yucky houses

Every generation hates the style of new housing stock. Posterity forms a fondness for it from nostalgia for the grandparents and later conservationists stop people knocking them down. The style is 21st century Irish rural vernacular housing, or one-off rural housing.

McMansion is another phrase thrown about too!
I don’t think 21st century Irish rural vernacular housing, or one-off rural housing are correct because that suggests that all one-offs are “yucky houses”. Which they aren’t,

but (in your opinions) why the fasination with the neoclassical type style on these houses?? Is it simply that people associate grandeur and class with this style.??:confused:

There’s nothing new here. People have been sticking pediments and pillars on their buildings since the renaissance. Banks and large public buildings use classical allusions to create an image of permanence and grandeur. They are decorative and show that the owner’s budget stretched beyond the purely functional.

I think Frank McDonald coined the term ‘Pallazi Gombeeni’ (he could probably spell it as well?)

I know it’s pejorative – but I consider it apt.

The classical style from the 18/19th Century at least has the advantage of a fairly consistent pattern book – an agreed standard of ‘taste’. And now we have come to admire that style in general terms, both in the big and small houses of the period.

The problem today is that there is no such pattern book. The classical big houses are being bought and enlarged to cater for swimming pools and 7 car garages (I think 7 is the current mark ?), whereas those who only have 1 or 3 million build the multi-windowed/pillared Pallatzi (pool room essential).

We are unfortunate that we have no substantial vernacular to adapt and because we (and our political representatives) have an inherent knee jerk reaction to being told what is (and is not) tasteful.

I blame architects meself.

I supose your right, the classical has always featured in different architectural styles. But these houses seem to have none of the proportion, I mean they are large but there probably made up of 20 smaller rooms rather than say 4 big spaces. Every one living in the house probably has there own seperate bedroom and bathroom.
I dont know I’m just trying to understand the phenomenom, What drives people to want one of these houses. I mean these mcmansions are a fairly recent thing,ok they display a persons wealth but why cant the people who build them see that they are not aesthetic in any way, that they are wastefull and silly looking. (then again maybe in 20 years I’ll have a sentimental view towards them!!) Is it a lack of education?? Visual education??Or lack of common sense??I really want to know why??
Do you think these buildings will eventually be turned into apartments, I mean they are surely big enough to house 2 or 3 familys.

I supose some of the responsibility does lie with architects, I mean they shouldn’t just design to the whims of their clients, who want big birthday cake houses!!

oh ya and the pattern book of today would be those books of ready drawn plans full of dormer bungalows that you can buy, ready planed house ready to be plonked onto a site.

Lots of people dream of building a big house if they had the money. Lots of people have money. QED

You’re saying they look silly and wasetful. I doubt your grandchildren will say that. They are just houses built by the common man.

It is possible to build a big house that fits into it’s surroundings or adds something through it’s proportion and elegance. Unfortunately the vast vast majority of the houses in question detract from their environments through graceless, clumsy planning and detailing. It is not enough to justify this by saying that if people can afford to build monstrosities they should be allowed to continue building them.
I’d like to think that people in the future will see them for what they are – ugly, inappropriate blots on the landscape – and will do their best to get rid of them.

Bad ones will be x-listed or knocked down by future owners. Others will presumably be hidden by trees from view. Much of Ireland may be forested in the future as agriculture changes.

‘Pallazi Gombeeni’ hahahaha …….have’nt heard that before, pejorative yes but bloody brilliant!

wait a minute though publicrealm, was’nt there postings a few days back from some cheerful technician type chaps that said you don’t need architects at all and we have an over inflated view of our own worth………., we can’t be to blame for this stuff too?

@alan d wrote:

‘Pallazi Gombeeni’ hahahaha …….have’nt heard that before, pejorative yes but bloody brilliant!

wait a minute though publicrealm, was’nt there postings a few days back from some cheerful technician type chaps that said you don’t need architects at all and we have an over inflated view of our own worth………., we can’t be to blame for this stuff too?

Well it must be the artichokes coz it couldn’t possibly be the Planners! 😀

Try these ones for size…at Buttevant, Co. Cork

@Praxiteles wrote:

Try these ones for size…at Buttevant, Co. Cork

are they fully finished,
the windows are appalling

i do believe Munster joinery had a hand in this, but overall what do you think of the proportioning if you ignore the materials and detailing?? Are they not different, refreshing and certainly an alternative to the usual developer sprawl?

@TJ wrote:

i do believe Munster joinery had a hand in this, but overall what do you think of the proportioning if you ignore the materials and detailing?? Are they not different, refreshing and certainly an alternative to the usual developer sprawl?

Do not be talking nonsense man. They are actually worse when you see them in the flesh, and with a couple of hundred of them all cramped on to a small site there is not anything very refreshing about them – in fact, all you are dealing with is dull repitition. Indeed, it is a lovely example of developer sprawl.

@Bren88 wrote:

are they fully finished,
the windows are appalling

Yah! Finished and ready to go at around Euro 250,000

@Praxiteles wrote:

Do not be talking nonsense man. They are actually worse when you see them in the flesh, and with a couple of hundred of them all cramped on to a small site there is not anything very refreshing about them – in fact, all you are dealing with is dull repitition. Indeed, it is a lovely example of developer sprawl.

Please go on……. refer us to a more suitable development of medium to high density housing in a rural town or village which has been developer led! are we not all fed up with the frills and detailing of the usual suburbia
i have done a bit of research on this development since my last posting – approx 120 houses about 6 house types with 3bed townhouses going for about 210 000 euro and what would appear to be a short walk to the village centre:confused:

@TJ wrote:

Please go on……. refer us to a more suitable development of medium to high density housing in a rural town or village which has been developer led! are we not all fed up with the frills and detailing of the usual suburbia
i have done a bit of research on this development since my last posting – approx 120 houses about 6 house types with 3bed townhouses going for about 210 000 euro and what would appear to be a short walk to the village centre:confused:

Nearby Churchtown is another example of transplanted suburbia which has ruined what was a very nice village. Develpments all crammed together at one end in a relatively small area completely dominating the village.
Re Buttevant development, I shall try to get a photograph of the overall situation. Situated on the western approach to the market town, the houses you mention are not a plesant sight and their attempt at ruticity or vernacular idiom is not too successful.

Don’t know the overall development in Buttevant, Co. Cork but looking at the house photos it is clear that there was an intent to reflect the rural vernacular in the house designs. It’s not all that successful; the insistance on using the traditional small window types while scaling up the overall dwelling ignores the inherent proportion that was present in the standard irish cottage. Development pressures have lead to a deep plan now being the accepted layout for these type of houses and i’ve yet to see a development that has resolved the fact that the narrow plan was a set feature in the rural vernacular – to simply scale this up leads to a vastly over scaled and out of proportion building. The issue of adding 100+ dwellings to an existing village structure is a difficult one, blame the planners who allow it? blame the developers who propose it? blame the people who wan’t to live in ‘a village’ and create the massive demand? The fact is that our new vernacular is sprawling semi-d’s.

By the way, i’m amazed at the adverse reaction to these houses in Buttevant. It may be poor enough but at least it’s an attempt. It isn’t a look-a-like development seen on the edge of every town and village in the country. I’ve not seen any thing like it before anyway. If you want to see some shite heres’ some………..

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4805

http://www.propertypartners.ie/property_detail.pp?propid=23735&compid=149

Here is another photograph of the Ard an Bhaile development at Buttevant, Co. Cork,

http://www.daft.ie/cork/buttevant/131989/

These, BTW, are the fronts of the houses and not teh backs.

The wide lense, however, gives an impression of greater open space than there actually is. The whole development is very crammed – clearly the idea was to get as much onto the site as was physically possible- and it is difficult to avoid the impression that it is transplanted suburbia’s transposition of the battery range for pounltry.

I do not know what modification have been made to the infrastructure in the Buttevant area to accomodate another couple of hunmdred houses. The main Limerick/Cork road around the town is a disaster to begin with; and I would be too sure that the water annd sewerage facilities are entirely up to it either; schools etc.?

Another example fo the disaster brought to small towns by large-scale developments if Rathcormack, Co. Cork.

From what I can see, Buttevant is not a village at all but a small town of significant historical interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttevant

It would seem to me that planking a swell of pastiche “vernacular” i.e. Kerry-bog (pace Archiseek user), type houses into a historic setting such as this makes the development even more out of place than first meets the eye. The use of an Irish name in what is clearly not a gaeltacht but a Cambro-French- Norman settlement is further illustration of the “sensitivity” of the developers to the place.

Here are some more views of those houses available in Buttevant, Co. Cork

The first shows the houses closest to the road: I hope they never devise plans to widen the road.

The secon shot shows the first inner skin: Note the space between the houses.

The third shows a single house , again, on the road.

In fairness whoever developed them may have thought he was designing something different – varied roof heights, set backs and ‘different’ windows.

At least its not like the rest of the tickytacky detritus that passes for architecture – and the exterior finish looks better than standard?.

Sadly however, it doesn’t work in my view – the windows look as if they were a job lot and the houses built around them – and not a single tree or shrub?

I would be interested to read a design rationale from the architect (or designer). Are you out there – hellooo…

@publicrealm wrote:

In fairness whoever developed them may have thought he was designing something different – varied roof heights, set backs and ‘different’ windows.

At least its not like the rest of the tickytacky detritus that passes for architecture – and the exterior finish looks better than standard?.

Sadly however, it doesn’t work in my view – the windows look as if they were a job lot and the houses built around them – and not a single tree or shrub?

I would be interested to read a design rationale from the architect (or designer). Are you out there – hellooo…

I doubt very much that anyone will want to “own” this particular contribution to beautiful living. As they are, all crammed up on each other, they are probably likely to be destined for use as auxiliary accomodation for migrants, refugees and those seeking political asylum.

As for trees, where could you possibly put them? There is not enough space between the houses to sow grass seed let alone plant traees.

Those Buttervant houses look like something out of Legoland. And those lamp poles look like pins from outer space…cheap, dour, utilitarian, and alas they dot our urban landscape of housing estates. Maybe the dogs like them….

In fairness there is a lot worse out there than those butevant houses, they actually look rather good in comparison to some of the estates/houses being built. at least there not just overdecorated with crap on the facade just for the sake of it. They remind me of old council houses except there is a bit of variation in the window position.