Trinity to strike back at return of the Jedi
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Trinity to strike back at return of the Jedi
The Sunday IndependentThe Jedi are facing a new enemy in the form of Trinity College, Dublin, after allegations that a futuristic scene in the latest Star Wars film resembles the university’s Old Library. The college is considering suing director George Lucas who has no agreement with Trinity to use an image of the building.
“We are very protective of our buildings and the Long Room in the Old Library is a very important space. It gets half a million visitors a year. We are in close consultation with our legal advisors and, if necessary, will take action,” deputy librarian Robin Adams said. The row erupted after a report in the University Record suggested central scenes in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones take place in a library, the ‘Jedi Archives’, which resembles the TCD Long Room.
The room looks almost identical to the Trinity library, although traditional wood panelling has been replaced by blue lighting. Marble busts of historical Irish figures in the TCD building appear as statues of Star Wars characters in the film.
A spokeswoman for George Lucas said: ” “It is totally untrue that there is any connection between the scene in Attack of the Clones and Trinity College.”
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=833934&issue_id=8090
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Time for a wallow in famous buildings on film, surely? Like the Frank Lloyd Wright interior in Bladerunner (Harrison Ford character’s apartment). Or the amalgam of buildings used in Harry Potter (Durham Cathedral having refused to be turned into Hogwarts) etc.
The Trinity case is interesting, though: are they saying that the film makers made a set of the Trinity Library without permission? Where does that stand, copyright-wise?
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That seems to be the TCD position. Will be interesting to see what happens. My lawyer, a copyright expert who is helping me recoup money from people who have borrowed my photographs for their websites reckons that under Irish copyright law it could be argued that architects own the rights to the appearance of the building (wait for it) and thus could own the rights to any image of the building in question.
Note, I said “could”.
Would be very interesting for the world of postcards…..buildings in movies
Isn’t Wright’s Marin County building used in ‘Gattaca’?
Was recently in St Bricin’s Military hospital in Dublin which as been used in many films here in Ireland as the wards are more or less as built at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries….
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Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
… My lawyer, a copyright expert who is helping me recoup money from people who have borrowed my photographs for their websites reckons that …I’m surprised you are taking this line. The notional revenue generated by any website piccy must be far far behind the hassle and cost of dealing with a lawer –_surely?
not that I condone nicking pics. I just know I wouldn’t bother chasing someone (much) if I caught them at it.
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Good point, StephenC. what are the Trinity academics doing, watching flashy American movies?
Re copyright: a handful of organisations and architects have made moves to protect the image of their buildings – particularly the photos that are circulated. The Bilbao Guggenheim tried this, and failed. Nick Grimshaw discussed it in relation to the Eden Project, but I think found it to be a legal minefield and gave up.
And the brokers at Lloyd’s of London found that they were not allowed to issue images of their building – only Richard Rogers was allowed to do that.
It’s a funny one. Architects do indeed have copyright over their designs, but then since their buildings are in the public realm where anyone can take a photo, there’s not much they can do about it.
In Trinity’s case, there is no living architect for the old library, so I think they’re on a hiding to nothing anyway.
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ah, now that pic looks more convincing than the other one that has been bated around:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/jediarchives/img/movie_bg.jpg
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March 13, 2002
One of the new Coruscant sets we’ll see in EPISODE II is the Jedi Archive where Jocasta Nu spends a lot of her time.I have teamed up with artist Guy Lagacé of Binary Sunset to bring you a great rendering of what the Jedi Archive will look like based on reports from sources TFN_SUCKS and HANNIBAL.
While researching, Guy uncovered a little fact I thought might be interesting. It might give you a little insight as to where the inspiration for the Jedi Archive design came from, if true.
As it turns out, the Jedi Archive/Library is an almost exact replica of one of the finest libraries in the world – The Old Library of Trinity College in Dublin, Ireland. Here’s a description:
The interior of this building is celebrated and deservedly so. It is a long room with a succession of bays on either side, which provide shelf room for thousands of books. The entrance to each recess is flanked with beautiful red-brown old oak carvings, beneath which stand white busts representing great names in science and literature. The perspective is very fine, the arched roof of pinewood, the endless bays, the sculpture, all filing away into the remote distance. The proportions have been so well handled that, despite its great length, 240 feet, the library does not look narrow, no matter where the point of view is taken. It is splendidly lit from both sides, for each bay to right and left terminates in a large window, and the daylight streams in through no less than a hundred
In glass cases down the centre are contained the artistic and literary treasures of the college, so numerous and interesting as to form a fine museum. Illuminated manuscripts, early printed books, first editions, historical letters, gilt bindings, old woodcuts and engravings, biblical texts, Shakespeare, Caxton, Elzevir, Pindar, are all represented here. The most famous item in the collection is the Book of Kells, the product of an eighth century Irish monastery (detail, right). It is a manuscript of the Gospels in Latin, illuminated in a most varied and intricate style. The colouring is delicate and harmonious. Each page of this work must have taken months to execute. The marvel of the achievement is that such skill and taste were shown in Ireland at a time when all Europe, including England, was sunk in the barbarism of the Dark Ages. Such books were highly valued, and sometimes formed part of a king’s ransom during the tribal wars of the period.
That’s some pretty cool stuff and thanks to Guy for digging it up. I have to admit, the two look very much alike and it will be interesting to see if it’s just a coincidence or if there was some real inspiration there.
Enjoy the pic by Guy Lagacé. Trust me, the Archive in EPISODE II looks A LOT like this but with different statues and a few other minor changes.
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Hello all
I am really interested in your discussion. Sorry for my English I am French.
I am not that much architecture fan, but I am a Star Wars enthusiast.
About the current case, I don’t know about the current state of copyright for artistic buildings, and on my opinion (I am totally candid about that), the building is very old, and seems to be really great, and it may expects more tourists in the next years.
On the Star Wars level, I bought a book for my brother about the design in Episode II, it’s off course a LucasFilm books, but it’s, if I remember well, clearly written that the main inspiration for the Jedi Archives, was the Trinity College’s Library. It’s a big and heavy books with hundreds of pictures inside.
Moreover here is what I found about on the above mentionned StarWars web site :
The stately architecture and vaulted ceilings of the Jedi Archives Room were inspired by a variety of real-world libraries, including the Vatican and those found in old English estates. A bare minimum of the set was constructed — only Kenobi’s immediate work area and several busts were constructed. The majority of the scenery — the rows and rows of holobooks and high ceilings — were realized as miniatures.
The page is:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/jediarchives/bts.htmlI am sorry but I don’t remember the name of the book, it’s may be: The Art of Attack of the Clones.
Bye and thanks for reading 🙂
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Trinity considers legal action over image in Star Wars film
The Irish TimesTrinity College Dublin is taking legal advice on whether Star Wars director Mr George Lucas used an image of the college’s famous Long Room library without its permission or knowledge.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2002/1112/296783840HM3DONSWARS.html
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Trinity considers legal action over image in Star Wars film
From: Ireland.com
Tuesday, 12th November, 2002Trinity College Dublin is taking legal advice on whether Star Wars director Mr George Lucas used an image of the college’s famous Long Room library without its permission or knowledge.
The Long Room, which forms part of Trinity’s 18th century Old Library building, is regarded as one of the most impressive libraries in Europe. It attracts half a million visitors a year and is nearly 65 metres in length.
A spokeswoman said yesterday the college was aware that a scene from Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones included shots of a building that appeared very similar to the Long Room. The college’s librarian, Mr Robin Adams, has been studying the images for the past few weeks and legal action may be instigated. The college said no agreement had been reached with Mr Lucas or his companies to use the image.
Fans of the Star Wars series have been speculating about the similarities for the last few weeks. The website irish-architecture.com has also entered the debate by suggesting the two images are remarkably similar.
“The similarities are obvious, from the arched barrel vault running the length of the room to the double-height book stacks. Even the busts and statuary of the Jedi Archive mirror the busts of figures from the academic world in the Long Room,” claims the site.
“Is it too much of a coincidence that designers at Lucas Films would produce a library with not only a similar book arrangement to the Long Room, but a similar roof? A roof that was not original but added by later generations to solve a specific problem?” A spokesman for Mr Lucas, however, denied there was any connection between the Long Room and the Jedi Archives featured in the film.
The Long Room houses around 200,000 of Trinity’s oldest books. When built, it had a flat plaster ceiling, with shelves for books on the lower level only, and an open gallery. By the 1850s these shelves had become full. Marble busts of philosophers such as Plato and Socrates are placed down either side of the room. One of the dozen or so remaining copies of the 1916 Proclamation of the Republic is also on display.
By Emmet Oliver, Education Correspondent
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In all this discussion about this, do Trinity have a leg to stand on? It’s not like Lucasfilms make a replica of the original; it’s merely a drawing. Does copyright apply to the mere image of a building rather than the actual blueprints?
If it does also apply to the mere image, then wouldn’t you have to get permission for _every_ building you feature in a film?
Also, who owns the copyright to the image – not necessarily the owner, I would imagine. And since Thomas Burgh is long dead, who gets it? And has the copyright run out by now? (It’s 300 years later, after all).I have a feeling all this will leave Trinity looking either silly or greedy or both. In my mind, they should:
* issue loads of press releases saying how flattered they are with the “homage”
* behind the scenes, do a deal with Lucafilms to have some kind of exhibition with them with all the ensuring financial benefits and free _positive_ publicity that would bring
P.
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Originally posted by ro_G
ah, now that pic looks more convincing than the other one that has been bated around:The reason for that is that someone made the star wars image in a paint program. A friend of mine has just made a new image in Gimp with the two pictures as two layers. When we fade the top images transparency in and out it is a complete joke. The ceiling and the hand rails half way up the sides are exactly the same, pixel for pixel.
Edit: It is in fact a render, made before the film came out by Guy La Gacé, who works for Binary Sunset. You can view the article here: http://www.cinescape.com/24/editorial.asp?aff_id=24&this_cat=Prequel+News&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=235959&obj_id=33433
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Nope, not I. The “archive” image is taken from a cinema site, while the Long Room image is scanned from a book and cropped to the same size (by me).
Besides these two images, the story had appeared in the Sindo and TCD University Record beforehand with different and equally compelling images. The Irish Times used different images this morning I believe.
I have plenty of work to do without fabricating stuff.
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I am not a big Star Wars fan, but any efforts to drag Jedi to the court room will be interesting to watch.
If Rolyat’s memory was right, and there was some official commentd on a book made by Lucas Film personnel about what building inspired them most when they “created” Jedi Archives, it would put Lucas Film in awkward position.
Toatlly depedending on what Irish copyright law says, but I think TCD has a case. Denial of allegation from Lucas Film is the greatest indicator of TCD’s case.
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Since the DVD is now out, I suggest everyone goes and watches the Jedi Library scene. At NO point in the movie is the library roof seen. The image on starwars.com:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/jediarchives/img/movie_bg.jpg
is pretty much all we see in the movie. Whoever created the roof for the RENDERING in the Cinescape article:
is the one that ripped off the roof. Granted, it is very similar to the Trinity library, it isn’t an exact duplicate as Trinity would have everyone believe.
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I am new to this forum. I have been enjoying the site and am a fan of both great architecture (the Long Room is truly one of the great vistas in architecture), and I am also a movie buff.
Having said that, I have to wonder whether the wise stance is to sue someone over something like this.
Why not take advantage of the positive publicity and enbrace the similarities, regardless of whether it was actually used or not.
Who knows, it may have been that the person who designed the Jedi room for the Star Wars movie had visited or had seen the Long Room in a book at some point in their life. It then left such a lasting lasting and wonderful impression on them that it just came out during the making of this movie.
They may never have realized that the ‘idea’ for it was anything other than than something very beautiful and majestic that was in their mind as the perfect impression for this Jedi room.
This world has become so sue happy in recent years. It is out of hand all over the world, and I sense this greedy path is destroying so much…particularly in my native US.
It seems that it is often easier to take the easy way and sue, rather than take a more positive approach.
Wouldn’t it actually be better to have the publicity be positive?
Why not simply utilize this very positive and actually quite flattering opportunity for some pretty impressive pubicity for the building and its architecture? As the saying goes, imitation is the surest form of flattery.
Just a thought … thanks for listening.
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I remember watching the film and thinking it was the spit of The Long Room, but thought that it was based on an American University copy instead.
I hope that the Jedi archivist is a damed site less precious about who dares to breath on the records thena Trinity, where I remember that you basically had to be the seventh son of a Vestal Virgin eunuch to access the upper levels.
Anyway a far more productive tactic for Trinners would be to strike a merchandising deal with Lucas and further their media whore status.P.S. note to Paul Clerkin, why not use a watermark function in your graphics packageor an encrypting type package like Adobe Writer to stamp your images? It can de done where it is visible but not distracting and sould make the image look dodgy of cropped.
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