Time to Complete the M50?

It can’t happen until they bring in legislation that would stop people being compensated for tunnels going under their land imho. That legislation was promised by Brennan but has died a death.

Is that a coonstitutional issue (ie requiring a referendum), or a legislative one that can be rectified thru the Dail? Btw jdivision did you get my pm re building by City Hall?

Well you certainly make an well argued point!

@fergalr wrote:

Well you certainly make an well argued point!

Many thanks 🙂

@jdivision wrote:

It can’t happen until they bring in legislation that would stop people being compensated for tunnels going under their land imho. That legislation was promised by Brennan but has died a death.

They would have to be able to prove that there is absolutely no chance that tunnelling will not increase the chance of n subsidence or that particular piece of legislation will never ever pass.

I don’t think urban motorways are good for cities. They divert far less traffic away from the city compared to the quantity of new local car journeys they encourage. Urban motorways either operate as large car parks like the M50/M25 or else (if built to a sufficient capacity for freeflow) they have a huge knock on effect on local traffic feeding the back bone. Consequences: pollution road deaths more atomised unpleasant city. If the eastern bypass were built I would use it all the time because I am as lazy as the next guy.

Sadly, the more viable car transport becomes, the less viable public transport becomes. Building a motorway along the same route as the DART will draw passengers away and make the train less popular.

As for building stuff in Dublin Bay, I agree 100%. The bird sanctuary is indeed a modern manmade invention. It looks awful. The birds have only been there around 150 years. The new mud islands are not the most impressive structures.

I would like to see land reclaimed to the East of the maritime DART stations, that lose half their catchment area to the sea. Blackrock, Booterstown, Seapoint, Monkstown. This land would be used for car free housing and shops. DART should be increased to frequency at least as good as the luas and the level crossings and diesel-train-from-rosslare farce should be eliminated.

@Frank Taylor wrote:

I don’t think urban motorways are good for cities. They divert far less traffic away from the city compared to the quantity of new local car journeys they encourage. Urban motorways either operate as large car parks like the M50/M25 or else (if built to a sufficient capacity for freeflow) they have a huge knock on effect on local traffic feeding the back bone. Consequences: pollution road deaths more atomised unpleasant city.

Plus: Braess’s Paradox might be relevant here?

@ctesiphon wrote:

Plus: Braess’s Paradox might be relevant here?

Now thats a theory and a half…Theres a lot of merit to it, in that reducing options can indeed speed up traffic – as would seem to be the case with DCCs inner orbital routing of traffic around the city, as opposed to thru the city as was the case.

Regarding Frank Taylor’s point, I too am against urban motorways as they destroy the environment – hence my second paragraph. However if the M Way was routed as a tunnel from Sandyford to Booterstown with no (or only one) junctions, ie an actual bypass, and no dodgy Jackson way type rezonings, and thus onto the port, then surely there would be a lot of pros; think about it – 10 km of primarily tunnel as opposed to 80 km of greenfield destruction which is what theyre currently looking at… Maybe its not ideal, but it would certainly strike me as the lesser of two evils.

All current plans for the Eastern bypass envision a tunnel and it’s hard to argue against that, not least because of the unbelievable planning difficulties that would arise in building it across the bay.
Somewhere along the line, the surface roadway proposed would have to be integrated to the existing M50 requiring a massive completely surface-based interchange.
There is also a serious question of where would you bring the road to land without razing a huge amount of houses. Do you bring it back to existing dry land at Dun Laoghaire, Bray or somewhere in between? And if so, what gap do you use?
Also, I don’t think the issue is building one or the other.
The Eastern Bypass and a second orbital motorway (perhaps the M100) are both badly needed to cater for current traffic needs, aside from what may arise in the future. Aside from that, other topics worth considering are a second international airport and container port in the Greater Dublin Region, both of them on the outer M100.
This country needs to start thinking in terms of catering to a population of probably 6 million people by 2020. Public transport initiatives are required but there’s not a single piece of the motorway programme that isn’t also necessary.

@kefu wrote:

All current plans for the Eastern bypass envision a tunnel and it’s hard to argue against that, not least because of the unbelievable planning difficulties that would arise in building it across the bay.

What about concealing the Bay Conduit in the dyke?

@kefu wrote:

Somewhere along the line, the surface roadway proposed would have to be integrated to the existing M50 requiring a massive completely surface-based interchange.

Plans are to incorporate it into the Sandyford interchange, which is already massive

@kefu wrote:

There is also a serious question of where would you bring the road to land without razing a huge amount of houses. Do you bring it back to existing dry land at Dun Laoghaire, Bray or somewhere in between? And if so, what gap do you use?

Booterstown, as again already planned by Dun Laoghaire council

@kefu wrote:

Also, I don’t think the issue is building one or the other. The Eastern Bypass and a second orbital motorway (perhaps the M100) are both badly needed to cater for current traffic needs,

Poppycock. With all due respect Kefu the western-bypass-of-the-M50-bypass would be grossly wasteful of money as well as the immediate environmental impact]aside from what may arise in the future. Aside from that, other topics worth considering are a second international airport and container port in the Greater Dublin Region, both of them on the outer M100.
This country needs to start thinking in terms of catering to a population of probably 6 million people by 2020. Public transport initiatives are required but there’s not a single piece of the motorway programme that isn’t also necessary.[/QUOTE]

Again fundamentally disagree; Braemore harbour is beside existing M1, while Baldonnell airport is beside M7. As for all of the motorways being required, this too is total poppycock – we are getting a radial system which splits into seperate branchs far too close to Dublin. An option that would have been more efficient would have had Dublin – Cork routed by Kilkenny with a branch to Waterford, while Dublin to Galway should have been routed via Birr and split at Portumna with a branch to Limerick. Equally routing the Dublin – Cork mway along the rail line with a branch to Limerick from Limerick Junction would also have been far more efficient.

And then there’s the option of upgrading existing roads to a two+one system which is also the answer in many instances… But then I take it your for the Tara Motorway 😡 🙁

Ah Mr. Kefu Mc Alpine CIF Ascon, I suspect we disagree! :p

One simple question: how do you propose getting this motorway standard 75-metre wide (minimum) road from Booterstown Marsh to Sandyford (a distance of up to 6.1 miles according to the route planner on AA Roadwatch)?
Are you suggesting that the already heavily congested local road network would suffice or do you propose a large-scale demolition of houses to make way for the link?
Your suggestion that the eradication of the toll on the Westlink would somehow make a scintilla of a difference is to coin your own phrase “poppycock”.
Yet not quite perhaps as nonsensical as the notion that Baldonnell Aerodrome (at the epicentre of the single most congested traffic zone in the country) is somehow a suitable location for a major international airport.

kefu, the reservation is there from booterstown near the Radisson, a flyover on the N11, up along the side of UCD and onwards to Sandyford where it will connect with the recent Drummartin link road which will be upgraded to motorway standard… if you see aerial photgraphy you can pick it out.. not sure if there’s demolition required as around the Foster’s avenue/ Mt Merrion area i dunno if the reservation exists. it’s all there on the Dun LAoghaire plans though..

it’s a massive waste of money anyway. As we all know, most of the national motorways are massively over designed for the levels of traffic that will use them. In the case of the M1/2/3 at one point 2 of the 3 are practically parallel for the first 50 miles from Dublin. The Tara debate centred around commuting to Dublin but National Routes outside built up areas are not for commuters, they’re for linking economic areas (ie cities) by high quality high speed links. thanks to utter ineptitude by the government in relation to land use and transport we have a completely bolloxed situaiton where people have to use strategic routes for up to 60 km each way to get to work and others are actually willing to write on message boards advocating the utter molestation of vast swathes of the landscape to faciltate unsustainable transport modes,

to state that “there’s not a single piece of the motorway programme that isn’t also necessary. ” displays gross ignorance of how transport works. Go read a book on it and next time that fucking cabbage garden gnome Cullen is spewing out how many hundreds of millions he’s spent on allowing one man or woman from Drogheda to now spend 3 hours a day driving on a motorway towards Dublin to work rather than the situation a fewvdecades ago where the same person could have done the journey on a shit road in 2 hours, think about how fucking ridiculous the situaiton really is. However ridding the toll will not help, removing the barrier will but the toll has to remain and the entire route needs to be managed

but if you want to see what rampant motorway building does to a city region, go to birmingham or coventry

and how the fuck is baldonnel at the epicentre pf the single most congested traffic zone in the country? do you have data to back up that claim? and in any case, the present site will cater for all the passengers we’ll ever want, with potential for 3 terminals, which may equate to 60 million PAX. how big an airport can the region sustain ffs??? and how much air traffic do we want?

I agree Dublin Port needs to move to Bremore but that does not require a motorway. The DOOR (Dublin OUter Regional Route).. Substitute “Route” for “motorway”.. whaddya get??? could be a 2+1 route if it’s built, but here;s a mad radical out-there suggestion…. RAIL FREIGHT!!! remember that??? no? didn’t think so

all in all a radical rethink is needed in relation to integrated land use and planning, whereas those fucking arses in government can’t even get 1 poxy bus on the streets or one poxy ticketing scheme and Cullen seems incapable of signing railway orders while he manages to sign off on motorway schemes like he was launching his poxy memoirs in Easons.

but no matter how many railways and roads these dumbards manage to build, as long as farmer Ivor Bigfield and Councillors Ivana Rezonitforja and Phil McWallett are responsible for the Development process, the sprawl will go on and on and on, until Longford gets a Dublin postcode….

@alonso wrote:

that fucking cabbage garden gnome Cullen

ROFL 😀 Ive never heard a more apt description of Cullen 😀

Re Kefu’s point as to route from Sandyford to Booterstown, just to clarify, I propose a tunnel.

@alonso wrote:

as long as farmer Ivor Bigfield and Councillors Ivana Rezonitforja and Phil McWallett are responsible for the Development process, the sprawl will go on and on and on, until Longford gets a Dublin postcode

– which is another reason why the bypass of the M50 thru Meath and Kildare would be a disaster – motorway junctions in this country are synonymous with rezonings & sprawl. This is not just corrupt rezonings, but also as councils race to the bottom planning-wise trying to make up a commercial rates base in order to offset the loss of a revenue base that went with getting rid of rates in ’79.

@alonso wrote:

all in all a radical rethink is needed in relation to integrated land use and planning, whereas those fucking arses in government can’t even get 1 poxy bus on the streets or one poxy ticketing scheme and Cullen seems incapable of signing railway orders while he manages to sign off on motorway schemes like he was launching his poxy memoirs in Easons.

– Agree 110%. However that does not mean that the motorway circle around Dublin shouln’t be completed – as well

@kefu wrote:

Your suggestion that the eradication of the toll on the Westlink would somehow make a scintilla of a difference is to coin your own phrase “poppycock”.

Where is the main bottleneck on the M50? I’ll give you a clue – it involves a bridge where vehicles have to stop so as to pay; I wonder if you were to ask the drivers of those cars as to whether it makes “a scintilla of a difference” or not, what would they say? I know which way my money is placed on that one 😉

@ctesiphon wrote:

Plus: Braess’s Paradox might be relevant here?

Also see the theory of induced demand which predicts that adding extra capacity to a road can increase the traffic on that road, often to a point where the traffic ends up at the same speed as before.

There is a dire need for an outer bypass of Dublin, a vast amount of truck based transport from Northern Ireland bund for Rosslare or Cork Harbour has to travel via the M50 (count the amount of yellow reg’s to support this) and a route from Drogheda area to the M7/M9 interchange at Kilcullen would make perfect sense particularly if the M9 is to be upgraded to become the main route to Waterford, Rosslare and Kilkenny.

Ideally it should be a green route with development banned from it from the off though!

@Rory W wrote:

There is a dire need for an outer bypass of Dublin, a vast amount of truck based transport from Northern Ireland bund for Rosslare or Cork Harbour has to travel via the M50 (count the amount of yellow reg’s to support this) and a route from Drogheda area to the M7/M9 interchange at Kilcullen would make perfect sense particularly if the M9 is to be upgraded to become the main route to Waterford, Rosslare and Kilkenny.!

Fair enough – I don’t disagree that the current M50 isn’t overused; but surely the traffic from the North going to Rosslare would be far better served by going by the M11 – as would be facilitated by what I propose?

Other than that, perhaps one of the 3 lanes (soonish-to-be) on the M50 be dedicated specifically to truck traffic?

And of course there is always the chronic under utilisation of our railways for freight – but don’t get me started on that one 😡 !

😉

I suppose an eastern bypass tunnelled under Dublin Bay would remove one potential problem that has plagued the M50: rezoning land around the motorway for development. Or would councilor Jimmy O’Brownenvelope still manage to get a retail warehouse thrown up on the seabed?

However, isn’t all this debate over transport solutions to reduce congestion a case of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic while a consensus in government and Irish society favours sprawling suburban development and carpet bombing the countryside with one-off houses? The step foward that better transport infrastructure represents will be more than be cancelled out by the two steps back of ever more sprawling car dependent development and a hostility to high density urban living.

Excellent idea Hutton, unfortunately with our dithering government I doubt we would never get over the bureaucratic hurdles to get it done. We need a Chairman Mau! 🙂

Basic Sums
– €5 Billion to build road
– €9 Billion Land Bank created after construction

What is the NRA preferred route? Was looking on the net but could not find a drawing so i did my own instead. Any suggestions or alterations?

Will: bear in mind that Poolbeg nature reserve is a protected Special Area of Conservation. Your idea is frankly horrible, To sever a city from it’s greatest amenity with a motorway is an affront to urbanism. And also be aware that Sandymount residents are assembling the greatest legal brains affordable to opposed the S2S cycleway, so can you imagine what they’ll do for this.

In any case if you zoom in on Google Earth you can pick out the reserved overground route through St. Helen’s Booterstown, beside Foster’s Avenue, underground at this point to re-emerge and join the Drummartin link road, which will become a motorway as far as the M50 Sandyford junction.

@alonso wrote:

And also be aware that Sandymount residents are assembling the greatest legal brains affordable to opposed the S2S cycleway, so can you imagine what they’ll do for this.

Whats their beef with the cycle lane alonso ?

have to agree willinator, dreadful proposal.

@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:

Whats their beef with the cycle lane alonso ?

have to agree willinator, dreadful proposal.

I was at a meeting once about the Bay, and some resident got extremely animated about S2S. Some oul one. She didn’t express the exact issue but proceeded to rant about it. I think they’re scared that if there’s a cycle lane along the coast, people will actually use it for cycling. In her world this translates as a bunch of hippies (like John Gormley) belting along the promenade knocking over pensioners and poodles while waving dreamcatchers and spliffs. I also, believe it or fricking not, read someone referring to it as a trojan horse for the development of the Bay – yes a “trojan horse” – a cycle lane. Madness!

Will: bear in mind that Poolbeg nature reserve is a protected Special Area of Conservation.

I would propose consealing the motorway within the sea wall dyke. A new promenade could be created the far side of this dyke with breakwater rock armour deposited 300m from shore. This would encourage a new area of sand deposition and beach shore line and restore the city’s “greatest amenity” (sic)

To sever a city from it’s greatest amenity with a motorway is an affront to urbanism.

Let’s not exaggerate the value of the foul smelling mud flats of Sandymount. lol. I trained there once a week for 2 years with Donnybrook GAA, because of the complete lack of suitable facilities in D4. I would much rather train on part of the 900 aces of land that would be dedicated to sports and recreational facilities. GAA Clubs, Inner city Soccer academy, flood lit athletics track for all the joggers who use the promenade. The possibilities are endless. Then the people who wish to live in the heart of our cities could enjoy the same facilities as those in suburbia

And also be aware that Sandymount residents are assembling the greatest legal brains affordable to opposed the S2S cycleway, so can you imagine what they’ll do for this.

I could not care less about some self-serving geriatric lobby group. Nobody has a right to a view or an aspect. Anything they have can be replicated the far side of the dyke. The greater good is served by this project. Up to 120,000 people could be accommodated in a suitably designed scheme, The Sprawl of Dublin in the North, West, and South directions, is destroying the countryside and creating completely unsustainable communities dependant on the motor car. We need to build East!

if you zoom in on Google Earth you can pick out the reserved overground route through St. Helen’s Booterstown, beside Foster’s Avenue,……..

Thanks, I didn’t know that. My drawing is only a schematic I’m sure there is a much better routing that will fulfill the same objective.

There certainly is a precedent for something like this in the area: The old coastguard’s house, for example, lies at the junction of Sandymount Road and Tritonville Road, now several hundred metres inland. At one stage this was directly on the seashore. The church in Irishtown – I’m not sure which denomination it is – also apparently has a ring built into its rear wall, to which ships used to be tied. I’ve never actually seen this, but I’ve been told this is the case.

So similar developments to the one suggested above have certainly happened in the past. However, I’d imagine that any plan to implement it would make the current kerfuffle about the Jury’s hotel site look extremely sedate by comparison.

@The Willinator wrote:

What is the NRA preferred route? Was looking on the net but could not find a drawing so i did my own instead. Any suggestions or alterations?

There’s not much online regards the route. This is the most accurate I’ve seen so far by someone using a basic paint program (the Red Route).

AFAIK there is a reserved corridor for the purposes of the Eastern Bypass. Route heads north from Sandyford interchange
along existing link road (to be upgraded to mway) then turns east via small tunnel/surface sections through green areas alongside fosters ave, interchange
with N11 at Radisson then tunnel under the bay, surfacing somewhere in the docks. not sure where the southern portal will be. maybe no-one is. 😉

Another thing I’d say is still up in the air is the spot where the M50 will cross the liffey.

This road is inevitable as the East Link Bridge is beyond capacity. Took me 40 mins to get 1 mile from Sandymouint to Ringsend last week.
All because of the East Link ‘que’ 😡

Hardly a new plan anyway – Utilising both the North and South Bulls was planned by Patrick Abercrombie in 1920 something – I remember the North Bull was going to be industry but cannot remember what the South Bull was for, must look it up.

As for the residents of Sandymount – I would have thought having the Strand road returned as something approaching normality rather than the congested mess would be welcomed, but then again they think cycle paths are going to enforce development on them!!! Nutters

Roads, roads and more roads. Will we ever learn.

Ever hear of trams, undergrounds, metros, s-bahns, u-bahns…????

@onthejob wrote:

Roads, roads and more roads. Will we ever learn.

Ever hear of trams, undergrounds, metros, s-bahns, u-bahns…????

Build them and I’ll use them.

Roads, roads and more roads. Will we ever learn.

Ever hear of trams, undergrounds, metros, s-bahns, u-bahns…????

onthejob, I accept your point. But the real value in this project is the reclamation of up to 900 acres of land in the heart of the city. This land will need motorway access.

Inside the 900 acres of virgin land, a new quarter of the city would be built. Starting from scratch we could have any form of public transport we desire. There would even be plenty of space for J C Deceaux free bicycles! 🙂

This is to facilitate the construction of the LUAS Bridge at Carrickmines as part of the LUAS extension from Sandyford to Cherrywood.

The temporary overnight closure will be from 8 p.m. on Saturday Night 17th November, 2007 to 11 a.m. Sunday Morning 18th November, 2007.

A diversion route will be the same as last weekend and be in place from Junction 17 (M11-M50 merge) to follow the M11, then the N11/Bray Road, then N11/Stillorgan Road turning onto leopardstown Rad (at White’s Cross) and arrive to the M50 Junction 14 at Leopardstown (and vice cersa).

Traffic from Glenamuck Road South to follow Ballyogan Road to M50 Junction 14 at Leopardstown and then follows the M50 Northbound or the N11 detour for the Southbound. Local Access will be permitted to and from Lower Glenamuck Road North.

A Traffic Management Plan will be in operation and diversions will be signposted.

Route Option One (€3.95bn at 2015 prices): 2.5km viaduct, nine metres above the ground, across Dublin Port, tunnel under Dublin Bay, viaduct across Sandymount strand with a tunnel under Booterstown and tunnel from the N11 to Sandyford interchange.

Route Option Two (€4.2bn): High viaduct across the Port, with a tunnel under bay, across Sandymount Strand, under Booterstown and from the N11 to Sandyford.

Route Option Three (€4.35bn): Cut and cover tunnel across the Port. Tunnel under bay, across Sandymount Strand and under Booterstown and a part tunnel from the N11 to Sandyford.

THE TIMESCALE:

2008-2011: Statutory procedures, including planning and design stage.

2012: Land purchases.

2013: Contract awarded.

2018: Eastern bypass opens.

Paul Melia
Irish Independent

……….looks like its going ahead

By Paul Melia

Wednesday January 07 2009

MOTORISTS will be tolled to cover the potential €4bn cost of an ambitious motorway under Dublin Bay.

A new report obtained by the Irish Independent reveals details of the proposed 11km Eastern motorway running from the Port Tunnel to the M50.

The bypass would complete a full ring motorway for the capital, closing the gap between the Port Tunnel and the M50, and could be built within 10 years.

The scheme was first mooted in the 1970s, and is an objective in the Dublin Transportation Office’s Platform for Change strategy, published in 2000.

According to the new report, costs could be as high as €4.35bn, calculated at 2015 prices.

And the consultant’s report prepared for the National Roads Authority says it is technically feasible and economically viable, with the economic benefit running at more than double the construction costs.

It would be tolled, and could take in €38m a year in revenue, while the bypass would cost €14m to maintain.

But the project has serious implications for the future of Dublin Port.

Two studies are under way on the future of Dublin Bay, and a decision will have to be made on whether the port should remain in its current location or move to free-up large tracts of land near the city centre.

Traffic

The bypass would do much more than take traffic out of the city centre and off the M50 on the west side of the city. An objective of providing the road is that the Poolbeg Peninsula and South Port area could be developed to provide homes and businesses in the heart of the city, instead of continuing expansion on the outer fringes of the capital.

The report says it is possible to “largely avoid” impacts for buildings and communities by following existing road reservations, but it notes the protected status of much of Dublin Bay.

Parts are deemed to be natural heritage areas and special protection areas, meaning that wildlife must be protected.

It says that undeveloped lands along the proposed route could be reserved, in particular the grounds of the Radisson St Helen’s Hotel at the Stillorgan Road. It rules out the complete project being tunnelled.

This first feasibility study into the scheme splits the proposed route into four sectors.

The first deals with the section from the Dublin Port Tunnel toll plaza through the Port and to Sandymount, and recommends that a tunnel or a high viaduct or bridge just downstream of the East Link bridge should be built, to take between 32,000-56,000 vehicles a day.

The second section, at Sandymount Strand, could see a tunnel built along the coastline or a viaduct constructed 1km off-shore. Traffic will travel through the third section, from Booterstown to the N11 at UCD, via a tunnel with 1.2km running underneath UCD, before continuing underground to the Sandyford interchange of the M50 via Kilmacud, completing the ring-road.

Three options have been finalised, costing between €3.95bn and €4.35bn at 2015 prices. At 2007 costs, the bill would run from €2.6bn and €3.2bn.

– Paul Melia

Why don’t they just build a big, beautiful suspension bridge which would be a a true “gateway” to Dublin from the Irish Sea.

Why are we still talking about building roads in Dublin city and in the next breath the minister for transport is yapping on about how we have to get more people on the buses and trains??????????
Course he’s completely screwed that up by allowing CIE and Dublin Bus to raise ticket prices, and reduce services!!!!He hasn’t a leg to stand on.
The size of Dublin would suggest to any sane person that roads are simply not a solution.First and foremost, at the very top of the list should be public transport.In big fat capital letters.Roads around the country are one thing….from city to city….but roads within Dublin, forget it.We need trains/trams/buses. Metros are an excellent idea, but it’s difficult to do given the compensation culture we have created. A possibility in that regard would be to bring a tram system to various points around the outer city limits from the centre, and connect in with a metor system to the outer suburbs.Or vice versa. Almost all of Dublin’s public transport aims to get a person within the city centre.There is very little thought given to how you connect to go elsewhere, or how to get from suburb to suburb.Say you live in skerries and work in blanchardstown.What are your options to get to work, other than driving?Particularly if you’ve to be in by say, 8am.Or from Bray to Castleknock?
Bottom line….forget the roads for a few years and upgrade our public transport in an integrated manner.
And pigs might fly…!!!

Perhaps the minister meant more people on fewer buses, obviously there isn’t enough overcrowding for his liking

The eastern bypass is vital for the infastructure of Dublin. i’m not one of those let’s build roads everywhere. But this single project would give Dublin a proper orbital road. It will not only relieve traffic for the Westlink as the only alternative to avoid the city centre, but it will ease citybound traffic from the west using the North approaches to the city. When you can have another eastern bypass allowing greater capactiy and proper integration of through traffic from one side of the city, to a circular route. It’s actually a lung for the city. It will also give greater access for the southern suburbs to the North without having to go through the city, or travel all the way around the busy M50 to go via M1 and the North or visa versa.

This bypass is not just some road project. It’s vital to complete the Motorway infastructure. We have very few motorways in our capital city. All our car traffic cannot depend on the M50 in the near future. If the westlnk breaks down, the city comes to a complete standstill. Having an eastern bypass and having a full orbital allows greater traffic movement throughout the city. Our city is like most European cities with narrow streets, and cannot handle motor traffic, but there is absaloutely nothing farce about building this road project. It doesnt have any impact on the city other than taking traffic out of the city Not only that this bypass will take thousands of vehicles on other areas, that currently trundle through inchicore, Davitt road, south circular, Ringsend, Ballsbridge, Sandymount, Pearse street, Dunlaoighre and even bridges like Matt talbot bridge, which is congested on most part’s of the day. All these areas, have traffic that would use the eastlnk bypass.

Nice speech about…well… about nothing really. €4b just to make things nice a complete looking ay? Can’t have a C road? No, it has to be a full ring. It look good on a map.

i’m not one of those let’s build roads everywhere

humm… are you sure about that :rolleyes:

And yet there is not a single mention about public transport. Do you not think that spending that same €4b on public transport won’t do a better job. You don’t think a DART out to Kildare town and Drogheda won’t help to ease congestion.

Irish Rail wants to do this but the Government cheapskate this plan under Transport 21 and only went as far as Balbriggan on the Drogheda line and as far as Hazlehatch on the Kildare line saving themselves around €300m in not doing so.

I know a great way to ease traffic congestion around Dublin, Why not build more roads to encourage more cars to use them. Heaven forbid providing an alternative to the car which might mean less cars on the road and therefore less congestion on the existing roads. 😎

I don’t think this project is worth it… its going to get so many appeals….

The NRA need to fix college green first…

The money would be better spent on metro style links within the canals…
and getting rid of the loop line bridge or high speed metro tunnel towards drogheda

The problem with the city is if you want to go from tallaght to the airport it will take 2.5 hours

the NRA can build tunnels for metros for a few years… or fix college green

The money would be better spent on metro style links within the canals…

The money would be better spent on the interconnector, period ! (as george bush might say).

Good post, the short sightedness of the Government will cost a lot more in the long run. Towns like Newbridge, Sallins & Naas, Drogheda need the DART in order to really make people switch to Publc Transport and reduce congestion on the N/M7 and M1. Numbers using Newbridge Station are actually down as a result of bad service and pay parking.

@weehamster wrote:

Nice speech about…well… about nothing really. €4b just to make things nice a complete looking ay? Can’t have a C road? No, it has to be a full ring. It look good on a map. humm… are you sure about that :rolleyes:

And yet there is not a single mention about public transport. Do you not think that spending that same €4b on public transport won’t do a better job. You don’t think a DART out to Kildare town and Drogheda won’t help to ease congestion.

Irish Rail wants to do this but the Government cheapskate this plan under Transport 21 and only went as far as Balbriggan on the Drogheda line and as far as Hazlehatch on the Kildare line saving themselves around €300m in not doing so.

I know a great way to ease traffic congestion around Dublin, Why not build more roads to encourage more cars to use them. Heaven forbid providing an alternative to the car which might mean less cars on the road and therefore less congestion on the existing roads. 😎

I don’t think Drogheda is suitable for the DART really – it’s too far out. If it had the DART, trains would be forced to stop at every station into Connolly, leading to slow travel times. I think a better option would be DART to Balbriggan, with an extra express track (or, ideally 4 tracks) to Howth junction. This would allow express Drogheda services to the city, that could skip all the stops between Howth Junction and Connolly, without impacting the DART.

Eventually, along with Metro North, I think Irish Rail should aim for separate, dedicated DART and intercity tracks, between Connolly and Donabate, with a spur to the airport.

I do agree that Irish Rail are making a complete balls of the Dublin Commuter services – they could be so much better with an improved timetable, integrated ticketing and good customer service.