North Lotts Developments

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    • #710207
      johnny21
      Participant

      New thread for the sites between spencer dock and point village…..cant find suitable thread to post msgs on these sites so it deserves its own thread. Just adding a pic of whats currently under development and sites yet to be developed along the north quays…..!! liam carrolls development progressing well:D:D Render of the anglo irish bank hq development.:cool::cool:

    • #804204
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      How does the recent court ruling affect (effect?:p) these developments?

    • #804205
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      They’ve completely stopped construction from what I can see!

    • #804206
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Surely the development will eventually get the ok from the court or will it……???? its a great building,one of the best in the docks if completely built. Anybody have any info on whats happening next if the development has stopped!!???:mad:

    • #804207
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      One would assume it will prob get the go ahead eventually, but who knows? Anglo Irish may well be happy for the development to fall through given their current financial circumstances. The development itself was proposed to extend all the way down to the next (ruinous) building seen on the right hand side of the picture. To the left spencer dock block d, e and g are proposed by treasury holdings, there’s pictures of these elsewhere on the forum.

    • #804208
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Attached is a few pics of what’s proposed next door! It would make for a very good vista if all was constructed.

    • #804209
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Along with a few high rises it would be a great vista!!

      Recent pic of the north docks, pity you only barely see the ncc roof from this angle. If the ncc was positioned to the edge of dock and pwc HQ pulled back from the dock, you be able to see the complete front of the ncc from the east of the docklands.:(

    • #804210
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @donalbarry7 wrote:

      One would assume it will prob get the go ahead eventually, but who knows? .

      A new masterplan is currently being drawn up, it’d be a shock if it doesn’t include buildings of the height Carroll was building

    • #804211
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      johnnny21: doesn’t the fact that you can’t ‘see’ ncc from where you suggested just demonstrate what an uncoordinated mess it all really is? If anybody thinks this is what passes for townscape in a prestige area, then it’s not just a financial crisis we have. Whoever proposed that mis-shapen lump behind those period buildings should be done for sub-prime design!

    • #804212
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yes it is a bit of a mess!!!The ddda masterplans for docks were constantly changed because they realised they made mistakes everywhere from poor architecture, heights and landmarks etc etc!! But lets hope they learn from mistakes in future sites/developments. There 2008 masterplan might help sort some of the the mess out…!!!

    • #804213
      admin
      Keymaster

      @johnglas wrote:

      johnnny21: doesn’t the fact that you can’t ‘see’ ncc from where you suggested just demonstrate what an uncoordinated mess it all really is? If anybody thinks this is what passes for townscape in a prestige area, then it’s not just a financial crisis we have. Whoever proposed that mis-shapen lump behind those period buildings should be done for sub-prime design!

      It confirms that STW paid no attention whatsoever to what would adjoin their PWC fortress. That building is absolutely devoid of context.

    • #804214
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Peter you are correct on the PWC building but now that most of the glass has been added to the front of the conference centre there is no doubt what the most dominant building is on this part of the liffey

    • #804215
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Gaaaaaaaaaaah.

      The pics shown are lovely.

      But put another 10 storeys onto it ffs.
      It just look pathetic to have these squarish building’s built all the same height. They just wouldn’t have this crap shits blocks in other cities. They wouldn’t spend millions on designing low rise city centre redevelopment plots. They just wouldn’t build this low on the city riverfronts anywhere else in the world in this day and age.

      Look at many examples.
      Rotterdam
      Auckland
      Sydney
      London
      Barcelona

      Even cities in Eastern Europe are building high rises.

      Many cities even smaller on Dublin are capitlising on building gleaming high rise towers on their grand riverfronts.

      It was first all square box buildings in the first ,masterplan. After a few years, of the DDDA going, oh we’ve made mistakes on our first masterplan of the Docks. it’s was then changed to square box buildings with a few landmark towers. Oh great…………

      NOW the DDDA are finally going ok, we’ve made mistakes again. We need proper high rise cluster towers in order to create a proper urban framework for this area within the city.

      bla bla bla. Its like highracknaphobia in this country.

      The buiildings are bland all being 6- 9 storeys ffs.

    • #804216
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      dave123: you’re just dead wrong and high-rise equates with neither high-density nor ‘modern’; I think you’re thinking of Oz as the ideal modern city (as in ‘The Wizard of…’) – it’s all fantasy and make-believe. The Docklands are (in part) depressing because of the badness and blandness of much of the design, but you can get bad and bland high-rise, and they tend to kill the street-life around them stone dead.

    • #804217
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      They’re not evil you know, high rises. If you stay perfectly still, they wont fall on you.

    • #804218
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just like constuction cranes? Oh, yes they do (eventually). And you know, if you lift your eyes somewhere between pavement level and infinity, non-highrises can be interesting.

    • #804219
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Of course they can, NCC is beautiful, as is the GPO. I’ll just invert and reiterate the statement.
      Cranes are not to be trusted, you know this john.

    • #804220
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Superb photo – Thats a superb sky in that photo Johnny21

    • #804221
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      “NCC is beautiful”
      I never thought I see that. After my previous attack on this lump of shite and the abuse I got in return, I really should let it go, but I’m afraid I can’t, the NCC is a crime against all the sensibilities I hold dear, it’s nothing short of a travesty. I’m not a conservationist by any stretch, and I’m not against big buildings, but I saw this from Merrion Square recently and it’s a fucking disgrace, Kevin Roche has done nothing of interest since he won the Pritzker Prize in ’82, it’s like something a 1st year architecture student might present as their first house design, but it’s been blown up to the point where it ceases to be funny, and the fact that it then gets built, is like a bad dream.
      If a crude, overblown, glorified, gimic by a has-been is now what passes as architecture then I want out.
      But, yes nice photo Johnny21… photomerge CS3?

    • #804222
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      not sure if this is in the right thread as I’m not that familiar with the Docklands…but the Sean O’ Casey Community centre is looking great

      http://ireland.archiseek.com/news/2008/000269.html

    • #804223
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Alrady posted on the “East Wall Community Centre” thread.

    • #804224
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @spoil_sport wrote:

      “NCC is beautiful”
      I never thought I see that. After my previous attack on this lump of shite and the abuse I got in return, I really should let it go, but I’m afraid I can’t, the NCC is a crime against all the sensibilities I hold dear, it’s nothing short of a travesty. I’m not a conservationist by any stretch, and I’m not against big buildings, but I saw this from Merrion Square recently and it’s a fucking disgrace, Kevin Roche has done nothing of interest since he won the Pritzker Prize in ’82, it’s like something a 1st year architecture student might present as their first house design, but it’s been blown up to the point where it ceases to be funny, and the fact that it then gets built, is like a bad dream.
      If a crude, overblown, glorified, gimic by a has-been is now what passes as architecture then I want out.
      But, yes nice photo Johnny21… photomerge CS3?

      Tastes vary I guess, I do not know how you are not more offended by PWC, there’s a travesty. Maybe you’d feel better about the ncc if it wasnt in such a crap context?

    • #804225
      Anonymous
      Inactive
      spoil_sport wrote:

      Ah s_s, you know you’re going to get burned, yet you are strangely drawn to this, like a moth to the flame.


      Photos from last Friday evening.

      On the issue of what may be wrong with this building, to me it’s that glass entrance lobby that is, potentially, going to kill it.

      If the design of the NCC had one thing going for it, it was the purity of the idea, two simple shapes (sorry volumns) intersecting each other, nothing else. Very few major buildings are that uncluttered, that free of prevailing trends, coloured panels, angular stuck-on bits, ‘eco’ grills, etc. etc.

      I could be wrong, but isn’t sticking a curved glass lobby onto the bottom of the tilted glass drum just going to weaken the whole thing and kill the purity?

      Then again maybe we won’t even notice it.

    • #804226
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      no cranes to be seen i see,they have gotten use to walking around the fair city on there own now

    • #804227
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @johnny21 wrote:

      New thread for the sites between spencer dock and point village…..cant find suitable thread to post msgs on these sites so it deserves its own thread. Just adding a pic of whats currently under development and sites yet to be developed along the north quays…..!! liam carrolls development progressing well:D:D Render of the anglo irish bank hq development.:cool::cool:

      Great pic up top.:)

    • #804228
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      i agree, in about ten years time you should go back to that point and take another photo.It would be great to match the two and see the changes

    • #804229
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Latest picture of the ncc and north lotts

    • #804230
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      :eek::eek::eek:

    • #804231
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      God that PWC building is an absolute disgrace… How could the “designers” have thought that a fire escape core was an appropriate facade to the public space in front of the NCC?? Revolting…

    • #804232
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Pwc HQ is horrible and sticks out like sore thumb.Ruins the spencer dock and north lotts area……. Cut off all the chimney stacks, might make it look at bit better!!!!!!:eek::eek:

      The height between the ncc and citigroup building(and the rest of the buildings along the docks of the ifsc) is stupid……why so low???answer; the ddda’s great plan:rolleyes:.:mad::mad:

    • #804233
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      DUBLIN’S CITY HIGHRISE PLAN
      Dublin City Council will have new principles for locating high-rise buildings in Dublin put before them at a meeting tomorrow. Earlier this month, council planners published a review of densities and heights in the city, detailing 15 locations where high-rise buildings are permitted. The review lays out the criteria for developers seeking to build in each of the 15 locations.

      The council’s strategic planning committee will vote on a draft variation to the development plan as the first step to including these locations into the Dublin City Development Plan. The principles dictate that buildings of 16 storeys or more will be permitted in only five areas of the city, including the Docklands, Connolly Station area, George’s Quay, the Digital Hub and Heuston Street area.

      Buildings of eight to 15 storeys will be permitted in a further 10 locations, including, Phibsborough, Grangegorman, the ‘north fringe’, Clonsaugh Industrial Estate, Ballymun, Pelletstown, the Dublin Industrial Estate near Cabra, Ballyfermot, Parkwest/Cherry Orchard, and the Naas Road near the intersection of the Long Mile Road.

      From architecturenow.ie

    • #804234
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Shouldn’t that go in the Highrise thread?

      Also, could you cite your sources in future, please?

    • #804235
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @johnny21 wrote:

      Pwc HQ is horrible and sticks out like sore thumb.Ruins the spencer dock and north lotts area……. Cut off all the chimney stacks, might make it look at bit better!!!!!!:eek::eek:

      The height between the ncc and citigroup building(and the rest of the buildings along the docks of the ifsc) is stupid……why so low???answer; the ddda’s great plan:rolleyes:.:mad::mad:

      Can you elaborate on this please? Do you have more details about why the skyline exists in its current form?

    • #804236
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @ctesiphon wrote:

      Shouldn’t that go in the Highrise thread?

      It relates to this dockland area thats why i put it in this thread.I could put in highrise thread…….if needed.

    • #804237
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @phil wrote:

      Can you elaborate on this please? Do you have more details about why the skyline exists in its current form?

      If you look in the picture above you see the height difference between the buildings on the left of the NCC/PWC HQ. Buildings on the left only 4/5 storeys(why when its in such a prime area should the height be restricted to 4/5 storeys high, 8 or 9 storeys should be more appropriate for that area, should it not??) and the NCC and PWC are 8 storeys plus. The reason why the skyline is like this because of ddda’s plan for ifsc area was wrong in terms of height!!!

    • #804238
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Which plan do you refer to? Have you done any research in to the economic or social context in which the IFSC was constructed? Also, I am not sure that they are all 4 to 5 storeys. Clarion Quay apartments are about eight storey’s aren’t they?

    • #804239
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @phil wrote:

      Which plan do you refer to? Have you done any research in to the economic or social context in which the IFSC was constructed? Also, I am not sure that they are all 4 to 5 storeys. Clarion Quay apartments are about eight storey’s aren’t they?

      The plan is the Custom House Docks Development Planning Scheme. All im saying is that the ddda got the heights wrong, the height difference between the custom house docks and north lotts is wrong, as you can see from the photo the two areas dont blend. Yes the Clarion Quay,Mayor Square and other apartment buildings are 8 storeys high but are more or less the same height as the office buildings.

    • #804240
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Does this mean that the height difference between the new Spencer Docks buildings and the retained rail freight buildings don’t blend either? I am failing to see why you use words like ‘wrong’ and ‘stupid’ in relation to the heights of these buildings when you don’t seem to have any real background information on the planning context of this area.

    • #804241
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I have to say the PWC building is a real shocker, dull and grey, blends into the sky on a cloudy day, depressing really…and blocks views of NCC from east.

      Regarding the height of IFSC I & II its obviously too low in urban design terms fronting the reiver given its width and the greater height that will undoubtedly be achieved at Spencer Dock wil unbalance the whole stretch as it suddenly steps up, albeit not by much.

    • #804242
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Personally I love the PWC building. Those cut off chimneys give it a wonderful zoomorphic quality – somehow reminds me of a fox. Great sense of movement too – it seems to be moving out towards the river every time I see it. It’s certainly better than the other STW building across the river which is very blocky, static and lacks any sort of character.

      If you want bland look at the building to the left of the NCC. Looks like it was designed in the 50s

    • #804243
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ncc Pic!!!

    • #804244
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @PTB wrote:

      Personally I love the PWC building. Those cut off chimneys give it a wonderful zoomorphic quality – somehow reminds me of a fox. Great sense of movement too – it seems to be moving out towards the river every time I see it.

      Can I have some of whatever youre on PTB? πŸ™‚

      I guess it shows how everyone sees things differently. Personally I think that the entire Spencer Dock development including PWC is utterly devoid of any architectural interest and ranges from bland at best to downright ugly and opressive at its most visible. The STW scheme across the river is at least a unified and elegantly resolved building, not a collection of disparite facade treatments like PWC. Even the little white building to the west of NCC doesn’t shout out it’s shortcomings in quite the manner of the PWC monstrosity.

    • #804245
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Carrolls office on the north wall quay is to go ahead.
      http://www.herald.ie/national-news/carroll-can-keep-block-1595578.html cool:

    • #804246
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Its probably one of the better looking ones in the area.

    • #804247
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @archipig wrote:

      Its probably one of the better looking ones in the area.

      YES,by far in the whole docklands area…..!:D

    • #804248
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      any pics?

    • #804249
      Anonymous
      Inactive
    • #804250
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @alonso wrote:

      any pics?

      Architects are Traynor O’Toole, details on project page under office development. http://www.totarch.ie/ Thats the only pic i have but more detail on website.

    • #804251
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I don’t think Ms Justice Geoghegan will take kindly to that to be honest.

    • #804252
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      is Anglo Irish even still around? aren’t they in serious financial trouble?

    • #804253
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @johnny21 wrote:

      Architects are Traynor O’Toole, details on project page under office development. http://www.totarch.ie/ Thats the only pic i have but more detail on website.

      Surely thats speculative whether it will turn out like that now?

      The city council gave Mr Carroll’s North Quay Investments a retention order for the building which means the structure can be kept as it is but that planning permission is needed for further work needed to finish the building

    • #804254
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @jdivision wrote:

      I don’t think Ms Justice Geoghegan will take kindly to that to be honest.

      Why do you say that? From what I remember reading, she expressed the opinion that Caroll is entitled to apply for retention permission.

    • #804255
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      On the NCC center, love or hate its design – and it seems people will only do one or the other – I myself am rather disappointed with the stuff they have chosen for the cladding of the main block. I work on SJRQ and have it opposite me all day, and when it rains, that pinky-beige stone looks like it has massive sweaty armpits… The whole thing looks really awful in the rain and I can already see it aging quite disgracefully. Will try to get a pic next time there’s some rain – not that that ever happens in Ireland, right? πŸ˜€

    • #804256
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @poukai wrote:

      On the NCC center, love or hate its design – and it seems people will only do one or the other – I myself am rather disappointed with the stuff they have chosen for the cladding of the main block. I work on SJRQ and have it opposite me all day, and when it rains, that pinky-beige stone looks like it has massive sweaty armpits… The whole thing looks really awful in the rain and I can already see it aging quite disgracefully. Will try to get a pic next time there’s some rain – not that that ever happens in Ireland, right? πŸ˜€

      Indeed, very true Poukai. I dunno why architects choose meterials that don’t weather very well in this damp Irish climate.

    • #804257
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @JoePublic wrote:

      Why do you say that? From what I remember reading, she expressed the opinion that Caroll is entitled to apply for retention permission.

      But there’s another case before her in relation to the building. In addition, the DDDA basically lobbied for the retention and Dublin CC broke its own planning guidelines to allow it. They rejected the original plan, which is still the current plan, based on a DDDA objection don’t forget.

    • #804258
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Here ya go, forgive crappiness of photo, but it gives you a pretty good idea of how horrible the cladding looks… Reminds me of a 1960’s school look.

    • #804259
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Sean dunne has appealed the go-ahead from DCC for liam carroll’s anglo development.

    • #804260
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Actually, I have only just noticed the tiny garden shed that seems to have been erected on the roof (on the right on pic), I’m guessing for the workers to have a cuppa in. Love it! Wish they would leave it as a permanent feature πŸ˜€

    • #804261
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @jdivision wrote:

      Sean dunne has appealed the go-ahead from DCC for liam carroll’s anglo development.

      Did it receive go-ahead permission, wasn’t it just retension permission of the existing skeleton?

    • #804262
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Retention plus completion was granted

    • #804263
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Treasury holdings have revised plans for spencer dock buildings DE,PQ and interesting highrise plan for north wall quay beside the 02, Designed by Pritzker prize winning architect, Zaha Hadid!!!

    • #804264
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      To coin a phrase… she canNOT be serious!

    • #804265
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @johnglas wrote:

      To coin a phrase… she canNOT be serious!

      Haha, true that.

      please excuse my language, but fuck that looks cool:D

      Even if it wont be built!

    • #804266
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      holy lamplight batman!!! that is one amazing looking tower. Are they serious about it? conjsidering these difficult times? Sure would be a giant leap forward for Dublin kind.

    • #804267
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is it really supposed to resemble a pint ?

    • #804268
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Umm, they just ripped it from the other side of the river:confused:

    • #804269
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is it just a nice mock-up plan or what might be done, or have they been asked to draw up designs for it as they’re willing to go ahead and build a high rise at this time?

    • #804270
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @archipig wrote:

      Is it really supposed to resemble a pint ?

      to go with the keg;)
      and the tap otherwise known as the bridge

    • #804271
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Impressive.

    • #804272
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All renders were taken from treasury holdings website in development and investment section. Wether they get planning permission or not is another thing, but in line with ddda plans for 7/8 100m highrise buildings at the docklands!!!!!:cool: Highrise plan is Replacing there old plan for the site.

    • #804273
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      wasn’t a fan of the old proposal just a big glass block basically but the pint glass thing is definately impressive. Hope it goea ahead

    • #804274
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The ‘Pint-at-the-Point’?

      Sorry, couldn’t help it.

    • #804275
      Anonymous
      Inactive


      (c) Gerrit Gillespie Photography – Buenos Aires, Argentina

      Ten years of bullshit proposals for ‘Landmark’ towers around the city. Why couldn’t we just have allocated one area in the North Lotts for highrise? So much bickering has left us with nothing but low density business parks.

    • #804276
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ten years of bullshit proposals for ‘Landmark’ towers around the city. Why couldn’t we just have allocated one area in the North Lotts for highrise? So much bickering has left us with nothing but low density business parks.

      Maybe its not too late Morlan, there is still alot of land on the north lotts for future high rise development!!!

    • #804277
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Lol, love archipig’s pint allusion, and missarchi’s keg which the nat convention centre does resemble in such context.

      In fairness folks, this is never going to be built and we know it. Worse actually than realising it’s not going to be built would be to grant it permission knowing this, which would up the speculation value of the land – and nothing at all would get built, as an unrealisable price gets fixed to the site.

      Still, the drawings looked nice πŸ˜‰

    • #804278
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Die pessimist -_-

      Tbh though, the market here is not forever dead, odd to see so many people reacting the way they are when recession is such a natural part of the capitalist philosophy, it even serves a purpose – an important one. This recession may be worse than others, but in the long term its just part of the process. This may be hard to accept when your job is on the line, but when we’re talking about shiny pint-objectified runner-up jewels as above, its not totally inconducive to their development which is long term also. Might not be built soon, but the market will inevitably recover and with it will developers appetite for profit-making ego-boosters, which is a sure thing, and this tower just happens to cover both bases.

      Dont get me wrong, I am not a proponent of the ultra-capitalist model, I believe in Europes semi-socialism. I also use too many hyphen-words πŸ˜›

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