Real Landmark for Dublin
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I agree and think the spire will be a success due to its originality and elegance… it has the potential to be a defining feature unlike the two new bridges for example which, although good in their own way, are in no way significant on a european/world scale…
But a “120-metre high pint of Guinness”, now there’s an idea !! And we could have bungy jumps where u would pay more to go deeper into it, giving u more time to gulp as much as possible… the corpo would make a fortune from all the kiwis coming over !! 😀
Originally posted by kefu
I doubt visitors will ever come specificially to see the Spike but I think it will become one of Dublin’s defining landmarksThis is my point– there is nothing to do with the spike except look at it. An attraction one could admire on the artistic level but also use as a vantage point and site for various facilities would have tremendous economic potential for a city that badly needs tourist attractions, preferably on the wonder of the world level, apart from the aesthetic needs of the population.
True, the needle is elegant in a simplistic ‘pure’ way, and may look well at night when lit up, but it reminds me of the Skylon at the Festival of Britain in the fifties, re-erected recently– it has no function other than to give an impression of modernity. Very exciting visually in those early days of ‘space’. The spike could recall an ICBM– perhaps as a secular echo of a (painful-looking) spire it has a certain appropriateness. But I don’t think it will increase revenue or prestige to the extent that could have been achieved with more imagination.
Another suggestion– have a mag-lev train running in in a straight line from the airport to a city centre terminal that would also serve tourist airships for a slow luxurious scenic trip round the country. Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.
alphasunOriginally posted by alphasun
Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.
alphasunexcuse me for being a pedant
I had my doubts about Brunel’s involvement in the Dublin one so i sourced this from a site on athmospheric railways
“I note in passing that while I (as a fan of his) might like Isambard
Kingdom Brunel to have invented the atmospheric system used on the
South Devon, it is wrong to say that he did so, as is sometimes done.
He did choose it for the line and actively promoted it (well, “actively”
is redundant with Brunel). It was actually developed by Samuel Clegg
and Joseph and Jacob Samuda.”Originally posted by LOB
excuse me for being a pedant
I had my doubts about Brunel’s involvement in the Dublin one so i sourced this from a site on athmospheric railways …
[Brunel] did choose it for the line and actively promoted it (well, “actively”
is redundant with Brunel). It was actually developed by Samuel Clegg
and Joseph and Jacob Samuda.”No problem, you are right, though i didn’t say he invented it–I had also researched this some time ago because the former route (now the southern DART line) runs close to my home. You point out a key factor– Brunel’s dynamism and willingness to promote new technology. Of course, this depended on vast resources, and I would like to echo editor of the S. Bus. Post Damon Kiberd’s recent appeal for more foreign private capital to be invited into Irish public projects (NDP)– perhaps then we may get a more Brunelesque approach.
Have we any Dargans?
By the way, I am emphatically against big, unsound projects for their own sake– I am talking about stuff that will bear comparison with Brunel’s work. The port tunnel seems worthwhile and brings us up to the level of Cork in this area– this is the way to go.
alphasunhave a mag-lev train running in a straight line from the airport to a city centre terminal that would also serve tourist airships for a slow luxurious scenic trip round the country. Or rebuild Brunel’s pneumatic railway.
Ok I don’t want to be the typically pessimistic here but the term “ah for f#ck sake” quickly comes to mind…
On a practical note how the hell is one to get a “straight line”, presumably above ground, from Swords to the city centre ?!? And remember we are a small country who can’t even get there act together and build a metro, not the mind the years it took to get the port tunnel underway (which btw cannot be compared to the pretty small Lee tunnel). The only place i have heard where a “mag-lev” train is being used is in the Ruhr Valley in Germany – and to think that we can make one viable here is just not worth taking about. An ordinary damn train/metro/tram service would do fine, and the chances of us seeing one in the next 10years look pretty damn slim now without bringing magnetic levitation into it !!!
As for all this talk of Brunel, well as you can gather from the tag i am a fan, but the more you read about this guy the more you see that he was not the ‘total hero’ that LTC Rolt made him out to be. Of course he achieved fantastic things, but he was driven, to a large extent, by his ego. And in this day, where ‘consultation’ is the buzzword, there is no place for a “Brunelesque” approach.
As i near the end of my rant 🙂 I would like to point out the fact that ‘Public Private Partnerships” are of course bringing in foreign capital, however we Irish have to get used to the consequence of tolls… something which may take some time…
Quote:: For fck’s sake etc [UNQUOTE]
We need something that makes the visitor use a similar phrase!
I had in mind an elevated system– perhaps the terrain is too hilly. To be honest, an intercity route or an indirect wide curve along the coast might be more appropriate, since the speeds involved are around 250 kph. Here’s a link to the proposed project in China:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200101/21/eng20010121_61101.html
With the boom over, such a project would indeed seem to be beyond our reach, although I wonder how a cost benefit analysis of this versus a corresponding moterway would work out.
However, I stick to my main point, that Dublin needs something thrilling, interesting and impressive to attract the world to Ireland and confirm our status as a small but go-ahead, modern country. These extremely fast, silent trains could whisk visitors to our scenic areas in minutes straight from the airport– would that increase tourism and business interest?– I suspect it would.
Perhaps it is time to invite the Germans in again as at Ardnacrusha. I wonder what the cost of that project was to Ireland in those prosperous 1930s?
alphasunI think that before we run we should learn to walk – the existing train lines (see rants passim) need new rolling stock etc (I’m heading down to connolly to get a train that was built in the 1950s) so before we get Mag Trains, some ordinary ones would do nicely!!
Originally posted by Rory W
I think that before we run we should learn to walk – …..before we get Mag Trains, some ordinary ones would do nicely!!I take your point and we seem to be stuck with that line of action anyway, but is it is sensible as it looks? In some technologies, the old just holds up the new– for example, in one of the African countries they are implementing the latest wireless broadband networks instead of updating old cable networks like the ones we have.
From a transport point of view, I expect LUAS may not be too bad– trams are tried and tested — but my preference would be to get a full system of bus lanes established, then install an automatic vehicle network. To go from say Dublin St Green to Dunlaoghaire, instead of presenting yourself at the DART station you would hop on a taxi-sized automatic buslane vehicle running on a continuous route of about a mile, spaced at say 100m intervals from similar vehicles. Availability for your destination would be indicated on the front. This would take you and anyone else on the loop to the nearest DART terminal, (now just a ramp installation) get on to it and go to a similar loop in Dunlaoighaire. Vehicles would be distributed by a computer program. Road works would be less than for LUAS.
This kind of Disney(real)world project would make Dublin a tourist attraction as well as improving transport. I mention Disneyworld because that’s where multitudes flock from these islands in order to travel on futuristic railways and see such things as Epcot. Contrast this with the poor souls on those open-top buses –at least we have Viking Splash tours.I wonder what the cost of that project was to Ireland in those prosperous 1930s?
The project cost £5.5m, which was about 20% of the budget in 1925. This would be the equivalent of starting an €8-10b project now and completing it in three years. Metro, anyone?
Read about it here:
http://www.ieee.org/organizations/history_center/milestones_photos/shannon_scheme.html
Interesting– I stand corrected on the date. Since then the ESB has created the impressive Turlough Hill project, but unfortunately its spectacular aspects are largely invisible.
alphasunI don’t know how many of you actually rely on public transport, but talk of mag-lev trains and automatic buses for Dublin is like saying we should be shipping caviar and quail’s eggs to the starving in Ethiopia.
We have the worst public transport in the developed world.
I would be delighted if anyone could say I’m wrong on this as it may make my dismal, rainswept daily wait for my late, packed, smoke-filled bus a bit more fun if I can imagine some Pole or Dutchman is having it a bit worse.
I don’t want a magic flying train to get me to work, I just want my feckin bus to come on feckin time, preferably at regular, short intervals, with seats, and no-one sneaking a fag down the back with the windows all shut, no ridiculous detours, a driver with a grasp of basic manners, and maybe the ability to operate the side door switch.
The only way public transport in this country can work is by shutting down CIE and starting from scratch. We don’t need sci-fi solutions, we need a new crowd of people to figure out how to make what we have work, and then let’s see what to do next.CIE isn’t the main problem its union intransegence who go on strike at the drop of a hat, wont operate the centre doors (as part of an ongoing dispute) and as for smokers upstairs that’s a problem due to the anti-social element that seem sto be taking hold in Ireland at the moment who intimidate everyone else and get their own way.
Yes there are problems with CIE, but they are not the main cause
we don’t have the worst public transport in the developed world, its not great, but not the worst. you are falling pray of the myth of irish exceptionalism, the belief that if we aren’t the best then we must be the worst.
mmmm yes we’re not the ‘worst’ but for a capital city in europe it is a tad embarrassing when you have to tell visitors that there is no rail link to the airport, that you have no idea how long it will take them to get to the airport depending on traffic, that there is no metro/tram system, that everything involves car/bus gridlock etc etc
but no point complaining… LUAS is a start… and when one sees the cost of Ardnacrusha back then, one really has to think that it is worth borrowing now and build the damn metro NOW… the city will benifit from it for over 100 years so its worth going out on a limb and increasing the national debt…
maybe we need a brave figure to put their neck on the line and say ‘bollix to all the bregrudgers, we are going to build the thing now… tomorrows generation will benifit from it so they can help pay for it too…’
I wasn’t ranting for the sake of it, I genuinely haven’t been to a major city with worse public transport.
I really would like to know.
Where is it?I just want my feckin bus to come on feckin time, preferably at regular, short intervals, with seats, and no-one sneaking a fag down the back with the windows all shut, no ridiculous detours, a driver with a grasp of basic manners, and maybe the ability to operate the side door switch.
The only way public transport in this country can work is by shutting down CIE and starting from scratch. We don’t need sci-fi solutions, we need a new crowd of people to figure out how to make what we have work, and then let’s see what to do next. [/B]Face it, these proposals are just as much science fiction as mine.
Following your last suggestion, I have often wondered if we could not invite the Swiss, Swedes and danes to come in and run us for a few decades….
alphasunthere is just this one small problem with the Swiss, Swedes, and Danes – they have no sense of humor…might be why everything in their countries works since they don’t know how to make fun of it
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