Auctioneers!!! selling land as development sites buyer beware

Are these sites along the section of former N2 that was recently bypassed?

Whenever one watches Crimeline one often hears a Garda say ‘if looks to good to be true it usually is’

It never ceases to amaze me how niave people can be with the biggest investment decision of their lives

Sounds like a good story for any of our journalist-posters

Madness! I have lost all faith in Auctioneers.. i’m currently tied up in a mess.. Auctioneer had the house up for sale on the word of the seller having clearance to sell it and we’re all still waiting for the details to surface! I can’t bid on other house as im tied up in this.

In another situation a simple 2 phone calls asking details about a property increased the bids by 15 grand for the other party interested.. I simply wanted to know the details and the auctioneer used it to frighten the wits out of the other interested party..

@beolight wrote:

just wondering whether anyone else has come across this very sharp practiseand whether or not they have had any similiar experiences

recently 3 or 4 sites in the meath area have been advertised as potential one off housing sites, essentially agricultural land withroad frontage but heres the crux the auctioneer refuses to sell subject to planning but still insists that the value of these fields are in the region of 100k per acre rather than going rate for agri land 15/20k so the farmer is essentially in a win win situation

every one of these sites that i have done quick searches on in planning office have turned out to be complete non runners with a litany of previous failed applications/sterlisation agreements/poor sightlines etc etc but yet i drive by them a few weeks later and i see sale agreed on the signs

the latest one that has prompted this post is one stating that the site has excellent roadfrontage onto the N2, now a lot of people may not be aware of recent guidelines issued in relation to developments on national primary routes but i am sure that the auctioneer is well aware of this but when i rang enquiring about the site i was simply told that if your from the area you willget planning, as an aside i then asked the auctioneeer whether the site had any previous planning history and he tells me no

a few phone calls later i find out who owns the site a quick internet search on meath countycouncil reveals 3 previous applications all rejected over a period of 10 years another phone call to the planner for the area and i find out that an bord pleanala had turned down the second application

but what about the poor person who doesnt do their homework and goes ahead with these purchases??

We live in a market economy. These auctioneers are not just selling land they are selling HOPE. If the price of land is 20k per acre and the price of hope is 80k, then the site really is worth 100k per acre. This practice is entirely honourable and professional as it is specifically targeted at hopeless people.

Serius there was a very good article in the Irish Property Valuer in December 2004 entitled ‘Faith Hope and Charity’ it analysed how builders had placed faith in a number of unzoned lands in the hope that the development plan would revise the zoning and how various local authorities apportioned re-zoning charity.

As the transactions were purely commercial in nature I for one had no issue with either the practice or the article as all parties knew the risks and theoretically could take the losses if the re-zoning failed to materialise.

However it has been evidenced in previous threads on this subject that many auctioneers are wilfully mis-selling ‘development potential’ when it is patently obvious that no planning would ever be forthcoming.

The government need to pass legislation to stamp out this practice and I think that regulations need to be passed making it manditory that a buyers planning history information pack should be attached to all land transactions under 5 acres setting out all previous planning applications within 1 kilometere over the past 5 years.

@Thomond Park wrote:

However it has been evidenced in previous threads on this subject that many auctioneers are wilfully mis-selling ‘development potential’ when it is patently obvious that no planning would ever be forthcoming.

The government need to pass legislation to stamp out this practice and I think that regulations need to be passed making it manditory that a buyers planning history information pack should be attached to all land transactions under 5 acres setting out all previous planning applications within 1 kilometere over the past 5 years.

Very sensible suggestion, one for the new regulator perhaps

@Thomond Park wrote:

Serius there was a very good article in the Irish Property Valuer in December 2004 entitled ‘Faith Hope and Charity’ it analysed how builders had placed faith in a number of unzoned lands in the hope that the development plan would revise the zoning and how various local authorities apportioned re-zoning charity.

As the transactions were purely commercial in nature I for one had no issue with either the practice or the article as all parties knew the risks and theoretically could take the losses if the re-zoning failed to materialise.

However it has been evidenced in previous threads on this subject that many auctioneers are wilfully mis-selling ‘development potential’ when it is patently obvious that no planning would ever be forthcoming.

The government need to pass legislation to stamp out this practice and I think that regulations need to be passed making it manditory that a buyers planning history information pack should be attached to all land transactions under 5 acres setting out all previous planning applications within 1 kilometere over the past 5 years.

We have inherited an adversarial legal and planning system based on British common law. Many continental countries have a more rational system based on the Napoleonic Code. Property transactions are overseen by an independent Notary who has the responsibility to ensure that the planning and legal status of the site is clearly established and understood by both sides.

The thousands of hard luck stories all around Ireland including many young families in mobile homes on plots they are paying mortgages on testify to the levels of scullduggery some auctioneers have got up to.

A solicitors role is not to assess on future planning prospects but merely to testify that there are no outstanding charges or encumberances on the folio; whilst a sterilisation will show up in such a search a planning refusal will not.

What scares me most is the degeneration of auctioneering from a profession based upon membership of IAVI / IAPV to the remax culture where agents must come up with unrealistic valuations to secure disposal instructions

i’ve looked into half a doze sites around cork. people are looking for 150-200k for 3 to 4 acres of unzoned and unzoneable land which they advertise as having A3 zoning. the planner i spoke to said she gets requests for opinions on these sites all the time, and when i check the palnning history there’s almost invariably a refusal or three.

problem i have is that it’s so easy to check all this out before handing over a penny. leaping and looking should only happen together in the right order.

@sw101 wrote:

i’ve looked into half a doze sites around cork. people are looking for 150-200k for 3 to 4 acres of unzoned and unzoneable land which they advertise as having A3 zoning. the planner i spoke to said she gets requests for opinions on these sites all the time, and when i check the palnning history there’s almost invariably a refusal or three.

problem i have is that it’s so easy to check all this out before handing over a penny. leaping and looking should only happen together in the right order.

A3 is an agricultural zone and not a low density residential one. While there appears to be provision for local housing need, that is something of a mirage. The way the policy is currently being applied is reminiscent of Joseph Heller’s “Catch-22”. You have to be living locally and be homeless at the same time.

The policy is deceptively simple. If you live outside the A3 zone you don’t qualify. If you already live within the A3 zone, but own you own house, you do not have a housing need. If your house is unfit or unsuitable for your requirements, you are disqualified for faking a housing need by not looking after your own house. In soccer terms that is the equivalent of “diving”.

Your best chance of planning permission is if you are still living with your parents within the A3 zone. You may be required to sterilise the remainder of the family holding so that your younger siblings cannot follow your precedent. Alternatively you may be required to sterilise your parents, if they are still in a child bearing cohort (as defined by the CSO) to avoid creating a precedent for siblings who have not yet been conceived.

Perhaps it would be better to stay within the jurisdiction of Cork City Council where the planners are humane beings and the rules of the game are administered by a referee of international standard, Ronnie McDowell, God bless him.

Don’t forget Sirius, that a further catch is that since the price of A3 land is so high, it is virtually impossible for a person to be in a position to buy a site and build a house, and not already have a house bought somewhere else.
(Though they can always fib…)

@Sirius wrote:

Your best chance of planning permission is if you are still living with your parents within the A3 zone.

But how else would you define local need other than actually working the holding?

@Thomond Park wrote:

But how else would you define local need other than actually working the holding?

A lot of families living in rural areas are no longer directly involved in agriculture.

There are balanced policies such as those in Fingal and Cork which allow one sibling to build a house on family holdings of sufficient size subject to the applicant being locally employed and complying with proper planning considerations.

What is your view of occupancy conditions and proper vetting of applicants?

Perhaps it would be better to stay within the jurisdiction of Cork City Council where the planners are humane beings and the rules of the game are administered by a referee of international standard, Ronnie McDowell, God bless him.[/QUOTE]

Ronnie “Victoria Mills” McDowell gets the “Best in Show” for his outstanding “solo run” at Victoria Cross.

@Bourgeoise wrote:

Perhaps it would be better to stay within the jurisdiction of Cork City Council where the planners are humane beings and the rules of the game are administered by a referee of international standard, Ronnie McDowell, God bless him.

Ronnie “Victoria Mills” McDowell gets the “Best in Show” for his outstanding “solo run” at Victoria Cross.[/QUOTE]

😮
Aided and abetted by the “still” city manager, Mr. Joe Gavin, and the Director of Planning, Mr. Jim O’Donovan “now departed”