Any news on the Ormond Hotel?

Hate to resurrect an old thread, but been searching for news on this and didn’t find much. Anyone know what is going on here?

The Ormonde Hotel is finished is it not?

@arachide wrote:

Any news on the Ormond Hotel?

The good news is permission for its demolition has expired (it was granted permission on appeal in September 2004 and so expired five years later – last September – thus avoiding the new, CIF-prompted rule where developers can extend permissions without reapplying, which came into force this January). Appeal Ref. is PL29N.207208. The bad news is, well, I don’t have to tell you what the bad news is.

Here is a picture of part of it in the early noughties when it was nicely painted and had timber sash windows and was open as hotel …… before the owner tastelessly painted it white, filled it with PVC windows, got permission for its demolition, closed it up and basically let it sit there like a piece of shit.

@Devin wrote:

The good news is permission for its demolition has expired (it was granted permission on appeal in September 2004 and so expired five years later – last September – thus avoiding the new, CIF-prompted rule where developers can extend permissions without reapplying, which came into force this January). Appeal Ref. is PL29N.207208. The bad news is, well, I don’t have to tell you what the bad news is.

Here is a picture of part of it in the early noughties when it was nicely painted and had timber sash windows and was open as hotel …… before the owner tastelessly painted it white, filled it with PVC windows, got permission for its demolition, closed it up and basically let it sit there like a piece of shit.

I don’t really see how it’s good news that the permission has expired. No-one will reopen it as a hotel as it is. it might be good for a refurb and major extension but nothing will happen without another major planning application, AFT objection and appeal, ABP prevarication, another ABP grant with conditions. Unless NAMA do something or someone buys it the current owner is not in a position to do anything so it will continue to sit there “like a piece of shit” until it falls down anyway. It sits as a rotten tooth in the mouth of the hippopotamus of bureaucrazy (sic)

Apparently with refurbishment it can have 160 rooms which isn’t too bad. The hotel itself is apparently for sale at the moment for €7million (and it didn’t sell, so it could probably be had for less).
I’d like to see it done up rather than demolished personally.

@OisinT wrote:

Apparently with refurbishment it can have 160 rooms which isn’t too bad. The hotel itself is apparently for sale at the moment for €7million (and it didn’t sell, so it could probably be had for less).
I’d like to see it done up rather than demolished personally.

not sure where you get that from – the original hotel had 64 shabby, non-Bord F standard rooms and wasn’t viable as a hotel in the longterm. The 160 room option was knock and replace. The article below stated 120 with refurb and extension

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/83647m-price-tag-on-the-former-ormond-hotel-1767662.html

Interestingly BM had it up for sale for €11m in 2008. Bet he wished he’d taken that now….

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2008/jul/20/mcgettigan-tipped-to-buy-ormond-hotel-in-dublin/

also discussed here

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3440&highlight=farewell+ormond+hotel

@wearnicehats wrote:

not sure where you get that from – the original hotel had 64 shabby, non-Bord F standard rooms and wasn’t viable as a hotel in the longterm. The 160 room option was knock and replace. The article below stated 120 with refurb and extension

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/83647m-price-tag-on-the-former-ormond-hotel-1767662.html

Interestingly BM had it up for sale for €11m in 2008. Bet he wished he’d taken that now….

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2008/jul/20/mcgettigan-tipped-to-buy-ormond-hotel-in-dublin/

also discussed here

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3440&highlight=farewell+ormond+hotel

Still a 120 with refurb and extension isn’t so much different really. Better than a knock and replace option imo.
I believe that is more than the Morrison down the road.

@OisinT wrote:

Still a 120 with refurb and extension isn’t so much different really. Better than a knock and replace option imo.
I believe that is more than the Morrison down the road.

given the size of the existing hotel on the site (use google earth to compare the site with that of the morrison) there’s no way they could bring the existing rooms up to scratch and double the size of the building without going higher than the existing facade. I’m no fan of the scheme that was out there up until 2009 but, if they go down this route it with be an exercise in token stick-on-the-existing-facadism which does less to merit the quays that a knock-job. If you consider that, in reality, there’s also no way that a viable commercial development could be contained within the height profile of the existing hotel then it’s inevitably going to attract a proposal that is going to ABP (if the hotel can stand up that long)

McNamara had bought in other buildings in and around the hotel to facilitate expansion IIRC

yeah he owns a chunk of the property there. Isnt his own office behind it off Capel Street.

in order to make a profit on a commercial venture the returns yielded by the redevelopment of a site have to exceed the cost to redevelop it. granny suck eggs I hear you cry but if you need to tie in a lot of additional sites / buildings from separate deals then the profitablity returns ratio gets effected. If a developer has to tie in other sites that are, in effect, washing their own faces financially, then the overall end picture needs to offer a substantially better yield than the development of the original single site. That’s why developers who accumulate sites tend to build retail or office developments; there simply wouldn’t be the return on a large scale hotel development on Ormond Quay

From Archiseek’s facebook page

I am looking for debate and support in regard to saving the facade of the Ormond Hotel in Dublin. I saw a forum that was running way back in 2005 /6 when contributors were deploring the changes to the streetscape and commending the historical and cultural worth of the site of Joyce’s siren chapter. Are there any such protests now over the current planning application? along with any support for retaining the facade and having it protected?
I am a resident concerned about the changes and the loss of a significant part of Dublin’s Literary Heritage. What an embarrassment when Dublin has recently been named an EU city of literature…
My friends and I are keen readers of Joyce’s work and are hoping to hear from you that such people as J Seerski are still fighting for the life and fabric of the Ormond facade.
Judy Boreham

He’s with O’Leary in the grave…

I really find it laughable how all these bleeding hearts are suddenly concerned with a building that should have been on the derelict register about 3 years ago. All because of some obscure reference of some indecipherable 100 year old book that people have on their bookshelves to try and make them look arty. I don’t recall mass mourning when it was given permission to be demolished 8 years ago – too busy talking about house prices rather than Ulysses.

I hope these people tie it up in planning for 2 years or so and hopefully by then it will be a pile of rubble that we can sweep up and get on with moving into the 19th Century

I see the scaffolding going up. Also by looking at the DCC websiite it looks like the facade at least is to be kept.

@aj wrote:

I see the scaffolding going up. Also by looking at the DCC websiite it looks like the facade at least is to be kept.

I see some of the render has been striped to to the brick which looks in surrpisingly good condition. Interestingly one half of the building appears to be a cut stoneface under all that yellow render

’tis dead

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/243103.htm

this should now allow the building to quietly fall down around us. Well done Joyceans

Well done Joyceans? Did you read the decision?

It has nothing to do with value judgements on the significance of the existing building, and everything to do with the mediocrity of the proposed building.

Hilarious how some architects can shift the deck chairs when it suits them.

For once, DCC and ABP have united against a development that just didn’t step up to the civic design standards demanded for Dublin’s quays.

I’ve no doubt that all the hoohay caused by the likes of Mannix Flynn helped shift that decision

Anyway – how apt that we are writing about this exactly 365 days since the application was lodged. Given that Mr QPR will probably now just try to recoup some of his paltry €2m outlay and move on somewhere else we can now only hope that the current hotel manages to stay standing until somebody else trudges through the design and planning process – although I doubt very much it will survive another 2 years.

In the meantime we can all continue to admire it for the outstanding contribution it makes to the visual impact of the quays

Am torn on the Ormond, as its probably only the facade thats worth saving, and even then a building that reflects and respects the heights and rhythm of the quays could do a better job.