Cork Harbour

anyone hae any idea when these plans should go on show?hope the landmark building is something special and not a big let down!

some nice high rise would be really go down well

hopefully they’ll also consider building a tram while the place is a construction site. it’ll save time and money in the long run

This would make a good site for some decentralisation given the public transport and air connections close by. the real question is whether this is an aspirational idea or a concrete plan to be backed up by real jobs.

How polluted is the site? I assume with metals etc? and how long will it take to clean up and who will foot the bill.

I’m glad that that plant’s closed though it was an environmental disaster. The pharmacutical plants etc are soooo much cleaner.

Likewise, I’m glad that IFI’s gone…

Hopefully this will see the end of those old-style heavy and polluting industries in the Cork harbour area.

@MrX wrote:

Likewise, I’m glad that IFI’s gone…

What pollution did IFI produce?

Its good news about Haulbowline. Access to this development will be via the present bridge which runs through Rocky Island- the site currently in line for the first crematorium outside Dublin. I wonder whether the crematorium might now be put on hold by the developers in favour of a more lucrative development in line with the plans for the neighbouring island. Although, you know what they say about crematoria (sp?)- people are dying to get in there!

Elsewhere in the harbour, the battle for Spike Island seems to be escalating. Rumblings from the local opposition parties suggest that, given power in the next election, they would not allow the development of a ‘super-prison’ on the historic site, with local politicians, business leaders and tourism interests campaigning for an Alcatraz type attraction to be developed there. Certainly, that type of tourism use might be more useful than a prison beside the proposed Haulbowline Hotel, Apartments and Museum.

Go to http://www.spikeisland.info to find out more about the campaign to ‘save’ Spike and to sign the petition.

It looks like the Pentagon. I never realised that the building was such an unusual shape. Is there any way the island could be marketed as a tourist spot in the same way Alcatraz is.

@Maskhadov wrote:

Great news that they are starting to clean up Cork Harbour.

the plans all sound brilliant, I will believe it when its done, but does that mean they will have hotels and touristy things next to Dick Roches incinerator?

There is a piece about the developments there in Saturdays Echo. It shows a few photos of Haulbowline and Rocky Islands. How big is Rocky Island? It looked tiny in the pictures and it looks as if that crematorium will have to be squeezed onto it. The road to Haulbowline takes up most of the island. Has anyone got some more pictures?

Last week the last major structure, the furnace hall, of the Irish steel building was knocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmlpNPIf8A

Just lower level sctuctures to be demolished now, I estimate the site will be cleared, and ready for new use by Christmas, assuming there are no complicated underground services to contend with.

Dammit I always miss the good stuff 🙁 Been waiting 23 years for that shit heap to be demolised, and Im in Galway when they knock it 🙁

@THE_Chris wrote:

Dammit I always miss the good stuff 🙁 Been waiting 23 years for that shit heap to be demolised, and Im in Galway when they knock it 🙁

Chris!

As a small consolation, I came across this and thought you might be interested. The status quo ante: WIlliam Bartlett’s lithograph of Cove of Cork from c. 1840 showing Haulbowlin with Mrs. Deane’s provisioning buildings, Spike, I think, and charming party somewhere above Westbeach:

ooo nice 😀

haha whoever gave planning for that steel works. rofl.

This is great for the harbour, but wont it cause huge traffic problems on the near Ringaskiddy with a huge development on the island? A tram would be great but if it were to go the the city centre it would be of gigantic cost. Twould be great for Ringaskiddy, carragaline, Monkstown, Mahon, Blackrock, all those places but it would be really expensive.

I think someone asked who owned the steel plant and who was responsible for the cleanup. As far as I know a British-Indian steel tycoon called Lakshmi Mittal (now third richest man in the world)bought the plaec in 1999 or so for a pound. The low cost was to encourage someone to take over the plant and turn it from a loss making company to a profitable one and save the jobs. However Mittal bled the place dry, laid off the the workers (without redundancy payment I think) and just left the place to rot. There was toxic dust lying around the place that had to be cleared up so the government asked Mittal to clear it up. Being one of the richest men in the world, he failed to cough up the money to clear up the site which he owned. Despite court cases and such it seems that the government will have to pay the 30 million euro (a conservative estimate) to clean up the site. Despite this Mittal paid over 10O million dollars for a house in Kensington (most expensive house boughtin history), and paid 30 million pounds sterling for his daughters wedding(Most expensive wedding in history). A right tyrant it seems.

@PTB wrote:

This is great for the harbour, but wont it cause huge traffic problems on the near Ringaskiddy with a huge development on the island? A tram would be great but if it were to go the the city centre it would be of gigantic cost. Twould be great for Ringaskiddy, carragaline, Monkstown, Mahon, Blackrock, all those places but it would be really expensive.

I think someone asked who owned the steel plant and who was responsible for the cleanup. As far as I know a British-Indian steel tycoon called Lakshmi Mittal (now third richest man in the world)bought the plaec in 1999 or so for a pound. The low cost was to encourage someone to take over the plant and turn it from a loss making company to a profitable one and save the jobs. However Mittal bled the place dry, laid off the the workers (without redundancy payment I think) and just left the place to rot. There was toxic dust lying around the place that had to be cleared up so the government asked Mittal to clear it up. Being one of the richest men in the world, he failed to cough up the money to clear up the site which he owned. Despite court cases and such it seems that the government will have to pay the 30 million euro (a conservative estimate) to clean up the site. Despite this Mittal paid over 10O million dollars for a house in Kensington (most expensive house boughtin history), and paid 30 million pounds sterling for his daughters wedding(Most expensive wedding in history). A right tyrant it seems.

😉 Sounds like a candidate for an Irish Passport for sale to me?:rolleyes:

The story in Cobh is that Irish steel was sold for

I’d be a bit worried about those dust clouds!! Wouldn’t they potentially contain a lot of heavy metals and other weird chemicals in the form of soot that had built up in the furnace?

It was an absolutely hideous building though and a terrible source of pollution. I would say the exact same for IFI an utter disgrace of an operation. I remember being in Fota wildlife park and being overcome by an accidental release of amonia while they were filling some tank.

The biotech and pharma industry around the harbour is pretty much squeeky clean in comparison.

What I find even worse about both IFI and Irish Steel is that they were also both semi-state companies for most of their lives and certainly at the time that they were built.

I’m very glad to see the back of Irish steel anyway 🙂

Another examle of Cobh Town Council’s aesthetic sense: note the flying-saucer like water tower pitched prominently on the hill-crest of Cobh, obviously enhancing the twon’s tourist potential:

@Praxiteles wrote:

Another examle of Cobh Town Council’s aesthetic sense: note the flying-saucer like water tower pitched prominently on the hill-crest of Cobh, obviously enhancing the twon’s tourist potential:

So much for ridge protection zones.:(

Is that what they call it in guff terminology? Really, the whole shibang in Cobh Town Council should be closed down. It serves absolutely NO USEFUL purpose whatever and a bigger crowd of KNOWNOTHINGS you would be hard pressed to find!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Is that what they call it in guff terminology? Really, the whole shibang in Cobh Town Council should be closed down. It serves absolutely NO USEFUL purpose whatever and a bigger crowd of KNOWNOTHINGS you would be hard pressed to find!

Powerful stuff, Mr. Prax! Dere a right crowd of Vainquers in de Council! Imagine tinking that it was dere job to provide water for de people. What will dey tink of next! Shoor de place is destroyed entirely. But at least we have kept our faith! Shoor you’ll have a point. Wattle ye have. A pint of spleen? Givus two pints of spleen.

No Chuck, we shall have the Chasse Spleen, please!!!

@Chuck E R Law wrote:

Powerful stuff, Mr. Prax! Dere a right crowd of Vainquers in de Council! Imagine tinking that it was dere job to provide water for de people. What will dey tink of next! Shoor de place is destroyed entirely. But at least we have kept our faith! Shoor you’ll have a point. Wattle ye have. A pint of spleen? Givus two pints of spleen.

Actually, that is not a bad attempt at an interlinguistic pun at all. But the council in Cobh are the Vaincus -however you might wish to read that!!

@THE_Chris wrote:

Dammit I always miss the good stuff 🙁 Been waiting 23 years for that shit heap to be demolised, and Im in Galway when they knock it 🙁

Chris!

Here is something for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmlpNPIf8A

@Chuck E R Law wrote:

Powerful stuff, Mr. Prax! Dere a right crowd of Vainquers in de Council! Imagine tinking that it was dere job to provide water for de people. What will dey tink of next! Shoor de place is destroyed entirely. But at least we have kept our faith! Shoor you’ll have a point. Wattle ye have. A pint of spleen? Givus two pints of spleen.

Imagine anybody naive enough at this stage to buy the sham populist democracy bit that Cobh Urban Council would have the altruism to think PUBLIC or the ability to act in the interest of the PEOPLE when the same body gave us a world class example of crypto-marxist distain for the will of Das Volk by not even bothering to look at let alone read 95 of 214 objections to the proposed wrecking of the interior of Cobh Cathedral. Are we dealing with someone from the party here? Certainly, the attitudes are veresimilitudenous!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Chris!

Here is something for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmlpNPIf8A

I’m very proud of that clip. Seems the Secondary school in cobh as it as one of their most popular youtube movies at the moment.

@kite wrote:

So much for ridge protection zones.:(

Where else would one put a water tower? Its next to the old one. Its there since the mid 80s. This is the first complaint I have heard. The angle of that photo would be unusual for the average tourist as the naval base does not form part of the usual tourist route. Who took the photo? Would sir prefer if the population took their water in buckets from the river instead?

@goldiefish wrote:

Where else would one put a water tower? Its next to the old one. Its there since the mid 80s. This is the first complaint I have heard. The angle of that photo would be unusual for the average tourist as the naval base does not form part of the usual tourist route. Who took the photo? Would sir prefer if the population took their water in buckets from the river instead?

There is no shortage of high ground in Cobh. The tower could quite easily have been located on a less prominent part of the ridge and kept out of sight. That the old water tower was on the same site only underlines the degree of laziness and mental torpitude current in Cobh Town Council. Nobody is asking anyone to draw water in buckets. All we are saying is that ungly facilities such as the Cobh flying-saucer water tower should be kept out of site and certainly nowhere near a buuilding of the significance of St. Colman’s Cathedral. If Haulbowline is to be developed as a tourist facility, what are the tourists going to say about ET’s parking lot across the harbour?

People thought the eifil(sp) tower was an eyesore too

And some still do. The same gantry does not have unreserved aesthetical encomia heaped on it. Believe you me: the Cobh Water Tower is not anywhere even in that league. It is simply ugly, produced by laziness, indifference, and ignorance, and should simply be removed.

There is a similar one in Castletroy, Limerick, Its floodlit and is quite pleasing on the eye.

One of the reasons a water tower remains on the site in Cobh is because it is an aid to navigation. It appears on the Nautical charts of the harbour and is often used by pilots(ships ones) as a landmark to steer to when entering the outer harbour. Combining landmarks such as this can also assist in the important task of compass swinging, but hey it doesnt look nice so lets tear it down.

And tell me, how did they manage in the harbour for landmarks before ET (aka the lazy Cobh UDC) landed the saucer?

You are not telling me that Cobh UDC was even lazier than I thought and merely copied a schematic plan for general use up and down the country without any reference to environment?

And, is it to the watertower that you stand to attention as you enter and leave the harbour?

Re: Castletroy: I am afraid I cannot account for the taste of the Co. Limerick!

You know your sarcasm does nothing to further the discussion.

Have you even watched ET? His ship looked nothing like the water tower.

Sorry, I did not intend any sarcasm – but it is a verifable fact that Cobh UDC is in a state of hallucinogenic accitie.

But, to return to the point, do you stand to attention to the watertower or not as you enter and leave the harbour?

no.why would I?

Goldiefish!

Thank you. Thta is all I wanted to know. Clearly, the watertower is of no significance as far Cork harbour is concerned.

As a matter of interest, if I may ask, does anyone stand to attention anymore entering and leaving the harbour and if so, why? Perhaps our non Cobh audience would like to hear of a small bit of local custom.

Goldiefish!

Thank you. That is all I wanted to know. Clearly, the watertower is of no significance as far Cork harbour is concerned.

As a matter of interest, if I may ask, does anyone stand to attention anymore entering and leaving the harbour and if so, why? Perhaps our non Cobh audience would like to hear of a small bit of local custom.

The Irish Navy always do, but that to salute the Flag on their water tower (painted yellow and black). Visiting warships also do too. Its established naval tradition, the purpose being to demonstrate that no crew were operating the ships guns.

As for its significance, did you miss the bit where I explained about it being a vital aid to navigation?

Actually, I did not miss the reference to the watertower’s being “vital” to navigation. I decided to let it sit when it struck me that it cannot be too visible, and hence too “vital”, when the thick fog comes down over the harbour and the mournful lowing of the boon starts up – and this happens more than once during the winter in Cobh. And then, you have the days of slashing rain and you are unlikely to see much of the watertower on those days either as it is usually difficult enough to make out your own hand. So, in fine summer weather, or clear winter weather, the watertower will be visible and could act as a welcome navigation aid. But, the last time I was out in the harbour, i seem to remember that the channells were fairly well marked off by a series of buoys which must surely relativise the watertower’s strategic navagational significance. On the other hand, if safe steerage in and out of the Virgilian statio bene fida et carinis is dependent on an ugly lump of concrete, should anyone run the gauntlet of Cork harbour which cannot be very bene fida or carinis?

Land lubbers…they know nothing.
I’ll not bother explaining it again as your entrenched opinions come with selective reading skills.

Speaking of navigational aids in the harbour, I think people would find this one of interest. It is the Spit Bank lighthouse. Apparently, during the Queen’s visit to Cobh (called Queenstown in her honor), navigation was made extremely difficult given the fog. Following a successful landing, she granted the captain his wish for a navigational aid on the spit bank! Furthermore, it was designed by a blind man and built in 1853.
It is maintained by the Port of Cork and not by Irish Lights.

A case of the blind leading the blind? Nice photograph of the Cathedral while the restoration work was going on in the spire.

@goldiefish wrote:

Land lubbers…they know nothing.
I’ll not bother explaining it again as your entrenched opinions come with selective reading skills.

Land lubbers…. fully agree with you.
For anyone interested… any landmark is of use to navigation and even with marked buoys on a channel, GPS, Chartplotters, it is still your best visual check using transits on where you are within a channel. Wind, tide all cause drift of any vessels, aiming for something or using a compass heading is not sufficent. you have to cross check for wind/tide drift and any feature, helps this.

Its not just weekend yotties, boaties that do this but Harbour Pilots everyday bringnig vessels in/out.

As I say GPS/chartplotters make it so much easier… but they can fail and nothing like a visual check

Many features are used, the Cathedral of course, the Aghada ESb towers, Water towers in Cobh
and above Crosshaven….

Now if you want to see a real eyesore….just look from Cobh and you see the skyline above pfizers totally buggered with the development going on there… did anyone ever look at the levels at all when giving planning……. well at least Cobh Town Council cannot be blamed for that one..

While on things maritime, has any heard/seen rumoured application for an 80 berth marina at Rafeen Creek near Monkstown. Or indeed heard anything on latest with Ascons Marina plan for Cobh… believe it still stuck in High Court but not sure if true

@samuel j wrote:

While on things maritime, has any heard/seen rumoured application for an 80 berth marina at Rafeen Creek near Monkstown.

I understood that area was part of PoC’s plan for expansion of the harbour’s container facilities.

@jungle wrote:

I understood that area was part of PoC’s plan for expansion of the harbour’s container facilities.

Upriver or to the right of the POC plans, as far as I understand. I would think where many boats are now on swinging moorings. Just heard a rumour that an planning app has or is going in.

@samuel j wrote:

Land lubbers…. fully agree with you.
For anyone interested… any landmark is of use to navigation and even with marked buoys on a channel, GPS, Chartplotters, it is still your best visual check using transits on where you are within a channel. Wind, tide all cause drift of any vessels, aiming for something or using a compass heading is not sufficent. you have to cross check for wind/tide drift and any feature, helps this.

Its not just weekend yotties, boaties that do this but Harbour Pilots everyday bringnig vessels in/out.

As I say GPS/chartplotters make it so much easier… but they can fail and nothing like a visual check

Many features are used, the Cathedral of course, the Aghada ESb towers, Water towers in Cobh
and above Crosshaven….

Now if you want to see a real eyesore….just look from Cobh and you see the skyline above pfizers totally buggered with the development going on there… did anyone ever look at the levels at all when giving planning……. well at least Cobh Town Council cannot be blamed for that one..

That is exactly my point…these have to be SEEN to be of any use to navigation. You cannot SEE them in the FOG or indeed in heavy RAIN. So, when not SEEABLE/VISIBLE they canot be VITAL to navigation …and since that is a fairly substantial part of the year as far as Cobh is concerned, one could well wonder if they are really of any use at all. As af as I can make out, that should be the same, roughly speaking, for both land lubber and sea hound alike. After all, if the fog in Cobh did not oblige Queen Victoria by staying away for the few hours she ever spent there when she landed (and Cork was raging in typhus at the same time so much so that she had to open UCC from a safe distance), what hope have we to expect that itwill look more kindlier on us. As far as I can see, the light house is a much more practical item for navigation in the fog or in the dark of winter. Vivat regina!

I am surprised that the mess you describe above pfizers is not the fault of Cobh Urban District Council….their accitie must now be a principal export from the town !

I take your point that if fog or heavy rain then one cannot see landmarks for using transits etc. but in dense fog or zero vis. commercial traffic movements will be halted until such time as the Pilot and Port Operations
are both happy with vis. Does mean vessels remaining at anchor off Spike or outside Roches Point.
Constant checks are made of vis of all areas, approaches, lower harbour, lough mahon …
I guarantee you any professional seafarer will much rather and trust his own eyes for visual checks. Most if not all now have Radar/GPS, pleasure craft too, but in the times of low vis as you describe, you would be surprised how very often towers etc. can still be made out….and when one does, joy that one can confirm/backup electronic nav aids.

But in zero vis. you are right but fortunately harbour pilots etc. agree with you, so ships stay put….

Cobh ….you’re an awful man…. for the yast 5 years we have started exportin a lot of young professionals each morning to Cork City…the odd architect even….. the Importation back each evening does have its drawbacks though…. all these new housing estates…. admittedly though in the county planning juristication.

@goldiefish wrote:

The Irish Navy always do, but that to salute the Flag on their water tower (painted yellow and black). Visiting warships also do too. Its established naval tradition, the purpose being to demonstrate that no crew were operating the ships guns.

As for its significance, did you miss the bit where I explained about it being a vital aid to navigation?

I remember watching the USS The Sullivans coming into Cobh during the summer.
In addition to 3 or 4 RIBS -all flying the Stars and Stripes- buzzing around the warship, every gun on deck was manned by crew in full battle dress.
I wondered what they do when visiting a country that is not classified as ‘friendly’

@lawyer wrote:

I remember watching the USS The Sullivans coming into Cobh during the summer.
In addition to 3 or 4 RIBS -all flying the Stars and Stripes- buzzing around the warship, every gun on deck was manned by crew in full battle dress.
I wondered what they do when visiting a country that is not classified as ‘friendly’

Friendly….. know of a British Captain that was so worried that he would come under fire going up river he requested could he go up river ‘astern’…(backwards) so he could get away quick if the natives got hostile… he was serious…..

@samuel j wrote:

I take your point that if fog or heavy rain then one cannot see landmarks for using transits etc. but in dense fog or zero vis. commercial traffic movements will be halted until such time as the Pilot and Port Operations
are both happy with vis. Does mean vessels remaining at anchor off Spike or outside Roches Point.
Constant checks are made of vis of all areas, approaches, lower harbour, lough mahon …
I guarantee you any professional seafarer will much rather and trust his own eyes for visual checks. Most if not all now have Radar/GPS, pleasure craft too, but in the times of low vis as you describe, you would be surprised how very often towers etc. can still be made out….and when one does, joy that one can confirm/backup electronic nav aids.

But in zero vis. you are right but fortunately harbour pilots etc. agree with you, so ships stay put….

Cobh ….you’re an awful man…. for the yast 5 years we have started exportin a lot of young professionals each morning to Cork City…the odd architect even….. the Importation back each evening does have its drawbacks though…. all these new housing estates…. admittedly though in the county planning juristication.

Sam!

Thanks a million for seeing clearly the point I have being trying to make with Goldiefish for two days: the watertower is useless to you in 0 visibility conditions for any kind of navigation because you simply cannot see it. That was all I was trying to say and I do not think it represents either an entrenched position or incorrigibility on my part. I was merely stating a fact that you were kind enough to vouchsafe for the general readership.

On the basis of that fact, I think we can then say that the watertower is only RELATIVELY important for navigation in the harbour of Cork; and, hence, is not VITAL to navigating even a rowing boat. Given this, and the other fact that any prominent landmark will do for navigation in fair weather, then there is no excuse left for retaining that ugly lump of a watertower and no reason not to tear it down and put somewhere else out of sight. Did you see Corcaighboy’s loverly picture with the scaffolded spire? Why not use that, or even the palace? No that we see that there is no REASON for that ugly blot on the landscape, we will have to do something to wake the Cobh Urban District Council out of their slumberous laziness and get them to send someone up there to demolish it. This being an election year……..

As for Goldiefish and seeing the watertower in the dark, is there any chance that he might not have been thinking of navagating upriver underwater in a U-BOOT with one of those lazer pariscopes?

@samuel j wrote:

Friendly….. know of a British Captain that was so worried that he would come under fire going up river he requested could he go up river ‘astern’…(backwards) so he could get away quick if the natives got hostile… he was serious…..

The only English captain worth his navigation salt on the Cove of Cork was Sir Francis Drake who managed to get a FLEET up river, without the relative aid of the Cobh watertower, and HIDE it at low tide in the Glanmire backwash.

It is just as well that the navigation of the Cove of Cork is in the trustworthy hands of the Port of Cork. Imagine trying to get anywhere on the river had the navigation been entrusted to Cobh Urban District Council. Given their level of laziness and ineptitude, we could expect to see a cock up like the Battle of Jutland on a daily basis and we would have to listen to sleepy officials telling us that they were familiar with the navigation charts and that they had read them all in the space of a few minutes each despite which, however, they had mastered the channells and knew exactly what should should be done but could explain the daily Jutland!!

For good and glory and I hope you bought the book and the calendar – if not I’ll have some one take them out to you.

@Praxiteles wrote:

The only English captain worth his navigation salt on the Cove of Cork was Sir Francis Drake who managed to get a FLEET up river, without the relative aid of the Cobh watertower, and HIDE it at low tide in the Glanmire backwash.

It is just as well that the navigation of the Cove of Cork is in the trustworthy hands of the Port of Cork. Imagine trying to get anywhere on the river had the navigation been entrusted to Cobh Urban District Council. Given their level of laziness and ineptitude, we could expect to see a cock up like the Battle of Jutland on a daily basis and we would have to listen to sleepy officials telling us that they were familiar with the navigation charts and that they had read them all in the space of a few minutes each despite which, however, they had mastered the channells and knew exactly what should should be done but could explain the daily Jutland!!

You may be able to move altars but you cannot move rivers

The ‘Glanmire backwash’ is on the north side of Cork Harbour. Drakes Pool is on the south side

Your continuing comments against the Cobh UDC resemble Michael O’Leary’s rants against the Government, Dublin Airport Authority, Aer Lingus and anyone else who does not see things his way.

@Praxiteles wrote:

It is just as well that the navigation of the Cove of Cork is in the trustworthy hands of the Port of Cork. Imagine trying to get anywhere on the river had the navigation been entrusted to Cobh Urban District Council. !!

Oh dear God…. That a scenario that would take me off the sea forever……

They would probably make the Spit Lighthouse into a Recycling Depot with a payment clerk in situ for taking the anchoring fines – Eur 45 for longer than 1 hour.

Jokes aside, You do seem to have it in for Cobh Town Council…. Is this just post the Cathedral debacle or are there other events that have made you form such a strong view …

@lawyer wrote:

You may be able to move altars but you cannot move rivers

The ‘Glanmire backwash’ is on the north side of Cork Harbour. Drakes Pool is on the south side

Your continuing comments against the Cobh UDC resemble Michael O’Leary’s rants against the Government, Dublin Airport Authority, Aer Lingus and anyone else who does not see things his way.

Ah so! You are commenting for Cobh Urban District Council? ‘Tis nice to know they have one friend in the whole wide world.

Things are so bad in Cobh Urban District Council that they cannot put three boxes containing 214 objections, made by c.750 persons, to a proposed development in the way of the temporary planning officer brought in to read them.
Needless to say, the money charged to the public for lodging such objections was never heard of again. If you want to defend that sort of ineptitude and plain bolchevism, just be my guest. Is it too much for the ordinary public -the man in the street- to expect public servants, whom he is paying, to do their duty?

@samuel j wrote:

Oh dear God…. That a scenario that would take me off the sea forever……

They would probably make the Spit Lighthouse into a Recycling Depot with a payment clerk in situ for taking the anchoring fines – Eur 45 for longer than 1 hour.

Jokes aside, You do seem to have it in for Cobh Town Council…. Is this just post the Cathedral debacle or are there other events that have made you form such a strong view …

This is not a strong view at all. Like non-navigating in the dark, it is a statemnt of fact that the Cobh Urban District Council could not run an urban kennels let alone Urban District. They must be one of the greatest menaces to democracy in western hemisphere and they are answereable to no one. While they operate behind a sham veneer of democracy, the people you elect in Cobh to represent you in local government, are reduced to silence by the undemocratically appointed appraachniks who make all the decisions without the slightest interest in the will of the people. The roten boroughs of the 1830 would not hold candle light to it. Just take a look at the Council Minute Book on their website. While you have that ugly lump of a watertower up there, the counsellors are only allowed to talk about cracked pavings on the footpaths. Put the sham democracy out of its misery and officialize the Gauleiter(in).

Yeah valid point….. would have been in the 750 myself….so biased I guess.
Have you had other incidents of note with them….. any thoughts on the Garda Headquarters on the Lower Road in Cobh…. from sea it very much out of place with splendid Victorian buildings on all sides.

They say its supposed to look like a Ferry.

It just succeeds in looking stupid 😀

A Ferry, so we’re led to believe. as such it does but would have thought plenty of the real thing pass every day so why bother. I just feel that given the spendid Victorian buildings on each side of it, above it and indeed the railway station/heritage centre it is totally out of place and more like a Ferry gone agound….

And dare one ask who is responsible for this mess at local government level?

I have to say that in my opinion, the Garda building in Cobh is out of character given its location (in the old railway goods yard). Here is how the OPW descibe it:
“The site is located beside the railway overlooking Cork Harbour and the Deep Water Quay. A derelict Victorian brick building 140-metre long by 13.5 metre wide, designed as a railway carriage shed, occupied most of the site, with the floor 4 metres below the street, level with the railway line. It was decided to use the existing brick walls of the carriage shed as the outer shell of the new building at the lower level, and to enclose a covered car park. A concrete column and slab structure was built within the brick enclosure. This was clad in aluminium curtain walling. The south elevation facing the sea is mainly glass with continuous timber decks, which act as bris-soleil as well as providing access for cleaning and maintenance, thus avoiding the need for access onto the railway line. As the building is overlooked from the High Road, green roofs were constructed on both the main building and over the car park.”

I love the reference to ‘bris-soleil’!! Can’t seem to find any photos on the web.

I wonder fo the Guards realize the significance of a “bris-soleil” for their sun tans?

Have none from sea where one really can see how out of place it is but found these

@Praxiteles wrote:

Ah so! You are commenting for Cobh Urban District Council? ‘Tis nice to know they have one friend in the whole wide world.

Things are so bad in Cobh Urban District Council that they cannot put three boxes containing 214 objections, made by c.750 persons, to a proposed development in the way of the temporary planning officer brought in to read them.
Needless to say, the money charged to the public for lodging such objections was never heard of again. If you want to defend that sort of ineptitude and plain bolchevism, just be my guest. Is it too much for the ordinary public -the man in the street- to expect public servants, whom he is paying, to do their duty?

You are sounding like George W. now.
Either you agree with me or you support ‘the axis of evil’
I do not live in Cobh nor do I know any members of its Urban District Council.
I just do not think that this thread is the right place for you to be conducting your campaign -regardless of your reasons.

@samuel j wrote:

Have none from sea where one really can see how out of place it is but found these

😮 Please tell me that this is a superimposed joke image, that building is not located in Cobh, is it?
If it is the planners should have included a plank in the conditions….so they could be forced to walk it, self indulgent prestigious prats.

I’m afraid not….. but is really if viewed from the sea that one sees how out of place the Garda Regional Headquarters is. Its there many year now but every time I pass it (by sea) i cannot believe it was allowed.

@lawyer wrote:

You are sounding like George W. now.
Either you agree with me or you support ‘the axis of evil’
I do not live in Cobh nor do I know any members of its Urban District Council.
I just do not think that this thread is the right place for you to be conducting your campaign -regardless of your reasons.

My understanding of this thread is that it is a forum to discuss and comment on developments in Cork Harbour. I have highlighted two inappropriate developments: an ungainly watertower that anoth contrubutor regrads as probably in violation of ridge conservation guidelines]nous[/I] of Cobh Urban District Council arrives anywhere near the least common denominator to qualify it as an intelligent subject !! What are we to do? CLose our eyes to the facts before us?

@samuel j wrote:

I’m afraid not….. but is really if viewed from the sea that one sees how out of place the Garda Regional Headquarters is. Its there many year now but every time I pass it (by sea) i cannot believe it was allowed.

😮 Did the Garda / OPW have to get permission for that, or are they exempt from the rule of law?
If planning was required the planner should be named and shamed.

@kite wrote:

😮 Did the Garda / OPW have to get permission for that, or are they exempt from the rule of law?
If planning was required the planner should be named and shamed.

Presumably they did have to obtain planning permission. No body-even a state body- is above the law. All are equally subject to the law. Or, at least, that is how it is in a democracy.

Is it any wonder taht we have public order issues when the agents of law and order undermine their own authority by playacting as Popeye, Captain Birdseye or even Long John Silver sailing on the good ship lollypop or the yellow submarine.

Cobh has one natural advantage that, hopefully, will ebventually take care of this piece of absurd detritus: it is subject to subsidence. Hopefuly, and not before too long, we will see a providential subsidence covering over yet another eye sore.

I agree with Kite. Thos responsible for this MUST be named and shamed starting with Cobh Urban District Council.

Garda Buildings are the sole responsibility of the OPW. Cobh UDCs input into it extended no more than turning up to the official opening wearing their “robes of office”.

I think while Praxi has occasionally some worthwhile points, the real problem in Cob-h is being overlooked. That is the utter state of deriliction of the buildings around the Lusitania monument. For a location that attracts the most tourists to the town after the Cathedral (which is contrary to some rumours not being knocked or painted purple by Bishop Magee).

Lets fix whats broke, before we break whats working.

Notice Garda District HQ on shoreline.

Goldiefish!

Thanks for the compliment and I can return the same.

Re: the Guards barracks -what a heap – I just will have to go and so much for OPW.

In total agreement with clearing up the derelict buildings in the centre of the town.

I cnnot imagine the bishop of Cloyne in a pair of overalls painting aything any colour.

It is even more ridiculous than I had imagined. The Guards must think that their running a Mississippi show-boat over there!

Cobh Town Centre is in an awful state. The buildings in the square around the Lusitania monument have now acquired boards covering the ground floor window and doors on which the local Youth Centre kids have painted large butterflies and flowers as well as advertisements for themselves.
As I have mentioned previously on another thread, Cobh town centre is a virtual wilderness. There are a number of problems here, one being Cobh people’s reluctance to support any new business; the introduction of parking charges accompanied by a warden who would put the Gestapo to shame – this alone has seen most of the car owning residends abandoning the town: and the ridiculous value put on property in the town centre – ridiculous in that most of it is in desperate need or complete renovation. The local merchants have tried to reason with the Council on the parking problem, but to no avail.

Goldiefish – Great photo and whilst I realise that opinions on the building’s architectural merit vary, I for one concur that it is not appropriate. I feel that it jars completely with the red brick of the railway station.

Gianlorenzo – You hit the nail on the head. Cobh, despite having one of Ireland’s most interesting architectural and visual landscapes, has a tardy, beat-up look to the place. When one contrasts it with Kinsale and what they have done with relatively little in comparison, it is plain to see Cobh has missed the boat. Although we can blame the planners, the UDC, and other state bodies, I for one feel that the people of Cobh have to bear the blame since they have simply let their town slide into the mess it is today. Litter seems to be a perennial problem, and the place has always had a rough edge. Given that the town has so many natural physical advantages, it is doubly depressing. Youghal suffers from similar problems and in my view, the two towns have given up the ghost folloiwng their glory years when they were fully fledged garrison towns. Incidentally, the Cobh Cruiser Terminal (in front of the railway station/Queenstown Experience…and close to the river boat garda station!) disgorge hundreds of weatlhy passengers whenever a ship docks….who are promptly whisked off to either Kinsale, Blarney, or Killarney! Says it all really.

Cobh has massive potential and should be as popular as Kinsale or Clonakilty with its superb setting and historical / Architectural heritage.Its a fantastic town with great transport links and massive tourist potential.The disasterous manage of tgheb waterfront Titanic bar and its closure is a shame as it is in a great location.The marina development would be a boost to the East Beach area of the town also.Cobh has been going through a period of decline with the literal collapse of the old dirty harbour based industries and the Spike Island prison closure ( another tourist development opportunity ).Unfortunatly if you don’t drink alcohol there is’nt a lot to do in Cobh in the evenings but that is even changing as pubs in Cobh as elsewhere are adjusting to the newer drinking culture in Ireland.Lots of opportunities forn the council to update shopfronts and derelect sites in Cobh.Remember 25/30 years ago Kinsale was in a similar position to Cobh with zero investment and derilection and has been resting on its laurels a bit too much as its main street is’nt exactly well maintained shopfront wise.

@corcaighboy wrote:

Goldiefish – Great photo and whilst I realise that opinions on the building’s architectural merit vary, I for one concur that it is not appropriate. I feel that it jars completely with the red brick of the railway station.

Gianlorenzo – You hit the nail on the head. Cobh, despite having one of Ireland’s most interesting architectural and visual landscapes, has a tardy, beat-up look to the place. When one contrasts it with Kinsale and what they have done with relatively little in comparison, it is plain to see Cobh has missed the boat. Although we can blame the planners, the UDC, and other state bodies, I for one feel that the people of Cobh have to bear the blame since they have simply let their town slide into the mess it is today. Litter seems to be a perennial problem, and the place has always had a rough edge. Given that the town has so many natural physical advantages, it is doubly depressing. Youghal suffers from similar problems and in my view, the two towns have given up the ghost folloiwng their glory years when they were fully fledged garrison towns. Incidentally, the Cobh Cruiser Terminal (in front of the railway station/Queenstown Experience…and close to the river boat garda station!) disgorge hundreds of weatlhy passengers whenever a ship docks….who are promptly whisked off to either Kinsale, Blarney, or Killarney! Says it all really.

I have no doubt the building works perfectly for the Garda and having been in (thankfulyl just getting passport updated) it is functional, even a pleasant experience. The building in itself is interesting in shape but soemthing than may look well in say the Little Island Business parks in the foreshore there, no offence to Little Island but its intertesting shape might blend in nicely with the many box developments there.
My gripe is that with the Railway Station, Heritage Centre red brick and the numerous Victorian houses behind it, above it etc. , is is totally out of place.

Cobh itself, have lived here all my life and moved my business down here form Cork City after 10 years in traffic each morning. I have to agree that all blame cannot go to the planners and indeed the people of Cobh have to share much of the blame. Post its Garrison town days and post Liner days as the exit point for much of Ireland, its economy did suffer and by say 80s it most certainly was not a wealthy town and buildings were left go
into disrepair and at times title of property has been a nightmare where many older buildings beneficial owners had passed through non resident inheritances etc. Not all but it didn’t help and to this day, many a building one finds can still have unclear title etc.

However now in 2006, the population has increased dramatically with numerous new housing developments on the Island and at last there are signs of a greater wealth or spending power if I can call it that and I genuinely feel that new blood so to speak may in time bring the town back to some better level of repair and prosperity.

It is encumbent on our town elders /planners faciltate this and as their name suggest PLAN and not bleed any
would be small business with ridculous planning conditions that would not appear to apply to others…. A Level playing field when it come to planning.

Parking….. Don’t start me…. Where we are not one more space has become available due to the Traffic Warden as there was and still are many free. Instead we disruption to our business as we have to move our cars, like musical chairs when he is spotted…madness and as I say hasn’t done anything to create more spaces j,ust annoyance and hassle to clients seeing us and uping the council coffers on parking fines..when our spies miss him coming along the road.

Visiting cruise vessels and passys whisked away, you are right but much of that has to do with the marketing and business acumen of tour operators based outside of the town and we cannot knock them for that.
As we see more vessels coming in on repeat visits, this does seem to be changing, not hugely but more and more are spending their days in the town. Of course its the off-duty crews that give most benefit to the town
as once the punters are bused away, the crews get their time off and stay around.

Its open to debate as to whether US warships should be coming here, but when they do 80% of the crews
stay in Cobh…. many take train to Cork but by eve most back in da pubs of Cobh… spending and the most well behaved gangs we ever see.

anyway just to give you some local thoughts…

Just right on time for the fun. An artilce from today’s irish Independent.

I hope young Mr. Hally took a few of the lay-abouts from Cobh Urban District Council off in his chain-gang destinned fr Spike Island:

Trail unlocks history chest of Spike Island convicts

EOIN Hally and Shane Casey, above, get dressed up as members of a convict chain gang at Cobh Harbour to promote the upcoming conference: Spike Island – Hidden History an Opportunity in Tourism. The conference takes place in the Commodore Hotel in Cobh, Co Cork, on October 13.

Guest speakers include Rich Weideman (Ranger at Alcatraz). For further information contact Michael Martin on 087 276 7218.

Can remember the day the Current Prison closed and the hullabaloo on TV Radio. What amazed me at the time was I could see a Test Rig off Spike taking core samples or such like at the same time…. Looked to me as if plans for Super Prison with Bridge from mainland were on the cards all the time…and the closing etc. and moving of personnel was all for some other skullduggery.
As I say news was full of doom and gloom at the time about Spike Closing and exactly same time
surveying appeared to be going on, within the rough area of where a bridge could be put…
Was out on Spike as a kid and can recall us having a great time sneaking around old turrets, tunnels, magazines so plan would have merit but wonder if the OPW or Dept. of Justice have decided this one ages ago…

samuel j – I always found it odd that they wanted to shut Spike. I realise they had issues with industrial relations & staffing and perhaps that was the reason. Nevertheless, given that the state already owns the land and that the site would have no issues with NIMBY and other planning objections that would almost certainly arise with a greenfield site, it never really made sense to shut it down fully. I imagine that it will be renovated and made into some sort of high security prison. No sharks to dissuade potential escapees, but plenty of good old harbour muck to slow them down 😉

Here are some photos I took back in August of Spike.

Most of the Sharks in Cork live Ashore…..

Tourism Interests in/around cobh are trying their best to get it converted to some form an ‘Alcatraz’ and have kids doing school projects on it etc., fundraising but just fear it is a waste of the precious time and resources as decision as to its usage were set in stone or mudbanks ages ago.. Great Photos…..

Oddly enough, I believe it would be more of a tourist attaction if it were still a prison. Much more interest if they actually have dodgy characters there than not. Realistically, I don’t think it could be used for a viable tourism related function, especially given its limited access. Either way, expect no announcement either way until after the election.

And here is the life story of one of those “characters” associated with Oilean Pic -Spike Island:

http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/stc7z001.htm

Lovely pictures of Spike.

Has anyone had an opportunity to see the new labour exchange building which has just been completed in Cobh?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Has anyone had an opportunity to see the new labour exchange building which has just been completed in Cobh?

Haven’t been on for a while to forum.
Will try to get photo over weekend of new social welfare office….have passed it by car…dear god…another Cobh TC and OPW gem…..

Just some quick shots I got when passing over ther weekend showing new section towards Harbour Row/harbour hill and front of old customs buildinhs which beautifully restores, shame the TV had to be added to the back/

Has anybody lost a television set in Cobh?

Clearly, Cobh Urban District Council is quite intent on closing down the town as far a making it a tourist attraction is concerned. What with the guards in a Missihippin show boat and the unemployed asked to sign on in a discarded television case!!

Perhaps the time has come to close down the shambles that is Cobh Urban District Council before they close down the town.

Will try to get more shots as to the right of it and far right of it looking back up Harbour Hill are 1830s buildings
when you see in the flesh so to speak, it even looks mroe ridiculous and out fo place…

I haven’t been following this thread a whole lot, but when I saw that photo…. I have never seen a more disgusting building in my life. No joke….. it’s right manky!

@A-ha wrote:

I haven’t been following this thread a whole lot, but when I saw that photo…. I have never seen a more disgusting building in my life. No joke….. it’s right manky!

maybe it was designed to discourage people from going in to it to sign on

Are they having a fucking laugh? Who designs this crap? My god, make a building fit in, at least.

See that :

Monkstown Bay Marina Co. Ltd
Correspondence Address: C/O DJ Fitzgibbon & Co. Ltd
No.2, Empress Place
Summerhill North
Cork
Development Description: Construction of 82 no. berth marina with access deck at road level supported by piles

Will be interesting to see if they get on any better than Ascon-Cobh Marina developments. Court hearing for this apparently on planning procedure is on Oct 26th…….

@THE_Chris wrote:

Are they having a fucking laugh? Who designs this crap? My god, make a building fit in, at least.

And the hoops they make most mortals jump through when planning….. not a level playing field by any stretch of the imagination….

Yeah imagine if Joe Public wanted to build that exact building in that exact place. Like hell he’d get permission for it.

This morning’s IT:

Refusal of development objection overturned

The High Court has overturned An Bord Pleanála’s refusal to accept that a local group of objectors had lodged a valid appeal against a proposed development of 150 apartments, a marina and car park in Cobh, Co Cork.

Mr Justice John MacMenamim said the board’s objection to accepting the appeal as valid was “essentially technical”.

The board had said the appeal dated January 19th, 2005, and lodged on behalf of the Holy Ground and Environs Action Group, was invalid because it had not been accompanied, as required by the Planning and Development Act 2000, by “an appropriate acknowledgment”.

The board argued the only appropriate acknowledgment was a letter to the group from Cobh Town Council dated November 30th, 2004, the first of three letters to the group from the council.

The appeal was in fact accompanied by the third letter from the council to the group, dated January 11th 2005, in which the council, which had granted permission for the proposed development on December 16th 2004, acknowledged receipt of the group’s communications relating to the application for planning permission.

Cobh Town Council’s second letter was sent on December 17th, 2004.

The planning board’s refusal of January 26th, 2005, to accept that the group had lodged a valid appeal, was challenged in judicial review proceedings by Margaret Murphy, described as a member of the action group.

In his reserved judgment granting Ms Murphy’s challenge, Mr Justice MacMenamin noted a “curious procedure” by Cobh Town Council in using “minuscule font size or typeface” only for the purpose of dating its letters. This unusual date procedure had not been explained, he said.

The dating procedure of the letters from the council to the group was “unwittingly” a “trap to the unwary”, especially in view of the general similarity of the letters in layout and in substance, although there were some distinctions.

The letter of January 11th, 2005, sent by the group to the board was given within time and included the relevant information necessary for the board to proceed.

There was no prejudice to the board, he held.

Earlier, Mr Justice MacMenamin said the proposed development at Connolly Street, Cobh, was in the area well known as “the Holy Ground”.

It was an extensive development, consisting of a marina, 150 apartments in blocks of two and three storeys, a six-storey apartment building, commercial units and a car park.

He said the members of the action group objected to the development on grounds of its impact on the local environment, a risk of landslides, ecological aspects and alleged destruction of views of Cobh Harbour from a number of different vantage points.

Ms Murphy lived with her parents in close proximity to the location of the intended development.

© The Irish Times

in Kinsale……bad news for Cobh…. looks like I’ll be spending alot more of 2007 in Kinsale

Taken from the Lower Road Cobh

We lost the irish steel buildings only to be relaced by this monster…. skylines…. I fear all attention was on the incinerator issue and this one got by….

views of monster over ringskiddy / pfizers taken from various locations in cobh

Re posting 102:

I am beginning to think that we are looking for the delinquents in the wrong places in Cobh. Clearly, the nosocomia has been taken over by the inmates on the show boat. What next….gaga dancers and whoolahoops!

Has anyone ever noticed the odd looking monument at the Carrigtwohill turn off and the even odder inscription on it? Does anyone know what it says or what it means?

Pfizers should should be shot for this one. No amount of viagra production can ever justify this disgusting sight.

Wasn’t there something earlier on this thread about ridge line developments?

@descamps wrote:

Pfizers should should be shot for this one. No amount of viagra production can ever justify this disgusting sight.

Wasn’t there something earlier on this thread about ridge line developments?

sorry descamps….maybe my photos caued confusion. This blot in skyline is not Pfizers (which you can seeon right/lower down) but the new premises for Centocor a Johnson & Johnson company….

Regardless it horrendous and destoys skyline from many angles.

Well, shoot Centocor instead. No amount of cheap talcum powder is worth that pile of rubbish.

http://www.jnj.com/news/jnj_news/20050919_161401.htm;jsessionid=2YY530BAZKIKMCQPCCEGU3AKB2IIWTT1

With all that talk of biological culturing and growth, I hope that nothing gets out…otherwise, you would not want to be breathing the air down there.

‘Tis an awful pity that they do not devote some of their research to curing boils on the land-scape. You would imagine that with the squeeky-clean humanitarian PR stuff pumped out for public consumption that they wuld have thought of a more environment friendly factory over there in Ringaskiddy. And, am I mistaken in thinking that the 30 acre site is surrounded by an Alcatraz-like wall?

@Praxiteles wrote:

With all that talk of biological culturing and growth, I hope that nothing gets out…otherwise, you would not want to be breathing the air down there.

‘Tis an awful pity that they do not devote some of their research to curing boils on the land-scape. You would imagine that with the squeeky-clean humanitarian PR stuff pumped out for public consumption that they wuld have thought of a more environment friendly factory over there in Ringaskiddy. And, am I mistaken in thinking that the 30 acre site is surrounded by an Alcatraz-like wall?

The wall is to protect the mad scientists from the world and to prevent the mutants from returning to the scene of the crime.

Possible good news for Cobh:

A new town architect has been appointed and what is more interesting he is Italian and a graduate in architecture from the University of Rome. This is potentially a positive move and may well bring a badly needed more educated approach to matters of planning within the jurisdiction of the Cobh Urban District Council which up to now has been prepared to allow any old rubbish to be scattered acorss its landscape: just think of the awful water tower, the guards Show Boat and the Social Welfare’s Telly-Tubbies outfit!

However, it still remains to be seen as to how much our young Italian friend will be “allowed” to do by the Town Manageress and by that brilliant compliment of public administration that is the town clerk, P. Lynch. Even more interesting will be to see the extent of our Italian friend’s being “allowed” to have anything to do with Cobh Cathedral. Rumour has it that some of the apparachicks in the Cobh Urban Distrct Council have apprehensions about what some one from such a remote place as Italy and from such an unknown university as the Sapienza would know about architecture in general and Cobh Cathedral in particular. Rumour also has it that efforts are being made to keep the “Italian” out of the Cathedral business and to find ways of keeping the former town architect, the super-educated Denis Dease, involved in the Cathedral business. Short of relocating the Cathedral to Mallow it is difficult to see how they can keep the Italian out of it since this is waht he is being paid by the public to do.

Keeping D. Dease’s finger in the pie is an all together interesting move. It will be recalled that D. Dease made sure he was away on holidays when the application to wreck the Cathedral was made by the Cathedral Trustees in July 2005. Indeed, D. Dease has an awful habit of taking holidays. He must be one of the most holidayed local government employees in the country. D. Dease was also of the opinion that it was not of any significance that a couple of hooligans should go into the Cathedral and dig holes in the floor in the middle of the night without any permission. Then, of course, there is the question of what he knows about Pugin, Ashlin, Dideron, Viollet-le-Duc and the gothic revival in general. To that we can answer blank nothing! So why the urgency to keep out the possibly better educated Italian and and keep in theclearly useless but well holidayed Dease? Is the town clerk or the manageress thinking of building another water-tower outside the front door of the Cathedral?

Administrators should pull that last post.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Administrators should pull that last post.

And why that now?

@descamps wrote:

And why that now?

Exactly why should they….

@samuel j wrote:

Exactly why should they….

Because we are fed up of this contributors continuing rant about the Cobh Urban District Council,
He is now mentioning names – in a most insulting manner. This is beyond humour.

@lawyer wrote:

Because we are fed up of this contributors continuing rant about the Cobh Urban District Council,
He is now mentioning names – in a most insulting manner. This is beyond humour.

It must be a consolation for Cobh Urban District Council that someone loves them and is prepared to stand up for them in the face of all the odds.

Anything mentioned previously, is documented and available to the general public by means of an application under the Freedom of Information Act.

There must be someone out there who would like to know from Cobh Urban District Council how many days our friend Mr. Dease spent on holidays last year and when!

As for his report on the holes dug in the floor of the sanctuary last February, that can also be obtained by the same means.

Where is the rant in all of that?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Administrators should pull that last post.

I would have to disagree, censorship is a slippery slope.

@lawyer wrote:

Because we are fed up of this contributors continuing rant about the Cobh Urban District Council,
He is now mentioning names – in a most insulting manner. This is beyond humour.

…. and, no doubt, the “rant” is generated by the hyper-efficiency of the august DIstrict Council!!

😮 Somebody please tell me that the square TV like box building in Cobh is not the one that came “Highly commended” by the judges in this years Bank of Ireland Opus architecture awards?
If it is than the judges must be the same idiots that awarded Victoria Mills this accolade last year.:mad:

@lawyer wrote:

Because we are fed up of this contributors continuing rant about the Cobh Urban District Council,
He is now mentioning names – in a most insulting manner. This is beyond humour.

Who are/is the “we”? You are expressing a personal opinion and nothing else. Others including myself find this contributor most interesting and informed. It’s people like this “we” need to keep the likes of Cobh UDC on its toes.

@kite wrote:

😮 Somebody please tell me that the square TV like box building in Cobh is not the one that came “Highly commended” by the judges in this years Bank of Ireland Opus architecture awards?
If it is than the judges must be the same idiots that awarded Victoria Mills this accolade last year.:mad:

Kyte

Who got commended for designing the TV box?

Point taken about the names but interestingly enough I believe many in Cobh felt insulted to put it mildly in the manner the names handled the whole Cathedral re-ordering case.
Undoubtedly Praxiteles and many more feel very let down by the authorities that should be there as a unbiased protection mechanism. He does mention some recent eyesores that have been built within the Cobh Town council area, so I guess he and more like him cannot see any positve learning curve post the Cathedral debacle.

@descamps wrote:

Who are/is the “we”? You are expressing a personal opinion and nothing else. Others including myself find this contributor most interesting and informed. It’s people like this “we” need to keep the likes of Cobh UDC on its toes.

O.K. I withdraw the ‘we’.
I have stated before that I do not live in Cobh nor do I know anybody on the Cobh Urban District Council. I do visit Cobh 2 or 3 times a week.
However, I think it is beyond the bounds of humour to make disparaging comments about individuals here. Personally I dont care a jot how many days holidays or when the gentleman referred to has taken.
I do think it would be stupid to build a water tower anywhered other than on high ground. The Garda Station was opened in April 2002 – 4 and a half years ago.!!. I agree the Social Welfare Office is horrid but I assume this was a Board Of Works construction that does not require planning permission.

@lawyer wrote:

Because we are fed up of this contributors continuing rant about the Cobh Urban District Council,
He is now mentioning names – in a most insulting manner. This is beyond humour.

Names should not be mentioned as prixiteles post got a bit personal.

BTW we are all fed up with Cobh UDC rants as they are getting more obscure and longwinded paragraphs of bile.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Now, just to be clear about it -in case I have missed something – this is what was highly commended for a HERITAGE entry in the Opus Competition. Has THE_CHRIS seen this?

😮 Thats the one…
Take a look at what this joker O’Connor said in the Irish Times in 2005 when they gave Victoria Mills the award:mad:

Architecture contest where judges take a look
03/11/2005
Many architecture awards are judged just from pictures. Ciar

Oh! the smutty little boy! where did he open the shop?

Did he get planning permission for it and, if so, who gave it to him?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Oh! the smutty little boy! where did he open the shop?

Did he get planning permission for it and, if so, who gave it to him?

He does not own the shop, he opened a branch of Ann Summers in Cork while representing our city as Lord Mayor (it was his turn to get the chain of office):rolleyes:

I cannot say that I know Ann Summers, or that I would care to know her (in any sense of the word), but opening a smut shop is hardly an activity that one would associate with a venerable office that, for the most part, has been occupied by men of some probity over the centuries. It all smaks of a faulty sense judgement which is hardly what is needed in a pubic representative. Clearly, we are dealing with smutty little boy!

I have just googled Ann Summers and decided that I do not want to know her under any circumstances. Clearly, Burke must be one of “the rampant rabbit thrusters” she is currently touting. I am surprised that the Irish feminist movement seems to have lost its zeal for campaigining against the exploitation of women. Their Eurpopean counterparts, especially their Italian counterparts, solved the problem smut shops blighting the urban landscape by pretty agressive, and successful, campaigns. Perhaps what is left of the Irish Feminist movement could be convinced that its best interests would not be represented in Europe by Burke and they might launch a counter candidate. After all, inner urban sleaze is bad enough without the smut.

Perhaps the old myxamotis got the better of him….

This might explain the award for the refurbishment of the Custom House in CObh:

http://www.cobhharbourchamber.ie/businessnews.html

And Cobh Urban Disctrict Council features once again before An Bord Pleanala:

From the Great Island News:

FURTHER DELAYS FOR MARINA PLAN
An Bord Pleanála’s refusal to accept a local group of objectors appeal against the proposed marina was overturned by the High Court last week.
The planning board refused to accept that The Holy Ground and Environs Action Group had lodged a valid appeal on January 26th 2005 against the board’s decision to grant planning permission for a marina, 150 apartments in blocks of two and three storeys, a six-storey apartment building, commercial units and car park at Connolly Street or “The Holy Ground” here in Cobh.
Cobh Town Council had granted permission for the proposed development on December 16th 2004.The Board alleged the appeal was invalid because it had not been accompanied, as required by the Planning and Development Act 2000, by “an appropriate acknowledgement”.
Margaret Murphy, a member of the action group, challenged this refusal in judicial review proceedings and her challenge was granted by Mr. Justice MacMenamin.The letter of January 11th, 2005, sent by the group to the board was given within time and included the relevant information necessary for the board to proceed. Mr. Justice MacMenamin held “there was no prejudice to the board”.
During the High Court hearing Mr. Justice MacMenamin said the members of the action group objected to the development on the grounds of its impact on the local environment, a risk of landslides, ecological aspects and alleged destruction of views of Cork Harbour from a number of different vantage points.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I have just googled Ann Summers and decided that I do not want to know her under any circumstances. Clearly, Burke must be one of “the rampant rabbit thrusters” she is currently touting. I am surprised that the Irish feminist movement seems to have lost its zeal for campaigining against the exploitation of women. Their Eurpopean counterparts, especially their Italian counterparts, solved the problem smut shops blighting the urban landscape by pretty agressive, and successful, campaigns. Perhaps what is left of the Irish Feminist movement could be convinced that its best interests would not be represented in Europe by Burke and they might launch a counter candidate. After all, inner urban sleaze is bad enough without the smut.

😮 Poor old Colm Burke (F.G. Lord Mayor of Cork City) proberly could not see beond his fogged up glasses with all that flesh in view?
I agree that having this dude representing us women in Europe would be a disaster.

@THE_Chris wrote:

I would beg them though to stop the atrotious development of estates in the back of Cobh. Rushbrooke has been DESTROYED, and the area around Ticknock is being ruined. Crappy, crappy planning.

The thing that I always notice with Rushbrooke (especially when viewed from Monkstown) is the way the new houses cluster over the hill. In most of Cobh, the buildings run along the contours. I know that ignoring the hills is the way most other towns in Cork are built, but given the way the rest of Cobh is developed, I would have though it should have been a requirement for the new estates in Rushbrooke.

Jungle
You are right. As far as I can see the only criterion for building in Rushbrooke is, are you near a main sewer and a water main. After that you can get away with any old crap, just once you pay up your fees and of course a few grand to get connected to water and sewerage… to Cobh TC.
When a developer comes along with a plan for an estate… and thousands in fees etc….it seems to go right out the window as the type of premises already there…which in Rushbrooke consists of many fine old Victorian buildings.
The_Chris is right about more to come….. and I fear it will be like many postings on Kildare, Meath with little thought given to other services required to cope with the population increases. I guess they feel the huge Garda station/show boat stuck in the middle or numerous Victorian premises will cope with all…

@samuel j wrote:

You are right. As far as I can see the only criterion for building in Rushbrooke is, are you near a main sewer and a water main. After that you can get away with any old crap, just once you pay up your fees and of course a few grand to connected to water and sewerage… to Cobh TC.

As I understood it though, it was a deliberate policy of Cork Co Co. Villages in Cork traditionally had a clustered effect, so they wanted that in new developments. The problem is that it doesn’t give any respect to towns that have developed differently to this pattern.

I understand that they have issues with this in Courtmacsherry also, where a clustered development of holiday houses were built at the end of the village, while the village itself is generally developed along the contour of the hill and waterfront.

Not sure if relevant, but much of what you see now from say Monkstown is in two different planning juristictions. The actual border if I can call it that between Cork County Council and Cobh Town Council goes pretty much up through the areas you can see and/or their roof lines.
I live in area and just across from me I’m looking at a development in Cork CCs area, about 500m away, then if I turn 90 degrees I’m looking another one going up about 200m away in Cobh TCs area. My point being, even if there was such
foresight, I fear left hand and right hand may not exactly share such wisdom. Could be wrong but as it stands
doesn’t look like anyone gave it much thought.

@samuel j wrote:

Not sure if relevant, but much of what you see now from say Monkstown is in two different planning juristictions. The actual border if I can it that between Cork County Council and Cobh Town Council goes pretty much up through the areas you can see and/or their roof lines.
I live in area and just across from me I’m looking at a development in Cork CCs area, about 500m away, then if I turn 90 degrees I’m looking another one going up about 200m away. My point being, even if there was such
foresight, I fear left hand and right hand may not exactly share such wisdom. Could be wrong but as it stands
doesn’t look like anyone gave it much thought.

The solution is probably LAPs

LAPs – you are right. It should. Reading through the Cobh Lap, which was only adopted by the TC in May 2005, there are wonderful passages. volume 1 page 9 and 10 are great. Alas much of iffy estates we now see were given planning pre 05 and Section on page 10 F this is exactly the area the garda building is…. Victorian buildings to its left, right and above. If the LAP is enforeced then great but I fear much of it is akin to closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
http://www.cobh.ie/files/Volume_1.pdf
http://www.cobh.ie/files/Volume_2.pdf

@jdivision wrote:

The solution is probably LAPs

I’m not so sure that Local Area Plans are, or can be the solution to bad planning as LAP’s are non statutory and cannot be in conflict with the County (or City) Development Plans in place at the time.

Planning and Development (amendment) Act 2002
8.—Section 19 of the Principal Act is amended by substituting the following subsection for subsection (2):
“(2) A local area plan shall be consistent with the objectives of the development plan…

Hope this is of some help?

@samuel j wrote:

LAPs – you are right. It should. Reading through the Cobh Lap, which was only adopted by the TC in May 2005, there are wonderful passages. volume 1 page 9 and 10 are great. Alas much of iffy estates we now see were given planning pre 05 and Section on page 10 F this is exactly the area the garda building is…. Victorian buildings to its left, right and above. If the LAP is enforeced then great but I fear much of it is akin to closing the gate after the horse has bolted.
http://www.cobh.ie/files/Volume_1.pdf
http://www.cobh.ie/files/Volume_2.pdf

Thanks Sam for drawing our attention to such a wonderful document as the Cobh Development Plan. It really is a mine of comical entertainment. Were it not for the numerous grammatical errors it might have been entered for the Booker Prize for it certainly is a masterpiece of contemporary fiction.

Praxiteles would like to illustrate this with a few examples: the minds (if so we wish to call them) in operation in the Urban District Council cite a brace of directives from the Minister of the Environment on the lofty subject of bilingual place names. By that I take it mean that a sign indicating the name of a place should be in both English and Irish. Thus a traditional English place name will have an Irish equivalant and vice versa.

The Cobh Urban District Council, however, appears to have confused bilingualism and promotion of the Irish language. While not mutually exclusive terms, bilingualism and promotion of the Irish language are not synonymous terms.

On page 70 of the Development Plan the following is stated: “The Town Council has been to the fore in this movement [promotion of the Irish language] and will continue this policy as directed by the Minister for the Environment, directive (sic) F. 15/74 and F. 2/86, which states (sic): ‘Local authorities should use a bilingual form of name plates for new housing areas and for new plates in old housing areas when they are due for replacement if an English only format is used at present'” (p. 70). We are then informed: “Under new regulations introduced in 2004 all signs and place names must be indicated in Irish, along with all other signs and council produced documents”. And then, the following is intimated. “The most recently constructed council housing estate was given an Irish name. It is the intention (sic) that all new signs and place names that are erected will be in Irish. It is the intention (sic) also that all signs and documents will be in Irish” (p. 71).

What are we to make of all of this? Did the estate with the Irish name get a bilingual name-plate? Furthermore, given the amount of EU law on official languages withing the EU, it would be interesting to hear from some of our legal friends whether EU law might not require both the minister to amend his directives and Cobh Urban District Council their “intentions”.

Notwithstanding the UDC’s “intentions”, I have been unable to find an Irish language version of the Council’s minutes on the UDC webpage. When are we likely to see that?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Were it not for the numerous grammatical errors it might have been entered for the Booker Prize for it certainly is a masterpiece of contemporary fiction.

Isn’t it just…. Pages 9 and 10 of Volume II regarding objective that all developments must be designed to compliment existing architecture, townscape and character….. did anyone look at the street East and West of the Telly Tubbies TV aka new social welfare office.

Maybe its just me… but if that is in character….I am might as well sign up to the Telly tubbies fan forum and post no more in Archiseek.

Jungle, Samuel J – Here are a couple of aerial photos I took back in August which gives you some idea of the urban sprawl in the Cobh area.

This shot gives an idea of the sprawl from Rushbrooke (with an ‘e’, correct?) The dockyard is also in the picture, as are the two large ESB pylons that caused much controversy a few years back when residents were seeking to have them put underwater rather than across the channel.

Great shots CB…. can spot my own old gaff in there….
in your no. 2 photo Nuns field by Norwood Convent recently sold and another 62 houses going in there…. it last field
next to Norwood Church. Its the last big field on picture 2 with church/convent on bottom left of it and above the dockyard

Will get some shots on Sunday of view from Monkstown towards this sprawl and will post….

Sam J

@corcaighboy wrote:

Jungle, Samuel J – Here are a couple of aerial photos I took back in August which gives you some idea of the urban sprawl in the Cobh area.

The little village in the top left of this pic, in the distance, is Ballymore. Thats the place I mentioned that there would be a couple of hundred houses popping up in the next few years.

Criminal 🙁 Theres no sewage treatment there (at all), only a local community water system, which ISNT hooked up to the Cobh water towers and precious little roads, no buses or anything.

And the muppets grant rezoning permission. :rolleyes:

And the little T shaped piece jutting out into the harbour, just below the bay (Cuskinny bay) is where the proposed Marina is to go, I think. Can anyone tell me why theres so much objection to it? As it stands, its a pit.

Permit me to join your merry little band and comment on a few of the matters you have been discussing. On the issue of Ballymore and the attempted rezoning under the Midleton Electoral Area Local Area Plan, proposal was to re designate the road from Ballymore to Walterstown School as a ‘village nucleus’. This area is probably one of the worst examples of ribbon developement you will find anywhere. A couple of kilometers of bungalows all with septic tanks. (The residents seem to see no relationship between their contaminated water supply and the proliferation of unmaintained septic tanks). Furthermore the majority are constructed on the ridge. Crazy idea driven by non farming farmers and a local auctioneer.
I submitted to the plan that a village nucleus already exists in Ballmore itself and that planning granted for the village should in future augment the generation of a village style settlement by generating a streetscape and in the process perhaps facilitate some affordable housing.(bet that went down well with some) .They had already granted permission for a bungalow at the “T” junction of the village, so that scuppers that idea I suppose

@SirNorman wrote:

Permit me to join your merry little band and comment on a few of the matters you have been discussing. On the issue of Ballymore and the attempted rezoning under the Midleton Electoral Area Local Area Plan, proposal was to re designate the road from Ballymore to Walterstown School as a ‘village nucleus’.

I submitted to the plan that a village nucleus already exists in Ballmore itself and that planning granted for the village should in future augment the generation of a village style settlement by generating a streetscape and in the process perhaps facilitate some affordable housing.(bet that went down well with some) .They had already granted permission for a bungalow at the “T” junction of the village, so that scuppers that idea I suppose

That was far too sensible with which to be able to come to terms for any local authority.

@SirNorman wrote:

Permit me to join your merry little band and comment on a few of the matters you have been discussing. On the issue of Ballymore and the attempted rezoning under the Midleton Electoral Area Local Area Plan, proposal was to re designate the road from Ballymore to Walterstown School as a ‘village nucleus’. This area is probably one of the worst examples of ribbon developement you will find anywhere. A couple of kilometers of bungalows all with septic tanks. (The residents seem to see no relationship between their contaminated water supply and the proliferation of unmaintained septic tanks). Furthermore the majority are constructed on the ridge. Crazy idea driven by non farming farmers and a local auctioneer.
I submitted to the plan that a village nucleus already exists in Ballmore itself and that planning granted for the village should in future augment the generation of a village style settlement by generating a streetscape and in the process perhaps facilitate some affordable housing.(bet that went down well with some) .They had already granted permission for a bungalow at the “T” junction of the village, so that scuppers that idea I suppose

Welcome Sir Norman…. 1st of many posts I hope.
Strange view by residents that no link, they all well sourced water supplies I would think…and would have though many good and bad tanks in area. Septic tank permission I believe have now got tighter (or at least according to two pals of mine that have recently built..costly I hear) but many houses have been built on that bally-walter stretch before recent times so would doubt if all have decent systems and/or correct perculation
with respect to neighnours wells.
You know any more about the 90+ houses mentioned in thread by and the helpfulness of a councillor…

The_Chris : Tee Pier – used by local fishermen and station for Cork Harbour Pilot launches. Their Port Ops building directly above it and you are right. Marina between it and upriver. I saw in one section of objection, this bit of strand was used for whale watching…I kid you not.
A few years a go 3 killer whales did enter Cork harbour. One subsequently died of natural causes and it sis believed the other two stayed with her until the end…..very civilised stuff.
They left and have not been seen since…. but to call this a beach for whale watching is a joke. Also claimed it would be a danger to navigation, again untrue, no one in the port of cork ever said it could be a danger. Beach was cleaned a bit by objector group when it suited them…wonder how long this will continue before it reverts to its more usual gathering spot for flotsam and jetsam …of all descriptions

Theres plenty more fun stuff but at this stage its gone beyond a joke and is Cobha last last chance…

This is developers site : http://www.cobhmarina.ie/gallery.php

To return to the Cobh UDC Local Development Plan and what we can learn from it.

Sections of the first volumn are written in the most amazingly hyperbolic English conveyed in an equally tenuous knowledge of English grammar and orthography. Whoever wrote this piece does not know how to form the Saxon genetive nor indeed numerative plurals (e.g. 1850’s).

Reading the general morphology and topography of the town of Cobh, at times, one cannot help wondering whether the person who wrote this section of the Local Development Plan had ever actually visited the town. The morphology and topography of Cobh could just as easily have been written in Timbuctoo from a set of Ordinance Survey maps and the usual historical sources for the topography of Cork (Smith, Trotter, Lewis). Had the person who did write this section actually visited Cobh, I think we might be forgiven for wondering whether that person might not have been visually impaired.

In terms of the historical development of Cobh, I have failed to find even the slightest hint that for over 200 years the town has been the seat of a residential bishop and centre of government for the diocese of Cloyne – a fact that has not been without effect on Cobh. It does seem rather churlish to suggest that for the greater part of that period of time the town was comprised mostly of seafarers and revenue men – unless of course the present UDC in Cobh consider the episcopal succession in Cloyne to have been made up mostly of seafarers or revenue men or both. This unfortunate prose effect would need a little pruning when the UDC gets around to revising the Local Area Plan in 2011.

Let me quote from the great text at page 10:

“G: The Old Town centre

The town centre nestles in a valley between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill. it (sic) comprises two well proportioned Nineteenth squares (sic) located on a gentle crescent overlooking the esplanade and harbour. Rising above the town centre much of the valley and land between Ballynoe Hill and Ticknock Hill within the Town Council area comprises 1950’s (sic) + suburban housing”.

We might be able to organise a prize for the first person to notice any omission in this description of the topography of the “Old Town Centre”.

And here is another interesting piece from the Local Development Plan for Cobh (p. 10):

“Area F: Suburbian Victoriana:

The lower portion of the Southern hillside from the Whitepoint area to the town centre are ornamented by nunteenth century villas generously spaced in leafy, Robinsonian, ornamental greenery attractively framing tatefully designed villas set in mature woodland. The topography, the south facing aspect, the vegitation, the sea views, the thoughtfully scaled disposition of the buildings all create the illusion of detached country houses that belie the density involved. This is a very vertical space with a number of cliff like areas to which the buildings cling to the side. The hanging gardens effect further reduces the apparent density.

These factors create the potential for a unique architectural and landscape conservation area”.

At the bnottom of all that verbiage is the simple assertion taht the area between Whitpoint and the town centre is an area of particular architectural and heritage interest taht should be regarded as a prime subject for conservation. That point may perhaps have been clearer to the denizens in the Cobh UDC had it not been wrapped up in a verbiage of “Robinsonian” greenery.

And how has Cobh UDC reacted toall of this?

Well, in the middle of all of the leafy Robinsonian greenery, and of the the thoughtfully scaled disposition of the buildings, Cobh UDC allowed the building of the following illusion of a south-facing country house with strong vertical lines and clinging to the edgeof the cliff, thereby enhancing this “unique architectural and landscape conservation area”!

You certainly have to hand it to Cobh Urban District Council: They knows a good piece of Victoriana when they sees it!!

@samuel j wrote:

Welcome Sir Norman…. 1st of many posts I hope.
Strange view by residents that no link, they all well sourced water supplies I would think…and would have though many good and bad tanks in area. Septic tank permission I believe have now got tighter (or at least according to two pals of mine that have recently built..costly I hear) but many houses have been built on that bally-walter stretch before recent times so would doubt if all have decent systems and/or correct perculation
with respect to neighnours wells.
You know any more about the 90+ houses mentioned in thread by and the helpfulness of a councillor…

There is a local community water scheme in Ballymore/Walterstown. Its provided from a 150-200ft deep well on reasonably high ground.

Most people do have wells, my folks live in the general area and have a 120ft deep one. Nicest water Ive ever tasted, I will say that., much better than the shite I get here up in Galway. It was tested a few years ago, and passed all tests, except for a slightly high Nitrate (or Nitrite, cant remember) concentration. That said, they’re on the edge of development and are effectively ‘first in line’ for the water flow.

All houses have septic tanks, yes they are getting much more strict with them, but Id say most houses would fail a test if there is one.

IMO Ballymore should be left as it is (no more ribbon development and no estates thx). Much better infrastructure is needed (transport, water, etc etc etc) before anything should go ahead. And maybe a shop. Concentrate tasteful development on Cobh, and leave Ballymore etc a greenfield site as it is. Maybe a bit of a streetscape, but keep it to Ballymore, and not sprawl it out to Walterstown.

Edit: And does anyone else think it crazy that Cobh, as an island, is under two seperate governing bodies? The town, up to Cuskinny, is under Cobh, the rest of the island under Midleton??? So the country area gets shafted cos Midleton dont give a rats about it.

@THE_Chris wrote:

There is a local community water scheme in Ballymore/Walterstown. Its provided from a 150-200ft deep well on reasonably high ground.

Most people do have wells, my folks live in the general area and have a 120ft deep one. Nicest water Ive ever tasted, I will say that., much better than the shite I get here up in Galway. It was tested a few years ago, and passed all tests, except for a slightly high Nitrate (or Nitrite, cant remember) concentration. That said, they’re on the edge of development and are effectively ‘first in line’ for the water flow.

All houses have septic tanks, yes they are getting much more strict with them, but Id say most houses would fail a test if there is one.

IMO Ballymore should be left as it is (no more ribbon development and no estates thx). Much better infrastructure is needed (transport, water, etc etc etc) before anything should go ahead. And maybe a shop. Concentrate tasteful development on Cobh, and leave Ballymore etc a greenfield site as it is. Maybe a bit of a streetscape, but keep it to Ballymore, and not sprawl it out to Walterstown.

Edit: And does anyone else think it crazy that Cobh, as an island, is under two seperate governing bodies? The town, up to Cuskinny, is under Cobh, the rest of the island under Midleton??? So the country area gets shafted cos Midleton dont give a rats about it.

Its mad Chris, I in Rushbrooke area and just across from me I’m looking at a development in Cork CCs area, about 500m away, then if I turn 90 degrees I’m looking another one going up about 200m away in Cobh TCs area. A simple task like checking on whats going on around you mean going to 2 different agencies depending on where the balls hops….

Yeah. And the story about the estates in Ballymore is to do with all that. All these rezoning requests have to be published in the local news before they go ahead. It did. In Midletons Imokilly People, which noone on Cobh island reads and probobly isnt available on the island.

So the first anyone knew about the planned rezoning was when it had progressed to a stage where it couldnt easily be stopped. I was at the local meeting where all this was revealed – people were up in arms and Cllr Mulvihill lost a LOT of votes that night by arguing with anyone who tried to object….

Indeed Imokilly People viwed in Cobh as an East Cork paper and readership would be miniscule… nasty old tack. The Cllr not doing himself any favours……ah well his choice.

Bingo Sam!

You got it in one. Now we shall have to arrange the prize….. How about a Veuve or dare I speak the name of Kristal?

@samuel j wrote:

Indeed Imokilly People viwed in Cobh as an East Cork paper and readership would be miniscule… nasty old tack. The Cllr not doing himself any favours……ah well his choice.

The same Cllr. Mulvihill did himself no favours either re. the Cobh Cathedral debacle. He did a lot of political huffing and puffing in an attempt to be seen to be on every side of every fence. Unfortunately, this debased form of Realpolitik robbed him of all credibility and, I expect, the FOSCC will ensure that he will pay the price come the next elections! Vae victis!!

I hate to admit it but I do not know who the Callan poet John Locke is. he is mentioned in the Cobh UDC Local Development Plan but a he appears nowhere in the Oxford Companion to English Literature. Any clues anyone?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Bingo Sam!

You got it in one. Now we shall have to arrange the prize….. How about a Veuve or dare I speak the name of Kristal?

Kristal fine to mention, just once you don’t combine it with any references to the post tea time thuggery…..of times past.

I think that was another Kristall…with two “l”s !!

@Praxiteles wrote:

I think that was another Kristall…with two “l”s !!

I jujst knew you would spot that…….

John Locke – Fenian poet and journalist..I didn’t make it up….swear
John Locke himself was born in Minauns, Callan on July 26, 1847. His father was Thomas Locke, an accountant in the leather firm of Mr. Patrick Cody, and his mother was Mary Ryan, a Tipperary woman.
At school John was known as ‘The Little Officer’ because of his black breaded cap, but attracted more attention for his ability to play the game of hurling.
John Locke was regarded as the most stylish hurler that Callan National School had ever seen.
When in school John used to write verses of poetry on slips of paper and went on to have his first of many poems published in 1863 at the age of 16 years. The most famous of these poems was Dawn on the Irish Coast, written in 1877 and later included in school books by the Irish Christian Brothers. He is best remembered in Callan for his poem The Calm Avonree. As a teenager John became involved in the Nationalist movement through his poetry and journalism, and became a prominent figure at Nationalist meetings held in his own county.
During the year 1867 John was arrested and after the formality of a trial was sentenced to six months’ jail in Kilkenny. He was later released on bail but he was determined to continue as a member of the I.R.B.
Locke then visited Manchester and after that to America and continued to be an active Nationalist.
In 1881 John Locke married Mary Cooney – a native of Kilkenny city – in Villanova College in New York. This ceremony was performed by Rev. Dr. Joseph Locke, O.S.A., brother of Jim.
On January 31, 1889 John Locke died at the early age of 42 years.

@samuel j wrote:

I jujst knew you would spot that…….

John Locke – Fenian poet and journalist..I didn’t make it up….swear
John Locke himself was born in Minauns, Callan on July 26, 1847. His father was Thomas Locke, an accountant in the leather firm of Mr. Patrick Cody, and his mother was Mary Ryan, a Tipperary woman.
At school John was known as ‘The Little Officer’ because of his black breaded cap, but attracted more attention for his ability to play the game of hurling.
John Locke was regarded as the most stylish hurler that Callan National School had ever seen.
When in school John used to write verses of poetry on slips of paper and went on to have his first of many poems published in 1863 at the age of 16 years. The most famous of these poems was Dawn on the Irish Coast, written in 1877 and later included in school books by the Irish Christian Brothers. He is best remembered in Callan for his poem The Calm Avonree. As a teenager John became involved in the Nationalist movement through his poetry and journalism, and became a prominent figure at Nationalist meetings held in his own county.
During the year 1867 John was arrested and after the formality of a trial was sentenced to six months’ jail in Kilkenny. He was later released on bail but he was determined to continue as a member of the I.R.B.
Locke then visited Manchester and after that to America and continued to be an active Nationalist.
In 1881 John Locke married Mary Cooney – a native of Kilkenny city – in Villanova College in New York. This ceremony was performed by Rev. Dr. Joseph Locke, O.S.A., brother of Jim.
On January 31, 1889 John Locke died at the early age of 42 years.

Sam, thanks for that!

You learn something new every day!

Here are some more aerial shots.of the harbour
First pic is looking out from Great Island towards the mouth of the harbour.

Here is one of Aghada power station, which is apparently due a big refit/expansion soon. Interesting discussion on another thread re the Poolbeg chimneys in Dublin. Aghada is a mere pup compared to those two, at only 120m.

The Whitegate oil refinery jetty is in the foreground with Cobh, Ringaskiddy, Haulbowline, and Spike Island in the distance

Tried to zoom in a bit to give a better view

Bioverda, the bioenergy subsidiary of NTR plc, has today announced its plan. to build a vegetable oil based biodiesel facility in the Port of Cork

http://www.ntr.ie/downloads/50-Million-Investment-By-Bioverda-in-Cork-Biodiesel.pdf

And where exactly are they going to build that now?

@Praxiteles wrote:

And where exactly are they going to build that now?

The New Port of Cork aka Ringskiddy most likely site but they not saying exactly….

PDF is POC plan

I notice in the weekly report ending 17 November 2006 for Planning Permission Application Received by Cork County Council that Pfizer’s have an application for the construction of some more chimney stacks. Has anyone else noticed?

@Praxiteles wrote:

I notice in the weekly report ending 17 November 2006 for Planning Permission Application Received by Cork County Council that Pfizer’s have an application for the construction of some more chimney stacks. Has anyone else noticed?

They have many ongoing applications filed. As far I can make out the towers are replacements of existing ones
“Replacement of solvent towers and extension to tanker unloading facility and control room”

I have it on good authority that the Spike Island Prison is not to go ahead, instead it is to be located in Kilworth. Fantastic news!

Didn’t hear Kilworth mentioned but did hear Spike likely to be off list….
Was out there as a kid when it still used for cattle quarantine… had a ball out there loads of alleysway
turrets… certainly gave a bunch of us the day of our life. Good luck to all hoping to make it more and get visitors back to it.

@phatman wrote:

I have it on good authority that the Spike Island Prison is not to go ahead, instead it is to be located in Kilworth. Fantastic news!

In Kilworth? Do you mean the Kilworth near Fermoy? Anyone incarcerated up there will die of the cold!

I think the army or the FCA had a camp in Kilworth previously, so I guess any new prison will be on that property.

The army still have an active bse there. The prison will be built on Dept of Defence owned lands between the Camp and the existing Corbett Court Hotel.

@Angry Rebel wrote:

The army still have an active bse there. The prison will be built on Dept of Defence owned lands between the Camp and the existing Corbett Court Hotel.

But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?

@Praxiteles wrote:

But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?

That was one of the main reason spike had been chosen as Nimbyism would not apply. would expect if the own the kilworth land it will work our cheaper than bridge etc. to spike beofre one even builds the prison.

Of late no one was really allowed on Spike..have heard than already this week coming some school kids are going out on a trip there…so definately local signals are of a change of policy alright.

@samuel j wrote:

That was one of the main reason spike had been chosen as Nimbyism would not apply. would expect if the own the kilworth land it will work our cheaper than bridge etc. to spike beofre one even builds the prison.

Of late no one was really allowed on Spike..have heard than already this week coming some school kids are going out on a trip there…so definately local signals are of a change of policy alright.

I never realised how amazing Spike is until someone posted aerial pictures recently, some amazing buildings out there. It rivals Charles Fort, its setting really is special. So hopefully now that the opportunity has presented itself I hope that its potential will be exploited, be it visitor centre, ferries from Cobh etc. 😮

It sure is and tunnels all over the place leading to old magazines, turrets. The moat itself is amazing…
Even in its present state is amazing…imagine if work like was done on Charlesfort was done to it…

@samuel j wrote:

Most of the Sharks in Cork live Ashore…..

haha…brilliant!

@Praxiteles wrote:

But is that not the firing range? And what are the locals going to say about all that?

Irish Examiner > 2006/11/23 >

Army camp a contender for super-prison

The 1,200-acre camp, located close to the M8 motorway between Mitchelstown and Fermoy, has been surveyed in recent weeks by the Department of Justice and the Prisons Service with a view to assessing its suitability as the so-called “super-prison” for Munster. The new prison is expected to house as many as 500 prisoners.

However, if Kilworth were to be selected, the prison would take up only a portion of the huge site, with the Defence Forces remaining in situ on the remaining part of the facility, which is also known as Lynch Camp.

Last night, a Department of Justice spokesperson confirmed that a proposal to locate the new prison at Kilworth is currently being examined by officials.

“No decision has yet been made,” the spokesperson pointed out, however.

Until now, Spike Island had been perceived as the likely location for the new prison — and was thought to be the preferred option of the Department of Justice.

But the proposal was harshly criticised by Cork east Fianna Fáil TD Ned O’Keeffe on the basis that such a large-scale development on the island, involving so many prisoners, was inappropriate.

Last weekend, his party colleague in the constituency, Junior Minister Michael Ahern, also expressed strong criticism of the proposed location.

During a recent visit to Cork, Tánaiste Michael McDowell said he was open to consider other options besides Spike Island but none had come forward. In so doing, the minister indicated that no definite decision had been taken to locate the prison on Spike Island.

Contacted by the Irish Examiner last night, Mr O’Keeffe reacted by saying he was totally opposed to the proposed location of the prison at Kilworth.

“This is a surprise. As the local deputy I am dismayed that I have not been consulted. I will need to communicate with my constituents if that is the case,” he said.

“I am sure that many people in the Kilworth, Mitchelstown and Fermoy areas will be disturbed. I do not believe this site is a suitable location for such a large prison. I do not want it foisted on the people of that area,” he said.

Last May, Spike Island was first proposed as the location of the new prison, two years after the complex on the site closed its doors. However, local residents immediately mounted a campaign against the proposal.

Earlier this month, Mr McDowell said he expected to make a decision soon on the location for the prison in Munster.

Campaigners have said if the island’s tourism potential was tapped properly, it could become Ireland’s version of Alcatraz.

Some more shots of Spike Island as it is now..

Nice pictures Sam. How did the place get into such a state of dereliction?

Eh…the government own it!

@Angry Rebel wrote:

Eh…the government own it!

Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.

An interesting comparison for Spike is Governor’s Island off lower Manhattan. See
http://www.governorsislandalliance.org/

Kilworth is probably the coldest place in Ireland, great place to freeze the villains!
KB2

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.

Have a look at the Magazine Fort in the Phoenix Park for similar dereliction.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Its a national disgrace that this facility with so much potential is left to rot.Imagine if this was located in Dublin ? There would be an outcry on a massive scale.
What crap politicians and civil servants we have to let this potential go to waste and now they want to place a modern prison on it to obliterate any hope of tourist / visitor development.

That indeed is in good part the root cause of many of our problems. Just because Spike is inaccessible to the general public the government and their flunkies are prepared to let the entire thing rot to bits. Can you imagine anything like this happening on Elba?

@Praxiteles wrote:

That indeed is in good part the root cause of many of our problems. Just because Spike is inaccessible to the general public the government and their flunkies are prepared to let the entire thing rot to bits. Can you imagine anything like this happening on Elba?

Will post a few more shots later at the risk of ending up in Spike….. Would you believe that the group
out there were told no photos were to be taken…. fortunately that was like a red rag to a bull to some of the more youthful members of the group… who did his best …

KB2 – I camped at Kilworth aons ago, and I agree…the place displays similar traits to the North Pole.
Samuel J – Great photos. Always amazes me that the various fortifications left over from the days Cork harbour was a staging post for the Brits have been left to rot. Fort Carlisle and Fort Camden offer incredible vistas and given that they stand at the highest point at the mouth of the harbour (and directly opposite each other), they should really be utilised more fully. For various reasons, access is denied (as anyone who walks out by Roches Point will know). Spike, Carlisle, and Camden (not sure of the Irish names) should be given the Charlesfort (Kinsale) treatment at the very least.
Snap below is of one of the them. Samuel J…maybe you can fill me in.


You can just about make out the two forts here….this is a view from the Crosshaven side

@samuel j wrote:

Will post a few more shots later at the risk of ending up in Spike….. Would you believe that the group
out there were told no photos were to be taken…. fortunately that was like a red rag to a bull to some of the more youthful members of the group… who did his best …

Do not tell me that Das Grosscorkische Reich has already established itself on Spike?

@corcaighboy wrote:

KB2 – I camped at Kilworth aons ago, and I agree…the place displays similar traits to the North Pole.
Samuel J – Great photos. Always amazes me that the various fortifications left over from the days Cork harbour was a staging post for the Brits have been left to rot. Fort Carlisle and Fort Camden offer incredible vistas and given that they stand at the highest point at the mouth of the harbour (and directly opposite each other), they should really be utilised more fully. For various reasons, access is denied (as anyone who walks out by Roches Point will know). Spike, Carlisle, and Camden (not sure of the Irish names) should be given the Charlesfort (Kinsale) treatment at the very least.
Snap below is of one of the them. Samuel J…maybe you can fill me in.

Interesting like here on all of them :

http://www.palmerstonforts.org.uk/redan/cork.htm

and :
Camden Fort
Camden (Fort Meagher) is recognised internationally to be one of the world’s finest examples of a Classical Coast Artillery Fort. Fortifications at the site date from about 1550. They were further added-to in 1600. However, after the Battle of Kinsale the Fort became derelict. At the end of the 17th. century the Fort was fortified by the Jacobites in an effort to block the Williamites’ naval forces. In 1690 it fired on the Williamite fleet as it entered Cork Harbour, but was silenced by a party sent ashore to attack it. It was known as James’ Battery and consisted of two blockhouses and eight guns. During the war against the French in the late 1780’s Crosshaven got a permanent garrison and the threat of war with Spain around 1790 led to the erection of new gun batteries on the site. By 1837, the Fort contained only a token force of a master gunner and eight men. In 1875 the land side of the Fort was modified for the mounting of 30 additional guns. Sitting at the west side of the harbour it covers about 60 acres and stands about 200 feet above sea level. The fort area is honeycombed with underground passages and emplacements including a large magazine. It has a magnificent tunnel, engineered to house the fixed torpedo invented by Louis Philip Brennan. The Fort was handed over to the Irish Army in 1938 and in 1989 Cork County Council acquired ownership. Current plans include the development of a Military Heritage Centre and general tourist attractions, including visitor accommodation, watersport facilities, craftshops and restaurant. On the opposite side of the harbour stands its sister fort; Carlisle (Fort Davis) which was possibly one of the earliest bastioned forts in the country. It is owned by the Dept. of Defence.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Do not tell me that Das Grosscorkische Reich has already established itself on Spike?

Alas my intrepid spy could not get shots of the interesting tunnels to the huge south facing guns and
of the turret itself…. minders were keeping to close an eye….

Comments from the youthful group on return was as posters here, a shame if left to go sh** but
all agreed it could be massive if anything like the work done on Charlesfort was done to it

Just in case anyone was wondering about anything in the air over Cork harbour these days, we might have an explaination fromn the following in to-day’s Irish Times:

Crematorium to open in Cork
Jack Fagan

The first crematorium outside Dublin opens next Monday on an island in Cork harbour. It is expected to cater for around 700 cremations in the first year.

Until now, families in the south of Ireland who opted for this form of funeral service have had to make the long journey to Dublin, where there are three crematoriums.

Almost 30 per cent of funerals in Dublin, or about 2,000 services a year, involve cremations.

People choose cremation for a variety of reasons including the personal wishes of the deceased. One reason for the rapid increase in the numbers opting for cremation rather than burial is the considerable cost savings involved and also the acute shortage of plots in cemeteries where close relations are already buried.

The opening of the Cork crematorium comes after several failed attempts by various business people to obtain planning permission.

The issue was finally resolved when Clonmel-based businessman Louis Ronan acquired Rocky Island, close to the naval base at Haulbowline, and later secured permission to convert an early 19th century gunpowder magazine into a crematorium.

The approach to the island takes motorists across a bridge from Ringaskiddy, about eight miles from Cork city.

The classical-style brick vaults that will house the crematorium have been sensitively restored under the direction of Patrick Creedon of architects Magee Creedon.

The unusual entrance runs through a cave-like tunnel into a courtyard with a large water feature and a 90-year-old arbutus tree imported from Italy.

The three original vaults running from one end of the building to the other have been fitted out for use as a spiritual area, family room and refreshments area, as well as for staff quarters.

Mourners will leave via a second courtyard at the back of the building.

Mr Ronan is principal of Enfer Scientific Ltd in Co Kildare, which was the first biotechnology company to develop a rapid test screening system for BSE.

“The opening of the Cork crematorium comes after several failed attempts by various business people to obtain planning permission.” – One of these was in Ovens… I’m not making this up………..

Further signs of Das Grosscorkische Reich?

@corcaighboy wrote:

Jungle, Samuel J – Here are a couple of aerial photos I took back in August which gives you some idea of the urban sprawl in the Cobh area.

This shot gives an idea of the sprawl from Rushbrooke (with an ‘e’, correct?) The dockyard is also in the picture, as are the two large ESB pylons that caused much controversy a few years back when residents were seeking to have them put underwater rather than across the channel.

I have to correct you there. The pylons you indicate have been there since the early 80s and at the time were the Highest in the country.

The ones that the residents still object to were to cross the southern part of the estuary. The main issue was that the esb had bought the materials for the pylons before seeking permission to erect them and done everything in their power to railroad the planning process.

Also in relation to Fort Davis(Carlisle) it is still in use by the Defence forces for training. It is far from derelict. However Fort Camden was passed from the DoD to the OPW in 1989. Little was done by them since then apart from erecting a Gate. There is still an elderly family housed there(in DoD housing). I can only assume that as the DoD no longer provide housing to members of the Defence Forces, this fammily will have to remain there till the end of their days. In the meantime the fort is used by a wide range of couples for activities that under current legislation is permissible only by consenting adults…
That and breaking whatever glass still remains..

Kilworth Camp is also in full time use by the Defence forces, not just the recently disbanded FCA. The site earmarked for the proposed prison is between Corbett court and the Camp gates. The firing range is nowhere near this site. The proposed development of the M8 to the west of the current N8 will mean the Camp(and prison) will no longer be divided by the main cork Dublin road and will allow the occupants to make better use of the other side of the road(have you ever tried to get 100+pedestrians accross the main cork-dublin road in the shortest possible time??). Its use by the DF will expand as nimbyism grabs hold of the other primary DF training area in Wicklow, the Glen of Imaal.

Interesting programme on Spike Island last night, ‘Oil

@phatman wrote:

Interesting programme on Spike Island last night, ‘Oiléan’ on RTE 1, 7.30. Just caught some of it, but really impressive to see some of those buildings on tv. Maybe it will be repeated at some stage…

It was indeed, but taken some time back…. there was a shot of the unmarked graves which had an ornate
gate at entrance….. this has since gone missing…….. hope some decision is made soon before anything else goes missing..

@Praxiteles wrote:

Mr Ronan is principal of Enfer Scientific Ltd in Co Kildare

With enfer being French for hell, it’s not a word you want associated with a crematorium 😀

@jungle wrote:

With enfer being French for hell, it’s not a word you want associated with a crematorium 😀

He’s also a hide and skin merchant….;)
KB2

@jungle wrote:

With enfer being French for hell, it’s not a word you want associated with a crematorium 😀

Touché !!

1st photo courtesy of the THE_Chris from 2003

Spot the Ringaskiddy skyline difference to 2006…..

Makes a joke of the planning guidelines we hear about…maintaining the skyline my eye…

From this morning’s quondam Cork Examiner:

29 January 2007

Three firms vie for Whitegate Oil

By Sean McSaibhris
THREE companies have emerged as possible buyers for the Cork-based Whitegate Oil Refinery, the sale of which was announced by its owner Conoco- Philips last week.

The European oil business, Petroplus Holdings — which is listed on the Swiss stock exchange and owns oil refineries in Switzerland, Belgium and England — is understood to be the favourite to take over the ownership and running of Whitegate, which is being valued at between €300 million and €380m.

Canadian company, Irving Oil has also been mentioned as a potential bidder — the company has, apparently, considered the possibility of buying the Cork operation on a number of occasions over the last decade.

The other name in the frame is that of Topaz, the company which now owns both the Shell and Statoil businesses in Ireland. Irving was also, reportedly, one of the bidders for the Statoil operations here, so could be keen on buying in Ireland still. Topaz’s network ownership here — through Shell and Statoil — means that it could end up buying the majority of oil produced by the Whitegate refinery.

Petroplus is keen to expand its European oil refinery assets and in its chief executive Thomas D O’Malley, the Irish-American businessman, has an individual who knows all about Whitegate.

He was head of Tosco-Philips (which later merged with Conoco) in 2001 when the Government sold Whitegate and the Whiddy Oil Terminal, on behalf of the Irish National Petroleum Company, to the American company for €117m. Petroplus is believed to have already held informal negotiations with Conoco-Philips with regard to Whitegate and is understood to be preparing a bid for the business.

The company, which employs around 1,100 people, floated in Switzerland last month, raising more than $2.4 billion (€1.84bn) in the process. Management wants to double the size of the business within the next three years, so is extremely keen to grow via acquisition in the short term.

Whitegate’s foreseeable future is secure whatever the outcome. The refinery is capable of producing more than 70,000 barrels of oil per day and made an operating profit of $47m in 2005 on a turnover of $1.7bn.

As part of any takeover deal, it must remain operational as a fully commercial entity for at least 15 years, which means any new owner could not close it down.

Conoco-Philips gave no reason, last week as to why it wishes to sell Whitegate — which supplies to Ireland and numerous European markets. It does, however, intend to keep ownership of the Whiddy Oil Terminal in Bantry Bay.

From this morning’s quondam ork Examiner:

10 February 2007

From prison fortress to island of dreams

NOW that Justice Minister Michael McDowell has turned his sights to Kilworth army camp for his new prison, Spike Island is ripe for some use of more benefit to Cork Harbour tourism and the people of the area.

Perhaps Mr McDowell could get together with his colleague Micheál Martin and consider an integrated development for Haulbowline and Spike to include Mr Martin’s ambitious plans for residential, commercial and tourism development on Haulbowline and the heritage park that is Spike Island.

Inhabited since at least the 7th century, site of an early Christian church and home to a well-preserved 18th century star-shaped fort, Spike is a beautiful, relatively unspoilt island ideal as a centre for presenting the heritage of the harbour area to residents and visitors alike. With so much heritage already in place there, we just need to open the doors and invite people in.

No major strain on the taxpayers’ purse would be required.

Norcott Roberts

Sydenham Cottage

Monkstown

Co Cork.

As long as they dont make it Rushbrooke II for estates 😉

@samuel j wrote:

Makes a joke of the planning guidelines we hear about…maintaining the skyline my eye…

I dont get the joke, Sam.

The site has been zoned for the past 30 years and millions of public money have been spent on providing infrastructure for a large scale industrial development at this location. Did you honestly believe it would never be developed?

It has indeed, this site and many sites in that area, including the future Port of Cork. I’ve no problem with this industrial zoned area, we badly need industry ……

No my point is the actual height of this structure, which from many angles exceeds the skyline. Perhaps I am wrong does not skyline interference not come into most areas applications.

Yes we need industry and of course this and many more sites will be developed but why go skywards on an already elevated site when surrounding land is not exactly tight….

You try put a windfarm on such a site or TV/Aerials and you would be told 101 skylines yarns and negative thpughts

I just don’t understand why industrial sites seem to be exempt from such height rules or considerations when you/I could not build anything that interferes with the skyline.

Maybe there is no need for such rules but why do they only apply to some of us and not all…

Interesting ten minute footage of Cork Harbour from a recent RTE Nationwide show. Topic concerns the history of Camden and Carlisle Forts, as well as Collins Barracks, Haulbowline and even Charlesfort. Some great footage and an interesting discussion. Interesting to note the sash windows are still in place in both Collins Barracks and Haulbowline!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0618/nationwide.html

To correct you again, the sash windows in Collins Barracks you see are PVC.

The only sash windows you see on Haulbowline are those in semi derilict buildings, and all of those on the three occupied, north facing stonehouses have been replaced with PVC type.

Howard Holdings Passage West plan now online at : http://www.pwtc.ie/

@Praxiteles wrote:

Chris!

As a small consolation, I came across this and thought you might be interested. The status quo ante: WIlliam Bartlett’s lithograph of Cove of Cork from c. 1840 showing Haulbowlin with Mrs. Deane’s provisioning buildings, Spike, I think, and charming party somewhere above Westbeach:

Breaking news. The middle building of the three on the right in this lithographis right now going up in flames. It started a few hours ago and is still burning.

Yes indeed, many fire engines now in attendance and tug Gerry O’Sullivan using her pumps to try from sea.
The wind not helping and due to get strong over next hour before some drop.
Thoughts go to all those out there tonight fighting the fire and hope all will be safe and they have some success in saving these magnificent buildings.

It’s not pretty, but it’s not as bad as some reports had made me fear

Apparently this building had just been renovated. I did hear on the radio today talk of restoration. Thanks be to God. 🙂

Partly was GZ I gather.
Very lucky the wind was in direction it was and the large fuel tanks for the Navy were upwind.
Think the tug Gerry O’Sullivan did a great job, giving a large overall spray to the other buildings downwind as all these were thankfully saved.
great job by all services for keeping it to th one building.

Lets just hope that funds become available to restore it to its former glory

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5E_ARr3OQ

Roof and floors gone but lets hope funds can be found to restore it .

So it seems there may be more toxic substances on Haulbowline than initially thought….

Or so the Minister for green things is saying.

Those involved in the cleanup disagree with his account of things though.

It seems the green method for disposing of toxic waste is to cap it, and hope it goes away of its own accord.

From RTE

Spike Island to become tourist attraction
Tuesday, 28 July 2009 11:01
“The Government has agreed to hand over control of Spike Island to Cork County Council.

The council has plans for a tourist attraction to be opened on the site of the former Fort Mitchel prison.

A statement from the Department of Justice confirmed that negotiations will now take place between it and the council to bring about the necessary transfer of ownership.

AdvertisementMaking the announcement, Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin said: ‘I believe that it is important to unlock any tourism potential of the island to the immediate benefit of the Cork and Munster region generally.

‘I would like to thank all those involved in Cork County Council for their willingness to actively explore the tourism potential of the island.’

Fort Mitchel was handed over to the Department of Justice by the Department of Defence in 1985.

It had a maximum capacity for 102 prisoners until its closure in 2004.

It was first used as a place of confinement in the 17th century following the end of the Cromwellian wars when it was used to hold prisoners to be transported to the West Indies and Australia. “

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0728/spikeisland.html

This is great news, for Cork harbour and Cork in general. Hopefully the council can actually pull this all together, they were handed control of Fort Camden in the 80s with a view to establishing a military museum there and it has gone completely ignored. I was there recently, it is also still in relatively good condition, just overgrown really. There could be huge tourism potential between the two forts, Crosshaven, Cobh, the city, and wasn’t Michael martin harping on about building some hotel, conference centre place on Haulbowline are year or two ago? (before the whole pollution thing there anyway). Some decent ferry services could really bring the harbour area to life. However, could be 10, 20 years who knows!