Real Landmark for Dublin

well it hasn’t worked because i have no idea what the auckland skytower looks like. the spike is good bet though and there are cranes back on the site now, its so exciting.

Is’nt it! I can’t wait to see it up, it is now the tallest piece of sculpture in the world, if you consider it as being that.

Is the big crane for the spike here now?

Regarding the skytower – I hadn’t heard of it either. I found a photo here

http://www.aucklandnz.com/gallery/photos/towerabove.jpg

but I’m not impressed. I think there was a couple of entries in the oconnell competition that looked like that. I’m really glad the spike won.

Does anyone know how far away the spire will be visible from? I don’t remember seeing any from-a-distance pics.

I believe that from nighttime at least, you will be able to see the light at the top of it from anywhere in Dublin city.
I hope they will be able to change the light colour also. In the same way the lighting at the top of the Empire State building in NY changes (e.g. Green for Patricks day, red for the Chinese new year etc etc.)

In the EIS, it says it will not be visible from some areas within the city centre such as Merrion Square, (mainly due to the immediate height of buildings), but will be visible from the likes of Rathmines, although not that clearly as it’s colour will be pretty much the same as that of an overcast sky. At night though, it’s illuminated tip should be quite distintive. Originally it was planned to light it with something like 23 florescent tubes, but that has been shelved in favour of LEDs which last for approx 30 years. I agree, they should have the ability to change colour, as should the floodlights positioned on the 4 corner buildings that light the Spire itself.

so the auckland skytown is just a small cn tower and they put it up in 1997! what’s so landmark about that?

re spike, no big crane yet, they have one of those heavy lifting cranes that they use to put cranes up, if you see what i mean.

i live in tallaght and can see liberty hall + georges quay quite easily from my house … the lights on the canopy of liberty hall are not that bright but can still be seen at night all the way out here, so i guess given that the spike is to be over twice the height of liberty hall, its flood-light tip at least should be clearly visible (especially as it will be so far above any other light in the city) guess we’ll just have to wait and see though 🙂

Has anyone exact dates for when this will be errected?

The crane is on site since last night
Will post a daily picture later

This could be a great feat of Irish engineering…….never seen since the days when they built Ardnacrusha.

Ardnacrusha was german engineering was it not….. 😉

Doh……….did we ever do anything of note then……..Ok Newgrange but those people are a million miles away from us today…..the Vikings founded Dublin, the Normans built the fine Castles, the Brits built the cities……………..probably the Spire is being constructed and erected by a Brit firm too. Ah I suppose we always have Sam Stephenson to our credit and and all the wonderful things he did …..at Woodquay, Fitzwilliam St, etc…..

Well to be fair it was Thomas A. McLoughlin, an Irish engineer, who submitted proposals and convinced the government to dam the Shannon and build an electric power station at Ardnacrusha… the detailed design of which was carried out by Siemens-Schuckert

With regards to the spike having a British designer and contractor: Yes Ian Richie is British, but one of the contractors is most defently Irish. SIAC construction is a privatly family owned Irish construction group with it’s HQ in Dublin. And don’t be so pesimistic about Ireland’s architectural achivements, there are some very exciting projects currently happening here. We are gaining quite a reputation abroad with what is beign known as “New Irish Rationalisim”. We are far to hard on ourselfs in this country.

true

New Irish Rationalisim? I never heard that phrase before. Care to give a few examples or indeed attempt a definition? Anyone?

The Sky-tower idea is a bit overdone. They have them in Melbourne, Sydney, Toronto, Vancover, Seattle….etc It seems like a formulaic way of adding something distinctive to the city skyline.
Perhaps a way forward would be to revamp Liberty Hall – the top floor could incorporate the elements like restaurants and viewing platforms and new cladding and glazing could give the building a more dramatic look. Actually, I am amazed SIPTU have never considered it publically. Mind you they are not exactly the most farsighted of building owners…the foyer is enough to prove that.

Does anyone know where I can find drawings/drafts of the entries that failed to make it unlike the Spire?

Arent they on this site somewhere in the archives…use the search engine.
And try the Corpo

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1261&goto=nextoldest

some folk in a UK skyscraper forum discussing our tallest buildings.

They call Liberty Hall “cute” as it is only 13 stories high 😀
http://www.hoogbouw.nl/uksf/cgi-bin/printpage.cgi?forum=8&topic=3

Christ, that was a long bloody thread in that UK forum!! – i gave up reading when i realsied how long it went on – still, a lot of discussion about Dublin for a foreign architecture website – especially as one of the commentators said that it was UK only skyscrapper site?

yeah, but if you keep reading, it turns into a discussion about the quality of pints of Guinness

and then, and I’m the only person I know who actually likes Limerick City, there’s an argument about how much better Limerick is than Dublin.

There we go again…..another portrayal from the outside of us Irish as being small, insignificant, insular and thick……..aka leprecauns and all that…….probably worried in case we may challange the height of Canada House in Canary Wharf, Europes tallest building…..and well done to them for that.
But after all what other country on planet earth puts the word ‘great ‘before it’s name. However maybe stereotypes of nationalities are true, maybe we are thick, insular and insignificant….well given the recent debacles over building the most fundalmental and basic of things that a modern society require.

Does anyone know the height of this NZ Tower? Just trying to get a comparison with the spike.

Don’t forget that the observation deck on Liberty Hall is used for paper storage.

Makes you think…

fjp

Yes ftp but NZ didnt have a terrorist problem until recently.

Originally posted by fjp
Don’t forget that the observation deck on Liberty Hall is used for paper storage.

Makes you think…

fjp

makes me think that is a very bad place for storing paper in. it will get moist and expand and contract something horrific. But thats just the bookbinder in me talking.

RE: New Zeland,
They use the 13-storey Novotel Hotel in Auckland for ‘rap jumping’ – i.e. you start running off the top of the building and then keep running until a harness grabs you, hmmm… wonder if Siptu would cover that in their facilities insurance.

http://www.bongoguy.com/html/UrbanRapJumping.html

Just to clarify – the papers are actually indoors, behind glass, so I presume moisture is minimised. Terrorism?? Me no quite understand, but I was told the Liberty Ob deck was closed due to suicides/potential suicides (ie, self terrorism). No third party terrorist reasons were mentioned.

fjp

Well i think in the ’70’s a bomb shattered much of the glass cladding and thereafter the observation deck was closed… Those responsible for the bombing at Liberty Hall (and also at Sackville Place i think ?!?) was the cause of some debate, with both the IRA and British Intelligence suspected…

[quote
I believe Dublin and Ireland need a structure of this stature, to provide us with the same kind of identity. I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t as Auckland is also a city of circa 1 million and New Zealand has a population similar to Ireland’s. The only difference is that our economy is in a much stronger position. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have long held a similar view. Most of our modern public statuary and architecture is a disgrace (the latter has improved in the boom period), and the lack of a tourist facility of this kind is a major gap in the Eblanascape. Ideally such a structure should greet the arriving visitor or be siuated on the central plain. One problem is to find a noble value such as Liberty to be embodied by the structure– the present Spike is a pathetic abstraction from that point of view.
Idealism aside, a colossal stylised harp-shaped tower that would fulfiull the same tourist function as the Eiffel tower is one possibility. I believe Dublin would benefit from an overhead transport route from North to South of the centre, and this structure could also provide that– rather like a switchback, but not ugly. There would also be a port for future air vehicles.
alphasun

Keep taking the pills…

Originally posted by alphasun
Idealism aside, a colossal stylised harp-shaped tower that would fulfiull the same tourist function as the Eiffel tower is one possibility[/B]

lol! begorrah.

Originally posted by Rory W
Keep taking the pills…

I need them to stand Dublin’s architecture (with some honourable exceptions, mainly recent).
I thought the French example (much derided when it was first put up) might be received favourably, since a French building is featured on this site. Is that because our more venerable buildings have British associations?
What would be a suitable theme for a large-scale monument in your view?
alphasun

I think when the Spire is erected, we’ll all realise just how elegant a design it is, simple and understated. The Skytower in Auckland is not really the example we necessarily want to be following – it’s clunky and there are as already pointed out, several similar things, around the world. I doubt visitors will ever come specificially to see the Spike but I think it will become one of Dublin’s defining landmarks. Re: viewing towers – there are two good ones already in the city, one of which doesn’t even attract that many visitors.
I think a giant novelty harp would be as interesting as a 120-metre high pint of Guiness or another enormous crucifix. No doubt some people would like it but is it really the emblem we want of Dublin.

I agree and think the spire will be a success due to its originality and elegance… it has the potential to be a defining feature unlike the two new bridges for example which, although good in their own way, are in no way significant on a european/world scale…

But a “120-metre high pint of Guinness”, now there’s an idea !! And we could have bungy jumps where u would pay more to go deeper into it, giving u more time to gulp as much as possible… the corpo would make a fortune from all the kiwis coming over !! 😀

Originally posted by kefu
I doubt visitors will ever come specificially to see the Spike but I think it will become one of Dublin’s defining landmarks

This is my point– there is nothing to do with the spike except look at it. An attraction one could admire on the artistic level but also use as a vantage point and site for various facilities would have tremendous economic potential for a city that badly needs tourist attractions, preferably on the wonder of the world level, apart from the aesthetic needs of the population.
True, the needle is elegant in a simplistic ‘pure’ way, and may look well at night when lit up, but it reminds me of the Skylon at the Festival of Britain in the fifties, re-erected recently– it has no function other than to give an impression of modernity. Very exciting visually in those early days of ‘space’. The spike could recall an ICBM– perhaps as a secular echo of a (painful-looking) spire it has a certain appropriateness. But I don’t think it will increase revenue or prestige to the extent that could have been achieved with more imagination.
Another suggestion– have a mag-lev train running in in a straight line from the airport to a city centre terminal that would also serve tourist airships for a slow luxurious scenic trip round the country. Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.
alphasun

Originally posted by alphasun

Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.
alphasun

excuse me for being a pedant

I had my doubts about Brunel’s involvement in the Dublin one so i sourced this from a site on athmospheric railways

“I note in passing that while I (as a fan of his) might like Isambard
Kingdom Brunel to have invented the atmospheric system used on the
South Devon, it is wrong to say that he did so, as is sometimes done.
He did choose it for the line and actively promoted it (well, “actively”
is redundant with Brunel). It was actually developed by Samuel Clegg
and Joseph and Jacob Samuda.”

Originally posted by LOB

excuse me for being a pedant

I had my doubts about Brunel’s involvement in the Dublin one so i sourced this from a site on athmospheric railways …
[Brunel] did choose it for the line and actively promoted it (well, “actively”
is redundant with Brunel). It was actually developed by Samuel Clegg
and Joseph and Jacob Samuda.”

No problem, you are right, though i didn’t say he invented it–I had also researched this some time ago because the former route (now the southern DART line) runs close to my home. You point out a key factor– Brunel’s dynamism and willingness to promote new technology. Of course, this depended on vast resources, and I would like to echo editor of the S. Bus. Post Damon Kiberd’s recent appeal for more foreign private capital to be invited into Irish public projects (NDP)– perhaps then we may get a more Brunelesque approach.
Have we any Dargans?
By the way, I am emphatically against big, unsound projects for their own sake– I am talking about stuff that will bear comparison with Brunel’s work. The port tunnel seems worthwhile and brings us up to the level of Cork in this area– this is the way to go.
alphasun

have a mag-lev train running in a straight line from the airport to a city centre terminal that would also serve tourist airships for a slow luxurious scenic trip round the country. Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.

Ok I don’t want to be the typically pessimistic here but the term “ah for f#ck sake” quickly comes to mind…

On a practical note how the hell is one to get a “straight line”, presumably above ground, from Swords to the city centre ?!? And remember we are a small country who can’t even get there act together and build a metro, not the mind the years it took to get the port tunnel underway (which btw cannot be compared to the pretty small Lee tunnel). The only place i have heard where a “mag-lev” train is being used is in the Ruhr Valley in Germany – and to think that we can make one viable here is just not worth taking about. An ordinary damn train/metro/tram service would do fine, and the chances of us seeing one in the next 10years look pretty damn slim now without bringing magnetic levitation into it !!!

As for all this talk of Brunel, well as you can gather from the tag i am a fan, but the more you read about this guy the more you see that he was not the ‘total hero’ that LTC Rolt made him out to be. Of course he achieved fantastic things, but he was driven, to a large extent, by his ego. And in this day, where ‘consultation’ is the buzzword, there is no place for a “Brunelesque” approach.

As i near the end of my rant 🙂 I would like to point out the fact that ‘Public Private Partnerships” are of course bringing in foreign capital, however we Irish have to get used to the consequence of tolls… something which may take some time…

I think that before we run we should learn to walk – the existing train lines (see rants passim) need new rolling stock etc (I’m heading down to connolly to get a train that was built in the 1950s) so before we get Mag Trains, some ordinary ones would do nicely!!

Originally posted by Rory W
I think that before we run we should learn to walk – …..before we get Mag Trains, some ordinary ones would do nicely!!

I take your point and we seem to be stuck with that line of action anyway, but is it is sensible as it looks? In some technologies, the old just holds up the new– for example, in one of the African countries they are implementing the latest wireless broadband networks instead of updating old cable networks like the ones we have.
From a transport point of view, I expect LUAS may not be too bad– trams are tried and tested — but my preference would be to get a full system of bus lanes established, then install an automatic vehicle network. To go from say Dublin St Green to Dunlaoghaire, instead of presenting yourself at the DART station you would hop on a taxi-sized automatic buslane vehicle running on a continuous route of about a mile, spaced at say 100m intervals from similar vehicles. Availability for your destination would be indicated on the front. This would take you and anyone else on the loop to the nearest DART terminal, (now just a ramp installation) get on to it and go to a similar loop in Dunlaoighaire. Vehicles would be distributed by a computer program. Road works would be less than for LUAS.
This kind of Disney(real)world project would make Dublin a tourist attraction as well as improving transport. I mention Disneyworld because that’s where multitudes flock from these islands in order to travel on futuristic railways and see such things as Epcot. Contrast this with the poor souls on those open-top buses –at least we have Viking Splash tours.

I wonder what the cost of that project was to Ireland in those prosperous 1930s?

The project cost £5.5m, which was about 20% of the budget in 1925. This would be the equivalent of starting an €8-10b project now and completing it in three years. Metro, anyone?

Read about it here:

http://www.ieee.org/organizations/history_center/milestones_photos/shannon_scheme.html

Interesting– I stand corrected on the date. Since then the ESB has created the impressive Turlough Hill project, but unfortunately its spectacular aspects are largely invisible.
alphasun

I don’t know how many of you actually rely on public transport, but talk of mag-lev trains and automatic buses for Dublin is like saying we should be shipping caviar and quail’s eggs to the starving in Ethiopia.
We have the worst public transport in the developed world.
I would be delighted if anyone could say I’m wrong on this as it may make my dismal, rainswept daily wait for my late, packed, smoke-filled bus a bit more fun if I can imagine some Pole or Dutchman is having it a bit worse.
I don’t want a magic flying train to get me to work, I just want my feckin bus to come on feckin time, preferably at regular, short intervals, with seats, and no-one sneaking a fag down the back with the windows all shut, no ridiculous detours, a driver with a grasp of basic manners, and maybe the ability to operate the side door switch.
The only way public transport in this country can work is by shutting down CIE and starting from scratch. We don’t need sci-fi solutions, we need a new crowd of people to figure out how to make what we have work, and then let’s see what to do next.

CIE isn’t the main problem its union intransegence who go on strike at the drop of a hat, wont operate the centre doors (as part of an ongoing dispute) and as for smokers upstairs that’s a problem due to the anti-social element that seem sto be taking hold in Ireland at the moment who intimidate everyone else and get their own way.

Yes there are problems with CIE, but they are not the main cause

Here here AndrewP!

we don’t have the worst public transport in the developed world, its not great, but not the worst. you are falling pray of the myth of irish exceptionalism, the belief that if we aren’t the best then we must be the worst.

mmmm yes we’re not the ‘worst’ but for a capital city in europe it is a tad embarrassing when you have to tell visitors that there is no rail link to the airport, that you have no idea how long it will take them to get to the airport depending on traffic, that there is no metro/tram system, that everything involves car/bus gridlock etc etc

but no point complaining… LUAS is a start… and when one sees the cost of Ardnacrusha back then, one really has to think that it is worth borrowing now and build the damn metro NOW… the city will benifit from it for over 100 years so its worth going out on a limb and increasing the national debt…

maybe we need a brave figure to put their neck on the line and say ‘bollix to all the bregrudgers, we are going to build the thing now… tomorrows generation will benifit from it so they can help pay for it too…’

I wasn’t ranting for the sake of it, I genuinely haven’t been to a major city with worse public transport.
I really would like to know.
Where is it?

I just want my feckin bus to come on feckin time, preferably at regular, short intervals, with seats, and no-one sneaking a fag down the back with the windows all shut, no ridiculous detours, a driver with a grasp of basic manners, and maybe the ability to operate the side door switch.
The only way public transport in this country can work is by shutting down CIE and starting from scratch. We don’t need sci-fi solutions, we need a new crowd of people to figure out how to make what we have work, and then let’s see what to do next. [/B]

Face it, these proposals are just as much science fiction as mine.
Following your last suggestion, I have often wondered if we could not invite the Swiss, Swedes and danes to come in and run us for a few decades….
alphasun

there is just this one small problem with the Swiss, Swedes, and Danes – they have no sense of humor…might be why everything in their countries works since they don’t know how to make fun of it

Does that mean they can’t come up with hilarious names like the Chime in the Slime or the Floozie in the Jacuzzi?
God forbid we should lose our marvellous sense of humour in favour of something useful?

Am I the only one who doesn’t find the “Stilletto in the Ghetto” for the spire remotely funny?

it’s funny….but sort of takes away the dignity.
dignity would be nice???

there is just this one small problem with the Swiss, Swedes, and Danes – they have no sense of humor…might be why everything in their countries works since they don’t know how to make fun of it

I kindof resent this fact… ok yes most Swedes don’t have much of a sense of humour… but just cause we do is no excuse… “argh ya our infrastructure is crap but we get locked yyeehh and we’ve got guinness yyeehh and we have the craic yyeehh”

The people in charge, ie architects, engineers, planners etc etc are serious people and take their jobs seriously… just because we have a sense of humour as a race of people gives us no excuse for having a shit transport system…

Granted we were a poor country for a long time, a fact that is probably forgotten about now, but still we have to get our act together…

Kinda like the ‘stiffy near the liffey’… not much dignity but what the hell !!

Goes easy on the stereotypes folks. they may appear to us to have no sense of humour, ie language barrier and all that……but I’m sure when they are among their own ilk they are a bundle of laughs. It’s the Brits who and have perpetrated such dogmas about Johnny Foreigner via the Sun newspaper etc.

I agree – I know plenty of Danes and Swedes and they have a great sense of humour….just a little different from ours. More importantly they also know how to order their society properly! Their transport works! Their roads are not congested with boy racers! They dont live in very expensive, crap cardboard houses! And they dont foul their country with litter and waste!

Re the stereotypes: well have been living in Sweden for two years now… have lots of friends who have a great sense of humour, but even they admit that as a country it is pretty dry… anyway that’s not the point… point being that we as a nation have to get our act together…

Originally posted by StephenC
I agree – I know plenty of Danes and Swedes and they have a great sense of humour….just a little different from ours. More importantly they also know how to order their society properly! Their transport works! Their roads are not congested with boy racers! They dont live in very expensive, crap cardboard houses! And they dont foul their country with litter and waste!

I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!

Originally posted by GregF
Goes easy on the stereotypes folks. they may appear to us to have no sense of humour, ie language barrier and all that……but I’m sure when they are among their own ilk they are a bundle of laughs. It’s the Brits who and have perpetrated such dogmas about Johnny Foreigner via the Sun newspaper etc.

I’m not getting at you, in fact I think I agree with you, but I love the irony – ask people to be nice to foreigners and not act like the dirty brits.

Very Oirish as Kelvin McKenzie might say…

Sky Tower Auckland