ruining pubs
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cannot leave well enough alone… kennedy’s of westland row is being done up.. saw a sneak preview last night… horrible fake ceiling beams etc…. they have removed the beautiful old terazzo bar, no doubt they will do it to the bar side now…
pity, it one one of the few interesting 20th century designed pubs in towm
As a constant frequenter of such drinking establishments I could’nt agree more.Many fine Dublin pubs with original bars, fixtures and fittings have been gutted only to be replaced with a poor pastiche. Anyone remember the notable Abbey Mooney on Abbey Street before it was taken over by the Irish Permanent, and remember too the Bailey,the Norseman, the Auld Dubliner,etc…etc….all quintessential aspects of Dublins old character gone. I am totally in favour of redevelopment but these are surely exceptions.
…..to add is’nt it ridiculous to see the original interiors gutted to be replaced with mock Tudor beams,makeshift tables and chairs deliberately aged, fake copper kettles and pots, fake stuffed grouse, fake old prints and photos, distressed woodwork and paintwork, mawkish and badly painted murals …etc….etc….What a sham! what a shame! It was okay when there was only the odd pub here and there with this sort of treatment,it was kind of a novelity, but it seems to be everywhere now. Check out the Bodhran Bar in the Forte Crest Hotel at Dublin Airport…. what a contradiction….a rather horrible plain red brick modern building containing an old world sham of a bar….but the tourists love it. As I always mention here, now and again, anyone remember the Irish House Pub which once stood at Wood Quay..now that was a theme pub.
For those that are interested my dissertation covered just this topic. Although I thouroughly agree with the spirit of the discussion I would warn against using terms such as ‘real’ and ‘fake’. If you are interested go to:
http://members.tripod.com/shane_clarke/Shane6.htmlWhat exactly is the quintessential Irish Bar?
Do you mean saw dust on the floor and barrels for tables. Thats not Irish, its embarassing. I agree with retaining some of the original bars, but not when there simply trumped up sheds. Many of the 20C bars are worth retaining, those of the art deco era etc.
However, people seem to have preconcieved ideas as to how a pub should be, dark, smelly and old. This is ludicrous. Some of the new Dublin bars are fine examples of how an ‘Irish pub’ can be. Maybe this new clean crisp image can be shipped around the world now as the authentic Irish bar.I agree that the dirty dingy totally unhygenic pubs have to go but obviously Mk you have seemed to have somewhat miss the point. What I am talking about is the gutting of essentially characteristically old Irish pubs,ie the removal of original fine Victorian woodwork,carvings, mouldings, terrazzo surfaces etc….However as I have already before made the point that the newer pubs with the exception of a few are conjuring up an image today of what a quintessential Irish bar did or should look like. And as I have said already many newer pubs are deliberately decorated to look old ie ever see the discolored look on the ceilings to give that smokey look ……as a project maybe visit a few more pubs and see if you can spot the original from the trumped up newer varities. Compare the Knightsbridge (Bachelors walk)to the Stag’s Head or The Long Hall (St.Great Georges Street)
RE:
“Maybe this new clean crisp image can be shipped around the world now as the authentic Irish bar.”
If you mean the nice frosted glass, beechwood and chrome look – that’s already all round britain. I don’t think we invented it!
The International Bar has a sewer of a toilet despite having beautiful woodwork etc. It’s a health hazard. Why we idiots [although I don’t go to pubs much anymore] put up with this shit [literally] is beyond me. I think those pubs are immune to health regulations because they’ve BEEN filthy since before the ’50’s or something.
JJ Smyth’s – another hole. I had to hold my breath before entering the Gents – I nearly aspixiated by the time I got out!
As for the ‘Irish Theme Pub’. Yes, I agree it’s ludicrous: Tearing out the eclectic mix of different trashy styles from over the last 2 centuries including all the 60’s and 70’s kitsch and then re-doing it in MDF [argghh] and polyfiller to look like a stage set in the abbey! The bar area of the Long Hall may be a miish-mash with it’s mirror tiles but at least it’s authentic! It evolved. A record of the establishment’s journey through the decades.
MK, your naievity displays perhaps your young age or your not a frequent pub goer.
An honest opinion does not indicate naivetivity.
John White, Id hoped the irony of the idea of “shipping’ the Irish bar around the world would strike you rather than the literal statement. The shipping of the Irish bar has been a source of embarrassment to Irish design for at least 15 years(an 80s craze that caught on with some sucess) Whenever Ive been to an Irish bar abroad (I usually steer a wide berth), I have always found them, to be corny dark & dirty. If people are going to insist on an Irish Bar in Bali, then at least let it have some inkling toward good design.The Chocolate Bar was one of Dublins first “trendy ‘pubs and has always had the cleanest toilets imaginable. I agree that some of the newer built pubs have dispicable hygene standards, thus suggesting a general disregard for its human occupants.
I know the Long Hall & The Stags Head well, beautiful & authentic Irish bars. Knightsbridge is a mini tasteless ye olde England, along with other terrible theme pubs, Zanzibar etc.
Some of the new pubs are worth mentioning also, The Life Bar, Gubu & the Morrison Hotel are 3 prime examples fo good design. Not all that is new is bad.
Scotus, try voice your opinion on this with some level of meaningfulness, it will help, I know!also, Mr. Behan, I agree with you entirely, these mock up olde eire pubs are the absolute bottom of the barrel (forgive the pun).
[This message has been edited by MK (edited 17 October 2000).]
Indeed, I agreed with all the contributers, they have taken the very words from my mouth, it was just that your own comments were quite vague at first but you have since clarified your point and I now understand you.
How to make an Irish pub
1. Get modern building
2. Fill with old rubbish and mock wood beams
3. Add foreign staff who can’t speak english, let alone take an order
4. Give the place a poxy “olde worde Irishe Name” like ‘MacTurcaills of Hoggen Green’ or something equally as bad
5. Play loads of chart hits very loud all night
6. Create Myth filled past about pub and its former owners a la Long stone and Messrs Maguireet viola An Irish Pub (please note Irish pub is a trademark, copyright 2000).
Seriously though these bars are a joke and give off the image of Paddywhackery that we have tried to get rid of.
It is unfortunate to note, that this Paddywackery is a source of pride for many. ‘The simple fun lovin’ Irish who dont give a damn about the state of their drinking houses, as long as there’s good craic’
These attitudes are the source of inspiraton for the themed Irish bar, & the incredibly low standards of some of the newer bars.However, it still must be admitted that some well designed bars are cropping up & these pubs should be appreciated rather than lumped with the rest.
RE:
“Maybe this new clean crisp image can be shipped around the world now as the authentic Irish bar.”
If you mean the nice frosted glass, beechwood and chrome look – that’s already all round britain. I don’t think we invented it!
As for the ‘Irish Theme Pub’. Yes, I agree it’s ludicrous: Tearing out the eclectic mix of different nice/trashy styles from over the last 2 centuries including all the 60’s and 70’s kitsch and then re-doing it in MDF [argghh] and polyfiller to look like a stage set in the abbey! The bar area of the Long Hall may be a hodge-podge with it’s mirror tiles etc but at least it’s real. It has evolved. A record of the establishment’s journey through the decades.
As for the filth in the old pubs:
The International Bar has a sewer of a toilet despite having beautiful woodwork etc. It’s a health hazard. Why we idiots [although I don’t go to pubs much anymore] literally put up with this shit is beyond me. I believe those pubs are immune to health regulations because they’ve been filthy SINCE BEFORE the ’50’s or something.I too don’t want to see the demise of the old pubs, Victorian, ’60s or otherwise but I reckon a lot of people think they’re just unhealthy kips.
JJ Smyth’s is another hole. I had to hold my breath before entering the Gents – I nearly asphixiated by the time I got out!
I agree, the themed pubs lark although on the surface is seen as a bit of ‘craic’ for the tourists but the underlying subtext is that us Paddies are a bunch of ravin’ alcholic lunatics….? It will be good to see if this will be an eternal industry or will it die or even evolve and change with the times to come? It depends on our wealth and drinking habits, I suppose. To add, although I totally agree with all the ‘points’ that have been made but is’nt it great to see the industry thriving, even expanding worldwide (no matter how tacky)……it would be very sad if the case was the very opposite. Just another point to make although I am in favour of new stylish pub designs for 2000AD, however, minimalism in such circumstances can be quite cold, lacking atmosphere.
isn’t minimalism all about abstension really?
does it in all honesty have a place in a drinking hole? personally most minimalist pubs give a licence for pretensiousness.That’s very true, minimalism in a way could be associated with puritanism……ie the iconoclasm and whitewashing of interior church walls by the Protestants of times past.
The minimalism of todays western world springs from the East. It has nothing much to do with puritanical Calvinism & more to do with Shinto & Eastern philosophy, the work of Tadao Ando etc, the play of light, the honesty of materials and their expression. Minimalism is, contrary to popular belief, very thoughtful and evocative of atmosphere, not the opposite
I agree…Minimalism can be seen as quite spiritual, pure and free from clutter.See the mininmalistic Japanese gardens that have just the odd placement of stones set to the backdrop of running water.See Mark Rothgo’s paintings for example or even the Russian Malevich who’s religious paintings comprised of just a black square on a white background. Cool,clean and intellectual but used as a setting for diddly-idle music,flowing beer and rustic types of charaters….well does it work?
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