The Spike
- This topic has 979 replies, 111 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 9 months ago by
rumpelstiltskin.
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AuthorPosts
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October 30, 2002 at 12:11 pm #705771
GrahamH
ParticipantMaking a documentary on O’ Connell Sreet, and had an interview with Anne Graham, Project Manager of the Street’s redevelopment, last week. She says the Spike is to be erected by means of a 160 (maybe 180, can’t remember which) metre crane, the base of which will stretch from Henry Street, down to the taxi rank at the Gresham, which is why those trees were chopped first. It is due to move on site (in theory) in the last week in November, and in Dungarvan, where the Spike is being assembled in 20 metre lengths, 24 hour shifts are being worked to get it finished & up by Christmas. It should only take a day, or maybe two to erect it. Some poor unfortunate has to dangle up to 120 metres in a basket, from the crane, to bolt the pieces together, should be an interesting sight! Also had the honour of holding a sample of the Spike, it was approx 1 foot square and must have weighed about 4 kilos! The sample looked stunning, and combined with the weight factor and the difficulties in rolling and tapering the massive amount of steel, we are definitely getting value for our measly 4 million.
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October 30, 2002 at 12:19 pm #721459
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI think I’ll camp out on O’Connell Street that weekend….
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October 30, 2002 at 12:26 pm #721460
Rory W
ParticipantGet fjp and his camera there too
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October 30, 2002 at 12:35 pm #721461
urbanisto
ParticipantDid Anne Graham say why its a taken so bloody long to get this far? Did she mention how long the rest of the street redesign will take?
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October 30, 2002 at 12:39 pm #721462
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by Rory W
Get fjp and his camera there tooWhy? are my photos not good enough? ๐
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October 30, 2002 at 11:14 pm #721463
fjp
ParticipantI want up that crane. I really do. Despite the fact that my Liberty Hall shots are causing me great pain to stitch together (and we’re making a movie too – god bless DV cams and iBooks).
Sounds great though. I must try and scab a better camera. And hats off to Paul, at least his photos are actually organised!!! (and he has a forum, and a proper search function, usefull accurate information, etc etc etc)
fjp
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October 31, 2002 at 8:43 am #721464
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterMust get up Liberty Hall again, my photos from the top were taken in 1995 so the city looks a little different.
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October 31, 2002 at 12:11 pm #721465
Rory W
ParticipantJeez, me and my big mouth
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October 31, 2002 at 12:42 pm #721466
GrahamH
ParticipantI was up in Liberty Hall last week as well, the city really hasn’t changed much at all, still as like bombed out Beruit as ever. Dull, drab concrete monstrosties dominating the skyline, the cherry on the cake of course being Hawkins House,like a beacon, standing for everything Stalinist. Whatever about it’s appearance from street level, from above it is truly ghastly.
Anne Graham says the delays to the spire are a result of the strike in the steel factory in France, and earlier on due to the lack of an EIS & the High Court etc.
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October 31, 2002 at 1:29 pm #721467
fjp
ParticipantPaul,
Are your photos from Liberty online? I wouldn’t mind a look…
fjp
(good old 1995)
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October 31, 2002 at 2:23 pm #721468
notjim
ParticipantGraham you obviously haven’t been to Beruit, the bombed out bits really are very bombed out, the restored bits are really lovely and the bits that weren’t affected are a warren.
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November 1, 2002 at 9:01 am #721469
GregF
ParticipantThat’s a point which architects don’t seem to consider of how buildings appearances age with time and how they will stand up to the weather and the elements.
Much more bright sexy shiny glass needed in contemporary buildings here…….hold the red brick and pebble dash. -
November 1, 2002 at 9:23 am #721470
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterYou’re right Greg in one regard, Irish towns and cities tend to long universally grim in the rain. Even the great buildings of Ireland with their stone facades look very foreboding in the rain. Sitting here this morning overlooking the Kings Inns and its so depressing looking in the rain. Its something to do with how the stonework goes almost black when wet. The brick squares of the georgian city are less depressing in the rain. There’s something about more modern buildings that they seem less gloomy on a wet day….
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November 1, 2002 at 12:49 pm #721471
GrahamH
Participant‘Bombed out Beruit’ is just a ‘Frank
Mc Donaldism’, a figure of speech. -
November 1, 2002 at 1:21 pm #721472
kefu
ParticipantI find Irish towns and cities look best in that sharp Autumnal/Wintry sun when it’s bright but still very shadowy. Partic the quays in Dublin.
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November 1, 2002 at 1:22 pm #721473
urbanisto
ParticipantI find they look best in that gorgeous summer sunshine we get on May 23!
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November 1, 2002 at 3:01 pm #721474
GregF
ParticipantBut does’nt everything look good in the Sunshine!
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November 1, 2002 at 3:01 pm #721475
GregF
Participant……..well bar an Irish Summer
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November 1, 2002 at 5:25 pm #721476
Anonymous
InactiveOOOh, no. All cities look best at night. That way, you can’t see the muck, the best bits are lit up, and the grim bits fade into the gloom.
The floodlit Spike will be a wonder. I’m assuming they are lighting it, now?
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November 4, 2002 at 9:17 am #721477
GregF
ParticipantMay not be able to light it now due to government cutbacks….will be lit for when it is first opened and for Xmas too but after that, darkness will reign upon the land…….may not have the money to replace the bulb.
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November 20, 2002 at 6:15 pm #721478
Paddyc
ParticipantAnyone know where i can get info on new spike for dublin. Currently doing a project on it and need all help i can get.
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November 20, 2002 at 6:32 pm #721479
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterHere is info from the architects:
http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike/index.htmlAlso search in our news archives here:
http://www.archeire.com/news/archives.cgi?f=keyword&keywords=spike -
November 21, 2002 at 1:27 pm #721480
Niall
ParticipantWhen is the date for this actually going up?
Any ideas?
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November 21, 2002 at 2:56 pm #721481
trace
ParticipantShould start next week. Completion is highly weather dependent – if the wind gets up, work is impossible, as assembly tolerances between ‘can’ sections are so tight.
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November 21, 2002 at 3:43 pm #721482
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI’m taking photographs every day from the same spot over the next few weeks as I’m only around the corner….
First one this morning
http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike_construction/index.html -
November 22, 2002 at 9:05 pm #721483
GrahamH
ParticipantSo am I. It’s brilliant that a crane is needed to construct the real crane!
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November 25, 2002 at 10:20 am #721484
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterSee the photograph of a section in yesterday’s Sunday Times?
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November 25, 2002 at 10:41 am #721485
-Donnacha-
ParticipantAccording to the Indo, the first section is going up ‘in the next few days’. In the Sunday Times pic it certainly looks as shiny as they promised – hope it doesn’t end up being obliterated by graffiti!
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November 25, 2002 at 1:59 pm #721486
Starch
Participantyeah graham…wierd that you need a crane to put up another crane……………bit like a crane reaction
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November 25, 2002 at 2:54 pm #721487
GrahamH
ParticipantBrilliant double page spread by Shane O’ Toole in the Culture section, the pieces were polished 24 hours a day for over a month, wow!
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November 25, 2002 at 5:17 pm #721488
Anonymous
InactiveMr. Ritchie is a prime candidate for Pseud’s Corner. Writing bad poetry and describing his work as sculpture. Red alert! Red alert!
Fortunately he is saved from himself by being a damn fine architect. I’ve yet to see a bad building by him. Let’s wait and see, but the Spire could well be magnificent.
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November 26, 2002 at 2:54 pm #721489
DavidF
ParticipantInteresting photos of the Spireรขโฌโขs foundation
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November 27, 2002 at 9:08 am #721490
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantI had a look down O’Connell St last night whilst waiting for a Nitelink, and the crane was already twice the height of the buildings. It looks really ominous in the dark, and I was well annoyed I didn’t have my camera.
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November 27, 2002 at 10:25 am #721491
fjp
ParticipantAnd it seems I can’t get anywhere near the place due to my current work location, and will probably end up with no useful photos at all.
hmm
fjp
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November 27, 2002 at 10:32 am #721492
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterfjp the pace of change is so slow you’d have to camp there…. I’m only living around the corner so its easy…
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November 27, 2002 at 11:42 am #721493
Niall
ParticipantJust a thought..
How have DubCC et al planned for the possibilities of someone raming the spike with a car/it being vandalised by grafitti (highly likely)/it being urinated on (even more likely!)?
It probably will have all three done to it in weeks..
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November 27, 2002 at 1:02 pm #721494
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by Andrew Duffy
I had a look down O’Connell St last night whilst waiting for a Nitelink, and the crane was already twice the height of the buildings. It looks really ominous in the dark, and I was well annoyed I didn’t have my camera.This is the crane from Parnell Street… thats the Carlton in the foreground
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November 27, 2002 at 1:12 pm #721495
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI’m not sure what I’m looking at here – there seems to be two cranes and they don’t look sturdy enough to go 120 metres-plus…
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November 27, 2002 at 1:15 pm #721496
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterits still on the ground… the main pivot is behind the builings in the bottom right corner….that will pull all the remainder off the ground…
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November 27, 2002 at 3:12 pm #721497
fjp
ParticipantHere’s a bunch more photos. I got excited by the idea of a frickin’ huge crane and hopped on a ten bus.
These are just in a directory, so there are no thumbnails. Click the image name and it loads.
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/
And that crane is HUGE.
fjp
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November 27, 2002 at 9:53 pm #721498
ro_G
Participantas cranes go it’s lovely. any crane-o-philes might also be tempted by a rather large erection beside The Square in Tallaght.
Forgive me if this question has been asked previously but when is the completion date on the Spire?
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November 28, 2002 at 10:53 am #721499
Niall
ParticipantLaunch date for unveiling of the Spike in Dublin still up in the air
By Kitty HollandNobody seems to know when the spire for Dublin’s O’Connell Street will be finally unveiled.
Already over a year behind schedule, we were told in April that it would be ready by September. Still, however, the capital is “spikeless”, and no one is quite sure when the “Monument of Light”, as it is officially known, will see some light.
According to the project engineer on the spire, Mr Michael O’Neill: “It is hard to predict when it will be finished.”
A spokeswoman for Dublin Bus said yesterday evening that the company had been advised by Dublin City Council that construction would begin this weekend, with an official unveiling planned for December 8th. However, a problem has arisen with embellishing the stainless steel exterior of the spire with the intended design.
The spire is currently in six sections at Radley Engineering in Dungarvan, Co Waterford. Mr O’Neill explained that the design, said to be “reflective of what’s happening to the rocks beneath O’Connell Street”, had to be shot-peened (bombarded with metal shot) on to the spire’s surface.
At the moment the engineers are endeavouring to shot-peen the design on to the first 10-metre-high section.
The engineers’ chosen method was to put a layer of masking material over the surface of the spire to protect the metal, explained Mr O’Neill. The metal is then heated to the optimum temperature for the process. However, when the engineers shoot the tiny balls of metal at the surface, to create the dulled-effect design, the masking material is slipping.
“We are going to spend the rest of the week cracking the problem,” said Mr O’Neill. The process is being supervised by architect Mr Robin Cross of Ian Ritchie architects in London.
Asked what would happen if the problem was not resolved by the end of the week, Mr O’Neill said it was important that the engineers took as long they needed.
“They are going to stay with it until they get it right,” he said. “The design element of the project was always going to be the hardest. The cutting, the welding, the bolting together is all very straightforward.
“It has to be perfect, as the sections have be transported to the site ready. There is no way they can go back to Waterford for small changes once they have been brought to Dublin.”
Gardaรยญ in Dungarvan said they had been given no notice of when the first two sections would leave the Radley Engineering works. According to Mr O’Neill, the sections would be escorted through each county by that county’s gardaรยญ on a tarpaulin-covered lorry. They would be brought to the outskirts of Dublin and held there until given clearance by the Dublin gardaรยญ for the final journey to O’Connell Street, said Mr O’Neill.
“It will probably be brought in sometime between midnight and 1.30 a.m. and tucked in behind the hoarding already up there in O’Connell Street.”
Mr O’Neill estimates that the entire spire will be erected over a period of 12 to 14 days once the final assembly begins.
He said there would be 10 to 15-minute traffic stoppages on O’Connell Street each morning and evening as the enormous crane, already in place, rises from and returns to its “sleeping” position in the morning. This process involved the crane swinging out over the street and could, said Mr O’Neill, be such a distraction to motorists as to be dangerous.
When finally in place, the Monument of Light will be 120 metres high – about the same height as RTรโฐ’s main transmission mast in Donnybrook.
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November 28, 2002 at 1:00 pm #721500
fjp
ParticipantThe RTE mast really puts it into perspective…
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November 28, 2002 at 3:26 pm #721501
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantI can see the crane from Harold’s Cross. It’s leaning down at the moment, so there’s no point in taking a photo.
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November 28, 2002 at 3:44 pm #721502
fjp
ParticipantI hadn’t thought of it, but I just ran upstairs to the top story of this Georgian house on Baggot Street. And there’s the crane, stooped but visible in the distance.
In a way the spike’s just going to be a giant thingy that says “Here is the middle of Dublin”. Nice…
fjp
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November 28, 2002 at 3:58 pm #721503
GregF
ParticipantSaw on the Irish Times letters page recently that some member of the general public suggested calling the Spike …..’An Cleadamh Solais’……the Sword of Light.
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November 28, 2002 at 5:58 pm #721504
kefu
ParticipantSword of Light was a suggestion by the National Graves Association, who preserve graves, monuments to those who died for Ireland. I thought it was a fittingly elegant name for an elegant monument.
PS – Does anyone know what the Eiffel Tower was called before they decided to honour Gustave Eiffel.
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November 28, 2002 at 6:41 pm #721505
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThe crane was fully extended for a while this afternoon, its back in the sleeping position now.
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November 29, 2002 at 9:42 am #721506
urbanisto
ParticipantHmm Sword of Light… sounds like a name it might have been given in 1966. I think we’ve had enough of all that, thank you.
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November 29, 2002 at 10:37 am #721507
Anonymous
InactiveKefu, it seems always to have been called the Eiffel tower, because it was Gustave Eiffel’s engineering company that came up with the idea.
It was for the World’s Fair of 1889, which commemorated the centenary of the French Revolution. So it is a monument.
More particularly it celebrated French science and industry. Names of scientists are engraved on it somewhere.
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November 29, 2002 at 11:19 am #721508
colinsky
Participantso, if I can see the crane from my balcony, does that mean I’ll likely be able to see the spike as well?
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November 29, 2002 at 12:32 pm #721509
fjp
ParticipantNo. The Spike will ocasionally go out of phase with daylight when viewed from certain parts of the city. This means that even if you can now see the crane, you might only see an inverted area of sky in the space that the spike will occupy.
This is similiar to the “white-out” effect sometimes experienced by pilots above snow filled landscapes.
๐
fjp
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November 29, 2002 at 1:44 pm #721510
PaulC
ParticipantActually I noticed the same effect with the Trump Tower in New York – not sure if any of you are familiar with it. But if you look up to the top of it – it reflects the sky perfectly and looks like a cage frame in the sky. An amazing effect
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November 29, 2002 at 4:15 pm #721511
fjp
ParticipantI actually just made that up, although the Trump thing does sounds cool. I will observe when I hopefully go there this summer.
fjp
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November 29, 2002 at 5:55 pm #721512
Anonymous
Inactivefjp, you are a wag and a seer and possibly a reincarnation of Flann O’Brien. Out of phase with daylight? Inverted area of sky? Such absurdist sentiments deserve to be true.
Weird but true fact: shortly after the completion of the Eiffel Tower, optically strange climatic conditions meant that an inverted image of the tower appeared in the misty skies above it.
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December 4, 2002 at 2:48 pm #721513
mite
Participantcan anyone tell me what stage it’s at now? ok, perhaps i’m a little impatient… i’m not in ireland so i have been following progress on archeire and am looking forward to seeing it at christmas… Is the crane completely up? have they started on the actual spike yet? can we see anything at all?
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December 4, 2002 at 3:00 pm #721514
Paul Clerkin
Keymasternothing really… the wind is keeping the crane in the grounded position afaik
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December 4, 2002 at 3:07 pm #721515
-Donnacha-
ParticipantIs that all that’s delaying it or are they still having problems with the details in Dungarvan?
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December 5, 2002 at 1:30 pm #721516
SeAnC
ParticipantWhat is the height difference between the
poolbeg towers in ringsend and the sword of
light (or whatever they are calling it!).
I presume the spike is smaller? -
December 5, 2002 at 1:36 pm #721517
DavidF
ParticipantAccording to http://www.esb.ie the chimney stacks are 680ft (207m) I think the spire will be 120m
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December 5, 2002 at 2:01 pm #721518
JackHack
ParticipantWith all the talk of the height of the spike, do you not feel we’re slipping into the mentality that bigger is better and that’s what counts.
I’d rather not know any of the statistics about the spike at all and just take it as I see it. -
December 5, 2002 at 2:06 pm #721519
DavidF
ParticipantIs there any movement down at the site these days?
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December 5, 2002 at 2:13 pm #721520
SeAnC
ParticipantIts just that I drive into town every day from swords and I can see the poolbeg towers a few times on the way (weather permitting). so I was wondering if I will be able to see the spire.
I am looking forward to seeing it up. I think it will look brilliant and will add to the city despite what most Dubliners are saying. But most people are up for a good moan these days given half a chance. They have answers and an enlightened opinion on everything!
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December 5, 2002 at 7:16 pm #721521
-Donnacha-
ParticipantActually, I think bigger is better when it comes to building a monument that’s for the whole city.
The more visible it is from afar, the more different contexts you can see it in.
Like the Eiffel tower, that slips in and out of view all over the city, contsantly reminding you that you are in Paris.
The World Trade Centre was an even better example, creating a sense of place as it rose up, sometimes unexpectedly, in the distance from within the different boroughs.
And tall strutures help you find your way around.
OK, I admit it, I just want to be able to see it from my flat… -
December 6, 2002 at 9:20 am #721522
GregF
ParticipantI agree. Tall and notable structures stratigically placed add a sense of easily finding locations within a city. They also add variation to the skyline.
Dubin of old had this too in the form of the church spires and domes stretching into the sky. Somehow this concept has been lost today with our planners, making for a horizontal and rather drab city. -
December 6, 2002 at 9:48 am #721523
SeAnC
Participantwho knows maybe people will say it is’nt tall enough in years to come!
I was impressed with canary warff in london. I was staying in southgate which is north of london about six miles or something and you could see the red light on top of the building very clearly at night. It gave a good sense of where the centre of london was in relation to were i was staying. maybe the spike will do the same? -
December 9, 2002 at 1:00 pm #721524
Niall
ParticipantCould anyone post the Irish Times article from this morning re: Friday the 13th and the Spire? The full version without the damn login.
Thanks
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December 9, 2002 at 1:06 pm #721525
ro_G
Participanton a similar note, will the Spire have a red flashing light on top, to ensure the odd low flying helicopter does not puncture itself on it?
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December 9, 2002 at 1:29 pm #721526
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterYes the top 6 or 8 feet is a aircraft beacon and according to Shane O’Toole beautifully detailed. I have emailed Ian Ritchie architects re a photograph of it, but they haven’t responded.
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December 10, 2002 at 10:30 am #721527
GrahamH
ParticipantIn relation to the Spire, I know its a bit late at this stage, but in the whole debate surrounding the structure at the beginning, not once was the major question of the complete lack of need for any structure or focal point in O’ Connell Street raised. The idea that the street has had an empty void at its centre for the past four decades, after the removal of Nelson’s Pillar, is ludicrous. The whole effect of the street relies in its continuity, its streamlined, ‘stretching into the distance’ effect.
Nelson’s Pillar was a ghastly stout Doric pillar, perched on top of an unadorned chunky granite block, the size of a semi-d, (this coming from a person renouned for favouring all things classical). But as always, the rose- tinted spectical wearing sentimentalists won over (albeit 40 years later), and insisted upon a new monument. We should have grasped the opportunity to redevelop the street in a manner that accentuates its impressive, unbroken length and continuity, & ditched any plans for a monument. Saying that, if any structure was to go into O’Connell Street, the Spire is by far the one I would chose, it being the most elegant, refined, and dignified modern structure I have ever seen, a wonderful manifestation of classicisim, modernisim and fundamental good taste. A triumph of modern architecture.The Nine O’ Clock News on Friday said the building begins this week and should be finished by next Friday (20th).
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December 10, 2002 at 10:44 am #721528
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantI will be away this weekend, so will probably miss the erection of the first couple of sections. I trust Paul and fjp will be there with their respective cameras?
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December 10, 2002 at 10:48 am #721529
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThe pillar may at first have been an unneccesary intrusion on the street, but once you establish a monument of that size on such a central site, it becomes part of the landscape, whether its aesthetics are questionable or not.
The pillar said, “this is the centre of Dublin”, and was treated as such by the people. It was before my time, but I’ve always seen the site as a gap just from seeing the old pictures and from my parents going on about it.
By comparison, I don’t think anyone could call Liberty Hall good architecture either on its own merits or whether it’s right for its location, but Dublin wouldn’t be Dublin without it. -
December 10, 2002 at 1:11 pm #721530
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterYeah, except I’m flying to Chicago on Saturday afternoon.
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December 10, 2002 at 10:01 pm #721531
fjp
Participantjeez paul, lay it all on me then!!! ๐
Has anyone any idea of what time they’ll be kicking off at??
fjp
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December 10, 2002 at 11:14 pm #721532
ro_G
Participantnow fjp, the trick is to get the Spire all in one shot from a very close vantage point.
I suggest standing on increasing numbers of milk crates to taking pictures at different fjp elevations until you are at least at eye level with the top of the Spire and then stitching them together in photoshop when you get home.
Shots taken from Westmoreland or D’Olier Street will instantly be dismissed as the works of amateurs ๐ -
December 12, 2002 at 9:57 am #721533
DavidF
ParticipantLooks like there will be no start to the Spire tomorrow!
From today’s Irish Times….
Design difficulties delay Spire again
By Kitty HollandThe erection of the Spire in Dublin has been delayed again amid fears that it may end up looking like a barber’s pole.
Mr Michael O’Neill, project engineer, dismissed reports that assembly of the monument would begin on Friday.
“There won’t be any activity before the weekend,” he said. He hoped things would begin to happen next week. “But we’ve got to get the finish right first.”
Mr O’Neill said two weeks ago, amid problems with the application of a protective masking material, it was “hard to predict” when the Spire would be ready for shipping to Dublin.
The protective masking material, necessary while the design is being applied to the surface, has now been successfully applied.However, there is now a problem because of a lack of consistency in the design application.
When the tiny beads of metal are shot at the stainless steel surface to polish and embellish it, in an engineering process known as shot-peening, “the design is having a tendency to stripe”, said Mr O’Neill.
“It’s making the design look a bit like a barber’s pole,” he said. “It has to be a consistent finish and getting that right takes a bit of time.
“It is only time, though, and it has to be right. If we got it wrong, if it looks ugly, no one would forgive us.”
Asked what was causing the inconsistency, he said there were “a hundred-and-one permutations” of factors that could be causing it, including “the pressure of the application, the nozzles, the shroud around the nozzles”.
The Spire, which is under construction at Radley Engineering in Dungarvan, Co Waterford, is in six sections. The first 10-metre section will be the first to have the design shot-peened on to the surface.
Experts in shot-peening from the Metal Improvement Company in London have arrived in Waterford to help apply the design, said Mr O’Neill.
At present, engineers were practising the application on waste metal.
“Once we get it right and start applying it, it will be a matter of two or three days to complete the application.
“I would reckon we would have news by the end of the week, on when it’s ready to come up to Dublin.”
Gardaรยญ in Dungarvan say they still have not been given notice of when the first two sections will leave Radley Engineering works. According to Mr O’Neill, the sections will be escorted through each county by that county’s gardaรยญ on a tarpaulin-covered lorry.
They will be brought to the outskirts of Dublin and held there until given clearance by the Dublin gardaรยญ for the final journey to O’Connell Street, said Mr O’Neill.
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December 12, 2002 at 11:26 am #721534
Niall
ParticipantAnother cock up…. Can anything be done properly and on time in this bloddy country?This whole spike debacle has become a farce, to name one farce on a whole list of them, Stadium Ireland, NDP, Luas etc…..
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December 12, 2002 at 4:29 pm #721535
J. Seerski
ParticipantFYI:
The NAtional Development Plan Website is down since Nov. 11. for “maintenance” thus are all projects scrapped?!!!!
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December 12, 2002 at 4:38 pm #721536
J. Seerski
ParticipantYes, this country is the pits. No Spike, no stadium, and not to mention hospitals. I am REALLY angry.:mad: ๐ก ๐ก ๐ก
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December 12, 2002 at 5:00 pm #721537
Starch
Participantpresumably a lot of you work in construction……….hold ups like this happen all the time……as the guy in the article said, it has to be done right……..we can’t have waited this long just for a barber shop pole to errected
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December 12, 2002 at 5:18 pm #721538
Rory W
ParticipantAgreed, best to get it right rather than make a bags of it, we’ve wated 4 years a few days more wont be the end of the world.
“If a thing is worth doing its worth doing right” – I’ve always believed in this motto
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December 12, 2002 at 5:32 pm #721539
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThe Pole in the Hole, anyone?
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December 13, 2002 at 2:27 am #721540
Desmund
ParticipantLoyal orange lodge! Sorry, Laugh out loud!!
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December 13, 2002 at 2:29 am #721541
Desmund
ParticipantWhat aboot the Spear of Destiny?!?
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December 13, 2002 at 9:43 am #721542
ED209
ParticipantThe Stiffy by the Liffey is the official one, is it not?
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December 13, 2002 at 10:23 am #721543
fjp
ParticipantStiffy by the Liffey??? That’s just filthy…
Although perhaps that “pole in the hole” one was filthy as well…
Can’t we just go with the common or garden “spike” for now?? It’s less pretentious that the “spire”, and yet slightly respectful of what shall be the big shiney one.
And if we don’t take it seriously, who will???
fjp
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December 13, 2002 at 3:29 pm #721544
Rory W
ParticipantI look forward to when they add the Giant Olive to it, before dropping the whole thing into the world’s largest Martini! ;->
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December 13, 2002 at 3:43 pm #721545
-Donnacha-
ParticipantRespectful name for the Spike?
I think after three years of a delay, news that they’re making a hames of putting celtic stripes onto it in Waterford, and watching the country’s biggest crane languishing in what threatens to become a permanent building site on our main street, we’re entitled to take it less than seriously.
And ‘pole in the hole’ wasn’t meant to be rude. Honest. -
December 13, 2002 at 4:14 pm #721546
fjp
ParticipantPerhaps take the actual Spike seriously, but rectally purify any politicians responsible for delays with 120 metres of stainless pain…
Hurray – it’s filth day!!!
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December 13, 2002 at 5:11 pm #721547
RSJ
ParticipantOnly eleven more days to get your Christmas shot-peening done.
(I’m really, really sorry I said that)
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December 13, 2002 at 5:41 pm #721548
-Donnacha-
ParticipantTerrible, terrible joke. Tee hee.
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December 16, 2002 at 10:05 am #721549
DavidF
ParticipantThis just gets better and better….
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=57044094&p=57x448xx
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December 16, 2002 at 10:32 am #721550
colinsky
Participantat this rate, we’ll have the twin towers reconstructed before you manage to get your spike up.
(i suppose this old town needs some viagra).
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December 16, 2002 at 12:27 pm #721551
urbanisto
ParticipantOur politicians have to be the biggest pack of retards ever…
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December 16, 2002 at 2:34 pm #721552
Paddyc
Participantanyone know where design info for the spire such as wind loads may be available. need it 4 a project im doing at the moment.
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December 16, 2002 at 5:02 pm #721553
DavidF
ParticipantWill tomorrow see the first section in place!!
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December 16, 2002 at 5:57 pm #721554
fjp
Participantsu
weet -
December 17, 2002 at 9:00 am #721555
ew
ParticipantNo sign of it this morning…
Delays in packing it up meant it’s only got as far as Portlaois. First section (of 6?) should be here tomorrow morning. -
December 17, 2002 at 10:31 am #721556
-Donnacha-
ParticipantNews this morning quoted city council as saying it would go up ‘early in the New Year’.
Crane seems to be fully extended, but not visible from street level at Dorset Street… -
December 17, 2002 at 10:38 am #721557
LOB
ParticipantI think it’s “completed by1st or 2nd week in January”.
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December 17, 2002 at 10:45 am #721558
ew
ParticipantI heard that “the stump” will be there for christmas though.
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December 17, 2002 at 12:03 pm #721559
fjp
ParticipantHere’s the crane from the top floor of a Lower Baggot Street Georgian.
Don’t forget – this is from far away (and that’s why it looks so small).
I might try and nip down at lunch (state of apathy pending).
fjp
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December 17, 2002 at 1:06 pm #721560
dpower
ParticipantIs this a recent picture? Last I saw of the crane it was in an “A” shape. Is this the same crane extended? Just fascinated by cranes…..not very healthy really.
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December 17, 2002 at 1:10 pm #721561
dpower
ParticipantActually, if anybody knows the full construction process, (including crane particulars!) I would be interested in doing a flash animation to demonstrate the entire process.
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December 17, 2002 at 1:35 pm #721562
fjp
Participantthat’s the crane from about midday today (17th).
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December 17, 2002 at 3:27 pm #721563
fjp
ParticipantHere it is again up close:
You’ll see directory contents (my spike directory). Today’s files are crane-021217-1.jpg (and 2 and 3 as well)
fjp
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December 17, 2002 at 7:24 pm #721564
brunel
Participantnow THAT is a crane… must be costin’ ’em a fortune now that it will be sitting there doing nothing over the christmas…
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December 17, 2002 at 10:35 pm #721565
GrahamH
ParticipantBrilliant photo fjp, the Spike rising out of the Georgian city, reaching for the skies. Oh, I feel a tear coming on, if you will excuse me….
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December 17, 2002 at 11:39 pm #721566
Anonymous
Inactivetravelled up and down the M50 several times today, could easily see the crane, far higher than anything else on the city skyline (except for the poolbeg towers of course) heard too that the base would be up for christmas guess we’ll just have to wait and see !
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December 18, 2002 at 9:36 am #721567
Rory W
ParticipantFirst section is in O’Connell Street and should be up by this afternoon. Hooray
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December 18, 2002 at 10:12 am #721568
fjp
ParticipantCan the section be seen on O’Connell Street or it it hidden away already??? And for those who haven’t been down there in person, even the height of the crane creates a new precence on the street that’s very impressive, so the spike itself (wait for it sceptics) might actually be very good!!!!
If that section’s visible I might hop a ten again at lunch. I’d also be happy to upload anyone else’s photos onto the web for people to see (photos would remain their property and not be displayed on my site – just in a blank addressed directory).
fjp
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December 18, 2002 at 10:21 am #721569
GregF
ParticipantAye the section could be seen lying aside this morning ……..but covered in tarpaulin.
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December 18, 2002 at 10:26 am #721570
-Donnacha-
ParticipantHeard (!) the first section being lowered into place at around 9am on Gerry Ryan. Hopefully RTE TV was there to record the moment for posterity. Pity they had to choose rush hour for what should have been a real event – I live nearby, but had to be in work.
As for the cost of keeping the crane on site, the cost of the contract is apparently fixed. -
December 18, 2002 at 10:39 am #721571
DavidF
ParticipantThe first section is in place – the ‘Breaking News’ section of the Irish Times ( http://www.ireland.com ) have a picture available
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December 18, 2002 at 11:04 am #721572
lostcarpark
ParticipantPassed that way this morning, and the first section was vertical, but not yet in its slot. Shame I didn’t think to bring a digicam!
It’s only about as tall as the GPO so far, so you won’t see it unless you go down there.
Does anyone else think the crane would have been a better monument if they just left it there?
James
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December 18, 2002 at 12:52 pm #721573
dara
Participantheres a pic from this morning…
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December 18, 2002 at 1:35 pm #721574
CiaranO
ParticipantGetting quite excited about the SPike just now.
I am travelling into town to have a look in the next while, Id bring my digicam but for the fact that the battry takes three hours to charge to any decent level of usefulness!Im sure FJP or some other will take a decent photo anyhow!
Im sure that a lot of the cynics in Dublin will be won over by the sheer scale of the finished project and when the protective wrapping is removed it will be quite a sight, glimmering in the rare Dublin sunlight.
C.
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December 18, 2002 at 3:08 pm #721575
GrahamH
ParticipantI’m surprised so few of you came out to see it being positioned, I suppose some people have to work! There was a brilliant atmosphere there, with about 200 people watching on (199 being media!) The crane started lifting at 9.15, and it was vertical in about 10mins. It took until 10.10 for it to be in fully in position, when everyone cheered. I could see who I belive was the City Architect and friends, standing on the roof of Ann Summers, whilst cameramen were sitting 5 storeys up on window sills and cornices, clinging for dear life onto their 150,000euro Betacams! Other people were on rooftops, holding onto chimneys. I had to make do with ground level, my trusty SLR and videocamera
As said earlier, the first piece is just taller than the GPO’s pitched roof, and is wrapped in what looks like the worlds largest bin-liner. O’ Connell Street Project Manager Ann Graham was there and told me the next piece won’t be going up for quite a number of days. They are hoping to get 3 pieces up before Christmas and the remainder in the first few days of the New Year. -
December 18, 2002 at 3:14 pm #721576
fjp
ParticipantI would have been there, but honmestly didn’t know they were putting it up this morning. Of course, I never listen to any Irish radion or news stations, so perhaps I’m partyl to blame myself…
Anyhoo, there’s a bunch of fast shots added into my “spike” directory. They’re down the bottom, called spike-021218-XX” (seven shots – including “mad mary” dancing in her new location).
Quality’s a bit dodge, so apologies:
click here to see them, then just click the image name
fjp
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December 18, 2002 at 3:42 pm #721577
lostcarpark
ParticipantExcellent photos! Would you mind if I stole one for my website?
I notice (from the other side of town) that the crane seems to be lowered to its “kneeling” position again.
Anyone know when the next piece is arriving?
James
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December 18, 2002 at 5:14 pm #721578
ED209
ParticipantIan Ritchie on Today FM…….now
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December 19, 2002 at 9:53 am #721579
GregF
ParticipantI have to laugh ……read on the Irish Times today the comments of the Irish natives about the Spike………
Miss Helen Ryan from Edenderry says the funds could have been better spent on the homeless. Someone should tell her that that great mythological figure Jesus once said that the poor will always be with us ….believe me but I have first hand knowledge of the ‘dependancy’ …’everyone owes me’ culture that exist here in Ireland. She recommended something more suitable in it’s place like a statue of Eamonn De Valera one of Ireland’s greats.
Mr John Lawlor says the Spire never impressed him….he says it’s supposed to represent the country in the 21st century but he is not so sure.However……Ms Asta Kelly originally from Germany but living in Ireland for the last 30 years said the project was very daring and would be admired around the world. I think it is fantastic . It is a great piece of art.
Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system. -
December 19, 2002 at 10:19 am #721580
notjim
Participantits so thin, i never appreciated how thin it was going to be. wow. its going to be great.
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December 19, 2002 at 10:49 am #721581
lostcarpark
ParticipantI agree, it will look amazing when finished.
But my first choice would have been for something a bit like Nelson’s column at the bottom, but branching out into a flying saucer-like rotating restaurant at the top. Wouldn’t have been that hard to do, would it?
James
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December 19, 2002 at 11:11 am #721582
GrahamH
ParticipantI’m not quite as impressed with it’s height as I thought (considering the height of the crane), although i’ve been looking at the pictures and proposals so many times that I suppose I have become immune to amazement about its size. Still going to look great though.
The next piece should be positioned on/between Saturday and Monday.Paul Cunningham’s report on the Nine O’ Clock news was very hum-drum, not even a date for the next pieces, esp considering he was talking to everyone under the sun there yesterday. RTE’s typical neglect of reportage on our built surroundings.
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December 19, 2002 at 12:36 pm #721583
JackHack
ParticipantAn erection with a reflection, to be sure to be sure. Have they started making key rings & t-shirts of this yet or would Dublin City Council have some copyright on that? If they did the spike would probably be self financing, even profitable.
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December 19, 2002 at 12:39 pm #721584
lostcarpark
ParticipantAn excellent idea! You’d want to be careful about putting your keys in your pocket, though… could have painful consequences!
James
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December 19, 2002 at 3:49 pm #721585
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantI’m sure the Ann Summers shop nearby already sells some replicas.
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December 20, 2002 at 10:20 am #721586
GregF
ParticipantHee hee …….good one Andrew
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December 20, 2002 at 6:36 pm #721587
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI’m so looking forward to returning to see this. Interesting telling Canadians about the spike “and it has no purpose?” “no” “cooool”
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December 23, 2002 at 9:38 am #721588
ew
ParticipantThat’s the attitude!
See there’s 2 more sections arrived. One will be going up in the next couple of hours.
This is so cool, you’ll love it Paul.
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December 23, 2002 at 10:27 am #721589
fjp
ParticipantI’ll nip down at lunch again. Photos up by three.
fjp
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December 23, 2002 at 3:20 pm #721590
bigjoe
ParticipantOriginally posted by Andrew Duffy
I’m sure the Ann Summers shop nearby already sells some replicas.rofl. ๐
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December 23, 2002 at 5:03 pm #721591
fjp
ParticipantI’m a little late, but everyone in the office just went home – couldn’t get in.
For those who haven’t seen it – it’s frickin’ gorgeous (this section is not under plastic). The steel looks extremely “creamy”, and words like “silky” and “smoothacious” could also apply. What’s more, it looked good even on a typical crappy wet Irish afternoon (which is really something). Colour-wise it’s not what I expected. I thought it would be more of a typical stainless steel colour, but it gives a very different impression (due to size I suppose) that’s most impressive. It even matches the colour of the GPO stone – ie, it actually fits in very very nicely in every respect.
The new images in my spike directory (down the bottom) are fairly accurate in terms of colour, so it should give those far away folks an idea…
Or has everyone gone away for Christmas???
anyhoo, click here for another nineteen spike photos fresh from photoshop
And a Happy Christmas to Each and Every One of You.
fjp
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December 23, 2002 at 5:35 pm #721592
Desmund
ParticipantThanks fjp,
I look forward to seeing it “in the flesh” so to speak, when I get back to Dublin on 3rd Jan. Do you reckon it will be complete by then?
Happy Christmas to all
Des
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December 24, 2002 at 10:20 am #721593
lostcarpark
ParticipantI was down there yesterday, and I must say it looks good!
I don’t know where piece number 3 had got to by that stage, because I didn’t see the truck in the photos around at that stage.
It’s interesting that the two arrived together. I wonder why they aren’t able to get the next one up before Christmas.
James
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December 24, 2002 at 7:50 pm #721594
SeAnC
Participantwhere did u take the last picture from fjp. remiends me of prague when i departed from it on the train (surrounded by a ring of filthy flats)
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December 26, 2002 at 3:16 pm #721595
fjp
ParticipantI presume you mean this photo here.
It’s the view from Dundrum. A photo taken through binoculars (dodgy, but better than nothing). But yeah, Ballymun looks like its got the horizon covered, although this is very narrow angle of image.
fjp
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December 26, 2002 at 7:32 pm #721596
SeAnC
Participantcheers,
Very clever idea with the ole bi-noc-ulars btw. -
December 30, 2002 at 1:05 pm #721597
colinsky
Participantso, i’m aware of the light at the top, but am I correct in inferring that the spike will _not_ be flood-lit at night?
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December 30, 2002 at 3:50 pm #721598
lostcarpark
ParticipantIt will be lit from inside. The top third has perferations to let light out.
James
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December 30, 2002 at 6:22 pm #721599
Anonymous
Inactiveafaik the lower sections are to be gently light by floodlights mounted on surrounding buildings …
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December 31, 2002 at 12:00 am #721600
trace
Participant. . . and uplit from the chamber below, through a narrow gap left between the spire and its bronze base plate (afaik).
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December 31, 2002 at 11:06 am #721601
lostcarpark
ParticipantThat does sound cool, now. After all, the original name was to be the “Monument of Light”, so it figures.
I passed it yesterday evening, and it looked rather odd because the main source of light on it was the Christmas tree, which was all from one direction.
James
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January 1, 2003 at 8:20 pm #721602
Lugh
ParticipantDoesn’t anyone see that spending such a lot of money on what I call the junkies needle is wasteful.? The amount DCC has spent on clocks and cranes and this needle is astounding. !!!Think of the great ways that money could be spent. They seem to think the tourists will love this monument ..I think that they would love to see a city with no homeless even more!
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January 2, 2003 at 12:00 am #721603
pvdz
ParticipantI dont know why you feel so isolated there Lugh, there are thousands of people just like you who think that the ‘junkies needle’ is a waste of money.
as someone pointed out earlier, ‘the poor will always be with us’. It was that jesus guy who said that and i think you could do yourself and every other Joe Duffy listener in the country a favour by popping in to the new homeless persons unit on Gardner street with the entire spike budget and dispersing it among everyone in the line. Then walk around the streets and see how many people are sleeping rough! It will be exactly the same as previous nights. People are homeless for a reason, no amount of fast cash will fix the problem as it needs much more attention. We need to set aside consistent funding for problems like this, and even then the problem will not be solved, it is never ending.
However there is absolutely no reason to discontinue art and cultural pursuits as a result. They are also important (to other people obviously) and must also demand funds. We are human beings and need stimulation and challenge not just for rapid monetary gain. It is not merely our purpose to eat, shit and reproduce.
However if you do feel that this is the case, then may god bless you, there will always be a spot here in Fianna Fail for you!
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January 3, 2003 at 9:00 am #721604
GregF
ParticipantDon’t want to be a whinger but when I first saw the base of the Spike I was a bit disappointed that I could see the joins of the sections……however it it already a great focal point for the city……and it is not that bloody big either….the width and the height …(if it’s to equal the height of the crane that’s there). Sad to see the Cro Magnon Irish public on TV give out about it…………aka the dirty Dubs …… would they want to see Nelson back on his podium…. that great exponent of the once colonial British Empire…….I bet they would ….so as to go with their great support of Man U and Liverpool whilst they buy An Phoblacht on a Friday evening. Mixed up ignorant b******s.
I’m a Dub too, but I know my loyalities and what’s best for Dublin City, the Capital of Ireland. -
January 3, 2003 at 9:38 am #721605
urbanisto
ParticipantInteresting article in The Observer newspaper over the Christmas detailing the 10 ‘must see’ architectural events of 2003 among themt the unveiling of the Spire in mid-January. Its good to see that we can muster an event of international architectural prominence.
I also recieved a very detailed letter from the O’Connell St Project Manager outlining the schedule for the redevelopment of the street. The project is due to take place over three period: Henry St to Abbey Street in by Dec 2003, Abbey Street to O’Connell Bridge in 2004 and Henry Street to Parnell Street in 2005!! Don’t hold your breaths eh!
Interesting, I was walking down O’Connell Street over Christmas and could hear a guide bus giving commentary on the street. I imagine all those tourists thought they had got their moneys worth looking at the mess it is now! -
January 3, 2003 at 10:12 am #721606
ED209
ParticipantOriginally posted by GregF
Don’t want to be a whinger but when I first saw the base of the Spike I was a bit disappointed ……………I’m a Dub too, but I know my loyalities and what’s best for Dublin City, the Capital of Ireland.For crying out loud, calm down.
People for, people against, end of story, Dub, not Dub, so what?
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January 3, 2003 at 10:38 am #721607
GregF
ParticipantI think you’ve missed the point, by a long shot……and that is, those against the spire are a visually illiterate general public decrying proposals for the city when they know SFA about civic architecture. They’re criticisms are based on what limited art education they got in school, the oppinions of the public media aka the British tabloids and the Herald, and not forgetting the plight of the ‘homeless’ who could have had the 4 million cost funds instead…. so they say.
(Maybe all those concerned about the homeless could take one or two of them home so as to care for them and maybe McCreevy could put aside funding of E40 million anually or more for them. We would then see the publics pseudo christian attitude change.)
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January 3, 2003 at 11:01 am #721608
ED209
ParticipantWhat you are saying wreeks of snobbism. By the way, what is ‘Art Education’ ? Sounds like ‘brainwashing’ to me. All I want to say is that people are perfectly entitled to like or dislike what they choose, without being labelled a west Brit by someone who pretends to have superior ‘taste’.
I am in favour of the spike, I saw it last week, it is not as nice as I would have hoped, the fabrication is shoddy, but I am still in favour. What annoys me are people who see it is a crusade against Dubliners, usually, who are supposedly under ‘educated’.
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January 3, 2003 at 11:30 am #721609
GregF
ParticipantNo snobbism here mate….any snobbism that may exist is that held by the great unwashed against an artistic education. Such would appreciate Man U, Eastenders, more etc than a drive to improve their own civic environs. It’s strange how you fail to see such a predominant element of Irish society. As I have always said ask any of them to direct you to the National Gallery of Ireland and they would’nt have a clue where it is………yet they are to have a right to comment on things artistic.
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January 3, 2003 at 11:41 am #721610
fjp
Participantthe “snob” word is dangerous (and most forget that it works both ways – up and down).
compare architecture to music if in doubt. would you really want someone passing judgement on a record if they never listened to any music, or only listened to what they heard on the late late show. ideally someone who criticises music should have as much knowledge about it as possible and an understanding of the history involved.
well the same goes for architecture. so the point is this: you wouldn’t trust your deaf granny’s opinion on your favourite band (as it would be ill-informed), and there are people out there who shouldn’t be trusted on architecture.
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January 3, 2003 at 12:16 pm #721611
ED209
ParticipantOriginally posted by GregF
No snobbism here mate………….yet they are to have a right to comment on things artistic.have a right? everyone has a right….
Besides if a ‘journalist’ sticks a microphone in someones face on Talbot street and asks: ‘what do you think about…….?’, are they supposed to answer: ‘Sorry i have no right to comment, I never went to art school, and I only got six months into architecture at UCD but i gave it up as I had to earn some money instead.’
FFS
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January 3, 2003 at 12:25 pm #721612
ro_G
ParticipantGetting very far off topic here lads, but lets just say there are two generalised opinions, 1) those of closed circle professionals, who generally do not publish outside their own field – e.g. this website is aimed at architects, designers and those with interests about reading in depth about issues from informed people. and 2) the general populace, who by their very nature do not have the search time, consciousness or sometimes, education, to find informed comments or contribute to debates about such matters.
These two sets of people may not overlap and may not communicate … it does not mean one or the other is wrong, stupid, overeducated, or that horrible phrase, unwashed, but what will happen is that over time the monument will either endear itself to the populace or revile them to the point of it being removed.
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January 3, 2003 at 12:31 pm #721613
ED209
Participanthere here, I apologise if that got a bit strong, and all that I would say to close is that, in my opinion, this idea of a closed cell of professionals who consider the public to be uncapable of appreciation, not everyone can go to art school, does no favours for the discipline and serves to further distance architects and the like from the public domain.
I rest my case.
Ps I am an architect…….
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January 3, 2003 at 12:32 pm #721614
GregF
ParticipantLook…… jesus!…… ..what is the problem ………no body owes any body anything……… much to the ethos that prevails here in Ireland ……..Whether you are rich or poor…..you can still take a trip along to your local public library and enlightened you little mind to the delights of the knowledge that is known to mankind……whether it be Mills and Boon your preference…..or Plato’s Republic ……or Puccini or Tom Jones or Bernini’s Baroque Sculpture, or Zuggerats and Ancient building….or Stir Fry Cookery or Gardening Today………etc, etc ……it is all there for the general public to learn. I made great use of the ‘Libo’ when I was long enough unemployed in the impoverished starving eighties and I am not from an academic background.
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January 3, 2003 at 12:35 pm #721615
fjp
ParticipantI’d like to remind “people” about that music comparison point I jsut amde, since I feel ED209 should re-examine it once more. This has got nothing to do with “rights”. it’s to do with some people understanding/appreciating things better than others.
I’m not an architect (just look around a lot), but I do think I get some of what’s going on. I just came back from London (again) and it’s full of modern things that would never be allowed in Dublin, but which are simply fantastic.
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January 3, 2003 at 12:42 pm #721616
alastair
ParticipantI’m a fan of the spike too (also a bit disappointed at the visibility of the panels, and hope they clean up the scuffs visible on the east side of it), but the notion that the great unwashed shouldn’t comment on a public venture, paid for with their money, is both elitist and misguided.
You don’t have to be a health care manager to comment on the operation of tallaght or monaghan hospital. If your perception was that they were being mismanaged/underfunded you would have no problem with complaining. No-one is going to die from a lapse of judgement on a piece of civic art (unless the engineers get it wrong) but the same criteria apply. It’s a CIVIC project, and joe soap is as much the client as the next man.
Education and appreciation of art/design/architecture is something we have far too little of in this country, but I won’t be signing up to an elitist clique telling everbody else what is good for them, with no recourse. Romania anyone?
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January 3, 2003 at 12:48 pm #721617
GregF
ParticipantI’ve posted this already…..
I have to laugh ……read on the Irish Times today the comments of the Irish natives about the Spike………
Miss Helen Ryan from Edenderry says the funds could have been better spent on the homeless. Someone should tell her that that great mythological figure Jesus once said that the poor will always be with us ….believe me but I have first hand knowledge of the ‘dependancy’ …’everyone owes me’ culture that exist here in Ireland. She recommended something more suitable in it’s place like a statue of Eamonn De Valera one of Ireland’s greats. (ahem!)
Mr John Lawlor says the Spire never impressed him….he says it’s supposed to represent the country in the 21st century but he is not so sure.However……Ms Asta Kelly originally from Germany but living in Ireland for the last 30 years said the project was very daring and would be admired around the world. I think it is fantastic . It is a great piece of art.
Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system. -
January 3, 2003 at 1:09 pm #721618
alastair
ParticipantOriginally posted by GregF
Very obvious to see then that the Irish general public are thick when it comes to the visual arts and architecture…..that they are pessimistic and ignorant….. where as the German lady was more optimistic and open minded.
Sums up Irish society and so much for our over rated education system.making any judgements based on three individuals selectively quoted by a journo is the height of folly.
I would imagine design education is far superior in germany though (ie they have some).
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January 3, 2003 at 1:09 pm #721619
urbanisto
ParticipantPersonally I think the comments of members of the public as reported in the media are very selective. On the day the second section went up TV3 (informative, broad-minded, cutting edge…yeah right) reported on the opinion of some ‘gas’ Dublin ‘characters’ who disagreed with the Junkies Needle. But there were no positive comments as I am sure there must be. The same with the newspapers, especially the populist leaning newspapers.
You have to be careful making a generalised observation when the source is selective news stories.
Anyway as I keep telling anyone I know…. its not even half complete yet! Its still has 4 or more sections to go up and the base to be fixed and the wrapping to come off…
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January 3, 2003 at 1:43 pm #721620
-Donnacha-
ParticipantOf course everyone has a right to their opinion, irrespective of education. But in a rational society, you have to give greater weight to better- informed opinions.
The vox pops have certainly not been selective – I was down there when the second bit was going up and everyone was commenting as they passed – ‘stupid’, ‘what’s it for’, ‘waste of money’, ‘the state of it’, etc. At one point, they were practically queuing up to share their pearls of wisdom with the TV cameras.
If everything was a popularity contest decided by public consent, youรขโฌโขd never get anything daring or innovative built. The public has to take some of the blame for the way Ireland looks today.
The reason our cities are ruined with space-wasting semi-Ds and countryside covered in ugly bungalows is because that is where the housing market has driven architecture.
Thatรขโฌโขs how the people want to live and thatรขโฌโขs what your รขโฌหman in the streetรขโฌโข thinks is good design.
Yes, the Spike is being built with public money, but at some stage, you have to let those whose job it is to run the city to make the tough decisions.
I think the vox pops weรขโฌโขve seen on the Spike show the depth of ignorance in Irish public opinion on art and architecture. The two main objections seem to be:
-Whatรขโฌโขs it for? It doesnรขโฌโขt do anything.
-Why couldnรขโฌโขt the money be given to the homeless?
Well, the national gallery is full of stuff that doesnรขโฌโขt do anything, why donรขโฌโขt we throw it all out and fill it with useful things like buckets and engines and hammers?
And then thereรขโฌโขs this illsuion that thereรขโฌโขs a central Art or Homeless fund that denies a poor person food and shelter for every non-essential public project.
Nothing else in Ireland that gets public funding is attacked for taking from the homeless in the same way. All because it doesnรขโฌโขt รขโฌหdoรขโฌโข anything.
If you take the moral argument to its conclusion, the Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal would never have been built – useless monuments in countries full of poverty.
I don’t care where they went to school, but I think most people in this country don’t care much about their built environment. So I’m not paying much attention to the vox pops. -
January 3, 2003 at 2:07 pm #721621
alastair
ParticipantOriginally posted by AndrewP
Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, irrespective of education. But in a rational society, you have to give greater weight to better- informed opinions.
…
If you take the moral argument to its conclusion, the Eiffel Tower or Taj Mahal would never have been built – useless monuments in countries full of poverty.
I don’t care where they went to school, but I think most people in this country don’t care much about their built environment. So I’m not paying much attention to the vox pops.I’d agree with most of your points but…
This isn’t a ‘rational society’ issue. It’s about art (to a greater or lesser degree), and art has little to do with rationality. The role of civic art is fraught with uncertainties and conflict, but it does seem to be about dialogue, and shouldn’t be defined solely by an elite of any kind.
The Eiffel tower was built with a useful purpose in mind; the proclaimation of France as a world leading empire with science and technology to rival the best. It may not have ‘done’ anything, but it’s significance as a standard was obvious to all. The Taj Mahal wasn’t a civic project (and had a defined purpose, just like the pryamids), so it doesn’t really equate.
When you spend public monies on any project without ‘practical’ benefit you are bound to get a lot of dissent. Personally I think that the public cost/social return equation for the spike is probably better than Abbotstown (If it had happened, and certainly better than the money spent for the nothing we did get). I wouldn’t read any sort of antipithy towards progressive architecture into it (hmmm. on second thoughts).
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January 3, 2003 at 4:17 pm #721622
-Donnacha-
ParticipantDon’t you think the Spike is trying to say something about Ireland the same way the Eiffel Tower was saying something about France?
Even if it’s just that we have (had!) a lot of money and we can afford big shiny monuments… -
January 3, 2003 at 4:24 pm #721623
CiaranO
Participanti agree with AndrewP here and believe that more people than is outward;ly obvious think the spire will be an attractive addition to the city.
All of my friends think this is a good thing fo the city and are excited about it and they are made up of DUbs and others.
Here is the link to the Guardian’s must-see openings of 2003; http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,865649,00.htmlIm sure more people will think good of it when it is unveiled and they realise it is something to be proud of.
C -
January 4, 2003 at 5:12 am #721624
EoinN
ParticipantI myself am not an architect, nor from Dublin ( I’m a culchie) , but:
Check out – if you are registered – the Irish Times feedback forum from a few days ago. The vote was 50/50 in favor of the Spire and the comments were even more skewed in favor – the most orthodox ( What about the homeless? ) comments being the least articulate.As an aside : I traveled on 2 bus tours in cities last year : one in New York , the other in Dublin.
The Dublin tour-guide was full of disgust for anything that was built by the Irish since independence. He was full of self demeaning anti-Irish remarks ( i.e. “pubs and Churches – Sums us up doesn’t it!”) and loved only the architecture built by the British or Norman.
The New Yorker was full of verve , joy and love of his home town and discussed animatedly the plans for the World Trade center site. He was, if anything, more working class than the Irish guy ( I detected a D4 accent there).
It is pretty remarkable what little culture we have produced as a nation since independence. And so little pride. Of course we have produced some literary culture – but that can’t be considered the culture of the State, or people : it is private culture ( I can imagine some witless luvvie stumbling upon James Joyce though, and asking him if he was going to continue work on that incomprehensible book or go help the homeless. [shrill voice] “What use is your book. What does it do?!!!”).
Architecture is primarily – these days – the art of the State, or mostly sanctioned by the State, and thus is the real expression of the people in a democracy, and we have produced so little of it.
This despite the fact that Dublin/Ireland is one of the richest places per capita in the world : and thus in the history of the world. Look at what (a much poorer) Athens produced in its heyday.
All rich cultures and generations leave something behind. Some art. Even tribal societies. We leave behind semi-detached houses stretching to infinity.
Sums us up, doesn’t it?As an aside: tourists visit places for architecture, climate, situation and culture , among others, and not because of the absence of homeless people. San Francisco has more homeless than Fargo, for instance; And many more tourists.
Further, the city spent $400 million on homeless people this last year. The transient population trends at about 4,000 at any one time; so that is $100,000 each.Lots more expensive than the spire: and didn’t solve the problem.
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January 4, 2003 at 2:21 pm #721625
alastair
ParticipantOriginally posted by EoinN
San Francisco has more homeless than Fargo, for instance; And many more tourists.
Further, the city spent $400 million on homeless people this last year. The transient population trends at about 4,000 at any one time; so that is $100,000 each.Lots more expensive than the spire: and didn’t solve the problem.
completely off topic, but that’s complete nonsense (of the sort propagated by the bill o’reillys and rush limbaughs of this world)
There are no reliable figures for the homeless population of SF, but it’s in the 5,500 – 6,000 bracket, and the budget allocated to dealing with the problem in SF stood at around $30 million in 2000
(see http://www.sfbg.com/News/34/28/other.html )and I don’t think anyone was suggesting pitting tourism v homelessness. The issue was where is the right area to spend taxes.
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January 4, 2003 at 4:58 pm #721626
CiaranO
Participanttrying to be a devil’s advocate here, lets see if we can get an answer.
Can the spire’s spending be justified in the light of social standards in Dublin?
C.
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January 4, 2003 at 6:01 pm #721627
J. Seerski
ParticipantLook – no project is safe if we judge it on the basis of costs vs what else we could spend it on. The Spire is really going to change O’Connell Street – already, incomplete, it nonetheless has renewed interest in a street that has been neglected for too long. If the Spike achieves little else than the rejuvination of O’Connelle Street, then it is priceless. ๐
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January 4, 2003 at 6:13 pm #721628
CiaranO
Participantcheers for the answer at least,
I dlike to hear more opinions on this matter though.But i do agree with the attention and rejuvenation point, this too is impossible really to quantify thereby it will not be seen by many in the public as a justifiable reason.
C.
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January 5, 2003 at 9:29 am #721629
Lugh
ParticipantWhen I first saw the design for the Junkies Needle I thought how little imagination was used in the design.Who is the lady in the corporation who judged the contest and didn’t even see fit to select an Irish winner? Surely It won’t stand out as one of the greatest eye catching designs of modern man. It’s just a needle after all. A child could have come up with that idea. I’d have enjoyed seeing a tasteful , intelligent and maybe more aesthetically pleasing piece rather than a pile of expensive metal turned into a mere needle. !!!
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January 5, 2003 at 1:11 pm #721630
alastair
Participantany more cliches you care to roll out?
an irish entry didn’t win because they weren’t as good. the best of the bunch was chosen (just like every other fair competition). Obviously it’s a subjective decision, but spare me the need to throw up second rate irish options.
You don’t like needles? Fair enough. It’s a simple concept/structure, but theres no requirement to complicate a concept for complexity’s sake. By your criteria we should have some baroque contraption that defies simple reproduction. Those Mies buildings are a bit simple too aren’t they? A child of three could draft them up no bother.
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January 5, 2003 at 5:53 pm #721631
RSJ
ParticipantIf nothing was ever done just for the joy of it, but only for strictly-defined needs at lowest possible cost, then:
No Taj Mahal
No Sydney Opera House
No Durham Cathedral
No Guggenheim
No St. Mark’s Campanile, Venice
No Alhambra(add your own here)
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January 5, 2003 at 10:13 pm #721632
Niall
ParticipantI agree, stop all this navel-gazing. I thing it’s a bold move putting the spike up, to be commended. Just, a pity it took so long…….
If anything the huge waste of resources and the work practices of the public services should be examined and not a structure and development to clean up the main street of our capital city…
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January 6, 2003 at 9:17 am #721633
GregF
ParticipantI always hark on about this….and will repeat myself again……but in our short lived boom, whilst we wallowed in millions and a good life was to be there to be grasped by all, we had many new landmarkish developments proposed for Dublin city centre. Prominent among them being the Spire which is near completion, 2 bridges by reknowned architect Calatrava ….one of which is near completion, the ill-fated National Conference Centre designed by reknowned Irish/American architect Kevin Roche which would have enlivened the now emerging boring docklands, a National Stadium and sports campus proposed by the government but shot down, the port tunnel and the LUAS to relieve traffic congestion now under construction and a Metro for the city centre which is not.
All major projects that should have been built…..to add significantly to the capital city. A fool would have objected to the lot and such is the great loss to our still ‘provincial British city’. -
January 6, 2003 at 10:43 am #721634
Rory W
ParticipantAnother section going up today (6th Jan) really looking forward to seeing it – however be warned!!! That Ukrainian emigre artist woman (the one who wanted the reconstruction of the Nelson Pillar with a giant golden globe on top) is posing as a journalist and doing vox-pops of her own. If she doesn’t like what you say (i.e. if you actually like the Spire) she gets into a shouting match with you saying “you know nothing about art….” sore loser or just plain nuts?
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January 6, 2003 at 10:46 am #721635
Anonymous
Inactivejust plain nuts Rory ๐
” The third section of the Dublin Spire will be erected later this week. It had been planned to go up today. “
– from RTE, don’t know what the story is, the crane is not up yet anyway …
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January 6, 2003 at 11:40 am #721636
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterany idea of time?…
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January 6, 2003 at 4:30 pm #721637
Trich1
ParticipantHello, I’m new to the site and forum! I just wanted to let you all know – if you weren’t aware already – that there’s a good webcam for watching The Spike’s installation progress:
http://193.120.149.58/camera03.jpg.The webcam is situated at the top of O’Connell street, close to the Parnell statue, facing down O’Connell street.
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January 6, 2003 at 4:34 pm #721638
Trich1
ParticipantOops that link doesn’t work for some reason…..try this one: http://www.dublincity.ie/traffic/camera/OConnell_Street_Parnell_Street.htm
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January 7, 2003 at 1:10 am #721639
Anonymous
Inactiveyep, that one is from dublin city council’s traffic website at:
[url=http://]www.dublincity.ie/traffic/traff.htm[/url]
It’s also visible from another webcam run by camvista (the best webcam of dublin) most of you are probably familiar with it already, it runs through several shots every minute & the spike is visible in one of them …
Wrote and asked them to divert the camera towards the spike or to ask if they would consider setting up a temporary cam to cover it (they do a lot of that kind of thing) but no reply … anyway here’s the link[url=http://]www.camvista.com/ireland/dublin/liffey.php3[/url]
okay doesn’t look like they’re working so just type them in manually & you’ll get there …
:confused: -
January 7, 2003 at 8:56 am #721640
PaulC
Participant -
January 7, 2003 at 9:49 am #721641
Niall
ParticipantOn a rather bizzare note if you look at the camera from the other end, i.e. O’Connnell bridge is the thing aligned properly or is the traffic Island the one out of place?
Just a thought, here is the link……
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January 7, 2003 at 1:01 pm #721642
fjp
Participantyou want bizarre??? slight boredom on my part presents the strangest view yet:
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January 7, 2003 at 4:18 pm #721643
CiaranO
Participantis that it with the third section up now?? seems a lot higher than last night!
C.
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January 7, 2003 at 4:59 pm #721644
fjp
Participantum – that was me playing with photoshop….
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January 7, 2003 at 5:43 pm #721645
GregF
ParticipantHee hee ……good one………
Wow, that’s high ain’t it ……..god we’ll all get vertigo and nose bleeds at the height of the thing as it goes up and up.
I was on the bus into work this morning and heard a couple, aka a South African chap and a Danish girl, talk very aloud about me native city saying that all the buildings were very low. They noted that stylish new tall glass building in Blanchardstown as we passed it and then commented jokingly on the Mickey Mouse pastiche 3 storey appartments in the vicinity. It was cringe inducing to think that we are generally a land of low aspiration midgets.
Up the Spike and up and up with it too. -
January 8, 2003 at 3:29 am #721646
CiaranO
Participanthaha well done FJP! Now that I look closer its not a bad job with the oul photoshop! BUt i should have known! I almost went up to O Connell street tonight too! Imagine my surprise! LOL
GregF,
you really do suffer from quite an inferiority complex dont you. I wrote a rather long response to one of your texts last night (re: still a provincial british city) and only thanx to the great enigma that this site is, it was erased. Not willing to waste anymore of my time, I think I will from here on ignore your rather self-depreciating toned posts, that are of the bimboesque quality that size really matters, and being of a general opinion that if it’s Irish it must be bad, or at best worthy of some condemnation. Of course Denmark, with its great taxes, and SOuth Africa with its friendly society would be much greater places to live in, of only for their 20+ storey buildings.
Oh woe is thee!C.
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January 8, 2003 at 8:33 am #721647
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by CiaranO
I wrote a rather long response to one of your texts last night (re: still a provincial british city) and only thanx to the great enigma that this site is, it was erased.I would just like to point out that we didn’t erase anything.
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January 8, 2003 at 8:50 am #721648
GregF
ParticipantKeep living in your little land of insignificance Ciaran O………and sure ‘everything will be grand’ won’t it.
‘Ye’ll never improve yourself if ye cannot first critisize yourself’…..now who said that, David Brent ye say?…….Buddha?……..or was it Roy Keane?……but I suppose people have different levels of standards and standards of levels.
Sorry for offending your patriotic sensibilities but it’s such sensibilities that has kept dear old Ireland backward for years Ciaran …..and it can be seen in the standard of architecture which is around you today, but that’s if you open your eyes. It is plain as the nose on your face.
‘Architecture is an outward reflection of a society, indeed it is a reflection of civilization itself’…..I think Plato said that or was it John Fitzgerald.A Spire, A Spire, Aspire.
Profound or Profane!
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January 8, 2003 at 1:51 pm #721649
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by Paul Clerkin
I would just like to point out that we didn’t erase anything.
no i accept that Paul, cheers I meant rather that it sometimes deosnt run smoothly this site, and having posted it, I got a duff page, and when i went back to the page on which i had typed it originally it was gone, and i could nto be bothered to repeat it!
GregF
Of course my world is insignificant. It is not the one you pervade. The one of ‘sure it’s all shite isn’t it’. the post colonial mind that once independence has been achieved tries to gain the upper hand by being like the previous oppressors. Your opinions that everyone in Dublin is just happy with everything no matter how bad it is may not be compleytely off the wall, but why continuously turn to the childish west brit rhetoric that its ‘cos were little old Ireland’. IF, and its a big IF, this is the case, surely YOU, are intent on changing things through your arhcitectural nous (are you an architect) or are you happy to have petty arguments online?
I am neither an architet nor an expert in urbn planning, but I do have an appreciation of good architecture and public buildings.
You seem to think that a simple improvement to Dublins architectural inadequacies would be some high-rise buildings. Of course, there have been thousands of minds that have designed skyscrapers for Dublin, but they obviously came to the wise conclusion that, correctly it would be frankly ridiculous to have one or two buildings over 150m in Dublin, with its low skyline. Perhaps you know better.
So architecture is an outward reflection of a society, indeed it is a reflection of civilization itself’
Well lets not start a ‘quotes’ battle as Im sure you understand I could find a quote to prove that the world is indeed flat.I will say however that there is already some great architecture in Ireland, although a lot of it is pre-1922 so I suppose you wouldnt count that would you. Is James Gandon not British enough for you either?
Self-criticism is always necessary of course, but poisonous self-loathing is not really the way to do it.
C.
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January 8, 2003 at 4:01 pm #721650
-Donnacha-
ParticipantOK, you two, take it outside. Can’t we all just get along?
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January 8, 2003 at 5:42 pm #721651
GregF
ParticipantO Ciaran……calm time will ye, jesus…..I think you’ve missed the point of what I overall imply….and thanks for the sarky ‘inferiority complex’ jibe too…. but maybe it is a reflection of the Irish nation itself.
I never used the term ‘West Brit’, but you yourself did and on several occasions. (Is that perhaps a reflection of a deep down inner feeling that you maintain. We are after all however a lot more British here in Ireland than we would like to admit as the British are far more European than they’d like to admit. History has dictated this of which we refuse to admit.)
I simply implied that some folk here are more entranced by the ongoings of the banalities of cross channel soaps and sporting events rather than taking an interest in their own built environment, yet they feel they have a right to critisize what in the long run may be better for their native city. (It is a free country too, people can do what they like, and why not)
Regarding the height and scale thing …..well if you look at the history of architecture it was always a competiveness that has produced great architecture, has’nt it………a competiveness and an urge to build bigger, build better, build more flamboyant…etc….etc….and it’s from this that we have a great history of great architecture to look upon today. From the times of the Egyptians, the Romans, The Renaissance, The Gothic, The Baroque, the 20th Century; whether it be Pyramids, Temples, Cathedrals Castles, Manor Houses, Parliaments, Social Housing for the masses……Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and so on …. there has always been a want to build better for the betterment of humanity…….but that is a bit lacking in the imagination of the Irish general public at times ……hence our middle of the road complacent surroundings, acres of houses and the urban sprawl, bad transport etc …etc…..etc….that we have in Ireland today…..Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Coming from an agrarian background too we don’t really have a great knack of urban living like our fellow Europeans…..do we.
It is what undercurrent ideology (what ever that maybe) that’s behind a society that produces the best of a society………hence at the end of the day some societies have a better quality of life and better outward trappings that go with it…(and that’s what matters….is’nt it)
You do realize that don’t you …………..but jesus…..why bother! -
January 8, 2003 at 6:05 pm #721652
fjp
Participanton a completely seperate point:
does anyone know when the next section is going up?
(surely someone’s got good inside info on schedule)fjp
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January 10, 2003 at 12:05 pm #721653
ew
ParticipantIs there a section going up now?
http://193.120.149.58/camera06.jpg -
January 10, 2003 at 12:12 pm #721654
Niall
ParticipantThis is all turning into a bore…
Can just see it now.. Tour guide to tourists..
Yeah, got permission in 1998 by the Council… suppossed to go up for the Millennium…High Court appeal. Minister gave permission for it after reading EIS in December 2000!!!!!!!!!!!
First started construction in 2002. Finally went up in 2004!I can see them all rolling around laughing… better still a look of disbelief on their faces…
Can anything be done on time in this country? The third piece has been sitting there for 3 weeks!!!!!!! What are they doing standing around staring at it?
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January 10, 2003 at 12:27 pm #721655
urbanisto
ParticipantAdverse weather conditions?
Extended public sector Christmas holidays?
Alarm clock didnt go off?
Broke a nail? -
January 10, 2003 at 3:10 pm #721656
-Donnacha-
ParticipantGive ’em a break. They’ve only been at it a few weeks and in fairness it looks really tricky and the weather has been crap.
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January 10, 2003 at 3:23 pm #721657
lostcarpark
ParticipantTrue, I imagine it’s not the sort of thing you want to do in high winds.
James
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January 10, 2003 at 4:19 pm #721658
kefu
ParticipantI agree. If it’s not finished until February or March, so what. At least, it will finally be up. It would have been up in the Millennium year except for the wackos and the planning laws. You can’t blame City Council for that.
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January 10, 2003 at 4:46 pm #721659
lostcarpark
ParticipantYeah. You could possibly argue that they should have known about the entironmental impact study. I don’t know enough about the legal situation to say whether this is normally required, or a special case was made because someone complained.
We’ve waited nearly three years, so what’s another month or so? It’s just we’re keen to see how it looks when it’s all lit up. Should be quite a sight!
James
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January 11, 2003 at 5:35 am #721660
CiaranO
ParticipantI agree totally, It has taken a while, but will most definitely be worth the wait when erceted fully.
Themoans are just another example of the many voices on this site that love nothing more than a good oul moan about the oul oirish.
Im sure theyre not delaying it on purpose, are they?
Ah sure we’ll leave it at two sections and the crane can be a permanent attraction, it’ll be grand…:D
C.
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January 11, 2003 at 4:02 pm #721661
GrahamH
ParticipantA couple of points, you may or may not have known.
In the original plans for the Spire, the surrounding pavement/base was to be hollowed out, lined with black Kilkenny marble, and filled with 40 litres of mercury!(under glass of course). It would have been spectacular, only it was considered unsafe, and the current cast bronze base was deemed more appropriate.
The height of the Spire, in relation to sea level, is actually lower than RTE’s mast in Donnybrook, even though its only 100m high, compared with the Spire’s 120m.
It will not be visible at all from Merrion Square, and will not be ‘noticable’ from Rathmines, or Heuston to the west. It will be clearly visible from Mountjoy Square to the north and the East Link Bridge to the west, as well as from Trinity.
A point that I havn’t heard made is that the Spire is going to remove forever, the longest vista in Ireland, and one of the longest in Europe, the Mary Street-Jervis Street-Henry Street-North Earl Street-Talbot Street axis, which is a kilometre in length, incredible for an urban area. Not that it is particularly spectacular or anything, especially considering the mess the Victorians made of it’s focal point, Connolly Station.
Henry Moore, Earl of Drogheda would not be amused.
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January 13, 2003 at 1:42 pm #721662
-Donnacha-
ParticipantIt may be a long streetscape, but it’s fairly unremarkable. And on a selfish note, it tended to remind you how far you had to walk to the shops in Henry Street when coming from Connolly!
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January 13, 2003 at 1:49 pm #721663
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantDorset St is as long (maybe longer) and as straight. Anyway, with the spire being only a couple of metres across the view from Connolly Station to toymaster on Mary St is hardly broken.
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January 13, 2003 at 1:52 pm #721664
J. Seerski
ParticipantWith vistas like that, who needs bad planners?!!
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January 13, 2003 at 3:01 pm #721665
Anonymous
Inactivepassed it this morning, 3 more sections are lying on the ground beside, maybe they’ll all go up in one day ? hard to know what they’re up to …
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January 13, 2003 at 3:13 pm #721666
Rory W
ParticipantThe vista
(a) was designed to terminate at Connolly – I’m assuming you are saying the Victorians ruined this by building the section of the loop-line bridge in front of this rather than the building itself which is quite fine
(b) would have been disrupted by the pillar 1806 – 1966
(c) the Georgian Mile (Leeson Street Bridge to Holles Street hospital is a much finer vista (although blighted somewhat by ESB HQ)
(d) Henry Moore Earl of Drogheda would have been more upset at the fact that Drogheda Street was ripped apart by Gardiner!Sorry to be a pedant but…
To the topic in hand – does anyone know then the next section is scheduled to go up – I assume it wont be this week given the expected windy weather?
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January 13, 2003 at 3:25 pm #721667
lostcarpark
ParticipantThere was definately supposed to be a piece going up last week, which I assume didn’t happen to the strong winds. One would hope that the remaining sections will go up fairly quickly when the wind dies down.
James
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January 13, 2003 at 4:08 pm #721668
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThe remaining sections of Dublin’s 120-metre Spire have been transported from the Radley Engineering plant in Dungarvan, County Waterford, to O’Connell Street in Dublin.
Two sections were bolted into place last month, but a plan to erect the third section before Christmas was not realised.
Now the three final sections of the six-piece Spire have been brought into the capital.
Engineers hope to complete construction very quickly, however high winds forecast for the coming days could lead to delays.
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January 13, 2003 at 4:28 pm #721669
J. Seerski
ParticipantYou should see last weeks Phoenix – it has a cartoon taking the…..out of the delay in erecting the Spike – very funny!
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January 13, 2003 at 6:17 pm #721670
J. Seerski
ParticipantFrom RTE:
“Two parts of the spire are already standing. A third piece was brought to O’Connell Street in December but it was not possible to put it up due to bad weather.”Eh, did we not have clear blue skies for most of the last two weeks, with little wind???!
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January 13, 2003 at 7:24 pm #721671
GrahamH
ParticipantPassed the Spire this morning, and I have to say I was very disappointed with the condition of the steel. It looked manky dirty with what appeared to be massive water-marks streaking down the sides, even though it was’nt wet. The amount of join lines is also very disappointing, when mentioned previously, I thought it was only referring to the joins of the 20m sections, but actually all of the factory joins are starkly evident, every few metres.
Saying that, from a distance, the glow of the morning light on the steel looked quite spectacular.With regard to Connolly Station, the ‘mess’ I referred to was the building itself. Whilst the Italinate tower is very beautiful, it has long been acknowledged as a very cumbersome, disproportionate, and poorly designed building. It’s Wicklow Granite is also of a poor quality. Anyway, a new vista is now being created with the Spire, which is possibly best, considering the existing one dosn’t work, due to the fall in levels. The Spire aptly steps in at the half-way mark, as the Pillar did.
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January 13, 2003 at 10:28 pm #721672
fjp
ParticipantI know what I’m doing at lunch tomorrow….
fjp
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January 14, 2003 at 8:50 am #721673
GregF
ParticipantI saw that the other three pieces have been delivered to the site and are lying on the ground awaiting hoisting into place…..now if only the winds would abate. Tis to be windy for the rest of the week. The shiney steel looked good however this morning in the semi dark as it glistened in the street light.
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January 14, 2003 at 2:59 pm #721674
fjp
ParticipantHurray!!! New spike photos for our far away friends!!!
click here for thirteen new shots (then scroll down)…
Points of interest include the interior photos (ending with “int”). They show some mechanical stuff, some electrical stuff, and (most amusingly) the interior ACCESS LADDER!!!
Now then – I have to to disagree with Graham’s comments on the surface finish. I think it looks fantastic, and will use once again words like “creamy” and “silky” to describe the way in which it reflects light. It’s a very interesting finish which looks totally surreal from even a short distance away. So I’m all for the current finish, and the attention to detail also seems withour fault (sorry).
fjp
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January 14, 2003 at 4:23 pm #721675
lostcarpark
ParticipantThanks again for the excellent photos. Did they let you onsite to take them?
I was down there last night when they were taking the covers off. I presume there will be no movement on lifting it into place until the wind levels are more reasonable.
The access ladder is fascinating. I was especially amused to see the spanner tied to the sructure. You wouldn’t want to get half way up and find, “damn, forgot the spanner.” Shouldn’t there be a bag of bolts too?
I like the finish. But it does turn black at night, except where there is a light to reflect (which around Christmas was the nearby christmas tree). It should look great when it’s lit from all around.
James
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January 14, 2003 at 4:55 pm #721676
Niall
ParticipantI liked the photo of all the guys standing around doing nothing, very impressive!
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January 14, 2003 at 5:35 pm #721677
ew
ParticipantFrom a distance (in dark) you only see the reflected light. Makes the whole thing appear even thinner.
Well done on the photos fjp
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January 14, 2003 at 5:47 pm #721678
ED209
Participantreally amazing photos, well done.
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January 14, 2003 at 7:07 pm #721679
Anonymous
Inactiverte news were quoting the city council tonight as saying that construction could be complete as early as thursday … it seems they plan to put all other sections up in one day once they get the weather for it.
Great photo’s fjp… did you notice if the very top section was there? would be good to get a shot cause you’d need some zoom lense once its up! -
January 14, 2003 at 7:09 pm #721680
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterYeah theyre mentioned a lull in the weather and working at 3am. Guess we wont be sleeping that night.
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January 14, 2003 at 8:49 pm #721681
fjp
ParticipantDidn’t see the top section, though I certainly looked for it. All photos were taken through the railings with no extra access privelages…
3am??? Hmm. Still though, cool if it just went up all of a sudden.
fjp
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January 14, 2003 at 10:41 pm #721682
Paul Clerkin
Keymasternot sure if i want to be on o’connell street at 3am friday morning brandishing cameras…. i like having cameras… i also like my face the way it is too ๐
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January 14, 2003 at 11:28 pm #721683
lostcarpark
ParticipantWas down there this evening, and there were definately only three pieces there (unless the fourth is really well hidden).
Wow, 3AM. Not tonight, I suspect. There was some breeze blowing!
James
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January 15, 2003 at 8:14 am #721684
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThird piece went up this morning at 6am… more pieces this morning… i’m off down there for the morning. If anyone is around, i’m the cold looking guy with the minolta camera bag.
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January 15, 2003 at 9:04 am #721685
Rory W
ParticipantWas down there at 8 – looking good, will head down again at lunchtime to see the 4th section hopefully in place.
Speaking of things appearing all of a sudden – the top section of the Crysler Building in New York appeared in 1 day and that surprised a lot of people!!!
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January 15, 2003 at 9:10 am #721686
ro_G
Participantheard it will all be up by 6pm tonight ?
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January 15, 2003 at 9:12 am #721687
Anonymous
Inactivethird section is up ! can finally see it from my house out in the sticks here in tallaght …
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January 15, 2003 at 9:13 am #721688
GregF
ParticipantHeard on the radio, aka the news, that the final 3 sections of the Spire are intended to go up by the end of the week…or even by tomorrow depending on the wind on the Beaufort scale. Let’s hope the winds abate and they do it, it will be historical for the city, the making of a new modern landmark for Dublin. Something for us all who are alive today to remember and tell our children.
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January 15, 2003 at 9:15 am #721689
Rory W
ParticipantGreg’s getting carried away…
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January 15, 2003 at 9:30 am #721690
Far Glynn
ParticipantNow thats never been known to happen has it! It looked great from Clontarf this morning with the morning sun shining on it. There are just one or two visible joins on the second section that take away from it a bit up close though!
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January 15, 2003 at 9:41 am #721691
lostcarpark
ParticipantWell, I stand corrected. I could see the crane from my apartment in Capel Street, so I went down there on my way to work. Looks great!
James
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January 15, 2003 at 10:26 am #721692
fjp
ParticipantJeez – I was going to look out the rear window of my gaff today and see if anything had happened, but just figured I wouldn’t bother (I was already late for work). A mistake it seems…
I’ll be down at lunch again. I’ll try and get a picture of Paul as well!!! ๐
fjp
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January 15, 2003 at 11:26 am #721693
Rory W
ParticipantSo if you want to identify archeire contributors simply look for chaps taking photos at lunchtime (I’ll be the one in the navy overcoat!!!) Should we all wear carnations to allow for easy identification? ๐
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January 15, 2003 at 12:10 pm #721694
Paul Clerkin
Keymasteri have a picture of the tip… it has no point…
Tip shots
http://www.archeire.com/onsite/spike_construction/index.html -
January 15, 2003 at 12:11 pm #721695
Paul Clerkin
Keymasteri’ll be back dopwn there for 1… meet outside the spar?
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January 15, 2003 at 12:11 pm #721696
fjp
ParticipantGreat. I’d hate to be any non-archeire readers down there taking photos at lunch (and wondering why they’re getting “knowing looks” from complete strangers).
I’ll keep my eyes on the spar if I’m down around one, but it might be just a little later…
fjp
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January 15, 2003 at 12:19 pm #721697
Paul Clerkin
Keymastera spike would suggest a sharp tip…
first pictures of spire tip
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January 15, 2003 at 12:22 pm #721698
Paul Clerkin
Keymastermore
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January 15, 2003 at 12:26 pm #721699
ro_G
Participantthe bits in the second pic that are covered by radley engineering lettering – i presume the beacons lie underneath – or are they gaps ?
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January 15, 2003 at 12:27 pm #721700
Paul Clerkin
Keymasteryet more
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January 15, 2003 at 12:30 pm #721701
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterlast one for a while
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January 15, 2003 at 12:32 pm #721702
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by ro_G
the bits in the second pic that are covered by radley engineering lettering – i presume the beacons lie underneath – or are they gaps ?beacon is beneath i believe… they tore off some of the wrapping so RTE could get it on the one o’clock news… guess they missed that scoop ๐
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January 15, 2003 at 12:32 pm #721703
Anonymous
Inactiveireland.com is saying that it will all be in place by midnight …
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January 15, 2003 at 12:38 pm #721704
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterguys on the site arent shure…
pieces 123 are up
45 are still on ground
they’re bolting 6 to 78 to lift in one piece -
January 15, 2003 at 12:47 pm #721705
-Donnacha-
ParticipantIsn’t it well for ye all that seem to live AND work in the city centre. Hope you get some good pics for those who can’t be there.
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January 15, 2003 at 1:10 pm #721706
lostcarpark
ParticipantWell, I get a good view of it from our 6th floor office in Ballsbridge. Still no sign of piece number 4 going up.
I must say it looks amazing on this sunny day.
James
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January 15, 2003 at 1:23 pm #721707
PaulC
Participanthere is a pic from the Irish Times
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January 15, 2003 at 1:29 pm #721708
LOB
ParticipantOriginally posted by Paul Clerkin
last one for a whileNew bright luxury accomodation for Housemartins located in the city centre ๐
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January 15, 2003 at 2:16 pm #721709
Murpho
ParticipantHey, great pic PaulC.
I am new to this forum and I just wanted to comment that having seen that picture from The Irish Times, that I really think the spire looks great and is a great architectural and artistic development in Dublin.
I was just wondering does anyone know what vandalism precautions have been taken in the design. How will it cope when some asshole tries to spray his name on it or even attacks it with a hammer. Is the very bottom section protected in some way?
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January 15, 2003 at 2:37 pm #721710
Sue
ParticipantThink of all the hospitals they could have built with that money what’s been wasted on that spike. What’s it all for anyway? What’s the point of it? They should have rebuilt Nelson’s Pillar and put the Blessed Virgin on top. I’m going to get onto that Liveline programme immediately to give out about this.
Signed,
Outraged Mother of Nine
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January 15, 2003 at 2:38 pm #721711
fjp
ParticipantHurray again!!!
Well I’m back. Bummer with the Bus strike – walked there and got a taxi back (from Baggot Street).
Anyway, here’s another twenty five new photos:
just click on this bit of text
They start at “spike-030115-01.jpg”, and “spike-030115-13-tip…” etc refers to photos of the last section on the ground (pointy enough to kill you if you fell from a plane onto it).
Looks sweet alright, particularly from distances, although I did notice a dull patch on it about half way up (sounds like what Graham noticed yesterday – sorry!!!). But it still looks top dollar, especially from a little further away.
And I think I saw Paul, but it was as I was legging it back to work. And I’m sort of shy…
fjp
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January 15, 2003 at 2:53 pm #721712
Niall
Participantlooks good.
I still don’t know what precautions have been taken to stop vandalism.
Does anyone know?
If it is just left there I’d give it hours before the first name appears on it……..
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January 15, 2003 at 3:03 pm #721713
ro_G
Participantwhat is the nature of that blotch though – and can it be cleaned up?
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January 15, 2003 at 3:07 pm #721714
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantThe visible joins or ridges or whatever they are on fjp’s photos look terrible. I hope they’re dirt or glue from the wrapping, not welds.
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January 15, 2003 at 3:16 pm #721715
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterBack for a while – not much happening down there for a few hours according to the engineer
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January 15, 2003 at 3:18 pm #721716
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThere are some very visible blemishes unfortunetly
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January 15, 2003 at 3:21 pm #721717
Paul Clerkin
Keymasterits so cool to see it all there.. so near and yet so far
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January 15, 2003 at 3:22 pm #721718
descarrga
ParticipantIt has been a refreshing and re-assuring pleasure watching spike arrive- through your words and (thankfully) photos-
As a native who has never studied or worked professionally at home, passionate discourse about an urban design project has had me checking your message board from afar (NYC) with increasing enthusiasm- an event to challenge the visual illiteracy i unfortunately grew up with (regular trips to mayo and her pock-marked landscape of south fork mansions on the side of a hill, overlooking a bog, sadly re-emphasise this) —-
fjp- the photos are fantastic and have been well circulated over here-
can anybody give me an idea of the anchoring &/or foundations- also the connections between segments- is there a small man from achill island up there with a spanner? -
January 15, 2003 at 3:24 pm #721719
GregF
ParticipantDespite the welding joints…..does’nt it look great however…very futuristic, almost alien, a monument for the Raelians too no doubt, an oblelisk like in 2001 A Space Odyssey ….we just need an Ape-man aka ‘Scanger’ touching it in wonder……pity they’re not going with the Mercury base however…..Does anyone know what precisely is to go there.
Jesus what a great addition to the city…well done to the council for backing this one…..may the repaving, replanting and rejuvenation of O’Connell Street go ahead. It will be one of the best streets in Europe. -
January 15, 2003 at 3:26 pm #721720
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterAnyone know what Ian Ritchie looks like?
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January 15, 2003 at 3:33 pm #721721
Rory W
ParticipantFantastic image of the tracksuit brigade/2001 – hilarious
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January 15, 2003 at 3:36 pm #721722
Murpho
ParticipantGregF: I couldn’t agree more. This has really taken balls to go ahead with this one. It is futuristic, stylish and innovative, and hopefully is the first step in turning O’Connell St into the focal point of the city it should be.
All those people saying that the money should be spent on the homeless of hospitals are talking through their arses. The amount of money spent on this project would not have any effect on the social problems of the city and if their logic was to be extended further then we would live in a world that did not know, The Eiffel Tower, Colloseum in Rome, Pyramids, Big Ben etc (Don’t forget Liberty Hall ๐ )
I really hope the people of Ireland (not only Dublin) take this monument to their hearts and see it is a symbol of a change from the poverty stricken backward country that it was on its to way to a wealthy modern and exciting nation that we should be!Go on the Spike!
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January 15, 2003 at 3:37 pm #721723
lostcarpark
ParticipantI agree, O’Connell Street should look great. I still miss the Fluzie though.
Now, if we could just get all the fast food restaurants to clean up their image. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be there. I don’t think we should turn the street into a museum or anything. However, I think without exception they could do a lot more to make their image more appropriate to the street.
Shame about the imperfections. Hopefully they’ll be giving the whole thing a polish when it’s in place. I wonder will keeping it clean be a problem. I think there’s a company that makes little robots that can trundle up and down structures like this to keep them clean.
Did you find out when the next piece is going to be attached.
James
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January 15, 2003 at 3:37 pm #721724
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI can only see a list of pics up to yesterday on fjp’s site. Am I doing something wrong?
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January 15, 2003 at 3:39 pm #721725
lostcarpark
ParticipantTry pressing Refresh on your browser. ๐
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January 15, 2003 at 3:43 pm #721726
Murpho
Participantlostcarpark:
I’m sure it will be polished when complete.
As for cleaning, apparently its design is self-cleaning. Apparently when it rains (it shouldn’t prove a problem!) that the rain will flow down the spire and take all dirt with it! Clever eh?
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January 15, 2003 at 3:47 pm #721727
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterHow are they going to polish it in situ?
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January 15, 2003 at 5:28 pm #721728
kefu
ParticipantWhen I saw the models of the Spire, I always thought it was beautifully shiny and lustrous.
The most impressive thing now is that it has retained those qualities.
It’s almost exactly as Ritchie envisioned it. I hope he’s happy with the way it turned out.
The nearly final product is a vindication for all of us who have been [even if it’s only quietly] supporting this project since it was chosen. -
January 15, 2003 at 5:41 pm #721729
kefu
ParticipantRe vandalism, this is an extract from an interesting article at
http://www.nidi.org/index.cfm/ci_id/10810.htm
‘The bottom 12 metres of the spire will retain its mirrored finish but will be etched with an abstract design to improve resistance to dirt and graffiti.
Stainless steel was chosen for its corrosion resistance, structural behaviour and visual/sculptural qualities, adds Graham. The spire has been designed to last at least 130 years.’
Don’t know how effective it will be against the more determined.
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January 15, 2003 at 5:51 pm #721730
lostcarpark
ParticipantGraffiti was already mentioned. How about “Nelson was ‘ere.”
Which is true.
James
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January 15, 2003 at 6:04 pm #721731
GrahamH
ParticipantI can see it, from only 3 storeys up in Aungier Street, and its only half built! It’s finish is exquisite from a distance, it’s always reflecting the light at the slightest hint of sunshine and looks stunning.
I suspect the real vandals will not be spray painters/joyriders etc, but rather little kids, scratching the base with coins/rings etc. -
January 15, 2003 at 6:21 pm #721732
ro_G
Participanthmmm 130 years? anyone think it will outlast that figure?
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January 15, 2003 at 6:33 pm #721733
kefu
Participanthopefully none of us will ever know
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January 15, 2003 at 6:49 pm #721734
fjp
Participantmy chinese geneticist friends say different.
The spike is going to be written on. All someone has to do is walk up, lean against it with their hands behind their back, and write their initials with a marker. Simple as that, and they’ll think it’s hilarious too. So it’s going to happen, and all the sterilisation machines in the world couldn’t stop it.
Hopefully the corpo will just clean it off every morning, and fine people a PSII if they’re caught. Or even better – make them clean it every morning for a fortnight (sweet, and cost effective too).
fjp
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January 15, 2003 at 9:40 pm #721735
Niall
Participantwhy not just make it impossible to touch it.. problem solved. It’s going to be covered in grafitti and god knows what else after pubs close……….
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January 15, 2003 at 10:00 pm #721736
fjp
ParticipantI guess they could have achieved that by putting it in the middle of a big decorative pool, although water features on that location have had problems in the past (because bad people kept resting by them (and they looked grim)). So perhaps that’s why they didn’t do the pool thing then.
I guess it’s hard to figure out an easy way to stop people from touching something without it seeming a little facist. Railings just wouldn’t be good. The pool thing could backfire for the reasons above (places for drunk people to relax). An excellent method for stopping graffiti on walls is to plant creeping ivy plants. They make the wall look nice when they’re grown, and are really hard to write on (being plants). Anyone fancy proposing the development of the world’s tallest ivy?
So we’re back to enforcement (in this country?) versus vigilante snipers on the GPO. I’ll be very disappointed when I see the first piece of writing. But dissappointed at the beaver-munchers who wrote it, and not the spike designers, as I also look forward to walking up and touching it for the first time. Don’t forget that humans like contact with objects.
Snipers. Maybe just with Air Rifles.
fjp
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January 15, 2003 at 10:43 pm #721737
GrahamH
ParticipantI was on the Street just before 7 this evening, the site worker there said they are still proposing to go ahead with it’s completion tonight, & hopefully get it finished by day-break.
I posted this before but anyway, it is proposed to have a dedicated cleaning crew (1/2 people) to clean the base of the Spire once a week, employed by the City Council. -
January 15, 2003 at 10:48 pm #721738
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterReally? was down earlier this evening, in the darkness the spike has a beautiful black silky appearance as it disappears into the sky.
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January 15, 2003 at 11:39 pm #721739
allesandro
Participantwhat an amazing piece of work the spire is, i would like to thank you for the wonderful photos on the website, i am currently living abroad and so appreciate them all the more.
the spire could be oh so famous yet, just think of the possibilities,
carlsberg dont do knitting needles but if they did!
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January 15, 2003 at 11:57 pm #721740
ro_G
Participantkinda like christmas eve, cant wait for tomorrow to see it!
think i’ll check into the Oval tomorrow night for a pint and a good look close-up.
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January 16, 2003 at 1:50 am #721741
CTR
ParticipantIts great!! One small niggle….is the steel blemished in places? I saw section 3 on it side yesterday and it seemed sort of blemished or pocked in places. Suppose that wont be visable from afar.
Does anyone agree that it could have been designed with a wider diameter at the base. The street could have taked a slightly bulkier base and still it could have tapered nicely. Just seems a bit narrow to me. Still , it has it beauty too! Roll on the lighting up ceremony. Im hoping to wake and find that they got all 6 sections up by morning.
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January 16, 2003 at 5:44 am #721742
John Matrix
ParticipantThanks heaps FJP
I’m heading back to live in Dublin next month after 3 years in Sydney(yes, I am mad!), however your latest photos of the Spike have been encouraging, is that blue sky in some of them photos !!!
Dublins very own Centrepoint !
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January 16, 2003 at 8:38 am #721743
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterSpire completion delayed by high winds
RTE NewsThe Chief Engineer on the project to complete the erection of the Spire on Dublin’s O’Connell St says the project will not recommence within the next 48 hours. Michael O’Neill said they now had to take stock of weather conditions before any further work on the project can be carried out. He added that the high winds which have hampered the project so far this week are due to continue for the next 48 hours so the project will be put on hold until then.
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January 16, 2003 at 8:39 am #721744
Rory W
ParticipantAlas, due to the windy weather it’s off until the weekend, still better late than never.
How about declaring it a national monument – thereby anyone who defaces it could be up for a major fine/prison.
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January 16, 2003 at 9:15 am #721745
alastair
Participantit looks complete from my point of view!?
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January 16, 2003 at 9:39 am #721746
GregF
ParticipantI agree Rory…….no doubt there will be some ‘lost soul’ trying to plough a stolen car into it’s base or some ‘Cro Magnon’ trying to scrawl their name ‘Ug’ or ‘Man U’ on it’s base.
The gardai although only up the road are normally asleep too that they miss those things.
Here’s to the Spire, urban living and civilization itself. -
January 16, 2003 at 10:10 am #721747
Niall
ParticipantDelayed again
This is a great advert for the companies involved.
What were they all doing during the good weather last week and who’s footing the bill?This is a right circus!
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January 16, 2003 at 10:34 am #721748
Po
Participantpics look like ‘weapons of mass destruction’ to me.
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January 16, 2003 at 11:24 am #721749
alastair
Participantoops. sorry I’d a fuzzy head on me earlier. I mistook a dublin bus depot aerial for the spike (!really!)
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January 16, 2003 at 12:18 pm #721750
ew
ParticipantWhile waiting for the wind to die down, check out the latest public project aimed at revitalising Soap Lake in Washington State.
“The structure, similar to the Eiffel Tower in Paris and the Space Needle in Seattle, Washington, will provide worldwide interest and positive publicity for the City of Soap Lake, Grant County and the State of Washington.”
This was on the BBC during the week and made me wonder could it happen here… In fairness there were worse ideas entered in the Dublin competition…
Heard on the news this morning that there are 4 sections up at the moment. Looks like 3 to me. I presume the news (spin) got it wrong…?
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January 16, 2003 at 12:30 pm #721751
fjp
ParticipantWell, the Spike will certainly be a must-see for any tourist in Ireland. Hell, yesterday there were tourists getting their photos taken with it as a background.
The Lava Lamp sounds like a good idea and a terrible idea rolled into one. On one hand, lava lamps are a bit cliched and old, and the design looks a little too like a giant version of the “desktop” model. On the other hand, if anyone turns on a lava lamp in front of me I will stare at it, and so I would certainly go see this crazy thing if I was up visiting that dam. In summary – they should build it. It will bring in mney and tourists and be very, very pretty (especially at night). I’d certainly visit their web cam.
On other business: I think it’s four. See – the joins are pretty good!!
Alastair: “a bus depot aerial”????????????????????
fjp
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January 16, 2003 at 12:38 pm #721752
urbanisto
ParticipantThe Spire got a pic on page 2 of the Guardian this morning….
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January 16, 2003 at 1:05 pm #721753
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI don’t know if they got the fourth piece up or not. Just stepped out onto Henrietta Street and it still seems to be the same distance above the school in the foreground on Bolton Street that it was yesterday. The crane being in the down position may make it look taller tho.
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January 16, 2003 at 1:59 pm #721754
Fiona
Participantdoes anyone know if theres going to be a budget over-run due to delays. i was told a standard site crane costs around 1000 eupos a day to rent and operate, so how much does that monstrosity cost? even if it is just resting on its laurels most of the time.
i think peoples dismissal of the spike is a bit of a sham. the same lovely dublin folk who keep saying “disagrace-a” at the top of their voices for tv3’s cameras are the very people who this thing is aimed at. they are engaging with it, forming opinions, whether good or bad, and reacting to this piece of art, which is the whole purpose of the spike in the frst place.
good on ya bertie
– – – — – —
as an aside, how many people have heard “its nearly as big as mine,har har har” or “they’re havin a bit o bodder down dere lads, they need volunteers to put it up, har har har” or “i wonder if they’ll sit bertie up on top when its done, har har etcetera” -
January 16, 2003 at 2:02 pm #721755
alastair
ParticipantOriginally posted by fjp
Alastair: “a bus depot aerial”????????????????????
Not as mad as it sounds. The depot lies between me and the spike, and I’ve been watching the top of the crane from my window the last few days. When the crane had disappeared this morning, and there was a tall slender object in roundabout the same spot, I jumped to conclusions. As I say, my head was fuzzy.
I’m concerned about the ‘clean up job’ needed for the spike as it stands at the moment. It’s manky on the north earl street side, and there are bits of tape etc hanging off it quite high up. I would have thought the best place to sort that out was when it’s on the ground. Are they going to dangle a cleaning guy from a crane halfway up the thing when its finished or use those eyelets at the top to have someone absail up/down and clean it that way? Seems needlessly difficult.
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January 16, 2003 at 2:44 pm #721756
ew
ParticipantThe crane was rented at a flat fee for the entire job rather than per day. So any overrun won’t be due to the crane lying idle.
Fionas comments are interesting – a wonderful part of the project is the discussion provoked. Crowds looking at the work and waiting for the event are what makes the monument an occasion. And the thought of so many mystery archeire contributers with digital cameras there adds to this!
I don’t know where TV3 drag their stock “characters” from, but the comments that are featured in the vox-pops certaintly don’t reflect the comments I’ve heard down there recently.
People are engaging in a way that was missing from the competition. I think people were sceptical back then as to weather the project would be followed through on. If the spire gets completed (and indications are good!) it should bode well for public consultations, competions in the future.
And it looks cool too! Well done . -
January 16, 2003 at 2:58 pm #721757
ro_G
Participanti have seen it written that the Spire is designed to be self-cleaning. How so?
And what exactly are the eyelets for? To radiate light? To allow wind to blow through rather than wobbling it?
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January 16, 2003 at 3:04 pm #721758
dpower
ParticipantHave to say I’m a little bit dissapointed with the finishing of the steel- you can clearly see what look like heat sinks where the stainless was glued to the ribbing. Thought is would be cleaner- especially after reading that Sunday Times article about how long it took to polish it. Don’t think that they should have shot-peened it.
Having said that- it should look awsome with a few lights on it at night. -
January 16, 2003 at 3:07 pm #721759
ro_G
ParticipantWonder if Ian Ritchie and the boys have taken to calling it the Spike now too ?
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January 16, 2003 at 3:11 pm #721760
lostcarpark
ParticipantAnd what exactly are the eyelets for? To radiate light? To allow wind to blow through rather than wobbling it?
Probably so the crane can attach hooks to pick it up!
James
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January 16, 2003 at 3:27 pm #721761
ro_G
Participanteyeletts the wrong word … i meant these perforations…
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January 16, 2003 at 3:28 pm #721762
Rory W
ParticipantOf two recent points
The eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS) and the contractors (McNally’s) do not mind the delay in construction (they say they are getting wonderful publicity for it) and have waived any overrun costs for the crane.
Good on them, quite civic minded wouldn’t you say
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January 16, 2003 at 3:39 pm #721763
Niall
ParticipantBloody chancers more like, still don’t know what they were up to last week.
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January 16, 2003 at 3:49 pm #721764
lostcarpark
ParticipantWith all due respect, there were some pretty strong gayles last week, especially in the first half of the week. I was very surprised that they were working on it yesterday, given the winds the night before.
When a project is three years late, who’s going to worry about a couple of weeks?
James
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January 16, 2003 at 3:50 pm #721765
alastair
ParticipantOriginally posted by Rory W
Of two recent pointsThe eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS)
Nah, there are 4 large eyelets above the leds/lamp area. probably for hoisting up, but might also be handy for maypole/gallows conversion.
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January 16, 2003 at 3:54 pm #721766
dpower
ParticipantThe eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS)
Apparently Hewlett Packard developed a new kind of LED especially for the spire
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January 16, 2003 at 3:55 pm #721767
DaM
ParticipantHavent been here in a while ……..have to say the spike is a great addition to dublin and much needed……
but I dont think they should ever let it be completed just keep building it ….
the futurists said that the construction process was the most exciting part of a buildings/projects life ………the spike with its delays etc is certainly creating this excitement…………….let it go on and on……….
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January 16, 2003 at 4:18 pm #721768
lostcarpark
ParticipantJust to clarify, there are a series of “eyelets” at the very top, presumably for hoisting the section.
There is also a collection of “holes” or “perferations” around the entire length of the top two sections, which are to let light out. I hadn’t heard about LED lighting. My understanding was that a searchlight in the bottom section would shine up and filter through the holes and out the perspec block at the tip. But LED lighting would be cool. They could even have a “Christmas” setting which blinks the LEDs in groups (only kidding).
James
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January 16, 2003 at 4:38 pm #721769
Anonymous
InactiveRe the Spike being self-cleaning etc. Usual architect’s optimism. Two eternal facts are:
1. No material is truly self-cleaning.
2. Stainless steel is usually not stainless.Buildings all over the UK sport blotchy stainless steel because the wrong (cheaper) grade was specified. Only genuinely stainless steel is kitchen-grade, which costs a lot.
Anyone know what grade s/s the Spire is made of?
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January 16, 2003 at 4:41 pm #721770
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by Rory W
Of two recent pointsThe eyelets are to radiate light (via i think 70,000 LEDS) and the contractors (McNally’s) do not mind the delay in construction (they say they are getting wonderful publicity for it) and have waived any overrun costs for the crane.
SIAC are the contractors, McNallys (it takes monaghan men to sort out Dublin) are the crane hire specialists. They’re neighbours of mine at home, a mile or so up the road.
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January 16, 2003 at 4:59 pm #721771
CTR
Participanthey all
I had a good gawk at it close up today, on my lunch break. It was possible to see it swaying in the heavier breezes. No surpirse there.
But again, I have to say that the finish of the steel, in daylight at least, is a big disappointment. There are noticeable score marks on section two. i dont mind the ribbing as its not visible from a distance, they are horizontal and evenly spaced. But some of these other marks and dull patches are visible from 100 metres away or more. Some are vertical and crooked too. It looks ‘weathered’ and could pass for an object that has been there for years.
Of course, these marks (Im hoping) might just be from the packaging material and may be wiped off at the end.
I think its going to look quite magical with blue skies or at dusk/dawn when its still lighting. The design around the base (marble and flowing mercury) sounds exciting too.
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January 16, 2003 at 5:03 pm #721772
lostcarpark
ParticipantYeah, I really hope it gets proper attention and cleanup. We have an awful tendancy to get things so nearly right in this country, with our “it’ll do” approach. I hope we can get this one right.
James
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January 16, 2003 at 5:03 pm #721773
alastair
Participantthe mercury (under glass) idea is long gone. Someone had a bit of cop on and pointed out it was dangerous stuff. How they expected it to last when the wee uplighters in the path at the millenium bridge lasted about a week escapes me.
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January 16, 2003 at 5:39 pm #721774
emf
ParticipantMmmm!Those marks are probably (hopefully) remnants of the glue from the tape that was used to attach the wrapping! (By the way is 22 pages a record here?)
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January 16, 2003 at 5:46 pm #721775
ro_G
ParticipantYes, the Bertie Bowl thread notched up a very respectable 103 replies whereas this one has a rather amazing 317 nuggets of collective wisdom and has been viewed 14025 times.
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January 16, 2003 at 6:36 pm #721776
ro_G
Participantgood picture on http://www.recirca.com from Peter Fitzpatrick
http://www.recirca.com/artnews/151.shtml -
January 16, 2003 at 7:27 pm #721777
GrahamH
ParticipantTo clarify about the LED situation, it was originally proposed to light the tip with something like 27 floresent tubes, however it was decided to employ the technology of new LEDs that are being used across the US at the moment to replace older floodlighting and display signs. These modern LEDs have the life of approx 30 years, and so will be installed in the Spire. However, their inevitable replacement has been accounted for with the installation of an internal pully system to lower the ‘clump’ of socketry and LEDs to it’s base (inside). This internal chamber is accessed from an underground tunnel which is accessed via a ‘secret’ trapdoor in the central median, further up the street. A ladder also runs up the Spire’s interior to the point where a human can no longer fit (although for what, I don’t know)
Exceptionally narrow beams of light will be projected from the 4 corner buildings surrounding the Spire, and will be aimed at different areas to evenly spead the light. The beams are to be narrow so as to light only the Spire and not the night sky, and more importantly not the street so as not to blind pedestrians. Coloured filters would be brilliant(as mentioned before) such as green for Patricks Day etc.
These LEDs are also to be used in the hundreds of light fittings which are to be recessed into the new paving on O’ Connell Street, beneath all of it’s 250 or so new trees. and in other areas, such as the plaza outside the GPO.
The crane is expected to take 2 weeks to dissassemble and move off-site, so how long will it be before the base is offically unveiled? Presumably, we’ll also have to wait for the cast bronze base to be installed, and the surrounding paving to be laid. Considering that the paving/plaza works aren’t being started just yet, will temporary paving be laid for the offical unveiling? esp that presumably Bertie will be ‘cutting the ribbon, & that the word’s media will be present (or at least Europe’s)? -
January 16, 2003 at 8:16 pm #721778
fjp
Participant -
January 16, 2003 at 8:22 pm #721779
CiaranO
Participantlink wont work……….
C.
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January 16, 2003 at 8:31 pm #721780
flysrmd11
ParticipantLink works fine here. ๐
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January 16, 2003 at 8:52 pm #721781
ro_G
Participantlol fjp.
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January 16, 2003 at 10:09 pm #721782
lostcarpark
ParticipantWhere was that photo taken? The building in the middle looks almost exactly like my apartment building, but the surrounding buildings don’t look quite right, so I don’t think it is.
Oh, doctoring looks great, by the way.
James (confused)
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January 17, 2003 at 10:48 am #721783
Murpho
ParticipantSo whats the latest? No news in the paper today ( I live in Holland so I can only read the Indo online).
Will the Spire/spike/ stiffy by the liffey etc be finished this weekend?:confused:
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January 17, 2003 at 10:51 am #721784
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterDepends on the weather, its still very breezey
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January 17, 2003 at 11:05 am #721785
lostcarpark
ParticipantThe story yesterday was that it wouldn’t proceed for at lest 48 hours, but if the wind calms, they could try over the weekend.
James
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January 17, 2003 at 3:59 pm #721786
Far Glynn
ParticipantIs there anywhere on the web I can view some of the other entries for this competition? I’d love to have a look (and a laugh?) at some of the near misses which would no doubt now be in place had they won!
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January 17, 2003 at 4:05 pm #721787
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterSome further details here
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&postid=156#post156 -
January 17, 2003 at 4:39 pm #721788
ew
ParticipantThis question was raised before, with limited success
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1261&goto=nextoldest -
January 17, 2003 at 4:51 pm #721789
Far Glynn
ParticipantInteresting, thanks. I think we have a deserved winner judging from the bits and pieces I’ve seen and heard.
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January 17, 2003 at 5:14 pm #721790
Ebear
ParticipantHi all
I’ve been lurking here for the past few weeks just to keep an eye on this thread. It’s the best way to keep up to date with what’s going on up in O’Connell Street.
Personally, I’m looking forward to the Spike. I can imagine better things, but I can imagine a lot worse. As someone old enough to remember when Leeson Street was Dublin’s idea of a night out I’m get a kick out of anything positive that happens in the city. Shame though that the Corpo aren’t taking advantage of the PR opportunity to have a spikewatch at their own site, instead of leaving it up to people like Paul and FJP to provide a public service.
Does any physicist out there know if the spike will cast a shadow? If so, I’ve been suggesting for the last year or so that some good-hearted philanthropist with bags of money should commission public sculptures (any old subject) at twelve strategically chosen locations in the streets around. Then we’d have the largest sundial in the world as well ๐
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January 17, 2003 at 5:32 pm #721791
fjp
ParticipantNice sundial idea. I guess it could work by placing things at uneven distances fomr the spike, so that they wouldn’t be obvious straight away…
And this really is a good source of info, so well done again to Paul. In the meantime, here’s Dundrum looking inwards again…
fjp
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January 17, 2003 at 5:41 pm #721792
Niall
ParticipantGood photos also in Frank McDonald’s excellent book ‘ The construction of Dublin’ of the also-rans. They were truly awful!
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January 17, 2003 at 5:47 pm #721793
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI love the sundial idea, had occurred to me as well when I was on the street yesterday. It would be so cool to have pieces mounted on the buildings.
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January 17, 2003 at 6:22 pm #721794
Django
ParticipantHi, this is an urgent urgent request and I get the impression that someone on this thread may be able to help me.
I need a high resolution picture of the Spike, preferably one of the computer-generated images that I often see floating about. Also, it needs to be a profile picture rather than landscape.
Can anyone help?! I have already requested this a number of times from the Corpo (or should that be City Council) press office but frankly they have been as helpful as a kick in the jaw. I’m relying on the kindness of real people now. Please send any large images you may have to tribune@campus.ie
Thank you,
Cormac
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January 17, 2003 at 6:26 pm #721795
Django
ParticipantA picture of the Spike as it is proposed to look that is, not as it looks now… maybe that was obvious though.
Actually, seeing as how I am writing again, here’s one encounter I had with the Corpo press office just today:
Me: “Hi, can I get a high-resolution image of the Spike emailed to me please?”
Corpo: “(Silence)”
Me: “Hello?”
Corpo: “The what?”
Me: “The Spike…”
Corpo “(Long silence, then)… Ooohh, you mean the Spire…”
FERFECKSSAKES!
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January 17, 2003 at 6:35 pm #721796
lostcarpark
Participant -
January 18, 2003 at 9:52 am #721797
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI have original hi-res versions of the architects images if you want them…..
Any action to happen today? whats the weather forecast like
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January 19, 2003 at 12:37 am #721798
flysrmd11
ParticipantThere was much discussion about keeping the Spire clean. This article from today’s Sunday Times may be of interest:
Copyright: Sunday Times
Spire cleaning squad to ward off vandals
John BurnsGRAFFITI will be cleaned off the Spire of Dublin up to three times a day, according to the city council.
Planners expect the monument, due to be completed this week, will be a target for vandalism as Dubliners try to autograph the worldรขโฌโขs largest sculpture. But a specialist company is to be employed to keep the base of the stainless-steel spire clean.รขโฌลWe are confident that we have solvents available to remove spray paint from the monument,รขโฌย said Jim Barrett, the city architect. รขโฌลWe will be cleaning it twice or three times a day, because we anticipate there will be a temptation to write on it. We may employ a private company to do the cleaning and monitor its alarm system.รขโฌย
The alarm will be triggered if there is a malfunction in the lighting or if anyone attempts to break into the 120 metre-high structure.
The spire has an underground chamber to facilitate maintenance, such as replacement of the lighting. The entrance to the chamber is guarded by a sophisticated system of computerised-locking doors. As well as cleaning with solvent, the council is also making arrangements to polish the structure, especially the bottom 12 metres featuring a mirrored finish with an abstract design etched in.
Barrett said: รขโฌลWe will have a mobile polisher and anticipate giving it a shine three or four times a year. If there are scratches, we can revisit it from time to time with manual polishing.
รขโฌลAny reduction in the thickness of the monument due to polishing would be very slight, and would take hundreds of years before it makes an impact.
รขโฌลIf someone physically takes a hammer and chisel to this they will find it is tough stainless steel. The impact would be quite small.รขโฌย
There will not be a permanent closed-circuit camera trained on the structure, but it will be lit at night. The council is also planning to erect a series of bollards and kerbs around the base to prevent ramming with cars. รขโฌลIt will be impossible even for a tank to get up,รขโฌย Barrett promised.
The first three of eight sections have now been installed but work was halted on Wednesday due to high winds. It is planned to restart the installation on Tuesday. Sections six, seven and eight have been joined together, which will speed up the final stages.
รขโฌลIt could be finished by Wednesday afternoon but the electrical work then has to be done,รขโฌย said a council spokeswoman. รขโฌลWe have no formal launch date. The launch will be a big event so weรขโฌโขll have to apply for a licence. It should be a couple of weeks after itรขโฌโขs finished.รขโฌย
Silver ceremonial coins are planned to mark the launch of the monument, which is years behind schedule because of legal challenges and engineering difficulties. Originally to be named after the millennium, it is now officially titled the Spire of Dublin.
Designed by Ian Ritchie Architects in London, the 124-ton structure is 40 stories high. Even though only half-built, it is already visible from some elevated vantage points in the suburbs.
The spire has been designed to allow its tip to move 2.5 metres in the wind. The top nine metres are perforated with almost 12,000 15mm holes to allow it to radiate light. Rainwater will be collected in an internal gutter and will be flushed to the ground.
Spire cleaning squad to ward off vandals
John BurnsJeremiah
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January 19, 2003 at 4:15 pm #721799
GrahamH
ParticipantAlso in the Sunday Times, in the Culture section, Micheal Ross describes the Spire as “less a sculpture than a fetish directed towards the tourist industry as to locals, it is just another part of the commodification of Irish culture” He describes it as the least democratic of the millenium projects, allowing no public access, and typical of largely useless public projects.
Whereas I agree with the democratic aspect, whatever about the comments of Dublin ‘characters’ on TV 3 News, these remarks from a usually well informed & educated individual are disappointing.
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January 20, 2003 at 8:24 am #721800
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterMore pieces supposed to go up today. Michael Ross’s comments are unfortunate.
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January 20, 2003 at 9:06 am #721801
GregF
ParticipantIt is good to see that the council has thought of every possible assault on the Spire by disgruntled members of the public.
All this whinging too about it not being accessible to the public. Had it been it would have been alot bulkier to accomadate such….aka too bulky for the street.
Let’s hope the opening ceremony however will be a big event…..(it would really benefit the profile of the country and Bord Failte)… and that that great man of letters, art, sport and culture, aka our leader and Taoiseach B…B…Bertie will attend as well as the government,……and the First Lady herself will be there as well ….no not Cecelia …….but Our President Mary McAleese……and let’s ‘hope too they get those guys to polish up the buttons and get them out of those barracks for the day …….yep. the army, our protectors and defenders and their musical colleagues the army no 1 band to play an auld tune or two to liven up the occasion.
I could see it all now………as the army No 1 band play ‘Also Sprach Zarathustra’ by Strauss…..(the opening music in 2001 A Space Odyssey) the Spire is lit in time to the music as it climaxes with the crescendo and the Spire stands fully lit for all to see and wonder with awe…….and then the Chieftains start up with ‘Around the Table and Mind the Dresser’…………..Yahoo! ……..Heres to it all….it is a great occasion for the city of Dublin and Ireland…..let’s celebrate.(It could be a focal point for the New Year celebrations too instead of it bieng like a ghost town)
Michael Ross sounds like he is seriously disgruntled about something ….hence his gripe….Is he a buddy of Michael O Nullain. He will have to eat his words and swallow his pride when it is all complete.
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January 20, 2003 at 9:19 am #721802
RSJ
ParticipantHave read the Michael Ross piece. Cleverly worded crap. Every successful society has “decadent emblems”. All politics is to do with show, and always has been. The man is making mouth noises.
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January 20, 2003 at 9:42 am #721803
Murpho
ParticipantCan anyone, give a link where I can read this article. Tried their website but you need a to have a paid up subscription.
Anyhow, work is supposed to commence this morning after 9 am (which it now is.) Any sign of activity on O’Connell St? How are the winds, will it be completed today?
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January 20, 2003 at 9:52 am #721804
ew
ParticipantFelt very windy down there this morning. Heard on the radio that it’s been postphoned to later in week.
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January 20, 2003 at 9:53 am #721805
Jim Cumiskey
ParticipantAs a born, bred and buttered North-sider, I wanted to say thanks to everyone who’s contributed to this discussion which I’ve been watching for a short time. The photos are great and I can’t wait to see the final unveiling. At long last, Dublin will have a central point. I’ve always felt that O’Connell Street was an empty place and, as someone old enough to remember the Pillar, everything I’ve so far seen about the Spire is so much better.
Jim
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January 20, 2003 at 10:02 am #721806
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterBeen down there this morning, the SIAC guys say they may try tonight. When asked why they didnt do it yesterday:
SIAC “Ahh I cannot tell you that”
me “But it was very calm, of course you can tell me, I’m just a member of the public”
SIAC “Members of the public have a habit of whipping out a notebook”
me “Ah go on, I don’t even own a notebook”
SIAC “Lets just say that it was a design matter” -
January 20, 2003 at 10:04 am #721807
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by Murpho
Can anyone, give a link where I can read this article. Tried their website but you need a to have a paid up subscription.Comment: Michael Ross
In Walter Benjaminรขโฌโขs celebrated formulation, the logical result of fascism is the introduction of aesthetics into politics. In Ireland this began not with the choreographed but futile appearances of Eoin OรขโฌโขDuffyรขโฌโขs Blueshirts in the 1930s, or the clumsy propagandising practised by the Stickies, but with the manipulation of Garret FitzGeraldรขโฌโขs image that made him electable in the 1980s.
Not that FitzGerald or his handlers were fascist, but by giving marketing and image manipulation privilege over policy making they began the aestheticisation of Irish politics. More than ever, politics became a dramatic narrative, and with a pliable media resourcing rolling news at the expense of investigative reporting, image and perception became everything.Ian Ritchieรขโฌโขs Spire of Light is another artefact of that process, appropriately reaching completion in a week in which Irelandรขโฌโขs hospital service suffered unprecedented crisis. Intended as a symbol of Ireland in the third Christian millennium, Ritchieรขโฌโขs 130 tons of shot-peened stainless steel has indeed become that, but hardly as intended.
There have been more grotesque wastes of public money, but Ritchieรขโฌโขs spire รขโฌโ ostensibly a brave, clean, optimistic symbol of a society liberated from traditional pieties รขโฌโ stands out as a decadent emblem of a culture fixated by spectacle.
Chosen by a panel of seven, only two of whom had any democratic mandate, the spire was imposed without public consultation by an administration fixated by expensive and largely useless public projects, one that talks the laissez-faire talk but still walks the Napoleonic walk.
At over รขโยฌ4m the most expensive of the projects approved by the national millennium committee, the spire is also the least democratic, allowing no public access, the mirror finish of its base a dismal acknowledgment of antisocial tendencies of many of those for whom it was provided.
Structural engineers and architects will genuflect before it, and even members of the public hostile to it may come around. But less a sculpture than a fetish directed as much towards the tourist industry as to locals, it is just another part of the commodification of Irish culture.
Compared with the millennium candles distributed to every home in the republic, and even the broadleaf trees planted on behalf of the countryรขโฌโขs households, it is spectacular but sterile, anti-democratic and built to exclude.
Spectacular is what is required when, instead of a politics of accountability you groom a politics of spectacle, of which the humiliation of individuals and avoidance of institutional scrutiny รขโฌโ in the tribunals, for example รขโฌโ is just another manifestation.
The narrative of Irish politics since FitzGerald has been about the triumph of good over evil, and the triumph of the individual will. From Gerry Greggรขโฌโขs disgraceful documentary series about Des OรขโฌโขMalley to Charlie McCreevyรขโฌโขs tax individualisation, public discourse in Ireland has become preoccupied with the singular at the expense of the social or structural.
Ritchieรขโฌโขs spire fits the Zeitgeist perfectly. It will be interpreted almost entirely in aesthetic terms; its significance, however, is almost entirely political.
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January 20, 2003 at 10:07 am #721808
urbanisto
ParticipantOriginally posted by Paul Clerkin
Been down there this morning, the SIAC guys say they may try tonight. When asked why they didnt do it yesterday:“Ahh I cannot tell you that”
“But it was very calm, of course you can tell me, I’m just a member of the public”
“Members of the public have a habit of whipping out a notebook”
“Ah go on, I don’t even own a notebook”
“Lets just say that it was a design matter”Which goes to prove his point Paul!
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January 20, 2003 at 10:11 am #721809
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI know…. I’m cursed with a verbatim memory ;). I need a big microphone with “Archiseek” around it……
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January 20, 2003 at 10:28 am #721810
Ebear
ParticipantA spokesguy on the radio just said they’re going to start after lunch (about two) lifting the fourth piece. If all goes well and the wind “behaves itself” they’ll keep going. Ideally, they’s like to be on the last, large, piece as dawn is breaking tomorrow, as the extra light would be useful for what is the largest and most difficult part of the operation.
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January 20, 2003 at 10:30 am #721811
GregF
ParticipantThe Spire is funded by the ‘Illuminati’….that great group of global conspiracists who have controlled world events since the dawn of time and who get their orders from the shapeshifting aliens. They were behind the construction of the Pyramids and other great structures that have been built from ancient times at the expense of hospital waiting lists and the poor.
See http://www.davidicke.com for the truth. -
January 20, 2003 at 10:41 am #721812
fjp
ParticipantJeez – that Ross guy is talking pure crap. Beautiful rhetoric, but crap none the less….
Regarding employees not making statements about construction – that’s just sensible. Remember that whole thing about the Calatrava Bridge in nthis forum?? The company is better off making full statements, and if they have a little problem that they need to (and are able to) sort out, then let them do it without the papers attempting to crucify them. Every project/job I’ve worked on has seen teething problems that we overcame. It’s normal, but the Daily Mirror and The Sun don’t tend to show things in a balanced manner.
A&E Departments: I’ve got a pal who works in one. He would like for people to stop going out at the weekend, getting plastered, and then ending up wasting their time on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Blame the drink industry??? No way – blame the Spike!!!
fjp
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January 20, 2003 at 10:49 am #721813
Niall
ParticipantAfter all this is done, I wouldn’t let SIAC (the main contractor’s) open a crisp bag!
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January 20, 2003 at 10:56 am #721814
Murpho
ParticipantThanks for the posting Paul.
I have read that article 2 or 3 times now and I have no idea what this ‘journalist’ is on about.
All sounds very intelectual with lots of big words but absolutely pointless.
It’s really a case of damned if you do or damned if you don’t for Dublin Corpo.
They are entrusted with trying to improve the city. This spire will be a major asset to the city.
The รขโยฌ5m or so being spent on this project is peanuts when compared to all the tribunals that have happened in the past. รขโยฌ5m will not go anywhere to solving the social problems in the city. Money will not stop people buying drugs or sleeping on the street nor will it improve the efficiencies of a health system.Anyhow, what else do they want instead of the spire to represent the country? An unspiring statue of Eamon DeValera, that would be covered in pigeon shit within a month? A giant crucifix? Roy Keane or Gay Byrne?
A statue of an altar boy surrounded by lusting priests?These critics who just criticise for the sake of it really piss me off!
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January 20, 2003 at 11:16 am #721815
urbanisto
ParticipantI suppose it their job. Besides the whole point of public art is to stimulate debate and discourse.
I cant help but agreeing with the comments about the Michael Ross article… so its all Garret Fitzgerald’s fault eh! All the sordid and less than wholesome features of Irish life since the 70s…. poor auld Garret. No Temple Bar or Docklands or revamped Dublin Castle or Government Buildings for him…. -
January 20, 2003 at 11:32 am #721816
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterAnother attempt will be made this afternoon to construct the Spire or Spike of Dublin. It is hoped the fourth section will be erected after lunchtime, the fifth section by evening, and the sixth and final section before dawn tomorrow.
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January 20, 2003 at 11:37 am #721817
GregF
ParticipantThe weather looks pretty fine now…so let’s hope they do it
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January 20, 2003 at 11:43 am #721818
Ebear
ParticipantI get depressed when I see ads in the IT asking “Has your house been burglarized?” (presumably by burglarizers). I get even more depressed when I see those privileged to have received a good education and a love of language using it for obscure and empty rhetoric like this, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
. . . appropriately reaching completion in a week in which Irelandรขโฌโขs hospital service suffered unprecedented crisis
/in which a celebrity chef gave a new meaning to “Hot Buns”/in which the Celtic Tiger’s motorway infrastructure was used to illustrate that E-Ireland is still an agricultural society/in which the lessons of Saipan drove the mandarins of the FAI to levels of secrecy that would leave Stalin open to allegations of Glasnost/in which . . .
Choose from any of the above.
This is not “appropriate”. This is fill-in-the-blanks journalism. Cynicism is cheap.
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January 20, 2003 at 11:48 am #721819
Jim Cumiskey
ParticipantGood view (from the bridge) at
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January 20, 2003 at 11:49 am #721820
lostcarpark
ParticipantHope it goes up today… no sign of movement from the big crane yet. If I see any I’ll let you know (got a good view of it from Ballsbridge).
James
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January 20, 2003 at 11:49 am #721821
Anonymous
Inactivecrane is not up yet anyway, good view on camvista.com (just wait for the camera to pan around) … the city councils cams are not working (again!)
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January 20, 2003 at 1:34 pm #721822
Niall
ParticipantHere we go again… Considering the EIS was signed by Ministerial order in December 2000, i.e all planning delays exhausted, what fool decided to put it up in December/January?
and what happened between December 2000 and December 2002?
Anway, another instalement in the longest running construction soap-opera……
From Ireland.com
High winds delay erection of Spire again
By Kilian Doyle Last updated: 20-01-03, 12:45Engineers mustered on O’Connell Street this morning for what could be the final chapter of the long-running saga of the Dublin Spire.
However, plans to erect the fourth section of the monument have been put on hold as strong winds whipped up around the capital this morning. It is thought there will be a delay of at least several hours.
Earlier, a Dublin City Council spokeswoman said it was “all systems go” if the weather held, allowing the final three sections of the monument to be lifted into place by tonight.
She said engineers were hoping to slot the next section in place at around noon, with the next two pieces being erected at 6.00 p.m. and 9.00 p.m.
The spokeswoman said it was still hoped the final touches on the controversial structure would be made early tomorrow morning.
The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.
The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering. The Spire stands at 53 metres. When finished, it will be 120 metres high, seven times the height of the surrounding buildings on O’Connell Street and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.
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January 20, 2003 at 1:43 pm #721823
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI swear its like we’re all waiting outside the delivery room in a maternity hospital. When they do finally finish it, we should buy a bottle of decent whiskey, meet at it and have a wee shot each ๐ or a cigar…
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January 20, 2003 at 2:03 pm #721824
PaulC
Participantsounds like a bloody good idea Paul!!!
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January 20, 2003 at 2:05 pm #721825
GregF
Participant…… open the champers too!
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January 20, 2003 at 2:14 pm #721826
urbanisto
ParticipantAaaah poor auld Liberty Hall..the old girl loses her coveted place as the city highest landmark.
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January 20, 2003 at 2:22 pm #721827
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantWe could have had another world record…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/1676761.stm -
January 20, 2003 at 2:32 pm #721828
DavidF
Participantsome pics of that flagpole can be seen here – http://www.usflag.com/poles/monsterInstall_400.html
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January 20, 2003 at 2:35 pm #721829
GrahamH
ParticipantNearly exactly the same assembly process!
I was on the Street this morning, and the first time I have seen it in dazzling sunshine, it looks spectacular!!! It stands out like a beacon between buildings & streets, over the highest terraces and pierces into the smallest of gaps, vistas and vantage points. It’s blinding to look at, esp coming up Nth Earl Street, and just gets bigger and bigger as you approach (obviously!).
I’m pleased to see that those smudges and streaks mentioned many times before, appear, in the bright sunshine, simply to be markings caused by the wrapping, and will be polished off, although the factory joins are still evident; I’ll let them away on that, only barely though!
In Washington, no building is allowed to be over 14/15 storeys so as not to be taller than the dome of the Capitol Building, will similar priviliges be granted to the Spire? (discounting the Poolbeg Chimneys of course)
Its 14.28, looking out my window, no movement on crane yet.
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January 20, 2003 at 2:37 pm #721830
urbanisto
ParticipantThat is the Spike isnt it!?
Do you think it will fall victim to a Sinn Fein inspired plan to fly a wee tricolor from the top with some tasteful Bobby Sands posters adorning the base…. Tiocaidh ar la?
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January 20, 2003 at 3:41 pm #721831
ro_G
ParticipantPurely for speculation, anyone know why the settled on it’s current height. Is it a function of the width of the base due to having to fit on the median between the roadway?
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January 20, 2003 at 3:42 pm #721832
ro_G
ParticipantOriginally posted by DavidF
some pics of that flagpole can be seen here – http://www.usflag.com/poles/monsterInstall_400.htmlwow … they make it look so simple ๐
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January 20, 2003 at 4:09 pm #721833
lostcarpark
ParticipantCrane’s up!
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January 20, 2003 at 4:11 pm #721834
Murpho
Participantlostcarpark
I’m confused now as the Irish Independent report that they won’t start until this evening, see text below:
Completion of Spire delayed again
15:33 Monday January 20th 2003
The next phase in the completion of the Millennium Spire in Dublin’s O’Connell Street has been delayed until this evening. The first of the remaining three sections was due to be put in place this afternoon but it has been postponed until later this evening due to strong winds. Engineers from Dublin City Council are using one of the largest cranes in Europe to finish the Spire which, when completed, will stand 120 metres tall.
So what’s happening there?
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January 20, 2003 at 4:14 pm #721835
DavidF
Participantfrom Ireland.com
High winds delay erection of Spire again
By Kilian Doyle Last updated: 20-01-03, 15:37Engineers are readying themselves to install the fourth section of the Spire on Dublin’s O’Connell Street.
Plans to lift the length of stainless steel into place this morning were abandoned as strong winds whipped up around the capital.
However, a Dublin City Council spokesman told ireland.com that it was hoped the work could be carried out “within the next couple of hours”.
If conditions remained favourable this evening, engineers will continue working for as long as is practical, he said. However, “health and safety is paramount at all times.”
He said the plan was to have the final pieces in place in order to be able to make the final touches on the structure early tomorrow morning.
The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.
The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering, which will be removed at the official unveiling, either at the end of this month or early next month.
The three-section long Spire currently stands at 53 metres. When finished, it will be 120 metres high, seven times the height of the surrounding buildings on O’Connell Street and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.
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January 20, 2003 at 4:18 pm #721836
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterAccording to Newstalk
“crane is supposed to be fully up… two hour wind test and 7pm start”
Just going out for a visual check on crane erectness -
January 20, 2003 at 4:20 pm #721837
alastair
Participantit (the crane) seems to be a bit higher than it was last week? (from my window anyway)
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January 20, 2003 at 4:20 pm #721838
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterCrane is now fully up again.
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January 20, 2003 at 4:23 pm #721839
lostcarpark
ParticipantI’m looking out a 6th floor Ballsbridge window, so I can see the crane is vertical, but can’t offer a lot more detail. It still facing away from the spike, so presumably it will shortly be turned around.
I can’t offer any insight as to when the next piece might be going up, but if I see anything, I’ll let you know!
James
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January 20, 2003 at 4:30 pm #721840
Murpho
ParticipantPaul: You obviously know a lot about erections as it took you only 2 minutes to report back ๐
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January 20, 2003 at 4:43 pm #721841
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI only have to walk 30 feet to check :p
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January 20, 2003 at 4:58 pm #721842
Anonymous
Inactiverte is saying 7.30 …
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January 20, 2003 at 5:43 pm #721843
ro_G
ParticipantGoing down for 7:30 tonight for a look myself.
Tonights forecast: Slack winds, extensive mist and fog patches, frost in places. Risk of an isolated shower. According to Met Eireann, but then again, they always say that ๐
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January 20, 2003 at 5:55 pm #721844
Paul Clerkin
Keymastersee you there ro
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January 20, 2003 at 5:56 pm #721845
LOB
ParticipantMichael Ross, I fear,has a severe case of Verbal Diarrhoea
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January 20, 2003 at 6:31 pm #721846
Niall
ParticipantNo excuses with the weather then…
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January 20, 2003 at 7:27 pm #721847
GrahamH
ParticipantI’m hoping that I will have left the city with it half finished, and to return in the morning with it fully assembled, reaching for the skies. Hoping being the key word….
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January 20, 2003 at 11:10 pm #721848
fjp
ParticipantOh well,
My camera just can’t handle that little light, so here’s the weirdest set of photos you’re going to see of an actual piece being put in place (scroll waaaay down):
fjp
(jesus – they look weird)
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January 20, 2003 at 11:17 pm #721849
ro_G
ParticipantGreat piece of action as piece 4 was slotted in, with the guy inside the tube riding up on the crane and piece 3 and 4 slotting together eclipsing the torchlight from within.
Seeing the swaying of the bucket full of bolts going up on the crane on a relatively calm night like tonight gave me much more empathy with the guys not attempting it on windier days.
Overall, cold but essential viewing ๐
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January 20, 2003 at 11:32 pm #721850
Murpho
ParticipantFJP
What can I say, you’ve been quicker than all the media in Ireland.
Nothing on RTE or any newspaper sites, but your pictures have been almost live.A big thank you for this as I am en ex-pat who is rather sadly (in an anorak sort of way) trying to follow this from The Netherlands.
Your pictures give a good impression of how the spire will look overnight too.
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January 21, 2003 at 1:45 am #721851
Anonymous
InactiveThere was good crack down there tonight, I took this clip of the tube being straightened up.
Unfortunately it’s around 2 megs, so apologies for the slow download time.
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January 21, 2003 at 2:41 am #721852
lostcarpark
ParticipantHey exceelent photos. Was down there a little after midnight, and was just in time to see piece number 5 be hoisted into place. It was quite a sight. It sure is getting tall!
Can’t wait to see the last section go up tomorrow.
James
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January 21, 2003 at 2:51 am #721853
Ebear
ParticipantJust saw piece 5 go up. I’m in Temple Bar posting. There seem to be problems with this penultimate piece. There’s still a chink of light, clearly visible from the quays, and a sound of frantic hammering from above, unlike the 4th piece which went in quite smoothly.
Assuming all is well and they close off the gap, I asked one of the guys what time the last piece is going up and he said 10 o’clock.
So turn off the alarm clock, Paul.
See you there.
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January 21, 2003 at 7:24 am #721854
ro_G
Participant10am – hmmm – best go to work so ๐
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January 21, 2003 at 8:27 am #721855
Rory W
ParticipantI heard that section 5 had to be taken down again for cleaning and that it would be going back up at 10 this morning with the final sections going up about 12 – anyone else here this
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January 21, 2003 at 8:36 am #721856
Murpho
ParticipantAccording to RTE (Who’s news site is terrible) the cleaning of the 5th section has already happened and it is now back in place and the final section will be erected at 10am.
Can’t find any pictures anywhere of how O’Connell St looks now.
FJP it seems that your services are required again!
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January 21, 2003 at 8:44 am #721857
ro_G
Participantwas down there at 7:30 this morning. They had the wrapping off the final ‘long section’ and were giving it a good cleaning. Also, it looked as if they had already hoisted up the bolts to secure the final sub assembly. SIAC told me hopefully up for 10-ish. The tai-chi guys merely hummed.
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January 21, 2003 at 8:55 am #721858
PaulC
ParticipantAre the Tai Chi guys there every morning or was it just this morning? It gave the whole thing a mystical feel.
Looks very impressive. I wish I worked in the city centre. -
January 21, 2003 at 9:07 am #721859
GregF
ParticipantTai Chi …..aka The Falun Gong crowd are there every morning and your right it does give a new age religious feeling…..almost mystical, esoteric, etc.,,,,, Michael O Nuallain aka ‘bonkers’ on the radio now on Morning Ireland complaining about it but even he has admitted, biting tongue and all that it looks good, sounds pissed as well; members of public too are asked what they think of it…the replies are all favourable.
Here’s to the Spire….
I heard some ejit too has suggested calling it the Brian Boru Spire……oh dear! -
January 21, 2003 at 9:44 am #721860
ew
ParticipantI can’t make it for 10. No fair! Should be a national holiday. Anyway it was looking great at dawn this morning. The finish is brilliant.
Watching the guys polishing the section on the ground with what looked like brasso, I noticed there’s a round side vent about 10cm diameter which protrudes a couple of cms. It’s located near the green tempory collar. You can see the collar at
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/spike-030115-14-tip-detail.jpg
Any ideas what it’s for? I guess I won’t be able to see it again anyway but I’m curious.
Also, I’ve heard theres to be a red aviation light on the tip. How whould this be mounted?
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/spike-030115-21-tip-detail.jpg
You’re right about the Tai Chi – there were tv lights behind them and they looked like statues sillouetted on the street. Like the famine memorial gone wrong. Wish I had a camera with me.
For any expats out there – 2fm (ryan show) are doing live coverage which should be available streaming on web.
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January 21, 2003 at 9:49 am #721861
ED209
ParticipantSue, are you from Clontarf? lol
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January 21, 2003 at 9:55 am #721862
Murpho
ParticipantSo what is the latest?
Is section 5 installed or not?
Is the crane still erect?
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January 21, 2003 at 9:55 am #721863
ro_G
ParticipantYes and yes.
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January 21, 2003 at 9:59 am #721864
Murpho
ParticipantGreat, so it looks like it will definitely be finished today.
Thank heavens for this site. It appears to be the only source of info on the progress.RTE & Newspapers have dated info and worst of all Dublin City Council have no updates at all.
You’d think they could have put a webcam on the GPO or from Clery’s?
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January 21, 2003 at 10:03 am #721865
Niall
ParticipantFrom Ireland.com
Dublin Spire to be completed this morning
Last updated: 21-01-03, 09:30The sixth and final section of the Dublin Spire is to be lifted into place this morning as engineers take advantage of the calm weather in the capital.
A spokeswoman for Dublin Ctiy Council said work would be completed at 10.00 a.m.
The Spire on O’Connell Street at daybreak this morning
The fourth and fifth sections were installed overnight after strong winds, which had hampered efforts to complete the job yesterday, eased.
When complete, the Spire will rise 120 metres from its two-metre-wide base opposite the GPO on O’Connell Street. This is seven times the height of the surrounding buildings and twice as high as the capital’s tallest building, Liberty Hall.
The first section was lowered into place by Europe’s biggest crane on December 18th. However, the break for Christmas holidays and intermittent high winds have slowed further progress.
The lowest section of the stainless steel monolith is swathed in a plastic covering, which will be removed when construction on securing the base is complete.
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January 21, 2003 at 10:09 am #721866
lostcarpark
ParticipantPassed close by this morning, and it looks great. Unfortunately you can barely see it from Ballsbridge at the moment. The crane stands out, but the spike get’s lost in the mist.
Did you notice how every news report suddenly started picking up on “Europe’s biggest crane” around the same time?
James
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January 21, 2003 at 10:37 am #721867
GrahamH
ParticipantMy secret shame, I was watching Questions & Answers last night, and suffice to say when the issue of the Spire arose, the usual hacks spun out the usual crap. Out of the 5 panelists & a 60 person audience, the grand total of 1 proclaimed to be in favour of the project. Comments included the usual:
“We could fund 40 hospital beds with 4 million”
“Disgraceful expenditure of public funds when people are homeless in the streets”
“At a time of cutbacks, to be spending this amount…”
“It dosn’t even connect with the people with a basic viewing platform”
And blah blah blah blah blah.
The only opposing view came from presenter John Bowman!, who suggested that we sell all the paintings in the National Gallery and spend the funds on the Health Service, at which point everyone became strangely meek…..
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January 21, 2003 at 10:57 am #721868
Rory W
ParticipantAh sure we could burn the book of kells as well, that could keep a homeless man warm for the night
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January 21, 2003 at 11:01 am #721869
ro_G
ParticipantGood man John Bowman! And I’m sure the same sceptical folk interact with those painting on a daily basis themselves. Point well made.
And as for the question of building something that people can climb up upon and view the city …
having it as a viewing tower would be terrible in my opinion.
1. Do we really want huge queues all day down O Connell Street. Not a good idea, especially with tram queues, a non-pedestrianed street, and the retail tenants.
2. Tawdry stalls hawking awful replicas, ashtrays and tshirts to queuers.
3. Theres feck all to see apart from the Dublin Mountains. And you can see them better by going to Sally Gap. -
January 21, 2003 at 11:03 am #721870
ro_G
Participantsome audio reports here from RTE
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0121/spire.html -
January 21, 2003 at 11:05 am #721871
dpower
Participantwe already have a viewing tower- the Smithfield chimney, or the guinness sky lounge.
wanting to ascend the spire is a little primative.
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January 21, 2003 at 11:08 am #721872
Niall
ParticipantDublin has two viewing towers already.. Jameson’s and Guinness, these do the job.
I think putting one up in the middle of O’Connell Street would have been very passรยฉ
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January 21, 2003 at 11:08 am #721873
ew
ParticipantLatest news report says that final section will be lifted “within next hour” completed at 11:30
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January 21, 2003 at 11:18 am #721874
DaM
Participanthow come there wasnt the same amount of outrage when the 20% social housing scheme was scrapped?????…
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January 21, 2003 at 11:21 am #721875
Rory W
ParticipantBecause we are a nation of small minded folk who care when it suits us – if you want to solve the crisis in health/homeless etc etc you will have to pay more tax.
And you try finding out who wants less money to take home….
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January 21, 2003 at 11:23 am #721876
ro_G
Participantlooks like the baby crane has started moving
http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm -
January 21, 2003 at 11:24 am #721877
GrahamH
ParticipantOne of the best views of the Spire is from outside Easons looking north (towards it). It’s starkly modern, sleek and unadorned profile contrasts spectacularly with the exquiste detailed frieze and fluted columns of the GPO, the overall vertical emphasis being particularly stunning, esp in the dazzling sunshine, which highlights the stone relief.
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January 21, 2003 at 11:40 am #721878
GrahamH
ParticipantAt last! RTE’s environment correspondent Paul Cunningham has got his act together. Sweeping pompous journalistic attitudes to one side, he openly expressed his opinion of the Spire at 7.10 this morning on Morning Ireland. In the first positive comments of the scupture expressed on RTE Television & Radio, he described the wonderful play of light on the steel at different times of day, arguably the most charming, yet most neglected aspect of the Spire, also mentioning it’s radical, yet elegant design and the spectacular impact it has on the Street.
With between 400,000 – 500,000 people listening, it can only have had a positive effect on public opinion. Keep it up Paul!(RTE is keeping an OB unit on the Street all day so coverage should improve, as it appears to have done over the past 48 hours)
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January 21, 2003 at 11:51 am #721879
ew
ParticipantIt’s being lifted in to place now !
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January 21, 2003 at 11:56 am #721880
GrahamH
ParticipantYaaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m up to the top floor, and then over to the Street.
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January 21, 2003 at 12:05 pm #721881
ro_G
ParticipantThey’ve added a second more spire-centric picture on ireland.com
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January 21, 2003 at 12:10 pm #721882
ew
ParticipantJust in time – well done (finally) ireland.com
Ian richie has been on the radio and answered my previous question about the aviation light. There has been a temporary light attached to the top of the spire. Within 2 weeks the internal light will be installed, wired up, and pullyed into place and the temporary light can go as the block light will serve.
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January 21, 2003 at 12:27 pm #721883
Murpho
ParticipantWell , from what I can see on the webcam it looks like the final piece is in place. Brilliant.
Listened to an interview with the City Manager on Morning Ireland who stated that the costs of The Spire at รขโยฌ4.5m represent about 1% of the total budget for the regeneration of O’Connell Street. Found that really put things into perspective, should stop the whingers and begrudgers now!
So who’s going to be the first to put pictures up?
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January 21, 2003 at 12:28 pm #721884
ro_G
Participantand she’s there! Wahey!
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January 21, 2003 at 12:32 pm #721885
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantThe historic moment from Harold’s Cross:
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January 21, 2003 at 12:56 pm #721886
ro_G
Participantcan see the monument from the hump on Greenhills Road in Walkinstown, although not as clearly as Andrews.
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January 21, 2003 at 1:36 pm #721887
alastair
Participanthere’s a (slightly dodgy) panorama of it from north earl st. Link to a larger version below.
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January 21, 2003 at 1:59 pm #721888
lostcarpark
ParticipantGreat picture, but I’m a little worried at the angle it’s leaning to. And that kink in the middle is a rather disturbing too!
And how did that helicoptor get tangled in the crane wires?
๐
James
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January 21, 2003 at 2:28 pm #721889
alastair
Participantmy ode to tabloid style photo reportage.
btw – key humourous note of the ‘capping show – when some poor sod chose this morning’s crowded o’connell street to carry home a length of about 12 foot of 1/4 inch copper piping. his own little spike.
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January 21, 2003 at 2:46 pm #721890
iuxta
Participantpopped down to see it at lunch today and took some pics. It looks good and its great to see so many folks interested in it. You just stop and watch the other pedestrians walking with their heads facing upwards and then bumping into one another.
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January 21, 2003 at 2:48 pm #721891
J. Seerski
ParticipantAMAZING….SPECTACULAR…FANTASTIC… SURREAL…ANIMATED….AWESOME…..
And I can see it from Glasnevin. Well, it was worth the wait. One woman said that its beauty makes the Eiffel Tower look hideous!!!!!
Well that’s a new one!
J.
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January 21, 2003 at 2:51 pm #721892
PaulC
ParticipantJOKE FOR TODAY
=============
When the Spike has finally been completed you will be able to
walk down O’Connell street singing….> > > > Wait for it….
> > > > I can see Clery’s now the crane has gone
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January 21, 2003 at 2:56 pm #721893
ro_G
Participantfuppin hell – that beacon is rubbish – i presume it is temporary
love the pictures though alastair
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January 21, 2003 at 3:00 pm #721894
fjp
Participantok
My images are up. About 70 images total, but I had to rush the colour balancing so some are a bit dodgy. The order is also incorrect here and there due to a naming mess up (caused by the aforementioned rushing).
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/
fjp
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January 21, 2003 at 3:04 pm #721895
iuxta
Participantfrom lunch time today
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January 21, 2003 at 3:18 pm #721896
iuxta
Participantit really looked great in the sunshine today. I cant wait for the crane to be taken off the site so you can see it uninterrupted.
If you stand close to the base and look up, you get quite a vertiginous feeling.
One women doing it sorta staggered and tottered backwards for a few paces………before composing herself and hurrying off. -
January 21, 2003 at 3:23 pm #721897
J. Seerski
ParticipantGreat Photos lads!!!!
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January 21, 2003 at 3:40 pm #721898
Niall
ParticipantHere here,
FJP, you really provide a great service to posterity and to Dublin. These photos should be around a long time yet!
Well done!
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January 21, 2003 at 3:50 pm #721899
Anonymous
InactiveThere’s two guys in a basket now removing the collar of the last section.
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January 21, 2003 at 3:53 pm #721900
ro_G
Participantlooking forward to Paul’s photos too. Are you going to post video too Paul?
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January 21, 2003 at 4:20 pm #721901
Far Glynn
ParticipantOf course now there’s the same sense of anticipation about when the black wrapping is coming off and when are they going to light it up etc. etc… Anyone any ideas?
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January 21, 2003 at 4:35 pm #721902
Rory W
ParticipantDelighted with the applause from the crowd down there at lunchtime, quite the occasion. I feel so happy that this is finally in place.
PS That mad Ukrainian woman was telling anyone who would listen that the Spire would be down within a year and replaced with her entry – daft as a brush I’m afraid (Shes convinced shell be on the front page of the Irish Times tomorrow as well – hopefully not, they shouldn’t mock the mentally unwell).
I am really delighted – I want to celebrate!
To Quote the late Oliver J. Flanagan – F*ck the begrudgers
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January 21, 2003 at 4:49 pm #721903
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterYeah theyre up…..
Have video… but its well wobbly due to tiredness and the zoom factor.
Took well over 100 photos today. -
January 21, 2003 at 4:54 pm #721904
lostcarpark
ParticipantMy understanding is the wrapping stays on the bottom section until the work around the base is finished.
The internal lighting should be going in in the next two weeks, when the temporary beacon on the top will be removed.
James
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January 21, 2003 at 4:59 pm #721905
Ebear
ParticipantHey Paul, time for an edit:
๐
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January 21, 2003 at 5:02 pm #721906
Anonymous
Inactiveew was wondering what the vent was, turns out to be an electical outlet that they plugged the temporary red light into!
They used cable-ties to clip the cable to the led holes – ugly but it’s only for a few days.
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January 21, 2003 at 5:22 pm #721907
ew
ParticipantThanks for the info zozimus. Looks like there’s potential for adding all kinds of tempory additions in the future with the power socket and all the eyelets.
Or you could plug in a polisher if you were up there… -
January 21, 2003 at 5:25 pm #721908
Nuala Davey
ParticipantWell, I hope yer all happy now!
Talk of the death of Catholic Ireland? Building obelisks/erections whatever you want to call them in the middle of O’Connell Street? To think on our national holiday, bands of pipers and poor young children educated by the fine Irish priests and nuns’ll have to walk past that sort of thing?
What about giving the money to the Church? They’re doing a grand job for the homeless and the children of Dublin? Look at Archibishop O’Connell and all those fine priests leading by example?
I am most concerened as a mother of 7, that the money could have been used to increase my child benefit.. or my husband’s overtime in the prison service..
What a waste of money, imagine what รขโยฌ4.5 million would have got us, fine fully operated state of the art hospitals in Monaghan, operated by the North Eastern Health Board, more money to spend putting asphalt over potholes. The odd signpost pointing nowhere, don’t get me talking about the homeless…. Sure it’s loads…..
Anyway, what’s wrong with a Sean Lemass tower and a viewing platform to look over the fine street O’Connell Street is…. dirt and all?
Good night and God bless
Nuala D
P.S. ‘Ah sure it’ll do rightly.’
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January 21, 2003 at 5:41 pm #721909
ro_G
ParticipantNuala meet Greg ๐
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January 21, 2003 at 5:55 pm #721910
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterLol……
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January 21, 2003 at 6:45 pm #721911
GrahamH
ParticipantOh my God, she’s serious is’nt she?!!!
Dear oh deary me
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January 21, 2003 at 6:50 pm #721912
Anonymous
Inactivepitty there wasn’t much sun today, just wait till some full blown sunshine catches it in the days ahead …
can’t believe its finally up ! public opinion has definitely turned and will turn more once it is fully unveiled, lights and all … the applause and the taxi drivers beeping their horns was brilliant ๐
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January 21, 2003 at 6:57 pm #721913
Rita Ochoa
ParticipantNuala, your profile, dated from today, says mother of 9…
I just want to correct the number you wrote up there (YOU HAVE 9 KIDS, NOT 7)…………. -
January 21, 2003 at 7:01 pm #721914
GrahamH
ParticipantAh yes, look who all come crawling back (the entire general public). Not a single dissenting voice on Liveline, on News soundbytes, in the papers, on the Street… You have to love this country.
Walking up the central median 20 minutes after it’s completion, what a sight. I felt such a welling of pride and optimisim about the City, and the Country overall, The Spire is everything, everything, I expected, and more. I have’nt felt so excited about Dublin & it’s future for so long and its truly wonderful (albeit a niave rush to the head)
If we can build like this in the future, stimulate similar debate, use quality designs and quality materials, in an inventive an exciting way, whilst respecting, complimenting and adding to our historic city, we will be the envy of Europe.
Long may this public interest in our built surroundings continue!!!
(at least till tomorrow) -
January 21, 2003 at 7:03 pm #721915
GrahamH
ParticipantNice bit of investigative journalisim Rita!
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January 21, 2003 at 7:06 pm #721916
GrahamH
ParticipantCorrect me if I’m wrong (quite likely) but has the Spire thread been viewed 5000 times since yesterday?
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January 21, 2003 at 7:11 pm #721917
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January 21, 2003 at 7:17 pm #721918
ro_G
Participantover 20,000 views for a single thread. Wow, Paul, give yourself a pat on the back and a nice press release. And for everybody else who contributed via posting thanks for the great discussion and energy. The project wouldn’t of been the same if not for the collective passion and interest shown by the archeire community. ๐
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January 21, 2003 at 7:41 pm #721919
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThe debate surrounding this may have been daft at times, but when was the last time a project like this captured the public imagination on any level?
When was the last time thousands of people clapped and cheered and motorist beeped their horns at a building project in this country? Or any country in Europe?
Hope I’m not being overly optimistic, but this could be a coming of age for how Irish people see their built environment.
And fair play to DCC for seeing this through… -
January 21, 2003 at 7:48 pm #721920
Anonymous
Inactiveabsolutely, thanks to Paul for running this site, i’d say i check it 20 times a day!
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January 21, 2003 at 8:04 pm #721921
Rita Ochoa
Participantsame here :)… i confess I got addicted to it. 20000 deserves a celebration: we’ll do it with a nice portuguese beer here !
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January 21, 2003 at 8:21 pm #721922
lostcarpark
ParticipantHooked here too… and there’s still plenty of milegae to be had from the construction of the base.
James
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January 21, 2003 at 9:25 pm #721923
Anonymous
Inactiveoooooooohhh
i cant wait for the first thunder storm…… -
January 21, 2003 at 11:04 pm #721924
Anonymous
InactiveDublin 2004:
from pics by Peter Fitzpatrick & fjp
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January 22, 2003 at 8:20 am #721925
Paul Clerkin
Keymasternice one from Irish Times
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January 22, 2003 at 8:38 am #721926
Rory W
ParticipantAh Zozimus – you could have added the swastikas on to the Hindenberg
“Oh the humanity….”
I assume that woman (mother of 9 with 7 children appearently) saying give the money to the church to look after homeless children was a joke on someones part – if the church want money for that how about dipping into the millions that have been accrued from selling land in South Dublin (or has that gone already in paying compensation to some of the kids they “looked after”).
Oops – sorry for the Ben Elton liberal rant there. Hurray for Spires – that photo from the Times is cool. However I don’t think Starksy and Hutch will get their car roof light back from up there.
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January 22, 2003 at 8:50 am #721927
shadow
ParticipantHaving remained outside of the fray, as a competitor in the original competition and not having concluded my impressions of the spike as either incredibly banal or incredibly elegant finally I would like to add this to the onslaught of names and nomenclature for “The Spike”.
Talk of these threads got me thinking about the nature of this new “Axis Mundi” in the centre of the city. This new centrifugal condition which might even draw the elements of the city together should be renamed “The Needle”. Perhaps as a symbol of stitching, weaving, pulling the “threads” of the city and thought together it could be less violent in meaning than “Spike”.
I realise that as soon as a new name arises the punners will start with “easier to enter through the eye of the needle……” and “needle and the damage done” etc. etc.
Dublin City Council’s desire to use “Spire” is wholly unsuitable due to its origins.
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January 22, 2003 at 8:57 am #721928
Anonymous
InactiveWhen the public decides on a building’s nickname, that’s it. There’s a Norman Foster building in London dubbed “the Gherkin”. It looks nothing like a gherkin – more like a Zeppelin – but that’s its name and so it will always be called. Ditto the Spike.
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January 22, 2003 at 9:24 am #721929
GregF
ParticipantIt was great to see the round of applause from the public too as the final piece was hoisted into place….I had a drink or two to celebrate. It was and will prove to be well worth 4 million euro.
Here’s to the Spire of Dublin and curse the begrudgers and pessimists. -
January 22, 2003 at 9:32 am #721930
Luke Gardnier
ParticipantTake a bow Ian Ritchie (Architect) and like another Englishman (Jack Charlton) you have made a lasting impression on Ireland / our Capital City Dublin and like Jack you have made us look up and noticeรขโฌยฆyou must have had advice from Jackรขโฌยฆ.get it high and up and over the opposition (the sad fools).
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January 22, 2003 at 9:45 am #721931
GregF
ParticipantJesus don’t let Ciaran O hear you say that …we’re in for a tirade now about West Brits, anti Irish, pro English Empire , etc…..etc……Ah sure, god bless the poor chap.
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January 22, 2003 at 9:58 am #721932
admin
KeymasterCongratulations to Dublin and Ireland on completing the Spire!
I have followed the discussion about a new monument on O’Connell Street since an idea was presented by Shane O’Tool and given a prize on the architectural Biennale in Cracow-Poland in 1989. And the final result, as we all can see now, is a strong and fine monument which Dublin and Ireland can be proud of! “Thank you” of course to Ian Ritchie Architects, London; but also a great “Thank you” to the Dublin City Architect, Jim Barrett for the job he and the Dublin City Council has done for the Spire.
May this day give inSpiration to further fine Urban Design in Dublin, Ireland and the rest of Europe! -
January 22, 2003 at 10:50 am #721933
fjp
Participant -
January 22, 2003 at 10:54 am #721934
urbanisto
ParticipantUgggh get rid of those tower blocks!
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January 22, 2003 at 10:55 am #721935
ro_G
Participantshould be the next big public construction spectacle …. the explosion of the towers
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January 22, 2003 at 11:07 am #721936
Niall
ParticipantI have to laugh at the begrudgery…
From today’s Indo
Not everyone agreed. “I’ll give it a week before it blows over and flattens somebody,” sniffed a passing local.
At least we’re a funny nation.
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January 22, 2003 at 11:10 am #721937
lostcarpark
ParticipantIt was looking amazing from Ballsbridge a little while ago, with the sunlight glinting off it… Oh, sun’t back out. Cool!
Looking forward to the completion of the base, and the addition of the lighting.
Will there be an official “turning on” ceremony, or will we just walk down O’Connell Street and find it all lit up? Surely some big name politician will want to cut the ribbon and press the on switch and make a speech about how he supported it all along.
And the next day the Times will dig out a comment he made in 1999 about what a bad idea it was… ๐
James
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January 22, 2003 at 11:19 am #721938
MaximusColumnus
Participantmy. what a big spike that is.
nah, it is impressive (and I admit I thought it was going to be crap but I agreed that something had to be done). Now, can we still put gay byrne on top of it? ๐
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January 22, 2003 at 11:24 am #721939
-Donnacha-
ParticipantFrom todays IT:
“The Lord Mayor of Dublin, Cllr Dermot Lacey, said yesterday he was hoping
to be asked to unveil the Spire officially in the weeks ahead. He was one of
14 Dublin city councillors who voted against the monument when it was put to
the council for a decision in 1999. But he has now changed his tune and
looks upon it as “something brave we wouldn’t have done 20 years ago”.
“The atmosphere here was fantastic when the last section was put in place,
and I was a bit surprised by that,” he said. “But Dubliners seem to have
really rallied around it, and I think it will now become a focal point for
the city. I touched the top of it just before it went up, just so I’ll
always be able to say ‘I touched the top of the Spire'”How about the Lord Mayor? He even voted against it
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January 22, 2003 at 11:34 am #721940
Murpho
ParticipantWell I think it would be great.
It really seems that people who were originally against it are now getting behind it now that it is a reality.
It appears that the begrudgers are becoming a cranky minority -
January 22, 2003 at 11:39 am #721941
urbanisto
ParticipantWhat does he mean he was hoping to be asked? He’s the bloody Lord Mayor for godsake….shouldn’t he be a bit more clued up about any unveiling ceremony than this!
Get rid of this Lord Mayor/ City Manager and give me a democratically elected Mayor who at least knows what’s going on at the DCC!
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January 22, 2003 at 11:46 am #721942
GregF
ParticipantLet’s hope this will pave the way with the going ahead of other such large scale projects that would greatly benefit the city and nation.
The proposed National Conference Centre, The National Stadium, the Metro, Caltrava’s second and more spectacular bridge on the Liffey, etc….which were once either met with complacency or shot down….by the ignorant. -
January 22, 2003 at 12:25 pm #721943
redeoin
ParticipantApparently the ‘would someone think of the trees’ crowd will be attaching a giant yellow ribbon to it, and the lord mayor will delicately cut this ribbon off with a chainsaw, to the sound of bulldozers revving their engines to the tune of ‘at the dark side of the street’.
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January 22, 2003 at 12:26 pm #721944
redeoin
ParticipantI mean, i think its brilliant, and I can’t wait for the rest of the street to be developed pronto.
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January 22, 2003 at 12:35 pm #721945
lostcarpark
ParticipantYeah, and if the Abbey moves into the Carlton, and the fast joints can be persuaded to tidy up their image, the whole street could look amazing.
Anyone know when the plaza is due to be finished (or even started)?
James
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January 22, 2003 at 1:08 pm #721946
emf
ParticipantGood reaction in the Irish Times today!!
At last, Dublin sees the point of the Spire
By Conor LallyThousands of people watched the final capping of Dublin’s Spire as improved weather conditions allowed the final piece to be put in place with the help of a large crane. The reaction of the onlookers to the replacement of Nelson’s Pillar was largely positive.
In contrast, more than four weeks ago the installation of the first section of the Spire proved every inch the damp squib.
Only a few hundred onlookers gathered in the freezing cold on December 18th to watch as the first of six sections was put in place. And most of those assembled had little or nothing good to say about the capital’s newest piece of street furniture.
But yesterday, as the final section of the 120-metre structure was installed the mood could not have been more different. Thousands flocked to O’Connell Street to witness a bit of history. And, when the finished Spire was freestanding just after 12.30 p.m., a massive cheer went up.
The Spire’s designer, Mr Ian Ritchie, was in town for the final construction phase yesterday and said he felt sure his creation had been welcomed by Dubliners.
“When the spontaneous applause happened it was really wonderful. I felt that people had adopted it. It was a warm moment. It felt great, just fantastic,” he said.
The award-winning London architect said when one section had to be taken down during the construction phase because its installation mechanism had become clogged with dirt it was an “electric moment”.
“We knew that it worked, because obviously we had tested it. But when you get that far and a section has to be taken down you just hope everything is going to go OK. One never knows what can go wrong.”
The Lord Mayor of Dublin, Cllr Dermot Lacey, said yesterday he was hoping to be asked to unveil the Spire officially in the weeks ahead. He was one of 14 Dublin city councillors who voted against the monument when it was put to the council for a decision in 1999. But he has now changed his tune and looks upon it as “something brave we wouldn’t have done 20 years ago”.
“The atmosphere here was fantastic when the last section was put in place, and I was a bit surprised by that,” he said. “But Dubliners seem to have really rallied around it, and I think it will now become a focal point for the city. I touched the top of it just before it went up, just so I’ll always be able to say ‘I touched the top of the Spire’.”
Cllrs Tony Gregory TD and Royston Brady (FF) were also there to witness the last of the Spire being guided home. Mr Gregory said the scepticism of many Dubliners now seemed to have dissipated.
“I would say what Brendan Behan would say about the begrudgers, but I know the readers of The Irish Times wouldn’t appreciate language like that,” he said.
Mr Paul O’Kelly, from the Coombe, marked the moment in the traditional Irish way. Just after the Spire was complete he ran to Trader John’s pub in Moore Street, ordered four pints of Guinness and brought them back to some of the workers on the site.
“There’s always been a touch of eccentricity about Dublin life, and I thought it was an appropriately mad gesture to get the guys a few pints,” he said. “Guinness has always been a symbol of Dublin so hopefully in that respect the drink and the Spire will go together in years to come”.
Mr O’Kelly’s father, Kevin O’Kelly, reported for RTรโฐ on the “unofficial demolition” of Nelson’s Pillar in 1966. “There still exists black-and-white footage of him on this site at the time, so it’s a special day for me.”
A Moore Street trader, Ms Sarah Kearns, said she thought the Spire was “all right”. “We got the Bertie Pole instead of the Bertie Bowl,” she said. “It’s a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be.”
Mr Gary Franklin from Beaumont said he thought the Spire was “a good idea”. “It’ll get a lot of tourists to the north side of the city. What I like most about it is is that it’s built where four streets meet. There’s lots of space around it. It’s not enclosed anyway, so you can see it from a lot of places. It suits the area very well.”
Dublin City Business Association yesterday congratulated Dublin City Council on the successful completion of the Spire of Dublin.
“The Spire of Dublin is a modern piece of public art that reflects not only the beginning of the restoration of Ireland’s main street but is a symbolic expression of a modern Ireland facing the future with confidence,” it said in a statement.
“It is now time to create new momentum to complete the plaza between Clery’s and the GPO at the earliest date,” it added.
รยฉ The Irish Times
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January 22, 2003 at 1:15 pm #721947
urbanisto
ParticipantOriginally posted by lostcarpark
Yeah, and if the Abbey moves into the Carlton, and the fast joints can be persuaded to tidy up their image, the whole street could look amazing.Anyone know when the plaza is due to be finished (or even started)?
James
The section from the Spike to Abbey St by end 2003, the section from Abbey St to the Bridge by end 2004 and the final section to the Parnell monument by end 2005
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January 22, 2003 at 2:11 pm #721948
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterO man thats slow…. why not do the Parnell street to GPO section now?
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January 22, 2003 at 2:39 pm #721949
urbanisto
ParticipantToo logical….
What about the rest of the IAP plan. The proposed revamp for Westmoreland St and D’Olier St and some much needed attention to Malborough St. There’s no reason why it can’t be started asap…no reason why it hasnt already started!
I wrote to the Project Manager for O’Connell St when the issue of the trees was in the news. She sent me back that schedule…. no so much as a trace of embarrasment about the fact it would take 10 months to pave a section of the street from Abbey St to the Bridge!
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January 22, 2003 at 2:42 pm #721950
ro_G
Participantdoes that timeframe include laying track for Luas?
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January 22, 2003 at 2:51 pm #721951
urbanisto
Participantyes I think so….but come on how long does it take to lay some track across the width of the street. The underground substation is already being built (or excavated) and wasn’t Luas meant to be live by end of this year. I know its been delayed but surely this had been factored in to meet the 2003 deadline.
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January 22, 2003 at 3:03 pm #721952
GregF
ParticipantI hate the delay folks too …I would love to see it all complete as soon as possible……but I just thought there that maybe it appears slow cause they have so to complete all the infrastructural work first which would involve as we see digging up the whole street etc… Much better to get it all done rather than digging up again the newly paved foothpaths and streets….which seems to be a forte of theirs most of the time.
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January 22, 2003 at 3:37 pm #721953
Far Glynn
ParticipantWhy is the crane still up?
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January 22, 2003 at 3:47 pm #721954
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterCos the beacon has to be taken off the top when they fit out the internal electrics.
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January 22, 2003 at 3:48 pm #721955
Far Glynn
ParticipantThey must be doing that very soon then!
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January 22, 2003 at 3:58 pm #721956
GrahamH
ParticipantOn the News yesterday, Paul Cunningham said it would be illuminated in 7 days (the tip) There has been no progress as yet on it’s floodlighting, mounted on the 4 corner buildings though.
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January 22, 2003 at 4:06 pm #721957
lostcarpark
ParticipantThat does seem a rather slow schedule. Will the plaza run the whole length of the street? I was only expecting it for the area around the spire and in front of the GPO. Are there plans to prevent or restrict northbound traffic from using the street?
James
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January 22, 2003 at 4:08 pm #721958
GrahamH
ParticipantWe’ll see the claims pouring in now from people falling and tripping over, as they were too busy looking upwards!
I have never seen so many people smirking and smiling around the city centre. Walking in any direction away from the Spire, every single person coming towards you is looking up, smirking, and making wry comments regarding the IRA and other more provocative remarks, then of course proceeding to crash into you.
It’s brilliant! But still, mostly all you can hear passing by is positive, positive, positive:
“It’s incredible, how did they do it?” “Beautiful finish isn’t it” and “They’ll have some job cleaning that huh huh huh ” etc -
January 22, 2003 at 4:13 pm #721959
urbanisto
ParticipantJames – you should go to the City Council site and view the plans or better still http://www.reflectingcity.com
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January 22, 2003 at 4:14 pm #721960
GrahamH
ParticipantThe plaza is just outside the GPO, however the entire street is being repaved, and the pavements widened, as well as the central median overhauled. You can buy the
O’ Connell Street Integrated Area Plan in Dublin bookshops for the princely sum of
20 euro, which I did in ignorance of part of it being 5 years out of date. But the paving and general plan is still relevant. -
January 22, 2003 at 4:21 pm #721961
urbanisto
ParticipantGosh, 20 yoyos Graham…are you mad! The wonder that is the web is made for such things.
The Reflecting City site more or less says it all and the DCC can send you on their newsletters. You probably have loads of nice pics though….
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January 22, 2003 at 7:25 pm #721962
GrahamH
ParticipantYep, very nice. Don’t worry though, I had to buy it for research and for videoing, ie ripping off copyright, it’s pictures, for a documentary mentioned 558 posts ago in the very first post on this thread. Reading it now is quite amusing, ignorance is bliss. The whole bloody thing has to be re-edited now to take account of the Spire! I’ve been waiting for it to be finished for three months now!!!!!
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January 22, 2003 at 7:30 pm #721963
ro_G
Participantis the the documentary for TG4 Graham?
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January 22, 2003 at 7:33 pm #721964
GrahamH
ParticipantIf only! A mere college project I’m afaid (although using the best of equipment!) I’m hoping to have it shown on the Ntl channel when I get around to finishing it & contacting them.
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January 22, 2003 at 7:34 pm #721965
ro_G
Participantcool, look forward to that. if you fancy doing an archeire preview i can swing a projector and a room in town.
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January 22, 2003 at 9:06 pm #721966
fjp
ParticipantOn an interesting note, I received a mail today from the offices of Ian Ritchie Architects. They asked me to pass on their thanks to everyone on this forum, and said they found the discussions very entertaining.
And of course they mentioned that it’s not over yet:
part 1 – the form is now there
part 2 is the top lighting
part 3 is the bronze base
part 4 the mirror pattern at the bottom of the base and the lighting emanating from the below ground chamber.I’d almost forgotton, but we really do have plenty of good stuff to come.
fjp
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January 22, 2003 at 9:09 pm #721967
ro_G
ParticipantIs Mr. Ritchie bringing us for a pint after part 4 then? For sticking up for him, yknow ๐
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January 23, 2003 at 10:02 am #721968
GrahamH
ParticipantThe very least he can do, he owes us big time!
I’ve just seen the most spectacular view yet of the Spire, coming in on the train this morning over the northern viaduct that passes through Stoneybatter and that area, into Connolly. The sky was full of grey clouds but the dazzling sunshine was coming in from the east, making the Spire light up like a beacon, it turned almost completely white, with a dazzling silvery tinge. And it stood there, alone, towering above the vast tracts of the terraced Victorian houses that streched out as far as the eye could see. Spectacular!!!
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January 23, 2003 at 10:31 am #721969
dpower
ParticipantI came in from Kildare this morning- you can see it as far away as the naas road- and that was with the early morning mist- needed to see the crane to get a bearing on it though!
The sun was just coming up and hitting it- really quite spectacular. Will probably be able to see it from even further at night when the lights go up.
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January 23, 2003 at 10:56 am #721970
lostcarpark
ParticipantI was cycling along the quays, from the Ringsend direction last night, ant it really looked impressive, even without the lighting. THe red beacon shone on top, but there was enough light hitting the spire to make it stand out. Its height is really something else, though. And it will look absolutely fantastic when the lighting is finished.
James
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January 23, 2003 at 11:00 am #721971
PaulC
ParticipantGraham – I saw that also. It look really white – very impressive. I saw it from the DART between Tara St and Connolly this morning at 7:30am.
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January 23, 2003 at 11:28 am #721972
urbanisto
ParticipantThats nice to think our deliberations have been followed by Ian Ritchie & Co…. and maybe even Jim Barrett and his gang have had a look in.
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January 23, 2003 at 12:21 pm #721973
Rory W
ParticipantI too saw it from the loop line bridge early this morning – it looked amazing as the sun was only rising and the sky was a uniform navy colour. It really looked like a beacon!
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January 23, 2003 at 4:21 pm #721974
GrahamH
ParticipantI mean from further back, coming in from Clontarf & into the city, but it does look brilliant from the Loop Line Bridge as well, its a great talking point for everyone on the train (or rather for eavesdropping on other people’s conversations)
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January 23, 2003 at 4:23 pm #721975
ro_G
Participantlooked incredibly white from Greenhills Road.
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January 23, 2003 at 4:39 pm #721976
GrahamH
ParticipantAll along, I’ve taken it as being 120m, and that’s stated by all ‘official’ sources, but I heard a construction worker on the site say to a passer-by that it’s 125m. Any definite figure anyone? Presumably he got it wrong, but he could have been in the know…
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January 23, 2003 at 7:44 pm #721977
GrahamH
ParticipantIn my experience, I’m interested to note that I have’nt come across a single young woman who is in favour of the Spire, yet all older women seem to love it, whereas all young men think its fantastic and older men think its the stupidist thing they’ve ever come across. Anyone notice similar patterns?
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January 23, 2003 at 11:18 pm #721978
Anonymous
InactiveEmail currently doing the rounds …
Given Ireland’s success at rigging internet votes, we could help our tourism trade by fixing it for us to get listed as a new 7th wonder of the world. This website offers you the opportunity to participate in the first internet vote to elect the New 7 Wonders of the World The candidates already include Petra, Machu Picchu, and the Eiffel Tower.
Sadly, Ireland doesn’t get a look in. But visitors to the site can send in their suggestions. If we can get the BBC to name ‘A Nation Once Again’ as the worlds’ greatest song, then surely we can get ‘the Spike’
listed as one of the 7 wonders of the world too!so go to the following link :
http://www.new7wonders.com/suggest_nominee.php
enter your details amd place the following text in the suggestion box :
The Millennium Spire, Dublin, Irelandand off we go again…………………………
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January 24, 2003 at 9:18 am #721979
GregF
ParticipantGood one Pete ….Come on, let’s all vote for the Spire……and have it up there with ‘A Nation Once Again’…….heh heh!
Good one Graham, If Freud was here he would no doubt relate it all to sex ……penis envy and fear on behalf of the young women, aspirational on behalf of young men, jealousy on behalf of old men who can get it up no longer, and Sex mad older women who’ve seen it all before and just can’t get enough!
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January 24, 2003 at 11:02 am #721980
lostcarpark
ParticipantIs just me or is the crane being taken down? I noticed it in the “kneeling down” position earlier, but I can’t see it at all now.
I was expecting it to stick around for a couple of weeks so they can take down the temporary beacon when the internal lighting goes in.
Anyone know any better?
James
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January 24, 2003 at 12:35 pm #721981
sherrioverseas
ParticipantWell Graham, GregF, as far as gender-based patterns in opinions of the spire – what exactly do you mean by “old”?!
I certainly favor the way it catches evening light, disappears in the middle once the sun has gone down, and currently has a little glowing red light floating at the top.
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January 24, 2003 at 12:51 pm #721982
GregF
ParticipantIt’s just a bit of banter.
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January 24, 2003 at 6:20 pm #721983
sherrioverseas
ParticipantJust wondering if I still qualify as “young” – especially since most of the gentlemen I have talked to on the street wear tweed caps and have “come into town”!
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January 24, 2003 at 6:34 pm #721984
GrahamH
ParticipantBe whatever you want to be, this is the internet!
The crane has just gone asleep, there’s no point keeping it up for a week, until the beacon is has to be removed.
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January 24, 2003 at 7:47 pm #721985
Anonymous
Inactivejust noticed that camvista have adjusted their camera to take in the full height of the spire, refreshes every five seconds so its pretty good…
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January 24, 2003 at 9:00 pm #721986
lostcarpark
ParticipantThe crane has more than gone to sleep… the lower half is lying along the street, and the upper half is in pieces. I agree there’s no point in keeping it up for a week, but I would expect if they still needed it they would keep it in the “kneeling” position that it was in over Christmas, and the other times the project was idle for weeks.
I’m guessing that they’ve got a cheaper way of getting the beacon off when they’re finished with it.
A very long stick, perhaps?
James
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January 25, 2003 at 12:38 am #721987
GrahamH
ParticipantOh, I did’nt know it was part dismantled, very unusual…
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January 25, 2003 at 12:41 am #721988
GrahamH
ParticipantOH, LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, I’ve just become a senior member, oh the pride! The privilige! Better brush up on my grammer! Oh I’m made up over this!
-
January 25, 2003 at 11:05 am #721989
lostcarpark
ParticipantWell done, Graham.
It would seems to suggest that the crane is finished with.
I presume that doesn’t mean they’re leaving the beacon up permanently, and they have an easier/cheaper way of removing it.
James
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January 25, 2003 at 2:19 pm #721990
GrahamH
ParticipantVery odd, I can’t think how they’ll take it down. A construction worker told me it will take 2 weeks to dissassemble the crane and move it off site.
But who cares! I’m a Senior Member! I’m a Senior Member! To think I’ve reached these dizzying heights, being on a par with the Old Masters like fjp and Greg F…. Oh the honour!!!
-
January 25, 2003 at 5:18 pm #721991
notjim
Participanti won’t get too excited graham, i’m a senior member too and i never have anything memorable to say.
so here is my favourite story about how everyone has changed their opinion about the spike, for some reason i was home on friday and had joe duffy on and some people were ringing in giving out because gavin friday had pulled an inflatable spike between his legs at the brown thomas fashion show and waved it in an suggestive way, anyway joe encouraged people to ring in with their views, was the shocking or harmless fun, who knows, but all the phone calls were from people who wanted to know were they could buy inflatable spikes.
the answer, by the way, is that the inflatable spike gavin friday pulled though his legs was a bespoke creation made by the point prop department and, according to the times, the image of the spike belongs to ian richie, but he, lovely man, is giving it a “spire trust” which will license these things and give the profits out in grants to arts groups and so on.
-
January 25, 2003 at 5:38 pm #721992
kefu
ParticipantAnd thus is laid to rest that last remaining reason to bitch about the Spire … its รขโยฌ5 million price tag.
The Irish Times estimates that millions more will be made from selling images and models of the Spire. I would cut and paste text in here but their site is very slow today.
Maybe the profits can be spent on the homeless or on hospital beds. Or better still, on more grand projects like the Spire. -
January 25, 2003 at 6:37 pm #721993
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterMore grand projects is my preferred option.
The Spire was stunning this morning, went down to photograph it without the crane in the background. It looks unreal in bright light, like a CGI rendering.
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January 25, 2003 at 7:20 pm #721994
ro_G
Participanti would have thought some of the monies raised would have to go towards maintenance of the Monument itself.
Spire souvenirs could raise millions for city cultural events
Dublin City Council is expected to raise millions of euro from the sale of miniature models of the Spire when the copyright for the structure transfers from the architect to the local authority.
A spokeswoman for the council said yesterday that the copyright was currently with the Spire’s architect, Mr Ian Ritchie, but would be handed over to the council “in a matter of weeks”.
Following suggestions by Mr Ritchie, city authorities are looking to establish a Spire Trust, a committee which would oversee the funds raised from any souvenir tie-ins from the monument, such as postcards, fridge magnets, paper-weights or pens.
The spokeswoman said proceeds from the sale of any such merchandise would be “ring-fenced” to support cultural events in the city.
“The details have not been finalised, but it is expected that people could make submissions for funds from the Spire Trust for an event, and each submission would be viewed on merit,” she said.
Mr Ritchie told The Irish Times he was happy to transfer the copyright but believed it was important that a trust be established.
The architect has indicated to Dublin City Council that he expects to sit on the trust as an honorary life member, along with members of the city council, another architect, representatives from the arts sector and a businessperson from the O’Connell Street area.
“This is something I insisted on right from the start,” he said. “I’ve heard all the arguments about the waste of money, but this means something can accrue to Dublin and Dubliners from the Spire that will be worth millions in the long term.”
All merchandising profits, he added, should go towards community development and charities.
The Spire architect has also suggested that any souvenir items be selected by a design panel, to include either himself or a nominee of his choosing who would serve on the panel as a life member.
The first monies to be forwarded to the trust are likely to come from a film, co-funded by Dublin City Council, on the making of the Spire.
– Not sure of source on this one
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January 26, 2003 at 1:03 pm #721995
PaulC
ParticipantThere is a poll in Ireland.com today (sunday 26 Jan) asking is the Spire a welcome addition to Dublin.
So far 77% say yes – pretty decisive i would say. -
January 26, 2003 at 3:24 pm #721996
GrahamH
ParticipantVery interesting. This must go down as being the greatest turnaround in public opinion ever.
Considering the last piece was installed last Tuesday, and it was said it would take 7 days to illuminate the tip, does it mean we’ll have it lit in 2 days time? I doubt it somehow…
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January 26, 2003 at 5:35 pm #721997
Anonymous
Inactivethe view from tallaght , used fjp’s trick with the binoculars …
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January 26, 2003 at 9:46 pm #721998
fjp
ParticipantYay Cheap Zoom Methods!!!!
Care to identify the steeples/chimneys in between??? And I’ve been out of date with my directory due to serious work issues at the moment. Nothings getting done except office then home (home being rare indeed).
I’d like to also encourage other zoom photographers to give us those strange distance shots…
fjp
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January 27, 2003 at 8:10 am #721999
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantThe church steeple is the second tallest spire in the city, the Augustinian church on Thomas Street.
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January 27, 2003 at 11:01 am #722000
lostcarpark
ParticipantConsidering the last piece was installed last Tuesday, and it was said it would take 7 days to illuminate the tip, does it mean we’ll have it lit in 2 days time?
I thought it was two weeks…
We’ll find out tomorrow, or whenever it happens.
What I want to know is how they plan to get the beacon off without the big crane. The best idea I’ve heard so far is getting the army to shoot it off!
James
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January 27, 2003 at 11:11 am #722001
GregF
ParticipantI’d say they’ll use a great big super stretch cherry picker to get that beacon off the top and also to maintain the Spire from time to time.
Is’nt technology great this days and is’nt it great what some people can do……I bet the New York Fire department has even taller ladders to stretch into the sky than our Spire here. -
January 27, 2003 at 11:17 am #722002
ew
ParticipantI think there should be a little spire climbing robot commissioned for the cleaning job. Nice project for any mechanical eng students out there…
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January 27, 2003 at 11:21 am #722003
Rory W
ParticipantSpeaking of backtracking – one of the columnists in that rag that is Ireland (Mail) on Sunday has apologised for ranting about the spire and now admits it’s a welcome addition to Dublin – more revisionist history. Should the Lord Mayor, who voted against the Spire originally, be allowed to preside at the official launch?
Graham welcome to the league of Senior members, you now qualify for use of the executive washroom and a lifetime’s supply of oxygen.
-
January 27, 2003 at 11:54 am #722004
GregF
ParticipantWe should hang the present Dublin Lord Mayor from a Judas Tree with the likes of other such meely mouths, back-stabbers and cut-throaths etc….that take a long time and some amount of cajoaling in order to see the light.
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January 27, 2003 at 12:10 pm #722005
sw101
Participanti’m gonna use this forum because everybody reads it it seems. whats ones opinion of the work of glenn murcutt? i ask because he will be giving lectures and workshops at bolton street d.i.t over the next few days. exciting stuff, or is it?
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January 27, 2003 at 12:11 pm #722006
GrahamH
ParticipantYaaayyy! Thanks Rory!
The comments made in 1965 about the completion of Liberty Hall are remarkably similar to that of the finished Spire. From the Irish Builder:
‘An inspiring monument’ ‘A truly contemporary architectural composition’ ‘Under the changing skies of our climate, at night lighted up, or in the daytime, it always looks handsome, when seen against the blue sky with white clouds sailing over’
Uncanny. At least today, they’re actually true.
-
January 27, 2003 at 12:40 pm #722007
Anonymous
InactiveCare to identify the steeples/chimneys in between???
yep, the church spire is the augustinian church on thomas street like andrew said and the chimney to the left is in the grounds of crumlin hospital, part of the heating system (afaik !)
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January 28, 2003 at 10:30 am #722008
GrahamH
ParticipantTheres a brilliant view of the Spire from outside Arnotts, as all of the red brick Victorian & Edwardian buildings down Henry Street, with their elaborate dutch gables, decorative brick and terracotta, contrast so well with it’s sleek profile.
The Spire is having another positive effect on Dublin as, for the first time, Dubliners are being encouraged to look up, above shop/ground floor level, and now hopefully will begin to appriciate the rich architectural heritage they pass by, unheedingly, everyday.
-
January 28, 2003 at 11:56 am #722009
Ebear
ParticipantDear Member of the New 7 Wonders Society,
Dear Citizen of the World,Thank you for your response and we are acting on your suggestion.
In the meantime, I would like to reaffirm that the aim of our
balloting is not to replace the list of the original 7 Wonders
of the World but to revive after over 2000 years the spirit of
the great architectural and engineering achievements chosen by
Philon of Byzantium around 200 BC.With this in mind, proposals such as the Gizeh pyramids in Egypt,
the Internet itself, the MIR space station, the bay of Rio de
Janeiro and so on, do not really fit into the central theme.
These ideas will be saved for future world voting projects such
as the 7 Technical Wonders and the 7 Wonders of Nature.I am taking the opportunity of the launch of the redesigned and
upgraded new website (please click on http://www.n7w.com) to
address a personal word to you: For more than two years now,
this unique global voting initiative has been financed by myself,
the founder of N7W, and some private individuals who believe in
the value of this project. So far we have spent more than half a
million Euros (almost the same amount in Dollars). Encouraged by
the universal acceptance of this mission, I would like to see
this platform develop further as a totally independent and truly
democratic effort to establish a new form of global community.
For this reason I invite everyone to make a contribution by
supporting this effort with a donation of the equivalent of
?/US$ 10.00 or more.http://www.n7w.com/e-card.php?ecard=1
All those who participate with a donation at this stage will
become official life-long patrons of the New 7 Wonders of the World.
Each one will receive a certificate from N7W and be recognized as
a patron with his or her name “engraved” in our commemorative wall
on the N7W website.Once again, I thank you for your time and consideration and the
opportunity to realize this vision together.Sincere regards
Bernard Weber
Founder New 7 Wonders Society & FoundationOf course, that’s no reason not to keep on voting ๐
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January 28, 2003 at 2:06 pm #722010
GrahamH
ParticipantWow, can’t belive the crane has gone already, they got to work on that fast.
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January 28, 2003 at 2:19 pm #722011
Niall
Participanthas the proper lighting been installed then and the racky red light taken down?
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January 28, 2003 at 6:01 pm #722012
Anonymous
Inactivedoes look like the red light is gone alright, take it they must be planning to turn on the main light soon ? not really safe having no light at all ….
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January 28, 2003 at 6:39 pm #722013
GrahamH
ParticipantNope, the light is still there, passed only this afternoon. Hav’nt a clue how it’ll be taken down though.
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January 28, 2003 at 6:41 pm #722014
J. Seerski
ParticipantI heard that because of cutbacks, the red light is here to stay……..!!
Joke…..
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January 28, 2003 at 7:07 pm #722015
fjp
Participantdon’t want to spoil the fun, but wouldn’t it make more sense for them to leave it on till the very end, and then have a big “look at the pretty lights” thing on the “opening” day…
“fjp”
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January 28, 2003 at 7:23 pm #722016
Anonymous
Inactiveyeah was thinking that too fjp, cause if they turn it on now, there’ll be nothing left to unveil at the official opening ! (whenever that will be)
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January 28, 2003 at 11:53 pm #722017
lostcarpark
ParticipantYou would think so, alright. Though there will presumably have to be some testing of the internal lighting before the grand opening…
The red light definately isn’t switched on tonight. I have no idea why not.
How necessary is the beacon anyway? The only aircraft that flies over the city at night is the Garda helicoptor, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it get as low as 120m.
James
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January 29, 2003 at 1:39 am #722018
Barney
ParticipantWas lucky with the weather two days last week and got some shots of you-know-what!
http://www.lib-lab.com/pages_spire/the_spire_1.html -
January 29, 2003 at 9:50 am #722019
lostcarpark
ParticipantNice!
Looking forward to more pics when the lighting goes in!
James
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January 29, 2003 at 10:08 am #722020
Desmund
ParticipantBrilliant Pics Barney!
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January 29, 2003 at 10:12 am #722021
Murpho
ParticipantSo Lads. is there any activity at the site at all?
Is there work being done on the base?
Any news on the official launch? -
January 29, 2003 at 10:26 am #722022
GregF
ParticipantYep …the area is being cleared for the paving to begin…..I saw some slabs there ready to be laid.
-
January 29, 2003 at 11:40 am #722023
Far Glynn
ParticipantFrom the Irish Independent website:
Dublin’s Millenium Spire has gone out of the spotlight – temporarily at least. High winds last night ensured that the bulb on top of the 120 metre monument was put out of action at around half past 6. The aviation authority was informed of the breakage, and a Dublin City Council spokesperson has confirmed that it will be a few days before the ‘Pole in the Hole’ will be casting light on us again. -
January 29, 2003 at 12:04 pm #722024
GrahamH
ParticipantAh, that explains it. Nice view of it from the top of Kildare St, looking over Trinity.
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January 29, 2003 at 1:40 pm #722025
-Donnacha-
ParticipantAnyone would think Dublin was plagued by low-flying daredevil pilots, what with all these aviation lights on ‘tall’ structures. How tall does a building have to be to require a little red light? I’d hope a pilot would realise he was swooping down into the middle of the city centre long before he spotted the light on top of the Spire!
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January 29, 2003 at 4:23 pm #722026
fjp
ParticipantI’ve been gone with stupid all-night work for ages now, but here’s some snaps I managed whilst passing by last weekend.
The soon to be classic angle:
And another 11 or so shots have been added to the web directory
fjp
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January 29, 2003 at 7:37 pm #722027
karl
Participantso… how will they change the bulb??
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January 29, 2003 at 7:56 pm #722028
Rita Ochoa
ParticipantI have no idea of it’s size but can’t you go up trough internal stairs ?… If not, maybe an helicopter + a very good driver flying it ๐
So many pics of the spike fjp… Are you japanese?!
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January 29, 2003 at 8:06 pm #722029
Anonymous
Inactiveafaik the light is only about 70 metres up with the beam shining upwards, thousands of small holes covering the top twelve metres will let the light out … the internal ladder will enable access to that height …
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January 29, 2003 at 8:24 pm #722030
Rita Ochoa
ParticipantProbably someone already wrote it but can you tell me who designed it ?
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January 29, 2003 at 8:26 pm #722031
CTR
ParticipantWhy has the little red beacon gone dark? Its obviously still up there but hasnt been lit since early yesterday. Poor little beacon. He didnt last very long!
Are the Corpo gonna give the spike a clean before its officially unveiled? The steel is far from stainless at the moment…
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January 29, 2003 at 8:31 pm #722032
CTR
ParticipantI see after reading a few pages back that my question was already answered.
Anyway, was talking to an engineer on the site last week sometime and he said that its actually 124m and not the much publicised 120m. Is that true? I guess he would know.
4m is 4 m!! Thats a whole extra storey!
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January 29, 2003 at 10:37 pm #722033
GrahamH
ParticipantAnother ‘engineer’ on the site told me it was 125m!
And for the 65th millionth time, the bulbs (or rather LEDs) will be changed via an internal pully system that lowers them and their sockets to ground level inside. The ladder only goes up as far as a man can fit (although if the Victorians had their way, it would go up to the width of a four year old)
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January 31, 2003 at 11:56 am #722034
colinsky
ParticipantOriginally posted by J. Seerski
I heard that because of cutbacks, the red light is here to stay……..!!well, they need some way to mark dublin’s red light district. ๐
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January 31, 2003 at 12:59 pm #722035
bluefoam
ParticipantHow are they gonna veil it to unveil it. It will probably cost another 3.5m in brown envelopes to veil the thing.
How many times can you say veil in one post.
-
January 31, 2003 at 1:01 pm #722036
bluefoam
ParticipantYes the red light acts as a beackon to draw people from miles around, you can even see it from Fitwilliam Square.
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February 1, 2003 at 3:17 pm #722037
sw101
ParticipantHERE WE GO AGAIN!!
after all, it IS the tallest sculpture in the world!!!
Given Ireland’s success at rigging internet votes, we could help our tourism trade by fixing it for us to get listed as a new 7th wonder of the world.
This website offers you the opportunity to participate in the first
internet vote to elect the New 7 Wonders of the World The candidates already
include Petra, Machu Picchu, and the Eiffel Tower. Sadly, Ireland doesn’t get a
look in. But visitors to the site can send in their suggestions. If we can get the BBC to name ‘A Nation Once Again’ as the worlds’ greatest song, Then surely we can get ‘the Spike’ listed as one of the 7 wonders of the world too! so go to the following link :
http://www.new7wonders.com/suggest_nominee.php
enter your details amd place the following text in the suggestion box
:
The Millennium Spire, Dublin, Ireland
and off we go again………………………… -
February 1, 2003 at 3:58 pm #722038
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOh not again…..
Seen this morning from the Eastlink toll bridge
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February 3, 2003 at 10:09 am #722039
-Donnacha-
ParticipantFrom Dorset Street this morning, it looks like the crane is back! Is this possible? (I don’t have nifty digi-cam to offer photographic evidence…)
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February 3, 2003 at 10:14 am #722040
lostcarpark
ParticipantI drove down O’Connell Street and there’s a great big yellow crane there. Not as big as the other one, but still pretty huge.
I would love to know what’s going on… seems like overkill for changing a bulb!
James
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February 3, 2003 at 11:39 am #722041
Far Glynn
ParticipantThat mystery crane is fully extended now and doing stuff – what, I can’t make out…
look: http://www.camvista.com/ireland/dublin/liffey.php3 -
February 3, 2003 at 12:15 pm #722042
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThey are repairing the temporary aviation light. They do not expect the permants lighting to be operational before next week.
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February 3, 2003 at 12:16 pm #722043
urbanisto
ParticipantThey must be getting to work on the internal lighting and the final finish…. I wonder what the timeframe is for it all.
Still on O’Connell Street – has anyone seem what type of street furniture will be included on the street. I think we has some wierd fuzzy mockups of kiosks but what about lighting etc?
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February 3, 2003 at 2:38 pm #722044
bluefoam
ParticipantThe current recycling bin clusters on O’Connell St are a disgrace. The stickers look like they came free with the Beano. I pray they are only temporary. It is a disgrace to produce such cheap tack for our capitals main street.
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February 3, 2003 at 7:47 pm #722045
karl
ParticipantBluefoam you are right. The recycling bins look an eyesore. But then the whole street is an eyesore. tacky is a very apt expression for the whole street. It has been criminally mis-managed down through the years. Who would allow at least six fast food outlets to open on their country’s main thoroughfare in any other country? maybe the spike will serve as a distraction to the destruction.I dont yet know what to make of it and I think it would be unfair to treat it as a completed project until all the surrounding works have been finished including the LUAS works.
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February 4, 2003 at 10:01 am #722046
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThe official launch is not likely to take place until mid-March at the earliest, according to the Times. And the red light couldn’t be fixed last night due to high winds.
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February 4, 2003 at 10:08 am #722047
GregF
ParticipantThey could coincide it with the Paddy’s Day festival…..make a big thing out of it for Jasus sake. Get the army band out of the barracks too to play a few tunes and camailes.
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February 4, 2003 at 10:29 am #722048
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI believe theyre planning to from the stories I’m hearing.
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February 4, 2003 at 11:52 am #722049
-Donnacha-
ParticipantAs Homer Simpson might say – Woo Hoo!
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February 4, 2003 at 9:54 pm #722050
Anonymous
Inactivethey should relocate the annual fireworks display to the site of the spire for the launch, the o’connell street, henry street, north earl street axis could easily accommodate the numbers that head down to the quays to see the fireworks every year, the refletions on the spire would be fantastic !!!
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February 5, 2003 at 1:32 am #722051
lostcarpark
ParticipantWell, the light bulb has been changed, and the crane carted off again. Presumably it will be back when the internal lighting has been finished to take the beacon down again…
James
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February 5, 2003 at 9:06 am #722052
GregF
ParticipantAye Pete, a firewoks display too around here as well as the one down the docks on St Paddys Day would be ideal, and especially launched from the top of the GPO too. Could be visually spectacular.
Would give ’em some practice too to get the ‘New Year’ celebrations for the city in order. -
February 5, 2003 at 4:44 pm #722053
Lemon
ParticipantThe Spike won’t be finished until the dampers are tuned. Anyone know when that might be?
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February 5, 2003 at 10:25 pm #722054
JL
Participantsaw an interrsting plywood mock-up of one of the proposed kiosks yesterday – don’t know if it’s still there – looked good
-
February 5, 2003 at 11:59 pm #722055
lostcarpark
ParticipantCool. Where?
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February 7, 2003 at 10:00 am #722056
GrahamH
ParticipantThe concrete plinth for the cast bronze base has just gone in. Youcan see the gap between the concrete & the Spire where the light is to come up through (Friday 7th)
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February 7, 2003 at 2:26 pm #722057
fjp
ParticipantWell that plynth sounded interesting enough, and I went down at lunch for a general looksie….
Another 13 images of Mr. Shiney!!!!
scroll down down down down down…
fjp
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February 7, 2003 at 2:44 pm #722058
GrahamH
ParticipantAnd a City Wift!
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February 7, 2003 at 2:52 pm #722059
GrahamH
ParticipantThis is post 601
(I’m verrrrrrrry bored)
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February 7, 2003 at 3:34 pm #722060
lostcarpark
Participant -
February 9, 2003 at 12:50 am #722061
Anonymous
Inactivethe light is out again !
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February 9, 2003 at 1:41 am #722062
lostcarpark
ParticipantYeah, I was in O’Connell Street ten minutes ago, and it’s off. It was working earlier this evening.
James
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February 9, 2003 at 12:14 pm #722063
Anonymous
Inactiveyeah its back on again now, don’t know what happened …
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February 9, 2003 at 5:36 pm #722064
sherrioverseas
Participantor an antenna for a giant remote control bus
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February 18, 2003 at 5:04 pm #722065
Murpho
ParticipantHey what’s happened to this, the star thread of Archiseek?
Anyhow, any activity by the site? Is there work on the plate and paving in progress?
Any news on an official launch (Can’t help thinking of images flying through the sky like a rocket when I write that!)?
Ta very muchly.
-
February 18, 2003 at 5:13 pm #722066
-Donnacha-
ParticipantMurpho, check out the last Jpeg posted on the Photoshop Fun thread….
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February 18, 2003 at 9:18 pm #722067
Anonymous
Inactiveanyone see nationwide last night ? did a feature on the construction of the spire and gave a glimpse of the pattern on the base section, how it was conceived etc. worth a look …
anyone interested can watch it here!
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February 19, 2003 at 10:42 am #722068
Desmund
ParticipantOn behalf of expats everywhere, many thanks!
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February 19, 2003 at 11:20 am #722069
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterHugh Pearman’s take:
Mystic monument: Ian Ritchie’s Spire of Dublin.
A monument, so says the dictionary, is anything that preserves the memory of a person or event. But it adds that a monument can be anything that is considered an object of beauty. Right then. On both counts, architect Ian Ritchie’s 400-foot high stainless-steel needle, recently erected in the centre of Dublin, is a monument. And a singularly interesting one.
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February 20, 2003 at 9:36 pm #722070
GrahamH
ParticipantThere’s a lot of activity around it’s base, the concrete supports for the cast bronze base are in, and metal grids of some discription are going down, could be the bronze itself, it’s difficult to tell. Nothing else happening though. No paving slabs etc.
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February 21, 2003 at 9:07 am #722071
GregF
ParticipantSee that they are considering calling it the Sword of Light…..which is’nt bad I supppose….but the use of the word sword refers to a ‘weapon’ which I suppose is’nt very PC today…..An Cleadamh Solais os gaeilge from Padraig Pearse. Sure the spire does’nt have a blade either.
Also Chrisy Burke of Sinn Fein is vouching for Padraig Pearse’s Pillar, how bloody corny and some other goons are on for calling it the just as bloody corny Brian Boru spire.
Imagine naming a monument after someone or something who/which was’nt even in the designer’s thoughts when it was first conceived.
For me the Plain old ‘Spire Of Dublin’ or ‘Spire of Light’ or ‘Monument of Light’ or even the ‘Dublin Spire of Light’ does the job….just like the plain old ‘Eiffel Tower’ in Paris. -
February 21, 2003 at 9:14 am #722072
shadow
ParticipantNeither sword nor spire the ongoing problem with nomenclature is worrying. Even now the idea that this is a monument does injsutice to monuments everywhere. I particularly like the german for Monument, “Denkmal”, which contains the roots of Denken and Mal, thinking (or memory) and Times. Monuments are a repository of memory and as such carry with them some echo of that which the memorialise. If this “thing” crries memory, then that memory is a very poor thing, hollow and shallow. To ascribe the word monument to this is a weak attempt to raise its profile within what is rapidly becoming a poor critical environment where you have to either love or loath it.
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February 21, 2003 at 9:22 am #722073
ew
ParticipantNews talk have been reporting that a short list of names has been drawn up and a decision is expected (later today?).
The list they gave is
-sword of light
-monument of light
-brian boru something
-padrig pearse pillarWhat’s that all about? The news report gave no details. Who decides the name? (They?) Any comments I’ve read from ian Richie would surely rule out the boru/pearse suggestions. I presume he has some input into it…?
It was looking particularly good this morning by the way. I’m delighted to note that it still causes me to smile – the novelty has not worn off!
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February 21, 2003 at 9:22 am #722074
GregF
Participantaye….monuments are tombstones or gravestones so as to remember the dead.
The ‘Dublin Spire of Light’ it is then. -
February 21, 2003 at 9:24 am #722075
Rory W
ParticipantThe Spire of Dublin will do me just fine too. Sinn Fein shouldn’t get a look in on the naming process since (a) they were opposed to it in the first instance being from “the Hospital beds and VD clinics” brigade and (b) they (or their buddies) are the philistines who blew up the pillar in the first place!
Here’s a bland nomination of my own – The Robert Emmet Tower – it’s his bicentenial this year you know!!!
PS that’s a joke – please stick with the Spire of Dublin
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February 21, 2003 at 9:42 am #722076
urbanisto
ParticipantWhat a load of old cobblers… why not just stick to the plain old simple Spike! Or Spire of Dublin if you have to…
All this Padraig Pearse crap…. enough with the 1916 memorials. And as for Brian Boru…please! Where did that one come from. Its so twee.
All these wonderful city councillors with loads to say on the Spire…. SORT OUR POTHOLED FILLED STREETS OUT INSTEAD IF YOU NEED SOMETHING TO DO! -
February 21, 2003 at 10:54 am #722077
kefu
ParticipantIt’s coming from a piece in the Irish Mirror this morning, which says:
City Architect Jim Barrett says finding the right name is a ‘difficult task’.
‘It is important to come up with something that suits everyone, that’s what makes it hard.
‘We aren’t really considering anything new. All ten of our suggestions are sure to be have been heard by the public already.
‘They all revolve around honouring people from history or focusing on the light emitting powers of the structure.
‘We can’t say which is the favourite because we are still in discussions.’Barrett also said derogatory names would obviously not get a look in.
He said: ‘The ones we hear every day like the Pole in the Hole have not been put forward in an official capacity.
‘This is a monument for everyone to be proud of and we are taking the issue of naming it very seriously.
‘Some people are quite annoyed that such a prestigious project is being given mock names.
‘The committee is due to meet again next week and we hope to have more or less come to a decision by then.
‘We will be having an official unveiling ceremony in a few weeks but we are waiting for the area around it to be tidied up first.
‘The light fitting is now being tested in the UK and when it is ready and the building rubble is gone, we will be ready for the grand opening.’Ian Ritchie still feels the Monument of Light is the appropriate name. I agree and can’t understand why it would be changed now. Also, I think the reality is that it will forever be known as the Spike and I don’t think any naming ceremony will change that.
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February 21, 2003 at 11:01 am #722078
kefu
ParticipantFound first piece of tatty merchandise to take advantage of our Sword of Light
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February 21, 2003 at 11:18 am #722079
lostcarpark
ParticipantHmmm… somehow I don’t think that’s officially licensed merchandise. You might get away with peddling a t-shirt with a grey wedge, as that could be anything, but putting Spire in the name of the item is a dead givaway!
Remember folks, only buy official merchandise so the profits go to other arts projects.
James
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February 21, 2003 at 12:55 pm #722080
GrahamH
ParticipantSo much for the 2 weeks to install the lighting. Ah well, the anticipation makes it more exciting.
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February 21, 2003 at 1:14 pm #722081
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by StephenC
What a load of old cobblers… why not just stick to the plain old simple Spike! Or Spire of Dublin if you have to…
All this Padraig Pearse crap…. enough with the 1916 memorials. And as for Brian Boru…please! Where did that one come from. Its so twee.
oh yes, there’s so many memorials to them isnt there Stephen! (name a couple will you please)
Oh and Rory W, you’d prefer to still have Nelson on O Connell street? (philistines! ha!)
I suppose the government were philistines removing vicky’s staute too!I prefer the name as it is, for what its worth.
C.
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February 21, 2003 at 1:27 pm #722082
GrahamH
ParticipantHere we go again…
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February 21, 2003 at 1:32 pm #722083
fjp
ParticipantSeriously though. If you’re going to create a memorial to Pearse/Brian/whoever, you announce that you’re creating a monument to them and then construct it.
What you don’t do is build a monument and then tag a name on the end. That’s just silly…
Official name: The Spire (of Dublin).
Fun name: The Spike.
Cutesy-Wutesy name: Spikey Wikey. (?)fjp
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February 21, 2003 at 1:46 pm #722084
GrahamH
ParticipantGot it in one, or rather three.
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February 21, 2003 at 2:03 pm #722085
Niall
ParticipantI’d agree with Ritchie, Monument of Light! When the lights are eventually (big stress here) put in place, we should be able to see why!
Poltical monuments should be commissioned as such, if the authorities want a Brian Boru memorial, build it in Clontarf! I’d agree with it! Put Padriag Pierce in GPO or Rathfarnham. But, don’t hijack something else and put a name on it for the sake of it, it was designed as a focal point of light and height for the rejuvination of dirty old O’Connell Street….
As for Victoria in Dun Laoghaire, that is a fact of history, don’t see a problem refurbishing it. It’s part of the town’s architectural heritage.
On another note…..
Please, please, no more political or personal bashing! Everyone has the right to political views, whatever they may be, we live in a democracy, however this just isn’t the board for it…..Have a good weekend all!
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February 21, 2003 at 2:12 pm #722086
Murpho
ParticipantI agree , this name calling is ridiculous.
If they want to rename it they should consider
“The Fudge from the Judge” in light of all the court cases!
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February 21, 2003 at 2:15 pm #722087
urbanisto
ParticipantA monument to Brian Boru is twee…it has no relevance to modern Ireland whatsoever. I bet most people couldn’t tell you the first thing about Brain Boru past the the Battle of Clontarf…and even there their knowledge would be hazy and inaccurate.
As for Pearse – well there is a beautiful Pieta for Pearse at his grave in Glasnevin and their is also St Ednas as a less militaristic legacy. As for 1916 – we done all this to death in 1966. You have the GPO itself with its plaques and statue and gaudy friezes; a Garden of Remembrance; various plaques on a variety of sites around the city.
Lets get over it…. it’s 2003. lets just enjoy art for arts sake rather than sticking a tacky moniker to it. -
February 21, 2003 at 2:19 pm #722088
CiaranO
ParticipantJust an opinion graham, no need to be so touchy! ๐ its friday!
and as I said I like the name that’s there already! So I never said it should be called the pearse pillar or anything like that! I only said the (here we go again) STephen C post was boring predictable stuff…and asked for evidence to the contrary- I think (as Niall agreed) that there should be a more prominent monument to pearse and the others in or around the GPO, not just some plaques…instead of the typical ‘oh enough of 1916 already, ‘its like, so, Oirish’ drivel Stephen puts here…
Niall, I meant the statur of Victoria that was in College green area (i think)…sorry bout that.
FJP – I think it will forever be known as the spike to the public and the name picking is a waste of time….
not sure bout spikey-wickey though! ๐
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February 21, 2003 at 2:29 pm #722089
Rory W
ParticipantNo Ciaran O – I wouldn’t prefer to have Nelson there in particular – I wiould have liked him to have been replaced in a civilised manner with something more suitable. Demolishing the whole thing was a loss to Dublin. We rightly condemn the Taliban for destroying statues, why shouldn’t we condemn republicans?
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February 21, 2003 at 2:30 pm #722090
GrahamH
ParticipantInteresting that as a result of the removal (blowing up?) of Victoria in College Green, Dublin is the only European city without an equestrian statue.
Still, we’re also the only city with 396 foot Spire!
Touche.
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February 21, 2003 at 2:34 pm #722091
urbanisto
ParticipantActually the statue on College Green was of William III. A statue to Victoria was on the city side of Leinster House but was removed in the 1940s and left in storage somewhere. In 1988 the Government gave it to Sydney to commemorate the Bicentennial.
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February 21, 2003 at 2:35 pm #722092
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by Graham Hickey
Interesting that as a result of the removal (blowing up?) of Victoria in College Green, Dublin is the only European city without an equestrian statue.Still, we’re also the only city with 396 foot Spire!
Touche.
you mean touchy? ๐
well Rory, the reason is I support the removal thats why. As you do, and Im sure many others, If it wasnt done by them Im sure it probably would still be there, and I think youll agree that if it was done in trhis day and age it would be somewhat different to it being done back then it that climate.
anyhow I didnt want to speak of politics just the fact that Im happy with the name of the spike, but theres no need to be so revisionist on this site! christ, if I were a stranger to Ireland and came on here Id be under the impression that everythign thats grat about Dublin (mostly what ppl speak of) is british, and that we should keep every remnant of britishness as sacred. Then if someone mentions 1916 in anything but negative tones, theyre shot down!
Thats my final word on it…Ill stick to the bricks n mortar now (or preferably glass and steel :))
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February 21, 2003 at 2:37 pm #722093
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by StephenC
Actually the statue on College Green was of William III. A statue to Victoria was on the city side of Leinster House but was removed in the 1940s and left in storage somewhere. In 1988 the Government gave it to Sydney to commemorate the Bicentennial.cheers thats the one I was thinkin of. better suited to the aussies methinks…
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February 21, 2003 at 2:42 pm #722094
urbanisto
ParticipantIt looks quite good where it is – outside the Q Vic Buildings appropriately. But its not a very flattering likeness…I can’t imagine her being very impressed by it. Which begs an interesting question… what would some of our other notables think of their statues. Would Wolfe Tone like his long, spidery look on the Green, or Thomas Davis be impressed by his on College Green complete with rubbish strewn not working fountain, or Mr O’Connell with his pigeon shit covered head?
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February 21, 2003 at 2:44 pm #722095
GregF
ParticipantIn 1966 there was no need to blow up Nelsons Pillar. But that’s the IRA for ye….cultural ambassadors…Not!
By right the bureaucrats should have removed and replaced the statue of Nelson with a statue of Wolfe Tone who was afterall a Dub and the founding father of the Irish Republic. All references to Nelson and the empire should have been removed too and replaced with references to Wolfe Tone and Democracy. In that way the pillar could have remained as part of the street and statue of Wolfe Tone could have been cast in a classical manner in keeping with his time and the plinth of the pillar. But no, that would have beyond the comprehension of the people of the time.
Anyway here’s to today, the times we live in now and the Spire of Dublin. -
February 21, 2003 at 2:45 pm #722096
CiaranO
Participantjust found this on the wellington monument…..
“The testimonial obelisk in the Phoenix Park, 205 feet high (designed by R. Smirke), to commemorate the victories of Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington (1769-1852), was erected in 1817.
It was originally intended to erect an equestrian statue on a pedestal beside the monument, – but this intention has been abandoned, and the pedestal has been removed”I know there used to be another equestrian statue at the mansion house, but this would have been more impressive im sure had it been built.
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February 21, 2003 at 2:47 pm #722097
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by GregF
In 1966 there was no need to blow up Nelsons Pillar. But that’s the IRA for ye….cultural ambassadors…Not!
By right the bureaucrats should have removed and replaced the statue of Nelson with a statue of Wolfe Tone who was afterall a Dub and the founding father of the Irish Republic. All references to Nelson and the empire should have been removed too and replaced with references to Tone and Democracy. In that way the pillar could have remained as part of the street and statue of tone could have been cast in a classical manner in keeping with his time and the plinth of the pillar. But no, that would have beyond the comprehension of the people of the time.
Anyway here’s to today, the times we live in now and the Spire of Dublin.I concur. perhaps the city manager (was there one at the time?:)) should have had a meeting with the ‘lads’ before and arranged for just the top section to be removed….better than asking the ‘army’ to do it, and a lot cheaper…
C.
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February 21, 2003 at 2:55 pm #722098
Niall
ParticipantPersonally I think the corpo had a lot to answer for, the pillar was up 44 years after independence 1922-1966, with the Admiral up there, why didn’t they re-name it.. the Dublin Pillar and take him down……..?
Not that i agree with the ‘IRA’/Army blowing it up.. Corpo being lazy as usual… usually takes em 44 years to do anything…
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February 21, 2003 at 3:11 pm #722099
GrahamH
ParticipantEven so, with all the city’s attachments to the pillar and want it mentto the people of Dublin etc, I’m glad it is gone from a purely asthetic point of view. It was the 19th century’s Hawkins House, a ghastly stout cumbersome doric pillar, that was grossly top heavy, further exacerbated by the addition of double height railings/protective caging in the 20th century.
It’s base being a terrible Stalinist block of stone the size of a 3 bed-semi, unadorned, and hugely out of scale with the Street,
and wasn’t a patch on the elegant slender profile of London’s corinthian Nelson Column, which was exquisitly scaled & decorated.I remember now Stephen C about William, from that painting in the Ntl Gallery, of the Volenteers on College Green, where was the statue of Victoria?
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February 21, 2003 at 3:17 pm #722100
urbanisto
ParticipantWhere the plinth is now in front of Leinster House. It used to be a semi formal garden until the cars came along…..
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February 21, 2003 at 3:20 pm #722101
GrahamH
ParticipantNo sorry, the equestrian statue.
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February 21, 2003 at 3:29 pm #722102
Niall
ParticipantHow is the work progressing on the base and lights anyway?
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February 21, 2003 at 3:34 pm #722103
-Donnacha-
ParticipantIt might have been wise to dedicate the pillar to someone else, but where do you stop this architectural revisionism?
People seem happy enough to keep the name for the Wellington Monument without feeling their Irishness under threat.
Funny how we haven’t had a sustained campaign of blowing up old Brit postboxes by the IRA since independence. Presumably they don’t mind using them to send letter bombs.
By the way, I can’t get them smiley face things to work when I want to show I’m half-joking…! -
February 21, 2003 at 3:34 pm #722104
urbanisto
ParticipantGraham – the equestrian statue was of William III and was where the Thomas Davis statue is now…opposite Ulster Bank on College Green
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February 21, 2003 at 4:36 pm #722105
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by AndrewP
It might have been wise to dedicate the pillar to someone else, but where do you stop this architectural revisionism?
People seem happy enough to keep the name for the Wellington Monument without feeling their Irishness under threat.
Funny how we haven’t had a sustained campaign of blowing up old Brit postboxes by the IRA since independence. Presumably they don’t mind using them to send letter bombs.
By the way, I can’t get them smiley face things to work when I want to show I’m half-joking…!thats a shame Andrew becuase i half expect one after every post :);)
anyhow, I think some people may have a dislike of wellington (mostly if not exclusively for his horse/stable comment) but i think youll find attitudes toward a(n) (irish born) character of that sort would differ to those toward th british monarch and King William….
*No smileys*
C.
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February 21, 2003 at 4:44 pm #722106
lostcarpark
ParticipantBack when Michael Collins was being filmed there was a mockup of Queen Vic on a horse in the middle of Dame Street (made of ply-wood).
I agree with people here, use Richie’s name. It is utterly silly to build a monument, then decide what it’s a monument to.
James
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February 21, 2003 at 6:29 pm #722107
GregF
ParticipantThat paintng of College Green in the National Gallery I think has the statue of William of Orange which used to be there and who’s garbed in Caesar attire.
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February 21, 2003 at 7:06 pm #722108
Anonymous
InactiveThe Eiffel Tower analogy is apt, not because it is a similar structure, but because everyone has forgotten its original political purpose: to commemorate the centenary of the French Revolution.
Even when it was being designed and built, it was referred to as the Eiffel Tower.
But the “Ritchie Tower”? Can’t see that sticking. Dublin Spire or Spike is probably how it will remain, whatever official tag gets put on it.
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February 22, 2003 at 1:57 am #722109
ro_G
ParticipantThe Spire is what does it for me. Especially seen as the construction itself was such a major piece of discussion and public spectacle and it went under The Spire moniker during that time.
It somehow cheapens the whole construction process and the energy and passion that was evident in this thread for them now to be bandying around names by committee. I imagine Ritchie feels the same.
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February 22, 2003 at 4:16 am #722110
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by Graham Hickey
Interesting that as a result of the removal (blowing up?) of Victoria in College Green, Dublin is the only European city without an equestrian statue.Still, we’re also the only city with 396 foot Spire!
Touche.
Just for you a chara….
C.
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February 22, 2003 at 4:54 pm #722111
GrahamH
ParticipantGod I can’t belive my ignorance, thats what it was, the Michael Collins film statue on Dame St! I knew there was one of her somewhere, sometime in the city,! I remember hearing about it now
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February 22, 2003 at 4:59 pm #722112
GrahamH
ParticipantI know this is the Spire thread, but just to say there’s a very fine and virtually unknown statue of Albert (Victoria’s other half) to the rear of Leinster House, excecuted by John Henry Foley, maker of O’ Connell Monument, and is in a similar style but smaller. Nice it didn’t suffer Victoria’s fate round the front.
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February 22, 2003 at 5:57 pm #722113
CiaranO
Participanti take it you dont approve of the mock-up?;)
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February 22, 2003 at 6:17 pm #722114
CiaranO
ParticipantOriginally posted by Graham Hickey
I know this is the Spire thread, but just to say there’s a very fine and virtually unknown statue of Albert (Victoria’s other half) to the rear of Leinster House, excecuted by John Henry Foley, maker of O’ Connell Monument, and is in a similar style but smaller. Nice it didn’t suffer Victoria’s fate round the front.The bronze statue of Prince Albert in Leinster Lawn was erected in 1872 and there WAS an (unsuccessful) attempt to blow it up in the same year.
not sure many know or care of its existence now, but quite a great example of foley’s work.
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February 22, 2003 at 11:45 pm #722115
pvdz
ParticipantI think the ‘Spire of Dublin’ sounds awfully Church of Irelandy and twee. Its a hunking great 100 and something metres of stainless steel with a perforated light emmiting tip, so lets just leave it ‘the spike’ please.
When I hear spire it paints a picture of steeplejacks and broomsticks and Mary Poppins films by a warm hearth.
But ‘the Spike’ is more abstract and brutal with more allusions to art & sculpture than built form.
Its also what everyone has felt compelled to call it all along, except some of the media who have tried to tame(refine) it by calling it Spire. I dont think it would fit the piece really and now it has been built we shouldnt have to be so coy anymore. -
February 23, 2003 at 12:34 pm #722116
lostcarpark
ParticipantGood point about “the Spire”. Richie’s original name was “The Monument of Light”, which think describes it more aptly.
Of course it will always be the Spike, but I can’t see anyone recognising this officially.
James
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February 23, 2003 at 6:07 pm #722117
GrahamH
ParticipantSpike is just fine, there is always an official level that cannot accept such casualness, which is fair enough, and we must also accept this. To be frank, we’d be more of a laughing stock, rather than thought of as being laid back, internationally if it were called the Spike on an official level.
Ciaran O, when a renouned architect criticised Liberty Hall, quoting: ‘the frippery on the roof being a slap in the face to the dome of the Custom House’, now I know what he ment!
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February 24, 2003 at 12:33 pm #722118
GrahamH
ParticipantThe last segment of the doughnut encircling the Spire’s base is being inserted as I speak/type (12.15), still can’t see properly to acertain whether its the cast bronze base, or just it’s supports.
Interestingly the whole central median of the northern end of O’ Connell St stretching from the Spire to the Gresham has just been pressure washed in anticipation of the base’s unveiling/Patricks Day, the only bit of foresight the CC has shown in recent times, and admittedly, I never thought crude concrete slabs could look so fine, (albeit for 6 months) esp in contrast with the grotty uncleaned ones, they’re a dazzling white, Portland stone colour and act as a surprising lift to the whole Street, esp in the sun.
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February 24, 2003 at 12:55 pm #722119
Papworth
ParticipantA notable name for the spire would be to call it after the Dubliner who planned what we know largely as Dublin city…..who’s vision has never been equaled only barbaricaly destroyed since and never will be equaled ………Luke Gardiner …as a matter of fact there should be a Luke Gardiner week every year to educate and promote the legacy of the greatest planner and developer this city ever had.
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February 24, 2003 at 1:32 pm #722120
Murpho
ParticipantWhy would a piece of metal stretching over 120 meters into the sky be a relevant tribute to Luke Gardiner?
So by your reckoning it would be ok in a few years the rename the Molly Malone work at the bottom of Grafton St the ‘Mary Harney’ monument. Maybe also they could rename the whole street by replacing the ‘C’ in O Connell with a ‘D’ and turn it into an Irish music theme park?The fact of the matter is that the Spike was not designed as a tribute to anyone in mind and was simply an architectural work of art.
Just stick with the Spire of Dublin or Monument of light, and all this Brian Boru, Luke Gardiner, Bono, Dustin etc be put to bed.
I mean if you became famous in your city for something would you like to your name to be enshrined by the Spire? Of course not, monumental tributes to people should be in the form of a recognisable statue. painting or picture, not a piece of architecture that was originally designed for other purposes.
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February 24, 2003 at 1:47 pm #722121
Papworth
ParticipantMurpho, well debated…..but leaving the Spire aside …..as we have a Blooms week ..any thoughts on a Luke Gardiner exhibition and week of walks and lectures ? …99.99% of Dubliners only have heard of Gardiner as in Street… his plans and work should be taught to every kid in school… a great and visible introduction to architecture and planning for young minds.
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February 24, 2003 at 2:44 pm #722122
Rory W
ParticipantSpeaking of plans – did anyone see the Abercrombie feature in Ireland on Sunday? Not bad at all. Compared the height graphically of the proposed St Patrick’s tower (500 ft and fairly bulky) as part of the new Pro-Cathederal with the Spire (300 ft & slender). Interesting
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February 24, 2003 at 6:39 pm #722123
emf
ParticipantPaving was relaid up to the Gresham last week so that’s why its looking so ship shape. They had it in fairly quickly too!
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February 25, 2003 at 10:31 am #722124
-Donnacha-
ParticipantApparently, 10 internet site names connected with the Spire have been registered. DCC aren’t too happy!
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February 25, 2003 at 11:09 am #722125
GrahamH
ParticipantGardiner is so under-acknowledged in this city, is there even a statue in his honour? There’s no excuse for a statue not to be erected on O’ Connell St now, as part of the works, considering it was his foresight that created for us one of the finest streets in Europe.
I cut across Gardiner St most mornings and it is truly beautiful, or rather whats left of it…
The houses are much more uniform & dignified than those of the over-celebrated southside, and after all, they set the standard for much of Merrion Sq and the like.I agree that the Spire shouldn’t be named after anyone.
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February 25, 2003 at 11:31 am #722126
Niall
ParticipantHow about organising a petition to keep the name as it is?
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February 25, 2003 at 4:14 pm #722127
GregF
ParticipantAnyone know of any images/portraits of the great man himself and unsung hero Luke Gardiner …aka junior and senior.
Maybe a campaign should be started to give these great urban planners of Georgian Dublin
the credit they deserve. Yep I can see B..B…Bertie et al jumping on the band wagon.A sculpture would be very apt done in a Baroque style with a bit of a swagger and set in a square of some sort in his part of Dublin. Pity that Gardiner Street has suffered however.
(Ever see that statue too of Robert Emmet on St Steven’s Green, somewhat lost where it is is’nt it………I often thought that it should be moved to the front of St Catherine’s Church with a square of some sort being created in Thomas Street where he had his bit of an uprising and was executed.)
Feck the traffic here, the fabric, history and culture of the city matters more. -
February 26, 2003 at 10:35 am #722128
brunel
ParticipantVandal proof ?!?!? ๐
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February 26, 2003 at 10:46 am #722129
brunel
ParticipantArgh maybe i’ll get this attachment working second time around….
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February 26, 2003 at 11:10 am #722130
urbanisto
ParticipantThats good!
GregF surely Mountjoy Square is the place for a Gardiner memorial. And I agrre one is needed…it would help towards dispelling the myth that Georgian Dublin was soley British creation rather than something as much undertaken by Irish people as anyone.
Perhaps the Irish Georgian Society would be interested.
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February 26, 2003 at 12:45 pm #722131
Rory W
ParticipantThe Emmett Statue is across the road from his birthplace which stood where 124 St Stephen’s green is about to be built.
PS it looks like Cramptons are on site here now and the gaping hole in the West side of the green is finally going to be filled after being empty for approx 30 years
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February 26, 2003 at 1:14 pm #722132
Anonymous
InactiveStrikes me there’s a need for a separate Gardiner strand here.
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February 28, 2003 at 12:53 pm #722133
pvdz
ParticipantThe way I see it is we have four options;
A After its creator –Richies tower – no thanks
B After a deserving unappreciated, plenty of them in Ireland but the who and why arguement is endless and pointless
C In 20th century abstracted style, eg. ‘monument of light’ being the closest I’ve heard to this method. However over the last 70 years or so this type of titleing has become pastiche.
D Which only leaves one other option. The pop approach. I’m not familiar with any piece of public art that has been named by pop public response. The title of ‘the Spike’ is certainlty not abstract or positivly symbolic etc, its obviously quite crude. But it is a populist gut reaction to a piece of art and I think this ‘tart with the cart’ analogy would be interesting to explore.
Art has become more interested in audience reaction over composition in the last few years in its tireless search to represent society. Architecture however is the only artform that strives to show society as it should be! every other medium shows society as it is. In debating a contrived name for the piece we are following the habitual (and valid) utopian response of architecture when this is in fact a piece of art. So an ‘official’ title is an insult to the piece as it fundamentally doesnt understand the whole point of art.
So can we please stop worrying about being a laughing stock! Its time for us to stop having such a regional attitude in this country towards art and especially architecture, I think the real reason we would be a laughing stock is because were always so bloody worried about what the neighbours think we are scared to make our own valid decisions.
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February 28, 2003 at 1:15 pm #722134
Anonymous
InactiveSaw it this morning coming in at around 10:30
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March 3, 2003 at 1:32 pm #722135
Niall
ParticipantThis has gone all quiet lately, what’s happening with the base and lighting?
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March 5, 2003 at 11:49 am #722136
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterSpire Officially Named
The spire in O Connell Street has officially been named The Spire. The decision was taken by Coucillors at City Hall where they were presented with a choice of names but the straightforward title was a clear favourite. In Irish the Spire has the slightly more poetic title An Tur Solais. -
March 5, 2003 at 11:53 am #722137
GregF
ParticipantAn Tur Solais ……..the pole aka …..the Spire of Light. The ‘Spire’ is appropriate.
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March 5, 2003 at 12:08 pm #722138
GrahamH
ParticipantYep
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March 5, 2003 at 12:47 pm #722139
urbanisto
ParticipantI never thought of an Irish name (the shame of it) and I quite like the idea of An Tur Solais. im glad the CC opted for the common sense choice.
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March 5, 2003 at 12:57 pm #722140
shadow
ParticipantSpire…
The noun “spire” has 1 sense in WordNet
steeple, spire — (a tall tower that forms the superstructure of a building (usually a church or temple) and that tapers to a point at the topCambridge on line dictionary
spire
noun [C]
a tall pointed structure on top of a building, esp. a church towerWordsmyth
a tall, narrow, cone-shaped roof or upward projection on a building or outer wall; steeple; pinnacle.bootlegbooks.com
Spire
(Spire), n. [OE. spire, spir, a blade of grass, a young shoot, AS. spir; akin to G. spier a blade of grass, Dan. spire a sprout, sprig, Sw. spira a spar, Icel. spira.]1. A slender stalk or blade in vegetation; as, a spire grass or of wheat.
An oak cometh up a little spire.
Chaucer.2. A tapering body that shoots up or out to a point in a conical or pyramidal form. Specifically (Arch.), the roof of a tower when of a pyramidal form and high in proportion to its width; also, the pyramidal or aspiring termination of a tower which can not be said to have a roof, such as that of Strasburg cathedral; the tapering part of a steeple, or the steeple itself. “With glistering spires and pinnacles adorned.” Milton.
A spire of land that stand apart,
Cleft from the main.
Tennyson.Tall spire from which the sound of cheerful bells
Just undulates upon the listening ear.
Cowper.3. (Mining) A tube or fuse for communicating fire to the chargen in blasting.
4. The top, or uppermost point, of anything; the summit.
The spire and top of praises.
Shak.Spire
(Spire), v. i. [imp. & p. p. Spired ; p. pr. & vb. n. Spiring.] To shoot forth, or up in, or as if in, a spire. Emerson.It is not so apt to spire up as the other sorts, being more inclined to branch into arms.
Mortimer.Spire
(Spire), n. [L. spira coil, twist; akin to Gr. : cf. F. spire.]1. A spiral; a curl; a whorl; a twist. Dryden.
2. (Geom.) The part of a spiral generated in one revolution of the straight line about the pole. See Spiral, n.
Spire bearer. (Paleon.) Same as Spirifer.
Spired
(Spired) a. Having a spire; being in the form of a spire; as, a spired steeple. Mason.Having originated from minerets, via the crusades to identify churches it is wholly inappropriate for this ediface.
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March 5, 2003 at 1:57 pm #722141
Niall
ParticipantPoor old Ritchie, he wanted Monument of Light, I would have gone with that. I like the Irish language version, but only as it’s official translation. Spire better than some of other crazy ideas.
Roll on the unveiling and lighting.. no news on that then… I think Midsummer’s Day would be ideal.. this would give all concerned, plenty of time, given their speed. Only kiddin!
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March 5, 2003 at 3:07 pm #722142
GregF
Participant…….how about needle then as in Cleopatra’s needle
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March 6, 2003 at 7:53 am #722143
shadow
Participantneedle has my vote
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March 6, 2003 at 2:36 pm #722144
kefu
ParticipantA needle has connotations of heroin abuse particularly in Dublin, which would be unwelcome and would only draw more stupid nicknames.
Ian Ritchie endorsed the name Spire, according to the report prepared by the City Manager.
The report refers to ‘Monument of Light’ as the designer’s “working” title.
There were five criteria for the choice.
a) clearly identifiable with the designed monument.
b) should reflect the spiritual aspect of the ‘working’ title.
c) should have unifying rather than divisive associations
d) should be short, understandable by visitors
e) should reflect national rather than local aspirations.
The report also explains why no historical tag has been attached.
“It is forward looking and aspirational, not retrospective and historic in intent.”
Interestingly, it suggests a separate monument be built to Brian Boru, to coincide with 1000th anniversary of Battle of Clontarf, 1014 AD. -
March 6, 2003 at 2:39 pm #722145
colinsky
ParticipantOriginally posted by kefu
The report also explains why no historical tag has been attached.
“It is forward looking and aspirational, not retrospective and historic in intent.”There went my suggestion to stick with the old name, “The Millenium Spire”, as a remembrance of how long it took to get the darn thing up.
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March 6, 2003 at 3:58 pm #722146
Niall
ParticipantCollinsky, I totally agree! Lot of mucking around! I like the idea of a statue/sculpture, monument, as long as tasteful for Brian Boru at Clontarf, not be a while yet! Might be ready for 2018!!!
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March 7, 2003 at 3:57 am #722147
ro_G
ParticipantOriginally posted by kefu
“The report also explains why no historical tag has been attached.
It is forward looking and aspirational, not retrospective and historic in intent.”
100% in agreement, as posted below. nice to be looking forward instead of rooting ourselves in the past, as we as a nation are prone to do.
Originally posted by ro_G In terms of it’s effect on Dublin – it is visible from all over the city and is visible to all. It is bound to have much more impact, positive or negative, on the greater population. While I also like the sculptures you mention, they all represent the past, and arte looking back and are about heritage. But i want to look forward too, to a future Dublin.
See, theres two broad options for people of our age, stay here and make the best of the country or leave for other parts of teh worth. Neither makes one person better than the other, and i’m not implying that it does, but for the people who are living here and plan to live here long term it is, in short, inspiring to have such a monument that is not looking to the past but to the future, to future regeneration, to future tearing down of north/south dublin divides, to bury the sackville place legacy behid us. God knows, the streets of Dublin have enough reminders of the past.
http://www.p45rant.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&postid=726028
wow – i was getting very high-horsey that day! ๐ฎ
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March 8, 2003 at 5:19 pm #722148
Aken
ParticipantSO many things in Irish are really poetic. Take for example the small annoying bug The cricket. (I’ll leave it to you to find out what it is in irish and why so). We irish dont die, we “find death” (why we start looking i dont know) and i think a little more thought should have gone into finding a portic irish name for it, An Tur Solais will however have to do. And no doubt it will develop another name over time. “the hags with the bags” being a particulat favourite of mine and i hope people dont become offended by whatever we all eventually affectionatly call it, lets just hope its not “the stiffy by the liffey”.
I’m really impressed by it though, so simple, so elegant, so imposing yet somehow it fits.
I have one small concern about it though. Its not possibly the best tourist attraction, not due to the fact that you cant go up it or it dosen’t really do anything as its simplicity is its beauty but the fact that i cant see anybody buying minature models to bring home to the family, CAn you imagine the trouble you would have trying to get a flight with one in your baggage! -
March 10, 2003 at 1:59 pm #722149
GrahamH
ParticipantOk, latest developments.
All hell has broken loose on the site to get it ready for Patrick’s Day. There’s a flurry of activity at the base of the Spire, in contrast to the workerless site it had become over the past couple of months.
The cast bronze base is now fully installed around the base, the gap between it and the Spire that allows light to rise up now clearly evident.
Stainless steel bollards of varing height (and wrapped in plastic) are being installed right now (Monday 14:00) about 3 metres from, and in circumference of, the base of the Spire.
I didn’t see any paving slabs being laid, as I was rushing past, but presumably they are stacked up somewhere on site.
There are no floodlights on any of the corner buildings to illuminate the sculpture, although wiring infrastructure may well be in place (again, I was rushing)
The beacon is still on top.
Will the tip be illuminated on time?
More to the point, will the whole site be finished on time?!
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March 10, 2003 at 5:43 pm #722150
kefu
ParticipantNo.
They’re looking at a finishing date of early April now. -
March 10, 2003 at 6:11 pm #722151
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterOriginally posted by Aken
but the fact that i cant see anybody buying minature models to bring home to the family, CAn you imagine the trouble you would have trying to get a flight with one in your baggage! -
March 11, 2003 at 7:30 am #722152
Niall
ParticipantApril? April 2004?
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March 12, 2003 at 2:26 pm #722153
GrahamH
ParticipantOk, well the paving is being laid now around the base, its not the planned paving for the plaza, but rather temporary paving, presumably for Patrick’s Day, and it looks like at least it will be completed in time, considering the pace of it’s laying.
Its simply a continuation of the 88 paving, ie concrete slabs (although smaller and square this time) with the red brick banding around the edges behind the kerbstones.Also, a plaza shape is not being created, just the central median being continued at it’s current width, hence the current 2 traffic lanes on either side will be restored to 3 lanes for the time being at least.
The stainless steel bollards are all the same height, not different as I said before, there’s either 8 or 10 in place, 4 or 5 on each road side.
There is no floodlighting at all on any of the corner buildings.
I was trying to read an artical over a passenger’s shoulder on the train yesterday about the Spire works not being completed in time for Patrick’s Day, in the Herald, but to no avail, anyone know anything?
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March 12, 2003 at 2:27 pm #722154
GrahamH
ParticipantOther than early April being touted.
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March 12, 2003 at 2:34 pm #722155
lostcarpark
ParticipantWhen I passed last night, they seemed to be taking down the hoarding and packing the site huts onto lorries.
I hope they’re reusing the original paving slabs. It would be very wasteful to put down new paving for Paddy’s day then rip it up again to redo the plaza.
James
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March 12, 2003 at 10:58 pm #722156
GrahamH
ParticipantDream on, this is the CC, unfortunatly
These are brand new slabs, and will be ripped up again for the plaza to be installed, it’s paving being of granite slabs, laid in alternating stripes, like a football field.
Passed again about 5 this evening, all the paving is nearly finished already! All of the hoarding is now gone, just the steel railings to keep the prying public out.Will the Spire itself be cleaned before Monday? Its really manky now when seen in the sunlight.
(Westmoreland St looks brilliant with miles of green bunting stretched over the facades of it’s buildings)
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March 13, 2003 at 3:34 pm #722157
J. Seerski
ParticipantYeah – its a bit of a joke – concrete slabs?!!!
Why waste money on this crap – just start the proper job! The bollards are odd aswell… why don’t they surround the monument – theat’s the point surely?
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March 13, 2003 at 4:05 pm #722158
Anonymous
Inactivesix hundred and ninety nine … 700!
Its a load of *&^%$รยฃ that they couldn’t get it together and have the official unveiling as part of the paddy’s day festival, they’ve had over a month to sort out the lighting, it would have really added to the weekend, ah well another opportunity lost i guess…
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March 13, 2003 at 4:59 pm #722159
-Donnacha-
ParticipantIf the Spire ever makes it into the record books, it won’t be for Tallest Sculpture… How about Most Deadlines Missed: The Millennium, Christmas/ New Year 2002/3, and now Paddy’s Day.
As a patient Dub, who’s been watching this project crawl along at a snail’s pace since it was given the go-ahead, I for one won’t be standing in the rain and clapping when they finally switch the fecking thing on circa 3003.
Grrr. -
March 13, 2003 at 9:35 pm #722160
GrahamH
ParticipantWaheyyyy!!!
The lighting within the tip was turned on for the first time this evening!
Ok, it wasn’t quite in the tip but the clump of LEDs were being hauled up via the internal pully system to the top, switched on as it was happening.It was 6:30 when I was there, and the dazzlingly bright pure piercing white light was eminating from the joins of the 20m sections as it was being moved up inside.
In theory then, they should be up and operational by Monday, despite the absence of external floodlighting.
In theory…
I agree, the bollards do look wierd not completely encircling the base.
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March 13, 2003 at 10:50 pm #722161
lostcarpark
ParticipantI must say it looks great with even the bit of light that’s on. It really transforms the whole thing.
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March 13, 2003 at 10:51 pm #722162
Anonymous
Inactiveits still there about half way up … really bright !
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March 13, 2003 at 11:00 pm #722163
lostcarpark
ParticipantI passed the spike around 6:30, and there was light shing out around the halfway mark.
I passed again later, and the light was still at the halfway point, but it was joined by a cluster at the very top.
Fantastic!
James
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March 14, 2003 at 10:49 am #722164
bigjoe
Participantpassed the spike this morning. the work at base level is coming along. the hoardings are beginning to come down. will have to put in a huge effort in the next day or so to complete it by Monday.
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March 14, 2003 at 10:57 am #722165
Murpho
ParticipantAny chance of some photo’s of the latest developments?
Has there been any official word from Dublin Council about a ‘launch date’? (Images of Spire hurlting through the sky go through my mind!) -
March 14, 2003 at 12:34 pm #722166
GrahamH
ParticipantInteresting. Each of the 11,884 holes piercing the tip are the size of a 1 cent coin (15mm)
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March 14, 2003 at 1:13 pm #722167
lostcarpark
ParticipantAnd each one has a sensor to calculate the score when you successfully toss a coin through… ๐
James
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March 14, 2003 at 2:17 pm #722168
ro_G
Participantafter a stint of 7 weeks in Texas I am really looking forward to finally seeing it erect. A pint and a gawk at the Spike before the crassness of Patricks Day celebrations kicks in. Begorrah
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March 16, 2003 at 1:14 pm #722169
kefu
ParticipantThe middle light is an intermediate aviation light and will be a permanent feature.
Thus, there will eventually be the red aviation light at the tip, ten metres of white light below and then half way down, another light.
At least, that’s what the project managers are now saying. -
March 16, 2003 at 9:44 pm #722170
GrahamH
ParticipantWhat!!! Having the light half way down will/does just look ludicrous! Since when do tall structures require lighting up along their profiles? This will utterly destroy the effect created by it’s nightime illumination/floodlighting. And the red aviation light, will this be visible from street level? Why isn’t the LED white light sufficient? If you can’t see that from a plane, what the bloody hell can you? This is terrible!
Annnnyway, there’s a half hour feature programme about Nelson’s Pillar and the Spire, and the controversies surrounding them etc on RTE One tommorrow evening (Patrick’s Day) at
7 o’clock entitled ‘Tale Tales’, a Townlands special.Expect lots of sentimental rose-tintedness and talking heads…
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March 17, 2003 at 3:12 am #722171
Anonymous
Inactivecompletely agree graham, the light in the middle will look rediculous & i dont see why they need to keep the aviation light when the top twelve metres will be light … the chimneys at poolbeg are taller than the spire and have no middle light …
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March 18, 2003 at 10:46 am #722172
J. Seerski
ParticipantThat programme on the Pillar and the Spike last night was fascinating…..”Tall Tales” RTE1, but whoever didn’t see it, missed out big time!
What was so pronounced in the story was how public monuments provoke such controversy.
O’Connell St. looked spectacular also pre-blow-up-nelson-days.
The Metropole looked fantastic. No Fingal Co.Co. Offices either – just decorative victorian buildings. Mingin take aways were missing. It really seemed to be a boulevard lost in time… -
March 18, 2003 at 1:28 pm #722173
GrahamH
ParticipantTrue.
I noticed the Metropole and Capitol cinemas too, they complimented the GPO so well. Gilbeys, once Dublin’s finest Victorian bldg was also also evident, it’s successor being the Fingal Offices, not even deserving of the capitals I’ve given them.fingal offices
Ah, thats better.
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March 18, 2003 at 2:01 pm #722174
dc3
Participant“That programme on the Pillar and the Spike last night was fascinating”
It was indeed, – how much has changed since 1966 on O’Connell St esp the Parnell St end. Another one that would have been there then was Findlaters.
By the way where else in Europe would you find long term empty sites, such as on O’Connell St and Parnell Sq?
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March 25, 2003 at 8:53 am #722175
bigjoe
Participantwhen are they taking the gift wrap off the spike? i thought this was to be done on Paddys day.
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March 25, 2003 at 5:32 pm #722176
-Donnacha-
ParticipantSo that ugly bright white light half way up is permanent and the uglier red aviation light is also staying? Surely not!!!!!!
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March 25, 2003 at 5:51 pm #722177
Sue
ParticipantI believe the story is that the architectural light at the top was tried out last week and found not to be up to scratch. Dublin city council engineers weren’t happy with it. So, more tweaking. Some dark bands, in particular, have to be removed.
The light half way up, an intermediate light, is for aviation purposes. This needs to be tilted up so that the majority of the light points to the sky.
It’s going to be 10-12 weeks before the work around the base is finished, and the permanent granite platform set into place. There’s no urgency from a city council point of view to launch it, so it seems to me like we’re looking at a July/August timetable for an official opening. The plastic should come off the base a lot sooner, though.
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March 25, 2003 at 7:41 pm #722178
Niall
ParticipantJesus, this one surely runs and runs.. like Blackhall Bridge and Grattan Bridge and the Halfpenny bridge refurbishment, months and months and months behind schedule. I’d say September.. Take yer time lads! The tourist season’ll be over by then.. oops forgot the builders holidays, maybe October!
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March 25, 2003 at 8:13 pm #722179
GrahamH
ParticipantThis is crazy, it really is. We have put up with so much, and been so accepting of all other delays, ‘they need to get it right’ ‘there’s no point rushing’ etc, but this is madness, it really is.
And the granite base, after just laying down concrete slabs? What the hell is going on!!!
And there’s nothing current on their website… -
March 26, 2003 at 9:34 am #722180
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThe official unveiling of the Spire has been delayed until June, because of problems with the lighting system. The light at the top of the 120 metre monument doesn’t meet the Irish Aviation Authority’s requirements. It’s being sent back to Britain for further testing, while the City Council uses the delay to complete work on the granite paving around the Spire.
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March 26, 2003 at 9:41 am #722181
paul_moloney
ParticipantAm I missing something? The Spire isn’t _that_ high.. why on earth does it need an elaborate aviation light? Surely any light would do?
Also, I noticed they’ve places bollards all around the Spire, not even in any discernable pattern (the bollards on the west side of the Spire are in a straight line, while on the east they follow the curve of the spire). Are these permanent? They’ll ruin the effect of the base of the Spire, i think.
P.
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March 26, 2003 at 10:13 am #722182
lostcarpark
ParticipantI don’t understand the bollards myself. A neat circle around the spire would seem more logical.
To the best of my knowledge, there’s only one aircraft that overflies the city at low altitude by night, the Garda helicoptor. Surely they know to steer clear?
James
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March 26, 2003 at 10:13 am #722183
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI saw the LEDs light up at the top when they were testing, clearly visible from a great distance (though not as glaringly obvious as the big red beacon). Obviously the effect was too subtle to warn off the hundreds of drunken, low-flying daredevil pilots that fill the air over o’connell street of an evening…
As for the mid-way aviation light, needed for the stratospheric height of, what…60 metres? Are the IAA for real? At this rate everyone over six feet tall will have to wear warning lights on their heads to avoid mid-air collisions.
The middle light completely spoils the vertical effect of the Spire that draws your line of sight up to the tip. When it was switched on, I saw people ignoring the top, pointing at the middle and saying, ‘yeah, but what’s that for?’ It’s certainly not what Ritchie proposed.
When DCC says the opening is now June, you can add at least four months onto that. It’ll soon be joked about as our latest half-finished, not-quite-working Millennium project, and if it ever is unveiled, it’ll have taken so long, it’ll be a damp squib.
This is not good enough! -
March 26, 2003 at 11:59 am #722184
Rory W
ParticipantWhat drunks put in those bollards or is someone trying to make a fractil – their locations make no sense at all – also I’m fed up with the light on the tip it looks stupid and out of character with the rest of it – its as if somebody put a big red dot on the nose of the Mona Lisa so that people would notice it in the Louvre. I haven’t seen the midway light yet but it sounds like another bad idea
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March 26, 2003 at 12:04 pm #722185
ew
ParticipantHas Ian Richie expressed an opinion of this latest mess? The two aviation lights certaintly make a mockery of his vision.
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March 26, 2003 at 12:18 pm #722186
shadow
ParticipantThis the same vision that was once proposed for a shopping centre entrance, or so I have heard? Anyway since the height of this structure was going to have aviaiton issues surely this should be part of the design development, or do designers live in a cocoon of suspended responsibility?
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March 26, 2003 at 1:01 pm #722187
Niall
ParticipantI hadn’t realised about the bollards. I dispair. This is some bloody country, can anything be done properly and even remotely on time or budget?
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March 26, 2003 at 2:32 pm #722188
GrahamH
ParticipantThe more I see the bollards, the worse they become.
And again, the granite paving?! Why have the concrete slabs been laid?
And, work on the plaza was supposed to begin ‘early in the new year’.
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March 26, 2003 at 3:16 pm #722189
Michael Pat
ParticipantIs it just me or is the Spire starting to look a bit streaky and grimy?
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March 27, 2003 at 10:00 am #722190
paul_moloney
ParticipantIt’s not just you; there’s quite a lot of dirt streaks down the length of it. Since they have self-cleaning glass (some kind of coating that reacts with rain, I presume?), wouldn’t it have been possible to the same with the Spire?
Dirty, with great fecking bollards and a Red Nose Day light on top. And it’s only been up 3 months….
P.
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March 27, 2003 at 11:04 am #722191
Murpho
ParticipantIs there any chance of some new photos for so that an ex-pat can make judgements?
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March 27, 2003 at 2:35 pm #722192
cf
ParticipantI walk down Talbot street every morning towards the spike and on when the sun is shining (as it has been for the last two weeks) it still looks fantastic….despite the red light and the wrapping at the base.
When the curved steel catches the sunlight it really is a tower of light and I truly believe it is the beginning of something great for the North Inner City…. don’t let your criticism turn into cynicism ๐
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March 30, 2003 at 12:58 pm #722193
Aken
ParticipantHaving spent the week back in the city i’ve gotten used to the spire. It may just be that it isn’t lighting yet but i’m not as impressed by it as i first was. Last night i was waiting for the No.13 bus and being O’C street i was trying to aviod that gaze of drunked 10yo’s so i took a loog long look at it and it just seemed… boring! When it is completley finished i may be more impressed. However i feel its symbolic stature is greater than its physical. Meaning it was amazing it was built at all. If only it was a little bit taller?
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April 1, 2003 at 4:35 pm #722194
Rory W
ParticipantWoo-hoo 50 pages
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April 4, 2003 at 12:32 am #722195
Aken
ParticipantNice to see somebodys paying attention to what i say! lol
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April 4, 2003 at 9:35 am #722196
dpower
ParticipantIt’s turning into an anti-climax. Too much trouble. People only have so much patience. It’s hard to be proud of something when it’s caused so much grief.
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April 5, 2003 at 7:09 pm #722197
Aken
ParticipantTotally, 3/4 years in the naking when all it really is is just a big spike! I dont see what the fuss was about in the first place. I’m not as impressed by it as i first was but i still like it!
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April 6, 2003 at 11:57 pm #722198
Anonymous
Inactiveaviation light is out again for some reason …
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April 7, 2003 at 12:25 pm #722199
Anonymous
InactiveOriginally posted by cf
……..don’t let your criticism turn into cynicism ๐Its not hard to be cynical and really, thats the only way you can be. I think that there was far too much optimism and patience during the constant delays of this project.
In reality the spike was a pre-fabricated bit of metal just bigger than an ordinary building crane. It should not have taken such a lenght of time to erect. If weather and wind was a problem, it should not have been put up during the windiest months of the year. If they wanted to unviel it for St. Patrick’s day, the site should not have lain idle for most of February. The contractors must be laughing to the bank that they can string out this project for so long.
It is a damp squid – a dirty one at that – self cleaning metal how-are-you? Graffiti-proof? I think that’s another feature of the Spike which might prove to be not-althogether correct.
Here’s a thought: it only took a year to build the Empire States Building in NYC. I can’t believe the date for this is now June. Its beyond a joke and not the best omen for the rest of the O’Connell St. redevelopment.
Its looking increasingly likely that this will end up like O’Connell St.’s previous Millenium monument – the Floozie in the Jacuzzi – but even that didn’t have this saga surrounding its building.
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April 8, 2003 at 3:16 pm #722200
ew
ParticipantI’m sure it will all work out and I still look forward to seeing the full job completed. Meanwhile I enjoy the spire as it is and mostly it is an object of beauty and wonder. Check out the sunrise and sunset and it’ll cheer you up too.
I’m taking a month off from being concerned about the ineptitude and the typicalness(?) of the delays and the shoddyness of the job half done. I’m hoping that in a month there’ll be nothing to complain about. Fingers crossed! -
April 8, 2003 at 4:29 pm #722201
Niall
ParticipantDoes anyone know what the reason is? Or is it just a case of chronic mismanagement at the Corpo, sorry City Council.
This whole thing has been handled appallingly and does NOT bode well for the development of Main Street Ireland in the long run.
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April 9, 2003 at 4:12 pm #722202
iuxta
ParticipantI went down over lunch to see the base of the spire , now that it has finally been unwrapped. It looks kinda strange, and was causing a lot of comment from passers-by.
There is a pattern on the lower section of the base rising up to about 6 metres or so. I remember reading that this was derived from the patterns of the soil in the test bores that were done at the start of the project. I have to say the pattern looks awful….. very nasty actually. It looks as though the wrapping got stuck to the surface and then pulled off the finish when it was being unwrapped. I know that this isn’t the case, as the matt finish is shot-peened, not applied as a film, but that is what it appears like, and now since lunchtime, I’ve received two calls from friends telling me to go down and take a look at what they assumed was the result of bad workmanship, or of leaving the wrapping on for too long.
The funny thing is that the surface of the patterned areas are left in their non-shot-peened state, i.e. very shiny and it gives a hint of what the spire may have looked like if it had been left with the stainless mirror finish that you usually expect with stainless steel. It reflects everything from the surrounds so you see distorted reflections of all the traffic and people moving across the surface, which looks great.
Can anyone recall if the shot-peened finish was mentioned at the beginning? and this pattern on the base? I only heard of it very late in the day, shortly before the first section arrived on site.
It would have been best if the base was left either with no pattern, or if one was desired, that it be a more linear, othogonal type of pattern, more in keeping with the feeling of the spire.
At the moment the pattern is too organic, and feels like a half-hearted gesture to “soften” the spire. I can’t think of anything less soft or organic than a sculpture in the form of steel spire set in an urban setting like O’Connell Street and think that should be celebrated rather than apologised for. -
April 9, 2003 at 4:22 pm #722203
GrahamH
ParticipantReally, its unwrapped?!!! Arrrgh, don’t have time to see it today now!!!
The shot peening and the pattern were mentioned pretty much from the beginning.Can’t wait to see it, regardless of it’s condition.
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April 9, 2003 at 11:33 pm #722204
GrahamH
ParticipantOk, got to see it in time.
Is this some sort of sick joke? This ‘design’ on its base.
It is repulsive.
It looks like the base has just been vandalised or damaged, with areas of the shot peening been removed.
What a shame.
Really what a disaster, what a disapointment, what a crime.
The pattern is childish, predicable, grossly post-modern, and a harsh slap in the face to the GPO. Its a pattern you’d expect to be painted onto the walls of a swimming pool, or on the sides of slides in a water park. Childish, garish and crass.I am furious with this, I really am.
It is nothing short of a defacement of the sculpture and I am disgusted with it.
Most of all, saddened at what could have been.
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April 10, 2003 at 9:18 am #722205
cf
ParticipantWhen Bertie is overthrown will the yanks come in and tear down the spike?
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April 10, 2003 at 10:22 am #722206
notjim
Participantits not so bad in my view, likably even. funny really, i have been dreading this for ages since the description made it sound aweful and well, i didn’t think it was. its a bit corporate, probably not as nice as having no pattern, but i imagined something much much worse.
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April 10, 2003 at 11:20 am #722207
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterMy partner’s reaction was very much of a “is it supposed to be like that, it looks like something went wrong” variety…
As for myself, I’m not sure yet. I do like the fact that it is mirror reflective though. I think if I had done it myself, I would have went for concentric bands around the spire..
Though when i think about it now, the difference in colour does give the effect of a plinth from which the remainder of the Spire erupts so perhaps it will look good over time….
and i now think contrary to my post at https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&postid=12537#post12537 that the “base tone” is supposed to be different on the bottom section and its not just pollution or weathering….
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April 10, 2003 at 12:21 pm #722208
GrahamH
ParticipantI looked at it again this morning, thinking perhaps I’d think differently about it after a second viewing.
No, its still terrible, in fact it looks even worse. Of course the idea of mirrored parts is very attractive but to be used in this way?!
It looks a terrible mess, like something has gone badly, badly wrong, and makes the whole street look untidy (more so)
What the hell happened to Ritchie’s cris-cross double helix DNA pattern which he described as ‘a late 20th century spiral’. Where the patterns overlapped the surface was to be left mirrior finished, where they did’nt, shot peened. It was an elegant, restrained and graceful design befitting of the Spire.
Ritchie was describing this barely 4 months ago at the finishing stages of its manufacture.Is this his revenge on the people of Dublin for their decending remarks?
I most certainly cannot construe it as being anything else.This ‘pattern’ is disgraceful in my view and has cast a dark cloud on this entire project.
What an insult to O’ Connell Street.
Ritchie should be ashamed of himself.
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April 10, 2003 at 12:39 pm #722209
urbanisto
ParticipantHow the mighty have fallen…
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April 10, 2003 at 12:58 pm #722210
ro_G
Participanti was expecting spirals too. good lord, that picture makes it look awful Paul.
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April 10, 2003 at 1:03 pm #722211
dpower
ParticipantWell Graham, you have defended the spire through thick and thin, such a pity that it should end like this.
Unfortunately I agree.
I was very excited by the concept, but this “pattern” doesn’t seem to have any discernable geometry. And I know it might be considered garish, but the polished steel would have looked amazing.
What a shame. -
April 10, 2003 at 1:25 pm #722212
Murpho
ParticipantWell judging by the pictures it looks awful (Are those black parts bits of plastic still stuck to it?)
But surely it’s just a case that it needs a clean up and then the pattern will be more visible then. I know the DNA pattern is there as I have seen photo’s of it from during the manufacturing process. It can’t just have dissappeared?
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April 10, 2003 at 1:56 pm #722213
Anonymous
InactiveI like it รขโฌยฆ although I saw it on tv before hand so I knew what to expect รขโฌยฆ although Iรขโฌโขd say most people will look and wonder if its supposed to be like that รขโฌยฆ
I donรขโฌโขt like the change in colour ( is that solely from having the plastic around the base or was it intentional ? ) and the discolouration of the spire in general, wonder how it will look by this time next year รขโฌยฆ the city council should get on to ritchie รขโฌยฆ
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April 10, 2003 at 2:04 pm #722214
d_d_dallas
ParticipantDid Ritchie stay away completely from Waterford where they were actually assembling the spike? Cos if he saw this coming off the production line and thought “oh goodie” – I’d be seriously worried. I think the spike would have looked 100 times better had they left the base unpatterned rather than inflict this on us – a shame… I guess the honeymoon is over.
Bring back de floooosie!
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April 10, 2003 at 2:08 pm #722215
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThe point of view of the average punters
http://www.p45rant.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&postid=793634#post793634 -
April 10, 2003 at 2:16 pm #722216
Niall
ParticipantChrist,
this is going all horribly wrong I have a gut feeling there has been a balls up. I would be very surprised if Ritchie, wanted that ‘thing at the base’ It looks very unprofessional. Bit like the Corpo really
As for the ‘opening’ thinking about it, I’d say it’s tied up with the Special Olympics, which are due to open on June 21, which also incidently is the longest day of the year.
A fitting time to illuminate the Spire or the beginning of the end for another corpo architectual fiasco…?? I’m beginning to think it will go the way of the flozzie and the time in the slime!
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April 10, 2003 at 3:48 pm #722217
Anonymous
Inactiveyep ritchie was shown on nationwide about a month and a half a go, surveying the finished product in waterford, before it was brought to dublin …
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April 10, 2003 at 3:56 pm #722218
GrahamH
ParticipantDear oh dear, at least for once the punters are correct and are making perceptive comments.
It would be so much better just shot-peened down to the ground.
And as its the base section, we’re stuck with the bloody thing now for the next 120 years.
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April 10, 2003 at 4:20 pm #722219
shadow
ParticipantWhy was this pattern not included for the overall spike. This approach of using an “interference” pattern removes the ovious inconsistencies of material and joints over large distances. Also what and earth does it represent?
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April 10, 2003 at 8:27 pm #722220
d_d_dallas
ParticipantWell – maybe our capital’s grime will finally pay off, and a nice thick layer of crud will be smeared over the pattern in no time. Maybe a collage of Abra, Empty Pockets and Micky D’s wrappers???
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April 11, 2003 at 9:55 am #722221
GrahamH
ParticipantOh and don’t forget Supermacs, Burger King & Mc Donalds.
I agree about the inconsistency in the presence of the pattern. Whereas the helix would have been far superior, it does’nt make any sense to have any pattern on the sculpture.
Whats the point in having a mere 10 metres out of 120 adorned?
It looks utterly ludicrous from a distance – in relation to the scale of the Spire its a silly folly at it’s base that abruptly & crudly stops in a fashion that blatently destroys the whole vertical emphasis of the Spire. -
April 11, 2003 at 10:33 am #722222
bluefoam
ParticipantOn walking towards the Spikey Thing last night, I noticed that the black sacks had been removed from the base and there was a layer of what looked like translucent frosted fasson underneath, which appeared to be torn and scratched in areas. That was until I noticed the highly reflective bits and realised it was an intentional feature. I then treid to figure out what the graphic represented. ? . Without spending much time on it I headed off to go about my business. As it is, the composition is just poor. they have missed so many opportunities in building this monument. I believe this is to do with political correctness, they are afraid to make any kind of statement, hence the non design of the thing. Apart from the obvious it is a thouroughly asexual non entity.
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April 11, 2003 at 11:27 am #722223
Murpho
ParticipantSorry but am I confused.
Looking at the pictures, are those black marks, the leftovers from the plastic or is that the design? -
April 11, 2003 at 11:32 am #722224
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterThey are reflections so they look dark
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April 11, 2003 at 12:46 pm #722225
Rory W
ParticipantIt looks like the base section had a mirrored effect to the whole thing, but somebody peeled most of it off and we were left with a few mangy bits stuck to the base.
A blind, drunk, child could have done better – it spoils the whole thing
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April 11, 2003 at 3:59 pm #722226
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI’ll preface my comments by saying that I have not actually seen the unveiled spike in person, only though pics in this forum. i do think that the tonal difference between the base section and the rest looks odd but I’ll reserve final judgement until actually seen.
I am surprised at some of the comments above which in some cases border on the hysterical. Should the design-decoration or whatever you want to call it, not be considered in terms of the fully completed project? As I understand it the paving section at the base is yet to be completed.
As a general comment, why should the pattern be geometric? Why can it not be “organic” to contrast with the strong vertical emphasis the spike clearly has. Spirals and such like smack of dodgy celtic jewellery.
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April 11, 2003 at 8:45 pm #722227
GrahamH
ParticipantOh of course, how could I forget the exquisite concrete slabs. Sure they’ll change the perspective entirely!
I know yes, the concrete is only temporary and yes, granite will be laid, but nothing, nothing can change this part of the project which has gone horribly wrong.
It is essential that you see it in ‘real life’ to see how proposterous it is in relation to the overall sculpture.
I brought a friend to see it today and all he could do was laugh and laugh and laugh.
WHAT! Thats it?! What happened to it? Why does it stop so suddenly? What the hell is that supposed to represent?! And you say that change in colour is a deliberate feature?! It just looks manky! That ‘pattern’ ruins the whole thing! Auggh its terrible now!
Many unrepeatable remarks were also audible from passers-by (although thats hardly a first)
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April 13, 2003 at 4:25 pm #722228
-Donnacha-
Participantok ok. Will be in Dublin next month so will see for myself then…….
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April 14, 2003 at 8:41 am #722229
GregF
ParticipantThe shiney highly reflective pattern looks quite attractive I think…..but I suppose it is a case of having to like it.
I thought the pattern was to be Celtic in style.
Please will they ever finish the project by installing the lights and giving the whole thing a good clean. Pity the did’nt shot peen the whole thing and have that mirror effect over its whole surface….would be blinding on a sunny day. -
April 14, 2003 at 5:03 pm #722230
Far Glynn
ParticipantWell, Iรขโฌโขm beginning to really like the design. I admit itรขโฌโขs a million miles away from what I, and by the sounds of it, most people here expected. But I have to say Iรขโฌโขm relieved its not some predictable geometrical or spirally Celtic design รขโฌโ that would have been ultimately disappointing and maybe contradictory to the idea that it has no historical references. I think itรขโฌโขs a great idea how they got the design and I find that as I am opening my mind, I am finding it more pleasing to the eye every day.
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April 14, 2003 at 7:07 pm #722231
Aken
ParticipantI saw it with my own eyes today and although its not great, it isn’t as bad as i had expected.
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April 14, 2003 at 9:26 pm #722232
merriman mick
ParticipantSaw the spike for the first time last week from the DART at Connolly station looking down Talbot street and I like the way it stands there, its size is perfect in relation to its surroundings.
Has anyone got any photos of the newly unveiled base designs please.
The next time I’m back I know where I’m going shopping, it’s a real buzz checking the thing out after you step out of the shops, is O’Connell street the center of Dublin once again or what ???
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April 15, 2003 at 8:27 am #722233
GregF
Participant….go back to page 50 to see photos of the design on the base
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April 15, 2003 at 9:59 am #722234
dpower
ParticipantI think they should have left the pattern off it. It’s like designing a wonderful toaster only to be told that in order to sell it you need to stick a “sheaf of wheat” motiff on the side to sell it, because Joe Public likes Sheaves of wheat. The form is beautiful all by itself- the whole notion of engraving and guiding is pre industrial revolution.
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April 15, 2003 at 3:55 pm #722235
Conchita32
ParticipantI am from Germany and as I lived formerly in Dublin I am interested in the transformation of O’Connel St. Could you tell me if the Spire is already completed or are there still works going on? What about the patterns on the surface, are they still there? And what about the works on O’Connel St., what is going on there at the moment?
Thanks a lot for your answers, J. -
April 15, 2003 at 4:01 pm #722236
urbanisto
ParticipantI never cease to be amazed by these types of mails! There are 52 glorious pages on this thread. Why not just read back!!!
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April 15, 2003 at 4:17 pm #722237
d_d_dallas
ParticipantMaybe the jokes on us… perhaps this IS what a 21st century spiral helix design looks like…?
OK – probably not.
Hmm – any clouds out today – maybe it’ll acid rain a bit.
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April 15, 2003 at 8:43 pm #722238
merriman mick
ParticipantYes I’ve looked at page 50 and on seeing the
pics I can only say that it looks beter than I had expected after reading some of the comments on the base designs. I’ll look forward to seeing it again, probably after the official opening.Does anyone know if the red light at the top is permanent, it couldn’t be, could it ?
Take a look at pre-spike photos of O’Connell street and you begin to miss that soaring steel rod.
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April 16, 2003 at 9:37 am #722239
LOB
ParticipantOriginally posted by merriman mick
Does anyone know if the red light at the top is permanent, it couldn’t be, could it ?
No, temporary.
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April 16, 2003 at 1:55 pm #722240
emf
ParticipantI think the bottom section stands out because it has been covered for so long. If they clean the whole lot (or wait ’till it gets as dirty as the rest) I think it will be ok. I like the reflective part although I have to admit the transition to the undecorated part is a bit sudden!!
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April 17, 2003 at 2:10 pm #722241
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThe pattern looks like a mistake from a distance, and waiting for the previously wrapped bit to match the dirt on the rest is not good enough!
So much for ‘self cleaning’!
And I thought most of the base finish was going to be mirrored, not just the tiny area that is patterned. If I bought this in a shop, I’d be looking for my money back.
We’ve been conned! -
April 17, 2003 at 2:20 pm #722242
shadow
ParticipantWalking in the district yesterday I couldn’t help but notice that the “stainless steel” is rapidly becoming a dull grey, even more rapidly than I imagined. The colour is darker than a rain sodden cloud. I seem to remember talk about reflecting the sky and envrionmental conditions. The sky was bright blue and the pole is becoming even darker than the lamposts it starting to resemble. I realise that there will be immediatly comments about how wonderful it is from Ringsend, form Ranelagh, from south side. But half of Dublin faces it from the north, and it remains in constant shadow. I suspect that uv radiation hitting the southern aspect will be vastly different from the northern side. This will result in a assymetrical tonal shift from south to north or vice versa.
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April 21, 2003 at 9:57 pm #722243
ro_G
Participantseen the base at the weekend and it aint in the flesh or the steel as it appears on the pictures i have seen
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May 7, 2003 at 3:30 pm #722244
Anonymous
InactiveIs the Spire bending slightly eastwards at the top?
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May 7, 2003 at 5:04 pm #722245
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI thought it looked crooked!
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May 7, 2003 at 5:29 pm #722246
d_d_dallas
ParticipantThere was story in the paper on this – the excuse is given as either a) we’re all thick … or b) it’s bending according to the wind, and it’s allowed tolerances for sway.
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May 8, 2003 at 11:09 am #722247
GrahamH
ParticipantAny news on the internal lighting anyone?
I’m worried I’ll be dead & buried before its finally installed. -
May 8, 2003 at 12:06 pm #722248
Anonymous
InactiveThis really is shaping up to be the most appropriate marker of what were Dublin’s millenium celebrations………
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May 8, 2003 at 12:11 pm #722249
urbanisto
ParticipantI can’t wait for the Millennium… its going to be brilliant!!!
I saw the Spire in the flesh at the weekend, and I didnt think the design on the base was all that bad but the nonsensical layout bollards at the end was a puzzle as was the obvious grime and dirt of the Spire.
So I have to agree the Spire has definately worked out as the perfect symbol of this city in the 21st Century. Aspires to be so much but at the end of it is just a dirty and chaotic mess.
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May 8, 2003 at 12:17 pm #722250
Niall
ParticipantThe spike has been spiked!!
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May 8, 2003 at 2:24 pm #722251
bluefoam
ParticipantI heard that the same project engineer is working on the spike as started the Gaudi cathederal in Barcelona. He says he will pop over to finish the spike when he is finished over there.
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May 13, 2003 at 6:29 pm #722252
JackHack
Participanta more laid-back spike….
http://www.parkwest.ie/images/PW%20spike%20sculpture.jpg
makes the spire look a bit stressed.
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May 13, 2003 at 8:27 pm #722253
GrahamH
ParticipantI’ve often seen that sculpture from the M50, it looks really well, contrasting with the clean lines of surrounding buildings.
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May 22, 2003 at 8:45 am #722254
GregF
ParticipantIt looks as if the repaving of O’Connell Street is getting under way now……Alot of the pavements are sectioned off. They will probably leave the inaugural ceremony of the Spire and indeed the revamped street itself till this is all done or well most of it……which would be logical I suppose.
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May 22, 2003 at 10:48 am #722255
delta_jacob
ParticipantI’ve been following this thread for quite a while now without commenting, and i find the see-sawing of opinions to be really quite humourous. People here are obviously very passionate about the project, whether for or against it, but going from complete enthusiasm directly to utter disgust after the pattern on the bottom was revealed seems like an extreme reaction.
Ive seen similar reactions in posts relating to other buildings or projects here where the majority have detested it while being built only to warm to it once it was completed, and i think we should all learn to be a little cautious in commenting on the spire until it is complete, ready to be judged and hopefully sparkling.
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May 22, 2003 at 11:02 am #722256
delta_jacob
Participanto
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May 22, 2003 at 11:04 am #722257
delta_jacob
Participant.
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May 22, 2003 at 11:35 am #722258
delta_jacob
Participant.
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May 22, 2003 at 11:40 am #722259
delta_jacob
Participant.
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May 23, 2003 at 8:57 pm #722260
GrahamH
ParticipantThe Spire has been completed for months, we can see the finished artical now and can judge it perfectly objectively.
And I still, and always will, deem the base to be ghastly. Never will I tip-toe to the ‘other side’.
Unfortunate for me, different for others of course. -
May 30, 2003 at 9:26 am #722261
Rory W
ParticipantOfficial lighting up day – 5th of July. Join the Mayor of Dublin to Celebrate:
Millenium 2000.. er no hold on, Christmas 2002, shite winds… New Years eve 2002 .. sod it its not finished, er Paddys Day, Easter …, Special Olympics…Midsummers night – ah bollocks hows about the day after American Independence Day.
Welcome to Ireland – the land where we make it up as we go along
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May 30, 2003 at 9:57 am #722262
Anonymous
InactiveI quite agree with you Graham. The bottom really ruins the look of the whole thing. It would look much better without that design scrawled on it.
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May 30, 2003 at 10:01 am #722263
GregF
Participant…………..Wait till it’s all cleaned up
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May 30, 2003 at 10:19 am #722264
Anonymous
InactiveI am not talking about the surroundings I am talking about the design on the spire itself. I think it would look much better if it was left as the rest of it is.
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May 30, 2003 at 10:31 am #722265
LOB
ParticipantI see the spike has made it into the “working details” section of the AJ (15/05/03)
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May 30, 2003 at 10:41 am #722266
bluefoam
ParticipantThe idea of the spike is quite good, even though I would have gone for a more interactive idea. But it really lets us down as a piece of engineering – you can see every seem all the way up, the lights don’t work, the bottom is a completely different colour due to tarnish but possibly due to a different chemical treatment for the graphic. They couldnt even manufacture the thing in anything like reasonable time.
No wonder manufacturing is dead in this country, if you were an outside observer would you want to hire our engineers – based on this project.
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May 30, 2003 at 11:39 am #722267
Anonymous
Inactivea french company was responsible from most of the delay & the lights have not been fitted yet.
I agree that the finish is quite poor in places, the joins should not be visible, section 2 is particularly bad ….
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June 3, 2003 at 12:42 pm #722268
Anonymous
InactiveI wouldn’t blame the French right off – the thing is still delayed 6 months after it getting here from France – you can blame the French, the high winds, the rain (why not?!), the Irish Aviation Board, The Brits (it was their lighting), the traffic pollution, technology (a self cleaning stainless steel?), or just the Corpo.
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June 4, 2003 at 11:50 pm #722269
GrahamH
ParticipantDoes the pattern on the base have planning permission?
This was not the pattern agreed until after Christmas, long after the High Court ruling, pp, the EIS and everything else.
This pattern is arguably a major deviation from the approved sculpture design, in my view it has significant impliations to the structure’s relationship with the GPO and the Street as a whole, ie, I think it makes a complete mockery of urban planning.
It would be very interesting to see if it has pp.
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June 5, 2003 at 9:32 am #722270
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantSsh! You don’t want it demolished now, do you?
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June 6, 2003 at 10:13 am #722271
d_d_dallas
ParticipantHey – it’s nothing a bit of steel wool won’t fix up. Send Bord Pleanala down there to get scrubbing.
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June 6, 2003 at 10:28 am #722272
Anonymous
Inactiveit really is looking quite grubby at this stage … (whenever the sun is not shining)
why did they bother shot peening the surface at all ? whatever about the design, the polished mirrored areas of the lower section look great, would be nice to see what the whole monument would look like polished to the same level …
ritchie should be asked to explain this “self cleaning” business, because its clearly not.
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June 6, 2003 at 5:28 pm #722273
emf
ParticipantA man from DCC said it would get, ‘a bit of a clean before the official opening in July’!!!
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June 13, 2003 at 6:52 pm #722274
GrahamH
ParticipantAbout the ‘official illumination’, is this just the tip being lit or the entire sculpture, as there are still no floodlights on any of the surrounding buildings, on any, including the rooftops.
And under 3 weeks to go…
Anyone know whats going on infront of the GPO?
Plaza work, by any freak of nature?
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June 13, 2003 at 7:12 pm #722275
Anonymous
Inactivewas thinking the same myself Graham, could’nt see any evidence of lighting to illuminate the base either …
I see the middle aviation light is now permanently on, it doesn’t look as bad as I thought it would, It will be interesting to see how bright or effective the top light will be, hope it doesn’t turn out to be a damp squib …
and yes, construction has started on the plaza in front of the GPO …
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June 14, 2003 at 10:32 pm #722276
Anonymous
InactiveReminds me of Michael Hopkins in response to criticism of his dour black-roofed (but rather wonderful, I am alone in thinking) building for MPs next to Big Ben in London.
He said all it needed was going over with wire wool to bring back the black to its intended bronze colour.
Trouble was, that getting teams of workmen to go over the vast acreage of roof with wire wool would cost millions. So the roof stays black.
I suspect the Spike may be cleaned for now, but will thereafter swiftly revert to darkness. Stainless steel does this, unless it has the magic Scotchbrite touch of our correspondent Alan D.
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June 16, 2003 at 10:27 pm #722277
merriman mick
ParticipantThere is another great monument on O’Connell
Street that never gets any of the glory it deserves, namely the Parnell Monument. It’s a real humdinger I think and always had me twisting my neck in the car to get a better look as we drove past it when I was a kid.So don’t get hung up on details on the Spike,
check out the Parnell monument or have a look at the Wellington monument up in the park, it must be 150 years old and there’s not a chip off it. -
June 16, 2003 at 10:36 pm #722278
GrahamH
ParticipantTrue, incidently the tallest oblisk in the world after Washington
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June 17, 2003 at 9:40 am #722279
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantWho originally made up that “fact”, I wonder? The Jefferson Davis monument in Kentucky is the second tallest in the USA, and is much taller, at 351 feet, than the Wellington monument. I’m sure there are other tall obelisks around the world as well, since they are related to the obsession with pyramids and illuminati various wealthy people have subscribed to over the ages (have a look at a dollar bill if you get the chance).
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June 17, 2003 at 1:38 pm #722280
emf
ParticipantIs the wellington monument in ‘The Park’ not the 2nd tallest in Europe?, —-Somebody get their ‘Big book of Obelisks’ out!!!
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June 17, 2003 at 1:41 pm #722281
kefu
ParticipantWhat height is the Wellington Monument?
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June 17, 2003 at 1:46 pm #722282
Andrew Duffy
Participant205 feet.
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June 18, 2003 at 6:52 pm #722283
GrahamH
ParticipantI read it in a comparitively credible book, I’ll mention no names, evidently not reliable enough.
I havn’t seen Wellington since I was about 6! Its always facinated me, esp the large plaques/panels on the base, I really should go & see it again.
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June 18, 2003 at 6:54 pm #722284
GrahamH
ParticipantAlthough the ‘fact’ of it being the tallest in the world at the time of it’s construction I belive is correct, it was to be taller only for a lack of funds.
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June 18, 2003 at 10:08 pm #722285
merriman mick
ParticipantIt’s not only the Wellington monument that is worth going up to the park to see, the whole park itself,from the gates in, is an architectural wonder. Mc Kee barracks is a joy to behold.
Has anyone viewed it since it was done up ?? -
June 18, 2003 at 10:11 pm #722286
naz78
Participanti heard something the other day which made me laugh. it just goes to show how sad people can be, these people will use any excuse to block a good project. oh well thank god the spike is up. i was so glad to hear the moaners didn’t get their way this time. the spike is here to stay!!! ha ha ha
“oh my goodness, what if the spike fell over and it came in through a shop window”
as if it would!!! they allowed for plenty of movement. i think it can sway up to 2 meters. these people will use any excuse. some of these excuses frighten me! people can be so strange at times. just like the tree huggers on o connell street (if the trees could only talk blah blah blah) freeky…
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June 18, 2003 at 10:31 pm #722287
naz78
ParticipantIn the begining though, were the plans for the spike taller? if so how tall? i must say it is a lovely spike even at it’s current height. it should be there in 100 years…
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June 19, 2003 at 12:09 pm #722288
Rory W
ParticipantInteresting fact #57 – there were plans afoot to put the Wellington Monument in Merrion Square, would have given the place a Trafalgar Square type feel to the place. Scary thought though
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June 19, 2003 at 2:51 pm #722289
PaulC
ParticipantNo it is 120metres high and and that was what was originally planned. It was suggested that it should be lower but that was rejected.
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June 19, 2003 at 3:00 pm #722290
Anonymous
InactiveDescription of the Spike given by its architect Ian Ritchie at a lecture the other night:
“the underground cathedral”.
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June 19, 2003 at 4:04 pm #722291
naz78
Participanti find it strange that people would want a lower spike in the first place! nelson’s pillar was also tall and stood where the spike stands now. If nelson’s pillar was also tall why did so many peope objest to the height of the spike? surely replacing a pillar that was tall with a spike should have been accepted by all people. it just goes to show you how narrow minded peploe can actually be. the spike looks so futuristic and modern. it is a very different idea/approach yes but that is what makes it so great.
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June 19, 2003 at 4:08 pm #722292
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantNelson’s Pillar was about 130 feet, not 130 metres. Imagine what blowing up a 130 metre high pillar would have done to O’Connell Street!
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June 19, 2003 at 4:24 pm #722293
naz78
Participantnelson’s pillar was still very tall though. the tall pillar was replaced by a tall slim spike. i think it is a lovely spike and adds to the skyline. peolpe shouldn’t be so quick to knock tall, modern structures. now that the spike is up plenty of people like it. if nelson’s pillar had of been only 20 feet tall for example, then that would have been a different story altogether. i am just stating that the pillar was also tall. the pillar rose up from o’ connell street, just like the spike does now.
it’s like those chimneys in the ringsend area. how can people object to skyscrapers being built down there when the chimneys are a massive height already? i think that this is a perfect area to build very tall skyscrapers. it would also help clean up the area. it looks to dirty and industrial.
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June 19, 2003 at 7:39 pm #722294
GrahamH
ParticipantNelson was 121 feet exactly.
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June 19, 2003 at 8:06 pm #722295
sw101
Participantnaz, how tall are you?
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June 19, 2003 at 8:15 pm #722296
naz78
Participantonly 6 feet, ah!
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June 24, 2003 at 9:47 am #722297
Rory W
ParticipantHow the sweet holy f*** can you have a lighting up ceremony at 11:30am on a July morning???
Somebody buy these guys a watch/sundial
This country has gone mad
This country has gone mad
This country has gone mad
This country has gone mad -
June 24, 2003 at 10:08 am #722298
urbanisto
ParticipantI was in a race to see if I could put that post up first! What a LOADS OF B*****!
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June 24, 2003 at 7:50 pm #722299
GrahamH
ParticipantI was thinking of that only the other day, having an illumination on one of the longest days of the year!
Now if it had been completed in December – in the middle of the Christmas rush, & illuminated at 5.00pm to thousands of adoring worshippers…
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July 4, 2003 at 10:36 am #722300
dpower
ParticipantFirstly, let me say that I like the Spire, but let’s face it- There have been too many mistakes. The whole thing has been one long amateur hour (more like an amateur decade!).
The concept itself wasn’t exactly a “thinker” and the structure and engineering involved was relatively simple.
Any architect worth his salt should have considered environmental damage- the shot-peening just doen’t work. Much harder to tarnish a smooth surface- you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Didn’t anyone even consider the shut lines just wouldn’t look right on such a vertical structure? Were any steps taken to minimize this effect? I don’t think so. Don’t think you can blame the manufacturers either- I believe they were working to ridiculous tolerences, so once again the blame lies with the architect.And don’t even get me started on the base design- the form was just fine, the “guilding” was unneccesary- why not just stick “Superspike 2000” on it somewhere and a “as seen on TV” decal. I thought guiding had died with the industrial revolution.
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July 4, 2003 at 11:31 am #722301
notjim
Participantas it happens i am a rocket scientist and i don’t think you are right about the shot-peening and staining.
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July 4, 2003 at 12:30 pm #722302
dpower
ParticipantFirstly, I don’t appreciate your condescending tone.
I believe the shot peening was a poor choice and a misuse of technology. I do concede that shot peening would help strengthen the structure- although in this case the effects would be negligible due to the sheer thickness of the steel. And any finish other than polishing weathers badly, whether its brushed aluminium or starked plastic.
Technology for technologies sake. Sounds great in the brochure stuff- “using a technique that was developed for the aerospace industry”.
Now lets talk aesthetics-
The polished section on the base looks better than the shot peened finish (just an opinion). -
July 4, 2003 at 9:47 pm #722303
GrahamH
ParticipantThe CC were offered 4 options for its finish, ranging from ‘extreme shot-peen’ – to less dimpled – to even less again – & finally a completely smooth polished finish.
I belive they did’nt go for the polished finish because they thought it would be ‘a bit much’, and so went for the next step up, ie, very lightly shot peened.
I’d say they were wary, in light of all the controversy surrouding it, that they might end up with a blindingly bright pole in the middle of the street & so opted for the less extreme option.
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July 4, 2003 at 10:30 pm #722304
notjim
Participantdpower, i really am a rocket scientist, that’s the thing. anyway, my feeling would be that the polished stainless steel would stain too, but that stain would look worse because you would see lines and patches of stain. however, that isn’t a professional opinion, i don’t actually know anything about stainless steel in my professional capacity (as a rocket scientist).
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July 7, 2003 at 10:03 am #722305
GregF
ParticipantIs’nt that ad a good one with the spire writing ‘thank you’ for the Special Olympics on the pitch of Croker……Great using two modern Irish emblems so as to lodge in the minds of the Irish public ….which can be very slow to grasp new additions to our urban landscape.
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July 7, 2003 at 10:28 am #722306
urbanisto
ParticipantWhat do you think of the lighting on the top….? I think it looks a bit naff…maybe it will take getting used to. The base will be uplighted won’t it but are their plans to light the Spire from surrounding buildings?
Also those dodgy bollards at the base don’t actually look as bad as first feared now they are complete. Personally, I think the should have been left out.
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July 7, 2003 at 10:36 am #722307
dpower
ParticipantSorry notjim, on reflection I was a little harsh, and I never doubted that you were a rocket scientist. I’m an Industrial Designer, and believe that you are quite right about the Spire staining even if it were polished- but I think the shot peening is far more likely to stain and harder to clean. I would love to have some information about the environmental impact of the spire- I don’t agree that it would have been “a bit much”.
I haven’t seen the lights yet (apart from the news) and I would love to go into town and watch the thing being unveiled this morning. Even got a mention by David McWilliams this morning on Newstalk. Mixed reviews. -
July 7, 2003 at 10:57 am #722308
GregF
ParticipantI thought the light on the top was going to be brighter
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July 7, 2003 at 1:32 pm #722309
Rory W
ParticipantIts photosensitive so the darker it gets the brighter it shines
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July 7, 2003 at 2:56 pm #722310
Anonymous
Inactivefrom the outskirts of the city it looks as if it gets brighter every few seconds and then fades again, guess its to do with the speed of light and all that stuff, think it looks good but thought the perforated section was longer …
any lights on the base yet ? and did they bother giving it that “bit of a clean” that was rumored ??
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July 7, 2003 at 3:03 pm #722311
urbanisto
ParticipantIt certainly didn’t look like they had cleaned it on Saturday, when I last saw it. I can’t imagine that cleaning it would be so small a job they would have done it on Sunday.
I was also thinking that it will be a nightmare to build the plaza and keep traffic running smoothly. Still the granite has started to arrive and the area has been smoothed out… progress at last.
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July 7, 2003 at 4:45 pm #722312
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantThere was a very big crane being built in O’Connell Street on Saturday, presumably to take the temporary light off the top, but it may have been used for cleaning it as well.
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July 7, 2003 at 7:26 pm #722313
GrahamH
ParticipantI only saw a glimpse of the lit tip on the news, is the illuminated part divided into 3 sections?
There appeared to be 2 lines going across the tip, dividing it into thirds which looked silly, could have been a visual distortion though, it was TV3 news after all.
But speaking of silly, the light half way up piercing through, looks like its there for good, the Irish Aviation Authority have got their way.
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July 7, 2003 at 10:34 pm #722314
notjim
Participantit is divided into three, not sure why. i have only seen it from about a mile away and its pretty good, very white, but not enough is lit. what’s the story with the floodlighting?
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July 8, 2003 at 9:26 am #722315
ew
ParticipantShould be split in 4×4 I thought. See
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/spike/spike-030115-18-tip-detail.jpg
I didn’t think it’d be noticable from the ground though.
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July 8, 2003 at 9:48 am #722316
GregF
ParticipantI saw the over-rated ‘cast bronze base’ and it just looked like an ordinary paving grill, that one see around a tree…. (but we lack them here too, a plonk of tar does the job). So much for the fancy talk and the original concept of having Mercury and lighting in it’s base. I saw the surface of the spire itself too and they never even cleaned it …..there is a marked contrast between the recently uncovered part and the part that has been exposed to the elements. So much for the reports of it being self cleaning and getting an odd polish now and again…..but since they can’t even polish it up for it’s opening ceremony ……well sure who cares, no one does ….fuck it all.
We deserve what we get here in Ireland….I’m sure the LUAS will be a disappointment too……sure wait till it’s vandalized as well. What a waste of money.
The out going Lord Mayor Dermot Lacey summed it all up in his naive and ignorant character when he objected to the proposal initially but on it’s opening was singing it’s praises. What an artless man of no vision like all of the TD’s and councillors that riddle our country. So much for our new Lord Mayor Royston Brady….no doubt he’ll be another dim witted artless clone.
Me…I’m off to join the masses of not giving a shite about anything either. -
July 8, 2003 at 10:52 am #722317
redeoin
ParticipantNow that the Spire has been up for a while, I am not 100% convinced by it, and would probably give it a 5 out of 10. This is bearing in mind that I was firm advocate of it based on the plans.
I like –
1. The height. It is very very high, and that is good.
2. The lights on top – they look really well, and shimmer when the spire sways.
3. it in the day when it is sunny – which is sadly rare enough
4. at night when it is lit up – as the stains and material is less evident.
I dislike –
1. The stainless steel: It looks like the taps in my kitchen, and I feel cheated because I had been persuaded it would look like something else. It looks tinny and cheap.
2. Cloudy Days: On cloudy days it looks especially dull and tinny and all the dirt on it looks highly visible. It looks like someone has been hurling icecream at it, as there lots of large blotches, never mind the large streaks as far as the eye can see.
3. The base: Were they insane. I can’t over the peeled wrapper look.
4. The location: I think on retrospect it does not in the architectural terms so beloved of the Dublin City Council ‘take it’s cues from it’s surroundings’. Talbot street is very rundown, and Henry St very narrow, and looking at the Spire from either of those angles always disappoints me, as it doesn’t elevate the character of the street. I probably would have opted for a stone structure of some sort, maybe half or two thirds as high. Stone has such inherent character as a material, it would have worked wonders.
However when the Street is complete, and the treescapes planted, it may fit in better. I would plant quite high trees close to the monument if possible, to at least attempt to integrate that peeled wrapper look into something more natural.
And why can’t they simply clean as far up as possible with a large firehose once a week? It would be done in every other city.
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July 8, 2003 at 1:19 pm #722318
dpower
ParticipantWhat do you know- perhaps government is transparent afterall- found the environmental impact report….
http://www.environ.ie/press/OConnellSt.html
Interesting:
Irish Aviation Authority: “In the light of the above measures we do not see the design height as a danger to aviation.” The Irish Aviation Authority submission states that their requirements have already been incorporated into the specification and design of the proposed development.Maybe Ritchie had no say…
“a more reflective surface shall be created over the lower 10 metres of the spire according to an artist’s design, as suggested in paragraph 3.2.21 of the EIS, to enhance close up views of the proposed monument;” -
July 9, 2003 at 11:20 am #722319
redeoin
ParticipantDoes anyone have the wherewithal to post the full text of yesterday’s Irish Time’s article on the Spire?
There is a tantalising bit of text on the homepage here, but after that thanks to the greed of the Irish Times it is still pay per view, even a day later….
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July 9, 2003 at 3:27 pm #722320
Rory W
ParticipantAs requested….
Does the Spire miss the point after a change to the design?
The newly-lit Spire of Dublin does not quite deliver all that was promised in 1998, writes Frank McDonald, Environment Editor.
What’s the point? That was a common reaction to Dublin’s Spire when a model of the soaring stainless steel needle for O’Connell Street was first unveiled in November 1998. Some people still hold this view today, six months after it was finally erected.
But the real question about the Spire ought to be “Where’s the point?” Because it was meant to taper to a pinnacle of cast optical glass, half-a-metre high, above 12 metres of perforated stainless steel through which light would be diffused from an uplighter within the structure.
As depicted at the time, this beacon was to emit a soft light, like the halo of a candle flame. Instead, not only is the light harshly white, but the Spire is topped by an even brighter aircraft warning light, held in place by a clasp above the tapering cone and separated from it. In other words, it does not come to a point at all. Yet the environmental impact statement (EIS) on the project, published in June 2000, clearly states: “The top 0.5 metres of the monument will be made of cast optical glass”, faceted to “make the tip refract and reflect sunlight.” Furthermore, the EIS stated baldly that “there will be no aircraft warning light fixed to the top of the monument”, as the architect – Mr Ian Ritchie – had “opted for the more sensitive specification of an apex constantly illuminated by luminaries within” as well as external floodlighting.
“This approach has been approved by the Irish Aviation Authority”, it said.
Yet the authority had stated in 1998, when Mr Ritchie’s scheme was short-listed in the design competition, that it did not see the need for an aircraft warning system, but subsequently changed its mind.
A spokeswoman said yesterday that, under 1994 regulations, anything higher than 90 metres “constitutes an obstacle to aviation and requires to be lit”. But she added that the authority had accepted the architectural lighting solution and did not insist on a separate light on top.
Despite the fact that O’Connell Street is not on any known flight path, the authority maintains that some aviation warning system is needed in the interest of safety – if only to protect the Garda helicopter, which has been particularly active in the city centre at night-time in recent weeks.
However, the bulge of the clasp holding the white aircraft warning light is clearly visible during daylight hours. At night, it becomes invisible, but the fact that it is physically separated from the architectural lighting within makes what was meant to be a pointed pinnacle look disjointed.
Instead of an internal light projecting its beam upwards to be diffused through some 11,300 perforations near the top, a much more powerful lighting rig has been installed within the perforated section of the spire. This would account for the harshness of the light it emits.
Mr Jim Barrett, the city architect, said yesterday that the original lighting scheme didn’t work and had to be redesigned, though he agreed that the aircraft warning light on top is “too strong”. But he added that there was a control mechanism to regulate the intensity of the lighting.
The upper part of the spire, above the glossier section near ground level, also looks somewhat weather-beaten after just six months.
This rather undermines early claims that the stainless steel would be “self-cleaning” and suggests that it will need to be cleaned every so often.
But though duller than it looked last January, the spire can still become a dazzling “blade of light” on sunny days, as Mr Tim Brick, deputy city engineer, observed yesterday.
It had also achieved its primary objective of making a powerful urban design statement in O’Connell Street.
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July 10, 2003 at 12:54 am #722321
GrahamH
ParticipantHmmmmm
We still have no external floodlighting.
I saw the tip lit up again, in fact its divided into 5 sections and looks utterly ridiculous, contrived & artificial – on television at least, maybe its better on the street.
And again, the light half way up is just egregiously pathetic.
Silly silly silly. -
July 11, 2003 at 4:47 pm #722322
-Donnacha-
ParticipantI think Frank MacDonald’s piece is very restrained.
Fact is, with a piece as minimalist as the Spike, the quality of the finish and attention to detail are everything. In this respect, we didn’t get what we were promised.
If the original artwork had shown a streaky, dirty pole with a tacky wrapping-paper design on the base, clearly visible joins all the way up, a completely unecessary ‘avaiation’ light 50 metres off the ground, a harsh white light-bulb effect on top, and no external floodlighting, would it have been built?
The fact that it sometimes look alright when the sun shines the right way isn’t good enough for a gigantic monument in the middle of our main street!
Get out the mops and buckets, tell the Irish Aviation Authority to stick their ‘safety’ lights and bring Ian Ritchie in front of a Tribunal, I say… -
July 11, 2003 at 7:30 pm #722323
GrahamH
ParticipantI agree that Frank is rather muted in his piece, maybe thats just in comparison with the outbursts on this thread!
Just about the paving at its base, there is little point in complaining about it being concrete, and that it will only be ripped up again in a few months, -ifthere was nothing but poured tarmac there as a temporary measure, we’d all be going nuts! I retract my earlier critisims of this aspect of the project.
(Thats not to say the whole project could’nt have been coordinated better so as to avoid such half hearted measures) -
July 12, 2003 at 10:24 pm #722324
kefu
ParticipantI think it now fulfils one of its main criteria in that it’s clearly visible from miles around at night. That in itself is worthwhile. I don’t agree about the aviation light half way – i think it actually looks quite nice.
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July 16, 2003 at 5:40 pm #722325
ew
ParticipantFrom the Indo:
“Managing The SpireProperty and facilities management firm, Irish Estates has taken over as official manager of The Spire in Dublin following its formal launch last week. This will entail the day-to-day inspection of The Spire and its immediate surroundings.
A strict maintenance regime will ensure the continuous operation of all systems such as the feature lighting, security systems, the rain-water pumps and damper system to ensure that flooding doesn’t occur within The Spire itself. “
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July 16, 2003 at 6:45 pm #722326
bluefoam
ParticipantI am disapointed. The design can be debated for years, but the engineering is poor.
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July 16, 2003 at 6:50 pm #722327
GrahamH
ParticipantI saw the bronze base of it on Monday, it was manky with all of the ridges full of dirt & cigarette butts.
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July 17, 2003 at 11:44 am #722328
Anonymous
InactiveThe ridges are unquestionably a bad idea – again, an idealistic idea rather than a practical one. Anyone who has even been on O’Connell St. would know that such ridges would become dirt trays almost immediately. It amazes me the lack of common sense used in most of the things around Dublin – like the green dial of the Time in the Slime.
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February 19, 2004 at 7:34 pm #722329
Anonymous
InactiveAll hail to the Spike
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February 19, 2004 at 8:07 pm #722330
GrahamH
ParticipantAha, you found it languishing in the Archiseek basement!
Was wondering when it would crop up again.
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February 20, 2004 at 1:31 am #722331
Anonymous
Inactivegood timing diaspora! the lights are back and from my vantage (8 miles away) seem to be a lot brighter than before …
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February 20, 2004 at 1:36 am #722332
Anonymous
Inactivethe aviation light seems to be brighter too …
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February 20, 2004 at 3:25 am #722333
Anonymous
InactiveIt would be incredible to see the whole thing, top to bottom, lit up at night.
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February 20, 2004 at 10:41 am #722334
Anonymous
InactiveI agree the rendering in FMcD’s Construction of Dublin had a sort of 1940’s floodlit charm.
I doubt that it would be difficult to create once the lighting units were housed securely.
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February 20, 2004 at 11:06 am #722335
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantLooked like the second normal light from the top was already broken last night. If this is the case, and in light (fnar) of the leaked memos about design team interference, Ian Ritchie should be ashamed of himself.
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February 20, 2004 at 2:49 pm #722336
shadow
ParticipantWhat leaked memos and where can they be read? Also was there a news item on eircom.net yesterday regarding the instability of the spire in high winds?
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February 23, 2004 at 10:10 am #722337
Andrew Duffy
ParticipantThere’s a mention of it here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-985478,00.html
…but I read a more in-depth article a while ago, possibly on unison.ie where there’s no search facility.
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February 23, 2004 at 11:51 am #722338
Anonymous
InactiveOriginally posted by shadow
Also was there a news item on eircom.net yesterday regarding the instability of the spire in high winds?The Indo group stung twice by fraudsters in one year.
From ‘the taking of Christ’ by Carravagio to the taking of the piss by Morlan.
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February 23, 2004 at 12:46 pm #722339
Morlan
ParticipantOriginally posted by Diaspora
The Indo group stung twice by fraudsters in one year.
From ‘the taking of Christ’ by Carravagio to the taking of the piss by Morlan.
๐ More to come…
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February 25, 2004 at 1:47 am #722340
BulldozerGirl
ParticipantHmm.. this thread is 59 pages long – I wonder why.
If this is the place for people to say what they think of the spike, I just want to say I don’t really think it deserves the amount of money they spent on it. It’s meaningless, unless it is meant to be a guide for lost people. Too bad it didn’t exist when I first came to Dublin and got lost in that area and nearly cried.
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February 25, 2004 at 9:39 am #722341
notjim
Participantits meaning is that we no longer need our monuments with meaning; it symbolizes our liberation from symbolism. it is also useful for giving directions and not really so expensive and, if it stops people crying, it was money well spent.
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February 25, 2004 at 10:19 am #722342
GregF
ParticipantThe white lights are back on ….and it shines like diamonds in the sky (with lucy maaan!)
That orange sodium street light looked shite. -
February 25, 2004 at 2:11 pm #722343
kefu
ParticipantIt’s now brighter than it’s ever been.
Also, if you stand directly underneath it now when it’s dark, it appears that there are dozens and dozens of little lights shining out.
That’s the first time that I’ve seen that effect, which was obviously the original intention of the perforated tip. -
February 26, 2004 at 6:12 pm #722344
Sue
ParticipantThe Spire is “meaningless”: what a tired old saw that has become. Why the hell does it have to mean anything or do you, BulldozerGirl, need to have a plaque at the bottom of every monument to explain what it’s all about?
I’ve seen the full FOI file on the Spire. There were hot and heavy exchanges between Dublin-London, architects-contractors over how things were being done. Nothing to do with the design, though. They were minor rows about where to put slabs and why engineers weren’t turning up on time.;)
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February 26, 2004 at 9:30 pm #722345
GrahamH
ParticipantPlease elaborate Sue!
The base is still so so disappointing, I hate it even more than I did at the time of unveiling.
It’s so rubbish, so messy, so lazy.And as for the stupid stupid line of discolouration just over the peeled Sellotape effect – why, why, why? It’s as if Ritchie decided that he had to acknowledge where it reaches street level, and so drew a straight line around three storeys up.
It’s so crass, so inappropriate, disruptiing the entire flow of the sculpture to the ground.
It’s the equivilant of bricking up the bottom 10 storeys of the Eiffel Tower to acknowledge the city’s skyline, and the fact that people on the ground can see that part of it up close.Why go to the effort of building such a massive structure, only to make the only part of the surface clearly visible from street level so crude and hugely disappointing.
It would be 100 times better to simply have continued the shot-peening down to the ground, creating a clasically elegant, simple design. -
February 27, 2004 at 2:24 am #722346
BulldozerGirl
ParticipantSue – I have the right to think and say that the spike is meaningless just as you have the right to think and say that I shouldn’t think and say the spike is meaningless.
Graham Hickey – I agree that the bottom part of the spike looks very bad. When I first saw it I thought it was damaged – then I thought it might be an engraving sort of thing of the map of the world or something, but I saw it was just a strange-looking thing.
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February 27, 2004 at 11:49 am #722347
notjim
ParticipantGraham Hickey, i have always liked the design at the bottom, but agree that the line of discoloration is a huge problem, it detracts alot from the spike when you are close to it. is it always going to be like that, or, when the whole thing is cleaned, will it look better, without the obvious line?
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February 27, 2004 at 3:07 pm #722348
GrahamH
ParticipantWasn’t it that people first thought that the discolouration was the result pollution affecting the top part while the bottom part was still wrapped up – but then it was confirmed that the line was in fact a deliberate design feature?
Considering it’s been up for over a year, somehow I think if it was pollution causing it, it would have mellowed by now as the bottom part was only wrapped up for a few weeks! -
February 28, 2004 at 11:53 am #722349
shaun
ParticipantGraham, the Spike should not be observed so
closely, it looks very cool and the designs at the bottom part are nice. -
March 1, 2004 at 10:22 am #722350
Anonymous
InactiveAre we to cast our eyes away from it then as we near it, or worse, when we actually pass right past it?
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March 1, 2004 at 10:38 am #722351
notjim
Participantthe difference in color is intentional? damn.
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March 2, 2004 at 9:31 pm #722352
GrahamH
ParticipantAs always it’s about opinion and taste etc, but still – havn’t met a single person who likes it yet…
I remember the first time I was with someone who was seeing it for the first time, he laughed and laughed and laughed.
I just cried.On a lighter note, the tip lighting looks great – at last! The 5 or 6 joins that were evident previously in the light are much less noticable now, it looks really good against a darkening deep blue sky.
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March 3, 2004 at 11:05 am #722353
-Donnacha-
ParticipantThey should just admit whatever effect they were going for at ground level didn’t work and give the base the same finish as the rest. I wonder can it be ‘shot-peened’ in place?
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March 3, 2004 at 6:33 pm #722354
d_d_dallas
ParticipantBring out your portable sand blaster and find out!!!
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March 4, 2004 at 11:49 pm #722355
BTH
ParticipantI agree fully – Surely theres bound to be some way to “fix” what was so obviously a poor idea executed incredibly badly. I’m quite fond of the spire as a whole and I’m sure it’ll look fantastic for years to come when all the lighting issues are finally resolved, particularly the general floodlighting. However the base section is a failure that has soured the entire scheme for many. The “patterning” is vile, the change in colour even worse. There MUST be some way to re-do it.
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May 10, 2004 at 5:25 pm #722356
Anonymous
InactiveIn the last few days I have read two newspaper articles where Frank McDonald refers to the essay about the Spire by Aaron Betsky which was linked to the AAI exhibition. Is this essay in the annual AAI publication or does anyone know where I could read it?
Thanks
Phil
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May 10, 2004 at 6:55 pm #722357
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterIt is in the new publication only…..
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May 11, 2004 at 8:49 am #722358
Anonymous
InactiveThanks for that Paul
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July 5, 2004 at 10:00 am #722359
blue
ParticipantCan we not get anything right/on budget/on time?……..
From the Sunday Times (Needs Registration)
‘Rustyรขโฌโข Spire clean-up will cost รขโยฌ30,000
Daniel McConnell and Jan BattlesTHIS time it is not a joke. The รขโยฌ4.8m Spire on OรขโฌโขConnell Street in Dublin will have to undergo an elaborate cleaning operation costing up to รขโยฌ30,000 to remove rust-like ribbons on its surface.
Dublin city council officials admitted this weekend that the monument, which was supposed to be self-cleaning, will have to be washed by special machines รขโฌโ possibly as often as every 18 months.
On April Foolsรขโฌโข Day, the Gerry Ryan radio show ran a mock item claiming that the expensive steel structure had rusted and would require significant funding to repair. RTE later admitted the feature was a spoof, but this time it appears the Spireรขโฌโขs problems are real. Reddish-brown streaks have appeared on the monument but its designer and engineers say it is dirt and not rust.
The first stage of the clean-up will take place in the autumn and will take three days to complete. A special crane will be brought in to allow the full height to be washed.
The Spire, which is the centre point of OรขโฌโขConnell Street, is seven times the height of the General Post Office beside it.
Michael OรขโฌโขNeill, the Dublin city engineer, said: รขโฌลA complete clean will need to be done once every 18 months to two years, meaning one will take place sometime later this year.
รขโฌลWe have estimated the cost of the Spireรขโฌโขs clean-up to be in the region of รขโยฌ25,000 to รขโยฌ30,000, as we will need to bring in a specialised crane to reach its summit.รขโฌย
When the 120m (390ft) structure was erected in January last year, the council and Ian Ritchie, the architect who designed it, said the stainless steel needle would be self-cleaning. All that would have to be done to maintain its appearance would be to clean the first 10ft to get rid of graffiti.
Stringent testing of the material was conducted prior to its erection to ensure that it could withstand the elements.
Ritchie said a small failure by a contractor to smooth out a number of the surfaces toward the top of the structure has caused dirt to gather. He said people could mistake this for rust. รขโฌลAny talk of the structure rusting is complete rubbish. The material went through a number of weather-conditioning tests and it passed with flying colours.รขโฌย
However, OรขโฌโขNeill rejected Ritchieรขโฌโขs explanation. รขโฌลThe contractors did a fantastic job. Each section lines up perfectly and we frankly couldnรขโฌโขt have asked for better.รขโฌย
Dublin city officials said the stainless steel structure, which was treated with a special coating to withstand Irelandรขโฌโขs weather, would not need a major refurbishment for some time.
After being billed as a blade of light for the new millennium, the Spireรขโฌโขs weather-beaten appearance is in danger of perpetuating Dublinรขโฌโขs dirty image. Another infamous art project in the capital, nicknamed รขโฌลthe time in the slimeรขโฌย, had to be abandoned. This was a digital clock submerged in the River Liffey that was to count down to the year 2000, but couldnรขโฌโขt be seen through the grimy water.
The Spire, which cost รขโยฌ4.8m, was the winning entry in the 1998 competition to replace Nelsonรขโฌโขs Pillar, which the IRA blew up in 1966.
The controversial design went through a number of legal battles before getting the green light and has since been the subject of much public debate about its merits.
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July 5, 2004 at 10:26 am #722360
-Donnacha-
ParticipantHardly surprising, but this can’t be allowed to be a permanent drain on the city’s budget. Someone is to blame for this – either Ian Ritchie or the contractors. DCC should pursue this legally and let whoever is responsible either fix it or foot the cleaning bills.
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July 5, 2004 at 10:35 am #722361
blue
ParticipantI totally agreed, it doesnรขโฌโขt do what it says on the tin, DCC quite rightly should get their money back.
I wonder could some sort of mechanical device be developed that would grip the outside of the spire and run up and down it to clean it or even bring in some abseilers. Bringing in a huge crane every 18 months just seems excessive.
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July 5, 2004 at 11:15 am #722362
Morlan
ParticipantIt should have been made of copper which would turn green over time. No need for cleaning.
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July 5, 2004 at 12:34 pm #722363
d_d_dallas
ParticipantCopper is a very pricey metal though…
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July 5, 2004 at 1:04 pm #722364
Morlan
ParticipantOriginally posted by d_d_dallas
Copper is a very pricey metal though…So is รขโยฌ1666.66 a month – which is what it’s gonna cost to keep mr spire clean.
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July 5, 2004 at 4:45 pm #722365
Plug
ParticipantShould’ve got Gormley in to do something. At least his stuff is supposed to go rusty!
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July 5, 2004 at 6:46 pm #722366
chewy
Participantso is it rusting or not?
to a layman how was it supposed to clean itself?
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July 5, 2004 at 7:46 pm #722367
asdasd
ParticipantStainless steel doesn’t rust unless the outer layer is damaged. The Spire looks fine to me, better than when the bottom part was removed from it’s packaging and seemed to show the discoloring from the dirt of dublin on the rest of the structure.
Now it looks nice and clean, maybe becuase there is less activity around it, less traffic on the street, and less construction. And it rained. which is what they said would happen – the accululated soot and dirt would be removed by rain.
The “rust” on the top ( which is clearly not rust, the article uses scare quotes to emphasise the fact even though they felt the need to add rust to the headline) is no big deal. Why bother cleaning it, why is this ‘rust” a problem, and why does anybody on this forum think it needs to be cleaned?
The article says
“After being billed as a blade of light for the new millennium, the Spireรขโฌโขs weather-beaten appearance is in danger of perpetuating Dublinรขโฌโขs dirty image.”Weather-beaten? Do they know the meaning of the word. I dont think this money needs to be spent, at least not for another few years. Look at the photos of th spire on the thread about O’Connell street, it looks fine to me.
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July 5, 2004 at 8:09 pm #722368
Plug
ParticipantI think it was a bit naive of someone to assume it was going to rain on a regular basis
๐ -
July 5, 2004 at 10:40 pm #722369
GrahamH
ParticipantThe article doesn’t actually say it’s rust, but there’s no doubt it needs cleaning.
I wasn’t on the street for about 4 weeks till recently and was astonished at how dirty it is, it is truly filthy when seen from Talbot St and other distant places, indeed the top third practically gleams in contrast with the lower reaches – the summer sun does it no favours when dirty. -
August 2, 2004 at 10:11 pm #722370
shaun
ParticipantHelp me here guys, bitter dispute with my brother-in-law over this, the question is…………..are those random marks on the lower section of the spike intentional or is the thing damaged ??
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August 3, 2004 at 1:00 am #722371
niall murphy
Participantyes its intentional. its been like that since it was unveiled
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August 3, 2004 at 10:22 am #722372
shaun
ParticipantThanks for that, they are indeed an interesting addition to the finished article.
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August 3, 2004 at 7:39 pm #722373
GrahamH
ParticipantThe Great Debate – is the Spike’s base intentional.
Still yet to come across someone who likes it.But just on the public opinion issue, late last year on RTE’s ‘Best and Worst’ aspects of 2003 programme, where 5000 householders were interviewed, the divide on the Spike was literally 50-50, it was voted the 10th worst thing about 2003 and the 10th best!
I’m surprised more people weren’t in favour of it, certainly my experience of it would be at least 70-80% in favour of it. Perhaps that’s just Dublin though, support probably falls through the floor outside Dublin/Leinster – what’s the difference… -
August 3, 2004 at 11:26 pm #722374
PaulC
ParticipantJust imagine that Dublin Council made the announcement tomorrow morning that the Spire is to be taken down and dumped. What would the public reaction be?
I would say there would be uproar from all sections. And I bet there would be a lot more that 50% of Dubs sorry to see it go. -
August 4, 2004 at 2:07 am #722375
Anonymous
InactiveI agree Paul & Graham it is an irreplaceable icon,
We all acknowledge its flaws but look at it as a symbol as what we hope will lead to better contemporary design. It has if nothing else given Irelands best shopping centre a sculpture.
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August 4, 2004 at 3:09 pm #722376
Sue
ParticipantWho cares what the plebs think anyway? What do they know? The usual response of Dublin howiyas to a work of this scale is to moan about the cost, complain that it should all have been spent on hospitals instead, and criticise it as the personal work of a politician they don’t like e.g. why is Bertie sticking up this pole in O’Connell Street.
The Spike is wonderful, O’Connell Street is getting there, the city is visibly improving -
August 4, 2004 at 4:03 pm #722377
Anonymous
InactiveI see that the chimneys at poolbeg have new flashy lights, very bright, kind of takes attention away from the spire from vantage point on the outskirts of the city …
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August 4, 2004 at 4:57 pm #722378
Morlan
ParticipantOriginally posted by Peter FitzPatrick
I see that the chimneys at poolbeg have new flashy lights, very bright, kind of takes attention away from the spire from vantage point on the outskirts of the city …Email from the ESB:
New chimney lights have been installed on Poolbeg Chimney No. 1 and are
under test at present. The previous lights were over thirty years of age,
were failing regularly and were in need of replacement as spare parts could
not be obtained.The Poolbeg chimneys are on the flight path from one of the runways at
Dublin Airport. Because of the height of the chimney, the lights are
aircraft warning lights rather than helicopter warning lights, which are
visible on lower chimneys in the Dublin area, including our own Combined
Cycle chimneys in Poolbeg. The new lights have to comply with the latest
aviation authority standards* for chimneys of that height (680′) and are
brighter than the old lights.Aviation standards dictate how the lights are set up and their intensity.
ESB is required to comply with these standards. The lights will be lit day
and night. There are three light intensity settings – day, twilight and
night, which is lowest.It is proposed that similar lights will be fitted to Chimney No. 2 in the
next few weeks once testing and commissioning is finished on Chimney No. 1* ICAO Annex 14, Volume 1, Third Edition July 1999, Chapter 6, Table
6.3Regards,
Denis McCabe -
August 4, 2004 at 5:28 pm #722379
asdasd
ParticipantWho cares what the plebs think anyway? What do they know? The usual response of Dublin howiyas to a work of this scale is to moan about the cost, complain that it should all have been spent on hospitals instead, and criticise it as the personal work of a politician they don’t like e.g. why is Bertie sticking up this pole in O’Connell Street.
Somtimes, to be fair , they say it could be spent on the homeless instead.
(We should try and solve the homeless problem, I think, so we can build bridges and roads with less noise from the usual suspects.)
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August 4, 2004 at 8:52 pm #722380
geraghtyg
Participantyeah, I saw the lights driving down the coast road through Clontarf on the way home from work last night and boy, are they bright!!!! When I got to my house in Baldoyle and looked up at the sky from the back garden, I could clearly see the light reflecting off the clouds, even with all the light pollution between Baldoyle and Poolbeg. They really do look pretty cool. I wonder if the ESB are putting the lights on tower 2? A good few of them flashing at night would look great, IMO ๐
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August 4, 2004 at 9:32 pm #722381
Anonymous
Inactiveyeah they will be installed on the second chimney in a couple of weeks according to the article a couple of posts back…
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August 4, 2004 at 10:39 pm #722382
ro_G
Participanti have to say the base of the Spire has grown on me over time
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August 5, 2004 at 9:14 am #722383
GregF
ParticipantOriginally posted by PaulC
Just imagine that Dublin Council made the announcement tomorrow morning that the Spire is to be taken down and dumped. What would the public reaction be?
I would say there would be uproar from all sections. And I bet there would be a lot more that 50% of Dubs sorry to see it go.….there’d be a bit of an uproar alright but it would fizzle out, I’d say. The lamentable ”floozie in the jacuzzi” has been totally forsaken by all. In hindsight, it was a good attraction and focal point in a way, despite it attracting the riff raff, drug peddalers, etc …. Would it be a good idea to have it re-modelled and re-instated again further up the street, which seems rather empty and bare?
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August 5, 2004 at 12:07 pm #722384
urbanisto
ParticipantDoes anyone know when the cleaning will take place. The Spire looks a stae at the moment – very grubby. Is the idea to flloodlight it dead and buried?
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August 23, 2004 at 12:07 pm #722385
Anonymous
Inactivehttp://www.rte.ie/comments/comments.html
We need more money in sport, why do you think we have no medals in Athens yet. Bertie should stop wasting the possible funds on ugly and purposeless things like the Spire on O’Connell street.
Ollie Kelly, Dublin -
August 23, 2004 at 12:18 pm #722386
Anonymous
Inactivetom mcgurk was giving out about our performance this morning & saying ‘look how the dutch have done, they’re a small nation …’
small geographically maybe, but holland’s population is 16m+, you can’t compare this against our 3.9m …
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August 23, 2004 at 9:10 pm #722387
Morlan
ParticipantI though the initial deal was to light up the whole Spire with flood lighting.. will this ever happen? If/when they do this they could get rid of that stupid avaiation strip of light halfway up, it spoils the spire’s linearness.
Another thing that bugs me is the abrupt metre of light at the top.. they should change it a red glowing pulse, maybe stick a smoke machine up there to give it the added effect of a giant fag in the middle of the street. They could use it to promote the smoking ban by luring punters out of the pubs to spark up.
Here’s some more of those slow shutter photos. They’re by Barry Mason link
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August 24, 2004 at 1:43 am #722388
PaulC
ParticipantThat is a fantastic photograph!
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August 24, 2004 at 4:58 am #722389
Paul Clerkin
Keymasteragreed
a very slow exposure – look for the “ghosts” -
August 24, 2004 at 8:54 pm #722390
Irishtown
ParticipantAwesome pictures. And I agree, they need to chuck the light strip on the midpoint.
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August 25, 2004 at 10:13 am #722391
Anonymous
InactiveI agree about the light in the middle. I think that the lights at the top should also be altered so that there is a gradual tapering of the amount of light emmitted. I must say that I am getting used to it as it is though. It makes it instantly recognisable from afar at night. Who took those photos. They are, I think, the best photos of Spire I have seen.
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August 25, 2004 at 10:32 am #722392
Morlan
ParticipantOriginally posted by phil
They are, I think, the best photos of Spire I have seen.Barry Mason, link above.
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August 25, 2004 at 10:51 am #722393
Anonymous
InactiveThanks for that Morlan. I did not see that link when I first looked at the photos.
Phil
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September 15, 2004 at 12:08 pm #722394
dargan
ParticipantI really like the spire but my main problem with it is that it is too small. When I llok at it I want it to grow up more out of the ground. Look forward to seeing the completion of O’Connell St.
Pictures are beautiful.
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September 15, 2004 at 2:15 pm #722395
GregF
ParticipantThey are really great photos……got any more of the city?
I think everyone now appreciates the O’Connell Street makeover despite all the hoo haa by the disgruntled at the start. That old story about the waste of 4 million on the Spire and what about the homeless seems to be forgotton.
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September 15, 2004 at 4:42 pm #722396
Sue
ParticipantThey’re are no genuinely homeless people left in Dublin. There is a bed for everyone – be it in a hostel, B&b or whatever
And who the hell wants to win medals in the Olympics? Does it put butter on anyone’s bread in ireland that Cian Whatsisface got a gold for jumping a few fences?
The thought of losing out on the Spire to pay for more of that is moronic. I hope it wins the Stirling prize, but I guess the Gherkin is unbeatable
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September 15, 2004 at 5:35 pm #722397
bluefoam
ParticipantOriginally posted by Sue
They’re are no genuinely homeless people left in Dublin. There is a bed for everyone – be it in a hostel, B&b or whateverAnd who the hell wants to win medals in the Olympics? Does it put butter on anyone’s bread in ireland that Cian Whatsisface got a gold for jumping a few fences?
The thought of losing out on the Spire to pay for more of that is moronic. I hope it wins the Stirling prize, but I guess the Gherkin is unbeatable
Sue you are genuinely shortsighted and selfish. I hope to never meet you.
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September 15, 2004 at 6:55 pm #722398
Doug C
ParticipantSue,
Thanks, you’ve given me the opportunity to suggest that you all pay a visit to this fine site.
ps I agree, it would be great if the Spire won.
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September 15, 2004 at 6:59 pm #722399
Anonymous
InactiveI agree with Sue that Ireland has had enough resources to build the spike as a stand alone project, in my opinion it has had these resources for at least a decade.
It is completely stupid that the spike is used as a stick to beat government with anytime a particular interest group or idiot feels that another subject area is underfunded. ๐ก
Focus & Simon should get more government cash for sure but there is a rationale enough to do this without cutting the urban renewal budget, ironically the places where most homeless people hang out.
The spike will pay for itself by contributing along with other improvements to reverse the decline in O’Connell St, therebye safegaurding the rates base. ๐
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September 15, 2004 at 8:52 pm #722400
shaun
ParticipantI agree with Sue here, the Spire is the best thing to have happened in Dublin since the Central bank, Dame street.
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September 16, 2004 at 9:00 pm #722401
GrahamH
ParticipantAs someone who walks through the city centre everyday, I’m all too well aware of the amount of homeless on the streets – passing the same people in their same places every, as well as newcomers, you really become aware of the contrast between so much wealth and poverty, esp at Christmas, and on freezing or wet days when rushing to get inside and get warm, passing by people who have to spend the whole day under blankets.
But as others say, the improvement of the urban environment, or once in a lifetime projects like the Spire should not be used to hold up a flame for the disadvantaged in society. This is not where public monies are disappearing. It is primarily an issue of inadequate distribution of wealth on a much larger scale. The recent flagging of possible further tax cuts as a result of an upturn in the economy says it all.
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September 17, 2004 at 9:27 am #722402
Anonymous
InactiveI think it should be realised that the last year a concerted effort was made to remove homeless people and beggars from the area between O’Connell Street and Grafton Street. This is all part and parcel of the ‘Dublin: Make the City Yours’ campaign, which interestingly enough used the Spire as part of its logo by putting it instead of the ‘L’ in Dublin. I am a fan of the spire as a sculptural piece, but there is no doubt that it is part and parcel of the campaign to sanitize the main shopping district of the city and move any thing that does not fit in with its new image to outside this area.
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September 18, 2004 at 11:56 am #722403
Anonymous
InactiveThere are three issues…
I almost never give to beggars, but I do regularly donate to the Simon. They have the expertise to allocate those moneys in the best way possible. Giving money to beggars is quite often simply going to the wrong people, and in the wrong way. So I don’t have a problem with moving beggars from an area. They simply are interfering with the proper running of society. HOWEVER, I would be completely in favour of them lobbying the government, etc, for more money…but in all honesty, who on earth thinks that a FF/PD government would care less about people with no vote (I will be presumptious and presume the majority don’t/can’t vote). I would be in favour of them protesting in front of Gov Buildings…but that will never happen due to the nature of the people involved, and their problems. The solution is either a progressive, ACTUALLY CARING ABOUT THEIR CITIZENS government, or campaiging by a homeless representative group.
Secondly, people seem to imagine that the 4million could have been spent on building homeless shelters. Generally there are plenty of beds and the problem lies with the homeless’s mental problems rather than the simplistic matter of a bed. A once-off lumpsum would be no use to this matter, and is better suited to a once-off item (such a building a sculpture, rejuvinating pride in their city for Dubliner’s). The continous flow of money required for an item such as providing adequate mental care (or similar items), is best served by taking it from a continious source…such as a 0.1% raise in tax (or as Graham Hickey points out, simply leaving taxes where they are, and using that money for the less wealthy, rather than putting more pay in already-fat wallets).
Thirdly, I pay taxes. I deserve to get something in return for that. I have both paid more than enough for BOTH a Spire and to see my more-unfortunate fellow citizens have their problems seen to. That’s what I pay taxes for…to get things done for MYSELF and for MY SOCIETY (which includes nice items directly for myself – like Spires…and which includes indirect items for myself – like helping less fortunate people)…not for governments funding racecourse clubhouses. It is the government’s incompentance, rather than the fault of the Spire, that is to blame.
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September 19, 2004 at 5:54 am #722404
Morlan
ParticipantIs there any mention of installing floodlighting to light up the whole structure (as this was in the original design)? Also, how has the sandblasting of the smooth median happened yet, if so, does it have much impact on the overall look of the area?
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September 21, 2004 at 7:53 pm #722405
GrahamH
ParticipantI don’t think the sandblasting has happened yet, the roadway still has the same texture and colour of the flanking pavements. It’s a shame the inset stone squares get so dirty on the road, the overall plaza pattern is somewhat diluted with the pavement squares being brighter and cleaner.
Presumably the Spire lighting will happen eventually – it’s too good an opportunity to miss. Many people have commented on it to me annoyed about it not being lit to date. It would further help turn O’Cll St into a nightime destination, rather than somewhere to avoid, let alone create a fantastic feature for the city at large. -
October 28, 2004 at 9:36 pm #722406
GrahamH
Participant28/10/2004
Here’s an question that I don’t think has been asked before here that would be very interesting to hear peoples views on.
I know it’s difficult to establish a context, esp with so much water under the bridge both in political and conservation fields, but if Nelson’s Pillar was blown up last night, do you think it would be rebuilt?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with Nelson re-erected?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with someone/something else on top?
Would the stump be moved and the whole pillar re-erected with Nelson on top somewhere less prominent?
Would the stump be moved and preserved in the Phoenix Park or similar place as an important piece of heritage – allowing something like the Spike to go ahead on O’Cll St?
Perhaps this is a poll topic – assuming it hasn’t been done before, although weirdly I doubt it’s even been discussed before.
What do people think would happen, and what do they think should happen? -
October 28, 2004 at 10:04 pm #722407
Jack White
ParticipantI think that a poll is in order, it is hard to know what people would choose given a choice, I’m sure that very few would want Nelson to symbolise a new Ireland. I’d like to think they’d choose the Spike but I suspect a mass poll would deliver a copy of the pillar with Collins or Pearse on it.
Originally posted by Graham Hickey
28/10/2004Here’s an question that I don’t think has been asked before here that would be very interesting to hear peoples views on.
I know it’s difficult to establish a context, esp with so much water under the bridge both in political and conservation fields, but if Nelson’s Pillar was blown up last night, do you think it would be rebuilt?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with Nelson re-erected?
Would it be rebuilt in-situ with someone/something else on top?
Would the stump be moved and the whole pillar re-erected with Nelson on top somewhere less prominent?
Would the stump be moved and preserved in the Phoenix Park or similar place as an important piece of heritage – allowing something like the Spike to go ahead on O’Cll St?
Perhaps this is a poll topic – assuming it hasn’t been done before, although weirdly I doubt it’s even been discussed before.
What do people think would happen, and what do they think should happen? -
October 29, 2004 at 9:47 am #722408
GregF
Participant….or anyone else who is flavour of the day.
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October 29, 2004 at 11:04 am #722409
Anonymous
InactiveWhat could be more fun would be a poll on who we would like to see dropped from a helicopter on to the top of the Spire! ๐
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October 29, 2004 at 7:41 pm #722410
Anonymous
InactiveOriginally posted by phil
What could be more fun would be a poll on who we would like to see dropped from a helicopter on to the top of the Spire! ๐The list of voting options would be too long, I think the original poll would be interesting my own choice would be Henry Joy McCracken.
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November 8, 2004 at 2:31 pm #722411
james_colhoun
ParticipantHello whoever might be reading this!
I’m a student at Trinity and I’m actually writting my thesis on the spire, researching the opinions of 3 groups – for want of a better term – of people: indigent people, academics and the general public. The final product wont be ready till March, 2005, but if anyone is interested, I’d be happy to keep you up-to-date regarding my research findings.
Bye for now,
James -
November 9, 2004 at 9:53 pm #722412
Anonymous
InactiveWhat is the central objective of the thesis?
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November 10, 2004 at 10:25 am #722413
burge_eye
Participant@james_colhoun wrote:
Hello whoever might be reading this!
I’m a student at Trinity and I’m actually writting my thesis on the spire, researching the opinions of 3 groups – for want of a better term – of people: indigent people, academics and the general public. The final product wont be ready till March, 2005, but if anyone is interested, I’d be happy to keep you up-to-date regarding my research findings.
Bye for now,
JamesIndigent or indignant? When does a member of the general public become indigent? Maybe you should separate the general public from tourists? I think it’s become a strong symbol of dublin and I think it’s a great scale for the city as a whole, especially as you can appreciate it without having to get too close to O’Connell Street!
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November 10, 2004 at 3:36 pm #722414
Paul Clerkin
KeymasterIs your thesis just public opinions? Does this qualify as original research these days? God, I should go back and do my doctorate…. I could just ask everyone on here and finish one in record quick time ๐
Seriously, unless you’re adding other information, it all sounds a little thin for a thesis…
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November 23, 2004 at 7:02 pm #722415
TLM
ParticipantLooking back through this thread…I’m absolutely horrified to hear that the Spire’s discolouration at the base is intentional! It makes the entire structure look cheap, tacky, industrial and unfinished.
Apparently the design on the base is based on a soil sample taken at some stage in the construction. Though I like that the base is reflective in places the current design is not working. At one stage a celtic design had been proposed…I dont know how well this would work either but anything would have been preferable to the current dirt inspired mess!
I think if more people were aware of this the general feeling would be the same.. This has to be put right!
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November 23, 2004 at 8:06 pm #722416
Gar
ParticipantFor the most part I like the Spire. I just wish it didn’t look so bloody dirty all the time, It looks particularly awful in dull weather, but spectacular on a bright sunny day. Will someone please clean off those dirty brown streaks !
I wish they would light it up more effectively at night though.
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November 24, 2004 at 10:40 am #722417
Lotts
ParticipantI think the very fact that the monument was build only almost as proposed is telling. We compromised on every aspect of it (except the location i suppose) and ended up with a poor version of what should have been. The Jury were absolutely correct that this is a monument reflective of Ireland in Europe in the 21 st century.
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January 3, 2005 at 1:22 am #722418
Anonymous
InactiveI know this is probably a really stupid question, but are the lights at the top of the Spire permanent? Its just when one looks at the images in the construction of Dublin its lighting is so very different.
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January 3, 2005 at 9:27 am #722419
Devin
ParticipantYeah, it was meant be a soft glow, but itรขโฌโขs a harsh light in reality. And there was never any explanation (that I read or heard anyway) of why they couldnรขโฌโขt make it like it was in the images. Does anyone know? I think this came up before way back in the thread – dunno what page.
Also irritating (and raised before) is the strip of light around the middle. Is it permanent? It looks silly. If thereรขโฌโขs a danger of something missing the light at the top but crashing into the middle, why canรขโฌโขt they light it gently from the roofs of the buildings instead?
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January 26, 2005 at 2:35 am #722420
GrahamH
ParticipantArrgh, just knew I’d forget it when the time came came but anyway: the Spike was exactly two years old as of last Friday the 21st of January – the day when the final segment was hoisted into place in 2002.
Seems like it was yesterday!
I was reading back on many of the pages in this thread and oh the innocence of it all ๐
Pleased to say that the report from RTE News on the Big Day is still available here and is well worth a look (as is the old pinky set & graphics that look so 1999 :))So what do people think of it now two years on? Do you even look at it anymore?
Can you contrast your first sight of it complete with your perspective on it now?
Irritatingly I can’t remember the first time seeing it complete, but can recall walking away from it afterwards, looking back from D’Olier St & then from Westmoreland and being amazed at its magnificent impact. I didn’t want to walk away south to get the bus!The fact that it’s still a work in progress because of outstanding issues like lighting and cleaning probably still keeps it alive for most of us here – to the extent it’ll almost be a pity to see it actually finished!
Overall I think Shane O’Toole summed up the Spike nicely recently – you simply cannot imagine the street without it.
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January 26, 2005 at 8:00 pm #722421
RevJamesFlynn
ParticipantI think it’s just fantastic. It’s the dogs gonads. It’s even more satisfying to hear friends who moaned incessantly about the Spire while it was being built, start to come around. It changes the entire street. Give that Richie guy a medal.
James
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January 27, 2005 at 10:48 am #722422
TLM
ParticipantI’m a fan too…but am disappointed by the different materials used between the base and upper part, the fact the tip is lit too harshly and by that annoying strip of light half way up it. Other than that it looks great though!
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February 11, 2005 at 1:10 pm #722423
Anonymous
InactiveAnyone seen the table tennis yet?
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February 11, 2005 at 2:11 pm #722424
emf
ParticipantThey have had to put railings up around the table. Takes away from the starkness of having the table isolated on the central median!
I think that stray balls were causing trouble for motorists!!!
There is also a sign now warning players not to throw balls at cars! -
February 11, 2005 at 4:05 pm #722425
Anonymous
Inactive@emf wrote:
They have had to put railings up around the table. Takes away from the starkness of having the table isolated on the central median!
I think that stray balls were causing trouble for motorists!!!
There is also a sign now warning players not to throw balls at cars!That is absolutely classic!
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August 20, 2005 at 11:33 pm #722426
Morlan
ParticipantI seem to remember that in the original plans for the Spire, it was to be illuminated from tip to toe. All we have now is a shitty strip of light at the top and that annoying sliver of light half way up. Anyone know of any plans to light it up completely? Maybe after Upper O’C is finished??
Anyway, how’s about this :p
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August 21, 2005 at 4:48 am #722427
GrahamH
Participantheheheh – as screwy as ever Morlan ๐
AND you’ve managed to satisfy all the whingers by providing that all important viewing point – they can all climb up the service ladders!
The concrete would’ve matched the archie lampposts too were they still in place ๐As an aside that’s one of the very few viewpoints on the street that really captures the beauty of Johnston’s portico – I really like it, a lot of people don’t I know, but much of the ‘weight’ that’s often criticised is lost from this position, a view no doubt Johnston considered when draughting. It is imposing rather than heavy when observed from here.
O’Connell St was afterall a very different place in 1814… -
August 21, 2005 at 5:40 am #722428
Morlan
Participant@Graham Hickey wrote:
they can all climb up the service ladders!
:d Haha, yeah I can just imagine it. “20 euro up to the top, common now, move along! move along!”
Anyway, it’s my photoshop job but not my original photo. It’s almost impossible to get a shot from this angle. The photographer must have been waiting a loooong time for the traffic to clear, and spitting venom at pedestrians too!
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August 21, 2005 at 9:01 pm #722429
dave123
ParticipantNo offence….
What a waste of money…
Ppl come to Dublin and see a huge pin, ๐ฎ
Itรขโฌโขs even difficult to get a full picture of it ๐กAnyway a can of beans would look architecturally better in my view
Yours Sincerely
David123
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June 21, 2006 at 8:52 pm #722430
Anonymous
InactiveI saw this on Boards http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054948826
A good idea or frivolous humour?
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November 4, 2006 at 11:37 am #722431
Morlan
ParticipantThe Spire is a waste of money if it continues to look as it does.
Taken by: http://flickr.com/photos/alistercoyne/26134125/The Spire has to be an important and focal part of the city centre. The whole sculpture MUST be floodlit from top to bottom in order for it to have a notable impact to tourists and locals at night.
As it stands, 80% of the sculpture is practically invisible at night. The illuminated top part of the monument looks, and to be totally honest, stupid. ๐
A few simple floodlights mounted on the GPO and surrounding buildings would have an immense impact on the monument for little cost.
The many comments I’ve read about the Spire (from non-Dubliners) over at Flickr.com suggests that the monument is seriously underperforming at night.
So what’s going to happen? The DCC will do nothing for as long as possible. They will probably employ the cheapest electricians in town to bang up a few 500W floodlights instead of hiring professional lighting designers.
Oh Dublin. So much potential but nobody’s arsed really, are they? :rolleyes:
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November 6, 2006 at 2:13 pm #722432
fergalr
ParticipantWhen it comes to politics and a will to see public issues dealt with efficienctly and competently, we are shockingly poor. I am sometimes so ashamed at the amateur nature of this country.
I have always been a big fan of the spike (did you see the runners up’s ideas??) and I cannot believe that the floodlighting that was planned SO many years ago has still not been put up.Dublin is meant to be the capital city of a Western nation….how can we not even do this?
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November 6, 2006 at 2:17 pm #722433
fergalr
Participant@Hugh wrote:
The floodlit Spike will be a wonder. I’m assuming they are lighting it, now?
You would’ve thought that at some point in the last 4 years they would indeed have done so. Come back Britain, all is forgive.
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November 6, 2006 at 2:56 pm #722434
The Denouncer
ParticipantOriginally posted by fergair
You would’ve thought that at some point in the last 4 years they would indeed have done so. Come back Britain, all is forgiveCome back Britain? Because you are upset about lighting a piece of junk like the Spike? Oh yes, with all the money flowing into London things would be much better..:rolleyes:
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November 6, 2006 at 3:35 pm #722435
fergalr
ParticipantIt’s pitch black at night..it’s like something from 1980s Eastern Europe; as if we can’t afford to light it.
For all Britain’s problems, they seem a bit more clued in about completing cultural projects and I wish we had the same reserve of ability in that regard here. -
July 25, 2009 at 2:24 pm #722436
Anonymous
Inactivehttp://www.rbkc.gov.uk/exhibitionroad/home.html
It has been cloned!
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July 26, 2009 at 10:48 am #722437
rumpelstiltskin
Participant@PVC King wrote:
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/exhibitionroad/home.html
It has been cloned!
I don’t understand this post.
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