot on Parnell Sq with a replica Georgian facade. I know waht is said about pastiche but in this case a Georgian facade is called for to restore the original terrace. A bit of a clean up of the buildings along this side if the square would be most welcome

I thought pastiche was to be avoided at all costs under the O’Connell St plan…?

Why?

Number 4(?) Kildare Street (the stone building which forms part of the national library beside the old Kildare Street Club that) is an interesting building in that its shape is very similar to normal brick georgian buildings and its proportions seem to be similar as well. I know it is a little away from the area being discussed, but for me it proves that pastiche is simply not the answer. I have no idea about when this building was built or if the stone work is just a facade (which would be interesting in itself because it would represent a completely different example of facadism to the type we now have). I suspect that it dates from the 1920s or 1930s but I don’t really know. Anyway the point is that it is possible to fit buildings into an existing streetscape without resorting to full blown pastiche.

Phil,

I know the building you are refering to, it’s a humdinger isn’t it. It’s a stripped classical front applied to a Georgian facade and the architect was Frederick Hayes, date 1935. It reminds me of London art-deco.

Shaun, thanks for that information (and so quick too). Do you know of any sources of information about it? It is an absolute gem. Definitely in my top 10 in Dublin.

Thanks again

Phil

It’s a pleasure….I gleaned this information from S.Rothery’s “Ireland and the new architecture”, great book. He also adds about this building that “this was the Refuge Assurance building. Polished grey Ballinasloe limestone slabs were used up to the first-floor window-cill level, and grey fossil limestone slabs, attached with copper dowels, were fixed to the rest of the front. The result was a flat shiny elevation with the desired fashionable look.” He calls it somewhat outrageous. Is there anything else like it in Dublin that you know of ? Oh, and yes, it would make my Dublin top 10 easily.

I agree, a faithful Georgian copy using good materials would be best up on Parnell sqare. Something akin to Mountjoy square, although I have only been up there once since it was saved from complete destruction, and it still comes in for a lot of criticism for being pastiche, or fake.

Lads, the building on the corner of Parnell Sq. East and Denmark Street is pastiche and looks quite obviously so. I really think that something with similar proportions, similar brick colour etc but bearing a contemporary stamp aswell would be much more appealing.

Originally posted by Graham Hickey

‘Replica’ I think is a better word to describe an accurate, faithful reproduction of the original, down to the bootscraper; such building in strictly limited circumstances such as this can work better than modern interpretations if they unify an area, which I think will happen on Parnell Square.

Graham, I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one. The word ‘pastiche’ still refers to something being replicated. I know we now associate it with some of the worst attempts at historic street rejuventation in the country, but on a fundamental basis a replication is a replication. This is as much the case for ‘good’ replications as it is for bad ones. Infact, a good fake is probably worse than a bad one in the long run as it fools the observer into thinking that it is somhow from the same time period as it surroundings. I think that there is a enough subtle differences between Georgian Buildings, which we now probably don’t really notice, to allow a well designed building with similar materials and proportions to fit in well. I love historic landscapes, but when I start to feel that they are in somehow inauthentic, I loose some of my admiration for them.

Just admiring O’Connell Street from the Carlton Cinema today… however…

The sweep from Earl Street to O’Connell Street is quite possibly the finest stretch of streetscape in Dublin, but it is so shamefully destroyed by O’Connell Bridge House. This has to not only be one of the worst buildings in Dublin, but also the most ill- situated. It ruins this spectacular ensemble of architecture – akin to placing a block of flats in the middle of Westminster Palace in London.

There were plans for some modification of this vile piece of work, but nothing less than total demolition and a new building restricted to four storeys would be the best result here.

On other matters, one of the unintended effects of the new trees surrounding the GPO is that they obscure much of the horrendous shop signage adjacent Clerys. Perhaps this practice should continue where shops deliberately ignore planning restrictions regarding signage. 😀

I can’t understand this hatred of O’Connell Bridge House – it can only be the old chestnut of height, even though it is barely even a midrise building. I doubt you’ll find a single tourist who has any feelings, positive or negative, about it. Try mentally rubbing out the 30 metre high lager advertisement next time you look at it – it will improve.

I find it unusual that the lumpen, pointlessly frilly form of Liberty Hall is better in your estimation, Graham.

As I say Graham, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. I suppose it is a matter of taste. Andrew, I must agree with you on the O’Connell Street house issue. In fact, I would like if the other one which was planned for the site now occupied by the Balast House was actually built aswell.

Phil

(ps, dont faint Graham, because I know you will be shocked by my point of view 🙂 )

To the untrained eye it certainly isn’t an eyesore and Dublin has a lot worse.

Its a pity tourists aren’t allowed up it. The view from the top must be amazing. It would make up for not being able to climb the spire.

Would be a brilliant location for a roof top restaurent, as it was once before, I think.
Any entrepreneurs out there with lots of money and ideas?

I might be wrong but I do remember something about the owner of this building refusing to open it up. Even after some lobbying which is a shame because it would be a great attraction. Having a meal up there would be amazing.

It was a restaurant for a year or two after opening (1964-1965), and apparently popular amongst Dublin society, but the owner soon converted the floor into his personal offices.

I would definitely take down O’Connell Bridge House, and maybe even Liberty tower. It is probably not so much the height as the shape and the positioning; they are so angular and boxlike and intrude on the city rather than complement it.

With the new tara tower going up, hopefully at some point those two buildings will be replaced by something that gives a very stylish and modern view of the city centre from o’connell st, millenium bridge etc…

40 years on and it’s still being discussed… O’Conn Bridge house is as much part of the view, appropriate or not. What would be inappropriate would be to remove it purely to restore a vision that dates from, well… we all know this boring argument. Personally I like to see every generation leave their mark (should that be scar…?!?) – It’s part of the nasty corrupt 60’s layer deposited on the city.

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
40 years on and it’s still being discussed… O’Conn Bridge house is as much part of the view, appropriate or not. What would be inappropriate would be to remove it purely to restore a vision that dates from, well… we all know this boring argument. Personally I like to see every generation leave their mark (should that be scar…?!?) – It’s part of the nasty corrupt 60’s layer deposited on the city.

Given the giant outlay during the refurb in 1999 it is amazing that a decent cladding wasn’t put on. It lay empty for two years because no tenant would pay 50 quid a square foot for such an ugly building. Bad design including refurbs costs money as prestige foreign tenants want quality!!!!!

I though it lay empty because of its lack of parking spaces?

Does anyone know when the next Carlton hearing is?

Ireland.com 7th April 2004

“The Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Mr O’Donoghue, has given his strongest indication yet that the National Theatre could move from Abbey Street. Delays and the high cost of developing the existing site gave the Government little choice but to look elsewhere for a new home for the Abbey Theatre, he said yesterday. Mr O’Donoghue commented on the theatre’s future while at the Abbey launching “A Policy Framework for Education, Community and Outreach” for the Council of Cultural Institutions. “Given the cost acquisition and time factor of expanding the footprint of the Abbey at its present location, we have no choice but to begin looking elsewhere. The Carlton site is one that comes to mind,” he said after launching the education document. “We have the most imaginative and creative generation of our history and there is no expression of that creativity in our public architecture. Obviously, the regeneration and refurbishment of O’Connell Street would be greatly enhanced by a signature development such as our national theatre,” the Minister said. Speaking in the Dáil earlier, Mr O’Donoghue said that redeveloping the Abbey’s current site would be “problematic, time consuming and expensive” and that he would prefer to see it on a new city-centre site. Mr O’Donoghue qualified his later references to the Carlton site by acknowledging the current High Court challenge to the compulsory purchase order by Dublin City Council. No decision can be made about that site until the outcome of the court case. He said the Government would await the outcome of the Carlton case before making a final decision about the Abbey, “provided we don’t have to wait too long”. He would not be pressed on how long the Government might be prepared to wait. The director of the Abbey, Mr Ben Barnes, who attended the launch, said: “The Government and the Abbey are all very keen that a decision is made about the new theatre in this centenary year.” When Mr O’Donoghue last spoke on the Abbey in the Dáil on February 26th, he said the theatre’s current site “has not been ruled out, but it is beginning to look more difficult”.”

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
I though it lay empty because of its lack of parking spaces?

There were many reasons why it wasn’t let, but the gossip at the time was that the rental price at IR50 per square foot was the primary reason versus IR38-42 for often superior specification buildings in the IFSC and Dublin 2.

It is also not a very prestigious building either, I wonder how many non-government tenants it has had over the years?

That building you were talking about recently Graham has just been painted – the 2nd building in on Henry Street – not sure about the paint job – yellow and black. not sure if it does anything for it.

Regarding windows, from what I know of sash windows (I did a course that involved going round looking at period building details, so I gathered a certain amount of knowledge on the subject) those sashes date from the 1830 to 1850 period. The small, quadrant-shaped sash horn came in at about that time, as a strenghtening device (before that there was no sash horn at all).

After about 1850 it became possible to make larger panes of glass, so multi-paned ‘Georgian’ windows fell out of fashion – though they were still used at the back of houses cos they were still cheaper to make – and gave way to Victorian two-over-two or one-over-one paned sash windows. Sometimes, to economise, the glazing bars of Georgian windows would simply be removed and a single pane of glass inserted. This is what I think happened with the windows at the corner building – the travel agents. They appear to date from the same time as the multi-pane windows next door. I reckon if you could see them up close, you would see the marks of where the glazing bars were removed.

A larger and more decorative sash horn began to be made with Victorian windows. A really common mistake around town that annoys me is when newly-made ‘Georgian’ sashes include the curly Victorian sash horn – it looks too fussy on multi-pane sashes!

Originally posted by Graham Hickey

Loads of shots of O’ Cll Bridge House being built too – felt like shouting at the screen – STOP! You don’t know what you’re doing! If only you knew! Pity there isn’t an erase button on the remote – zap it to oblivion.

Yeah, Graham apparantly there was a sequel planned aswell. It was cancelled in the last minute and we have Ballast House instead. However, I have heard that it is only computer generated and could actually be switched off at any moment! 😉

so i have a 1860 victorian house, albiet a very crappy one, with 6 over 6 windows with horns.

thanks for this graham, its a terraced villa style house, one story at the front, two at the back with a foolishly small number of foolishly large rooms and 20% of the floor area given over to the hall. i really like it but i can’t work out why houses where built like this, what was the market? its in the east wall by the way.

so for the drift off topic.

I like the way, in the Merrion and especially Fitzwillian Square areas, if the ground-to-top floor windows of a house have been changed at some point, there’s almost always a nice 8-over-8 or 10-over-10 original sash lurking in the basement.

200 year old sash windows kick ass! You can’t beat the encrustation of paint, the panes of sparkling old glass here and there, and the general well-aged look.

Does n’t the area in front of the GPO which is now almost complete look absolutely great, especially now that the foilage is opening on the trees. What great vision and urban planning here and what a brilliant public space that has been created. It has given this part of the street an air of dignity, solemnity and style too. It will be a great location for holding any official events, commemerations, parades or pageants etc…
What a superb job and money well spent!

New guidelines for the design of shop fronts for O’Connell Street have been launched in an effort to restore O’Connell street back to its former glory.

The guidelines have been prepared by Howley Harrington architects in partnership with Dublin City Council.

A statement form the Council said: “Local businesses have also an important role to play in the physical transformation of the street and the restoration of the main civic thoroughfare of our capital city to its former architectural glory.”

The council has already demonstrated its commitment to the provision of a revitalised O’Connell Street with the Spire of Dublin and the ongoing construction of a grand civic plaza to the front of the GPO.

City Manager John Fitzgerald commented: “By the end of this year, LUAS will be traversing O’Connell Street at the junction with Abbey Street, making the street more accessible and bringing many new visitors to the street. Some shops and businesses have made their contribution by properly maintaining or successfully installing well designed and carefully constructed shop fronts and facades.”

Blue, thanks for that. where can one get a copy of those guidelines? are they on line or can they be got from the Council Offices?

Copies of the Shop Front Guidelines are available from Paul Crowe, Central Area Office
paul.crowe@dublincity.ie

Thanks for that Blue.

Phil

A little OT, but I noticed some really nice shop frontage work for the ‘Diagem’ phone shop at the top of Capel street. It was nothing special before (to say the least), but the building has been given a renovation, and the shop now has a tasteful and well finished steel and black glazed finish, with internal security shuttering. Discreet but effective signage. Was most impressed.

Thats because its a DCC flagship project. part of Living Over the Shop. The CC renovated the buildings so I guess their idea of what a good shop front should look like would be part of that. Its just a pity that their planning dept didnt see any inconsistency in allowing the monstrosity across the road to be built (corner Capel St and St Marys Abbey Luas line)

Yeah, I was also very impressed by these shops and now I’m even more impressed to hear that DCC are behind it.

But I totally agree, the new monstrosity where the Luas crosses Capel St is so out of place its unbelievable. Although its not finished there is enough of it to know what it’s going to look like. It’s just wrong on some many levels. This building wouldn’t look out of place in an early nineties technology park but certainly does on Capel St.

Its like the DCC had to redress their good work further down the street.

No. 2 Capel Street – Diagem – was not part of the DCC flagship – it was just 3 & 4. The refurbishment of 2 was a private initiative.

There was a ghastly oversized plastic fascia on the Diagem shop previously. But underneath that there was actually a nice ’50s black vitrolite shopfront. When the owners applied to refurbish the building a few years ago they sought to replace that shopfront with a modern wooden one. an taisce’s dublin planning committee asked that they retain the vitrolite one. Parts of the vitrolite were cracked and exact matching replacements couldn’t be got, so it was agreed to replace the whole thing in the same style. It’s a pity the original vitrolite couldn’t have been repaired, but I think the end result is good and looks smart.

Now if only somebody would do something about that awful ‘Pops Deli’ one on the corner.

Anyone see the arty air spot light show… (aka Bat signal)….which kicked off last night on O’Connell Street as part of the celebrations for the accession of the new membership states to the EU.
An art installation designed by Rafael Lozano Hemmer, which involves the participation of the public to design the light constellations, it looked brilliant as it lit up the sky with the Spire amongst it all. People stood in awe. It should become somewhat of a permanent feature.

see http://www.dublinelevation.net

Massive new light fittings are being placed at four corners of the new plaza – I await with interest….

Originally posted by J. Seerski
Massive new light fittings are being placed at four corners of the new plaza – I await with interest….

COOL! I take it that these will be to light up the spire??

At last!!

and that silly strip of light around the middle of the Spire can be removed??

well done eire worth all the money

damnit we need more clouds….

yeah i was impressed with it, its hard to get your head around how you could make an interesting unique design? anyone tried?

lasers shows etc have rarley been that good, beyond a brief novelty but i like this…. lots of ppl stopping to look

i think it be cooler if it was movely all the time. any get some good pictures of it, the one on the front of the times was good get ol jim larken in there, ya know getting the a _good_ picture. i was talking ones of the lights hitting the statues on top of the gpo but i din’t have zoon on me camera…

and yes oconnell streets looks good… whts ya think of the square trees…? the look really nice that they are budding so quickly… still would have prefferred the old ones…

That’s great. Somebody told me that the Burger bars on O’Connell St are to be removed, Burger King, MacDonalds etc. Is this true? And what sort of changes are being made to various shop fronts? I take it that neon lighting is now a no no.

That just sounds like wishful thinking Morlan…..

imho there to be bit too much street furniture ie poles, there put a pedestrain corssing right in front of jim larkin

im a big fan of the statue, (not so much the man) and altough the light fittings arn’t as big as the usuall black ones they do sorta stick in front of the statue taking from it’ll be hard to take picture without getting a traffic light in the frame

….no offence man, but have you been typing with you’re forehead

A good news story from O’Connell St….

I noticed a recent planning application to expand the Centra at 16 O’Connell St. This is the mid-terrace shop just after Clery’s. The proposal involved knocking through into No. 15 and erecting new signage etc. It would have looked awful and completely ruined the fact that these are two seperately designed buildings. The fact that there are already a zillion other convenience stores in the area added to my poor opionion of this development.

I was considering an objection and went to the Planning Office only to find the proposal had been refused by DCC on the ground that it would ruin the exsiting terrace and be contrary to the provisons of the new Architectural Conservation Area for O’C St. It also noted that no more permissions for fastfood outlets or convenience stores would be granted along O’Connell St.

A quiet victory of sorts and a promising development for the street.

Regarding the new lighting. There does seem to be an awful lots of lighting in the cental median. You can now see the fixtures that will be used. I have seem them used a lot in London. I am looking forward to the new lighting scheme being switched on… any idea when?

A good news story from O’Connell St….

I noticed a recent planning application to expand the Centra at 16 O’Connell St. This is the mid-terrace shop just after Clery’s. The proposal involved knocking through into No. 15 and erecting new signage etc. It would have looked awful and completely ruined the fact that these are two seperately designed buildings. The fact that there are already a zillion other convenience stores in the area added to my poor opionion of this development.

I was considering an objection and went to the Planning Office only to find the proposal had been refused by DCC on the ground that it would ruin the exsiting terrace and be contrary to the provisons of the new Architectural Conservation Area for O’C St. It also noted that no more permissions for fastfood outlets or convenience stores would be granted along O’Connell St.

A quiet victory of sorts and a promising development for the street.

Regarding the new lighting. There does seem to be an awful lots of lighting in the cental median. You can now see the fixtures that will be used. I have seem them used a lot in London. I am looking forward to the new lighting scheme being switched on… any idea when?

A good news story from O’Connell St….

I noticed a recent planning application to expand the Centra at 16 O’Connell St. This is the mid-terrace shop just after Clery’s. The proposal involved knocking through into No. 15 and erecting new signage etc. It would have looked awful and completely ruined the fact that these are two seperately designed buildings. The fact that there are already a zillion other convenience stores in the area added to my poor opionion of this development.

I was considering an objection and went to the Planning Office only to find the proposal had been refused by DCC on the ground that it would ruin the exsiting terrace and be contrary to the provisons of the new Architectural Conservation Area for O’C St. It also noted that no more permissions for fastfood outlets or convenience stores would be granted along O’Connell St.

A quiet victory of sorts and a promising development for the street.

Regarding the new lighting. There does seem to be an awful lots of lighting in the cental median. You can now see the fixtures that will be used. I have seem them used a lot in London. I am looking forward to the new lighting scheme being switched on… any idea when?

Maybe its just a guess, but those new ‘massive’ lights on the plaza maybe adjustable via remote control??

Also, I noted from the list of protected structures from DCC that ALL of the bollards in front of the GPO were protected – alas only two were re-installed. Who was responsible for this???!!!!

Otherwise the whole project seems o be coming together – in part at least. Then we have mayday to look forward to and it will be all wrecked…. Any bets on all those trees being intact on Tuesday next???!!!

Given that the crusties are supposed to be in favour of protecting the environment, I would’nt put it passed them however if they vandalized the trees and street. Such is their somewhat twisted and anarchic ideology. If that will be the case thay are no better than the gurriers who wantonly snap in half the newly planted tree saplings in housing estates.

Anyone see the plant containers that have been placed around the city….ie O’Connell Bridge, the Boardwalk, High Street. They have these new ‘Hanging Gardens of Babylon’ quirky looking 3 tiered things planted up with ivy and perennials as well as the regular box containers. Placed in proper street locations could look really good however. A great way of greening the city too.

Excellent Gabriel as usual!!!

Notice from one of the pics, that very interesting Irish disease:

Road signs half way down poles, grrrrrrrrrrrr

Nowhere else in the world is this witnessed!!

Thanks Graham, they’re greats pics.

It has been so long since I’ve been in Dublin, I didn’t realise that the roads on the street had been narrowed.

Is it buses and taxis only now?

Also, now that there is more footpath space, will the restaurants and pubs on the street be able to put some outdoor seating for the summer? There was always a lack of outdoor seating in Dublin in the summer compared to other Europeann cities.

you’d be surprised then morlan, outdoor seating is the thing for pubs since the smoking ban

Well done for all the photos.

The photo of the plaza from Clery’s illustrates very well the function of the curved edges of the pavements: to visually blend the higher surface into the lower surface and reduce the cluttering effect of pavement / road / pavement / road / pavement – make it look more like a unified plaza.

This trick reminds me of the ‘ha-ha’ at the end of the lawn at the back of Castletown House; a wall and ditch that prevented animals from coming right up to the back of the house, but looking from the house all you saw was the lawn blending into the parkland beyond.

I notice there is no provision for locking up bicycles along the new stretch and it looks like the new trees are going to be used instead as can you can see from Grahams photo which is a shame as it looks untidy and will damage the young trees.

Walked down in front of the GPO Tuesday night at about 10PM. WOW! Even in the rain it looked good.

The quality of the paving, the lighting, the trees – everything is to a high standard.

One thing, the traffic lanes are badly marked and I’d worry that pedestrians could easily stray into them (especially at night, in the rain).

As regards locking bikes to trees. The council shoud remove and impound them immediately. There should be a solution though, in fairness to cyclists. Some appropriate provision should be made to have discreet bike stands on the street or off it (say Princes street near Arnotts Car Park entrance).

I agree with earlier post re putting signs half way down poles. The tram crossing signs at the middle Abbbey St junction have this ailment. The signs are at the correct height but the poles are just too long!

Does anyone have any idea on when they are going to get working on the rest of the street? Let’s hope that they don’t wait too long. The plaza is lovely but the rest of the street is still very run down.

thats another thing i noticed, did anyone else? because of the way the plaza is all dark-grey block it is very difficult to know when to stop and pause before crossing the road, the idea is nice but in practice its disarming

in recent times i tried make a conscious effort not to jay walk but you do find yourself walking across the road not cos the lights has turned green but cos a number of people around have started to cross sheep like

btw the cobble-like tram line stretches look nice