ruining pubs
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McC: Great, but your boozy solution would take too much time and would never be completed ~ can it be done? And God only knows what Joyce meant us to think!
has anyone seen the white horse? what an absolute kip!!!
many modern irish pubs are a disgrace and an insult to everything our ancestors fought against.
the all-sports bar in temple bar should have its licence revoked. its walls are adorned by the english national soccer jersey.
the owner should be locked up in the dungeon of kilmainham gaol…
to be continuedHow about issuing new licences to pubs under a certain square footage- that would do away with drinking barns
Exactly as you say Conor – the government (or rather courts) seem to have broken the monopoly and power of the TAXI lobby. How the TAXI men ever had a lobby is hard to credit as most TAXI men are ordinary Joe’s like the rest of us. The publicans (much more powerful) will I predict always be a law onto themselves to the ultimate detriment / destruction of the last of the genuine old Dublin pubs. It will take the courts (government have no will or desire) to save the remaining authentic Dublin boozers by breaking the publicans monopoly and total self interest which is destroying the last inner ring of authentic city pubs.
They are already eyeing up old pubs in the Liberties, Pimblico and surrounding streets i.e. The once majestic little bar of Rodgers of Thomas St gone and its licence now operates Vicar St (a fine and another welcome contemporary venue in Dublin 8) but alas Rodgers had to go solely for its licence (not its site) as Vicar St is built on the opposite corner. The Robert Emmet (adjacent to Catherine’s Church where Emmet was hung now revamped, Berlin-ised / destroyed and called Handel’s – how Dublin Indeed !! what next ?? plenty more phoneys and fakes on the way as the Celtic Cubs over spill out of Temple Bar and up to rejuvenate the great “e district†that is planned for the back of “The Pipesâ€/ Guinness’s. The publican vultures must be licking their lips and are already planning to play their part in the rejuvenation of the Liberties.
The current façade whereby the publican builds a fake Irish pub within / adjacent to his main pub is the greatest joke yet i.e. beside the lounge of the Mercantile in Dame St one sees I think it’s called O’Reillys or Maloneys – now he has two pubs for one licence, pity the tourists or anybody else who falls for this total con.
Time is fast ticking away for the last of the old Dublin pubs within the inner ring (between the two canals)- unless the pub licence monopoly is broken – little hope, the publicans will always will have the ear and tail of the government and the indifference of the young drinker who is happy to pile in pose and be facilitated in a “cool operating theatre†with a drink by big business. But the young boozer / resident of the hip inner city of today will seek the genuine article tomorrow and it will for certain be no more.
Exactly as you say Conor – the government (or rather courts) seem to have broken the monopoly and power of the TAXI lobby. How the TAXI men ever had a lobby is hard to credit as most TAXI men are ordinary Joe’s like the rest of us. The publicans (much more powerful) will I predict always be a law onto themselves to the ultimate detriment / destruction of the last of the genuine old Dublin pubs. It will take the courts (government have no will or desire) to save the remaining authentic Dublin boozers by breaking the publicans monopoly and total self interest which is destroying the last inner ring of authentic city pubs.
They are already eyeing up old pubs (only as a licence to knock and plan amphitheatres) in the Liberties, Pimblico and surrounding streets i.e. The once majestic little bar of Rodgers of Thomas St gone and its licence now operates Vicar St (a fine and another welcome contemporary venue in Dublin 8) but alas Rodgers had to go solely for its licence (not its site) as Vicar St is built on the opposite corner. The Robert Emmet (adjacent to Catherine’s Church where Emmet was hung now revamped, Berlin-ised / destroyed and called Handel’s – how Dublin Indeed !! what next ?? plenty more phoneys and fakes on the way as the Celtic Cubs over spill out of Temple Bar and up to rejuvenate the great “e district†that is planned for the back of “The Pipesâ€/ Guinness’s. The publican vultures must be licking their lips and are already planning to play their part in the “rejuvenation†(exploitation) of the Liberties.
The current façade whereby the publican builds a fake Irish pub within / adjacent to his main pub is the greatest joke yet i.e. beside the lounge of the Mercantile in Dame St one sees I think it’s called O’Reillys or Maloneys – now he has two pubs for one licence, pity the tourists or anybody else who falls for this total con.
Time is fast ticking away for the last of the old Dublin pubs within the inner ring (between the two canals) – unless the pub licence monopoly is broken – little hope, the publicans will always will have the ear and tail of the government and the indifference of the young drinker who is happy to pile in, pose and be facilitated in a “cool operating theatre†with a drink by big business. But the young boozer / resident of the hip inner city of today will seek the genuine article tomorrow and it will for certain be no more. Future Dubs will have to visit the Crown in Belfast (owned and run by the British National Trust) i.e. a Belfast icon and protected heritage building to have an inclination of how it once was in some Dublin pubs.
The Mercantile now has three pubs for the price of one. The original, O’Briens next door and now they’ve opened up another modern place next door. There must be some legislation to stop this – it appears that all you have to do is leave the doors between them open.
Also on the subject of Hanlon’s on the NCR. The mosaic on the floor is an absolute masterpieces, one of the finest I’ve ever seen in this country. It’s absolutely priceless and the Guinness there makes it worth the trip.
re. minimalist designer bars vs fake-old paddywhackery oirish pubs as solutions for new bars
I believe neither is a solution though they may appeal to certain niches like the stylists or the tourist respectively.
Obviously paddywhackery is kitsch.
While I like many things about minimalism, I think it does not match the Irish spirit, which tends to be exuberant and earthy and prefers to exaggerate rather than subtract(remember Toraiocht Diarmuid agus Grainne)Is the problem not a lack of an Irish design language and identity? Every country that produces good design has an evolved design language or identity – the Italians, Swedes etc. They have not ignored their traditions but built on them.
What happens when you dont have an identity – you borrow someone elses to keep you going. I think we borrow international style into Ireland. We put in what have become known as designer-bars that have nothing to do with Irish culture, who we are or what we like to do. These designer-cool bars are put in by the Irish style police and have more to do with being ‘cool’ than with design in many cases.
This jump-starting of the design process is a sort of cheat and gives Ireland a veneer look of design without allowing its complex cultural design identity to develop and evolve. Its all in an effort to ‘compete on the European stage, to be a modern nation’ but it is just copyism. It probably comes from a history of being the under-dog and the under-dog often tries to be ‘as good as’ instead of being better than , tries to follow rather than trying to lead.Now we are nouveau-riche but money does not buy a culture, does not buy innovation so easily. This needs time and support to develop.
Design should not look like it came from a European style magazine but be its own, a good solution in its own context. It takes research and time. Part of this research involves taking stock of our traditions, not erasing them. While things must always move on, we must preserve certain physical markers of history as symbols of how we evolved into what we are.
The state of our drinking/social establishments is in a mess because we dont know what we want to communicate about ourselves through design, we dont have a design language. Since we Irish have become noveau-riche, it seems mnny of us have forgotten who we are, what we are.
Ah… an Irish pub…..too bad ‘a decent pint’ is becoming a thing of the past in most Dublin central city pubs, especially these newer trendy ones…..with all chrome, glass, pale beechwood and scantily clad young ladies…… all stylishly great…. but unfortunately a pint of flat dishwater is the order of the day, the stuff that will turn your stomach over and give you the scuts….plainly speaking. One has to frequent a crusty auld kip to get a decent pint. True!
and gregf thats probably what has most people who complain about the new pubs up in arms – the quality of the pint is at the end of the day the mopst important thing about a pub interior….
thats why i drink in walshes….
and aside – has anyone noticed how many of the older pubs like the brazen head have recently taken to cranking up the volumne on the stereo ….. impossible to enjoy a pint…
Lads – I think we’re getting old.
Actually got a reasonable pint of Guinness in the Capitol bar on Stephen’s street, and AKA in Wicklow street. I think the craft of pouring a pint is gone – plus the fact that Guinness are pushing Cold flow which tastes awful.
You get a good Guinness in the Gravity Bar all the same.
I resent pubs who only have cold flow.
also the “Quality” issue has a lot to do with the disappearance of the concept of serving your time(apprentice) to be replaced with the cheapest possible labour.Very true – for a graphic example of this go to the Harbourmaster in the IFSC. Very little English spoken by the staff and never the same people behind the bar two weeks running. Time was when pubs had unions (who trained up staff)and staff that took pride in what they did.
article on NPR Weekend edition last Sunday on irish pubs
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/wesun/20010527.wesun.17.rmmthe irish pub has become the equivalent export of the chinese restaurant – or cultural cartoon…there must be a factory in China that makes this crap for fitting out oirish pubs and chinese restaurants – but it is authentic shit, not fake shit
as we all know the chinese restaurant is not chinese and the oirish pub isn’t irish, it’s themed (cartoon) design…and by the way the entire world is going to be themed eventually
what the heck is authentic anyway? of its period, of its time? my favorite is the Crown in Belfast – nice scale, interesting stalls, not too big, looks to be late vicky, wait a minute it really is
Chic cafe bars are ruining our culture they our remamisent of tacky 1970s new york coctail bars and leave it to beavers fathers office
Dublin’s boozers are a dying species – latest one to be revamped and “modernised†and renamed after over a 100 years is the old Horse and Tram on the north quays now a so called trendy drinking trough called SPY !! – it’s criminal what’s happening. How long will The Flowing Tide last and retain even it’s 100 year old name?? Dublin’s pub heritage is rapidly being destroyed with full planning permission.
Pubs that have had a Dublin character since they were first built are being replaced – (and their customers scattered in search of a genuine boozer) – with permission from the Corpo. You can sit (if there’s a seat) and if your lucky chat if there is no constant “boom boom†in these new “Dublin†bars. You often have to stand in these theatres as the owners are reluctant to build in seating as leaning on a shelf sucking a bottle “is cool†and provides more floor space for transient punters.
These cool bars are as transient as their customers and will not last a decade. But too late for old pub heritage.I have nothing against new bars but they should and would be built from scratch if the pub licence cartel was broken. Give these “cool cats†drinking in these new bars another 10 years or so and they will be asking like tourists where can one find a good old Dublin boozer??
The remaining inner city bars i.e. Mulligan’s, Stag’s Head, Lord Edward etc. are now so cramped because those of us (and we are numerous) who like the genuine article, atmosphere and conviviality of the old boozers are being restricted to a decreasing number of pubs and have to seek out the few listed and protected ones.
What do people have against the new “cool chic cafe-bars.” I understand that the destruction of some older, traditional pubs in Dublin and everywhere else to make way for something completely different is worthy of concern. However, what type of establishments would people prefer to see being built from scratch? or in converted buildings, not previously pubs? Theme bars that create authentic Oirish atmospheres?
One new bar I really like is the one downstairs from the Gravity bar in the Guinness Storehouse…. very very nice pint… feels like a NY loft….
so where does one go for a martini rather than a pint?
a nomination for the worst bar in Dublin is the NASDAQ bar on Wexford Street, wandered in with some American guests while waiting for a table at Il Primo, tis a truly dreadful place
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