moore street

if theres anywhere needs it more pls tell me. moore street has become so delapitated its not even funny.

any images of the bucholz mcevoy plan? has it been directly outsourced to them or was there a call for proposals?

i don’t agree sw101, the atmosphere in Moore St is great, its like being on Canal St. every city should have an area that is run down but still busy, you don’t want everywhere to be either high-street or no-go. I would prefer if they put their efforts into knocking the fish-market and developing the planned market square.

atmosphere? its a pretty unwelcoming place for blow-ins and tourists. the oppressive ilac hood destroys the upper end of it, i like the henry street end where its open and people arent too pushy. i’d like to see its character open up a bit and make it more inviting. and it stinks. but i guess thats what happens when you sell fish

unwelcoming to blow-ins? it is one of the main locations for recent-immigrant owned businesses and is one place where people who aren’t white don’t feel conspicuous.

Isn’t the plan to knock down most of the street and have it even _more_ like the Ilac Centre end?

I’m not sure how one considers the street “oppressive”. Dilapidated, sure, but it’s lively, diverse, and not unfriendly. Do we really need another Grafton St? Or another twee mall?

P.

I meant blow-ins like myself, from the south. i think its great to have multicultural centres like the parnell and moore street area have become. i just meant i personally dont feel very comfortable there, except perhaps during peak trading hours which bring a nice bustle about the place. and its only an opinion. i’m a bit difficult to please when i can see what could easily be done to improve things.

by oppressive i mean the big triangles casting looming shadows and making otherwise useful trading space dark and dingy.

the character of the street needs to be restored using well thought out and non-intrusive interventions and modifications to facades. as a market street it works wonderfully but could have more universal appeal

Moore St is barely even a street thanks to the Ilac whick forms little more than a concrete wall to enclose it into a street formation. And the Parnell end just literally falls away to nothing.

I don’t think that anyone wants glossy tiled floors and clinical stalls etc, but anything that makes the place look like a street (like thats to much to ask) has to be welcomed.

i didn’t mean to imply support for the ilac center.

Heaven forbid that you be accociated with such an implication!

i’m glad ppl are expressing strong opinions about this topic. theres a tendency, especially amongst ensconced dubliners, that things should be left as is, auld dublin and all that. where would smithfield be now with that attitude prevailing? these streets, parnell, moore, not as much capel, kings inn and definitely upper o’connell, need to be activated asap to bring in revenue, foot traffic, business, etcetera.

fair point about another grafton street, but its possible to improve this area without mimicking past models. grafton street works because its full of money, every shop front is open and accessible, and ppl use it day and night with confidence. not many ppl comfortably walk past (s)hooters, down moore street, and along o’connell street at night without being on there gaurd, and i think in a modern city that sort of fear and anxiety should be avoided. and could be avoided, with a little effort

I think there’s a difference between arguing you should retain the spirit of place and arguing that you should avoid _any_ changes. Of course Moore St could do with a facelift, but I think most people fear that any chances will be like the construction of the Ilac Centre section – for the worse. Isn’t there already a plan to knocking down most of the street opposite the Ilac centre section to construct a mall? It’s very hard to argue that the spirit of the street can be maintained if it’s hemmed in by two large buildings.

As for Smithfield, I imagine the jury is still out on the success of that. I live only 10 minutes away max, but the only time in the past few years that I had reason to go there was for the French food fair. Even after 10 years of the so-called plan, there really isn’t much up there at all; all shine, no substance.

P.

I would happily retain the entire right hand side of the street – just strengthen and refurbish the derelict areas of buildings. I know a lot of the buildings aren’t architectural wonders, but they are a monument to their time, and they are buzzing with activity.

However I would pull down the ilac centre facade, which I know they are doing to some degree anyway, and design some shops, apts or whatever to restore this side of the street.

I believe that the inset on Parnell St is also designated for apts, and the Jury’s hotel is well underway. So instead of Moore St being a sad and lonely relic of what used to be there, it could be an extremely quirky and lively unplanned section of a street complemented by some very user friendly apartments and shops, coherently linking Parnell St to Henry St.

There is a lot of development going on no doubt, but how planned is it all? Will we end up with a mishmash of styles and buildings leaving the street without any coherent style or design.

As for the market, proper level paving is required and better lighting and street cleaning. Were DCC to organise and involve the traders in any improvment that would keep the undeniable charm that Moore Street has.

I love Moore Street – it is one of the few none-tourist areas left. I buy my lunch fruit there every day. And what lovely tiles outside Buckleys. It is also of historic importance (1916). By the way what has happen to the plaque commemorating The O’Rahilly?

As a PS to my last posting, can any kind soul tell me who designed the sculpture at the Parnell Street end of Moore Street?

I quite like the scupture – I think it looks quirky. Shame its in the suburban English pedestrian style area at the back of the Ilac Centre.

I have to ask myself why new paving is proposed – the Henry St. end of the street was only recently cobbled along with a mosaic – possibly as recently as 1996 or 1998? Surely you should get a bit more value for money and longevity from this? If not, it doesn’t bode well for the expectation of long term planning?

I think the street is great as is – I can’t see that there is any sort of lack of friendliness and I certainly never feel uncomfortable there – being a Southsider who has spent every Saturday shopping day on that street with my family since knee high.

The street is even better now that the shops on the street are occupied by various immigrant commercial enterprises rather than many being vacant for what was a long time.

Markets smell though – its ridiculous to say otherwise. The best ones are also a bit dirty rather than the santisied versions in Temple Bar but that said a bit of extra cleaning wouldn’t go amiss.

I like the sculpture too, the browned globe atop is just classic 80s.

I think it is bad too that the mosaic was removed when Henry Street got the recent million pound revamp. The mosaic was quite colourful and eyecatching. That piece of sculpture was designed by a german sculptress If I remember rightly.

I never realised they removed the mosaic! I hope it wasn’t destroyed… it was a nice little feature and I think there are increasingly fewer and fewer of these…. just swathes of granite and stainless steel lamposts.

The Parnell lamp is quirky and different and I think we should encourage that as much as possible.

After thinking of the recent civic “improvements” carried out in Dublin:

* The Spire (I was a fan of this at first, but
not the mottled, dirt-streaked, red-
nosed version ultimately foisted on us)

* The “plaza” on South King Street, complete
with urinal fountain

* The awful concrete wasteland that is now
the park on Jervis St.

… I’m hoping they leave Moore St well enough alone.

P.

I live around 100m from Moore Street and around the corner from all of the “improvements” listed. Unfortunately I have to agree with you on pretty much every point you make.
The most disturbing one however is the Wolfe Tone Park development.

To impose a European solution to a Dublin space is worrying to say the least. I can’t fault the design of the space. I do have a problem with the intention. This park (or whatever it assumes it is) belongs in Scandinavia or Germany. It isn’t a solution to any problems that the original park had (i.e.. on a nice day the packed original had a few drunks lying around on the grass which begs the question why not fix the railings and put a few more Gardaí in the area?). On the contrary in removing the railings and opening up the space they created a plaza not a park.
Granted the space is pretty at night. The sculptural nature of the seating and lighting is heightened by the fact that it is completely empty.

The fact is that imposing European ideals on an architecturally uneducated population is a complete waste of time. The space isn’t used correctly because the population simply have no frame of reference in Ireland. The erection of the Spiegel tent last summer was a glimmer of what it was intended to be. Ironically they couldn’t have music there after 11pm as it disturbed the locals – a truly wonderful development considering what a wasteland the area was up until the recent past.

The reality with Moore Street is that the Corporation simply don’t know what to do with Dublin. Allowing the Jury’s Inn to mark the Parnell Street entrance to Moore Street pretty much makes that statement. How the word architectural could be applied to the building defies belief. If Architecture is the result of any form of intention then Doyle Hotels have now decided what Moore Street will look like. I am assuming this because it is the first new structure built there and will of course pre-empt the style of architecture of all development on Moore Street in the future i.e.. Nineteen-Eighties UK Office Building. Just what Dublin needs!
Now that Bloom’s Lane has been taken over by the Italians (the only significant feature of this development is their lively presence), there is the exciting possibility that the Scandinavian styles of Wolfe Tone Park/Bloom’s Lane and the UK office building style of Parnell Street will someday meet up on Liffey Street and slug it out for whatever title.

By the way I think that the original mosaic on Moore Street was designed by Orla Kelly.

Don’t agree that the Corpo don’t know what to do with Dublin.

The plan appears to be a chain of spaces linking across to Collins Barracks and expanding the north inner city westwards: O’Connell St – Moore Street – Wolfe Tone Pk – City Market Square – Smithfield, and changing the activites from wholesale to retail and tourism. Combined with the Luas and the West Gate thing, this will finally bring IMMA and Heuston out of Siberia and into the bosom of the city centre.

The Wolfe Tone park thing appears to be mainly a matter of maintenance – shite management as usual – and I disagree that it’s specifically a European style development. The plan merely opens up the park as an open space, rather than having the oringinal imposing railings cordoning it off (something I think should be changed in a lot of places e.g. the National Library / Dail / Museum etc). I worked for a couple of years on Abbey Street and it was bizarre – if you bought or brought lunch there was no decent open space nearby to sit and eat it in, despite being right in the city centre.

Correcting the historic lack of decent public open spaces in Dublin can’t come quickly enough for me.

The DIT-made documentary about Moore St shown on RTE 1 recently certainly cast shadows on the image of Moore St as the heart of aul Dublin, or as the capital’s own melting pot of cultures.
It appeared most of the traders on the street were not in the slightest bit phased with the idea of the place being practically razed to the ground – some expressed concerns with it becoming a cappuccino Mecca with the eventual exclusion of themselves, but most welcomed the idea of redevelopment and in fact continuously complained about the CC allowing the street fall into its current state and the blatent lack of progress on the ground.

Also the few multi-cultural establishments on the street can hardly be described as forming the city’s ‘alternative quarter’ – rather these poorly maintained stores have emerged simply because the rents on the street are so low because no one else in their right mind will invest in the place. In contrast to those trading on the street, these shops are concerned that any redevelopment will immediately force them out as rents will go through the roof.

Certainly the romanticism of the traders is well gone, some of those interviewed would give up the job in the morning if they could – and all were conveyed as hard-nosed business people determined not to give anything away or even haggle etc.
Also there was no ‘we’ve been on this plot for 5 generations now’ – rather the numbers trading has decreased substantially in recent times.

So whereas those who are left must be accommodated in the new scheme, I think the idea of sustaining the ‘atmosphere’ and ‘feel’ of the place, and maintaining ‘old Dublin’ in the plan really isn’t practical, simply because it doesn’t exist anymore.
Saying that, incorporating the decent Victorians there is essential, being just about the only aspect of the street from its heyday that survives. The idea of some designated affordable units for well maintained alternative stores is also an attractive option, if possible – not least to save the place from total ‘mainstreamisation’.

although i can see where you are coming from, they spent way too much time with the one guy…

i viewed the same documenatry in a very different way…

heart of aul Dublin, or as the capital’s own melting pot of cultures.

– i would reckon the the that moore street is the most culturally and ethnically diverse 100 sq metres in ireland, i don’t know how you could say anything other….

It appeared most of the traders on the street were not in the slightest bit phased with the idea of the place being practically razed to the ground

the weren’t not phased just resigned to the fact, they probably been hearing promises for years… and felt it was inevitable

– some expressed concerns with it becoming a cappuccino Mecca with the eventual exclusion of themselves,

-yes, yes they did and that is not a good thing even for cappuchino drinkers

but most welcomed the idea of redevelopment and in fact continuously complained about the CC allowing the street fall into its current state and the blatent lack of progress on the ground.

-yes, they were infering that the council had purposely let the place go… and this had been hurting their business, they would have hoped for refurbishment over the years not knocking it all down…

Also the few multi-cultural establishments on the street can hardly be described as forming the city’s ‘alternative quarter’ – rather these poorly maintained stores have emerged simply because the rents on the street are so low because no one else in their right mind will invest in the place.

-cos they were waiting for the council to run the place down so they could buy cheap sell high….

In contrast to those trading on the street, these shops are concerned that any redevelopment will immediately force them out as rents will go through the roof.

-and the people the own the shops featured the grocer and the chinese restaurant they are (small) hard-nosed business men but i still would prefer to see a one branch chinese restaurant rather then have replaced by mcdonalds and and asian food market rather then another spar….

woudnt you?

Certainly the romanticism of the traders is well gone, some of those interviewed would give up the job in the morning if they could –

-who said that on the vid?

and all were conveyed as hard-nosed business people determined not to give anything away or even haggle etc.
–
they were sayin that the asian and african people were haggling too much… beyond there normal haggling procedures… and as you saw from the video the langauge barrier was also causing them frustrations

Also there was no ‘we’ve been on this plot for 5 generations now’ – rather the numbers trading has decreased substantially in recent times.

-because the street has been run down cos the council wouldn’t keep it up…

So whereas those who are left must be accommodated in the new scheme, I think the idea of sustaining the ‘atmosphere’ and ‘feel’ of the place, and maintaining ‘old Dublin’ in the plan really isn’t practical, simply because it doesn’t exist anymore.

-you could see there was some racial tension between the old ones and the recent or not so recent arrivals, if you looking for the 1950’s moore street no it isn’t there anymore but a new moore street has developed in the last tenish years by accident…. which is just as valid…

Saying that, incorporating the decent Victorians there is essential, being just about the only aspect of the street from its heyday that survives.

-what y reckon about the “the rising last stand house” im not sure about it myself 🙂

The idea of some designated affordable units for well maintained alternative stores is also an attractive option, if possible – not least to save the place from total ‘mainstreamisation’.

-but you’ve just give the council reason enough not to do that at all…?

btw theres an ame for this sorta thing its called gentrification

i wouldt expect ya to agree totally with my points but i think things like this building of jurys on parnell street has far more reaching implicatiosn then just bad architecture….

http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featlydersen_7.shtml
http://members.lycos.co.uk/gentrification/

The article in lipmagazine seems to prefer rundown derelict American style town centre’s to “gentrification”, or even Parisian lived in town centres – which it effecticely denounces as MiddleClass.

Each to their own. It seems to miss the point that most of these American city centres were choc a bloc prior to WWII, that suburbanisation removed the middle class from the city centres, and the balance is being redressed now; but not with much success , in fact – outside of the actual Cities mentioned in the article. Read instead this article from the Guardian yesterday, a fate to be avoided.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/0,14013,1074056,00.html

Hmm. That didn;t work.

Try

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1278929,00.html

I love these two quotes from the gentrification article. How – except in the mind of the most whimsical liberal – can it possibly be regrettable that you no longer have to live beside a criminal?

“Twenty years ago the Upper West Side was very mixed-income,” said Evan Hess of the Northern Manhattan Improvement Corporation. “On the same block you could have found a judge and the criminal who was facing him. You wouldn’t see that today.”

And then

“Gentrification has a long history. In the mid and late 1800s, powerbrokers in many European cities tried their hands at urban planning. In Paris, Baron Georges Eugene Haussmann, a court crony of Napoleon III’s, gutted the residential areas where poor people lived throughout central Paris and installed the city’s famous grand boulevards. Thousands of poor Parisians were displaced to make room for the sweeping tree-lined boulevards which show-cased the city’s famous monuments. Strict guidelines applied to new building along the boulevards, and the residences there became the most exclusive in the city.”

Yes, don’t we all wish Paris was still a stinking slum full of tenements and open drains.

of the course the other reasons napoleon straightened the streets was so in riots against him he soldiers could have a straigh line to shoot down protestors….

http://www.ohiou.edu/~Chastain/rz/parisstr.htm

ya know these things happen really!

theres nothing wrong with middle class
and theoretically im a criminal….

anyway back to the point im not against redevelopement of the street or keeping it as some sort of museum peace it is a functionaly palce now jsut needs a good clean up!

I think you forgot this bit:

“By 1848 the streets were dark, evil-smelling, polluted with noise and smoke, and appalling to the senses. Moreover, the center of Paris, inhumanely overpopulated, was a labyrinth of alley-like passages with hundreds of narrow, airless routes clogged with heavy wagon, carriage, horse and pedestrian traffic. So serious was the traffic problem that the streets were a menace for pedestrians, many were run over and frequently they died. Here rains formed deadly pools infected with the organic matter of fermented excreta. Pedestrians often fell into one of the numerous “city matter” cesspools that formed overnight.

The majority of these sunless passages still, in 1848, as in Medieval times, depended on streams in the gutters to carry rain, the dregs of stagnant water and garbage, raw sewerage and all other miasmic accumulations to the nearest, hopelessly inadequate underground sewer. More than a quarter of the city’s streets had no water conduits. Rain caused the streets’ gutters to overflow into ground level buildings, courtyards and cellars. Small wonder that Paris had the highest death rate in the country. Only one house in five had iron pipes and running water and this luxury, limited to the ground floor, seldom produced clean drinking water. Only the upper economic groups could afford to have drinking water delivered.

Along with countless rats, fleas and the diseases they carried, the cholera epidemic also came from the streets. Between 1848 and 1849 cholera killed more than 19,000 Parisians. Without doubt, in 1848, Paris was one of the filthiest, most pestilential and savagely overcrowded cities in the world, and the streets were a major part of the problem. But even though successive administrations had made efforts to build a new street here, enlarge a passageway there, and carve out a few new promenades, it was obvious that given the city’s rate of growth, the streets would only become worse.”

And ironically the Moore St area, if not the street itself as well, was once a fashionable residential area – and long before the influence of snooty Gardiner’s Mall next door.
And it’s good to see today that redevelopments of many council estates in the city are now happening on the existing sites in opposition to the large scale movements to Tallaght and Ballymun in the 60s & 70s.

I largely agree with you chewy, you’ve pretty much elaborated on the issues raised – apologies for my unfortunate knack of intertwining fact with opinion, but some women did say they would finish up if they could and that they weren’t in it for the charm of the job 🙂

I don’t know the ins and outs of the CC involvement, other than the place had been let fall to ruins long before the past 5 years or so when the plans were first proposed, but it is certainly clear that the traders have been let down time and time again – the whole project is presumably still tied to the Carlton.

Fundamentally I think a market has to be maintained here, the diversity they offer to city centres is so important, let alone to this area of Dublin. I’ve no objection in the slightest to alternative stores or markets, indeed ‘market’ nowadays increasingly refers to alternative and multi-cultural produce, but well maintained development is equally important – there’s a difference between the worst elements of so called gentrification and just decent, clean, well-managed property.

What do people think of the roof-covering idea? I’ve always liked it anyway, further distinguishing Moore St from the surrounding mainstream commercial area. And a roof can contribute greatly to the atmosphere of a place, you can capture a real buzz from a large inclosed space, esp having it still open to the elements at each end, in this case still allowing a strong connection with the city. How to balance external ‘rusticness’ with internal comfort will be the challenge.
Overall major changes are going to have to happen to the street. I think everyone’s agreed that the Ilac has to go, so that’s half the street changed completely, and there’s quite a few holes that have to be filled on the other side. Coupled with new paving/flooring and the possible addition of a roof, the place will change completely, regardless of who or what remains trading on the street or in its buildings – although the apartments and office space mooted before futher above the street would have an impact on things alright.

As to gentrification, I think it’s inevitable and not a bad thing that if a market is to thrive here, other traders flogging sun-dried tomatoes and olives will also move in, helping to sustain the place. Ireland is changing after all.

Great to see the ILAC centre being demolished on Parnell Street. Jesus, It was a horrendous building. Parnell Street is really taking shape here.
The new Jury’s Hotel is nearly finished too. I remember back in the 1980’s when this street was just one big surface level carpark. What a disgrace. It did not do the great man himself C. S. Parnell justice by being called after him.
However, pity about the east side of the street. It is in an awful condition. Quite tawdry and run down despite the hustle and bustle of people.
Dublin City Council should immediately address this as well as the historic Thomas Street which is in much the same state. Anyone ever see the condition of the buildings beside Vicar Street.
Ah, come on DCC, this is part of the tourist trail too. Wake up for god sake John Fitzgerald and address these problems immediately.

Originally posted by GregF
Great to see the ILAC centre being demolished on Parnell Street. Jesus, It was a horrendous building. Parnell Street is really taking shape here.
The new Jury’s Hotel is nearly finished too. I remember back in the 1980’s when this street was just one big surface level carpark. What a disgrace. It did not do the great man himself C. S. Parnell justice by being called after him.
However, pity about the east side of the street. It is in an awful condition. Quite tawdry and run down despite the hustle and bustle of people.
Dublin City Council should immediately address this as well as the historic Thomas Street which is in much the same state. Anyone ever see the condition of the buildings beside Vicar Street.
Ah, come on DCC, this is part of the tourist trail too. Wake up for god sake John Fitzgerald and address these problems immediately.

I agree on both Greg, over the years I studied in Bolton St and since it has been a pleasure to see surface carpark after surface carpark dissappear. Finally with Jurys not a vacant site existed between Parnell Square and Capel St:)

Then a couple of months ago one of Dublins oldest houses form the 1680’s was after 25-30 years of wilfull neglect taken down, this should never have been allowed to happen.

Thomas St is also a disgrace, with the stretch from Meath St to Cornmarket around Vicar St being the worst. The area needs an local action area plan ASAP and the full rigour of Heritage legislation enforced.

James’ St as far as Echlin St in contrast has been looked after excellently and I am looking forward to see the new Digital Hub which I have every confidence will be a revelation to the area. But to get to the Hub and Guinness which is Irelands largest paying visitor attraction one must journey down Thomas St.

Originally posted by Diaspora

Thomas St is also a disgrace, with the stretch from Meath St to Cornmarket around Vicar St being the worst. The area needs an local action area plan ASAP and the full rigour of Heritage legislation enforced.

.

Pretty disapointed to see the huge ‘ There is hope ‘ sign gone ( Rather ironicly ) now that they’ve stared building on the college side of the street again.
I actually moved into the area about a year ago and eventually had to leave because of that very stretch by the Spar. It’s an area choc-a-bloc with interesting sites and has huge potential, but it’s unwelcoming, unsafe and well, Ugly. I believe the Mother Redcap site is to be torn down ?? ( It has also apparently got a listed structure that ISN’T the pub itself?? , Would this be a section of City Wall ? )

Dave

Originally posted by Punchbowl

I believe the Mother Redcap site is to be torn down ?? ( It has also apparently got a listed structure that ISN’T the pub itself?? , Would this be a section of City Wall ?

You’re spot on it is one of the remaining sections of the Medieval City Wall, the buildings in the Mother Redcaps scheme aren’t listed
they are ok Victorian industrial buildings but not in the ‘must retain’ category on the basis of architectural merit or other cultural importance, they were a brush factory for most of their existance.

There will be a development at Mother Redcaps the only question is what scale is appropriate, I have seen all the plans and I think the urban design quality is quite good, but there are a few glitches with it as well. Such as designing the carpark entrance on to a pedestriansised area wasn’t very clever. :rolleyes:

ill acknowledge the fact that areas change in occupancy over time and back again but isn’t it, in all cases, the owners and local authorities that dictate the movements, don’t want to go too off topic but for beautiful redevelopment for the olympic see this

http://www.panoramatos.com/home.php?page=story

—

well if the roof helps to define it as a market area and help it be not just a continuance of henry street then thats no bad thing…

i presume the area knocked down was just a storage/delivery area for the ilac/markets?

whats going in its place?

i haven’t seen the plans for the ilac in long time any recent links?

@sw101 wrote:

by oppressive i mean the big triangles casting looming shadows and making otherwise useful trading space dark and dingy.

It is great to see that horrible single storey shopping mall removed, does anyone have any images of what the renovation will look like, the marketing boards don’t give any real indication of the design due to the large scale of the site and the small nature of the v-board. 😮

Re: The digital hub, the project has been taken over by the OPW, which is quite a relief to a fan of the project such as myself, a certain individual deserves a lot of praise for this call.

@Rte Interactive wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0823/preservation.html

Minister in favour of preserving house

23 August 2005 16:42
The Minister for the Environment has said he is in favour of preserving a house in central Dublin where the leaders of the 1916 Rising surrendered.

16 Moore Street, near the GPO, has become the subject of a renewed campaign after it was revealed that the roof had partially collapsed.

However Dublin City Council said it was not able to do anything as the building was the subject of legal action.

But Minister Roche said he believed a preservation order could be placed on the house by the authority, something which is not in place.

Apparently its a Mid Georgian building with a fine staircase behind a late 19th Century commercial facade which is of minimum architectural quality. Its preservation will be seriously problematic for the re-development of the Carlton Site; I’d imagine that DCC are spitting teeth at this one given their plans for the area, I’m not convinced either way on it.

So the minister wants a Preservation Order placed on the house by DCC. It’s not DCC’s job, it’s the minister’s, following an Oireachtas debate. Which begs the question, will they come back early from their summer break to debate this? And the further questions, has he read the relevant legislation and does he know the duties of his office?

The following is cut-and-pasted from my post to a previous thread on Protected Structures:

FROM NAT MONS ACT 1930 (courtesy of our good friends at the Statute Book site)-

8.—(1) Where it appears to the Minister, on a report made by the Advisory Council or otherwise, that a monument which in his opinion is a national monument is in danger of being or is actually being destroyed, injured, or removed, or is falling into decay through neglect, the Minister may by order (in this Act referred to as a preservation order) entrust the preservation of such monument to the Commissioners.

(2) The Minister may at any time, by order made after consultation with the Advisory Council, revoke a preservation order.

(3) Every preservation order and every order revoking a preservation order shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may he after it is made, and if a resolution is passed by either House of the Oireachtas within the next twenty-one days on which such House has sat annulling such order, such order shall be annulled accordingly but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done thereunder.

Amazingly, up until quite recently Moore street was being marketed as a tourist attraction. Things have however changed irrevocably since then. The Ilac centre doesn’t help obviously, but despite it’s construction, Moore st continued to trade successfully.

I actually believe a walkway from O’Connell street ( And and Improved link between it and the Dunnes Stores entrance on Henry St ) would open it up more, and if the traders hang on in there they could see an upturn in trade. Moore steet kinda gets lost in the crowds of Henry Street at the moment.

I believe products carried by the stall holders these days reflect the etnic nature of the area which is pretty cool, but the problem here is that we traditionally don’t mix well in these areas so getting the Dubliners back onto the street has to be a priority..

Does anyone know/have images of what was originally on the site of the Ilac? I belive there was network of small streets but I’ve little info on them..

You can have no idea how run down that warren of lanes off Moore St was for many years pre ILAC.

Full of derelict premises, with second hand traders (of low, low quality old clothes) in some of them, there are several rather touristy photos of them in some of the books about Dublin in the 1950’s and 1960’s – usually with old dears in shawls to give some perspective. This was how it usually was, not the folk park image of Ireland, but the real and poor run down innner city.
The shoe vendors were there too, close to Moore St.

Yes, Moore Street was, and perhaps still is, one of the recommended sights of Dublin for tourists, one which must have been strange for most continental visitors who have similar and better markets. Perhaps much was aimed at the Americans, who doubtless found it quaint after the A&P.

I agree on this when you go to markets on the continent they are very professional in comparison to Irish markets (excluding the Peoples Park in Dun Laoghaire) with best quality fresh produce sold which is often far superior to that found in shops and hypermarkets. What was in this area of Dublin pre Ilac was probably very poor and was always going to be cleared given the time that was in it.

The Ilac centre for me was a complete failure the linkages provided were very poor when one considers that a Liffey St to King Inns St link would have been possible and the existance of such low quality retail space as the shoe stalls really does to my mind sum up the lack of forsight in its design.

Something tells me the same mistake won’t be made twice

I think the area was generally referred to as Cole`s Lane and was as some have described a rather Dickensian aspect to Dublin.
The dealers there were exactly that ….Dealers and some would have also traded in the Daisy Market which was adjacent to the present Fruit,Veg and Fish market.
The daisy had a somewhat more eclectic mix of stock and was a needle to anchor market in comparison to Cole`s lanes Haute Coteure…..
However all of these markets were REAL places catering for a REAL need as our distribution of available wealth was somewhat narrower than at present.
Hand-me-Downs and buying second hand were simply ordinary parts of everyday life and conducted in a suitably businesslike manner….. :rolleyes:

Dublin Council votes to protect Rising HQ in Moore Street

07:47 Tuesday December 6th 2005

Dublin City Council has voted unanimously to protect the house used as the final headquarters of the leaders of the 1916 Rising.
Developers had wanted to demolish 16 Moore Street as part of a plan to transform the area into a huge shopping complex.

The move sparked a campaign to save the building, which was built in 1763 and had fallen into serious disrepair.

Last night, Dublin councillors voted to add the building and three adjoining houses to the list of protected structures as recommended in a architects’ report.

The leaders of the 1916 Rising eventually surrendered from 16 Moore Street after being forced to flee the nearby GPO, which was on fire following several days of heavy bombardment.

I am pleased to hear that this particular building is being saved. I don’t understand why they want to build another shopping complex here as there are already two big ones (Jervis/ILAC) close by. I presume this complex you mention is separate to the ILAC.

They could always incorporate the perserved (or soon to be preserved) buildings into the design, like up at the National Gallery.

Has anyone been down Moore Street recently?

It has a much changed feel once you get beyond the entrance to the ILAC with quite tall new buildings on all three sides relative to what was there only a short while ago. I really don’t like Jury’s as a building but the new section of the Ilac is inoffensive as is the IVY something scheme on the site of the former Waldons Garage from this vista.

Anyone else noticed the difference?

Anyone see the ever derepit run down state of Thomas Street and James Street, Dublin. I’ve mentioned this here time and time again over the years and there is still no improvement with these potentially fine streets.. What a great historical area, with such fine landmarks as St Augustine and St John’s Church, St Catherine’s Church (where they hung Robert Emmet), the great Guinness brewery, the NCAD, St James Hospital etc….This vein also attarcts thousands of visiters each year as the tourists make their trek to Guinness’s.
Over the years shops that were icons to the area have closed, ie Fitzgeralds jeans shop (where Christy Moore bought an odd pair of dungarees ) and the latest victim to suffer Frawleys. Gilnas, the opticians, are the only shop on this block now. What is going on here? There is nothing but closed shops. Is there a protection racket in the area, I wonder? The shops that remain are kinda huckstery and tawdry. Come on Dublin City Council, make an effort and give this area of the city the attention it deserves. There have been great improvements with North King Street with the HARP project over the years, why not do the same here. It is disgracful really to see the condition of this prime inner capital city area in such a run down state especially in Celtic Tiger Ireland. You can se the look of bewilderment too on the tourist faces.