The Spike
- This topic has 979 replies, 111 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Sue,
Thanks, you’ve given me the opportunity to suggest that you all pay a visit to this fine site.
ps I agree, it would be great if the Spire won.
I agree with Sue that Ireland has had enough resources to build the spike as a stand alone project, in my opinion it has had these resources for at least a decade.
It is completely stupid that the spike is used as a stick to beat government with anytime a particular interest group or idiot feels that another subject area is underfunded. 😡
Focus & Simon should get more government cash for sure but there is a rationale enough to do this without cutting the urban renewal budget, ironically the places where most homeless people hang out.
The spike will pay for itself by contributing along with other improvements to reverse the decline in O’Connell St, therebye safegaurding the rates base. 😉
I agree with Sue here, the Spire is the best thing to have happened in Dublin since the Central bank, Dame street.
As someone who walks through the city centre everyday, I’m all too well aware of the amount of homeless on the streets – passing the same people in their same places every, as well as newcomers, you really become aware of the contrast between so much wealth and poverty, esp at Christmas, and on freezing or wet days when rushing to get inside and get warm, passing by people who have to spend the whole day under blankets.
But as others say, the improvement of the urban environment, or once in a lifetime projects like the Spire should not be used to hold up a flame for the disadvantaged in society. This is not where public monies are disappearing. It is primarily an issue of inadequate distribution of wealth on a much larger scale. The recent flagging of possible further tax cuts as a result of an upturn in the economy says it all.
I think it should be realised that the last year a concerted effort was made to remove homeless people and beggars from the area between O’Connell Street and Grafton Street. This is all part and parcel of the ‘Dublin: Make the City Yours’ campaign, which interestingly enough used the Spire as part of its logo by putting it instead of the ‘L’ in Dublin. I am a fan of the spire as a sculptural piece, but there is no doubt that it is part and parcel of the campaign to sanitize the main shopping district of the city and move any thing that does not fit in with its new image to outside this area.
There are three issues…
I almost never give to beggars, but I do regularly donate to the Simon. They have the expertise to allocate those moneys in the best way possible. Giving money to beggars is quite often simply going to the wrong people, and in the wrong way. So I don’t have a problem with moving beggars from an area. They simply are interfering with the proper running of society. HOWEVER, I would be completely in favour of them lobbying the government, etc, for more money…but in all honesty, who on earth thinks that a FF/PD government would care less about people with no vote (I will be presumptious and presume the majority don’t/can’t vote). I would be in favour of them protesting in front of Gov Buildings…but that will never happen due to the nature of the people involved, and their problems. The solution is either a progressive, ACTUALLY CARING ABOUT THEIR CITIZENS government, or campaiging by a homeless representative group.
Secondly, people seem to imagine that the 4million could have been spent on building homeless shelters. Generally there are plenty of beds and the problem lies with the homeless’s mental problems rather than the simplistic matter of a bed. A once-off lumpsum would be no use to this matter, and is better suited to a once-off item (such a building a sculpture, rejuvinating pride in their city for Dubliner’s). The continous flow of money required for an item such as providing adequate mental care (or similar items), is best served by taking it from a continious source…such as a 0.1% raise in tax (or as Graham Hickey points out, simply leaving taxes where they are, and using that money for the less wealthy, rather than putting more pay in already-fat wallets).
Thirdly, I pay taxes. I deserve to get something in return for that. I have both paid more than enough for BOTH a Spire and to see my more-unfortunate fellow citizens have their problems seen to. That’s what I pay taxes for…to get things done for MYSELF and for MY SOCIETY (which includes nice items directly for myself – like Spires…and which includes indirect items for myself – like helping less fortunate people)…not for governments funding racecourse clubhouses. It is the government’s incompentance, rather than the fault of the Spire, that is to blame.
Is there any mention of installing floodlighting to light up the whole structure (as this was in the original design)? Also, how has the sandblasting of the smooth median happened yet, if so, does it have much impact on the overall look of the area?
I don’t think the sandblasting has happened yet, the roadway still has the same texture and colour of the flanking pavements. It’s a shame the inset stone squares get so dirty on the road, the overall plaza pattern is somewhat diluted with the pavement squares being brighter and cleaner.
Presumably the Spire lighting will happen eventually – it’s too good an opportunity to miss. Many people have commented on it to me annoyed about it not being lit to date. It would further help turn O’Cll St into a nightime destination, rather than somewhere to avoid, let alone create a fantastic feature for the city at large.28/10/2004
Here’s an question that I don’t think has been asked before here that would be very interesting to hear peoples views on.
I know it’s difficult to establish a context, esp with so much water under the bridge both in political and conservation fields, but if Nelson’s Pillar was blown up last night, do you think it would be rebuilt?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with Nelson re-erected?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with someone/something else on top?
Would the stump be moved and the whole pillar re-erected with Nelson on top somewhere less prominent?
Would the stump be moved and preserved in the Phoenix Park or similar place as an important piece of heritage – allowing something like the Spike to go ahead on O’Cll St?
Perhaps this is a poll topic – assuming it hasn’t been done before, although weirdly I doubt it’s even been discussed before.
What do people think would happen, and what do they think should happen?I think that a poll is in order, it is hard to know what people would choose given a choice, I’m sure that very few would want Nelson to symbolise a new Ireland. I’d like to think they’d choose the Spike but I suspect a mass poll would deliver a copy of the pillar with Collins or Pearse on it.
Originally posted by Graham Hickey
28/10/2004Here’s an question that I don’t think has been asked before here that would be very interesting to hear peoples views on.
I know it’s difficult to establish a context, esp with so much water under the bridge both in political and conservation fields, but if Nelson’s Pillar was blown up last night, do you think it would be rebuilt?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with Nelson re-erected?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with someone/something else on top?
Would the stump be moved and the whole pillar re-erected with Nelson on top somewhere less prominent?
Would the stump be moved and preserved in the Phoenix Park or similar place as an important piece of heritage – allowing something like the Spike to go ahead on O’Cll St?
Perhaps this is a poll topic – assuming it hasn’t been done before, although weirdly I doubt it’s even been discussed before.
What do people think would happen, and what do they think should happen?What could be more fun would be a poll on who we would like to see dropped from a helicopter on to the top of the Spire! 😀
Originally posted by phil
What could be more fun would be a poll on who we would like to see dropped from a helicopter on to the top of the Spire! 😀The list of voting options would be too long, I think the original poll would be interesting my own choice would be Henry Joy McCracken.
Hello whoever might be reading this!
I’m a student at Trinity and I’m actually writting my thesis on the spire, researching the opinions of 3 groups – for want of a better term – of people: indigent people, academics and the general public. The final product wont be ready till March, 2005, but if anyone is interested, I’d be happy to keep you up-to-date regarding my research findings.
Bye for now,
JamesWhat is the central objective of the thesis?
@james_colhoun wrote:
Hello whoever might be reading this!
I’m a student at Trinity and I’m actually writting my thesis on the spire, researching the opinions of 3 groups – for want of a better term – of people: indigent people, academics and the general public. The final product wont be ready till March, 2005, but if anyone is interested, I’d be happy to keep you up-to-date regarding my research findings.
Bye for now,
JamesIndigent or indignant? When does a member of the general public become indigent? Maybe you should separate the general public from tourists? I think it’s become a strong symbol of dublin and I think it’s a great scale for the city as a whole, especially as you can appreciate it without having to get too close to O’Connell Street!
Is your thesis just public opinions? Does this qualify as original research these days? God, I should go back and do my doctorate…. I could just ask everyone on here and finish one in record quick time 😉
Seriously, unless you’re adding other information, it all sounds a little thin for a thesis…
Looking back through this thread…I’m absolutely horrified to hear that the Spire’s discolouration at the base is intentional! It makes the entire structure look cheap, tacky, industrial and unfinished.
Apparently the design on the base is based on a soil sample taken at some stage in the construction. Though I like that the base is reflective in places the current design is not working. At one stage a celtic design had been proposed…I dont know how well this would work either but anything would have been preferable to the current dirt inspired mess!
I think if more people were aware of this the general feeling would be the same.. This has to be put right!
For the most part I like the Spire. I just wish it didn’t look so bloody dirty all the time, It looks particularly awful in dull weather, but spectacular on a bright sunny day. Will someone please clean off those dirty brown streaks !
I wish they would light it up more effectively at night though.
I think the very fact that the monument was build only almost as proposed is telling. We compromised on every aspect of it (except the location i suppose) and ended up with a poor version of what should have been. The Jury were absolutely correct that this is a monument reflective of Ireland in Europe in the 21 st century.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
